 We are live. Good morning. How are you today? Have you had a good time at the RIC? been good so This is going to be session th 19 of the 20 23 Regulatory information conference and as you know, it's entitled the future is now Case studies on nuclear's role in meeting energy and electricity demands and we actually started this about this is our third year Candace Domesia's who's helped out has been it was kind of her idea to go with this and we've been we've tried to build on it Each year, so I hope you enjoy this one this year My name is David Wright, and I'm one of the five commissioners here at the NRC And before we get started with the panel this morning, I've got to give you some ground rules And explain how we all can make this a great interactive panel session So first the Wi-Fi code if you don't know it is Rick 2023 all together, okay? Next if you have your phones to be sure that they're silenced if you don't mind The Q&A portion of the session is going to be through Electronic means as you know if you've been to any of the other sessions For and that's for both the virtual and the in-person attendees So for those of you who are in the room You may have already Scan the QR code from the displays in the foyer, but if not, please take a moment and scan the QR code on the screen You'll you'll be then redirected to a specific session page For Q&A if it's your first time today, and you're accessing the Q&A you're you're gonna need to log into the platform And it'll direct you on how to do that And you were it'll be using your email that you provided when you registered for those of you who are joining virtually Once you've logged in to the virtual conference platform and joined the session There's a tab for the electronic Q&A so questions for both people here in the room and people online they're going to be merged together, so what you're going to be seeing is a real-time number from from everybody and With that let's see if there's anything else here for those of you in the room For we're gonna have four live polling questions during the the session today The slideshow in the poll will include instructions for you To text your responses in person participants You'll be using the code next to your choice, and you're gonna text that to 22333 For those of you Virtually once you've logged into the virtual conference platform and joined the session. There's a tab for polls Responses from both the in-person and virtuals are again going to be added together And there's a tab for that questions for We're looking forward to the questions by the way, we're looking for that so at the end of the session If you've got follow-up questions the panelists will be available But we'd like you to take it to the back of the room so that they can do what they need to do in this room to move forward with the wreck and Finally your feedback is very important to us that it helps us kind of Figure out what we need to do to improve the Rick for next year So your insights are going to help us do that and you can provide the feedback through the platform by selecting the feedback tab In the session or by accessing the link from the Rick website so now that I've got the Podium notes out of the way. Let's get back to the main event Today's panel the future is now case studies on nuclear's role in meeting energy and electricity demands So to kick things off My panel members and I would like to know a little bit about you Our audience so we have a live polling question that we're going to start with and I'm going to ask our producer to put it up If he hasn't there where we are And it's open for live polling So for in-person participants, you're going to be able to text your responses and the information is going to appear And I think it's going to be live. So if it's as it open and ready to go and you should start Seeing some of the the responses and get an idea. So please take a moment and vote and Leave the question up if you don't mind and let it populate till last you'd take it down So who we got here? So in the meantime while this is populating I'm going to thank a few people I want to take a moment and thank Stacy Joseph over here And I want to thank Candice de Messiere's as well for the time and effort that they have spent Putting this making this thing a reality that I think it's going to be a really really good session And then I've got two other team members really that are here Shakur Walker and CJ Fong my chief staff who have helped us as well get me ready So it looks like we've got a lot of nuclear regulators in the room There's some operator licensees Yeah, and then and then a bunch of others. Okay. All right. Well that that's interesting. So You know based on these results, you know, we got a we have a little range, but it's There's a lot more of you in one area than that. I thought it would be that's good So you can take the slide down now mr. Producer So today's panel will focus on the role of nuclear in a carbon-free energy future both in the US and Internationally, so the future is happening now It's really happening now and the panelists are going to show us a number of current examples demonstrating the role of nuclear for increasing resilience and on a low-carbon electricity grid and and to fill Just the diversity of industrial energy demands that they're out there some we know about right now and some we're probably going to discover as things become More readily available and we understand them so this session features nuclear industry international and end-to-user perspectives on recent decisions and initiatives such as nuclear plant restarts the use of Nuclear for industrial power and process heat the use of nuclear power to advance hydrogen production And international nuclear development. We have an awesome group of presenters on the panel today And they've been preparing hard and I believe you're going to learn a great deal from each of them as we address this topic And to maximize our time for the topic today I'm going to give you I'm just going to give you brief introduction who they are but I would encourage you to go To the agenda to the speakers pages of the rick program to view their full bios It's an impressive group of experts. I will tell you that kicking off for us today is going to be marines a wallach She's vice president of Pacific gas and electrics Diablo Canyon power plant Marine's going to be discussing California's history with nuclear energy California's current energy needs and the potential for continued operations at the Diablo Canyon power plant Next we're going to have Elliot Frick and he's vice president of commercial projects for constellation energy And he's going to give us a presentation on constellations growth initiatives and they're behind the meter project Following Elliot will be Diane Cameron Just DN DN right DN I apologize head of the division for nuclear technology development and economics at the nuclear energy agency and she will be giving a presentation on the NEA small modular reactor dashboard and how Nuclear plays a role in net zero around the world and there's actually a book out in the lobby I believe that You can pick up She's going to be followed by dr. Andre Argentine chief sustainability officer and vice president of Environment Health and Safety at Dow Chemical Dr. Argentine will provide his perspectives as a potential end-user for nuclear technology and speak to small modular reactors in the chemical sector as a Path to decarbonization After after they present after all my panelists make their presentations We're going to have some time for some questions and some answers