 about that. Tyler, T-Rex welcome. Hey thanks for having me. That's great to be here. It's good to see you here at this event. Great keynotes. I don't know if you were upstairs. The place was packed. Yeah I mean it's it's been an amazing week so far and our week started off with a great nod from Citrix. We won the Citrix Technology Solution of the Year which is a huge way to start your week and you know what we are is we're a software company that makes solutions that enable this desktop transformation. I think you both hit on it. It's it's an amazing time to be an end user computing or workspace computing or desktop computing or whatever you know the functional term is we're going to use and and my belief or my theme that I've carried through this week is that you know a lot of the organizations that we're working with a lot of the platforms that we're working with as well want to get the organizations the end users the the enterprise back to the businesses that they're in. It's originating loans or it's you know prosecuting lawsuits if you're a law firm or it's making widgets or whatever it is you know and I think that's part of the whole transformation that's that's at hand and so you know the keynotes even though I only cut snippets of them you know I see those themes carrying through. So talk about your your company you're the co-founder obviously you're an entrepreneur you're out in the trenches you we've been talking yesterday about this IT recovery is one of the big mega trends that's powering this IT refresh we see companies like LinkedIn going public Twitter is at a zillion dollar valuation Facebook is going to go public all this stuff's happening it's crazy out there in the market people have a thirst for this new innovation that's booming with cloud you're on the front lines you've also lived through some tech generation where you know it's been a tough past five years with the tech it's been some innovation but it's been like an inch at a time one the moving the ball one yard at a time sure now with cloud we're moving the ball down the field in a big way what what is your perspective on on as an entrepreneur and your company you're in the middle of the front lines talk about that transformation of these this recovery this tech recovery this innovation cycle. Yeah I mean I think it goes it goes back to the theme that we want to get back to the core businesses that we're engaged in you know in the enterprise and really what I found ourselves or what we find ourselves in the business of is I think risk mitigation and it's in kind of an odd term to use it's an odd term to throw out there but you know there's a perception of risk in the adoption of any new technology whether it's you know virtualization or ethernet when it first came out or using email at you know at an organization it's what CIOs care about right exactly you know first on their list first on their risk is I've got to mitigate risk and I've got to be able to functionally serve the lines of business that I've been you know put in charge of procuring and provisioning technology out to so what we're seeing you know and I think you're you're spot on is you know in this revitalization of of the workspace you know I've kind of gotten away from using the term desktop as well but in this revitalization we'll get that in a second so we'll hold that point where it's you know theoretically any device any place any time my stuff I mean that's maybe the holy grail that we're all trying to get to you know the perception of risk that there's a number of different you know solutions and a lot of them are filling this hall you know here here this week I mean there's there's vendors from you know all over the world with solutions that handle one part of the problem or the storage challenge or the remote access challenge or you know you can go through the the litany of different bullet points that are out there and what we're trying to do at liquid or labs is provide visibility so that the decision makers are armed with factual data as opposed to you know guesswork when they're making their technology choice decisions the data also is a big part of it we've been covering on the cube for over a year now and most recently on our summer tour emc world sap sapphire we're here now such a synergy we have a hold on the set of events we're going to go and get the data but this is all about the new data model and people want fast data which we we coined that term and around you get cloud data is no longer a a parked away concept of data warehousing fenced in the corner some archival kind of bs system right this is really part of the value proposition where you know mobile devices need real-time information location data and users are pouring more data back into the system so the tsunami of data and the value of the data is critical can you talk about that well i mean it's interesting i i had a uh a presentation i delivered a couple weeks ago and i had the my opening slide said users only do two things they either consume content or create content right and what we're getting good at with all these new flexible devices and these new workspaces that we can work in we're creating a lot more stuff right and so the the hope is that that's always available whether i'm at any device any place any time i'm on an airplane i'm on a beach in tahiti i'm in the corporate you know campus it's got to be made available to me and then you're spot on that the growth of that data certainly isn't slowing down it's it's rapidly accelerating Tyler we love to use sports analogies we've been called the the espn of tech where are we in the game of of desktop virtualization is it the bottom of the first uh you know what the first