 Welcome back, welcome back. Thank you for staying with us and if you are just joining well, you are on time for the first conversation of the day around career. And today we want to talk about a very interesting topic, accountability. So what exactly is it? How can accountability help you progress in life and career? And we also have a twist to it to look at accountability in men specifically because we are joined by a masculinity advocate who is also a media personality. I'm talking about Austin Aguanda. Kari Musana Austin. Thank you. Glad to have you with us. Yeah. So who is the masculinity advocate for those that are wondering? A masculinity advocate is basically empowering the boy child, being able to give the men a safe space to have a discussion on masculinity, their identity, share their wounds, tell their story, and just to engage them on how they are supposed to be there in the community even in our modern time. So being a masculinity advocate means that we are able to do a problem for them and educate them on what it means to be a man defining the role and just having a discussion on what it means to be a man in the modern day. Okay, quite interesting. Because you've mentioned it, what does it mean to be masculine in the modern day? In the modern day, a man is supposed to define a man in four ways. A man should be able to take initiative. So I will define a real man as a man who takes initiative, is a man who lives responsibly, is a man who loves faithfully, and is a man who wants to live a life for legacy. What do you want to be remembered for? So we take it in terms of the four, takes initiative, loves faithfully, lives sacrificially, and lives a worthwhile legacy. So that is how we define masculinity. Wow, quite interesting. I mean, we can go into that and maybe we will at the end of it because I'm very curious what the four mean, what they entail. But now let's take a look at accountability generally fast and especially in career. So what is accountability in the first place? Accountability, I look at it in terms of a way or a system that makes you to grow as a person. In the career times, people look at accountability as a way of answering to a person, which is true, but it's more of reshaping your character, having somebody that is guiding you through life. So as much as people look at it in terms of answering to a person, it's more of it reshapes your character by having someone that is guiding you through life, family, relationship in your career. Like now in the media industry, you'll have a boss who you are accountable to. So the boss is able to guide you. So someone that can be able to, you have a conversation and you report to and you are vulnerable to and have honest conversation. So that's what accountability is. You have said someone you are vulnerable to and then you've mentioned, given an example of a boss, but how realistic is that? Can you be vulnerable to your boss? It depends with the relationship you have. But even in the job industry, you'll find that at one point you'll be able to have not even your boss, but in that space where you are as maybe a colleague, an accountability partner, somebody who is keeping you on check. It does not mean necessarily to be your boss. That might be sometimes a bit funny, very hard. Being that now you look at your boss in terms of how you look, you view your boss. It might be not easy to be vulnerable, but have somebody who is keeping you on check. Maybe you have an ambition, a goal where you want to achieve. So the person is keeping you on check in terms of that space that you're supposed to do. So basically, it's someone you can be answerable to. And someone to, as you've said, keep you in check. So that's an accountability partner that you need to have. And we'll want to talk about being accountable to yourself first before we get into that. But first, what is the difference between responsibility and accountability? Because some people also confuse that you. There's responsibility, and this is to self now. Responsibility and accountability. Being responsible, I look at it in terms of it starts with you, but being honest with your responsible as a person. That means there's a certain aspect of discipline that you, what do I say? That a certain aspect of discipline that you put, but when you look at accountability, you morally depend on the other person to be, that comes from the other person. So that you identify a person who you can be able to share, or a person who can be able to have that particular, who is honest with you, who will look you to the eye and say, Stephanie, why are you coming to work late? Somebody who's not afraid to tell you the truth. Look eye to eye and be able to guide you and even in your career. So somebody who can be able to guide you through life because you can't do life alone. But in terms of responsibility, it starts from you. You take that particular initiative. Once you are responsible, then you become accountable to the other person. Okay, now I get you, and that's still on accountability by someone else. But if I define it as responsibility being more on task oriented, so you have this that you have to do, and then the results now, you take ownership of the results, the outcome of it. So whether it was good or bad, now you are accountable to it. You are sort of in a position to explain what happened. And if something went wrong, you take accountability, ownership of that. Can that be a distinction? Yeah, that can be an extension, because you are responsible of whatever you do. So whatever you are doing in your life and whatever discipline you put in your life that you're going to do, it comes, it might have a positive out of it. It might have a consequence out of it. So the decision you make as an individual of what you do, it comes with positivity and also consequences based on what you have decided to do. So is it good to be accountable to yourself in accordance to work that you have done? Yeah, it's advisable to be honest to yourself. You have to be honest to yourself. You know yourself personally. Maybe other people who doesn't know some part of you, but you can be able to know part of yourself. So when you are honest with yourself, it makes you productive because you're not lying for yourself. You're not lying. You know what you are capable of, even in that particular workplace. You can pretend, but now for how long will you be able to pretend? So you've said accountability also involves being honest. Yeah, accountability means being honest, being vulnerable because