 theCUBE's live coverage is made possible by funding from Dell Technologies, creating technologies that drive human progress. Welcome back to DeFita in Barcelona, Dave Vellante with Dave Nicholson. Lisa Martin's been here all week. John Furrier is in our Palo Alto studio banging out all the news. Don't forget to check out siliconangle.com, thecube.net. This is Dave for our last segment, winding down MWC 23. Super excited to be here. Wayne Duso, friend of theCUBE, VP of engineering from products that AWS is here with Iad Tarazi, who's the CEO of Federated Wireless. Gents, welcome. Good to be here. I'm so stoked, Wayne, that we connected before the show, we texted. I'm like, you're going to be there, I'm going to be there. You've got to come on theCUBE, so thank you so much for making time and thank you for bringing a customer partner Federated Wireless. Everybody knows AWS. Tell us about Federated Wireless. We're a software and services company out of Arlington, Virginia, right outside of Washington DC, and we're really focused on this new technology called shared spectrum and private wireless for 5G. Think of it as enterprises consuming 5G, the way they used to consume Wi-Fi. Is that unrestricted spectrum? It is managed, organized, interference free, all through cloud platforms. That's how we got to know AWS. We went and got maybe about 300 products from AWS to make it work. Quite sophisticated, highly available, and pristine spectrum worth billions of dollars, but available for people like you and I that want to build enterprises that want to make things work. Also carriers, cable companies, everybody else that needs it. It's really a new revolution. And that's how you got introduced to AWS. Was that through public sector or just the coincidence that you're in DC? No, well, yes. The center of gravity in the world for spectrum is literally Arlington. You have the DoD spectrum people. You have spectrum people from National Science Foundation, DARPA, and then you have commercial sector, and you have the FCC just an Uber right away. So we went and found the scientists that are doing all this work, four or five of them, Virginia Tech has an office there too for spectrum research for the Navy. Come together, let's have a party and make a new model. So I have super excited to have you on theCUBE. I sat through the keynotes on Monday. I saw Satya Nadella was in there, Thomas Curian, there was no AWS, I'm like, where's AWS? AWS is everywhere. I mean, you guys are all over the show. They're like, hey, where's the number one clouds? You guys have made a bunch of announcements at the show. Everybody's talking about the cloud. What's going on for you guys? So we are everywhere. And we've been coming to this show for years. This is really a year that we can demonstrate that what we've been doing for the IT enterprise, IT people for 17 years, we're now bringing forward telcos. For years, we've been, 17 years to be exact, we've been bringing the cloud value proposition, whether it's cost efficiencies or innovation or scale, reliability, security, and so on, to these enterprise IT folks. Now we're doing the same thing for telcos. And so whether they want to build in region, in a local zone, in metro area, on-prem with an outpost, at the edge with Snow Family, or with our IoT devices, and no matter where they want to start. They start in the cloud and they want to move to the edge, or they start in the edge and they want to bring the cloud value proposition. Like we're demonstrating all of that is happening this week. And very much so, we're also demonstrating that we're bringing the same type of ecosystem that we've built for enterprise IT. We're bringing that type of ecosystem to the telco companies with CSPs, with the ISV vendors, we've seen plenty of announcements this week, so on and so forth. So what's different? Is it the names are different? Is it really that simple that you're just basically taking the cloud model into telco and saying, hey, why do all this undifferentiated heavy lifting when we can do it for you? Don't worry about all the, is it really that simple and that straightforward? Well, simple is probably not what I'd say, but we can make it straightforward. Conceptually. Conceptually, yes. Conceptually it is the same. Because if you think about, especially we'll just take 5G for a moment. The 5G folks, if you look at the architecture of 5G, it was designed to run on a cloud architecture. It was designed to be a set of services that you could partition and run in different places, whether it's in the region or at the edge. So in many ways, it is sort of that simple. And let me give you an example. Two things. The first one is we announced integrated private wireless on AWS, which allows enterprise customers to come to a portal and look at the industry solutions. They're not worried about their network. They're worried about solving a problem. And they can come to that portal, they can find a solution, they can find a service provider that will help them with that solution. And what they end up with is a fully validated offering that AWS Telco