 Recomment? How about them recumbent genetics? She kills me. What's up everyone? Welcome. Masabi. How you doing dude? I'm good man. How are you? Alright. You look tired. I do don't I? Your eyes look tired. They are. I think this light is not the most flattering either. I might have to change the dynamic. That's all good. That's a little better. Maybe not. You're alright. You just look like you've been punched in the eye sockets a few times. I did get up pretty early today. Yeah, early for you. Yeah, for sure. Early for me. Yeah, early for you. Alright, so tonight I was thinking about maybe we could talk about a breeding A to Z, but in the form of like maybe I'll give you a set of traits and that I want out of an end goal. So just teaching people to start using goals and breeding. Right. If you trade for an end goal, hypothetical end goal, and you build it with in your in your hypothetical toolbox, what would have you and you talk about the ways you would go about this project and then vice the verse, you can give me some surprise traits and then I'll do that with a feminized version of whatever you give me. You sound like you're under water today. I don't know what the deal is. Is it coming clear for everyone or just you? I don't know. Maybe we could ask who's fucking on right now. Can you guys hear him super clear as he muffled? How we sound in? Testing, testing, one, two, three. I didn't use the cool microphone and shit this round because I thought it was just not doing anything different, but maybe that's why. Maybe that's why. Okay. Maybe it's just me, so I'll suffer. You suffer through it. I'll suffer through it. So basically it's like one of the maybe I'll throw like my spiel on it or whatever, but for a minute there, probably the last five to seven years especially, there was like this explosion of seed making. Right. And we've talked amongst about it's probably like maybe even to the point where like 90% of the current people selling seeds started in that era. Yeah. Right. And so in that time, like there was this big explosion of monetary value and all that. And so that economics changed how people bred. Yeah. A lot. Not everyone, but certainly a lot of people. Right. And like what used to be like side projects that could take some time or have goals ended up being like mashing a lot of famous things together. Yeah. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Right. But it just changed the dynamic of like, you know, a lot of multi-stage breeding kind of went like to the wayside. Yeah, I sure did. I sure did. Right. And so what we're talking about this evening is sort of like, you know, I mean, I guess you can get lucky and just knock it out of the park one step. But for the most part, like it would be a multi-stage process to get to where you want. Yeah. I mean, over several years, over several, several years, it's really hard to knock it out of the park consistently all the time, unless you're doing certain kinds of femme breeding of known clone to known clone, you know, but yeah. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, one of the benefits of like what's happening right now in the community might be that like the people that do decide to keep breeding, people are into like longer projects. Yeah. You know, and so it used to be there was a minute there where people would be like, well, you can't get Skittles and you can't get Chem 91, but if I make a hybrid, maybe you'll buy that. Yeah. Right. And so rather than like Skittles has these things that I want and so does Chem 91. And is there a way I can blend these two things and eventually end up with this plant that has the best of both worlds? Yeah. Right. I mean, that's still like, if I can blend these two things, I guess that's still an end goal. If you have an end goal of what you think they might end up at in the end, but that's still kind of like the process, the beginning process of making crosses. It's just like, hey, plant A, plant B, I want the best of both. Let's see what happens, you know, but having an end goal where you're like, I want this plant to end up like this for this environment, for this, this XYZ is super detailed, you know. Yeah. Well, I mean, it depends on how similar you want them to be. Like you might only care about like, for instance, a couple of the traits that you're trying to combine and not need it to be like this. Obviously, like the more things you're trying to achieve, the more difficult it becomes. Yeah. But if, you know, a simple way to think about it would be like, what if I want to combine the Terps from this plant with the potency of this other one? Yeah. Then you're only searching for two things. Yeah. Right. So it can be defined by your goals too. Yeah. Right. In that, in that regard. I just think about it so differently. I don't even think that like, to me that I don't consider that it's goals, but it's not what I'm necessarily referring to when I say goals. Sure. Because one, one is, I'm predicting, I want an outcome, desired outcome, and I'm picking many, I'm picking from my library to make that outcome happen. And the other is still, I'm going to hit these together and try to get the best out of what results. Yeah. Based on what I know. I'm not saying one is more legitimate. I'm just saying that like, they're, you know, it's like a little bit different to try to create like a line that has certain traits. Yeah. And what I'm going to ask you to do is going to be the hard one. That's going to be the hard one. Tell the hard one. The hard one. You know, and then on top of that too, like, you know, it's kind of interesting, but like, if you have breeders, mats one, you know, like that have been at it for a long time and that keep certain plants around quite a long time, right? Like our buddy Caleb or Flight, whoever, right? What they get to do is the more you breed, you actually get to start to see which traits of the plant that you breed with follow up in the kids. Yeah. Because there's some really amazing cuts out there that suck as breeders. Yes. Very much so. Like the individual cut itself is amazing. It's great smoke and all that, but it's not a stable or a solid thing. Yeah. And then there's other things that just seem to breed true for certain characteristics almost no matter what. Yeah. There's a lot that are just shit growers that people normally wouldn't keep, but are amazing breeders and don't breed for the traits they visually express. Somebody just said, yes, terpenaline is very hard to breed out. Yeah. Once it's in there, boy, it's really difficult finding what you want without it in there. It really dominates. Yeah, it does. If she throws her weight around, you know, and that's interesting too, because there's aspects where it's like, since I'm going to do the hard one, what used to be fucked up about breeding, especially if it took multi-stage is that you have to make sure that you save seeds from every stage because you can totally fuck up a line and do something that you didn't want to do, and it's a real bummer. And if you don't have a way to go back one generation and go in a different direction, then you're just stuck with that mistake. Yeah, definitely. And I don't think most people, when they think about breeding, realize that they would ever have to go back a generation. I don't think that even comes into the equation in their mind. I know it didn't when I was young. Oh, yeah. I mean, it can be, most of our friends wish they had, there's at least one project they did that they really like, that they feel like they fucked up a bit along the way and they wish they could go back and redo, you know? Yeah. So he feels like DJ did that. DJ's stuff is his own story in itself. It's unique. But, you know, I mean, there's an aspect of like different people have worked his stuff in different directions at different times. He's given it over to seed companies and then gotten back seed stock. So it definitely is like what era you got it from. It could vary quite a bit. Yeah, that's true. I would say so. Yeah. So, you know, but yeah, I mean, there's an aspect of like, I think for like most hobby breeders really, having some kind of goal is probably good. Yeah. Because I tell people all the time, like the most important thing of what you're doing is that like you're happy with it. Yeah. Right. In the end, that's it. Well, yeah. I mean, for a long time we bred, we just tried to breed weed that we like to smoke. Yeah. Because it was long enough ago that like we just never really felt like any kind of seed company was even realistic. Yeah. I never thought ever about getting a famous seed company ever in the history of my company. Yeah. I mean, when we were breeding in the 90s and early 2000s and stuff like that, like the people that started seed companies back then literally still went to Europe. Oh yeah. Yeah. You had to go there to make it big. So it was like a massive life shit. Like it was, you know, so a lot of us, we just bred for ourselves. Yeah. You know, now it's cool with Instagram, you know, and all these different various platforms. You can do some, a lot of people can do small breeding and then offer it up and reach people. Yeah. And so there's this commercialism aspect that was like hard before. So like before a lot of times people were trying to just please themselves and their buddies. And now it's more like please the public, which is fine. And there was a certain era too where it wasn't even just please the public. It was a much smaller crowd and it was please the forum crowd. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. Tiny era of, well, it may not be what I like, but it's what sells on the forums. And even that is a vast difference from what sells on Instagram now, you know? So I remember those, I remember those eras and what was hot and like the pressure to breed with all that work because it's just people want it. And I mean, I, you know, we, there's even posts from Neville when he was, when he was posting in like 2009 or 10 that even in the 80s and early 90s he would get shit for everybody would be like, oh, I want the purest indica imaginable. Yeah. He'd release something that was like that and then they would suffer and yield and he would get endless bitching. Yeah. So there's always been a commercial aspect of it, you know? And then you end up having to like, you end up having to please people. So in some ways, all my friends, anybody that breeds for non-commercial purposes, you just get to do whatever the fuck you want. Well, in this case, you're going to do what the customer wants. Oh my God, okay, here we go. So this is a rather picky customer, right? It's something that obviously has to work in the modern market since this is 2022. They want something with eight weeks flowering. They don't want none of that long flowering shift that you love. They want eight weeks flowering. They want a little bit of purple, right? A little bit of purple. The most important thing that they're missing in their arsenal is black licorice mixed with gas. They want some gassy back end on it and black licorice. And like I said, modern market and they don't want any OG or cookies. They want unique. Oh man. So where do we start to please this customer? They don't want any OG or cookies. So right there, right? That makes it, everybody just heard, like they want like six different things in the same line. So that everything you add potentially makes it harder or longer of a search to try to figure it out. Or you have to get luckier to find it quick. Or you have to have a large library that you're very familiar with. That helps too because obviously, like if you know how your plants breed, that could narrow it down a bunch. That would be helpful like for me. But if you were just trying to smash plants together to find that aspect, it would probably be pretty rough. Yeah. And so basically what they want is something that's pretty funny. They want quick, purple. They want good turps. Frosty is shit. Frosty is shit. Oh my god. It's a modern market. They need something that washes. They need something that washes. No OG either. Not just cookies. No OG. They're trying to turn that corner like Werner was doing. And they want it to be feminized or regular? No, you're doing regular. Oh my god. You're going to do the same for me in reverse with feminized and you can pick the traits. That is horrible. He just fucked me. So the hard part obviously is that, okay, so just break it down, right? You need something frosty, turpy, fairly attractive. You need it to come in relatively quickly. And the hardest one out of all that is probably like the black licorice turps because that's pretty specific and fucking rare. And then the other part of it that sucks is that it has to be a regular seed line. Yeah. It doesn't have to be a regular seed line. So in that regard, what you would have to do is you would either... It can be a multi-step process. Well, yeah. I mean, so that's what I'm saying is like you would end up, one of your first steps probably would be like you would have to figure out what kind of mail you wanted to use and then you would cross it to one of the females that you want to use and start there. And then you have a male, female blend. Because now at first, you need a pollen source. Yes. Right? That was one of the attractiveness of fucking everybody like doing feminizes because they could create their own pollen source. And they knew pretty much what traits were going to probably pass because they could smell their pollen source and look at the bud. Yeah. Yeah. So there's basically, there's a way too where it's like, you know, once you... That's where all like the BX or BC is people talking about. Like that's where it started. Yeah. Is people needed a pollen donor to start working on their line idea. Yeah. And then they could start playing with it. Once they had