you'll want to know more, you'll want to inquire more because somebody is guiding you through life. There's something we normally say in our group of men that men are made men in the company of other men. So you are not only self-made. Even with your colleagues, you cannot be self-made as an individual. You need others to be able to guide you. So you need a band of people to be able to do life with. You can't be self-made. You can't rise alone. So you need people to be around you, to guide you in one or two areas. Okay, and I love the coach you've said. Men are made men in the company of other men, and truly you are really an advocate of men's masculinity. Before we get into another men's discussion, because we're getting there, as in still in the workplace in leadership, how does accountability and leadership look like? You are the boss, so how are you accountable in the workplace, and how does that increase productivity? When you are accountable to, let's say you are accountable to your boss, it means... No, the boss now being accountable to you. In the workplace, how does it look like? How can the boss be accountable? Yeah, so the boss can be accountable to the employees. Because one, everyone in the workplace might see you as somebody who doesn't have issues. Flows, yes. Doesn't have flaws. So when you're in a workplace and you can be able to show your employees that it is not always that I have it all together. So that they don't think that you are in a space where you don't go through anything. You come to the office, you don't have issues. So sometimes as a boss you have issues and it interferes with how you relate with the employees. Maybe you come, you're angry and nobody understands, and maybe the employees are not also in a position to ask you, are you okay? And also him in that position is not able to start having a conversation because of the hierarchy between the job description. So the boss can be able to be accountable to the employees, being able to show that sometimes things can go right, that sometimes things can go wrong, show that the other side of him, apart from being an administrator, apart from being the leader of that particular company, you should be able to show that other side so that it also makes the people you work with have ease. Because if they only see one aspect of you just give tasks, you always do this, do this, do this. Because sometimes it gives that space for also other employees so that they can also be able to share. Maybe they want an increase on salary, they don't know how to approach you, but you have not given them that room to be able to express that because they have not seen that side of you. So it makes the delivery of the company so easy. And so because the relationship between the boss and the employees becomes easy. And in an instance where the boss takes ownership of maybe something that went wrong, something he was supervising, it's easy for a leader to do blame game. But when the boss takes his own share or own share of blame in something over a consequence that happened in the workplace, is that accountability too? Yeah, taking ownership is a first step because you have identified me as the person who had that particular problem or caused that particular problem. And so going to the calling for a meeting and say this is what happened and I take ownership of whatever happened, it shows a lot to the employees. If you don't go out there and say I'm not responsible and try to find one or two employees to blame, it shows a sign of leadership by you owning up. So by owning up, it shows that you are honest and that's what we are saying initially. You are responsible for whatever has happened, first you are honest with yourself and again you are honest with the people that you are leading. So it makes the work space so easy because now you are honest with yourself, you are honest with the employees and they can be able to trust you and when it reaches a point when also one of the employees has a problem, they can be easy to own up without looking at what will the boss say will I be sucked because now you have created a room for people to be able to share and own up. So it gives the employees room to be able to own up and say this is the problem. If my boss can share, I can also share. So would you say that increases productivity in the workplace? It increases productivity because now the environment in which you work is not tensed. People are free. If you go out, for example, a journalist, if you go out there and you're supposed to take a shot and you don't have that shot, you say we went to the field, we arrived late and we didn't get that shot, but what can we do alternatively? So you look for a solution but you have been able to own up because the boss has created a safe space for people to share and for people to own up if there is a problem and immediately look for a solution without sticking to the problem. We move on very fast to get a solution. Okay, amazing. And still on accountability, there's this particular quote that I read by Manu Korazari. He said, without accountability there will be no growth. So speak of that a little bit. How it's associated with growth, accountability? Yeah, when you look at that's what I was saying initially even in the first place. It goes with growth because one, when you're accountable to someone in terms of even in the workplace, the person is pouring out more to you. The person is willing to share more to you because of that being able to be accountable to him, being honest also to, both of you are honest, both of you can be able to say this is what is happening and being able to share the truth to each other. So this growth comes in terms of you can be able to share a lot when you're in a company and the company has a vision board. What is the vision of this particular company? So the person is keeping you on check. You have a goal, how long do you want to meet this particular goal? How long do you want to be in the industry? What does it take to move from one department to another? So it's a point of keeping you on check, keeping you unaccountable, asking you the right questions. So if you are asking you, what are you doing on a daily basis to make sure that you are growing? So the person is being able to keep you on check. So the person is looking at, are you growing daily and the person is keeping you on trust? And you said there has to be honesty and this is someone that is not afraid of you. You know, someone who can be unstable towards any point in time. And you have also brought