third of the game where are we and and what do we have to do to go mainstream so this might sound tacky but i think we're at that that closing line of the star spangled banner and everyone's got their hands over their hearts and the kind of goosebumps start i mean i feel that kind of energy this week and it might sound tacky to say that but that's the best sports at algae of course i'm five foot two and i'm bald so i wasn't really a sports guy but you know in my world of sports it's it's the national anthem and we're ready to go take the field everyone's trying to take their hats back on start cheering the clapping starting i mean you heard the applause up there at the keynote i mean you could hear it down here there were one or two stories above us and it reverberated down here i think game on so okay so game on so the star the star spangled banner is completed game on but this has not been i mean the minor leagues have been going on for virtualization of the desktop for a year a long time it's just been a big player in that but i mean so this new environment talk about that and then to talk about desktop why do we call it the desktop do you have any conspiracy theories there i mean it's just a horrible word right it just needs to go away why so i think that the last you know for a lot of years we've been calling it the year the desktop so maybe to keep on our sports analogy it's been three years of tryouts there's been a lot of kind of starts and stops there's been a lot of false positives if you will but you know when when we're at the present state of the conversation which is this kind of notion of user-centric computing data-driven design we're using real information to make real decisions as opposed to you know kind of buying off of powerpoint which maybe we were all a little guilty of for the last you know couple of years you know and so when i think about the term desktop you know i've almost tried to eliminate that from my vocabulary and i think about a functional workspace and it's what does my cio and the lines of and the lines of it have to provision back to me so i can do the job that i'm paid to do now i kind of simply put it we create content or we consume content now what are the applications that go into that what's the device i'm going to be sitting at you know we started using terms like device not desktop so sap sapphire last week the word desktop i didn't come up once that i could recall mobile was the big theme you know living your life that's the consumerization of it people go to work i mean people who go to work have realized they're watching Netflix at home that's right they got cable they're doing normal things they're on the run they're checking in they're using their mobile devices so so this changes the game and i don't think we should be as scared of this kind of convergence of those technologies i mean you know we we i think have entered a place where the technology that i have and i buy for my personal life is probably more powerful than what i've been provisioned for the last 20 years and you know the from the it department and it's okay for those technologies to confer converge and i think a lot of those uh past barriers and past silos where that was your stuff and this is our stuff it's kind of being broken down i see it more fluid in the future tyler we have the pre and post ipad era right and we're clearly in the post ipad era and that should be john the catalyst to get us out of this desktop nomenclature but but but t-rex we saw on the at the keynote today the drawbacks of wireless right so we had demos going on templeton was uh and his people were giving demos and and the the the joke was hey i was on the beach when you called i'm going to i'm going to go into your pc and i'm going to make some fixes but the wireless didn't work right so so i mean that's still a big barrier today isn't it totally agree and i mean i remember you can go back to kind of the original launch of the ipad i remember when uh when jobs was up there on stage you had to tell all the reporters and analysts and bloggers to turn off their wi-fi because you know he couldn't get connectivity and so you know we're still in that kind of tender stage that fragile stage where you know absolutely pervasive and high speed networks are not absolutely everywhere i mean we like to think that you know it's it's here we can get 3g or 4g or you know we can be connected at all times it's not quite here yet so i mean i think those those kind of things still need to evolve they still need to come to fruition that the notion of being disconnected goes away when the notion of being disconnected goes away and i truly can get you know full access on any beach in any plane in any office building on any continent in in a reliable way that's a game changer what you're calling that is that a 2012 thing 2015 what should god tell you i think we're 24 months i think we're i think we're two years away from from that notion being true and i'm not sure if it's the googles of the world that solve that i'm not sure if it's some of the technologies that are here on the floor at synergy american airlines american airlines baby jib blue yeah i'm john furrier we're here with tyler from liquid wear labs your entrepreneur talk about the user experience you mentioned it before we came on that you know obviously that's a big part of what you guys are enabling that's right with your technology you want an award for it called out by citrix is number one in your area but you know we hear from these announcements you know a lot of this media enterprise consumerization messaging desktop virtualization blah blah blah but the reality is if you look at some of the things that they're announcing