pollen, they could make pollen every generation. Yeah. Is really what it boils down to. So realistically speaking, probably what I would end up doing is that my buddy is throwing me off by answering, but what I would probably do is I would cheat and I would, my buddy that just made me laugh, him and I made some, a bunch of hybrids with some old maple leaf endococides from the early 2000s. Right? And one of the things that we did is we crossed it to the Mendo P. Okay. Right? So the Mendo P has some color. It's got crazy turps. It doesn't wash that well or anything like that. But at the very least, it's something old and basic that you could start with. Yes. Yeah. Right? So, you know, one of the things you need to start with is like an idea of how you're going to start and how you're going to finish. Yes. Right? Because whatever you finish with, the cross is 50% that. Yes. You know? And so you're starting, you're starting and your ending is 50-50 and in the middle you get to play. Right? So, and it's not potent. Yeah. No. I mean, that's the thing is you're starting with limitations. We don't, we don't need it. I don't believe potency was a part of it because in today's market you can wash and everything's potent. So, potent's not a part of the equation. So, probably what I would do is I would take that maple leaf endicure by Mendo perps. Right? And I would grow it out and I would pick a male, probably one that leaned like in leaf structure and all that and especially one that turned colors on its male flowers and stuff. And I would probably pick the most Mendo perp leaning male I possibly could. Yeah. Which it should be relatively easy because the maple doesn't turn colors and the leaf structure is way different. Right? And Mendo P kicks certain kinds of Terps, doesn't it? And Mendo P kicks certain kinds of Terps. Right? So, well, the other thing is that it's like a basic indica that I started with and then you cross it to something extremely unique. So, hopefully you can pick out a bunch of that unique, right? In your male, which makes it a lot easier than if it was like two similar things. Yeah. So, take some pollen of that and I would probably throw it on something like the snow. Right. Interesting. I wouldn't have thought of that choice. That's an interesting one. Yeah. Well, the reason is is that when I was doing that project down south, I got to run a lot of Caleb's gear. Yeah. And I probably ran half a dozen snow hybrids. Yeah. And the shit just consistently kicks nice pretty colas covered in frost. It shortens up the flower time and all that. Right? So, the Mendo perps would bring some color and some Terps. The snow would bring structure and crystal and like a nice look. Yeah. That's a good choice. I like it. And I've seen it. And I've seen it work consistently on a bunch of hybrids already. Yeah. Throw the kind of traits through a bunch of different crosses that I like. So, the chance that it could do that and this one is probably reasonably high. I don't think so. So, boom. Now I have a snow by maple by purple. Yeah. Right. So, you grow up that. Now it's more complicated because you're looking for traits. So, now probably what you're doing is because it's not going to be as easy to visually pick it out. It would probably get shitty and you'd probably end up picking like three of the nicest males you could find. Yeah. And separately pollinating like the female of your choice. Yeah. Then you grow them all out and you see which of those three you hopefully passed the most traits that you were looking for. Because there's an aspect with males where you're like really not going to know. Yeah. You know. So, the wider male pool you use, the better. Yeah. As long as you can isolate it and see which one goes to which. Yeah. For the sake of this argument and not to get like crazy esoteric and stupid. I would just say three triplets. Yeah. You know. And so, now I have a snow Mendo P maple. Okay. Right. And so, I take a male of that or three males of that. Right. And I hit it to, I hit it each separately to my Maui. Because the Maui is. Bring in the Maui. Well, the Maui turns purple in the cold. It's super frosty. It's got chunks all over it. It's done in eight weeks. So, now you've got a quick maple, a quick Mendo P, a quick Maui. You know. The snow is reasonably quick. So, you all of a sudden you start upping your chances that like a Fino that you want is going to be in that 50 to 60 day range of what you're going for, I guess. Right. Yeah. You know. And since the Maui turns a little purple and the Mendo P's purple, you don't have a lot of purple in there, but you have some. Definitely. And you can start looking for it. And the snow and the Maui end up having like, you know, the structure and the frost. Yeah. So, then I would hunt through that. But that's, let's see. So, maple onto the, maple onto the, onto the Mendo P. That's one stage. Yeah. Right. And then that onto the snow, that's two stages. And then a male out of that onto the Maui, you're already at three stages. Yeah. You know. And where's your gas coming in? Where's my gas coming in? Boy, you know, the gas is going to be hard, I think, because I think right there you probably have your, your, wait, you said gas and? Yes. Gas and licorice. Gas and licorice. Fuck dude, that's fucking hard. You're going to have to do this over 10 years. What if I just pick one? I'm just going to pick one and you're going to have to deal with it. Yeah, yeah. We could do one. We could try one. Okay. So, now we have a long process as is. Now we have a, like, what is it? Like, it's like a four-way hybrid now. It's like maple, maple started the pollen, maple Mendo and snow and Maui. Yeah. So, if we wanted, if we wanted, now it's going to be 50% of the cross, right? So, we have a bunch of early shit, a bunch of frosty shit, a couple purple things. If I really wanted to jack up the purple and the licorice, I only have one thing I could do. I could put it on the anise. Yes. But then that would be, but then that would be, that would be fucked because then there were dead, the chance that you would also get gas would be kind of hard. The anus. The anus, the star anus, you know, because black licorice is really hard. So, I don't think to be perfectly honest. We're not going for gas anymore. We're just dropping that going for all black licorice and modern. People are talking about Jaeger. The anus is actually extremely close to the Jaeger. Oh, somebody just said the fisherman. Who the fuck just said the fisherman? That's why. What's that one? What's that one? So, my buddy, my buddy and I, we used to grow a bunch of anus together and he used to take it down to the bay and give it to certain crews, right? And he was a professional tuner fisherman. Yeah. So, they used to call, they used to call, when we sold them that weed, they used to call it the the fisherman. Nice. Because my buddy's nickname was actually tuna. Tuna. Oh, yeah. Was he in the movie Blow? No, he was not in the movie Blow. Damn. But he, but yeah, I mean, he's he's actually like, you know, he's actually a big part of that story really. But yeah, the the fisherman he, that was probably back in 06 or something like that. So, just so people know, right? Like, I didn't even talk about like, you could get really lucky in what I described and you could do it all in that many steps, or you could gross it out and realize it's not at all what you want and want to go back a step. Yeah. That's like a best case scenario right there. Yeah, that definitely is a best case scenario. You know, because that's assuming that like each stage and then you could talk for a little bit about like, well, how many? Yeah. You know, because every cross you have a female is the certainty. Yeah. But does the male pass what you want of the hybrid? That's why I always call it the shotgun method. Yeah, you called it the shotgun method and it's right. But like what people used to do in the old days is they would, they would cross like their three, every stage they would cross their three favorite males. Yeah. To the same female and mark them different. And then when you grow them out, you look. Yeah. And whatever one gave you the best females, you picked males from that, that donation. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know, because you were, because that, that was the way that we tested back then. If you just did one male, you're just hoping three isn't even all that great. But it's like, let's be reasonable about people's ability to actually do shit, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, and then, you know, it doesn't, I mean, it doesn't have to be huge. It just depends on everybody's size. It depends on what you're trying to do. You know, 50 or 100 seeds held back is probably plenty for most people's purposes. Yeah. Yeah. And then you'd probably, and then you'd, right there, you'd probably have a situation that would be, there would be plenty of purple plants. There would be a lot of frosty and visually attractive plants. The licorice would be in there, but it might be a little harder to find, you know? And the gas, we'd have to do one more stage to something. Yeah. To get lucky. And they asked what you're naming it. I think he's gonna probably call it the obvious, the purple anus. The purple anus. Yeah. The purple. But that's how, I mean, in a sense, like, you know, when, when we were planning the super dog project, it was like we, we were trying to get the, the, the looks and the greenery and the smell of the skunk combined with like the density and the, and the power of the chem dog. Yeah. You know, and so what Matt just gave me, was he just gave me like, what was it, a five or six requirements? It was, it was several. Yeah. Yeah. That makes it a real pain. Purple, black licorice, gas, eight weeks, flowering, works in the modern market. So that's, that's like five. Five. That's five, six. Yeah. That's, that's, yeah. It's half a dozen, it's half a dozen different thing. So that makes it more difficult. Yes. If you're only looking to combine a couple of traits from, from one cross, then you can do what I'm going to do with Matt and you can do easy and you can cheat and you not do, don't even need a mail. Yeah. You know, but that's how everybody used to start things. And then the traditional way, which is like what got done to maybe like the C 99 and other shit was that people would, now it's BC, but back then it was BX. People would just repeatedly cross males of a hybrid to the same clone. Yeah. One, two, three, four times. Yeah. Basically trying to get an inbred plant that was as close to the mother clone as they could. Yeah. And because of that, that explanation of C 99 and that long explanation of how it was achieved and blah, blah, blah, people have consistently, even myself, I was trying to do BX threes for years and finding that like, I'm ending up with way more bullshit than I started with. Why does this look like an F2 as opposed to a BX three? This should be locking in stuff, not going way further away from it. And it just doesn't, sometimes things work great in theory in other plants that don't necessarily apply as well in cannabis because it's so variant. And a lot of people don't understand that because of C 99, the, the misinformation given with C 99. Yeah. And I mean, people just think that like, you know, when you're BXing, it's like, you probably need a pretty big population. And then there's a reason why they call it inbreeding depression. Yeah. You know, it really takes big populations to avoid that. And so most people are doing hobby shit, you know? And so what you just, you know, is like, there's an aspect of like trying to, you know, it's like, I always think of like what Neville's criteria was for his NL five hazes. Yeah. Right. Is he didn't want anything that went over 16 weeks, because he thought that was way too fucking long. And he wanted the potency. And he wanted nice enough buds and enough yield that it was worth going the four months it took. And it had to grow and grow down, grow Dan Rockwell on the ground. Well, yeah. I mean, they, and that's all they used or whatever. So that was, that was the aspect, but that's not, he didn't really actually breed for Terps. He didn't breed, he didn't add in a bunch of extra shit. He was going for weight, potency, and it couldn't take 22 weeks, you know, like a lot of the hazes were. So, you know, he only picked really three things. Yeah. You know, and, you know, we just picked five or six. So it just goes to show that like don't, don't get discouraged, you know, try to, try to pick a reasonable, a reasonable blend. And it's always easier if like, if Matt hadn't given me like the, the licorice thing was a super bitch, but like if, cause it really limits, there's only a few things that have it. I was going to go cinnamon, but I decided to be nice. Cinnamon, I would have just thrown my hands up and been like, what the fuck? You know, asshole. Yeah. I mean, cause you can get too specific, but I mean, obviously there's, there's scents like gas or like terpenaline or like citrus or whatever that occur commonly enough in cannabis, that you'd have a bunch of pads to pick where you wanted to get that turp from. The turp that Matt picked was hella limiting. So you really are like grasping at straws. There are some, there are some good ones I thought of that you could have come up with that would have covered all the bases too. I might have missed it. You know, it's hard to think off the top of your head, like a four or five stage project that requires a real male because, you know, 20 years ago, all your buddy's seeds, it was like everything you had in your collection had regular males in it. Yeah. And now most might not all of it, but there's a good chunk of my shit that's feminized. Yes. So that's all, I don't want to say it's useless, but it's like it for this particular fucking thing, it's like not very helpful. Yeah. How many people make reg seeds right now? Yeah, but you could have done a fem female with a male fem line female. So I could have. Yeah. I mean, there's probably, and that's the cool part, right? Is that it's like sometimes past your goal. It's like what you had access to. Yeah, like the chem DLA kush was one I was thinking of specifically for like maybe some, some turps like gas and black licorice, but it's not necessarily purple. You know, I actually missed that. I didn't realize that until a whole bunch of people started popping that hybrid, the LA by D. Yeah. And there's a bunch of people that got gas and headband aromas and all that, like I was expecting, but I would say there's been a few dozen people at least that have talked about anus turps. Yeah. They got the annus. They got the annus, which was really interesting that, you know, to have that pop up, you know, even occasionally or whatever, you know. And, you know, I, you know, I went on a mission a while, a little while ago, and I brought back all those seeds, right? Yeah. And my buddy just never, never did the fem. So remember what I was reading him do the other day? Yes. And it's like a hodge because it's like what males did he have when and what was he using to blend with what, you know. It's something I've noticed with like a lot of Mendo breeding and a lot of like the old school breeding, as opposed to like, like with my mindset, it's like, I want to use something very, very, very basic, like almost as close to land races as I can or something very stable as possible, you know, typically on the male end. So I'm not seeing a lot of variations. So I know where I'm going. Whereas back in the day, it looks like they would do that single stage cross the polyhybrid, polyhybrid, polyhybrid, polyhybrid, polyhybrid, polyhybrid even back then, like it was just how it was done. Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of like what I call hillweed, where people would, when they sex their plants, their males would stay in five or 10 gallon pots off downwind in the woods somewhere. Yeah. Right. And then when they wanted to make fresh seed every couple of years or whatever, they would wait and they would go collect pollen from all their saved males and blend it together. Right. And then they'd walk up to their patch and they're two or three favorite females that year. They would take a paintbrush or whatever and they would brush the bottoms of those plants and mark them. So then they're taking a blend of like, you know, whatever it is, six or 12 or 15 boys, blending it together and then adding it to like the three or four sweetest females they saw from the line. Yeah. And you do that for 10 or 15 years and then you have, you have a bunch of kind of unique hillship. Yeah. You know, it was like, it was relatively diverse and they wouldn't do it every year. Most people would just try to make fresh seed stock every two or three sometimes. Some people were nerding out and doing it all the time. And some people like seeds was like the only thing that they knew about. So they just tried to freshen them up every other season or so. You know, it sounds like I'm talking down on it, but actually like that's the kind of stuff I hunt. Like if I hear about someone having old hillweed seeds on something, I'm like, oh, let me get out of, you know, I don't know why, but it's always the most appealing to me for some reason. It's also from an era where there was a whole bunch of diversity. Yeah. And it was before like the same 45 clones get blended together in innumerable ways. Yeah. So even just going back that far opens up the gene pool in a way. I mean, that's kind of why when I said like, you know, what my buddy that I made those seeds with or whatever, he breeds seeds every year. Yeah. You know, he's got stuff going back. He's got all kinds of odd stuff. I'm sure people would love to hear it. But he, but you know, he breeds for him or whatever. And so he had these, you know, roughly 20 year old, like, you know, probably from like right around when Sensey was starting to go south. Yeah. He has these maple seeds and they were, you know, we crossed them to, we actually, we actually grew a bunch of them out. In five, six years ago, the Mendo perps maple, there's some really pretty pictures of them, but they burned. They burned, you know, so they got all the way to like October 9th. And then they went to shit, you know? Yeah. But that's kind of how you have to do it. It's like you have to like figure out where you're going to get it from. And for me, it was a little easier because most of the plants I've mentioned, I've had for a long time. Yeah. So I know how they work. For someone that's just getting started or whatever, like that kind of complicated thing, not knowing how the plants they have in their stable might even breed. Yeah. It could be, there could be more missteps, right? I fucked up a lot. Yeah. You know, so don't, don't, and there's, and that don't mean fuck up. I just mean like you breed things, you hope that these two things come out of them and they don't. Yeah. So it's like, you just have to try it a different way. You have to try a different pairing. You have to see if they blend, you know, and the more stages you have to do that, you know, the, you have to get, you have to get bigger, you know? Yeah. So anyway, they, but yeah, that's, that's roughly how you would do something like that. Yeah. You know, and then you want me to pick something out for you. Yeah, you can go ahead and fire off some traits. I'll write it down. Fire off some traits. And I'll do it from the fem angle. From the fem angle. Or I could do regular too, but I just figured I'd do fem. No, no, you should do fem because, because that's, that's more direct and it's easier for people to, to get, right? So I wanted, like the main reason I wanted to do it was I wanted to illustrate to people how hard it truly is to be able to say my seeds are going to deliver XYZ and to be consistent with what they say they're delivering is there's a lot more that goes into it than just I'm going to make a cross and these things smell like this and that's the way the seeds are going to come out. It's just not one way, one way for people, one way for people to look at it is like how genetics work is when you're crossing two things that are pretty simple or especially things that are widely divergent from one another. Like say for instance, Neville crossing NL5 and haze or me crossing Maple and Mendo P. Like you can see the differences because there's certain things to look for like Neville's growing some shit and it's super tall and thin leafed and grows like a tree, it's hazy. Yeah. It stays short and wide-leaved and afghan and stout and you know all that it's probably NL5 haze. Yeah. You know and for Mike the hybrid I was talking about you can look at purple you know and and some of the traits that are unique to Mendo P but if you cross things that are similar to each other it can be a real pain in the ass. Yeah. To try to figure out which one leans what way. Which one's breeding which way. You know exactly you know and so there's there's an aspect there where I guess what I'm saying is that we have entered the era where most things are like a mass hodgepodge unless you go older strains. Yeah. It's a big mix of genetics these days right and so people start putting these things together and you try to put a like a whatever you know like a freaking kushmints you know by soured sour dub two things with like huge histories what could you get. Yeah. You get a mass amount of shit right. Yeah. Oh yes yes yes for those two especially kushmints and yeah and sour dubs not too uncomplicated or whatever right so so let's say let's let's say you were gonna hunt something right you know what are you gonna hunt. So what kind of traits do you want. Say you're a customer and you're buying for some big corporation and they have these certain wants you maybe you don't even have to want them but someone wants these and you're giving the direction on what these traits are that they want. Okay so they want something that's going to be high yielding. Yield okay. High THC potency. High THC potency. Yeah got it. Can can go up to 10 weeks. Up to 10 weeks. Up to 10 weeks yeah and and let's see here. Give me three more. Give you three more. All right and then so I don't want to say purple because I just did that or whatever but let's just say that it has to have um it has to have citrus turps. Roodle okay. And wash well because they're because they want those those high yielding citrus extracts as well as that. Okay and so what do we got now we got it's got a yield well one more. We got yield well high THC up to 10 weeks citrus wash as well. High THC wash as well that should pretty much cover it I'll give you those. Okay okay um the high THC let's see I'm gonna give myself a little more complex I'm gonna have I'm gonna give it density because otherwise I would just say lemony. I just threw that in I mean as long as it yielded well yeah and and washes well I don't think the fucking I don't think the client is gonna give a shit. Yeah I would like this this like it would be probably lemon g or like lemon g something like lemon tree um but if I were going to make a fem line from scratch without the obvious shit and also leaving out like cookies and oge and stuff like that and I'm not I'm gonna remove lemon g because it's just too obvious and with citrus we'll see here I'm gonna go I'm gonna go one second C99 grapefruit as the start and as the base oh man there you go on the male side because I know that this is the dominant um oh wait I'm not doing male I'm doing female but so it's even easier but it's also the dominant uh scent expression from C99 the seed line is going around so it's going to be more commonly occurring so when I'm choosing this female and it's showing that it has those citrus grapefruit turps it'll likely also breed for those knowing C99 well like I do so we know we've got that covered but we also know C99 is like a seven to eight weaker so we can allow ourselves to bring up the THC with something a little more um a little more typically sativa end I would do I would do a clone from Appalachia I love Appalachia green crack trade dog you got the potency you got the wash well you got somebody actually just said Appalachia by C99 yeah in the comments hilarious they nailed it they nailed it that's that's what I would do a good cut like a um a green crack dominant cut with a little bit of gas of Appalachia and to a C99 grapefruit reversal and I would probably you know uh do it under metal halides on tables small plants um more plants uh in numbers for the reversal as opposed to bigger plants I'd want smaller and more and yeah that's how I do it that's how you do it now C99 doesn't wash super well but green crack washed pretty good and uh I believe Appalachia will too especially because the trade dog and I mean the other thing that you could do too is that if it ended up not washing well then you could have a C99 Appalachia hybrid that gave you some citrus and some bag appeal and some weight you know and and was going to come in within the time and and he could go another step let's say he failed yes right let's say that failed let's say that got you high yielding plants right that had some citrus um but it didn't wash very well yes but you got high potency high yield and you had citrus yes but you're short they're trying to they're trying to run it they're trying to they're trying to make ice water they're doing all this different stuff pho and it's just coming out at a percentage it's not making their extraction happy yeah now you need another step I need one more step for resin production I'm going to cheat and go for the white the white you're going to go for the white the classic boost resin production um the turps aren't that great but I've seen it combine well with stuff that is really dominant like C99 so I'd probably add the white in there because it was also it also has that that huge bag appeal and it does have good THC do you think the C99 citrus is strong enough that it would carry through and a lot of those hybrids still and still be dominant I do I think you can't wash it out I think it's kind of like deep chunk one of the so you think it would be it would be one of those things where like the the the sheer blandness of the white yep wouldn't dominate yep so then we'd have a a C99 by uh by Appalachia by the white Appalachia uh C99 white yeah that's the way I do it because I reverse the white because I also know the white reverse as well that was the other thing I was thinking all right so that's the other part is you can get a failed reversal and I know the white reverse as well rascal did it consistently I've done it a few times so it's a good one interesting I mean I uh and that ladies and gentlemen is when you start talking to corporate guys about what they want why things like Jack Herrera and Jack Herrera hybrids are blended into everything because they're like I want three pounds of light got to look pretty it's got to be quick you know I want a sativa high and it's got to be eight weeks yeah and so then they're like oh C99 Jack Herrera like I remember when Colorado I was going to make fun of you but I held off when Colorado went legal I think like I remember that everybody was getting three pounds of light but it was all hybrids of Jack Herrera Durvin poison green crack and there was one more because it was anything that threw like big long four-armed golden goats yeah and they would just hybridize things looking for phenos that they would get three pounds of light yeah you know and so everything was crossed like one of those four things because they all looked at it from like mathematics you know I think