And for those of you in the room again, please scan the QR code So that you can participate For those of you who are again and virtually do the same and you can do that You can actually submit your questions and stuff while the people are presenting. So take advantage of that And with that I'm going to turn the floor over to marine It's yours first technology issue All right, good morning everyone. Thank you very much commissioner for the opening remarks And for inviting me here today to talk about Diablo's journey Before I get started I just I wanted to talk about a couple reflections. I was having I was getting ready for today and Dissect a little bit why we have the word potential up here in the title as well as we as we go through this morning So a year ago today Diablo we were ramping up our decommissioning team. We were we were getting ready for you know shutting down a little over a couple years We you know, we were just preparing for that smooth transition to go from you know Excellent operations into decommissioning and not doing any safe store. My title was vice president decommissioning the department energy was was Preparing and developing their civil nuclear credit program that they were going to launch in April And we started to get some calls from Sacramento and they were interesting and the calls were What would be a point of no return? And so we're like oh interesting so there was a lot going on there was the Russian invasion in Ukraine there were You know, we're thinking about fuel supply and so forth and then here we are now, you know March 16th 2023 and We recently got some more calls from Sacramento But this time it was you know what the governor wants to come to California's largest carbon-free energy producer And we responded with great when in a few hours, okay? Okay So that's kind of just sums up the a year of pivoting for the Diablo Canyon team and Pacific gas and electric an outstanding year And I'm advocating for my title change to vice president of team pivot Go to go to the next slide Just so just some high-level topics want to go over and you know, it's a it's a changing dynamic story in the last year It's been fast-moving Appreciate appreciative of all the incredible support from the industry On it, but I just want to go over a little bit of Diablo Canyon Talk a little bit about California's in PG knees history of nuclear You know the changing energy policies that commissioner right talked about in california Why we're on a concurrent path, you know, why we use the word proposed Continued operations and then some upcoming milestones is to share with you so you know what's going on Go to the next slide So just real quickly we commenced operations in 1985 and 86 for unit one and unit two We our current licenses expire in november 2024 and august of 2025 So that gives you an idea of the of the window we're on right now We're about nine to ten percent of california's energy and about 20 percent as I mentioned of california's carbon-free energy As I mentioned the largest carbon-free energy producer in the state Next slide, please And we're going to advance here in a second And I just I really love this clip and I want to include this about california's history and nuclear Really a pine year and early nuclear and we partnered with general electric Early in the days with and obtain atomic energies Commission power reactor license number one So here's a a great clip that I hope that works that if you can play right now on that that milestone Mark rises at pleasant it is the nation's first privately financed and operated atomic power plant Leading figures in the atomic world are present for the inauguration ceremonies prominent among them Is admiral lewis l straws chairman of the atomic energy commission? After a welcoming speech by governor goodwin night The ceremonies are climaxed when admiral straws drills holes for the plaque bearing the plant's license number Then a tour of the 5 000 kilowatt plant begins with entry of the airlock Heavenly shielded atomic pile is reflected on the scores of dials as power from a pioneer source Begins to flood through the countryside Kind of just love the voice Not mine. So next slide. So just thought that would just So overall going from the north estate all the way down a humble bait power plant That's a PG knee facility. We terminated part 50 license in 2021. I think that was the 11th in in the nation We ran that station for 14 years from 1963 to 76 about a 76 megawatt facility And then rancho seiko over there ran for 15 years It was closed by a voter initiative And then valesitos we just talked about and then there's diablo canyons They'll keep in the lights on in california and then santa nofrae who's in active decommissioning Right now So let's go to the next slide I just wanted to share Our PG knees, you know purpose virtues in our stands and this year of pivoting and responding To the to the state's requests and and the california Communities, you know demands on electricity And you know our purpose is about delivering for our hometown And I can't think of a a year like we've been doing with with doing that and helping to turn diablo around To serve our planet as well And then really it as I mentioned I use the word pivot But it was definitely a year of being tenacious getting through a lot of processes being nimble, which is another word for pivot And one of our stands is you know a healthy environment and carbon neutral energy systems shall be the reality for all of california So just wanted to highlight some of that from PG knees perspective and how we're you know supporting california Go to the next slide, please So taking a look at last year there was a number of things that started occurring So as I mentioned in april of doe issued their civil nuclear credit program and the first tranche It's going to be four of the six billion dollar program One of the criteria was for those plants that have announced they were going to be shutting down prior to 2026 So that was us in palisades And then we worked with the doe Or actually the governor's office and the industry on that criteria and then we later applied for that With that the governor in in may time frame I was going through a may revise budget and some trailer bills associated that and the first one was assembly bill 180 And that's what we answered when I said what would be the point of no return And we needed time for the front end and the back end of fuel We needed to get fuel for Our cycles that were going to be for you know shorter amount of times because we're shutting down And we needed to Work on the back end on on use fuel To have another campaign to offload some of our spent fuel pool if we were going to continue to operate So assembly bill 180 was earmarked for that for for those kind of funds that we could start going out And having those conversations and and looking at opportunities there And then later in the summer senate bill 846 Was signed by the governor on september 2nd and that was the big Senate bill that was around continued operations for diablo canyon for until five years For up to you know to 2030 And so the funding in that senate bill allows us to look at Some of the near-term issues that we need to address and some of the long-term funding needs as well And created that that mechanism But what's in there and what's on the slide here is called, you know off ramps or You know opportunities and that's why we have it called proposed continued operations There's about 70 Requirements in senate bill 846 that need to be met for us to continue to operate About 14 from uh from