 Hello everybody. If it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my new constant co-host and forever companion. It's Tyler. What's up, buddy? How you doing? Hey, man. Good to be here. Good to have you. Good to have you Also joining us this week. Very happy to have him back on the show. Mr. Gary Percival. How you doing, sir? Um, good. Thank you. Thank you for having us absolutely and The today we are going to be talking cities of sigmar Getting into cities in 3.0 an army. I'm very excited about an army. I am taking to a tournament Here in just a couple weeks an army. I've been doing some tournament practice with So I feel like I'm ready to talk about this one. I'm excited All right. Yeah. Yeah, it's Dye has been cast my friend. Yep Got it done. All right. Good to hear. I got it. It's like I've gotten in several test games now and I was feeling better about it We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it when we get to the section For now Let's start with the news Yes That would be my cue Rumor engine It's a 40k thing. It is a 40k thing. Who cares next? Yeah Yeah Probably astromilitarm or Yeah, I hope like a new tank. It'd be cool. I hope they have a new tank They've had the same tank since I played for this as I started playing 40k in the late 90s for the basic chimera so Yeah Cool new tank Yep Armies on parades you had added that you want to talk a little bit about that. I do I did and I do Uh, so the armies on parade they confirmed it to be back Uh excited that it is back. It is going for both an online and an in-store option this year But really that means it's online again So like I appreciate you trying But it's definitely still online because it's like oh you can you can participate with everybody around the world in this thing Or you can just go to your local store, right? Like, okay got it The whole article was all about online online online, and then there was a little link that was like don't worry soon We'll we'll do the in-store part. It's like, okay. Sure. Why not? Uh, so whatever that's cool. That's good. I don't uh, I I am tempted to do a board for my giants and submit them this year But I keep submitting heavily converted armies that will never win an armies on parade. So there you go. Sure. Yeah Uh, no quick. I want to say something real quick here. Terrier halo says I have liked shared and subscribed is my duty complete Well only in death does duty end but uh, but not even in death. I guess there's duty end But yes, everybody else should be like terrier halo and and do all of those things hit that like Subscribe do all those fun things. All right. Keep going Yeah Yeah, so November 20th this year Great day award show for armies of charade this year. Gary. Do you have any interest in this? Never really been my thing. Uh, yeah Not only painted the day before or tournament, but alone For That's cool purposes only I might do the odd model Yeah Yeah, definitely Yeah, they had three major categories best of 40 k best of sigmar and best of the rest so pretty straightforward But yeah, we had some amazing Submissions last time. I remember seeing all of the armies on parade floating around twitter last year is pretty incredible Yeah, I love it. The problem is it's really hard to shoot an army right like I I have this this the photography setup to shoot a model Right. I don't have the photography setup to capture a two by two Display board with a full army displayed with a background. You know what I mean? Like that's Yeah, I don't know what kind of setups these people have But I appreciate that they have that kind of uh that they apparently have the sears photography studio in their house And then the photoshop skills to knock everything out and and just you know get rocket and rolling, but right You know like I want to see somebody I want to see the winners be like person who took a picture of their board and their stuff on their kitchen table And you can see like the bottle of oj On the countertop behind them You know like get out of here with this nonsense like okay cool That'd be a good youtube video. I may already be out there. Yeah, I had to Take good photos of your armies in your entire army. Oh, there you go. All right. I'll work on it I'll see what I can do All right, so we had a little teaser article of the upcoming orc war clans battle tome And they mentioned a few things So we don't yet, you know, have a maybe we'll see it go on the sunday preview this week Kind of it's feeling like it was bad to get to that time frame. They said in august. I think for the two new battle tomes And they mentioned one of the sub factions called big yellows. This is one. I think that stood out to everybody where they have a Ability which adds three inches to the range of any of the missile weapons for the big yellows I think oryx not just cruel boys, but big yellows oryx Yeah And so three, you know, so that makes the 12 inch range on the boat boys two shots each suddenly 15 inch range Or 27 inch range on their one shot their long range And but the biggest thing, yeah Very different story very different story this this thing's uh, this thing's gonna get dark quite quick. Yeah But yeah, the thing that stood out everybody was the fact that apparently we are gonna be making boat boys Battle line with the big yellows So get ready potentially for your units of what nine boat boys reinforcing them twice Sure. Yeah, I mean yes, of course that was coming Like if you didn't think that was coming, I don't know what you're doing with your life Like of course that was going to happen right Yeah, I could get pretty tasty. Uh, what was it the venom encrusted weapons? I think which As far as I know is an army-wide ability that they have their whole If you roll a modified six to hit It does the damage characteristic in the form of mortal wounds. So Yeah, boat boys are two damage. So a modified six hit. It's just flat out two mortal wounds. Yep not in addition Yep, and then uh, what's the shaman called splomp call a shaman? It's got a way. I think it's a poison that it can give it I don't think you have to roll for it. Just give a poison to a unit It can turn that six to a five up to do the mortal wounds. Yep. Yeah So What's that guy It also turned into elves then apparently Yes, yes Yeah Illuminous, uh, match will be quite the uh To see with five and six to pop it off everywhere, right Yeah, just everybody like it's just a A constant contest of mortal wounds on five pluses back and forth. Yeah, exactly. It's great What's armor nothing Everybody dies I'm not sure how much the bolt boys. I don't know if you guys I mean, we'll have to see if the new battle team. I know a lot of the storm cast point values are gonna be changing You know, we saw that little image. I think like judicators 200 points For five apparently, but yeah, but you guys know what they are right now bolt boys for three I could I could reach back here and find out but I guess I can look over here in this book that I've handily kept next to myself to reference for cities later But I mean the the answer is it doesn't matter because it's about to change Right, like that's that is legit the answer None of this stuff that's in here actually matters. That's the trick Uh, right now Gosh, where are these idiots? There they are. They're three for 120 Okay So that would be 360 for unit of nine That's kind of looking at some rough math on that If you do the 15 inch range again 12 plus three 18 attacks all that attack with plus one So now that'd be threes and threes If you've got the poisons of fives popping mortal wounds roughly do about 12 mortal wounds And then force around force saves minus one run two damaged flat Uh, or you know nine attacks at 27 inch start range I think it's about that's worth it 360 points It's too many points for for There's too many points for for 18 wounds On like a not much of a save It is a fairly short throw it definitely drops off I mean like to get the real threat range of 27 inches. It's around six mortal wounds and that's yeah for the 360 points But I don't know gary. What do you think about like early space? Well, we know right now that idea of a kind of leaning into a unit of nine ball boys and trying to get all the goodies We at least know about right now Yeah, I'll say the same thing. I'm saying on the stormcast. What's that chat or turn it over three weeks? I I know comments or three right Yeah There could be some rimshot of an item or a little trap or anything that just suddenly makes that kind of Same Even that's all right having to shoot to your army would be quite But you know Absolutely So they'd also mentioned this cruel boys dirty tricks It's like It seemed like kind of like a mount trade, you know work shatter bead type thing that you're going to get access to uh, it's it well, I mean the one that they previewed felt more like a Almost more like a battle tactic type of thing because it's okay It was during the first round of battle your people get plus one to wound right was sort of what was going on there Right, so my guess is you get like one dirty trick and it's probably tied to a round To where you execute it in some way to get more like it's in hand. It's it's their special Enhanced to get more of again. I'm just guessing I've not seen this book nor have I have I Talked to anybody who has so I know nothing about what's in this book yeah It was going to be battle tactic Cross third edition and you know like like 40k have faction specific kind of Missions I'm wondering if that might be a thing that I hope not we all hope not I do not want under any circumstance to see army specific battle tactics battalions or Uh, grand strategies that is a nightmare scenario for me Now I do think some armies will probably play with a battle tactic in some way like that's that's just rule space They're gonna hand somebody some kind of ability to do something with just don't give them their own thing things Right if you want to hand a rule an army a thing that says like Oh in round One if you complete Whatever this named battle tactic you gain a bonus victory point or just if you complete a battle tactic in round four You gain a bonus victory point because of whatever whatever like some construct around that Sure. Okay fine neat You know that's that's just really objective play. That's just the other That's just angle shooting in the same way that giants and augurs angle shoot on objectives Yeah right So I just I don't want to see it It's it is literally the thing I am most trepidatious about leading up to that I have the most trepidation about I suppose the right me the correct way to say that Leading up to the release of these books Right is that they over stuff them Like we already have a complex now base layer meaning stop Yeah Very brief for a bit. Yeah, exactly exactly. Yep All right enough of that. What else we got more when we see the book We'll do the reviews of course when they come out. I wouldn't expect it this sunday. I would expect it the sunday After this sunday, right Okay, so we'll build up to the the big news. Let's talk about we got this little I don't know what it is You had a note here about vanguards. We know the vanguard hunters. We saw an image of a repack Yeah, and apparently we're gonna see quite a few boxes get the aos third edition repack and we had this image leak of The vanguard hunters something of the chasseur's devil god Love it Yes, now we have little symbols Yeah That are like this is the type of attack. So this is a ranged attack and this is a melee attack This is the range of the thing. This is the hit Or sorry, the number of attacks I apologize that see which is easier if it's a hit This is the number of attacks. This is the hit. This is the wound This is the rend a little shield crack and this is the damage little skull crack Cute like super cute Please don't make all war scrolls look like this if this is what you want to include in the Uh in the boxes in the box, right? Because it's just like the scroll that comes in the box And and they don't want to and because it's a physical thing They don't want to pay to translate 50 million different versions of those and have to have a special box. They ship to You know every country Totally fine. I'm get it It's great. Please don't ever put these in a book Or on like a free download pdf. That's all i'm asking. Okay. It doesn't feel like that much That is a very 40k and it was not, you know transpose over into the tones and tell it's just a box art box inlet kind of format just as you say probably keep things Translatable Countries that actually happen to do multiple times like which makes sense because then you'd have to like it would make just I imagine logistically it causes a lot of problems Uh for hello dear uh for the boxes because then if you make a box and you have to translate everything Or if you've got the war scroll line, you know, whatever you've got to put five extra pages in every little booklet Or you've got to keep them all straight of like this is the one that goes to france This is the one that goes to the us, right? You don't want that So they probably just trying to cut down. They were looking like okay Well right now because you know if you if you have uh the war scroll booklet now, you'll be like english french Uh german, you know blah blah blah blah and you'll flip and there'll be like six different versions of it, right? So they knew they could cut down on those six pages in every booklet and so subtract out the cost of six pages times X tens of thousands of boxes we print. Okay. That's tangible savings. It's worth it Right Yeah, I didn't think there'd be a scroll Will not be right Right Yep Yeah, we were talking about last night and that was kind of that conclusion we came to as well So yeah, that's probably all that we're looking at. Yep All right, well probably calm down probably now if I get if I open up that stormcast book and I see these I'm gonna be like no do not want but for now. I'm not worried about it. I think they'll keep to the same format Yep Because the books themselves are already translated into other languages. They have to be vina-cessive Should they save themselves nothing in that format? All right, the biggest news of the week, of course, we have our dragons Booyah We were all over thinking dragon writers. Hey, I'm not giving up the fight I don't I don't think this is all and these are the two dragon princes There are more draconists. Okay I want to see more So What do you guys think? Hey, Gary start with you I don't hate them but the the Pete's dragon faces are making Gary used to a must admit but the poses and the aesthetics are quite like it's just Just the kind of slightly human smiles and frowns are a little Weird sure Yeah, it's not that I hate it. Just it's not what I've seen on a dragon before. It's a bit Yeah, I do like I wish there was a bit more Poseability to them because they do look like they're in very similar kind of great poses. Yeah, but having two If you could have two, I don't know if you can if you could have two in the army and be both kind of you and the same kind of pose, yeah I don't know but you know I do like I do like I'm wondering if I'd do a head swap if I did it tonight Sure. Yeah Yeah, Vince. What do you think? I love them. I think they're great. I really do I I saw some people who aren't big fans of the comments and I get it. I get why you don't They're very much Mufasa and scar. I don't know if you've seen that side-by-side comparison with the the faces, but it feels like almost Like almost completely dead on Now That being said, I'm surprised they did pretty stock dragons I've said for a long time. I didn't think they would really do stock dragons Right, because there's so many other dragons out there. I mean look just like the giants The advantage