I think realistically why C99 still is popular today even is even more so than even more so than Jack Herrera even I think C99 still dominates is because of the outdoor scene in California and because of that demand for a sativa type that's super fast flowering that finishes in time in North Cal and I tend to think Appalachia is going to be what totally wipes C99 out with when enough people run it it had a good it had a good run for a while by a high and lonesome when he originally made it and then Bodie did a bunch of crosses with it but I still think it's got its its big run coming jack does carry the turpinoline turps for generations yep you know uh green crack is actually a really nice strain grown well yeah most people have got a bad name because there was a bunch of people that would grow six to ten pound outdoor plants kind of be great of it and it got blown out but if you grow a nice little four to eight ounce plant and you know and you treat it right it's got some nice turps it's got a sweet high it's not like knock you out like but it's it's pretty you know it might be like if it is mostly skunk one it might be my favorite example of skunk one yeah yeah I would I would say like just the way sometimes like when it comes out really nice the bud is really green and the the crystal is really silvery you know and it's it's got a nice sweet turp to it you know there's a good there's a good chance it might be a mendo perp skunk one of sorts I do think that green crack yeah holy fuck that would trip me out yeah I mean it's mango turpee um it's very purple with even the slightest bit of cold but I mean it's like black people say where can I find it that's the thing is that real green crack was so common that all of a sudden it's like really hard to find the real one yes and you know it got renamed honestly and like the people read its name because real because green crack got a bad name like brokers put off on it but then when the extract era happened I'm convinced that there's a bunch of papaya that's just fucking green crack it could be yeah you know I'm not saying 100% all of it but like when you extract green crack and you wash it it has nice tropical fruit turps some people get papaya some people get mango some people get whiffs of other things depending on their nose or whatever um but you know it it has that similar profile yeah in that regard you know I think because of certain traits there's a good chance that mendo perp stand to be in that lineage I'm surprised you never noticed that one I would I would honestly trip out if that was the I mean I've been wrong before yeah I'll say that and I we've had good friends of ours that that told me things that I was just like oh no and then later on I was like whoa whoa you know so it's it's possible but um you know I the story of that one is pretty mysterious it is very mysterious because there's the tale of Cecil and when I when I first encountered it was through through uh James Hogg he had green crack but we had it labeled as green kush with a sea in our room and it actually said green like written out kush with the sea so because of that when I first went online people were talking about how well Cecil see has a kush with the sea so for a long time me and Cecil tried to meet up so we could talk about this stuff and figure it out and when we finally talked it sounds like his kush with the sea was very skunky like he says the one that he said to san diego was very skunky which is not like the green crack or the green kush that was in san diego um I don't know if it originates in san diego I don't know if it originates in Mendo or up up in Humboldt it could be from freaking Oregon for all we know with a different name I know it made it to SoCal with the name uh green kush with the sea oh yeah and then became green crack after that people are throwing around different things people are asking like well how do you source what you're breeding with and to be honest um you know like I never really did a bunch of breeding projects where I had to go out and like have a a treasure map and find the things I wanted um mostly you end up breeding with stuff you have access to yeah let's be real we were creating a hypothetical situation and I tend to have a so I tended to pick things in my library not hypothetical things I'd have to get but like actual things that I possess yeah because that's just where my mind goes right it would be infinitely harder to like be like oh well I need to do a project that's going to take three or four steps and I need to gather a bunch of different things that are going to be new to me you know and there's an aspect I don't people are talking about if I don't think phylos phylos can't actually determine family relationships the way that we hope one day one day we will sit down and a few of us will tell the story about how we put phylos's science to the test by using known clones known parentage of these clones and submitted them to phylos to see if they could truly determine parentage so there's an aspect for you one day yeah there's an aspect too where people are saying green crack and blue dream got played out right at the same time yeah you know there's there's an aspect you know because I live in mendicino county or whatever like and for a long time it was sort of like the heart of of uh you know outdoor and stuff in california before it spread um a lot of times you would have plants that were really nice on their own like the blue dream or the green crack or the berry white or the this or whatever it might be and they get there's an era where like they're really popular and they're and they're moving really well and people are growing really nice examples of them and then there's a point where people realize how much money they can make and they can throw out 99 plants and get eight pounds of plant and you do the math and so all the sudden there's all this b and c grade of the same strain and it kind of harshes the strain out so a lot of times people will be like oh that strain sucks and really what happened is is the market got exploded by a bunch of low quality enormous waves of it because it was super profitable um and then the you know the you know it moves on and so people move on you grow a little four ounce plant of green crack or blue dream you'd probably be pretty happy yeah you grow it nice you know you grow a little three or four ounce plant of it like you'd probably be stoked and so are your buddies blue dream because i was still very heavily involved in the seed seed business when blue dream got real big and all that got blown up and what i saw happened right before my eyes was there was a few of us that made s ones of that original cut and released it in some good hybrids and then we saw major spanish companies making seed lines called blue dream that had nothing to do with blue dream the cut they would combine like a blueberry and and their hazes whatever they had and put that out on the market and uh i don't want to name any names or anything but certain companies would buy these import them to the u.s and all of a sudden these blue dream seeds were everywhere the attitude was doing giveaways with everything you bought you would get these blue dream seeds so blue dream hit the country in mass but it wasn't blue dream it was blueberry haze from some spanish company with uh with the california market getting the majority of the actual blue dream but right and i mean there's an aspect too where i think that for most plants there's a window of uh of quality yeah you know it varies plant to plant but i actually think a lot of the indoor look is just because people are growing relatively small plants compared to outside and yeah you know so you're only asking a plant to give you say like one to eight ounces it'll have a vastly different look than if you're asking that plant to give you a pound or two pounds or three pounds or eight pounds right yeah and i've had i've had times where it was like when we were transplanting and stuff like some plants got broken off at the stem yeah and so not used and so i would grow these like depths and these plants would get like a pound and then like helpers wouldn't want to throw away the ones we broke so there'd be like a branch this big a stem this big with a few branches coming off it and when we pulled that stuff down that looks stuff looks so amazing compared to compared to like the the rest of it because it was like three ounces yeah and it was just super frosty and choked out so there's an aspect certainly with different plants of like there's a size sweet spot yeah where you get the i like blue dream at four to six ounces that's where it was like just fucking perfect every fucking time most weed is if it's gonna be good weed you know that's a decent that it can it can get that big you know some plants can get to a half pound some plants can get to a pound but there's a there's a point of diminishing quality yeah absolutely you know where it's like the resin doesn't stretch or the turps don't stretch or the plant just has to put so much energy into its stem and its structure and it's how it's going to survive it doesn't have enough to put into you know it's the quality of its weed yeah i mean there's people that swear that small little plants in one gallon pots you know or is the head or is the headiest weed yeah that's i know that um when csi was talking about ship buds uh sour that he talks about it's like some of the best smokies ever had out of a millions of plants he's probably smoked um he always says that you know it was in a one gallon pot the flower or power flower and that's it yeah i mean so there's an aspect there's an aspect there where it's like you i mean i used to actually do a bunch of breeding that way right once i got smart uh smart ur i said i i suppose i should say because i used to just grow up all these fucking seeds and granted the era was different but still you'd get all this random weed that you didn't like very much yeah because let's face it when you're breeding it's like you're only gonna like so much of it yeah you know and then i got and then i got smart instead of like blooming the seeds i would grow them up and i would take cuts and i would put them into like a one gallon pot and i would grow like on a you know i might grow like 50 or 100 plants on a four by eight and i'm just going for like a single stock try to get a half ounce yeah but that half ounce will tell me does it have the turps does it have the high that's enough smoke and then maybe i can grow out a hundred things at once and it's small enough to still know you're getting the quality the ultimate quality that you can get from that plant without having to push it hard yeah and you're starting from a clone because that's the other thing that i realized is like a lot of times i wanted to see like what a clone would do yeah because you only get one shot at the seed yeah you only ever see that seed one yeah it's got a tap root it's going to act differently yeah so i got more consistent when i just like when i would just take i would breed and i would i wouldn't flower the seed plants i would flower the clones yeah i would want to see what they did as clones and then i could flower almost like a sea of green style and then you could have 100 or 150 things and if they're like you know 10 to 20 ounce 10 to 20 grams each maybe a zip yeah and that's one thing that's one thing i've been trying to teach everybody that's watched like breeder syndicate or my my live streams uh since i started doing them is when you buy seeds when you buy seeds in your popping seeds you know a lot of people run into um sexual instability issues all kinds of other issues or they like it the one time and they don't like it the rest and they don't understand why you know i always tell them i always say don't worry about blooming the mom don't worry about blooming the seed mom bloom bloom the clone mom because that's what you're gonna see every time and that's what matters that's what that's what matters that's where you need to make your choices from and it'll 99% of the time any sexual instability issues are gone with the clone 99% time for whatever reason that's how it works it's just different hormones so yeah but yeah i mean i used to get two ounces four ounces five ounces eight ounces all these different plants all these different sizes all all that and like it's hard to do that but you can actually go through a bunch of plants and you really don't need to me you really don't need more than you know 10 or 20 grams should give you like a really good idea whether or not which ones you like enough to like work with again yeah and that's good that could be done on one or two four bites yeah it doesn't even take that much you know and then you and then you know i would just toss the seed mom and i would just keep clone you know clones is back up yeah and as soon as they grew a little bit just flip them and i wanted to see like what the main the main stem would do wouldn't top them just try to get spears yeah relatively speaking yeah you know i mean it's not the only way to do it but it is a way for people a lot of people these days are going to have smaller sized areas to work with and then if you did that into a greenhouse you could look what you could look through three or four hundred plants if you want it yeah but the hard part is going to be testing it is labeling drying it keeping it separate i mean you know kale if he's got fucking hangers with all kinds of color coded labels on them yeah notes and shit and then you're trying to keep them all separate and different plastic bag or different jars or whatever and then you're trying to like smoke and take notes so let's talk about like the the downside of doing too big of a pop that's what i was just saying you know it's like how do you you you know like