pgini's perspective and the rest form for all of the agencies um in different entities in california, so there's a lot of You know collective collaborative effort that needs to happen for diablo to continue to operate the senate bill did not say Diablo keep going We have to we have a team that's putting together The license renewal application to submit to the nrc. We just recently Received our timely exemption request from the nrc, which was great news What that allows us is that we can submit our application the end of this year And you're supposed to submit it prior to five years of shutting down But I just showed our timelines. We all know we're within that But what that allows is us is to work with the nrc on the approval of the license renewal application While we continue to operate so past november 2024 and august of 2025 Let's go to the next slide So I already talked about it some of the immediate actions that we're doing fuel purchasing We've we've heard some of that this week And talked about that that can be a two-year lead time. I've got to tell you it's it's amazing the Collaborative supportive Folks reaching out suppliers vendors industry other licensees Working with the nrc. It has been great on all these elements Fuel storage we're continuing to work on we're a two system plant With our spent nuclear fuel storage. So we're working on all those dynamics as well California regulatory process is complex It's dynamic. It's got a lot of factors in it There's new processes a lot of new processes in the senate bill That our our agencies in california are are working through and figuring out We're we're helping them and so forth But again, that's why we have some of these off ramps and we have to get get through those one of the Items in the state of california was the california energy commission To complete an analysis of the need for diablo canyon a lot of last year was of Believing the governor the governor's office and the legislators are wanted to put in there that an actual study would be done Do we need california through 2030? You know, you know instead of hitting the i-believe button if you will So that study was just approved and voted on and it resulted in and a little bit change in language from Diablo canyon is needed Not just until 2030 but at least till 2030 So that was very interesting because We're not seeing the the progress that is needed on bringing other You know or bringing offshore wind or other renewables online and energy storage and things like that Let's go to the next slide And so just you know being nimble and tenacious as i talked about Diablo canyon has a great track record of at being tenacious a high performing plant A high number of exemplary performance by our industry peers You know our as we'll hear from our peers here on the panel. I'm excited to hear more I think Everyone needs to be working on being innovated being nimble Collaborative on this collective effort of you know, the future is is bright being on this side of the room The future is now the future is bright But we've got to all work together on thinking about things differently Going about it differently So we can deliver for our hometowns across all of the us and dealing with You know, we're having a resilient carbon-free grid and dealing with the energy demands and electrification and you know another demands on the systems And then concurrent past just to give you a highlight of that We've been here before so we we We know we're asked by the state of california to pull back our license renewal application um and And and we did that But there are things in in in decommissioning that we're going to continue some of our regulatory Processes our coast development permit and some other permitting just in case we do hit an off ramp in a couple years And we have to go back into decommissioning And so we just you know, we have two teams, you know working on all this we're you know Wearing many different hats and and all working together on that some of our next steps We're working on is Working on some of the new processes in the state of california Hiring up staffing up and with that is also, you know having a A retention program to bring people out. It's we've talked about this this week about attracting Folks and hiring and where we see some challenges now. We're asking for that at the ala canyon But can you come out here for five years? So retention is very important on that And then finally just some up Near-term milestones and things we're working on the most important one is that license renewal application will get in by the end of this year And continuing to work with our state agencies On various obligations. They have in the senate bill 846 And then finally Just wanted what I wanted to highlight here one another big Opportunity for us with the state of california is although we got the 1.4 billion dollars earmarked in senate bill 846 They only allocated 600 million. So a big one coming up by this june Is to Have legislation approved and legislators approve the remaining 800 million and some other cleanup items in senate bill 846 So I look forward to questions and I will pass it over to elliott We have a thank you marine for your presentation and I just want to highlight a couple things real quick You know one you mentioned about being innovative being novel being risk-informed, you know That's something that to up to the nrc folk in the room That you have permission to be bold So um and to try new things and do things in in a more efficient effective way, you know to be to be Uh to get one effective use of the resources that we apply to things. So be bold. You have the permission to do that um, so thank you again for your You're one busy lady too I don't have to tell you that People around here and around the world are watching What's going on with uh diablo the state of california and the nrc as we you know All try to work with you to meet this moment in time. So Before we move on to our our next panelist, let's bring up the second live polling question What active projects are underway in your organization to expand the capability and sustainability of nuclear power? And um, mr. Producer, just leave the slide up here while the results are populating um The I think there's like a five second lag or so. So it should start populating here soon um We're getting any live results here. There we go. We're starting to come here You know license renewals it's huge alternative energies small mods Okay, um Well, these are interesting results. Um, so it looks like we've got a we do have a range of projects That you're all all involved in so thank you mr. Producer for that and you can you can take the question down and um Elliott i'm going to turn it over to you. I'm going to hear what's happening initiative wise with the constellation. All right Thanks commissioner. I appreciate it. So um, my name is elliot flick. I'm the vice president of commercial projects for constellation and It's a new role for my company and i'm really You know lucky to be in in this position. It's uh, it's an incredibly interesting time in the business i've seen Over the many years of my career boom and bus cycles in the nuclear industry throughout the us And this is what I would say is the biggest boom cycle that I've ever Seen and when I talk to peers around the industry. It's it's just amazing the opportunities that are in front of us right now Um constellation energy. Why don't we move forward one slide constellation energy? was formed about This time last year when excellent corporations separated into what is now excellent, which is the