to these is that if you don't want to buy this kit that's going to certainly be like 175 to 190 us like let's just be honest ourselves right now. Okay They're going to be expensive If I if you didn't want to buy these great Who cares there's like There are so many third party dragons out there that this that this now opens the door to use from 3d printed folks to like reaper dragons to Whatever Um The You know the the only issue I really have is that and I understand why because they're such big pieces But I hate that they have two of the their wings are both in the same pose like one down one up Sure I wish there was some way we could have gotten Both like a different pose with both wings up Okay, right That's ultimately what I want Yeah But I like them. I like their faces. I some people have come down their faces because they do have a sort of puff the magic dragon Look, I actually quite like the look Some people have said they look like the dragons from the dragon prints the animation. It's just funny given the name I also like really like that animation and think it's really great and I think that's a wonderful animated series Uh, so I'm on board for that Uh, I mean scar is pretty cool Uh, the dude because he's you know, they both have the symbol in their chest. So clearly that's the same chest Uh, what I enjoy is you can probably leave off this armor off the the good guy Because because you can see the full arm on the red guy And I guess their story is like this one's pretty nice and he's like mr. Storm cast friend and they gave him some extra toys And the red one is a little more angry. He's still a good guy, but he's a little more angry and a little more Uh, he's been in ger longer. So he's gone a little more. It's gone rogue Right, right. So he but he's still a storm cast guy They're they're both in the storm cast army and they are definitely on 160 male bases Oh, yeah, yeah Do you guys think so, obviously, we know that crondis is going to be Or both will be takeable in storm cast Maybe crondis storm cast only do you think we might see like uh carzai the scarred or to scar as available to any order army I'll tell you what I really hope you want to know what I really hope Yeah, okay. So crondis is probably going to be like storm cast only he feels very storm cast He's wearing storm cast armor, right? Yeah Uh, hail hydro said he's gone rouge not just rogue. I love it. Um The redwood they mentioned that he's very destructive because he's been in ger Could this be the first gold model? Here we go calling it again Like the giants can be taken in every army, right? So it would actually be the first gold model I'm just joking on our ongoing thing. We always say here of like will this be the first gold army? But um, but the scar I could see him being like Order or like he can be taken in any order force or any destruction force Hmm that that does not also include crag knows Or something like that. Oh, sure. Yeah, right That would be neat Um, because he's all because they said he lives in gur and he's gone a little more native, right? Right, right. So be nice to us And Sure, yeah, I think that's absolutely right here like he could just be more dry to like where he's like Oh, he's angry, but he's still you know He's still in the group You know, he hasn't he hasn't like completely turned sides or anything. Yeah, yeah I'm just saying it would be super cool if I could do my giants and a dragon as well as my giants and crag knows So anyways I just want to shove more stuff in destruction. I don't know what to tell you All right, we want to throw any point costs guesses out at this point on these two Absolutely, let's let's do uh, let's just say We're just going to guess one price for both because who knows okay, like It'll probably be like, you know Crandis plus 20 or plus 40 over cars or something like that right exactly So we're going to throw out one points cost All right, gary, where's your flag in the ground? You're the guest you get to guess first How much does how much is it to these costs if you if you're correct on either you win the prize individually? I'm gonna go with 680 Big number tyler All right, so Yeah, they're not gods. That's the god point level. Well, we don't know they might have worse scrolls that do look like gods We'll see So assuming they're not quite god level in the worst scroll all save 580 All right 580 I like it. I'm gonna go with the low one here I'm surprised. I'm the low one on the totem pole. I'm going 520 Okay So, uh, I I think that I think they'll want to keep them right around that like 500 point mark So they're kind of in line with a star drake Yeah, what is the star drake is like it is 520 right now? I think yeah Who knows what star drakes are gonna be but I would imagine they're gonna update the star drakes war scroll to keep them Around the same points cost, right? They won't make the star drake cheaper They'll make the star drake better and keep it around the same point cost and these guys will be like because these are very sentient They're intelligent creatures like in the video. They talk and have conversations, you know, they're they're dragons classical dragons They're smart brilliant, you know, they're they're not like just dumb beasts or something, right? Yeah All right, gary. I'm feeling good. I think bence is out of the running on his logic So just just between you and me bud We we got this In a world where bellachor is 360 could literally be any That's true It's a very fair point. Yeah 20 wounds Sure 20 things. Yeah, 20 wounds Yeah, so my 18 maybe low end, but yeah, that's a high team Yeah, maybe 20 maybe the um, I can't remember the names The more civilized one I'm wondering if he's maybe even a magic user Maybe so. Oh, totally. I think he's gonna be a spellcaster. Yes. Absolutely Yeah, I think a crondis the good one. So that's this one over here blue boy With his magical bracers and his magical collar. I think he'll be a spellcaster Yeah, I could see it being very kind of uh, the niche twins. I know that's kind of Yeah, one kit makes both both different ends of the spectrum ones combat beast ones magic user, you know Very similar kind of set up Yep Uh cinderfall gaming said I think 35 wounds the same as a mega gargant. Oh, I'd love that. That'd be great I would be all about that world And cinderfall said yes, they said in the article. He's a wizard that crondis is a wizard. Yes Yeah, and the the other guy scar clearly reads as a like Absolute like he reads as the melee guy Right Yeah, definitely. Yep. Yeah, I could I could see 20 wounds. Maybe being a little I'm not sure about 35 that That would be quite surprising to me. But yeah, I could see 20 being a little low. Maybe 24 somewhere around there. But anyway Yeah So I know we have one more item events. Uh, james's article is anything else we need to cover in news And we've got the events. Okay. So, yeah Yeah, we you know to give this justice would require an entire show in itself It's kind of a bigger set of topics. We just want to it's been going around a lot in the community So we just wanted to highlight it. We thought it was uh, you know an interesting conversation Uh, james huett who had worked at games workshop for a while as part of the rules design team I think he was in specialist studio. He had various jobs over the years He sent out a few tweets which after the fact he wasn't entirely happy with so he wrote I think today last last day a more in-depth article at his blog Which will include a link to something like working at games workshop the nuanced version I think was the title where he kind of goes into, you know, his experiences and working there Or the the good the bad and some of the issues that he had and I thought it was a thoughtful piece Uh, with a good discussion conversation to have in general But yeah, we just wanted to highlight it not really get into the into detail on it But I don't know if you gentlemen had any any thoughts on this event. Well, I it's a great article I have nothing else to add. I respect james experiences. He lived them and he shares them as you said in a very nuanced way Um, gary, I won't ask you to get into any details either But you know, you you also spent some time working at Uh, at gw. I'm not going to ask you to drag anybody or call anyone out or anything like that But did you get a chance to read either his tweets or the article and what thoughts do you have? I've gone through some of them. I haven't gone through the whole thing Yeah, I mean I was reading some of it nodding and again. Yeah Mm-hmm Some of that. Yeah, very ranked through Yep, so it's worth a read. It's interesting. I mean, you know The other big news item around gw was that they you know, because they had a Bonser year. I mean they had a bonser year their previous year was Was crazy growth on top of their their previous year like 2020 was crazy growth on top of Uh, 2019 and 2021 they exceeded that previous growth potential They had something like a 33 growth rate, which is 31 or 31.9 something like that. It's crazy. That's crazy growth That's unsustainable growth. Just like sure. I'm not sure that the market's going to understand that that is literally unsustainable Okay So like their stock could take a real hit When they post a great year that isn't that insane Right Um, like Yeah, we all just get locked in our houses again for a year and a half. It'll be perfect But like you like 30 growth is unsustainable in most markets. There are a few exceptions, but it's it's a generally unsustainable number um and so like You know the thing that went around in the news was they gave all their employees a 5 000 pound yearly bonus Great Nice, um Like that's fine. I'm glad they did that. That's a good use of that funds I and they also did say and and you know full respect in the the letter I did read some of the actual financial statement like the you know that I read the Some of the text and you know the letter from the CEO included that one of the things we're trying to do Is really focus on hiring and bring in new people as we continue to grow Good. I hope a lot of that money that they that they made goes to hiring new quality folks Right and as I've said before they should start hiring remote a lot more remote Like the pandemic should have taught them that they can function remote and no offense to nodding them It is somehow An actual center of war gaming talent in the world Um because of this the the the large number of companies there many of them founded by x gw people but Yeah But they have attracted a large amount of talent to a location. That's fine But at the same time if you want the best talent in the world You have to hire remote right now You have to be willing to go anywhere in the world to find the best candidates And if I was games workshop the best company in the world, that's how I see myself um You know, I would I would absolutely be casting a wide net Yeah Because you want the best of the best of the best right So, you know my but ultimately my feeling about the 5k bonus is Increase everybody's pay Don't give people a bonus increase people's pay Right sure like that's That would be the you want it like I saw everybody saying like good guy gw and like yeah, it's not a bad thing I'm not crapping on them for giving a bonus. It's really good. That's a good thing to do They return a lot of value to their shareholders. They should also return value to their employees who make that possible Right, but the real way you do that is by increasing their yearly salary Sure, yeah Yeah, so yeah, we just wanted to note it. So it's a good discussion and yeah All right, so we got events. We got our event slide Yeah, man, let's bring up them events Yeah Yeah, obviously I missed last week on vacation So we're kind of coming two weeks here and I passed by a lot of events that happened No, so we had Circus City clash in the States The really good showing from the Detroit gang I think all of them brought giants. They all brought giants, but giants did not take the day They did not Nope one lord of death who has reclaimed the title renda melnick Took best general. I believe I don't think he dropped a game. I think 5-0. Yeah, we wish 5-0 was sold like rave lords Yep, and then christian weir took out best overall with his monster heavy serif on I can't remember the details of the list, but yeah a bunch of distilladons and some other big beasties in the list He had the big he had the souped up, uh, like Old one or whatever on karnas or they can get up to like damage 5 or something, you know, yeah Yeah, very cool. Yeah, we had that. Let's see also in the states We had lone star open. So that was this past weekend And that was organized by the one and only scott reed. So shout out to scott That man organizes way too many tournaments for all of our great man a true hero in our community and a really nice guy with good taste in music Very good, dude. Yeah, so that was taken out by Kind of matt matt robish with daughters of kane. So no surprise there to those of us who have a strong daughters of kane bias On this or who just have common sense in our heads. Yeah Yeah, did you see that daughters of kane list that took out lone star open? I didn't actually nice All right, let's run down. So we had a blood rock medus, uh, nothing too surprising I mean slightly but really nothing too surprising hagnar You know start with your 15 snake bows start with marathi Have a medus as your general and then it was two by 20 witch elves And then a five kinderite lifetakers five doomfire warlocks Was the unique piece of the list So, yeah, not not sure what all the doomfires are doing there proof that in an army as good as daughters of kane Even their bad units can be in five. Oh tournament winning lists That's how undercosted that book is we could just include trash and still win Thing is They're actually really good units and I know It was third edition Um, you just want to get a mystic killed off most Yeah, yeah, no, I I am being funny and facetious on the on the doomfire warlocks. They actually are My point is in that book. They are probably one of the weaker units and they're still really good That's actually the challenge in that book is that you're like good. This is good Nope, still good, but I don't get it. There's normally there's normally units in these books that don't do anything Not in this book I thought it was a fascinating mix of lists and the top five for generally top eight There's an article in front line gaming that Folks can check out if they're curious to see a rundown of the top eight list from limestone open I'm not sure how many players they had. I know it was a pretty good sized event. Certainly a major Number two was a magikinem nurgle had a, you know, guru a couple of ks sources of lore ks source of lore manikore cave for that five up ward bubble sure three by ten play bears and then Referencing the show from last week three vanguards. There you go And I'm talking about It's I they are I'm telling you they're my pick for the coalition unit lock Of the week. There we go We had three vanguards 20 ks marauders and five ks knights all in hundreds of the heart lines sing a lot Of that core battalion sure and these early tournaments so far. Yeah, which obviously makes sense The folks don't know that's one of the battalions in the ghp 21 that allows you to ignore montress rampage Correct. The battalion says you are immune to roar the thing you must be That that's what that battalion says Well, it just works out so well that you you tend to put things in the one drop battalion I think I have a couple of things that are going to be anvils or whatever Just slide them over into the harlem I'm a two or three drop Um, you know, yeah Right Yeah, definitely So, yeah, and then We'll get into the pick. Well, I'll