there's an aspect of like um doing too big of a pop is cool in the sense that when you're looking for certain physical characteristics you're going through more faster yeah right and so you can you can you can sift through but then you know um you know smoke testing let's say you have 50 things 100 things smoke testing all that takes a while and you usually got to engage friends yeah let's say you have 13 000 things though that was yeah i mean that was uh at that point you're not really feno i mean you're you're not really feno hunting you're doing some feno hunting but you realize that like the vast majority of it it's going to get lost to time yeah you know and that's getting time i mean we have a pretty big thing going right now with some of Caleb's work and it's it's like we really get to see what's in the line yeah and how it expresses right but the vast majority of them aren't going to be kept for any reason yeah the vast majority can't be smoked i mean it's just to get to that like if you're let's say you're popping 2000 like how are you going to smoke that within a certain amount of period unless you just have people cheaping for free all day and those motherfuckers don't go away you know yeah i mean there's an aspect where really like for a hobby gardener i mean a lot of depending on how people smoke even if you did 60 or 70 things it would take you you know if you smoked two or three of them a day you know it would take you you know almost a month yeah to sort through it yeah and so you know um you know and then you could also have certain kinds of criteria maybe some things you smoke one bowl of and it doesn't have the flavor you don't like it you just immediately you know but then it's like how fine of a comb yeah you know um people say cut a clone late in flower you know there's a lot of uh there's a lot of euros that don't like to keep back up clones and they'll literally do this thing where they'll leave all the bottoms on their plants and they'll bloom them and their favorites they'll just like move before the plants fully finished and yeah re-vege the bottoms yeah you know the problem with that that there's nothing wrong with that method um because a lot of times the easiest things to re-vege are like the poorly flowered out uh you know wispy shit on the bottom so you can cut a plant down and smoke it and be re-veging it um but it does take months it does it takes a few months for it to start kicking back yeah I did it a lot I did it a ton for a long time um when I would do uh uh phenohunts because I would try to do as big of a phenohunt as I could do in with as many different lines and what usually ended up happening was that I couldn't keep you know four clones of every single thing that I was hunting through so I had to get really good at re-veging I had to get it right every fucking time and figure out how to do that and eventually I figured out how to do that and be consistent with it but it's hard and it takes a long fucking time my buddy that was mentioning that I did the maple project he was he that he was just saying he does 50 60 things at a time and it's a bitch yeah you know it's like you have lives it's not that easy to like it's one thing to get baked every day it's another thing to like take notes and see how you feel and you know be looking for certain aspects of things so you either have to be a super harsh dick or it takes a minute yeah you know um and so and a lot of times what sucks you know is that uh you know the runty shitty fucked up plant that you almost killed ends up being the most interesting one to smoke and flavor yeah and all the ones that had all the structure and growth and vigor that you wanted were were just you know okay compared to some of those other ones yeah it's always the scrawny shitty one that doesn't want to revenge the most ever one that's usually the one I want to keep yeah I mean I obviously like those I mean imagine imagine if you know the og craze happened but like og grew like blue drink yeah there really would be blue dream billionaires yeah you know and all that because it's like that but that's the that's the kind of intro maybe we could talk about that for a minute because well it's interesting is that I was talking about like when things went legal in Colorado and all of a sudden all these high yielding plants started getting bred into all the indoor because that's what met met the model yeah there is a risk as things become legal that the weird runty fucked up offshoots that we all know and love that end up becoming like our elites get cold yeah because they don't meet the production model well I remember even even when sub cool was at the height of breeding fame I would call it even what he would what he had when I would call his genuine fame at one point that dude was pretty famous and he was putting it out there hold on one second let's drop my shit I'm gonna interrupt then for a second our homie from Hawaii was saying taking cuts two or three weeks into flour is nice they stay small and about the time they rebedge you're finishing up the round that's what CSI does a whole bunch his primary method is to take clones clean up the bottoms about two weeks into vet into bloom and then that and then that slows down and they freak out for a while but they kind of are on the same timing as your room so around the time you figure out which ones are good or hope you know they're because they get because you can get them too big and then you're chopping them back yeah I was gonna say sub cool he would cull a lot of seeds in the seedling stage like in the seedling stage he would do major culling and I was always a big opponent of that because I found that like a lot of the slower growing stuff can be just as amazing a keeper's for different reasons you know but for a while that that was in cannabis and still kind of is a common thought that if it's weak as a seedling cull it cull it well I mean there's nothing wrong with that in in in a certain aspect but then it's just making it harder to find what you want because you're trying to guarantee that it's going to be in a strong and vigorous plant exactly and if there's one thing we know about cannabis is that like the weak the weak shitty ones sometimes have a tendency of being like the market's favorite yeah og kush I can't even believe that wasn't culled at the beginning just to how floppy lint and it has so many traits that are that are hard hard to grow I mean let's talk about you know do you know the thing that I will put this number one all time I can't believe it was culled the quays oh yeah yeah the quays the wild one how how can you grow something that takes that long and every bud is like a tiny fingernail sized fucking calyx ripper yeah and it becomes one of the more famous strains in holland uh that was a labor of love because there's a bunch of people that would look at that halfway through and be like what a mess death so I got phenos like that or expressions like that from alaskan ice seeds that I purchased from uh seed madness I want to say in the UK um yeah eight spit out phenos like that and they were immediately culled like I didn't think anything of it was before I had ever seen or run the quays yeah you would just kill it you'd be like this is super fucked this is the worst thing ever this is horrible this is like this yeah this is fucking ridiculous so you just kill it you know and that's actually what neville did to about half his hay seeds that popped yeah they were so sparse and fucked up that he didn't realize what he had and he culled them and then he smoked it uh and then yeah somebody was saying og kb og kb is an excellent example of something that would never make a production model yeah super slow takes forever to veg doesn't yield that much you know all that and so I always think of tomatoes right because there's been this heirloom tomato sort of renaissance in America um but when people are when like you go to the grocery store you see lots of delicious vegetables or whatever but tomatoes are bread for size and weight and color and to not rot and to not slip and flavors way down there so the tomatoes that get stuffed into most people's grocery stores are like big money making watery it's like all the production values are paramount yeah and the part where it's delicious and it tastes good and has the flavors that we want like we can't force them to do that which is why a lot of people think store-bought tomatoes suck yeah that's why I stick with carry tomatoes so but what I mean by that well yeah but what I mean by that is that like as cannabis goes into a production model and they start looking at square footage and cost and yield and this and that and everything else there could be very different pressures put on what strains make it to the public yeah the og would never have made it the og kb would never have made it the quay the you know the quays would never have made it like there's a lot of varieties out there for one reason or another that wouldn't fit somebody's production model yeah I was always surprised when cookie showed up like the form cut because it was so low yielding like so so low yielding compared to what was typically going around even even most og cushions had been they had figured them out to make them yield the cookies was just so low yielding I was shocked that it ever got commercial viability viability I don't think it would have without I mean there was an aspect where prices were starting to fall yeah and and Instagram was young and it was like a perfect moment where it gained a bunch of popularity and then it sold for high dollars so it was almost kind of like the same thing with kush right like and our buddy resin it's like sure you might not get as much weight as you were getting off other things until you figured it out but if you were selling it for seven grand a pound you really didn't care yeah you know there was some there was some like oh I can get lower yields off this baked into it yeah you know but and it's still yeah makes way more money than otherwise right and so there's an aspect now where it's like yeah biomass people are looking for like you know like weight on you know wet weight how much I can extract what's my yield what's my this where the previous selection process in cannabis was entirely consumer based yeah right almost all these fads needed a bunch of people at the other end willing to buy it for top dollar yeah that's what drove the purple craze that's what drove sour that's why sour was the best-selling lead in America was because there was this massive corridor on the east coast that this couldn't get enough of it yeah right yeah it became part of the culture it became part of the culture you know and then kush had its whole moment in southern california and elsewhere you know and then cookies was the bay and then you know and you have skittles winning all these awards and stuff so a lot of that stuff is I mean we used to joke when we first got the real skittles where it was like you'd start vegging next year's gap now yeah I bet you know because it was like oh let's give it a good six month veg and it'll be three feet tall yeah I remember the first time my buddy I had a good friend of mine that got skittles kind of before it was it was named that as much and he grew these plants he laid county beautiful sun 400 gallon pots you know all organic really nice and he called me up all panicked and wanted me to come out and I was like walking this was like back in the trees era so I'm walking through he has sat diesels and green cracks and you know different things and they're all you know nine ten feet tall trellised out you know all that and then you walk through this section and there's like five skittles and they're like come up to like my waist yeah I bet that's and they're all wide and like little chunks and his buddy was like oh I'll give you like four times as much but you're looking at these like tiny little runts they were all started at the same time yeah and he thought he was fucking up yeah he just didn't realize that it grew eight times as slow as anything else yeah you know and so there's that aspect too where it was like skittles would never pass any kind of production model skittles looks like they've got a goddamn disease but skittles is ugly as flour for the most part you know which is fine I don't mind I am totally a pre cookie person so I'm fine with ugly flour that works good but you know it's very slow growing it's a bit mold prone you know but none of that mattered when it was winning a bunch of awards for extraction exactly because you're just testing the extract and the hash was fired and that's that was my point about the potency aspect too it's like yeah I mean like it used to be a major deal that if the flour wasn't potent but that's not such a deal breaker anymore with the extract market thriving no I mean in fact I'll you know I was joking with you about citrus and it was it was a little I get that me saying citrus gave you a bunch of pads because there's a bunch of kinds of citrus and citrus for people that don't know also tends to breed fairly dominant yes you know orange things a lot of time pass orange grapefruit grapefruit lemon lemon that kind of thing right it's a pretty dominant turf um you know but a lot of times those um those citrus cuts are pretty moderate to mild potency yeah there's not really a lot of ones that test very high or by themselves are particularly potent and so I almost think that like tangy came along at a perfect time because it was like a big skunk plant here I am shouting out DNA or whatever but it was a big citrus skunk plant at a time when a lot of people had forgotten about citrus because it was so unpopular yeah coincided right with the extraction movement and that citrus turp passed where at the time a lot of other turps kind of ended