SAs have actually put through its paces to make sure this is a real thing. And whether they get it from a Telco, and quite frankly in that space, it's SIs such as federated that actually help our customers deploy those in private environments. So that's an example. And then added to that, we had a second announcement, which was AWS Telco Network Builder, which allows Telcos to plan, deploy, and operate at scale Telco network capabilities on the cloud. Think about it this way. As a managed service. As a managed service. So think about it this way. And the same way that Enterprise IT has been deploying infrastructure as code for years, Telco Network Builder allows the Telco folks to deploy Telco networks and their capabilities as code. So it's not simple, but it is pretty straightforward. We're making it more straightforward as we go. Jump in Dave, by the way, he can geek out if you want. Yeah, no, no, no, that's good. That's good, that's good. But actually I'm going to ask an AWS question, but I'm going to ask Yod the AWS question. So when I hear the word cloud from Wayne, cloud AWS, typically in people's minds, that denotes off-premises out there, AWS data center in the telecom space. Yes, of course, in the private 5G space, we're talking about a little bit of a different dynamic than in the public 5G space in terms of the physical infrastructure. But regardless, at the edge, there are things that need to be physically at the edge. Do you feel that AWS is sufficiently, have they removed the H word, hybrid, from the list of bad words you're not allowed to say? Because there was a point in time where AWS felt that they're going to say multi-cloud today. No, no, no, no, but there was a period of time where rightfully so AWS felt that the growth trajectory would be supported solely by net new things off-premises. Now though, in this space, it seems like that hybrid model is critical. Do you see AWS being open to the hybrid nature of things? Yeah, they're absolutely, I mean, just to explain from where a services company and a solutions company, so we put together solutions at the edge, a smart campus, smart agriculture, a deployment, one of our biggest deployment is a million square feet warehouse automation project with the Marine Corps. That's bigger than the theater. Oh yeah, it's bigger, definitely bigger than a small section of here. It's actually three massive warehouses. So yes, that is the edge. What the cloud is about is that massive amount of efficiency has happened by concentrating applications in data centers. And that is programmability, that is APIs, that is solutions, that is applications that can run on it where people know how to do it. And so all that efficiency now is being put in a box called the edge. What AWS is doing for us is bringing all the business and technical solutions they had into the edge. Some of the data may send back and forth, but that's actually a smaller piece of the value for us. By being able to bring an AWS package at the edge, we're bringing IoT applications, we're bringing high-speed cameras, we're able to integrate with the 5G public network, we're able to bring in identity and devices, we're able to bring in solutions for students, embedded laptops, all of these things that you can do much, much faster and cheaper if you're able to tap in the 4,000, 5,000 partners and all the applications and all the development and all the models that AWS team did by being able to bring that efficiency to the edge while reinventing it. And then along with that, there are partners that helped you integration, there are development done to make it hardened, to make the data more secure, more isolated. All of these things will contribute to an edge that surely is a carbon copy of the data center. So Wayne, it's AWS regardless of where the compute, networking and storage physically live. It's AWS. Do you think that the term cloud will sort of drift away from usage because look, it's all IT. In this case, it's AWS and federated IT working together. What's your, it's sort of an obscure question about cloud because cloud is so integrated. You got this thing about cloud. It's just IT. I got this thing about cloud. You and Larry Ellison. Because it's not, yeah, well, actually, you know. A lot of IT that's not cloud, I'm going to say that, okay. A lot of IT that isn't cloud. But I would say cloud is an IT tool and you see AWS obviously with the snow fill in the blank line of products and outpost type stuff. Fair to say that you're, doesn't matter where it is. It could be AWS if it's on the edge, right? Well, you know, everybody wants to define the cloud as what it may have been when it started. But if you look at what it was when it started and what it is today, it is different. But the ability to bring the experience, the AWS experience, the services, the operational experience and all the things that, yeah, I had been talking about, from the region all the way to the IoT device, if you would, that entire continuum. And it doesn't matter where you start. Like if you start in a region and you need to bring your value to other