let's go and mention it, right, you know, there there's plenty of other events Events that were going on. I'll jump to it. Yeah, here's the july upcoming. We only have a few but there's london open Obviously this weekend So be interested to see what comes out of that but there's a several good games A lot of uk focused events all across the uk this weekend And then august is when we really pop off. This is there's so many all throughout august That's when like australia new zealand had a ton of events in august As well as uh, obviously several around here So in the us I gotta mention our bud jack with three rolling ones who went three. Oh and just as doing his best to remove All of his friends and his local community with his, uh, I don't know how many sentinels and techless he was running But uh, 50 sentinels plus techless and then there's and then other stuff happened in the list as well But it's pretty irrelevant. Yeah, so Good on you jack Good man Yeah, so that's events Right on okay Very good. Well gentlemen, let's go to some pick of the week then All right, so Tyler you can start us off because you've got many of them Sure. Well, yeah picking up on events that folks want to hear more about Kind of what happened over the last couple of weekends, you know, including non-us Obviously, I just kind of went into some details on some of the us events But events happening elsewhere. Rob Osmore Gamer did a really nice aowa stats center show this week Uh, we went into some detail on what we've seen the last couple of weeks here And then also a great show with richie on fireslayers fireslayer is one of those that I don't know It seemed like there's been a bit of are they still good? Are they are they going to be changing and their list composition and Uh, basically richie got on there for an hour and a half and it's like, you know, earth guard guys are still pretty darn good earth garbage orcers And so yeah, if you're interested in fireslayers, they're probably still gonna I think probably still going to be fine. Maybe some more options with magma dross and the orc earth guard, but And then also a good one with chris welfare instantly on idonath that you might be seeing 30 reavers in your future if you haven't already chris Do you guys catch that at all? I did. I watched that one and I agree with his logic Yeah, I missed with 60 actually, didn't he? Yeah, he did have a list with 60. Yeah Yeah, yeah, so So, I mean, it's lots of dice kind of the the genealogic there is you're looking at three options chris is thinking High rent minimum minus two ideally minus three random more Or mortal wounds mortal wounds mortal wounds or three bucket of dice and reavers And a pack of 30 can do a bucket of dice really well, especially with unleash hell So kind of that's the thought there Yeah, and the key is they can't all out defense everything Right, right That's that's the trick Like I really do believe that that what we're going to see over time as we play through this edition Is that the power of a singular hammer is vastly diminished? Right because What's that which figure You just telegraphing where it's going to come from exactly It's too easy to be like, okay I know this is going to be your hammer next round So when it's your start of your turn, I'm going to have some hero or something in front of it It's their best day ever The imistic shielded them already in advance of this next round and they're going to go all out defense and it's like, okay Bring your hammer and watch it do nothing Right, right. Yeah Yeah, so That whereas or or I can just yeah get away from it quite easy, right? I'll just redeploy away from it. Like there's so many options To nullify The efficacy of singular hammers Yeah Probably like they have to be so overwhelmingly strong As a singular hammer like they have to be an archie on Coming in on twos and twos re-rolling with bonus attacks and you know, basically immune to damage And can also cover like half the board in any given turn they want to Right and auto land 11 or 12 inch charges. These are all things that are true That they're not escape flow Right, you know, like that's just so hard to screen and get away from that. He can actually get there most of the time But he also has an auto kill so like to fend your way out of that, you know, um but The but otherwise like being able to just push damage around their army This is actually something I noticed in my testing because I'm playing like a very shooting heavy city's army Well, so I'll talk about when we get to the book But like they could I would just like shoot something and let them make the choice of all at defense And if they did I'd be like, okay, cool. Now. I'm gonna shoot these other things Sure Right because I've got lots of things I want to shoot in your army and you can't use that on all of them You can even you can still kind of split your shots You know the first stage can't break you take your briefs with the nine shots and go Well six 30 over there 30 over there and 30 over there, right On the six damage see which one takes the the all out defense and then right Yep, exactly as long as you lap in threat ranges with something that can then follow it up your golden Yeah, yeah, because they have a The ability, you know, you pick your targets and I just say there that's the value of spreading out your targets And then after you pick your targets, they say where they're dropping the all out defense, but yeah So let's see one more we've got actually two more Overchosen podcast I mentioned them a few times in the past and kind of on this theme of factions that the community's been Little uncertain about or down on they had a I thought a really great conversation around ocr bone reapers So one of their guys matt he's a good player does really well It's part of their texas scene and they've got this texas masters That's going on where all these events happen Throughout the year and then they have a culmination in the texas masters He was talking about his experience with ocr at a recent one day or where he went 30 and Yeah, it's really liked one get into the details You know part of it is the shotgun mystic shield that you can do at least for now with with arcan and how that Yeah synergizes with what patch fix elite got with what was it reducing or just ignoring minus one rent I think ignoring minus one rent with patch fix elite And yeah, generally that they can be incredibly durable still Put out some pretty good damage arcan's great piece catacro still a good piece It's kind of thinking that like they still have a lot of you know, they still have a good amount of play That's certainly some limitations like they can be redeployed against you know yada yada yada, but It was good kind of hearing a nice thoughtful breakdown of ocr can hang and get the most out of them Yeah Yeah, and then all right events that there's we gotta talk about ranathon, of course, maybe I'll let you do that Yeah, let me talk about it real big So, okay rantathon for those of you who didn't or participate last year or aren't aware Of what this is our good friend. Mr. Mephisto holds. I guess now it's a yearly thing Uh, so he holds a longer than 24 hour stream on his twitch channel The twitch channel is already linked in the description So you can go check that out and in there he's it's a bunch of donations for charity All the charity goes to mental health And it's like obviously Meph is all of that money that you donate is a hundred percent passed through to To the the charity none of it goes to meff And the He has a insane insane Host list of prizes this year Games things that have been painted Uh The he has a whole painted cursed city box to give away He has an entire new inbox sold like grave lords army to give away. I mean like It's it's massive. It's ridiculous Like it's something I wouldn't want to win because it's just too much I would be like this is too much stuff to paint, right? Yeah, and that's thanks to Shout out to brendan and dan with the cubic shanigans podcast for donating that. I mean, it's it's a huge army It's very generous of them. Yes, and there's just a bunch more like there's many more many many many more Giveaways and milestones and things like that that I'm not mentioning. You should absolutely tune in It's all for an extremely good cause He's gonna rotate through guests. I'll be on there Lots of folks from the world on there. Yep. Hey, we'll be there So it's just gonna be a great time He'll do it over basically 27 hours. So there's usually always a chance to get in there um and the um And it's uh this coming weekend. So Yeah, july 31st. Yep Yeah kicks off july 31st. Yep. There you go So, yeah, it's gonna be amazing Uh go for it. I think you know, every everybody you love in the community will be there. We'll all be there supporting meff Uh working with him to support and raise awareness and raise money for mental health It's something super important, especially as we all come out of the pandemic So, um, you know, this is it's there's no better time than this and you have a chance to win Uh, a bunch of really awesome pre stuff. So it's uh, it's truly win-win in the best possible way Yeah, 100% Gary you got a pick of the week Uh, I was gonna go on topic uh this week. I was gonna give a shout out to simons order academy Um Player uh, you know our excellence. He's he's very good at what he does and plays almost exclusively And does a good battle of course The interesting thing I find about his channel is he doesn't use the same list. He's always trying different things So It's not just he's at a hall or whatever. He's constantly trying completely different So if you want to try and get a handle on the action Really good channels to check out just because the breadth of things he drives There's always going to be something Just to spark your interest or or give you an idea to try Oh, great. It's a great channel. Uh, the um Uh, it's fantastic. So certainly do check that out Uh for myself, uh, my Pick of the week, uh, is already down in the description as well Because I was able to do this in advance and mine is our good buddy. Hey, whoa, twitch And his 23 minute video of how to be good at aos or what's good in aos 3.0 It's fantastic. It gives you a lot of times. We'll use terms like You know, this is a good anvil or this is a Muff wagon or something like that a lot of these terms are going to come up tonight as we talk through cities of sigmar And he defines all those terms shows you good examples tells you about the basics of how to play the game It is a fantastic fast fun overview Of aos 3.0 Check it out link in the description Okay Let's talk a little hobby time gentlemen All right, gary you've been uh, you've been assembling some stuff like both through purchases and that What are you working on? Uh, I am currently working through 65 nephew in reavers All right, there you go Yeah, I have I've uh been Seriously building I've been using thralls to proxy them strumming out a few games I quite like the idea. I've run it even There was a show about it and then I was using 30 And uh, yeah honest war gamer he was talking about 60 So I was like, oh, I'll I'll I'll give a couple of games with 60 as well. Yeah. I'm now doing another Our way through End of the go track came to the boat Yeah, the old shipwreck Me howling on with my deep kid at the moment, but there seems to be of all the games I've played in third now the one that seems to be clicking for me the most nice Yeah, just just a nice kind of does everything get every phase kind of to learn the game Yeah, I haven't actually got to play against or I always I don't have a deepkin army But I haven't got to play against them at all yet in 3.0. So Uh, I don't know could happen two weeks from now. Let's see I'll I'm sure I'll love coming up against a deepkin army with my all shooting army. That'll be very And it uh Tyler what about you? Obviously, uh, what would you get any games in or anything? Yeah, I got a few games in Yeah, so Got a couple games again against giants last night. Uh, yeah giants. Good folks giants. Good amyland destiny On 35 wounds is such a good time. I really enjoyed it Cracking eaters every time I face those darn things now. I'm amazed at how much damage they can put out Uh, it's it's wild They're they're supposed to be the terrible ones Uh, yeah, I've been having a little too much gork vents with this army this iron jaws It's it's uh rotting my brain So I don't know I don't know man I see no issue I see no issue get into the gork. You can always play it as mark as well. My friend He's got to be a little more cunning but also still yeah Like the cunning is uh is leaving me is leaving my brain turn one Just throwing the chat cabbages into people. I've got one chat cabbage. I got one fake chat He needs to learn how to yeah, we got to work on that guy So anyway, yeah, uh doing that. We're kind of aspects of the train project Let's really talk about that. You know about that. I got to talk with robin you get get us synced about some of the latest on that So we'll uh, we'll get get that figured out And oh wanted to do a shout out to my friend Greg. He uh sent me this nice Cool dice tray. He's working on these custom dice trays for aos. I think paul mentioned this last week actually on the show Yep, I think yeah, it's really cool. These great little custom trays. He's doing them on etsy It's like the dice must flow is yep The dice must flow is his twitter handle. You can also find the etsy shop linked in the description from last week's show Yes, that's it Awesome, uh, I got no chance to paint or do much anything with my hobby this last weekend Because I had we had our annual summer dnd marathon. So I was playing dnd for five days straight Uh, it was fantastic Me and a bunch of good friends got together and did nothing but do that We also all played to game or now we played one game of the Play a little magic and played a little uh Playthrough of the the dune board game, which you have if you haven't played Is an absolutely fantastic board game if you love the movie dune, which I do I am an annoying person to play dune the board game with because everything you use every card you play And everything you say there is a quote for from the david lynch movie And I will say that quote out loud every time no matter what uh, so Every time someone says how many soda card you have in the stack or how many feta keen or whatever There is always a quote that will follow that, but I did get the chance to assemble a few more guys I've been working on my uh, my rat cast Annihilators I got their little tails poking out I've I had to sand down their shields, which it was really fun to sand down the annihilator shields Because they're quite textured The this unit has picks the other unit has giant maces Uh, I only have two models left to assemble from my my thunder strike stuff. I have one more little, uh One more little annihilator to make and then I have to uh, uh Make uh yin dratza. I think we're gonna go with yin dratza lord So and then then I'll be then I'll be all done I had to talk with Kathy about what happened to you at some point There's gotta be a good explanation for some of this nonsense Uh, all right conversion gonna look like them. What's yin rats? What's yin dratza? Rats are gonna look like is that what you're asking No, what's what when you had a dragon? What's the dragon version gonna look like? Uh, that's a great question. I don't know because the idea is they are storm cast, right? These are redeemed Scaven, but they are storm cast. They just have more rat like qualities Like they still have their tails some of their weapons are different stuff like that But I still kept them as storm cast So like the dragon's a dragon. He's not a rat Right like he is who he is as it were