like open stack like a project olympus you're talking about a developer environment that's emerging so one of the things that's hot on the consumer side is obviously rapid application deployment right which is really high speed fast and really putting an emphasis on cool new relevant applications so the speed of deployment with cloud on the entrepreneur side it's a no brainer we know that group on started on the cloud we know that zingas started on the cloud so the enterprise has got to start on the cloud so how is that changing one the developer environment out there what components to developers need to be successful and two how is the user experience changing the what is deployed in the enterprises so i'll take two first so in my in my experience and from what we've seen working with enterprise customers around the world you know because there's this perception that some of these architectures that we're putting together and deploying and delivering out to them are somewhat more complex i don't think they're entirely wrong i mean we've got you know end points we've got network spanning globes and continents we've got hypervisors and hosts and virtual applications and storage virtualization all these different layers and you know the bottom line is it is intrinsically more complex and so one of the things that we've really focused on from a product standpoint and what we've been very successful out in the market with is this notion of stratosphere ux ux stands for user experience well what is user experience means it means following the wire of each and every one of those different layers that's now touching the delivery of that workspace that you know you're now you're now working inside of and from a developer standpoint that's a that's a completely uh a different topic as well but really uh i think intertwined simply because you know as they're looking to put together these different layers of the cake that go into whatever that fluid dynamic workspace or application or cloud delivery is or s as a service or blank as a service um you know there's a huge amount of opportunity out there so we're really excited you know how the the last 20 years meets where we are today and where we're going to be you know three to five years from now because there's a huge amount of of convergence that we see happening we're here with tyler roar from liquid liquid where labs t rex as he's known that's right uh t rex help us squint through the maze of platforms here you've got microsoft you've got vmware you've got citrix where do they fit and uh where do you see all that going well that's that's a little bit of a loaded question but i'll take it i'll take it we gotta talk about our you know people in our community want to know i mean it's a it's a great question i mean you have uh not only a choice of possible platforms but you also have a choice of technologies within those platforms you know so from the hypervisor to the presentation layer to the application delivery and application virtualization solutions that are out there you know all the way down to the storage choices that we make you know there's a lot of of possible combinations that you can use to put together the solutions that meet the use case that you're trying to you know the problem that you're trying to solve you know and it really is interesting i think that a lot of times it's driven off of preference um we see a lot of organizations that might have a preference for a hypervisor that tend to go that way uh in terms of the the presentation layer we also see a lot of organizations that have a preference in terms of application delivery and of course you know in that case they're going to go with the citrix based solution for zen desktop and and even within those subtleties there are also individual use cases within the enterprise when you take you know an enterprise with you know 50 000 users and you think about all the different job titles you know that are happening within that enterprise and quite typically there's a different silo or stack of solutions that are combined to give that folk folks a functional workspace. T-Rex I got to ask you the question because you guys have been very successful and you have a good view across all the different vendors the IT economy is refreshing things are going public the marketplace and wall streets on fire um and companies are rebooting right there's a refresh in vmware with paul maritz coming on board i mean that company has transformed themselves over the past three years significantly from a server license bad business model to purely cloud-enabled a lot of software initiative got spring sourced there you got you got citrix here looking perfectly poised and really captured some great market share gains and then you got microsoft okay so they're changing obviously the doj is let go yep of their ankles okay unshackled them agreed and so you're seeing some moves by microsoft but they got that bloated legacy right microsoft has that you know mishmash of piled on web 1.0 pre-web 1.0 technology so so talk about the difference in the vendors microsoft vmware and citrix and how do you see those vendors and how do you talk to customers they all have them right or one one flavor of the other and they're all rebooting at the same time so it's like a perfect storm well it's a it's a perfect storm but at the same time i keep going back to this notion of inertia which is when you look at the market as we look at the market you know of possible desktops to touch an influence out there i mean there's 600 million people that are probably on xp and some of them are starting to go to windows 7 i mean that's a huge install base so it's a lot of inertia to change right