in that aspect that they keep you in check. Are you growing from this level to the other? So does it mean that it's someone who has to know your vision, or the plans that you have so that they, you know, keep you in check? Yeah, when we are talking about accountability, is we are looking at a person that you have a relationship with. So you have to have a relationship with that person. Because at that point, you are not going to be able to share. And when we were looking at in terms of the boss being vulnerable, he has created a room, a rapport for that relationship, for that conversation to start. So there has to be a relationship for that particular conversation to be able to. If you don't have a relationship, if I don't have a relationship with you, it will be on a, we'll be working on a colleague basis, but we'll not have more than that. We'll not have more discussion. So we'll be coming to work. We'll be just doing our work. But when we don't create that environment for that relationship, then I will not be able to open up or to be able to be honest. So we try to look at that in terms of being honest. So once you are honest, the person can be able to know what's the problem. When you don't share, when you're not honest, I cannot be able to help from my end. So the person from the other end can help because he knows this is what you are. This is because you have said, I've come and told you this is the problem and this and this. So I can be able to help from that point because you have been honest. And now I can be able to help you. So now that brings me to the question, how do you identify someone who can be your accountability partner? Yeah, someone who can be your accountability partner. Is someone, one, someone you know, your accountability partner, someone you look up to so you can be able to identify somebody who is ahead of you. Look at it in terms of your workplace, look at it in terms of your career. You want somebody to be accountable to you. There's this person you admire and you want him to or her to be accountable to you because that you should be accountable to them. Yeah, and you are looking at that in terms of there are things that the pitfalls that they went through that you not want to go through yourself. So you want to have someone who has gone ahead of you who can be able to hold you account and maybe share their stories on their journey. On, for example, journalism on what they have gone through. So you look for somebody who has gone ahead of you because also as an employee, there's something you're looking for, there's something that you will spot in somebody and say, this particular person has what I need. So that aspect that you look at? That's an aspect that you look. Maybe I want to do anchoring like somebody. So there's something that you look. So you will go and reach out to someone who you look up to. Maybe sometimes you may not be able to in a position to reach out to that person because somebody might be saying, what if I look for a accountability partner and that person is unreachable or maybe that person is a celeb and I cannot be able to. To get them. But you should be able to get someone who is close. Someone who knows you as much as you know them, they also need to know you. Your accountability partner, I see people saying my mentor is on the other side or accountability partner is someone on a movie, the other side, the person does not know you. But the way we say it is a person, you should be able to have a conversation with. Not somebody that is far, far from you. So a mentor can be an accountability partner. So there's an aspect of accountable in different aspect. That somebody will want you to be accountable for him or her in terms of sexual purity, in terms of family, in terms of goals, in terms of finances. So and again, you will find that you are allowed to be able to have different mentors on different things. Maybe you have a mentor on these family, finances, leadership. So you may have different mentors, but accountability partner is someone you should be able to have a relationship with. And it can also be your mate, just a colleague that wants to keep you accountable. Yeah, so when you're talking about accountability, there are three people you should be able to be accountable to. There are people who are ahead of you. Those that you look up to, those that can rebuke you, those that you cannot speak. He says a word you cannot speak after that word. Then you have those that are your peers, your colleagues. They are of your same age bracket or you work in that particular space. So there are people who are ahead of you, the old people, they are your peers. Then the people who are younger than you, they are young and they look up to you. Okay, so that can also be accountability. So they keep you accountable because you know, someone out there is looking out for Stephanie. You want to be Stephanie, you want to be on TV. So you know that whatever you do, it affects somebody outside there. So you are accountable on what you do knowing that there are young people outside there that are looking at you and you want to be like you. So whatever you do, you look it in terms of the people who are looking up to you. Okay, interesting. So now let us roll it back to now men and accountability. How does that look like? Compared to ladies, most ladies have relationships, they have conversations. But you'll find as men don't like being answerable to anyone. Because I know what I'm doing. Maybe I'm having a problem. It is my problem. I will fix it. I will deal with it. So men look at it in terms of this is my problem. I will fix it. I don't have to be answerable to anyone. But that is a dangerous, I will call it a dangerous way to go. Being not being able to accountable and sometimes even people misbehave in relationship because they don't have people who are accountable to them or people who talk to them. So can you be able to be accountable and let somebody ask you a question? So do you have men who are accountable to you when you misbehave? Does it have to be men being accountable to men or can a lady be accountable? A man be held accountable by a lady, let's say even in a relationship. So I want to keep you accountable in matters of your career. You can be able to have accountability. Now it goes back again to the relationship you have with that particular person. So somebody will say, So there is that aspect because not everybody will want, I will not want everybody to talk to me, ask me anything, just anybody. So it means you want, it's