Transmission and distribution companies and then constellation Which owns all of the power generation assets all the power marketing and and the like for For our company. And so we focus and are Operating in deregulated markets in the us. We operate in 48 of the uh, us states We supply About 10 percent of all of the carbon free electricity in the united states And um, we supply energy to about three quarters Of the fortune 100 companies. Uh, we can move forward one slide and this just shows you Where most of our generating facilities are located the um, the nuclear plants are primarily located in the midwest And in the northeast and mid-atlantic states And if we move forward one more slide Our our nuclear power plants we consider them to be Clean energy centers and these clean energy centers not only produce carbon-free Electricity but there are a tremendous amount of additional attributes that i'll talk about that Are important attributes that we're now having the opportunity to take credit for And one of the things that we're focused on is how can we decarbonize hard to decarbonize sectors of the economy Through use of our clean energy that we produce And you can see on the right side here some of the graphics, but you know, we are Evaluating putting in behind-the-meter switch yards at each of our power stations And what that will provide us the opportunity to do is to provide dedicated clean carbon-free electricity for a variety of purposes for industries that Um, otherwise would have a difficult time Um Getting clean energy and so For instance in the top right there, you know, we are looking at producing hydrogen at our power plants clean hydrogen green hydrogen We're looking at you know, what can we do with that hydrogen? We can turn it into fuels You can make your own diesel fuel that's compatible in diesel engines And that would be clean green diesel fuel. It's made without carbon additives You can make methanol and ethanol and any any number of other type of fuels So we're evaluating those type of opportunities at uh for co-location at our nuclear stations In addition data centers, there are other companies that have already announced putting data centers At their facilities, there are customers who want the clean attributes that are available from nuclear power and behind the meter type of Switch yards and so data centers is something that we're also evaluating our fleet for opportunities where that might make sense for us We also have a pilot that i'll tell you about in a few minutes here on a different slide that's looking at Direct air capture. So what is direct air capture? Okay, that basically is Taking co2 out of the air, you know, so right now we drive our cars and other things like that And we put co2 into the air This is the opposite process where we take co2 out of the air and we can capture it. We can sequester it We could potentially Use it for making other fuels and and things along those lines There's all kinds of stuff that you can do with co2 other than just sequestration And so that's one of the things that we're we're doing evaluative studies on Right now So if we if we move forward another slide, please The one of the main things that is you know at the forefront of our thought process though is preserving The carbon-free energy that we currently produce and one of the first ways that we do that is through License renewals we've recently announced doing License extensions at our Dresden and our clinton power stations and those reviews are underway and we'll be submitting those to the nuclear regulatory commission And we are very appreciative of all the work that the The nrc staff has done on the on the geist update and You know staying on track for a may 2024 Final rule so that we can move forward with our power stations that have already submitted For license renewal that that basically was kind of put on hold and in limbo so We've evaluated the sequence for all of our license Renewals at our power stations and and that's at the at the forefront of our focus for you know Maintaining the carbon-free energy that we that we currently make The next part is what can we do in order to increase the carbon-free output? Of electricity at our power plants and that comes through evaluating different types of power upgrades And you can see a number of different types That are shown here, but some of the some of the main areas that We are currently focused on We've recently announced That we will be doing turbine efficiency upgrades at our byron and braidwood generating stations, which will Achieve about an additional 135 megawatts electric At those plants and so basically from if you take a holistic view of your your power station You know at some point you your equipment wears out and you need to do replacement of the equipment And so as long as we needed to already do replacement of our low pressure turbine um Why is it that we wouldn't go and put the additional investment in in order to achieve More efficient turbines and then that'll give us additional electricity And so that's basically what we're doing at at byron and braidwood. We're also Very interested in margin Uncertainty recapture through a new technology in the u.s. But it's been used extensively in europe, which is the data validation and reconciliation technology That's going through nrc licensing reviews now and through its I believe second round Of rai's and we expect that later this year that'll be approved It will help us to Reduce the cost of doing a measurement uncertainty upgrade using this alternate Technique and so we're very, you know optimistic about the opportunities for the u.s. Industry relative to to use of those type of Approaches to power upgrades So we'll go ahead and move on to the next slide And i've already mentioned the term Behind the meter and so what is that all about well Just in general at our nuclear power stations We have massive amounts of land in general very large tracts of land hundreds and hundreds of excess acres that aren't used Most of our nuclear power stations have Rail lines that run right to them most of them are on waterways that are navigable and there are all kinds of other Attributes about the power stations in some cases you could think about Utilizing heat from The discharge of the power plant for other purposes. So behind the meter is about Being able to utilize those type of attributes by either Collocating your own facilities or perhaps other type of customers at the power stations In order to allow them to take advantage of not only the clean carbon-free energy that's produced at the nuclear power stations But also those other attributes that are physically right there At the power station Some of the type of things that you know We run into as we look at putting customers behind the meter Include things like you know what what happens to the capacity injection rights that you may have for your energy into the into the grid For instance in in the pjm grid here in the mid-atlantic Do you have to give up those capacity injection rights? Where are you able to keep them and that You know could come down to you know Is the load that you're putting behind the meter Is it a matchable load? Is it or is it load that you know you can cycle or not based on what the grid needs are? There are also state rules around tariffs around Distribution charges, you know if you put a customer behind the meter do you or don't You end up still having to pay a distribution charge to The local utility And then you know one of the other things that we think about when we're looking at any evaluating our plants is What's