Um, so that's why I'm kind of hoping we get mounted draconiths Because like like maybe they're smaller kin if if this is the two princes Uh one two princes here before you It's what I said now, uh, but if we get that if we get smaller draconith with um With with storm cast on the back. That's an easy slam dunk if we do the full dragon I'm sure I'll pick up one of them. It'll just be that dragon. He'll just be hanging out with rats That's it Yeah, maybe I'll give him like longer teeth or maybe like Uh You know, maybe maybe I'll give him like some of the some of the symbols in his wings Will be my updated storm cast scaven symbols because I I made my own custom like iconography. That's a combination of storm cast and Scaven symbols, so maybe you'll have those like tattooed into his wings or something Uh, you know something like that I don't know Uh, but yeah, we'll see these are the last two. I've got I'm keeping a couple because I had two dominion box sets I'm keeping a couple of the characters extra like I didn't make two lord imperators or two Uh casters or two knight vexalors because there's really no point to having multiples of those Um, so I'm just gonna keep them for kidmasches If for for like when I get the book what other characters are really good And then they're going to become those characters So if there's some knight caster or whatever that is really good great. That's the converted caster I'll just whip them up to have a different staff and a different whatever right or so on and so forth That knight vexalor is going to become some other knight slash lord slash something because somebody's going to be worth it so There you go um Okay, uh, so that's hobby time. Let gentlemen, let's uh, let's get into the the topic today here Let's do it. Let's talk about them cities of sigmar All right All right, let me bring up the presentation here Bum buh buh buh Cities of sigmar in aos 3.0 All right, let's start with a little high level before we get into the the meat of this Gary you played some cities. You've been interested in some cities. Well, you've been uh, you've both in 2.0 and beyond uh What do you want like what's your general take on cities in aos 3.0? Uh, the general take I suppose is they've actually come out a bit quite well They play in all aspects of the game They've got monsters. They've got monster carats. They've got resilient monsters Um, which is pretty much where it's kind of going at the moment um And the one of the the biggest things I've found in some of my data The battalion the battalion change the fact that the in-house battalions have been shot out of the door And now you've got the the core rule everyone Has has very much leveled the playing field in that kind of respect with cities. That was always their weak point Right. They're very So now they're on an equal footing with everyone else the yeah, they can really shine and the The points changes were quite favorable in quite a few places as well. So yeah, I think they've come out really good I agree with everything you just said Yeah, tyler, what's your take? Yeah, uh, yeah, I mean, I think gary gave a really nice summary there as well They they seem to be incredibly good with wide array of options You know, I've never played the fact any of the stuff actions myself not that familiar with cities of sigmar personally I played against him a little bit Have been seeing a lot of varied lists so far. Yeah, you know, we gave shime simon a shout out And he's been playing a lot of the interesting lists. We saw a cities of sigmar list. I think come top five at lonestar open Like yeah, it had so this was a living city, which we didn't see a whole lot during Most of the run of cities of sigmar Maybe we started to see a little bit more on the tail end but Rune lord allerial knight azeros 30 iron drakes So you can make them battle line reinforce them twice That's a very scary unit. That's always been a scary unit Gary, could you do 30 iron drakes in 2.0? Yeah, good, right? Okay. Yeah, I was thinking you could that was the max size 30 Pretty short in that set. Yeah, okay Yeah, and then 10 long beards 10 frugal guard nine can I shadow stalkers and a tree lord? Uh, was soul screen bridge of course for those iron drakes in particular just yeah A lot of varied lists that I've been seeing and some of them with the one day airs and two days so far Doing quite well. Uh, they've come out incredibly well. It seems Yeah, there's a very The one day or I went Running around in living cities Again, it's that whole kind of god model complex Isn't it just like you've got a god model. You're pretty much most of the way there to win a game of 3.0 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I I I agree with both of your takes. Oops, we jumped too far there So here's here's my basic summary. It's an incredibly varied army with lots and lots of potential like their bench is so deep It's going to be hard for the meta to ever move somewhere. They can't at least be competitive Right because they have so many different units and options and characters and things that are playing in so many different Phases of the game as you said Gary So this long list of units Right, they have strong sub factions like they have the well built like the good sub faction style that I prefer That doesn't lock you into things. So you still have all your choices available to you They have good hero monsters most of which got cheaper somehow In the points update, which means they got cheaper cheaper, right? If you went down points in the points update Any amount That means that you went way down Because against the baseline of everybody go up right So, uh, they have a strong ability to add the best of other armies into your force as coalition units Like we're going to talk a lot about coalition units later Um, they have a good selection of wizards and priests. They have buffs galore Uh, they have lots of ranged output potential and they've just got versatility Right, uh, I just think that that's their their their wide list of strengths I do think there are some weaknesses Hmm Is that I think you have to and I'll talk about this kind of on the next slide a little bit But I'm I'm interested to get you guys to take on the weaknesses before we get into the sort of tactics stuff But for me their weaknesses are mobility can be a challenge in some builds Um, like you've mentioned we've mentioned soul screen bridge a lot, right? Like that's taken because we have this mobility challenge, right? So it's great. We're good You know cities are generally good at endless spells. They're often pushing them out with plus two to cast in a lot of builds So you can get there Okay, but it but mobility itself can be a problem. It is definitely an army where you can't have it all Right because the nature of your city is going to end the power pairs you pick are going to kind of drive you a direction And you can supplement a little But it's not like you're just everything. I am the king of magic and the king of shooting and the king of melee Like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can probably be really strong in one of those phases And then good in another and weak in a third or something like that Right They do have lots of trap units for newer players Like there are just some things in here that are Let's call it what we let's call it. Let's call it what it is. They're bad. There are some bad units in here Uh, and I would say the linear synergies of this book can somewhat restrict your builds Right, there are many like if you take want to take a Then you're also obviously taking b Choices in this book Mm-hmm, right like if you take iron drakes congratulations. He might as well just come with a ruin lord Sure, right like he's in the list real quickly while we're talking about ruin lords Do you guys know of hand whether you can still Double stack the minus rent to get it up to minus three rent total On iron drakes, uh, no, I don't quite go here Yeah, I was gonna say I believe not I don't think I'd have to double check. Yes. Thank you Okay, I believe yeah, because I I haven't see well, I figure that's okay So I've been looking at lists and I haven't seen lists with two ruin lords whereas previously Of course, you would see that a fair amount to get up to that minus. Okay. That's good. Yep So what do you think about my weaknesses gentlemen? Is there anything I missed? Yeah, it's exactly what assistant rep said because it's a prayer and you're capped at At one use of that prayer. That's the issue Perfect. Okay. Good deal. Yeah Um, yeah, I mean, I think that's why you've seen living cities one of the weaknesses You pointed out the mobility and the living cities does get around that quite so um I think that is a weakness of their book is in general, but that's because Yeah really kind of helps So that's why I think you're seeing that one the most the most Um, I don't think they've actually got any genuine weakness. There's not like anything you can really That they are maybe a little flat in areas because of the build but there's no general kind of This book doesn't have Right if movement and builds a movement based on the endless bells living city Or a host of others. Yeah, it's just they are the master of the jackable trade Right Yep, I think that's right Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Tyler Yeah, weakness is Um, yeah, I can see your point like It's such a massive book that you're going to have units that are going to be duplicative Or a little worse. You're not going to see them But I mean, we've always had that with the city of the sigmar book You've had shows where you've talked about that before So I don't yeah, I don't necessarily see that as a as anything too surprising The you know, I can see the point about I mean, it would be a real problem if we're going to see cities of sigmar lists that Are not having some healthy limitations in terms of their capacity to put together the combined arms box If they're if they're get it, you know, like skaven when the skaven battle tone came out When was that 2000 top 2019? Yep Scape skaven was the combined arms, you know box and they had way too much crap in that box Yeah, they they were too cheap. So hence they could they they could have it all They could have it all right exactly So I like I don't have enough knowledge of C os and 3.0 to really have an informed opinion about Are we looking at stuff being too cheap in terms of what we can fit into these 2000 point lists what I've seen so far It feels like it's sort of on the borderline like very competitive But you know, maybe not maybe not a problem. Maybe not too bad Uh, yeah, there's a few thoughts. Yeah Fair enough All right. Yeah, I think honestly their points are despite it being funny that some of the hero monsters went down I honestly think their points are in a pretty good place Yeah I mean, obviously, you know, well, we haven't had a go trick mentioned yet. So let's get uh one out of don't worry He's coming that little that little ginger is coming All right, yeah Gary, I wish you nothing but a hundred point increase minimum on your go trick in the future Ha ha It's better than a unit that you really love and said to paint like 30 models for getting that same increase because then if you have to Stop the little you're like, oh god, I painted 30 models and now I I can't I don't want to use them, right with go track It's like, all right, whatever fine. Okay, right It's one guy. It's another year. Yeah. Yeah, exactly who cares So tactics my here's my summation of their tactics Their tactics are synergistic power pairs with dedicated strategies And what I meant by that is they're the jack of all trades in the list building phase, but not on the table Okay Like you tend to have through your list A fairly dedicated strat As to what you're doing Okay, so I've got a couple examples here on the slide. This certainly isn't all of them There are many others. Okay Uh, many many others that cities is so versatile. There's no way I could put in one slide Like I don't have the living cities ambush shoot fade charge You know block in part of their army while you cap and hold other key objectives like yada yada I you know, I there's so much other stuff Okay So here's a simple example what I the rune lord plus iron drakeson bridge already been mentioned once right the alpha shooting that can remove dangerous pieces anywhere Right, they just bridge around the lays away Say good night. Gracie. Here comes the neg two wrench shooting, right? Just Right You've got the anointed on some kind of phoenix Probably the the anointed with one too many ends in his title. I know. Yes, you're right It's No, I appreciate it. It's fine anointed. There we go uh With like with phoenix guard the sort of alpha bunker solution Right that holds and outlasts winning through attrition like you just move them forward and you go come get me I have all these troops and they're all immune to battle shock and As long as this dude who you're also not going to kill is alive and everybody in this army has a four-up word so Yeah, what are we looking at now for phoenix guard? Did they go up 175? What were they 160? They were one. Yeah, I think 160 sounds right. They were less I don't have the differential right in front of me, but yes You know, they're they're perfectly reasonably costed now for what they do because what I'll say That doesn't make them any less annoying to fight against Actually with a life storm, right? Yeah. Yeah, because there's going to be a life swarm around just Just popping them back in Uh, this is what I call the counter punch strategy. This is like something like free guild guard chaff or something like that There's there's still pretty cheap chaff In this army like, you know free guild guard are still only 85 points For 10 dudes like it's still a pretty cheap unit But you you have some kind of chaff and some kind of counter punch. It could be like drake spawn knights Which I know a lot of people are hot on now Because we're talking about neg 2 run 2 damage lances demographs same thing right same kind of profile um You know demographs being on a three up base Is quite attractive drake spawn nights being on a three up base quite attractive Right, but it's this sort of like counter punch trading strategy In that you have pieces that are going to trade well You can kind of put out the chaff fine They die I hit you back with something that's going to like shock remove you off And then I can trade well because I can sit here with my three up unit that like hit hard And now I can't do any damage anymore But now I shift into defense mode and I just kind of hang and stay alive That is a very uh Important strength that they do have they have very fast yet very cheap three up save Yes Yeah, and that that's three up save is is is magic On fast moving bodies that are relatively cheap and sometimes even battle line Is is hugely important. It's okay. It's not game winning on its own But in the mosaic of making a good list having these three up save Is is so important and a lot of the list will kind of lean into that. Yeah, that kind of Yeah, exactly It's like once you play a couple games 3.0. You realize just how valuable a three up save is Right. It's it's crazy because you'll be like, yeah, I can handle that It's so easy for them to suddenly be on a two up ignoring red one Yeah, and throwing them as units and hunters of the heartlands like we talked about earlier Where they can't do a darn thing about it in terms of roar, right? They can't roar at you. Yeah Yeah, that you know, maybe they've got geminids that they've hit it with but other than that. Yeah Yeah, exactly. So and then of course my last strategy is a pretty simple one. It's just called oops all shooting Like you have a lot of