places because your customers are asking you to do so, we're enabling that experience where you need to bring it. If you started at the edge but you want to build cloud value, you know, whether it's again, cost efficiency, scalability, AI, ML or analytics into those capabilities, you can start at the edge with the same APIs, with the same service, the same capabilities, and you can build that value in right from the get go. You don't build this bifurcation or many separations and try to figure out how do I glue them together? There is no gluing together. So if you think of cloud as being elastic, scalable, flexible, where you can drive innovation, it's the same exact model on the continuum. And you can start at either end. It's up to you as a customer. And I think the key to me is the ecosystem. I mean, if you can do for this industry what you've done for the technology, enterprise technology business from an ecosystem standpoint, you know, everybody talks about flywheel, but that gives you the massive flywheel. I don't know what the ratio is, but it used to be for every dollar spent on a VMware license, $15 is spent in the ecosystem. I've never heard similar ratios in the AWS ecosystem, but I go to reinvent and I'm like, what is some dollars being spent? That's a massive ecosystem. And then the other thing I'll add is Jose Maria Alvarez who's the chairman of Telefonica said, there's three pillars of the future ready telco, low latency, programmable networks. And he said cloud and edge. So the recognizing cloud and edge, you know, low latency means you got to put the computer and the data, the programmable infrastructure was invented by Amazon. So what's the strategy around the telco edge for you? So, you know, at the end, so these are, those are all great points. And in fact, the programmability of the network was a big theme in the show. It was a huge theme. And if you think about the cloud, what is the cloud? It's a set of APIs against a set of resources that you use in whatever way is appropriate for what you're trying to accomplish. The network, the telco network becomes a resource and it can be described as a resource. I talked about, you know, network as in code, right? It's the same infrastructure in code. It's telco infrastructure as code. And that code, that infrastructure is programmable. So this is really, really important in how you build the ecosystem around that is no different than how we built the ecosystem around traditional IT abstractions. In fact, we feel that really the ecosystem is the killer app for 5G. You know, the killer app for 4G data of sorts, right? We started using data beyond simple SMS messages. So what's the killer app for 5G? It's building this ecosystem, which includes the CSPs, the ISVs, all of the partners that we bring to the table that can drive greater value. It's not just about cost efficiency. You know, you can't save your way to success, right? At some point, you need to generate greater value for your customers, which gives you better business outcomes because you can monetize them, right? The ecosystem is going to allow everybody to monetize 5G. 5G's like the dot connector of all that. And then developers come in on top and create new capabilities. And how different is that than, you know, the original smartphones? Yeah, yeah, you're right. So what do you guys think of ChatGPT? You're starting to Amazon, Amazon turned the data center into an API. It's like, we're visioning this world and I want to ask the technologists like where it's turning resources into human language interfaces. You know, when you see that, you play with ChatGPT at all. I know you guys got your own. I won't speak directly to ChatGPT, right? I don't go there. But if you think about it, yeah, generavi is important and we are, and we have been for years in this space. Now, you've been talking to AWS for a long time. We often don't talk about things we don't have yet. We don't talk about things that we haven't brought to market yet. And so, you know, you'll often hear us talk about something, you know, a year from now where others may have been talking about it three years earlier, right? We will be talking about this space when we feel it's appropriate for our customers and our partners. You have talked about it a little bit, Adam Slipsky, in an interview with myself and John Furrier in October said, you watch, you know, large language models are going to be enormous and I know you guys have some stuff working on there. I'll say it's exciting. Yeah, I mean. Well, proof point is Siri is an idiot compared to Alexa. So I trust, I trust, I trust one entity to come up with something smart. I have conversations with Alexa and Siri and I won't judge, you know. You don't need, you could be objective on that one. I definitely prefer. Are the problems you guys solving in this space, you know, what's unique about them? What are they? Can we sort of take some examples here? Sure. The main theme is that the enterprise is taking control. They want to have their own networks. They want to focus on specific applications and they want to build them