up tasting like axle grease and it also was not named Cali oh no most importantly some people were like oh it's is yeah it's not named Cali oh and so and so I really I don't know if it would have caught on without that BHO era being timed right then when people were getting nails and dab kit and all the different little tools and accoutre months that went along with it you know yeah um and then it's like you take something that's like 15 percent THC and not that potent but if you extract it and it's 80% well now okay now we're somewhere yeah it might not be a long lasting high but it'll get you high I know there's something and we can keep talking about this but I know there's something that people wanted you to cover and it's something that we missed last time or two times ago and it was the drying tech oh man well let me uh I'll talk about that let me just say because people are throwing in calio so in that big hunt that we were doing um down south or whatever uh I ran a number of CSIs calio hybrids and I was actually amazed at how sativa it read yeah it really it really did like even things that were pretty indica that I thought would be would lean they were big tall branchy orange smelling you know yeah grandpa weed looking uh phenos and stuff like that so it was it was a lot more in different hybrids it was a lot more sativa than I was expecting yeah right oh I'll say that and calio went through periods where it became so unpopular it was almost unsellable yes yes I it's the only weed well a type of calio is the only weed someone ever brought back to me and said not not this didn't get me high yeah and there's an aspect with almost with a lot of very citrusy weed that's like that where people find the high to be some some people find the high to be fleeting or super short-lived or they just develop a tolerance to it after two or three days um you know and uh and other people are fine with it but there is a percentage of people that develop a tolerance and find it boring yeah and there's definitely a difference someone said cleaner there's definitely a difference in citrus there are some plants that are like sweet citrus that have almost a creaminess to them yeah and then there's ones that smell like you just sprayed orange cleaner in your mouth yes very astringent and orange just pissed orange or a lemon you know something like bitch is very like astringent and weird and and like you sucked on a chemical you know yeah I hate that that long lingering mouth coating lemon but like lemon g and lemon tree uh can't stand that oh you just burn out I I mean I'm one of those people I burn out like it's fine to have it in rotation but if I was stuck with it as my only weed for a month I would be so bummed I I get yeah I don't even put it in rotation I don't like the tip flavor at all and but there was a moment where with BHO and certain things when that was super popular before rosin was really hitting that those citrus turps came through really clean and clear a lot of people made a lot of money off fucking lemon g in Ohio yeah lemon g and and the tangy I mean tangy sort of rocketed DNA to being super busy for four or five years after that cracked it yeah I mean you know whatever whatever whatever combination yeah a Crockett you know so um as far as drying tech man that's a uh that's a big subject but I could chat about it or whatever yeah this is your specialty man I will say that um I will say that like you know there's a lot of people that throw a lot of stuff out there as far as like what's drying tech and I think there's a lot of like copycat stuff out there yeah so for me um because I've always been a smoker uh I was always interested in making sure my weed came out nice yes right and curing it you know a lot of times people put an enormous amount of of uh weight on what they feed their plant and all that and like all these different environmental factors and those those things can all throw in but if you don't cure it the right way um a lot of that gets overwhelmed yes you know and so there's an aspect where there's no point in my career really really where I was competing on scale there was always way bigger people than me so I always tried to make sure even if there was a flood up in my neck of the woods that my weed was just good enough to go yeah right like some of it's gonna move yeah it should be mine yeah you know what I mean and so that's damn right and and so as a result of that you had to and then on top of that too it's like coming from like a my own perspective is like I never grew my head stash super separate too much so like I needed it all to be good yeah in that regard people are saying let's hear the dry tech well there's like but it's it's just like the breeding tech or whatever right there's like there's goals like what are you trying to do right and so one of the things I had to figure out was that and this is kind of what like separately led to curing is that there's this thing up here that we use now it's permanent but there's this thing we used to call that uh called the flood and the flood used to be november december january and it was it was way too hard to sell earth okay it's because you know people would go on vacation people would go to see their families it's around the holidays some people in Hawaii some people are back home with grandma and if enough links on those chains disappear people end up sitting on stuff yeah and then people figured out that there was a dry spell in spring and so if you were if you were smart you would hold on to most of your stuff until spring when it would be both much easier and much more loop higher price yeah higher price right so that was good so is the flood happening this year this year the flood is the last few years the flood has seemingly never stopped we are yeah we are living in water world there's been no receding there's been no price spiking going on it has been at lannis man this is this is yes this is the ice caps melting as far as pricing goes on the west coast so but what happened is is that you ended up needing to figure out like people realized that if they trimmed all their weed in in fall it both cost a bunch of money because you had to pay the trimmers and then for the most part unless you were really careful about how you stored it your weed was worse in spring when you had to when you had to sell yeah and then sometimes you're you were growing enough that like you weren't even with the size trim crew you're going to have it was going to take you a while to even get to that weed yeah so you had to be able to dry and cure it right in a way that it stayed nice yeah for a period of time for a variety of reasons yeah right and then there's an aspect where you can always like if you it's basically like you get one shot to do it the right way and you can like adapt along the way but if you fuck up too bad you've just ruined it for that round yeah so i know that's like a i haven't really said anything about the tech but there's like a a reasoning behind it of how you get there right so and for people that aren't growers that are listening i'm sorry if you're bored or whatever but because it's about to get a little specific but um basically what i what about the way i look at it is that when you're drying weed i like to either cut the plant down whole or chop it into chunks yeah okay relatively relatively big chunks okay someone's just said oh teach me your ways in an eight by four so if you're worried about temps or you're worried about water loss or you're a little extra dry you can leave it in bigger pieces yeah because those pieces will hold more moisture because there's a lot of moisture in the stem if you have really good control over your environment you can chop them into smaller mid-sized pieces and hang them that way um and i just hang them up um people can you can use hangers you can use netting uh you can use you know just a variety of things that allows you to click create lines or walls is basically how it boils down to and i leave all the water leaf only yeah 100 i don't take off any water leaf and the reason for that is that the things that fuck up your buds are um are uh basically air heat and light yeah right those are the things that start to oxidize your weed and start to mess it up okay so what all that fan leaves do is that they fold down over the flower and they essentially like if you have fans for air movement and stuff like that they're generally blowing on the fan leaves not on directly on your flower yeah and it's making your flower darker yeah right so it's protecting it from wind it's protecting it from from light it's protecting it from the various things that might degrade it and as your plant starts to dry it'll suck that moisture from all those from all those leaves into itself yes and that's kind of what you're trying to do is you're trying to get you're trying to get um how do you put it you're trying to slowly sweat out enough moisture got enough chlorophyll right so you want this to be a slow process so you want it to be a slow process so i see all kinds of things where people talk about 60 60 you know 60 degrees and 60 humidity for two weeks uh i do disagree on that a little bit um i think the 60 humidity is fine um but i think that that's actually like a little too cold yeah you know and it really slows down uh transpiration at times i like it i think the 60s is fine i like i like uh you know mid 60s in anywhere really realistically speaking from mid 60s to low 70s you're pretty safe yeah you know in my opinion like there's ideal and then there's like what you're going to deal with and then there's an aspect of like um there's a there's an aspect of uh when you're hanging it the first three or four days a whole bunch of water is going to flow out of those plants yeah so depending on how much weed you have and how much space it is like it doesn't really matter if you have a stuffed four by eight or you have a stuffed big garage or you have a stuffed warehouse or whatever whatever size it is if it's stuffed um you know it can be really hard to have enough dehumidification yeah in order to pull that much water out of it so a lot of people lose control or whatever like and a lot of dehums don't even like to work at 60 degrees either yeah so having them a bit warmer really helps but that's one thing people should all look at is that there's a bunch of dehumidifiers if you don't have a low grain refrigerant dehum you probably don't have a dehum that's suitable for drying yeah and most dehums are rated for a certain temperature which is quite warm and a certain humidity which is quite hot and you should look at like where their operating temperature is right so if the dehum says it stops operating at 58 degrees yeah don't run your room at 60 yeah it's too close to it just not working you should probably run it at 70 and give your dehum a chance to work right yeah so but if you have a low grain refrigerant dehum um that it'll work at those temps so there's basically a mode where it's like you're just trying to make sure your weed doesn't mold and you get that humidity you're trying to keep it cool and you're trying to get that humidity out of there yeah some people vent you know some people literally exhaust air and bring in fresh air because that's like if the temperatures and outside or fine or whatever that's great yeah some people try to do with a combination of air conditioners and dehums but you're basically trying to keep it somewhere between the mid 60s to low 70s and temp and you know somewhere between ideally 60 percent humidity but don't panic if it's 65 or 70 or even 70 for four or five for the first day or two it should come down but if it doesn't that first day there's so much moisture yeah and depending on how much vegetative material in a small space it could be insane like you were saying yeah I mean it's it's people are talking about dipping it in hydrogen peroxide oh you just don't do that um people are doing that because they're trying to pass testing with various p.m. or biologicals or different stuff like that hydrogen peroxide is um uh is a uh it oxidizes so it's gonna put that on good weed for no reason it's gonna it's gonna oxidize various terps it's gonna oxidize various compounds it's gonna it's gonna lower the quality of your weed you know yeah um so so there's an aspect of and look I mean these are just like people can hit me up later these are just like basic things it's actually kind of hard to just walk through like all the little details of how you would do it yeah but essentially I'm just trying to give you like a range whatever your equipment might be some people might be able to use outside air some people might be able to use dehumidifiers and air conditioners maybe even dehumidifiers and heaters depending on where they live and what time of year it is but you're just trying to keep the plant in that range and after three or four days your plant's gonna shrink a bunch yeah right and once it shrinks a bunch then you're in a mode where you're gonna start to see um most of that water is gone and it should be a lot easier for you to moderate your drying room yeah right like as long as as long as you have the equipment in place that's gonna make it work right you're not really battling in that middle section yeah right so you're just trying to keep it at those same temps and now another three or four days passes right and now you're in the third stage stage of drying which is actually kind of weird because you risk your plants getting too dry but if you take them down often after six or seven days they're still got too much moisture in the stem and you try to bin them up or bag them up and that sweats right out yeah it's a lot more work yeah right so I like to go 10 or 14 days on the line yeah if I'm doing it commercially it's usually 10 or 12 of them