range to potential in this army So you could just be like oops all shooting like it's just it's all it's all shooting So that's what you're doing. That's what I'm taking to nash con. So there you go. Oops all shooting Uh, what other tactics that I didn't highlight here. Would you guys want to mention? Well real quickly, I'm curious. I don't know if you want to get into now, but maybe real quickly I was curious what you're working. I don't you want to go into it Uh publicly or if you're one of those guys then so you got to keep everything secret What what's your nash con list? I don't care you can know my list because I'll still beat you anyways. It doesn't matter It's irrelevant. No Sure, um, yeah, I mean I use a couple coalition units in the azeros and the venator which are subject to change So like a part of my list is still on very shaky ground Um, but I love the azeros and I love the venator The azeros ends up being like a great way to get re-roll ones in a very large area The venator ends up being uh, it's like uh a great, um Uh additional ranged piece to just bunker bust somebody when you when you've got the hero arrow The hero killer arrow or whatever like people get scared of that. I actually don't expect it to kill a hero Okay, what I've started using the bunker buster arrow for is to make them use all out defense Like what I actually want to do is shoot this unit over here Okay, like removing this unit is valuable Right that because usually you're trying to kill units as much like I need to remove this piece So I can complete a battle tactic or take an objective or something But I don't want to deal with plus one armor save on that guy in the shooting phase So instead the venator will bunker bust a hero and their immediate response to d6 plus three damage is To throw up all out defense like it is the quickest way to trigger all out defense in the universe Okay, because no one wants to take the chance that they just get that hero That hero is just going to get blown off the table In sure if they get if they if the bunker buster gets through and that arrow is on like two ups re-rolling one's two ups So, you know, it's not that hard to To to get there Okay With with the associated buffs in the in the armor, right? And so instantly they'll trigger all out defense on their little hero I'm shooting dead and then everything else in the army just for 20 blazes at whatever I actually wanted to kill Right So anyways, those two make it for a fun pair from from storm cast. I've got a An iron clad in there. I've got a steam tank commander in there Which is a hilarious choice, but I refuse to change I have a couple gyro copters in there for like running chaff We I've got a Basic battle mage because you always have a basic battle mage because basic battle mages are the best We call that the the bbb the better business bureau of basic battle mage being best and uh, and then I have of the hurricane and with the battle mage on top and my My battle line is a bunch of free guild outriders Which I stand for outriders outriders are amazing people have I've never seen anybody talk about outriders And they always do so much work for me. I think they are incredible and wonderful and perfect And I love them. Everybody's always up on the pistol ears Pistol ears are fine. Gary ran a list with like 60 pistol ears. So I know you know I know Gary loves the pistol ears and they're fine. I'm not down on the pistol ears I'm up on the outriders Okay That's all I'm saying. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it when we get to troops Yeah, that's something like that is my list Okay, guys, I was just curious. Yeah, honestly the um the The um uh the Steam tank commander guy he's in there because he's one of the cheapest ways to get a three up You know like monstrous type uh hero Okay with a lot of wounds and um I give him the arcane tome so he can mystic shield himself and then he just drives around trying to run into people So that he can just hold them up That's all. Yeah, nice. He's just this weird little tech piece That just drives around trying to slam into people and he's extra shots Like I don't expect the cannon or the sniper rifle or the machine gun to do anything, but if they do Yeah You know just more shooting just more more guns all guns weapons free I want my army to look if you ever watched The the the pilot of battle star galactica like the the the three hour miniseries they kicked off the battle star galactica series There's a moment Where the galactica who's been running from the sylons finally gets Rearmed and re-equipped At the station that they stop at like it's now got all its all its ammunition again And it floats up into the atmosphere to get all the ships out And all these sylons come in and adama is like all weapons all all guns weapons free and you just see like Just all these guns come online and this hail this wall Of metal goes up through space at the battle star at the at the bay star And I'm like that's what I want playing my army to feel like I want to feel like a wall of lead is coming at you So there you go. Yeah, I remember that Again Yes, sure some of it will hit. Yeah, yeah, exactly Uh, okay Cool, uh anything else on tactics we should mention gary you mentioned living cities I do think living city has a lot of play in it because of it the silvaneth inclusion. We'll talk about them some in coalition Right, uh, very strong ability to to bring in the silvaneth units new allorial lots of stuff like that Yeah, but they're the moving after shooting coming on from the It just gives an element of mobility that isn't relying on Bells going off or you know other things that are not in your control You you you can definitely bring things on the edge and you can definitely spend a command point to move after the shot Just gives that element of speed when army that is Possibly a little on this well aside norm right Yep, and and the trees because you can bring on tree loads to bring down teleport trees Uh, you know, you've got uh, what they're called. Is it the revenant? Is that the name? Yeah, true Yeah, true evidence. Yeah teleporting ones That's on their scroll. It's nothing to do with the allegiance of others. So again, there's lots of little things that tie in just to kind of You keep to your core principles, which is guns and magic But kind of add that kind of and I also move quite well Uh, yeah, I didn't thought about that. Yeah with living city now the fact that I mean, we'll see whether this stays the same But right now that we can have Yeah, as you said the ancient do silent communion to get a wood on the table And have it be three different woods. So now you could actually let them out. Yep. Yeah, you can split them up now So you could potentially Teleport with big trees true lord true lead ancient or spirits of derthu Yeah, actually between those those three different woods that you now have on the table. That's that's pretty sweet It also ways that you might have You know different areas where you could get access to the plus two attacks on derthu for example Rather than just, you know, one wood in one place on the board That he might be away from that that wood with regard to the plus two attacks. So yeah, that's pretty cool Yeah, I just want to give a shout out here to purr. Erickson who's a newbie in the chat asking what we're talking about We're talking about age of sigmar for more hammer. I hope you enjoy it. Come come play the game with us. It's super fun Uh, so we're talking specifically about cities of sigmar the sort of humanish faction in the world all right Uh, okay Heroes let's talk about heroes. They have lots of whereas I split this into two categories So this first category is monster heroes and I I'm making the finger air quotes around monsters Because uh, they actually have a lot of not monster behemoth heroes, right Uh, that are still actually quite good Uh, so thumbs up there Uh But I mean the three I've got on screen here are obviously you're anointed on phoenixes, which we've already talked about Super good just ridiculously good Just ridiculously cheap for what you're getting there You're getting models that can more or less boost their own save Especially if you give them the arcane tome and then they cast mystic shield on themselves and get plus two to save Like that's a that's just hot right there Uh, and then the frosty who gives neg one to wound or the fiery one who can mortal wound bomb people when he flies over them And or just come back to life, which is pretty strong And these guys are cheapest chips like the flamespire phoenix is 290 290 for this guy And the frost phoenix is uh, 315 both of which are Very good Down Yep, uh, um the free guild general on griffin who is still quite good. I'm sorry. I'm not going to rate the battle mage I apologize everybody, but the battle mage on griffin is still bad Uh, so I apologize to dad didn't mean to dash your hopes But i'm dashing your hopes He's out My my He is a gourmage that's true that is true Uh, and then things like the celestial the battle mage on hurricane Or you could pick the lumen arc, but I'd always pick the hurricane honestly, but you know, whichever your choice Um other other things that didn't make the slide, but I think are worth mentioning Are the steam tank commander who's only 230 like he's still actually quite cheap For a guy who can self heal what I mean by that is not only can he of course use heroic recovery or something Like duh like all heroes and he's actually quite brave He's a bravery eight because he's a guy driving around in a tank So I guess that makes you more brave when you drive around in a tank um But I mean I would be more brave in a fight if I had a tank and the other person didn't have a tank That would generally make me more brave But he also can just heal himself every round like he has his own built-in self heal. Oh nice Um And he has a bunch of good ranged attacks. He can do mortal wound impact hits So even though we can't do monster Stuff because he's not a monster. He still does have the mortal wound impact hits Um, and it's just really again. He's another great arcane tome candidate Uh, you know, he's got a neg two rend main gun. It's Fairly unreliable, but you can get it on to twos and twos pretty easy Uh, or sorry, I'm I put it on to threes and twos pretty easy. Sorry Which is fine like that's fine It's fine Yeah, I played against uh steam tanks a little bit in 2.0 and they just didn't They just didn't do enough like they weren't a reliable enough anvil. They weren't a good enough hammer But now I like your idea of a mobile anvil. Yeah, I don't rate that the normal steam tank is kind of still junk sadly But the when you when you give him the hero keyword and suddenly he can have his best day ever And suddenly he can become a spellcaster who can cast a mystic shield You know like, uh, okay All right, we're doing something now Like you can get a metamorphosophonium as well. You could yes. He's a great candidate for metamorphosis. Yes Absolutely because when you turn him into a monster through metamorphosis He actually is very likely to stick around because you can sort of monster him up Run in do the thing you need to do with the objective to get your extra point And then on the enemy turn when they're going to swing back in that's when he has his best day ever Right, so he sticks around and they can't pick up the free point for him. Well, he's still stuck in being a monster right See, I rate him I rate him for 230. Um, you know, you just have to recognize his limitations Right. Sure. He's he's not he's not archion for god's sakes You know As I mentioned on a previous show I did have archion attack my steam tank commander when he was in his best day ever with all the bonuses to save And archion failed to roll two sixes on the wound and only did five damage to him And then the steam tank commander drove away So You know guy in a tank still pretty good My fake chat cabbage did not have that same fates. He had a different fates involving two sixes sure Uh, and then final ones I'll mention here just quickly um the uh The dreadlord on black dragon now both the dreadlord on black dragon and the free guild general on griffon suffer from the same problem That their shields give them plus one to save it doesn't change their save characteristic To three. Yeah, they're four up base guys, right? but but in defense You know like let's all all defense. Okay the Dreadlord on black dragon His black dragon does have a relatively nice breath weapon. We can't sleep on that Uh He has his own built-in ranged attack as well if you take the repeater crossbow So he can be an interesting candidate in something like, uh, living city because he can shoot and move Uh, and his command ability is plus one to wound rolls In a aura around him like wholly within 18 inches of him Okay for for orders to pentas people like namely your drakespawn knights Who's going to probably be the recipient of those all your drakespawn knights around And because it it is a count. It is a combat phase command ability, but it targets him Yeah So you can use like he can put up his own bubble And then the drakespawn knights can still get plus one to hit on themselves because they have a champion So the and those two can both function in the combat phase so decent Like he's not he's not bad. They're they've got some good monster heroes. What do you guys think? What do I have? What haven't I mentioned? Yeah, I was really curious about what you guys thought with, uh, the dreadlord on black dragon Uh, did it go down in points as well? It's 290. It was 300. So yeah, gary. Do you have any do you think there's anything interesting with with, uh the dragon there I mean, it's all just appendices only, isn't it? Yeah, that's one of the worst appendices only. Yeah Yeah, it's it's that whole uh, you know point don't push kind of List building if you take it then it kind of pushes you down a certain bill If you want that build great. If you don't then maybe Yeah, but if you are yeah, he's perfectly serviceable. I think you know the shield thing is a bit of a shame, but At the end of the world, right? Yeah those drakes again the What they called the drake the drakespawn knights Drakespawn knights. Thank you. They're yeah, we've mentioned before they're on a three upside So yeah, not the worst kind of core to base an army this you know having some media damage, but tanky battle lines can be buffed in a pinch Um, well, maybe other elements of the army are maybe onto the heavy heavy You know, um, but yeah that that core can go around dealing with medium-sized units quite adequate Right yep because it with both of those buffs They would that unit of drake spawn is going to go to twos and threes right if they get plus one to hit And they have the dread lords plus one to wound suddenly they're like twos threes neg two two damage That can certainly remove a problem. They are a 10 inch move unit, which is nice And you know they like and again as said the magic to them is that they're on that base three up save I really think that's the magic to them. And by the way, they're not that expensive. They're five for 125 points Yeah, it's not bad Not bad Yeah, that's nice I think they've got play Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I've been well, yeah, we're talking about heroes right now But anyway hearing quite a bit about you know demigrips are still very playable a friend of mine Oh, we'll get there. Don't worry. We got we got demigrips coming. Yeah What about the lumen arc of hish? With without the battle made just you guys write that at all now I know we saw it periodically in 2.0 not a ton suddenly not as much as the hurricane I think they're still overshadowed by the hurricane Yeah, just because A big main benefit is is