with a skeleton proof. The one IT person in a warehouse want to be able to do it all. So what's unique about them is that they're now are a lot of automation on robotics, especially in warehousing environment agriculture. There simply aren't enough people in these industries and that required precision. And so you need all that integration to make it work. People also want to build these networks as they want to control it. They want to figure out how do we actually pick this team and migrate it. Maybe just do the front of the house first. Maybe it's a security team that monitored the building. Maybe later on upgrade things that used to open doors and close doors and collect maintenance data. So that ability to pick what you want to do from a new processor is really important. And then you're also seeing a lot of public, private network interconnection. That's probably the undercurrent of this show that having been talked about. When people say private networks, they're also talking about something called neutral host which means I'm going to build my own network but I want it to work. My Verizon hands in need to work. There's been so much progress. It's not done yet. So much progress about this bring my own network concept and then make sure that I'm now interoperating with the public network but it's my domain. I can create air gaps. I can create whatever security and policy around it. That is probably the power of 5G. Now take all of these tiny networks, big networks, put them all in one ecosystem, call it the Amazon marketplace, call it the Amazon ecosystem. That's 5G. It's going to be a tremendous future. What does the future look like? We just determined we're going to be orchestrating the network through human language. But seriously, what's your vision for the future here? Both connectivity and cloud are on a continuum. They've been on a continuum of forever. They're going to continue to be on a continuum. That being said, those continuums are coming together. They're coming together to bring greater value to a greater set of customers and frankly, all of us. So the future is now. This conference is the future and if you look at what's going on, it's about the acceleration of the future. What we announced this week is really the acceleration of listening to customers for the last handful of years. And we're going to continue to do that. We're going to continue to bring greater value in the form of solutions. And that's what I want to pick up on from the prior question. It's not about the network. It's not about the cloud. It's about the solutions that we can provide the customers where they are. And if they're on their mobile phone or they're in their factory floor, they're looking to accelerate their business. They're looking to accelerate their value. They're looking to create greater safety for their employees. That's what we can do with these technologies. So in fact, when we came out with our announcement for integrated private wireless, it really was about industry solutions. It really isn't about the cloud or the network. It's about how you can leverage those technologies, that continuum to deliver you value. You know, it's interesting you say that because, again, when we were interviewing Adam Salipsky, everybody, all journalists, analysts want to know, how's Adam Salipsky going to be different from Andy Jassy? What's he going to do to Amazon to change it? He said, listen, the real answer is Amazon has changed. If Andy Jassy were here, we'd be doing, you know, pretty much the same things. Your point about 17 years ago, the cloud was S3, right? And then EC2. Now it's got to evolve to be solutions. If that's all you're selling, is the bespoke services, then, you know, the future is not as bright as the past has been. And so I think it's key to look for what are those outcomes or solutions that customers require and how you're going to meet them. And there's a lot of challenges. You continue to build value on the value that you've brought and you don't lose sight of why that value is important. You carry that value proposition up the stack, but what you're delivering, as you said, becomes maybe a bigger or different. And you are getting more solution-oriented. I mean, you're not hardcore solution, Jeff, but we're seeing more and more of that. And that seems to be a trend. We've even seen in the database world, making things easier, connecting things, not really an abstraction layer, which is sort of antithetical to your philosophy, but it creates a similar outcome in terms of simplicity. Yeah, you're smiling because you guys always have a different angle, you know? We've had this conversation. That's right, it's, Jesse used to say, it's okay to be misunderstood. That's right. For a long time. All right, guys, thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. I'm so glad we could make this happen. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right, Dave Nicholson for Lisa Martin, Dave Vellante, John Furrier in the Palo Alto studio. We're here at the FIATA, rapping out MWC 23. Keep it right there. Thanks for watching.