doing it for myself it's usually more like 14 you know uh but you might actually have I have humidifiers where sometimes I add moisture bad back into my room yeah sometimes it might be fall and it might have not rained in months and it might be bone dry and 20 humidity outside and your ac is removing some moisture and so is your whatever sometimes you turn off all your d-humps yeah right sometimes you turn off your fans um and because you're just trying to conserve that moisture sometimes and you're just trying to get through that next three or four days to let the chlorophyll on the moisture slowly sweat out yeah and if it's too dry just your stuff will start to get crisp yeah right so you're you're going low and slow some people just want to say just leave it at 60 and 60 like the jungle boys or some shit and you just like let it be I don't actually I think that there's like three distinct stages and if you treat them different it's a little easier to deal with well 60 60 can't work for all types of butt densities either like I mean it's got to be some range there's a lot of copycat stuff in there so I'm just kind of trying to give generals and maybe I'm talking fast because it's kind of a big subject or whatever but and if you have if you have the right environment um if you have the right environment like you can actually you could you can keep it three weeks four weeks you know it's not like yeah you know you can actually I mean with the right outside and the right inside you can leave it up there for a while if you wanted to I don't tend to like to because I often have to refill it or I just find that the next stage I can actually get a lot more control doing it what I do next so this is where a lot of people fuck it up in my opinion right here right I don't think I've like talked about anything too revolutionary yet or any shit like no no um but here's where it's a mess is that there's an aspect where after 10 or 11 days like people tend to think that they need to store their weed at a consistency that's perfect for smoke yeah and you actually probably don't want to store it at that you probably want to store it like a little bit too moist yeah for smoke right and so what you're what I end up doing is at that point like I think that's where the cure begins right and a lot of people think you cure in jars you actually cure on the stem okay if you take it off the stem you're not curing okay why is that because most curing and like if you talk to tobacco farm people or whatever like they'll talk about this all day or you know they grow tobacco for cigars or different things there's an interplay between the stem and the leaf yeah the stem and the flower right and the plant can as long as it's all connected the plant can move that moisture around itself yeah right so what I tend to do is that when it comes time I will take like a bunch of like literally like a store like grocery style paper bags yeah and you open it up and at that point you got to feel when you're about to seal something up you got to think like you know how like osmosis and like like aromas and moisture and all that will try to equalize yeah so at that point I've got a bunch of fan leaves and this is somebody was mentioning earlier when you do it that way bucking is a bitch it is when you buck before I put my stuff in there I take most of the no sweet leaf but I take most of the big leaf off yeah and then I chop it into chunks that fit into like the I'm not holding my hands open the right way but I chop it into chunks that fit into the paper bag yeah you know so think about how long a paper bag is and they're about that size yeah and then you start stacking it with things that have most not all but most of the family removed and left on the stem but chopped into chunks that fit yeah and then that that bin can you that that paper bag can usually hold between I don't know 400 and 600 700 grams okay okay so then you fold it over right and you put it into a contractor bag mm-hmm now this might not sound too crazy but what it does is that you then fill that contractor bag with say depending on how tall the contractor is like six or nine backs okay okay and so here's here's where a bunch of people fuck it up in my opinion right is that it is most people when they take it down off the line they just throw it as is into a into a plastic bin yeah build the bin shut the bin that's a super common way right well the reason why I don't like that is because what happens is is you have all that extra stem and you have all that extra fan leaf right yeah and that shit smells like hey yeah it really does that's the stuff that smells like chlorophyll that's the stuff that smells green that's the stuff that has all the aromas that you don't want and when you put a bunch of weed or anything into a sealed container a lot of times all that aroma tries to equalize itself yeah so you're gonna send that aroma all the way through your week yeah right so by picking off most of the big fan leaves and then by chopping the excess stem off and just leaving it on stem chunks that are big enough to fit in the bag you remove most of that and so the vast majority of what's in that paper bag is either sweet leaf or flour yeah with some associated stem right yeah and then you fill that thing up and you turn it over and you put it in there okay so here's where it's also different than bin tech yeah right in a bin most people use like the black and yellow totes right yeah they're like 25 or 30 gallons okay yeah so you fill one of those up and you put a lid on and there's nowhere for it to breathe and it's two feet of cannabis weighing down on the bottom yeah so what is that bot what is that bottom third like it's got weight pushing down on it it's got moisture pushing down on it there's nowhere for it to breathe right so if you put like six or nine paper bags into a contractor right um they uh they stand they hold their shape yep right they hold their shape so you never have a few thousand grams weighing down on the bottom yeah there is there you know what I'm saying yeah you know because they stack and that paper holds its shape and the paper okay um the paper actually is porous yes it's not like a bin so instead of a bin where you have two or three or four pounds you know of of weeds stuffed into a bin and then seal then there's no breathability yeah all those bags get to breathe yeah and that breathing is what brings the moisture slowly from the center to the outside okay right so then you can you can put it in there right and and you can tie it off and if you did it just the right way it'll stay stable like that for straight up weeks to months oh yeah hundred percent okay and I've done I've done like experiments with friends or whatever where like you know you trim some up within a few weeks yeah and two months later you go back and all the stuff that was still in the paper bags has a bunch of turps yeah where the stuff that got trimmed has started to oxidize right and so there's an aspect there where the reason why we came to this is that for one you don't end up with a million bins that reek that you have to sterilize and clean all the time you end up with like super light contractor bags and paper bags yeah and let's say you seal up the contractor bag and it like you open it up and you fucked up and you were a little too fast and it's a little too moist right you can then just open and leave the contractor bag open yeah right then if it's if you really fucked up you might have to take those bags out of the contractor yeah but then they all breathe yeah so you can open them up right and then if you really messed up and you were too aggressive about it and you feel down there and it feels wet and damp and uncomfortable right yeah you can actually take an empty paper bag and your full one and you can dump it in there and now the bottom is the top yeah right you just fluffed it essentially and you can do that one by one to all of them that's only if you screw up and you realize that after you've sealed it up for a day it's not as stable as you want it to be there was too much moisture in there and it actually got re-wet yeah and you get up to the moisture level you want you can seal it back up and you can put it in there and you know I've had a situation where like a lot of times in outdoor season in the fall it took us quite a while to get through all the work yeah so you had to store it in such a way that you could you know you you would you would keep the quality yeah and that definitely made it all the way to our parties and shit because I remember smoking that you know after a fact and it was still just amazing oh that first year especially yeah Pip and myself and and home you know the friends like we went and all that weed and those in those bags and jars we pulled out of that's why most of it was untrimmed yeah we're partially trimmed we just pulled it out of the bags just like that tech and it had been sitting in there for two months yeah and most of our close friends to be perfectly honest uh in even in our circle and our discord and stuff like that that have tried this method keep using it there's ways you can refine it I kind of skimmed over a certain parts but because there's depth and there's things that can come up but as far as like a modular small the large-scale way right a lot of times people they talk about curing in turkey bags or curing in the jar you're actually not really curing you're fermenting yes yeah they're shaking gas when people talk about burping that's not actually cure you know what makes it fermenting as opposed to curing there's this there's this I mean it's like I don't want to I don't want to misspeak and have somebody jump in that knows more than me about it but but but but in general what it boils down to is there's some acts there's some interplay between each of the flowers being connected to the stem yeah that doesn't mean you can't put it in a jar and it improves over the first few weeks on the jar too I'm just saying that like a lot of times people think they remove it from all they remove it from the stem way too fast yeah and like if you let that that few weeks I would even tell people like once you put it in that contractor just leave it alone for a week yeah leave it alone for 10 days and then go back to it and then trim it and we've had we've had a bunch of friends that have tried it right and they all keep using it yeah and they all feel like it improved their personal smoke yeah yeah right dig it that's why I wanted you to tell it it's important so so yeah there's an aspect and there's there's there's parts of it where you know like I said I glossed over certain things because it's kind of long and involved and then you could ask a bunch of detailed questions and stuff that went on and I wasn't trying to like drown people and but anybody can reach out about it because I want people to have better weed and there it is true low and slow but I definitely think there's drying and there's curing and then there's jarring and a lot of people just dry and jar yeah and they miss that middle part yep and doesn't mean your weed's not good I'm not dissing your weed I'm just saying that like I found you know for a lot of the things that I grow that I get better flavor profiles when you give that plant a week or 10 days or two weeks to interplay between the stem and the flower and back and forth and all that and cure in a big pile into itself yeah you know because back in the day when things moved really fast a lot of times people would I just smoke some in New York people would they would just dry weed as fast as they could get it to market yep and it would have a little bit of that chlorophyll tang I had somebody try to tell me it was like they only smoke it like that because after two weeks the live terpenes fade oh okay and I was like yeah I've smoked plenty of weed that was dried fast for commercial purposes I get it you know like yeah yeah you know and so yeah people can you know there yeah most people skip curing they go from right from drying you know right from drying to jarring right from jarring right from drying to packaging you know yeah and and this tech it's like it's really easy it's all that stuff is really available it's nothing special it doesn't take up a ton of space in your house you can condense you can reuse the the the paper bags multiple times if you treat them right you know you can shove a ton of them into one or two contractors it's light as a feather you know it's modular it's easy it can fit in a closet it can fit in a garage it can they can stack on top of each other because and and there's one thing like and you pointed out sometimes you might need to fluff it but it's okay because not so it's a professional fluffer yeah indeed I've been trying to get that joke in for like five minutes sometimes you need to go sometimes you need to make you know from bottom to top you need to really just change up what's going on um and you know that's the thing is it's like when you do it perfect you don't have to do any of that I just wanted to go through like because it is weird and we have close friends of ours that when we first when I first showed them how to do it they thought they were putting it away too wet yeah and a lot of times they don't realize that it stores really well like that um but then sometimes it does get too wet like it gets a little mushy or it's scary wet or whatever and you need to let it breathe and so there's a variety of ways you can let it breathe and um you know this is like I just don't I don't like plastic bins for a lot they don't breathe at all and so what happens what happens in anaerobic environments yeah yeah it just creates stale air and moisture hanging and different times different kinds of processes happen in low oxygen versus higher oxygen environments yeah yeah you