more would you Is you there's no diet? You've got better Come here Units in the army can do the same Hurricane and kind of buff is just much Much better for the army as a whole. Yeah, it's many moving parts Imperfect as an army and that's one of the biggest moving parts of you It's a very rare list. Yeah Always overshadowed. You probably can't find the points for both right, sure You're on it. Yeah, you could but you'd probably be laughing Yeah, I think my problem with the lumen arc it's exactly what gary said It always ends up being the first cut You know, it's it's not that I don't want one. Sure. I would love to have a six up ward Right, like yeah, that sounds great. You know um The problem is if you take them without the battle mage, which is what you end up doing to try to squeeze them into the list Right, you're like, okay. Let me how do I how do I fit this thing in here? Well, let me take it without the battle mage without the battle mage. It's 220 Right with the battle mage. It's 275. Yeah, okay. It's not the not the biggest difference But the trick is then you're just taking it For a 220 point searing beam of light, which you know is not bad and the ward safe Yeah Excuse me. I'm so sorry everybody um, which you know, look It does also add one to unbinding roles But only for collegiate arcane wizards and that's really important to understand right Yeah, I was thinking about the what rune lords they get plus two unbind built in correct Yeah, and they would not benefit from that Like part of the problem is you could just take a couple more rune lords They can also six up ward because they can bless because they're free right, right and uh You know and they have a better built-in unbind Because they have a plus two unbind just natively on themselves So it's like uh, yeah, you know, I like the laser beam. It's cool. Don't get me wrong drawing the big laser beam is super fun Yeah, but smart players will also scatter their stuff Like they will make sure that there's no straight line you can draw where you're getting too many valuable things Right, they'll they'll be aware of that. It's a very that 30 inch line is incredible But it's quite easy to be like my heroes are in some weird connect for pattern It's like you're never going to get the line through more than one of them, you know, sure Yeah, definitely All right, cool. Yeah, I was just curious because I haven't been seeing it in many lists and then it's I saw a little bit in 2.0 but yeah Yeah, yep Uh, okay Then other heroes. So this is what I rank as just, you know, interesting support or enabler heroes Uh, here are the scroll. I've got the battle mage because the battle mage is the best as we already discussed Uh, the rune lord for reasons we've talked about many a time their prayer is fantastic It's they are the best prayers in the game coming through on a hot two up given that neg one rend yeah, uh the Uh, the sorceress the base sorceress who I do stand because she has a good spell and can very easily give herself Plus two to cast by icing one of her people Mm-hmm The This guy is here just for cinderfall, but that's okay. I still think he's he's interesting And that's the black arc fleet master clocking in at 70 big points Uh, he is funny because of how many things he does make battle line When he like he turns interesting things into battle line when you make him the general and he is Truly the definition of a cheapest chips hero um And then doralea van denst who I I love so very much and think it's just a standout incredible hero With a crossbow that makes things be dead and has a built-in five up ward save and is fantastic I just know that Yes, she shoots dead endless spells like she's so good. She's so versatile Yeah, 115. Yeah, she's great. Yes Black arc what about the I'm looking at the black arc fleet fleet master so many points That's gotta be one of the cheapest heroes in the game. He is super duper cheap. That's why I love him You know what it turned what what that one turns on instantly. He said it turns on battle line Yeah, sure. So if you've got the black arc fleet master, he makes black arc corsairs Uh, battle line which are another very cheap unit that has both melee and shooting potential So like they are effectively replacement better free guild guard for the same price, right? Because they have a solid sort of ranged attack in there as well um, so, you know, he's Uh He's got some potential You know, he has a scourge privateer like that specifically his his thing because remember all the dark elves got Split into like three categories Right. Um, he also makes scourge runner chariots battle line Which are which I quite like a bit as an interesting mobile unit. We'll talk about later on but they are one for 80 So again, if you're just like he is mr. Cheap battle line enabler Right him plus three chariots or a couple tenors of black arc corsairs You can get your leader and all your battle line out of the way for like Almost no points with him. Nice And it just enables you to go play with other crazy stuff Right, like if you were going to try to do something nutty with living cities And you really wanted to bring in a laurel Or you're trying to sneak techless into a list somewhere or whatever, you know through through settler's gain Like if you have those god models, he can be uh, He can be a great way to just like sneak all the requirements out fast. It's like Almost basically like 300 points. We're done with that. But now we got 70 our points to build my army Yeah, sweet Gary are there any other heroes that stand out to you? I mean vence has got the mainstays Apart from that fleet master You know that I always hear about Any others can stand out to you I mean the other thing I would well, there's one and there's one Caviar, I suppose the battle mage. I'd always say should at the moment be here, by the way Um, I don't know if we're going to go into the minutiae of the different sites The battle mage should be usually a girl In most cities list for the moment But the the other one beyond that is actually the no band no mad prince Yep Yep, I didn't he I thought about it explain the no mad prince. He's one of the few wanderers things. It's still really interesting Yeah, he's uh, I've got it here. I mean, obviously he starts unlucky You know certain kind of wanderer stuff If you're going to build your list around it And he's actually quite decent Combat profile wise. I mean, that's not why you're taking but he's still four attacks three and threes rend one damage two A three up set Which is quite important So he you know, he is he's on that magic three up even on as a little hero most little heroes are usually four Right In being on a three is is quite useful. He's also got quite a nice little like bird ability where you can just bird Harry things so you you can give enemy units minus one to their casting dispelling and unbinding rolls Which is fairly right And he's got a fairly good aura command abilities. It gives plus one to all wanderers or Something silly like is it like like 110 points something like that? He's very cheap Yeah, the yeah, no bad princess 110. Yes, correct. Yeah Yeah, 110. Yeah, so he's got a very good ability a pretty good combat profile a very good save and unlocks if that's your you know, if that's your um, your thing the wanderers battle know and the What they called again the the kind of spear guys what they called again eternal guard. Yeah eternal guard Or actually fairly decent again, maybe a little expensive They had to maybe you're you're genuine chat But again, you're getting a fairly good combat profile with a It's almost like a free without defense most of the time as well I'm three up three up saves without really trying, you know two up Yeah Never kind of exceeding the three up, but they're just very resilient and you've got the system to watch Then you've got some more to shooting as well. It's quite a nice little package And he's the kind of either unlocked all of it I don't think he's probably if he starts competitive But it's not not a bad shot Yeah, if you're if you're trying to take a foot general to unlock the you know sort of the Adjutant in the bodyguards so you can so you can bodyguard your your general and get the extra command points and all of that nonsense You know like if we in cities you're always making this decision first of am I using all of my allegiance abilities or not Because if you take a big monster hero, you just shut off that whole part of the book Of your bodyguard unit and your adjutants and all that To get the free the shot at the extra command points But he's actually a hot pick if you are because he's relatively durable Right, so so whenever you make a basic foot hero your your general it's like okay. Well now i'm risking something but uh Being on a three up and as well like that harrying bird of prey. I don't want people to sleep on this It's a really good ability like in your hero phase You can pick one enemy hero within 16 inches of this model Until your next hero phase Subtract one from casting and dispelling and unbinding roles for that model and Subtract one from hit roles for attacks made by that model So minus one to hit and minus one to all their casts on the big like people love big monster hero casters, yeah, yeah And smacking them with a neg one to everything they care about for nothing like an automatic ability He just goes i mean just get him right Just like the obvious the shadow queen any way that the shadow queen is staring at a minus when it hits Can really hurt. Yep, particularly. It doesn't have a way to for whatever reason do all that attack Uh, yeah, that's yeah, that's awesome. I missed that subtract one from hit roles piece. That's that's amazing Yeah, you can do it to archion. He's a great target for it Your vampire lords on zombie dragon or something like that. They're great targets for it Right and he can easily be behind chap hitting people with that at 16 inches like it's not hard to protect that little dude Yeah, like I hate rolling. Oh, sorry. Go ahead and care Sorry, I was going to say the very good target I found for him is actually a lariel ironically Yeah, because she has an innate Asking bonus Oh, yeah, oh man So she she's the three casters, isn't she? Would you know anything? That is and again most uh Damage is is combat Oh, yeah, it's um, she's not like a master spellcaster. So that that's completely Annoying people. Yeah Um, but you can also do silly things like take him in living systems Um, and you've got other defense parts items and command traits in there as well actually makes him Actually very genuine an extra Also, I think the item actually gives his damage on his weapons an extra point of damage so he actually becomes Genuinely kind of quite the little little ballistic missile going around the the table heartings for the artisans That sounds right. Yeah, living city. I think they do have an artifact that provides plus one damage Uh, well, there's a rin characteristic pick bears a melee weapon and melee weapon for the rin characteristic by one Add ones that target the general in addition add one to wound rolls. There we go wound rolls with attack Many weapons. So again, it's he yeah You can make him tanky and hitting for the low low price Yeah, he can do a lot That's a great shout. Yeah the nomad prince. I think is another underrated here. I think people sleep on him But again, he he can play in a lot of different ways. He's got potential. I dig the dude What about an assassin Okay Gary go ahead I can say with a saints blade, maybe Yeah, the same way being the one that gives buffs if you're within range of an object Which you could be because you can pop out any unit that happens to me Yeah But as again another thing as you'll find for this book a lot of What he unlocked as well Shadow warriors as he does he unlocked shadow warriors about a line. Yeah Oh, wow, really good. Oh, yeah He's actually not bad either There's very little things that you can't make a case for There are some There's always there's always a corner case where you go. Oh, yeah, but he can do that And you could you could you could stick a wedge in right? Right I don't rate him too heavy, but he is cheap. He's interesting because he makes shadow warriors battle line He's just interesting because he's because you're gonna start him off table effectively because he's hidden in a unit right it's like It because he's not on the table It it shuts off some things Right that you might otherwise want your general to be around for oh, sure, right So, yeah Yeah, he's he's tricky Um, honestly, I take the fleet master Yeah Okay, save that 10 points All right, let's talk troops We've already talked about a lot of these troops But I mean there's lots of potential troops that want to be power pairs in this book Drake spawn knights. I we've talked about him a lot already I stand behind him great power pair with the dreadlord on black dragon But honestly decent enough anyways like you can have the black dragon or not I think they can still do the work they need to do Uh, you've got phoenix guard, which we already talked about again having a bunch of Having a bunch of troops that are you know with with their anointed around either on foot or on the the birdie Suddenly becoming immune to battle shock and having You know a four up four up Before any kind of other buffs get applied is uh, it's very strong like having a built-in four up ward is obviously good Adoi Um, I don't think I'm I don't think I'm breaking new ground here. Okay Uh free guild outriders. Let me make the case for these bad boys So the way that the free guild outriders work Is they each of them has their little repeater handgun? Which is d3 attacks each on fives and threes, which I know sounds scary, but stay with me Okay at neg one to hit Or sorry fives and threes at neg one rend one damage Okay, however You add one to the attacks characteristic of the units repeater handguns if they're not within three inches of any enemy units So now it's five d3 plus five Meaning you average 15 shots out of the unit. Okay Okay, mm-hmm now because it's pretty easy to give things plus one to hit in the current edition And I run them with a hurricanum the hurricanum will often drive up They'll sit at the edge of the bubble Right because they just need to be like they just need to be tippy toe in the back of their little cav bases into the bubble They have a 16 inch range on their shots Which is quite far if I need them to operate independently they do have a champion Okay, by the way the champion can take a special gun you never take the special gun He just has the same gun as everybody else. Okay So they can run out there, but importantly the this that this unit Can run and or retreat and still shoot later in the same turn So they have built-in run and shoot and built-in retreat and shoot Okay, sweet. So if like in tempest I where I run them on the first turn Right their base move Is 15 inches Tempest I has plus one to run all the time just built-in The unit has plus one to run built-in because of their trumpeter. So now you're plus two to run rolls Okay So your first turn you can run a unit of these bad boys out there right 15 inches plus a d6 plus two With a 16 inch shooting range Okay, good. So they can get there Mm-hmm And you know they they do work like they end up being if you keep them in the in the hawkite bonus Then they end up being like fours and twos neg one red Yeah How are you usually finding yourself using them? Are they usually run up front line Chaff that's going to get some shots and maybe one of them will pop off and leachel redeploy them So I usually use them two of them exactly as you're describing like I run three units of five Two of them are exactly what you describe, right? They kind of move up their front line chaff They're there to die if they don't die then they retreat out and lucky day for me, right? Yeah One of them ends up being like a hairy unit that goes runs around and shoots a sort of maximum range Is something and that's the one that takes the all-out attack Right because they ran out of the hurricane's bonus Gotcha And then the azeros is always trying to be there giving them re-roll ones to hit Oh, yeah, okay Like fully buffed. They're on fours re-rolling ones twos neg one one damage For how many points? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, like they they can do the work and as I mentioned they are battle line and tempasi They're 110 points for five Okay, yeah, pretty good. Yeah Interesting. Yeah, yeah, I think I've mostly just played against the pistoliers like probably everybody else I don't even know if I've played against that riders before maybe I have but yeah I I stand these guys they've done nothing but good work for me Um, they're nice because they end up being a lot of shooting in this army Can end up being like kind of big hit shooting especially in the way I have it built where it's where I don't have a big unit of iron drakes Right. I have like an ironclad. That's a lot of like big hit shooting or stuff like that. Sometimes you need just like peppering Right. Yeah And they're they're like good peppering if you just roll up all like you you do have the ability if someone's dumb and just moves into the middle Well, okay like I'm just gonna move up on you and take an average of 45 shots at all those bonuses Sure Right. Sometimes you just need to get rid of chat lines and you don't want to waste an ironclad shooting. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly Yeah, okay So and then we've talked about iron drakes. They're obviously Dominantly amazingly good and they didn't get that much more expensive. They're Were great still great there their shoulders are tired from carrying the dwarden race on their back and just being amazing at it. So Uh, there you go Iron breakers too, man. I'm breakers of three up save. They're pretty amazing. Yeah. Yeah So, yeah, yeah a case could be made for them now because of that free upside Yeah that alone absolutely I know I I think you're absolutely right iron breakers can actually be really Really surprisingly hard to shift Yeah, um Yeah, somebody just We're gonna see a lot a lot of these three up save units and hunters Just all day I remember we're starting to see it with tournaments and yeah these guys They've got the so two attacks eight inch range of j5 pistol. Is that for each one? I'm looking at this right now iron beard Okay, just iron beard. Okay. Yeah iron break a weapon two attacks threes and fours. All right So, yeah, they're not going to do a lot of damage you get into Two's and fours. I don't know. Maybe there's a way to get a a plus one wound through some synergy with a dwarden hero That I don't know about but yeah, it's going to be hard to shift and if they get where they need to be And they're probably pretty cheap too How much are these guys? They went down a pretty sure Nice iron hemorrhage iron drakes Not seeing them iron breakers are 115. They only went up five points Yeah, so pretty good point value for three up save base Interesting Longbeards, do you rate them at all Gary? Um, I think they yeah, I do like them. Um, they're one of those kind of Once you've gone down a path. They're the next logical step Just you know, but they are a cheap outline that happens to Be ballet all the time Taking those iron drake you might as well take at least one unit again just to use this chat but also give the Uh, there's a wound buff to the iron drakes as well. So, you know, it's just kind of it's not even like a power pair at that point It's like a power triplet, you know, you're taking the iron breakers with the character and you might as well throw Yeah Um, but yeah, I think you could make a case for having them just as normal that line anyway Personally Again And you can even take them with, um You really want to you can really, uh, where's it? They get the shield wall rule Um, so you get plus one to the save rolls for attacks with Anyway, so again, yeah That shield rule again, but it's almost like kind of built in all out defense sure So yeah, they're fine and the chief. Yeah, well and they've got that the end of spell dispelling Then as well, which is cool in a case, but at some point you're going to put so many rules on a scroll That they're gonna be Yeah, absolutely Wow cool And we've got no vents. I'm still here. No, I'm still here. Just thinking I just thinking through stuff Are there any other troops that you can think of that, uh, that are that are worth sort of, uh, mentioning any other base troops that you really liked Well, as I say the dreads fears is is where I'm leaning at the moment. Okay Because I've got like I've got sorceress. I'm kind of going to the sorceress Abby plus the cast kind of direction itself. So you want to have some order for the You know for the the dagger to get those pluses cast but dreads fears anyway, when you're comparing them to Regal guard, it seems to be the kind of chaff unit of choice They're five points more but you get quite a bit more for that five points You might as well spend that extra five points just to get the extra pepper save The extra bit of rent the extra range on the back Um, you know all these little things again, they're not low not going to hit games maybe but for follow point You you might as well just kind of pay it Enough you go the fact that you know you are giving yourself some kind of Right plus if the cast just by stabbing them as well is Is their main kind of point of existence but the five Yeah So I want to answer w soren here. You said question thoughts on sisters of the thorn with levitate or flaming weapon My answer is sadly. They are still bad I don't think flaming weapon can help sisters of the thorn like I really wish I had a different answer for you Soren, I really wish I did I mean sisters of the thorn are five for 130 You know, they do become battle line if you've got a wanderer general So I mean I suppose if you that the nomad prince we talked about Right, um, but I mean they just like even with okay, so even if they could Even if they cast flaming weapon on themselves You pick one of the weapons that you have So I guess it's your your coven staff It's like it's just not enough Uh Yeah, I I suppose it would be the hooves. Yeah, you'd actually pick the horse You'd have flaming feats on the on the horsies. Yes, that would be actually your choice. Yeah But I mean it's just it's just not doing enough like they're They're fragile they Yeah, I like it's a shame they've fallen great distances from their heights in eighth edition when they were a A true scourge of the tabletop, but yeah, I just I don't buy it Yeah, they were amazing early on in aos Probably thanks to Aaron Bailey in particular We they took a nosedive after they folks started copying him early on in 7th running Sisters of the Thorn in a 7th list with like 30 dryads Putting that uh now called armor thorns. I think it was called something different at the time. Yeah on them and anyway Uh, yeah, they they have not been that attractive for a little while now We've got two other options. I'm curious about so we talked a lot about the drake spawn knights Uh, I know our mandomas loves him some wild riders. He goes pumping up They've got two attacks on the hunting spear two range. You were just talking about the drake spawn knights With one attack. They only have a five up save. That's terrible. We'll stop right there. There's where you hit the problem Yeah, yeah, you found the issue Nope one one 24 for five Having a five up save in 3.0 is like having no save like it's just you forget about it T-shirts, isn't it? Yeah Like it's just because you're not worth using all our defense on and everybody's trying to bring heavy rend to counter that on the defense So you're just you're just dead in the water There's probably no way to give them a plus one wound either Unlike the drake spawn knights unless there's a spell that I'm forgetting about in living city That maybe does plus one wound But I'll have to check on that but yeah Wild riders will pay for the sins of 8th edition when you could just take five of them and lift any unit in the game Like five of them in 8th edition five of them charging in were just like instant death to anything they touched Okay They just broke through any line any unit they shattered it no matter how big it was no matter how tough it was And so they were so OP and ridiculous that they have had to pay for that sin now for the last six years And they will continue to pay for the foreseeable future Yeah, I'm not seeing any any way to give them plus one wound minus one wound as one of the spells Other than inspired triumph. So yeah too bad. Yeah So the other part of the other those are all like the power pair troops Here's my list of like stand-alones like things that I think work really well on their own Okay, just like as a as a modular piece So shadow warriors gyrocopters or bombers by the way, I think they're both fine Gyrocopters, especially who who just randomly decided to get the elite keyword. So I guess you can use command abilities on them for some reasons Sure, why not? um demigryps and Scourge runner chariots All of which I I stand all of these. I think they are all valuable Uh, I think they're all good. I like now I am super biased for shadow warriors I played a shadow warrior for years in warhammer online That was my that was my on the order side That was my dog. They were the worst class in the game and I wouldn't stop playing it. So Tells you where I'm like um So at any rate, I like I just think shadow warriors bring good range. They can they they have good capabilities Especially in cover. They become very accurate. It's pretty easy to drop them in cover. They're a great ambush unit The reason I I really like the scourge runner chariot in addition to the aforementioned like ability to go battle line They're a little ravager harpoon Right. Yep. Um, that is two attacks three threes neg one d three damage Has the if you roll an unmodified six to hit it becomes d three mortals And I like ranged immortal wounds a lot so I'm weird like that The range on that is what for the for that shot Uh, the range on the ravager harpoon is 18 inches so perfectly reasonable I mean for a for a 12 inch move chariot like that's you know potential total 30 inch threat So, yeah, well, that's pretty amazing. Yeah, I saw this a lot While back with daughters of cayenne a fair amount. Yeah, people would be running I think they were back like 70 60 points. They're probably maybe they were 60 points. They were 60 points for a while. Yeah Yeah, so now but I mean Do you write these Gary scourge runners? Uh, I did. Uh, what are they in points now? They're 80. Yeah, they're 80 points now Yeah, the points is the only thing put me off at the most. I mean, I did see uh A guy called Peter. He was running like nine of them or maybe even more and When they were 60 points, and they're really good. Yeah, they've got the raw kind of Out for it. They've got the you know that I just think 80 is a little bit too much for them. 60 was probably a little bit too Yeah They kind of come down somewhere in the middle. They kind of you might see like a unit three going pop up again Like the 70 75 point ranges where they probably should live Yeah, exactly. That's what I think. You know a 200 ish point unit three and you'd probably Yeah, I interest a little any more than that. They tend to I think they're just a little bit too At the moment, but that's not my bad scroll Right. Yeah, I think that the the the guts is there. That's what showed when they got just a little bit too cheap They started popping up all over the place, right? Because all of a sudden they they turned on And you know, I'll like let me just also say these guys are six wounds So I mean that they do count as two on objectives in 3.0, which is never a bad thing Um So at any rate, um, yeah, they're they're interesting demographs. I absolutely love because they're on a base three up It's sad. They're four wounds That is unfortunate But they're actually quite a good attrition unit. Uh in either way, like I said, you can they can be very defensive You can give them the lances and they can kind of shock people off and then stand there and take it Or you can put them up at the halberds if you want to go for the more Uh Like kind of get stuck in fight and have your like and have kind of fake mini verringard is how they end up acting, right? One of my, uh, one of my friends was trying out math malo's sivannath's list that he's talking about a rob show faction focused for sivannath with six kronath bows And once he doing hardwood no not doing hard and all route for the real ones and then they all out attack So yeah, he shot his six bows buffed up as much as you can get him And he did like two damage to dimming a unit of six dimming grips Just because they were on like uh, uh, you know, they were on a two up save He had stacked a couple of mystics shield and all that defense Cancelled out the rinds and still gave him the plus one. So yeah He was uh, not enjoying that Yeah, quite quite a good mobile anvil that can do some damage as well Yeah, and somebody uh, david in the chat asked demographs in units of three or six depends on purpose You know, are you meaning to trade with them a little more aggressively than three? If you're trying to get them to be like an objective sitter They can sit there and hold and you use six because who cares the two can't attack They're just there to soak up looms and be on a three up save. So it's it's fine The new coherency doesn't hurt them that much when they're just meant to literally live Right. Yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah, really really interesting units Uh, let's see. Yeah I'm sure there's any others that really stand out. I mean that's kind of the big list for me Let's talk coalition Coalition units powerful options for coalition units This is like much like what we much like talking about any of the demon armies In chaos cities of sigmar is like your home for the best in coalition options Uh, because obviously these are every all the the uh cities basically Um, can have stormcast coalition. So one in four Um, and here I've listed some things that I think are going to be interesting. Yes I already put the dragon on here Suck it. Uh, he's already on the list. That's how much I love the dude I think he's gonna be good as a coalition dude to show up in this army Um, because he's gonna be a giant monster hero. I just I can't imagine this guy being bad. That's all I'm saying Um Zeroes is amazing like the zeroes is so incredible for what she is So incredible, it's probably not gonna last that is correct She the fact that she could give uh Reroll ones to hit to a massive radius that she can pop mortal wounds in a big aura that are even more damaging against demons That she's so fast because she's on like a 12 inch fly move Uh, that she's got a three up base save, you know, like there's she's a rock star in tempestine where in turn one She's getting the free plus one to save and moving 15 inches like All day all day all night. I'm in for this Um, I already talked about my venator tactics. I quite like the venator Um, so, you know in for that and then yin drasda Like yin drasda is a real standout as like a coalition to show up in any city any time anywhere Just ready to rock and roll fantastic in living cities with that spear because she can she can throw and float so easily um Yeah He works oh, sorry I was gonna say her ability actually specifically works on order not