was the numbers on that oh i think maybe 600 million or so you know i mean i think that's huge is that it's pretty big number right it's a pretty big addressable market but that's you know all the laptops a hundred points a rounding error at this stage but you know the point is that it's a lot of stuff to move and so from a platform standpoint you know you have to look at microsoft and take them very seriously because they have and have owned and controlled the majority of that inertia for the last you know 20 years or so then you start looking at you know the first wave of transformation which was you know vm were with with their hypervisor that you know came out and revolutionized the way that we we virtualize you know servers now we're here at citric synergy the buzz is about desktop and user computing and how we transform you know the workspace that these users work at i think it's going to be exciting time microsoft and microsoft what about those guys i think it's too early to call count them in i think it's too early to count them out how's that i mean that's uh that's about his benign answers like i mean they're obviously they're obviously working beavering away in corporate development they made some big moves they bought skype they're in nokia there's some moves there's some other discussions going on bing is completely integrated into facebook i mean microsoft has got some big armies moving down the direction which completely is different from microsoft i mean their old unified communication was basically voice over ip stuff hobbled together with a bunch of legacy stuff right now you got skype at the middle of that you got nokia oh and you've got you've got possible uh entry by apple now yeah enterprise you've got google chrome you know chrome os maybe coming out before we know what i mean amazon out there but lady god out there for 99 cents for an album i mean they got massive adoption so yeah what's that look like i mean how do you read that read the tea leaves in the marketplace well i mean so the way i read the tea leaves is you know we're trying to stay we try to stay you know cognizant and aware of where the conversation where the movie might play itself out but at the same time what we're tasked with is building tools that enable the different platforms and the different partners that we work with you know like citrix and their value-added resellers that are here and their customers that are here you know to handle the current conversation as well so it's it's kind of a it's a dual-purpose mission that we're on we have to both be aware of okay what's happening in the operating system what's happening in the cloud what's happening with you know the migration of it but at the same time what does what does the enterprise want to work on this week you know what's the what's the problem they're trying to solve this week and a lot of times it's where am i you know what is my current state and what are my options to move forward you guys do a lot of assessment to help them along we do i mean it's it's it's kind of in the boring but important category isn't it i mean you gotta do that services angle absolutely i mean it's vital in terms of adding business value you've got to start and take a baseline where am i today exactly you know what are my objectives how am i going to get from point a to point b i like to use the analogy of google maps if you don't know your starting point it's really hard to get turned by turn directions and so we've actually kind of watched the business of all from you know that notion of assessment of lifting up the hood of the company and seeing where exactly are we unless you use the geobutton at the current location yeah current location i'm here that's true yeah wherever the hell i am there's an app for that that's called virtualization yeah there's there's an app for that but now we're kind of going into this this phase we think that's more about data driven design so it's actually using the results of the drill down on that that's important now that's a really good pivot because data data driven design is not just one dimensional can you just go into detail on that absolutely i mean so a data driven design is basically going through the following theory it's saying okay if i have a good understanding of what i have provisioned out to my users today and i've got a good understanding and visibility into what they're actually consuming and i can take that data and actually make logical business and technology choices in so far as the options that are available to me so for example am i a type one client hypervisor am i an application stream to an ipad am i zen desktop am i something that's you know hybrid of the two or three um you know that's what we're that's what we're starting to see the conversation lead to in the enterprise and so you know our mission in the next quarter or so will be to deliver a solution that follows that can citrix actually create this hardened top that the people talk about i mean with their virtualization they've got a really compelling messages people apps divide people divide connect with the devices apps and then ultimately the public clouds basically personal private public can they make a run at that and abstract away the technology that neither do they really need to do work with sysco and these guys and or is that kind of just hardened technology well i mean you know it takes a village so that's again another probably tacky line to say but you know we're out there you know working with these different projects and working with the different customers working with the different partners and the platforms i mean it takes all of those kind of coming into coming into tune almost like a