know and so there's an there's an aspect of that where it's like so even if you screw up a few times there's like various ways you can get out of panic mode yeah sometimes all I had to do was just open the top of my contractor and leave it in the living room for you know a night or half a day and all of a sudden the excess moisture had breathed and escaped you know those paper bags are dry so like they will absorb a little bit of excess moisture without becoming damp you know so that helps too uh and uh you know there's there's just it just keeps the weight because that's what you don't want is you don't want pressure and low oxygen and you know you want things to be able to breathe you want things to be able to like slowly take that last bit of moisture out from the center of the buds and from the center of the stems and bring it out into the flower yeah and I think you know your your weed burns better you know yeah your weed burns better it tastes better I've grown a lot of strains over a long period of time and I have a lot of repeats and so you know you you grow it one way for a while and you're like oh I killed it and you grow this other way and you you don't get the trim you don't get the dry right and then you're like oh I fucked it up yeah now it's not as good now my weed that's like three months old still burns a little nicer than this weed that I just got fresh yeah and so you you know and then your friends do that too and then you have feedback loops and then you know and then you you go through and so there's a lot of things people can get all tech and you can go to like moisture in the buds and higher meters I'm giving you like hill tech I'm giving you like observational tech that's basically by experience and by feel and then you have some basic ground rules on when not to panic about it yeah right and you know we have a buddy too that like is people were talking about elevation earlier as well I mean we have a we have a good friend of ours that we worked through it and he lives in very high elevation and his weed dried way too fast yeah way way too fast and we were able to really slow it down and get cures and he's ecstatic good yeah I remember so I'm not saying it's like this is like the be all end all I'm just saying that it's worked for me and my friends for a long period of time it's an excellent way to cure weed we I did bring a bunch of weed to the Cannaluminati parties dried because the Cannaluminati parties were in December yeah most of that weed came down in October or November so it was one to two months old yeah by the time that you guys got old of it yeah and all the weed that I brought whether it was trimmed or untrimmed all went through that whole process yeah and I really do think it brings out quality it's definitely a way to like not screw it up at the end yeah like as far as far as our group goes like it seems like everybody kind of contributes one some more than one but everybody kind of brings one major thing to the table and when I think a not so his drying tech is the one thing I think he's brought to the table that's changed it for our group as a whole so that's why I wanted to bring it up because this is a lot of skilled people in our group and and if it's if it's changing their minds it might be something other people are into too yeah and there's and you know there's there's there's patterns to it or whatever and there's ways you can adapt it here and there and so there's I don't know I just I've just found to be really flexible and I haven't found anything that gives me better quality weed it's not done at all on the commercial market and I think the commercial market suffers for it you know the the whole curing aspect and the whole treating it nice for a bit that seems to be you know shoved away to efficiency yeah and then if you the problem is if you mess it up you can always rehydrate weed but it's never the same as if you dried it low and slow and got it sticky if you can get it a certain stickiness and a certain ratio it can stay good like that for a really long time and if you get it overly dry which a lot of people used to do and then they'd re moisten for sale it'll be all right for a week or two but not that long no and then it'll go back to being a lot a lot blander yeah you know so if you do it the right way you can get like a weird sponginess that has enough give to have some moisture in it and but enough you know but but it's really well cured yeah and not so much that it just goes poof in your hand yeah if you hear crunching that's not that great you don't want to hear crunching you know I mean the you know it'll probably still get you high but a lot of delicate a lot of delicate terpenes orange peels in the sack all that shit that's all failure yeah I mean I'm not saying it doesn't work don't get me wrong but I'm saying like your weed is never as good if you have to rehydrate it if you have to rehydrate it you didn't store it the right way yeah you know you know yeah people saying this didn't it didn't work at scale on his 30 lighter that's ridiculous I mean I like you know I mean I did it with like when Mendo first went legal and we were allowed 10,000 square feet yeah which is far larger than a 30 lighter you know yeah it's small by today's standards right now but still you know it's it's it's a chunk of pounds yeah so it works you know and then on top of this too it's really easy to do this at a small scale for everybody that's just trying to smoke better weed yeah totally you know if you might only have you might only have one or two or three contractors or something yeah you know if you're just growing for your personal smoke and it's for you or whatever like then it's really easy to like baby it and then you'll really see yeah for sure you know and there might be a time too when people want to experiment with it or whatever where like they get to a point where you know you might end up like if especially if it's just for you you might end up like trimming some and then leave half the bag cured and super nice and a cool spot that's dry yeah and go check on your weed a month later and see if you like the weed in your jar better or see if you like the the flower you just broke off the branch and rolled a joint with you might be surprised yeah I know I know Bodie has this perfect room um or did at his house that was like a humidor and because where he lived is just that perfect oh yeah no he said he's there's some weed in there from like a long time years yeah and and it's all hanging and it's on the branch and you know like I've noticed even with seeds like it's they're stored in their bud they last longer it's like a natural protection for it so you know I think there's a lot of good aspects even if you're just making seeds and drying seeds there's a lot of good aspects to keeping it on the branch oh we used to bury our seed and in uh 55 gallon drums and it would all be on the cola yeah you wouldn't de-seed it you would store it you know on a dry cola yeah it makes it great it makes great storage makes great storage that they're not they're not rubbing up against each other I mean a lot of people don't know this right but uh you know Caleb and I were just talking about it where like that tiger stripe rubs off oh yeah it's it's a thin layer it's not it's it's more like a super thin tight fitting skin shell than it is like an embossed feature of a hard shell so if you people that start people that like hand harvest their seeds and all that and they treat them really lightly they could end up getting all these dark tiger stripes you start putting them through like a blower and sifting them really nice and doing all this extra work to make sure people get perfect seeds and all of a sudden you could end up with some pale seeds that were dark before yeah because they lost their tiger stripe because it just frictioned off it's a thin um almost transparent skin with dark stripes so yeah I watched it come off seeds constantly yeah and a lot of us use blowers that that make a lot of seed so yeah and what's interesting is I was actually just talking the last few weeks to uh to a Jamaican who was telling me about how they store seeds and they can't bury them they store them in in in big 55 gallon drums in Jamaica and they store them basically either on butt or in the shake that makes sense even in the shape because it acts like a natural insulation it protects it from the heat and it works way they'd rather have a big drum full of shake and seed than a big or you know buds in seed than a big thing just full of seed because it'll die someone asked is it a more indicative trait tiger stripes I've noticed it a lot in afghanis and in things the bigger seeds that I see typically from afghanis but it's not a a general trait you can apply like that one of the but never mind go on no as you can say a lot of the land race like africans and and malays they tend to be smaller black seeds yeah and what I've noticed it also depends on what the mother was right so um you know you uh if your you know if your seeds are forming in some kind of equatorial sativa they're going to tend to be smaller because the flower clusters and the calyxes they're forming in are also small yeah and it depends on when it's pollinated and where on the plant it's pollinated how big the seed there's so many things that go into factors but like the tiger striping you don't see it a ton in traditional land race uh narrow leaf plants and there was an aspect where if there was for a long time there was a misnomer among the community where you know if it wasn't tiger striped enough that means you didn't let it go to full maturity and you're trying to sell young or immature seeds or you were trying to cheat a bit or whatever um and so there's a thing with seeds where people are very visual yeah and you know we have you know we have friends or whatever that like won't sell the pale ones even though they get crazy germ rates on them yeah I kept a lot of lines off the market that were just lights or lost their stripes in the blower they just kept them off the market because I knew it'd be more of a pain in the ass to explain all that and teach every single person then to do that oh my god color-coded seeds if you go to if you go to greenhouses sites on their accomplishments the color-coded seeds is one of the top I don't go to greenhouses site although I will say I did before I before I diss them too hard that when I was traveling in the 90s to holland a bunch um they had a great coffee shop in the 90s yeah oh and he just took himself out for whatever reason see if we get him back in hold on where is he where is he what the hell let's see not maybe he uh maybe he got a phone call there he is in bite see if we can get him back on so yeah we're almost done with the show anyways but um let's see if we can get him back on before we shut it down anyway while I have you guys here and not just not here um don't forget to sign up for the breeder syndicate patreon uh we all hang out there um I do sales specifically for the patreon we've had a few like good jumps on sales to that uh our our credit card processing thing I think mesh has like gone down for everyone so uh right now um we have venmo cash app shit like that but it's not correct connected directly to the site so just let me know if you want to purchase like that I'm leaving the 40% off um going until I get my merchant account back just so people that have to send in money or whatever it's not as big of a thing to ask so it's invisible 40 for the code not so dog is unable to join well I guess uh I guess we'll call this the night I mean yeah um thanks a lot everyone for coming back coming to hang out tonight um hopefully you uh got something out of the whole breeding aspect of that the whole point was to try to explain to you um why okay someone's requesting to come into live video I know who that is hold on let me block this idiot stupid ass um yeah thanks for showing up guys uh go check out the the breeder syndicate patreon go to google type and breeders you get a syndicate patreon oh wait hold on hold on here he made it back for the end he made it back for the end I think there you go there he is I mean I I started talking shit about greenhouse and all of a sudden I was banned from the internet yeah that was crazy so let's finish it up we're right there at the two hours I saw you I tried kept trying to join but it kept telling me to fuck off so yeah I don't know what the deal is but yeah I mean uh before I uh maybe it'll cut me off again I uh I did enjoy my time going to greenhouse I did like it when shanti and neville sold seeds and weed there um I you know I don't really appreciate what happened after or whatever but um we covered a bunch of stuff we just tried to give an idea of like what your thoughts could be on like a multi-stage breeding project we tried to go over what it would look like um breeding tech random bullshit so I appreciate everybody that's staying with us yeah already I got kicked it's all good yeah um breeder syndicate patreon go google that come join us uh write seeds dot com for all your feminized reversal spray if you want to make fem seeds like we talked about tonight all the instructions are up there and it's 40 off right now using code invisible 40 we have some cool stuff coming up soon so be sure to check it out we'll have these up on all of the podcast platforms very shortly probably in the next two hours it'll be up on youtube as well as soundcloud itunes all that shit so yeah we hope you enjoyed it and you can always reach out to me on either discord or on ig for follow-up questions or anything like that and always send us your ideas and your thoughts about what you want to hear and what you want to talk about so you know thank you once again for your friday night as always yep thank you everyone peace good night