not just anybody that will want you questions. Because people will want to ask you questions and you are asking us who in my life. But depending on the relationship you can be able to keep account the other gender. But it also depends on the relationship you have with that person. So you say men should also be accountable to either? They should have someone they are accountable even in terms of even the relationship. For a lady if you are dating a man in a relationship and for example you are in a relationship or your wife has an issue and he knows that I have accountability partners. Can your girlfriend be able to go to the men that they know are my accountability partners and say Austin is out of order, can you talk to Austin? So you should be able to have accountability partners that even your wife or girlfriend can be able to approach. Because even when you are dating as a lady when a man does not have accountability partner or someone authority above him, it's a red flag. This person does not have someone he is accountable to or accountable to. So when the relationship goes to south, who do you go to? You don't know him, you don't know who is accountable to him, who can speak to him. So we should be able to have accountability to each other and also identify accountability partners that also our girlfriends or even our wife can be able to approach. So that they can call you to order and say Austin your wife is saying this I think you are not in line and we are calling you on the right line. So that as a lady as you date you must be able to have somebody who is accountable or has an authority that person answers to. This statement that you said, I am back to it again. Men are made men by what something in the company of other men. So I know it's almost self-explanatory but you want to add more to it. It goes back to men having a safe space where we can be able to talk and have conversations as men because when we are men we can be able to talk to each other, to share, even to be able to share our emotions. Now that when you find that when there is a lady amongst us we cannot be able to have that safe open up and have that particular space. So you must have a band of brothers that you are working with that are keeping you on check that you do life with in different aspects. So you must have a band of brothers that you work with and that make sure that they guide you through also the process of masculinity. What kind of band of brothers do you need because a band of brothers will just take you? It's not how you know the band of brothers that you choose. It goes back to what we are saying that people that are honest to you, people that you can lay your soul, your heart, your heart to. People who you can tell, by the way I'm going through this and they will not judge you. I'm going through even struggling with pornography, something like that. And they will still stick to you knowing that you are struggling. Knowing your struggles they still stick to you. So those band of brothers are brothers that are honest with you and brothers that you can be able to share everything with. So you should also have those particular friends that are really honest with you and you know that this friendship is worth it. Not friends that are not building you in any way but are just share after share. Why is it that men aren't allowed to cry? The African man isn't allowed to cry? Men are allowed to cry but they are in a position to choose the audience. Today I cried on this set. You will not like it. Because now we are on TV. Even the people who will comment will be able to. It's not a safe space for you to cry. So when I say men are allowed to cry, it's based on the audience you choose to cry. Because the next time my employer wants to give me a job, you will say, We are not allowed to cry. People will look at it as weak. So you have to have a safe space for you to be vulnerable and cry. And even through the program that we do and have that space for men, men there are able to cry because it's a safe space. So you choose your audience. You don't just cry. You don't just cry anyhow. So you choose the audience that you can be able to be vulnerable. You don't just go out there and start crying. And even if you look at it, when you go outside here and you are found crying, somebody will ask you what's wrong. But when another person comes and passes by and finds me crying, they will say, You are the one who is crying. Yes, you are the one who is crying. So how will be handled? Both of us are so different. The person will ask you what's wrong. For my side, I will be expected to be hard, wake up. Why are you crying? But do you think we need to change that? Yes, we need to change how we... Because the society has a high standard of what a man should be. And sometimes you will find that even in society, we have a lot of pressure in terms of there's a lot of expected of us. So it keeps us... So that things that we want to do, but because of what society has put on us, we cannot be able to do... So the society has us on the high that... You expect it to be too strong even? Too strong. And even we should be able to check and reevaluate on the things that the society put on us and even what the media puts on the telly on what masculinity should be. So it is the message that is being passed there and once people know that now this is it, people try to follow that. So that's why we should be able to redefine what masculinity is. Not to what you know masculinity, we should be able to redefine and that's why I was saying a man should be able to take initiative. Yes, and I wanted to get back to that. Taking initiative in relationship, in your family, for example, if you are in a relationship, a man should be able to lead that relationship. It's the code drive of that relationship. It's the one who has pursued you. So it's the one leading the conversations of this particular relationship. When this crisis initiates conversations, it initiates those difficult conversations. So I perceive you a lot. You should be able to continue of a leadership in that particular relationship. So you take that initiative, once you have taken that initiative, lead that relationship. Also in terms of faith, making sure that the entire family is grounded in matters of faith. And also that as a man you are not passive. You take initiative. You should be able to be active, you should be able to be aggressive. So that's what we say taking initiative is. And then number two was? Living responsibly. As a man you should be able to