symphony tuning up or a band tuning up uh you know it takes the storage vendor it takes the storage optimization vendor it takes the host vendor it's like jazz musicians is michael shawn yeah it really is you know so it's kind of a little free form in the beginning but now i think we're all starting to find that cadence we're starting to find that tune so i would actually answer your question by saying you know what i've seen here this week so far you know is is an orchestration of the message and an orchestration of the technologies you know to be able to address exactly what you just asked which is we have to work together because it is it it takes more than one piece of the puzzle to make the whole workspace you know deliverable to the temple they call that the front door okay right and showed some demos and you know seems to me he who or she who owns the front door has a lot of leverage you certainly and so citrix is putting forth a set of products and services to really be that front door i could see a lot of companies wanting to be that front door i mean clearly microsoft today is the front door sure uh but that model is changing vmware wants to be but just because you have server virtualization doesn't mean you should do desktop virtualization well i mean they want to own the back door too david their net scaler cloud bridge is basically the back door so they want to say hey we got the private the public in a way what they're trying to do is squeeze the private right so to me what i see citrix doing is saying hey we got a lot of stuff on the front at front end front door go to meeting go to pc 100 million people touch citrix it's always been kind of cool but not really great as far as i'm concerned in terms of a seamless great user experience it's works we do our meetings on it's fantastic product but in terms of like hitting mainstream it's got to be really mature to mature at the front door private cloud is a lot of hype everyone's on their journey to the private cloud and then you got the public cloud which is the real deal dev ops you got entrepreneurship going on in there sure and it's good well i think private cloud is the real deal it's just a matter of okay so what you know what's next what's the intersection of that private and public is that hybrid hybrid cloud is not real right now hybrid clouds a lot of power points well that's what i'm saying i mean i think what i'm seeing the presentation through the messaging is that hey we got front door and back door make the middle sandwich whatever you want you want ham you got ham you want turkey you put it in well to me what makes citrix so attractive right as they are they have a great strategy for the front door in the back door that's why my question what's vmware's front door so vmware's front door is view it might be horizon it might be view it might be horizon maybe it's zimbra i mean but i think you're both spot on or zimbra or or or maybe you know i guess it could be front door or back door is spring right yeah i mean as well they have yet to enable to me any true apps that are mainstream i mean i don't wake up and go hey i got to use that vmware zimbra i mean you know there's a lot of people using zimbra but it's like you know it's not number one or number two who they might debate that i mean hey we looked at it hard but we went elsewhere you know it's called google docs well i mean you can't count google out right i mean microsoft's got office i mean so this we brought this up at sap i mean the app market in the cloud is wide open i could see how about sap taking out citrix now that would be an interesting marriage sidebase they got the mobile play they could make things i can this company remain acquisition proof i mean this really interesting assets here i think it's a really undervalued company at fifteen billion dollar market cap date i gotta say i got a good vibe from these guys good team they're still small but big um then i think they're kind of in that that that b level and you know joe tuti talks about emc being the littles of the big citrix is the same thing i see them as one of the littles of the big and need to kind of take that big next step and i i just think an acquisition would be sweet i look at this way citrix has this roughly the same market cap as net app what which company do you think is more strategic to cio's going forward i think citrix i would say so i would say well no offense to net app but i mean if you got net app drives or their disc we know how powerful storage i think spinning rust i mean yes i mean t rex what do you think about this i'm not going to touch that one no i mean i would we're an elite party with net app we're in a great partnership with them um i would actually answer if i point you guys made a couple seconds ago which is you know it's the ability to converge its ability to be both the front door as well as the point of of congregation or or the traffic cop if you will that brokers your public cloud stuff and your private cloud stuff and obviously the the components that go into making that and i i mean my personal belief it's a little too early to call the ball on who's going to emerge i mean i'm i'm intrigued by what all the platforms are doing i still think that you know google i wouldn't count them out of anything um i think it's except maybe the itunes race i mean i want to set down with pat gelsinger who's been on the queue but at least almost half a dozen times now uh who's the president of emc um came from intel he knows morse law guys legend in the tech business uh we're fanboys of pat gelsinger he talks about it utility and in reality this is what we're going to is an it utility environment to get the kind of end user experience