the possibility that we could? Place additional renewable energy At our operating nuclear reactors and use that renewable energy to offset the house loads of the power plant So those are those are things that you could also tie in Behind the meter with behind the meter infrastructure Next slide, please so Talk a little bit about we have a A pilot project that we recently announced Having essentially gotten gotten this into service at our nine mile point nuclear station in upstate new york Through a doe grant we've We've built a one and a quarter megawatt Electrolizer which produces hydrogen from behind the meter electricity at the at the power station And that hydrogen is being used now to provide for the station's hydrogen water chemistry as well as generator cooling capabilities We're taking a look now. What else can we do with the excess capacity that we still have in that electrolyzer? That could involve things like potentially providing Hydrogen also to our sister power station. That's Just up the up the road with james a Fitzpatrick. We also think about this in terms of What's the possibility that we could expand and utilize the excess hydrogen? That's still available from the electrolyzer to do on-site storage and potentially put A fuel cell at the station which would allow us during peak power demand time to re-inject energy back into the grid So those are those are some studies that are that are currently ongoing and we'll make some decisions Over the next months about whether or not we would move forward on on those type of Those type of projects Also something that we've recently Announced is that our company will be investing up to 900 million dollars to build a Hydrogen production facility at one of our nuclear stations that will be capable of taking Anywhere from 250 up to 400 megawatts worth of power and producing clean hydrogen And so that's another exciting project and we'll make some more announcements about that. I'm sure in the in the near future And then this slide here I I already had alluded to direct air capture, but under a a grant from the DOE. We are studying the At at our Byron generating station, which happens to have hyperbolic cooling towers The possibility of doing clean air capture Utilizing the hyperbolic cooling tower essentially as an air contactor and so essentially As the solution that is mixed in with the water falls down through the cooling tower It captures co2 out of the air and then that can be extracted And taken and then we could use that to either say sequester it or if you can imagine a world where we had A hydrogen electrolyzer also at the station you could take the co2 combine it with your hydrogen You could turn that into a fuel So there's all kinds of different things that could be done with this and this is just an engineering study That's underway right now that we're you know really interested to see what it ends up telling us You know, we may want to do in the future in this regard So with that, uh, I'll close my my remarks and I'll look forward to questions. Thanks Thank you very much, uh Elliott that It's very interesting My uh, my team and I visited Calvert Cliffs recently and we heard a little bit about What you discussed here and how y'all are preparing for the future. So it's very exciting Just interesting times that we're in today So before we move on to Our third panelist, uh, let's bring up the third polling question And the question is what do you think is the greatest challenge to grid resiliency today? um And uh while it's getting ready to populate i'll come back Elliott just to let you know that uh and the audience here that I hope you are thinking of questions related to Uh the goals and incentives driving the behind the meter Strategy instead of you know staying with the traditional Model of sending all your power to the grid I think it's really really uh novel and interesting. So here we have some uh Our polling results here increase in renewable energy sources Wow, that's why that's those are good. Um, all right, so Uh So the first two panelists were great. We got two more to go And I I'd like to I'm kind of curious to hear what the panelists think about maybe the first couple of questions And maybe even this one here, uh as you go along. So feel free to chime in on that So next up Is dn cameron and from the nea and i'm excited to hear your perspective on the small modular Reactor landscape globally. So dian our dn. It's yours. Thank you so much It's a real pleasure to be here I have uh the great pleasure of working directly for dg magwood But even so I think I have the best job the best team in the best portfolio at the agency I i'm my team. I have a great team and we think about nuclear technology development and economics We think about the innovation pipeline And it's it's really exciting to be here to share some of some of our thoughts with you today this of conversation of course happens against a backdrop of increasing concern about climate change and the urgency of action that is needed um a renewed focus on energy sovereignty energy security security of supply And also the potential of innovation To meet a whole host of new applications Innovation to unlock economic development and to unlock new applications across the economy. So With that I'd like to share with you some some work that we've been doing in the area of small modular reactors Next slide, please Before I go any further though, let me just take a moment to introduce the nuclear energy agency And we are a member driven organization, but our members are national governments 34 national governments sit around our table And we support those governments with analysis studies data advice Events workshops learning opportunities that help them advance Their readiness in the area of smrs help them advance Their priorities with respect to nuclear energy 34 member countries though russia is presently suspended for obvious reasons Collectively our members represent about 80 81 85 at some at some moments percent of global installed nuclear capacity Turning to the next slide. So now now that you know a little bit about who we are Let me share with you a little bit about the NEA's smr strategy. It's an agency-wide strategy It goes well beyond just my team that thinks about nuclear technology development and economics It touches on the teams that deal with waste management that deal with rnd That deal with safety and and other other matters But this picture I like to share because it really illustrates how we think about the smr space We've structured our strategy around three pillars. The first pillar shown in purple here is about technology Research development demonstrations safety assessments. We recognize that there's a variety of reactor concepts under development Some of them are based on light water technologies. Some of them are gen four And also a range of reactor configurations And some of them are going to be land-based some plan to be marine-based Mobile multi module And all of these different configurations have implications for regulatory pathways amongst other considerations Turning over to the right hand side in green as our third pillar on applications and markets And that really speaks to sort of the theme of today's Panel, which is these case studies looking beyond power even so on grid but also off grid Providing heat for industrial applications at different temperatures District heat providing the energy necessary to produce potable clean water around the world To produce hydrogen. We just heard about that and synthetic fuels and also potentially For marine merchant shipping