live responsibly be honest with yourself how you carry out yourself out there. Then we talk about leading sacrificially. You should be able to offer service. Sacrifice of services to community. Sacrifice in that particular relationship by serving. And also we look at faithfulness. You should be able to love faithfully. Make sure you have... I've seen this debate of you having more than one wife. So you should be able to have one person that you are committed to and you are totally faithful. And lastly leave a word for legacy. What will you want to be remembered for as a man? What legacy do you want people to read at your funeral? What legacy do you want to be remembered for? Those are the five things. We talk about what the definition of a man is. I feel we should replace this with tall, dark and handsome. At this point speaking to the ladies. With all that you need to have someone that you are accountable to so that they make sure you are taking initiative they bring you back online to ensure that you are loving faithfully. You are in service and all that you've mentioned. So you should also have accountability is key. There's no way even in both gender, in workplace, in family there's no way you can run away from accountability. It's one dangerous thing that you want to do life alone. You think you are the one who knows and you don't want somebody to question or probe you more on what you are doing as a person. So you can't do life alone. You should be able to have accountability partner in every aspect of your life. Family, workplace, everywhere in the relationship also have those accountability partners. So in every aspect you can't run away from having accountability. These people are looking out for you. They mean good for you. They mean growth. And that's why I was saying it is more of growth taking you to the next level than looking accountability like answering to a person. Don't look at answering to a person. Look at it in terms of this is an opportunity to grow or to go to another level. You are learning from those that are ahead of you. You are learning from your peers who are keeping you accountable and those that are behind you are looking up to you for accountability. Wow, amazing. I was about to close it but I've just seen a question that has come in from a viewer. Is it realistic to have a person of the opposite sex be accountable to you without mixed feelings involved? So let's say me and then I have a male person that I'm holding me accountable. Will that work out well? It will not work out well. I'm looking at it in terms of having the same opposite gender and we are sharing some deep stuff and are you in a position because now when we start being vulnerable and you are from the opposite gender I don't know how you will run away from there is that touch there is that connection that you build there is that connection that you build because this person you are sharing with you are sharing a lot just not any people to share that are very shallow but when you have somebody that you are accountable you are sharing some deep stuff there is something that you are struggling with and at the end of the day you will be able to be connected in some way because of the sharing and it will keep on having that so this person will always keep coming back back to you so if you have somebody you want to talk to me you can always refer somebody to the other gender of the same sex with them of the same sex for example if somebody is married for example let's assume I'm married and a lady comes to me to share something that's something he can share with so I will refer her to my wife having me being able to to handle her at that particular level so you can be able to refer to avoid that particular scenario where you guys are going to be emotionally entangled so there is going to be an entanglement when you share some deep stuff with the opposite sex but what if it's an elderly person someone that's like a mentor because a mentor might be someone who is 20 years is of a different sex so there is something that I said previously men are made men in the company of other men so there are some things you may not understand in your own context as a lady that you can be able to help so you will find that things that you cannot be able to to handle so a lady cannot be able to let's say that you help a man so do you know how to become a man so for you to be able to have that particular conversation a lady should not be in a position to be having that particular conversation unless you know as a lady how it means to be a man even with unless you look at that person and as a as a mentor somebody but again the person in his own wisdom should be able to refer you to someone you can be able to connect with you can share with him to a certain extent especially on career on career you can be able to share but now when we say we go to personal personal stuff you can be able to share to some extent but when I feel that this particular point I should be able to put a boundary I should be able to know this one now we are going overboard and when you come more closer it will lead to something else so you can have that conversation to a certain extent but not to a certain extent again putting that particular boundary so that you don't go to another overboard so use wisdom is the principle thing thank you very much Austin it's been a pleasure having this conversation with you what can people get you on your social media platform and what program are you running that is your camera on social media you can find me at Austin Agwanda in all social media the program we do is called Man Enough you can also look at in all social media platforms it's a space space for men so go to those particular social medias and you can be able to have those particular conversation and make sure that we are defining masculinity and the boy child you have said it thank you very much Austin that has been Austin Agwanda who is a masculinity advocate also a media personality and they are championing for at least nantoxic masculinity that is what have you said it's called the program Man Enough so you are Man Enough you can join that particular program today we have been talking about in matters career and even in personal life delving also into men and accountability I hope that has helped you one way or the other thank you for staying with us more is to come Y254 channel is a platform where you can talk to us using the hashtag why in the morning my name is Stephanie Ayata we take a short break and then we will be right back