you're talking about you need to have these utility based services it's totally possible i mean if we if we are buying everything as a service from storage to apps to platform to to connectivity as a service everything's a service you know maybe that gets us back to the theme that i'm kind of hearing which is it gets us back to the core function of the business that is businesses that were in whether it's selling widgets or you know originating loans and so you know it's a promising time to be in the business day the co-CEO of the co-CEO of SAP jim hagam and snobby came on the queue last week and sat down for 30 minutes with david and i said he loved the queue by the way he said he loved the queue but you know he pointed out something really compelling i want to get your opinion on this um we are living in an innovation cycle you know cisco has talked about like oh it's not a time for consolidation it's time for innovation yet they're laying off zillions of people five thousand people plus um yet snobby is also saying and they're actually investing he says we are living in a massive innovation cycle what is your thoughts on that and you know as as an entrepreneur not so much you know here at the show looking out in the marketplace where do you see the innovation pockets emerging what's that thermal that's going to suck the growth out i mean i think it's it's almost sheer magic what some of the applications are that are being you know created out there in the cloud i mean you know i think back not even a year ago well maybe it was a year ago i mean i got my first ipad and i was kind of fascinated by all the applications this is actually the first week i've survived by only using that tablet device i'm kind of proud that you know i've untethered myself if you will but what amazes me is the innovation that's happening at the application layer and it again sounds cheesy to say but you know those applications make my life richer they make me more productive member of my company and allow me to do more stuff and so i mean i think we're in a magical time of innovation and i'm not sure if it's the device right i just gave you kind of a device angle i'm not sure if it's the applications that are being written out uh written on it it's a preferred user experience right there's a the people out there have tasted the new model the new way they like it they like it i prefer this i want more of this this is the way i agree i agree and i think that you know it it's the way i want to do my my work it's the way i want to do my job is with the device these rip out rich applications you know in the flexibility to work any place any time and the whole follow me application model or follow me data model or follow me desktop whatever you want to follow me on twitter at furrier um no but this is a good this is a good point i mean so in your expert opinion um and also you're a partner with citrix you won an award you're number one in your area you guys are doing great liquid ware labs uh with your products and your services what does citrix need to do to go mainstream because not a lot of people know about citrix they're kind of like an you know it's like citrix what do they do again they know zen has been open source following citrix has always been in their business but now they got this market position what do they need to do to really win the day well i mean the interesting thing is if you go up and down wall street or up and down mainstream you'll actually find a lot of citrix products in some of the use cases within those those organizations so it's kind of interesting and so what i think you know is blossoming now is the fact that there's you know a breadth of solutions that are available that cover a lot more use cases than we you know kind of used uh you know in the past in the past decades so you know the answer of the question of what we what we all need to do now is you know raise our game i mean the conversation has changed this isn't applications installed on x86 wind tell architecture anymore and so the vernacular is different the architectures are different the technology is different and the things we need to know you know as consultants and thought leaders in the space are different and guess what they're different than they were a year ago so i can only imagine where the evolution goes in the next 12 months it's exciting so tyler um how about a plug for liquid layer liquid wear labs i'll get it right at some point um where are you guys at uh how can people you know reach you do you have like a trial version of your your tools tell tell folks uh how they can access that sure thanks for thanks for that uh so w w w liquid wear labs dot com is our website we've got uh you know complete videos that explain the solutions that go from assessment to design to migration to profile and user space solutions all the way through to user experience validation which we think is you know the holy grail the the more successful projects get larger quicker and that's really what we're all about you know whether we're a platform or whether we're a cio of a company so liquidwear labs dot com you can follow me at t underscore rex underscore vdi on twitter and i'm just really psyched to be here thanks for inviting me guys you're welcome who do you sell to who's your is it the cio cto it's a great question so there's actually a couple different markets that we that we play with in um you know we have a one go to market strategy which is enabling the large platforms to use our software to go out and do professional services work and to right size and to help scale the the organizations that they're working with and we also have a value-added reseller community that we go out and