propulsion. That's a little bit more speculative But we do have member countries that are quite serious about it In the middle in blue we have Our second theme enabling conditions. These are the conditions that are necessary to bridge technology push To market pull next slide, please So turning to small modular reactor development around the world and just trying to get a sense of the status of work around the world This is a map of headquarters of 21 smr developers and you can see there's a lot of activity And it's all over the world. It's a global footprint Next slide, please Here this map Shows the status of siting around the world The color scale indicates progress in siting Dark blue indicates that exploratory discussions or non-binding agreements are in place between smr vendors and the site owners At the other end of the color spectrum the light greens Indicate sites where permitting and licensing has already progressed or in some cases construction or even operations have begun And as we can see very clearly from this slide From this map Sighting is most advanced in russia and china where some smr's are already deployed and operating We can also see the site in argentina the carom smr. That's under construction in north america You see a lot of darker blue dots north america and europe a lot of siting activity in the earlier stages Including feasibility studies and negotiations with site owners Next slide, please So I mentioned our strategy at the nea considers a range of water Reactor concepts including some of them that are water cooled gas cooled fast spectrum Micro and molten salt and this is just sort of a scatterplot that gives you a sense of the distribution It really is a range of different technologies that are being developed around the world Next slide And the reactor configurations The vast majority aim to be land based but not all some many of them are going to be Multi-module that has implications for regulatory pathways some of them are marine based here you see Two russian marine based reactors and one chinese marine based reactor And you see the event she plans to be mobile Next slide please Near-term smr's so this is a scatterplot and each dot on here we consider to be a near-term smr They are expected in a range of sizes and temperatures So across the horizontal you see the range of sizes From a couple of megawatts electric with the micro reactors up to and even over 300 megawatts electric or about 900 megawatts thermal And and in the vertical you see the distribution of temperatures from about 285 degrees Celsius For the reactors that are mostly based on light water technologies But moving up with the generation four reactors up to around 800 and even higher Degree Celsius we also show you here Some dotted lines That indicate the temperature requirements for various case studies various hard to abate heavy industries paper soda ash Chemicals industry ammonia and so on and one of the key takeaways from this graph is basically that There is a range of Of different technologies under development that could meet a lot of different case study a lot of different end user Markets and And that the global market could reasonably be expected to support a range of smr's across those multiple applications beyond electricity Which is a really good thing Next slide please This scatter plot shows you those same smr's power Size across the horizontal and on the vertical We show you the enrichment requirements for their fuels that they are planning to use you see several of them You know sort of clustered around five percent enrichment that are planning to use pre existing pre qualified Lightwater fuel supply chains You see then a range all the way up to and then a bunch clustered just shy of 20 percent enrichment Which is that threshold for hale you? And that's going to be a real important issue in terms of Qualifying new fuels and also securing a friendly supply of those fuels Next slide please So guided by the structure of the nea smr strategy that I showed you with those blue enabling conditions or those bridges that are going to connect technology push to market pull At the nea We've developed six new indicators for tracking progress because we we We realize that to track progress we have to look beyond just technology feasibility That technology readiness level is a very useful indicator But it only reveals part of the part of the picture When we combine it with our new indicators by nea the picture becomes much more clear For each indicator that's that's identified here. We define. Oh, I'm going to go to the next slide for this Yeah, here we go for each indicator licensing citing Supply chain engagement and fuel we define six shades of green and we plot this visually for each reactor Light green indicates no progress reported from verifiable public sources of information The darkest green corresponds to significant progress towards the first of a kind commercial deployment On the on the dashboards, which I'm going to show you in a moment. We plot this visually in general Progress starts with modest steps and progresses from non binding agreements and mo used to legally binding contracts and other meaningful indicators of progress towards first deployment We grant bonuses For those that are active in multiple jurisdictions and on multiple sites taking those steps towards a fleet approach It's important to note though I just want to take a moment to say that the dashboard does not indicate that any particular reactor is a winner It's not meant to be a value judgment on the design It's simply a way of tracking progress. It's a snapshot in time A reactor showing less progress today in area could catch up and overtake others in the future So we're really not trying to predict the future. We're just trying to capture an evidence-based depiction of status today Real quick on licensing The the indicator follows closely international licensing pathways starting with pre licensing activities with regulators To design approval followed by construction and operating licenses On financing We recognize that there are different pathways to finance a project Some smrs are relying on a larger number of small investments Some are relying on a small number of larger investments And it's impossible to define a universal indicator, but we believe in particular It's quite meaningful to capture when the first round of financing has occurred Which kind of is that transition from it was a paper idea And now we're it's starting to have investment and and it's starting to to be worked on We also think it's quite meaningful to capture when the first of a kind Is fully financed and so we've defined shades of green around those two major milestones On siting we consider progress based on verifiable public announcements by the site owners themselves Starting with non-binding announcements or feasibility studies and we'll use moving to down selection Followed by site licensing and ultimately construction at that site On supply chain we track progress again from verifiable public announcements by the suppliers and the partners themselves We track progress based on increasing levels of legal commitment by suppliers in the smr supply chain Ongoing construction for example at a licensed site would be a strong indicator of significant progress in the area of supply chain On fuel availability, this is a good one An important one we consider whether fuel is commercially available for the first of a kind deployment Light green indicates that lab scale research and demonstration is underway Darker greens indicate commercial availability Ultimately