just storm cast. Yeah, so the battleship community is Just a great ability of the moment and it works in a city's army. You know, You know off the cuff, you know, it's it's there ready to go. You don't have to do any jank Just designed to almost be useful So, yeah, I would and for 300 points. He's just another one of those You throw enough rules onto a war scroll You know 300 points of this field. Yeah, she's great Any other I think that when we get the new storm cast book here in a couple weeks There's gonna be a lot of new options on this list. Let me just say that Oh, yeah Vindicta's on there now as well. Sure. That's the other one just because they do what the Kind of elite infantry in cities should be doing but to do it better Are your great swords or things like that, you know, the kind of the kind of do mortals but sit there and survive Vindicta's just do that better and with free up say, you know Right And more wounds or basically the same kind of points Um, they are just amazing as well. I would say that in my list is probably going to have 15 15 Or 10 If Schrodinger's battle line turns out to be true. Yes, then you can have 15 Yeah But yeah, they're basically better great You know, if you want to have that kind of rock in the middle of your backline with a with a lancing guy behind as well Just rocking a two up save We have with no Yeah, no cast no age I I and by the way, we know Vindicta's are getting cheaper in the book because they were on the the list So like even though Vindicta's just released at 140. We know they're going down to 130 So even more reason to think that they're going to be good Yep. Yeah, that's an amazing unit So then pay each and see if they've still got three up farmers. If they have Yep, absolutely Uh, and then also when if we do if we move out of the storm cast, which every city has Then let's talk about our other cities living city. Obviously can bring in sylvaneth I've just talked about a laurio. We've talked many times about all the potential we mentioned earlier Right with the ability to bring in like a tree lord ancient and start throwing down a woods So you can just chimp woods everywhere and get that kind of thing going on Uh settlers gain can bring in teclis or lumenethanonsense So you can have uh, you could have your your fox in your city's army Who doesn't want the flying fox in the city's army? He's moving around Like uh, like a lunatic because most of his abilities are again on scroll Right. He's this incredibly modular on scroll piece That really doesn't rely on much synergies from anywhere else to be effective at what he's doing Right. Tempest Eye allows Coradron overlords. I mentioned I use an iron clad Um, you can I also use a gun hauler Because that was the other thing I did mention earlier in the list like gun haulers are just exceptionally good Running around counting us multiples on an objective teleporting every round Basically because they can fly high always even if they've got one wound left packing relatively decent firepower per points cost like Gun haulers are great. They 140 still Uh 150 155. Yeah, there we go. Yes, okay Okay And then Har Kuron, which has a little bit more restrictions Uh, don't worry like W. Soren said Har Kuron and Marathi Why is that not on your list because we weren't on the on the faction specific page yet, Soren You gotta give me a minute, buddy We were in the generic coalition of stormcast Uh, but yeah, Marathi and all the daughters units in Har Kuron I mean as has been stated many times on this show and by anyone who has any kind of common sense in their head Marathi is one of the top three heroes in the game right now She is drastically under-costed and horrendously effective at what she does And the ability to just bring her into a city's list is pretty good Yeah, Gary hasn't Simon been trying out Har Kuron a fair amount He has apparently. Yeah, I don't think I've seen a bat rep where he's tried it in 3.0 Okay, I think about with ammahal living in cities Yeah, but yeah Yeah, he has you're right, but but nothing relevant Yeah, remember, yeah, I saw some games. Yeah, Marathi and I think Dark shards. Is that the repeater crossbow units? Yeah, yeah Yeah Nice Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen any games yet with Har Kuron a 3.0. Yeah curious to see what that might be looking like nowadays I've seen some people really standing Har Kuron in the new edition I mean probably all of those lists are going to include Marathi. Let's just be honest like there Can you get the snake bows combo in there? Yes, because you can absolutely. Yeah, it's it's it's 10 or 15 snake bows Like you can't take him as battle ants. It's gonna be 10 because you you need to have You can't have the snake lady general So it's gonna be 10, but you can have 10 snake bows and her supporting the rest of your city's army You see in units Isn't that hard like one of the nice parts about cities one of the one of the other really good things about gyrocopters I didn't mention it but like gyrocopters being as cheap as they are are just like the easiest way to Blow your your number of units way through the roof if you need to get to like I need to get to 12 units Okay, let me add three gyrocopters for 225 points and like there we go I just got to I just shot myself to 12 units, right or whatever so I can So I can have three of some other armies units in there And gyrocopters to the universal I need to add some some additional Unit count to this list All right Oh wow 75 not too bad. Yeah, they're great and they have a big aoe shot thing That's actually kind of interesting in the new edition They're fine They're not gonna do a ton of damage everybody reads those rules and they just start thinking in their head of like Oh my god, imagine all the amazing shots. I'm gonna get it's like it's on threes and fours guy So, you know like slow your roll a little bit like it's it's you still got to roll them dice. Yes. Sometimes you'll shoot like You know 22 shots and you'll feel like this is amazing. I this is incredible and then you'll get through the wounds You're like I did three wounds like all right Yeah, it's cool Yeah, that's awesome my ball Yeah, yeah, I mean you take gyrocopters because they're cheap. They're super fast. They're interesting mobile Even though there's only one little base If a board is set up with the proper terrain, it's amazing what gyrocopters can block Especially when you're dealing with bigger units Like the new dragons will be or like archion or a larial or whatever Like you can just set that little annoying base Exactly where you know the enemy giant pipe plate wants to land And just ruin their day because this tiny little 40 mil base is in the way of them getting that pipe plate Somewhere where they can actually land Yeah That's a good call So like we've been using the the terrain rules like the the better terrain rules like that we've talked about So we have impassable pieces on the board That's right And it very much makes or or even if you're using the current terrain rules And you actually use garrisonable features because those are impassable to to things right as it stands now Or with like the faction terrain that's impassable all I'll just use these little dudes to float around near that impassable terrain And suddenly Archeon's like Just extending the footprint of impossible terrain effect Effectively yeah, exactly and I'm like if you bring Archeon to kill my gyrocopter I am fine with that like I am super fine with that Waste that is the best use of that thing ever dying to Archeon right What a fantastic use of your 830 point model to kill to kill my 75 point copter Right like yeah, that's you are losing the game if you're needing to do that. So it's fine Okay, uh Allies I don't have a slide for allies, but my god their allies list is like it's just everything I don't know what to tell you man. It's it's it's basically the rest of order except seraphon So Daughters of cane fire slayers eigeneth deep can character and overlords except in tempest I silvaneth except in living city in gray water fastness. So like Go ham. I guess Yeah, at the top of that list though, he's going to surely Boom There he is. I've got a slide for him because when we're talking about allies All we actually are here to talk about is go track. Yes, correct this little ginger At 435 points, you know, one of the things I mentioned up top Is that I think there is a challenge in this army around Hammers Like you don't actually have any hardcore hammers Well, you certainly got some hardcore range hammers Like 30 iron drakes 30 iron drakes is good. It's not Look, my honest answer is it's good Hmm, it's not blow up the world good Okay, like it's like I'm not gonna I'm not at all crapping on 30 iron drakes. They're amazing. They're too good for their points. Okay Especially with that buff on them. Yeah, I see what you're saying in general though, right, but they don't have The hyper but like there are units in this game that can just stream in and drop just puke mortal wounds or outrageous high damage attacks with Big rend or stuff like that, right? And that's not really present in this army until this little ginger shows up Sure I mean, I I guess you get some of that through coalition, you know, like the shadow queen you can get in there Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but yeah, you're right and and c os proper Yes, and c os proper. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Some of that you can solve in coalition like I I I love the idea of a Like a settlers gain list That brings in techless and runs Go-trek and has like the tiny fleet master Uh Corsair or chariot battle line core Right and and I still have lots of points actually to play with there Like a shockingly high too many points probably to play with there to still have something else going on Um, I just think that's a really funny list or like a hark you're on with marathi and um And go trek running around Yeah, same way too many dock list already with starting with marathi 10 15 snake bows and go trek And you can still fit your other bad line and yeah, you're good to go. Yep stupid Uh, he asked I thought marathi was two slots. So if you want the snakes need like 12 units Yes, that's correct. But that's fine. Like again, it's really easy to get to 12 units very cheaply in cities Like it's not hard You can you can so easily like cities is an army that will very often have 10 to 12 units without flexing on the table Yep, go trek. He's too good. Please increase his points by at least 100. Thank you I think you can't just slap him into any list without Sure, sure I personally think he goes in hammerhole Okay You can make arguments for others, but you can't just pick a city at random Um, I think you've got to have a plan with him because he is So you've got to have Some kind of plan even if that plan is he's going to just you know move his four inches plus a run And deal with that part of the board while my army deals with that part of the board Yeah, uh, I I like him in hammerhole just because of the spells in hammerhole the uh Fly there's a fly spell with unlimited range so you can Yeah, you can just stab a stab a dread spear at the back of the board Unlimited range out of range of dispel Dispelled uh attempt right just go by the way go trek flying over the screen Enough to go Um, you can also go battle mage him Which you mentioned earlier because it the go battle mage can give plus two to run in charge And he can get targeted by that Exactly so, yeah, you you've got to have He is 435 points, but you you're almost spending another 100 200 point ish On kind of enablers for him. I think Yeah, it's not just the kind of I bought go trek therefore I win sure absolutely true I so one just one general question for you guys Yeah, we in our challenges show Gary We talked about the you know power per square inch concept events you've had for a long time And how we have a lower the average has been lowered now Excuse me on the number of objectives So like 20 ghp 2020 was the highest average in terms of objectives scenario that we had had Now we've lowered it quite a bit in my mind that has quite a bit to do with the challenges presented by these Powerful individual pieces or powerful units with go trick near the top of that list Do you think like how much of that is The challenge with these kind of pieces that we have so many more missions with small enough with basically three objectives Yeah, yeah exactly and you Well, it's smaller boards as well. It's not just It's in a smaller board and I thought to move It's suddenly a smaller percentage of that board space so he can get to where he needs a viral tactic previously The 2.0 was well, I'll just stay away from it. Yeah, you know And now you can't really do that or you can do it, but it's not as easy Yeah You're funneling these enablers in Um, but yeah, it's a definite definite thing to worry about. I think that's where the power of When I say god models, you know Yeah, he's in that kind of class That's where these god models are shining in the early days of 3.0 Is the fact that they don't have to be everywhere they only have to be one third of the battle and The objectives are so close to each other that once they've dealt with that objective It's just one movement by the way to get the next you know, and Everything off that one as well You know in a five turn game They they dominated two objectives with an outside chance of even doing the third is right Um, again go trek does that extraordinarily well and importantly I think go trek is the thing that gives the city's army the ability to compete with these other You know, right? There is this chance that you play archaeology with the city's live with Yeah, your normal soul and you won't do anything That's a good point. Yeah You take your go trek and I mean, I was talking to uh mark the other day about Mark Wildman It's almost like there's two games at the moment. There is the games where you are playing 3.0 with no god model and And Great, but then there is the games where you have god models and you both need to have one because other Just slants and it becomes like you're you're playing two different games, you know player a is playing You know god model 3.0 and player being playing non god model and the mismatch is just terribly apparent Just the city's you know, so if you're going to be playing that kind of game That's your that's your biz. That's your steak. That's your you know, I mean kind of Um, and yeah, again, that's what you can do miraculously And that's why cities You can do sectors There are other options, but I think that's why Because they can sometimes you know what I'm going to do this, you know, the matter swinging I'll do this the moment I think go trick the best one just because everything's kind of pointing due kind of negash or archae on at the moment and Have a steak in that game Yeah, yeah, I agree All right. Well, there we go. That's cities. Like I said, I'm I'm excited because I'm gonna I'm excited enough I'm taking them to a tournament and it should be a really fun Uh, we'll see how it all works out. I don't have go track in my list I thought about making a little cyber go track, but I decided against it because I'm a better person than that Uh But at any rate, uh, thank you all so much for watching We hope you enjoyed this talk about cities if you did. Hey, why not hit that like button? It's so easy. It's so fun And all your friends will think you're cool when you do it. So you should do that Hit like subscribe if you haven't already obviously gary. Thank you so much for being on the show, buddy Really appreciate you coming Tyler as always a pleasure for all of you out there watching. Thank you so much as always We'll see you next wednesday