enable with the software and then of course we have cio's desktop administrators folks that own application and performance viability within the enterprise that buy the software solutions as well so it's uh it's been a great couple of years since we started the company in 2009 and you know of course the future looks very robust and everything's changing what's your opinion on david i've been talking about this notion of services angle the angle on the new services and and that's kind of uh um it's got two meanings right this services business of consultancy and you know from boutiques that are emerging and growing like crazy with the cloud to the big guys like csc and others um they actually go out and do the consultancy with sap we talk to those guys and you know that's old school big money suits guys with suits milking the dollars deployment a year later right so that's and then the other hand services that companies can offer to their customers web services if you will our cloud services what's your angle on that business how has it changed in the past year i think there's actually services innovation happening as well i mean that's kind of uh you know a cop out answer perhaps but you know what i mean by that is that in so far as some of the old school notions that we had about the folks in the suits coming in the big blues coming in and you know doing the consulting services and you're giving you uh you know a deliverable that was six thousand they say it down a river in a year later you spend a million dollars and you got loaded erp application it's changing because you know there we are all being compelled to be innovative and whether it's the products that are becoming more innovative the applications or the services offerings they're more intelligent and you know it's easy to say but we're seeing it out there in the market we do a lot of work with the large system integrators some of the names that you mentioned and some others as well and we're watching a very rapid evolution of what they're offering to the large enterprise right down to the smb customer the mid-market customer for that matter and it's being it's being driven by all the stuff that we're seeing here on the floor at synergy because all this stuff counts now and it's all part of the vocabulary and part of the conversation and if you're not fast in innovating your services okay so what's the what how does the cio or someone in it evaluating the courses on the track yep how do they handicap the the services players is there criteria in your mind is it is it speed is it deployment is a team is it what how do you how would you share with the cio buddy of yours when he's like hey i need to t-rex give me give me the bottom line of how should i what scorecard what how should i scorecard these guys there's a couple there's a couple different ways that i would answer that but i mean i think the first and maybe most important thing is if the if the services provider doesn't stand up in front of you and ask you what problem are you trying to solve they probably automatically go down and down in my my checkmark list of folks to work with me because this this technology for technology sake is worthless if it's not solving a problem you know then it's all for not and so you know if a system integrator or service provider stands up in front of you and says hey mr customer what mr cio what what problem are we trying to solve here today that's a great way to start the conversation you know and from there i think that having competencies in the different the different technologies that we see here today and almost all of them are rapidly kind of supersizing their practices if you will what's your final question is for me and then Dave might have one more but my final question is what's your advice to folks that are in the consultancy businesses i have friends who have started because of the recession in 2008 their own consultancy one man shop grown to six people 15 now 30 right growing like crazy they're new to the game with the delivering real value what's your advice to those guys in terms of how to navigate these new waters of this explosion of innovation you know my my best answer for that is you got to come to conferences like that you've got to be aware with your google alerts or your your mailing list that you sign up for of the of the emergence of all these new technologies i mean there's probably a technology a week that i see on my google alerts and i'm like whoa that's going to be a game changer or oh my gosh that's doomed for failure but you've got to at least be aware be a great blogger right yeah i'm repenting in my uh my ability to ask people so um no i think you've got to be aware of the ecosystem or the ecosystem and and you know a lot of us got um you know we kind of grew up with the first wave of server virtualization right and that got kind of easy over the decade or so that it happened and this conversation that we're all a part of right now is is is moving more rapidly there's more solutions that are available and it and it kind of counts more because it's touching the end users who are the lifeblood of of the organization tyler t rex roar liquid ware labs founder ceo great energy thanks to founder not not ceo but founder oh i had i had you a ceo i'm so co-founder co-founder so co-founder what is your role there i work on a lot of our alliance partnerships i work with a lot of the platforms that we're doing work with today and a lot of the system integrators as well so man of many hats all right well startups you got to do that we need more start up again one more time for the folks out there t underscore rex underscore vdi okay all right tyler thanks very much for coming on