procurement and finally load fueling Fuel loading excuse me for the first of a kind reactor at that licensed site Lastly on engagement public trust Is impossible to measure directly But we know that it's an important enabling condition We've defined an indicator to capture the types of activities that we believe are generally helpful and are correlated To public trust to some extent. It's not a perfect indicator, but we think it's useful nevertheless We consider activities such as memorandums of understanding endorsements town hall meetings benefit sharing agreement other forms of engagement with entities like labor unions non-government organizations environmental organizations civil society community organizations students potential end users for example Next slide, please. So those are our indicators criteria based indicators now a little bit about our approach In applying the criteria to various SMRs We were guided by these principles the criteria should be objective and clearly defined They should be applied consistently across all SMRs The dashboard should be based exclusively on verifiable public sources And to the extent possible information should be from reliable third party references such as regulators and operators The SMR vendors all had the opportunity to validate Filling any gaps provide feedback correct any factual mistakes we made but any information we received from vendors We validated or verified by independently by third party references The dashboard is fully referenced and all the Citations are available to you this document. You can pick it up at the bottom the escalator The references themselves are not printed in here. They're available for download The reason we didn't print them is there's 100 pages of them 100 pages of references to support the analysis in here Turning to the next slide, please So there's 21 smrs in the first version the first edition of the smr the smr dashboard These their logos are shown here and now I want to show you a sneak peek of one of the smr dashboards And what it looks like in the document next slide So this is the dashboard for the htrpm smr in china It's a thermal spectrum high temperature gas cooled reactor 500 megawatts thermal Outlet temperature is 750 degrees celsius. It uses high assay low and rich uranium halo triso pebble bed fuel It's fully licensed Operating and connected to the electrical grid in shidao one Nuclear power plant in the shandong province of china First of the kind was fully financed and constructed We don't have any additional information at this time about additional construction for additional financing for additional units htrm is owned by consortium With china huan end china nuclear engineering corporation and ching shua university's institute of nuclear and new energy technology cnnc, that's the china national nuclear corporation provided EPC construction services htrm fuel Is licensed and commercially available for its operation in china? On engagement It's a lower lower level of green But we do note that the relationship with ching shua university creates opportunities for engagement with students So I encourage you to download the document. It's available online or pick up your copy at the bottom of the escalator So that you can see the other 20 smr's in there From all around the world next slide So just before wrapping up. I want to share some of the key learnings Things that we learned while doing the research and the engagement with vendors To create this dashboard First our motivation was to define six new indicators And or our motivation in defining six new indicators was to contribute to evidence-based situational awareness And it's clear from our analysis that there is a diversity of smr concepts configurations For various applications and markets around the world, which is both a really wonderful asset a tremendous thing But it's also going to pose a number of considerable challenges We note that russia and china are leading on deployment with multiple land and marine based smr's already in operation But we see real and rapid progress towards deployment in north america and europe Timelines for deployment and commercialization are near term Very near term and accelerating We saw evidence Of many different business models and financing strategies involving a mix of public and private financing We also saw evidence that sources of finances financing are unlocking and accelerating investments are accelerating Despite considerable momentum though in many areas fuel qualification and commercial availability of fuels It's going to be a critical path issue for some of these smr's And we saw we saw signs of risks that regulatory readiness and supply chain readiness may become may become limiting factors One last point our analysis suggests that most of the smr developers are focused on their first of a kind deployment um And many if not most appear to be approaching the construction and management Of those first of kinds with methods that closely resemble how gigawatt projects were done in the past To the extent that we think a paradigm shift will be needed to unlock the economies of multiples from fleet deployment of smr's We will not be able to do that if we approach smr construction as a series of one-off large projects And we haven't seen really the evidence that the paradigm shift has started So there's a lot of reason to be excited and a lot of signs of progress But there are still many challenges to be resolved Thank you turn to the next slide, please This is the qr for qr code for downloading the smr dashboard and hard copies are available at the bottom of the escalator. Thank you so much Thank you so much dn Yes, by the way the book is it's it's good and I think there's a second edition getting ready to get up right It's going to be about twice as big that's right understand. It's going to be 40 something maybe Yeah, the next edition will have another 30 some odd reactors in it by summer and by the end of the year We will have it done the assessment for all of the smr's There's 80 some odd around the world now you're going to see a lot of green in this first edition You'll see a lot of green for some of the reactors in the next edition And then I think we're going to see a lot of white a lot of white empty circles by the end of the year in that final 50 But that's useful information too right like there's 80 out there But some of them are still just paper concepts, right? And again, there are down by the escalator on the table to the left Thank you so much. I'm always interested in learning what nea is doing and on a personal note Thank you for not keeping cj fawn At nea in paris that he's doing a great job as my chief of staff now. So we're very grateful for that So now dr. Argentine from dal chemical He's going to be the final presenter before we get to our fourth live polling question and then into the q&a Dr. Shores, I appreciate the invitation commissioner. It's interesting enough I grew up as a chemist and as a chemist I I always cared about proctons and electrons because they drive Reactivity and I never thought I would be in front of hundreds of people that only care about neutrons And this is the third time in a year that I make this joke. So Now the point behind my joke is why I am not a deep expert in nuclear technology. I'm here today To share my passion Because at the risk of a mixing passion with science Because I believe that the technology is here and in front of us and it enables It enables mankind to do wonderful things because the world and mankind needs materials And my passion is grounded on The the data that supports the hypothesis that nuclear power is needed to lower carbon emissions And that's what I'm going to try to convey the methods today. I'll try to use the The field that I am knowledgeable about the chemical sector And I'm going to try to make the point not specifically to the subset of the chemical sector that we at dal operate But I'm going to try to showcase where Uh nuclear technology and smr specifically can impact the entire industrial sector So with that in the next slide I want to to pose a Start with what we are trying to achieve And this is a chart that many many of you saw I recreated the chart from data From ipcc ar6 and what it shows are all the shared social economic pathways That project The potential emissions on the globe And I think you all know the the numbers there the SSP one 1.9 is what matter is just the the radiative forcing the imbalance of energy Into into planet earth And so 1.9 watts per square meter That's the green and that's the blue line and that's those are the two that i'm going to cover because That is the world we want to to build a future That hopefully gets us close to SSP 1.9 which If aligned to pairs agreement to operate below one and 1.8 degrees with Very High probability of being underneath under one and a half degree Celsius. So i'm going to zoom in If you go to the next slide I deleted the scenarios. We don't want to planet earth and i'm only keeping ssp 1.9 and 2.6 Those are respectively one and a half degree and 1.8 degrees And what i'm showing on red Just to provide some reference to what does those mean to the industry The red band is just a mathematical Applying 1% year over year. That's why you see the curvature. I just want to point that for you to operate close to that One point ssp 1.9 The sector and by the way, this is for of course any sector, but the chemical sector needs to drive a 5% reduction year over year For for the next two to three decades And that is really hard what is not shown in that chart Is that the chemical sector and society is going to grow? So that is a just assuming that you are flattening your volumes and your production But as we all know society is going to grow there's going to be more people And more people are going to need more food and Infrastructure and again the material world around us. So it's not only driving a reduction over the baseline today I normalize everything to one on on 2020 But it's driving a Much higher reduction because of the growth that is expected for any industrial sector in the world that we want to build And so the point here is massive amount of investment needs to go and what I want to do in the next slide, please Is to explain this is broadly for the chemical sector What the buyers are showing where emissions exist in the chemical sector? And so I'm trying I'm oversimplifying here the entire sector into three Buckets here. So there are emissions from what we call direct emissions. Those are About 42 of the total sector emission. So direct emissions are emissions inherent to The conversion process that you use to go from feedstocks to to products 35% Electricity and 23% From heat now if you break down the chemical sector into the variables subgroups You're going to see drastic differences just to point to one example if we look at ammonia production methanol Nitric acid that is largely direct emissions if you go in a different sector, which is the chloro alkali sector of the the the chemical industry that is going to be all about electricity Where we operate now we operate largely in the olefins and aromatics, but also on the chloro alkali So then that's where the heat in in the olefin and aromatics dominates the emissions And so the question that I that we ask ourselves at now when The chemical sector as a whole is asking is what could smr smr do or nuclear power do and and how much can it impact Going to the next slide I did a simple assumption. Sorry, please go back There we go What if 100 of the electricity could be replaced? Because actually it could the technology exists So all the green bar on the left side here goes away I really If you need to to deep dive into the heat Again, I'm oversimplifying an oversimplification But you can divide the heating in this in the industry into really really high temperature heat that you're going to need in your crackers Especially in the olefin and aromatics side. So now you're talking about operating above it 100 900c And so I the high temperature heat I'm assuming that that cannot be directly replaced by smr But the low the low temp heat Heat that is going to produce high pressure steam that could in principle all be Supplied through smr and I am assuming a relatively modest 30 reduction from direct emissions And and we have to go process by process to how I came with that that that number But it's it's a it's a it's based on assumptions. It's a realistic number The point I'm trying to drive is technology exists today with nuclear power That you could Choose your point in the curve if we could magically I know we can't overnight Bring smr's into the industry. We could get to the 2030 Just just walk that that bar to the right on the left On the x axis we could we could deliver the 2030 goals today if we could overnight make that investment Of course, we can't but the technology exists The other way to look at it if we make these investments over the next one or two decades smr could make a significant impact towards helping the chemical sector deliver somewhere between the The two scenarios shown here And that is excluding all the other investments that the chemical sector is going to make to address the other issue This is purely looking from what smr's can do so That is light is is really my my my demonstration to That supports my belief on what the technology can do And and that's why I'm passionate about it. So in the next slide, I just want to provide some High level thoughts on what I think is needed. Of course on the first one We can probably put the first two bullet points cost return on capital and address timing mismatch on the regulatory framework This is how I like to think I like to think about the sector It's a wave and a wave has frequency and has an amplitude And the amplitude here is the capital that we have to deploy it and the frequency is the predictability That is needed for the sector to make an investment. I I always make this point that we need this clarity and Predictability on the regulatory time so that you can you can align the the the cycle of the chemical sector investment to Bringing smr's into the industry if you go off cycle There's a window of opportunity when a when a chemical player decides to make an investment in the site There is a window of opportunity typically because I'm retiring that asset or the market calls for new volume So I need to build a new asset the chemical sector survives by Properly allocating capital at the right time to bring a new technology into the marketplace and so that's why cost return on capital and addressing a potential time mismatch visibility of the the Regulatory framework is is fundamental without it. I think we will fail, but I'm confident that we will not The other element just more specifically for down now just to make the point is for us And and we've made a public announcement On a partnership with x energy. We are looking for multiple of 80 megawatts if you think about a 320 megawatts plant it would Be the perfect size to provide power To provide electricity to the site and to provide steam and we need flexibility on those A chemical plant doesn't operate At a perfectly steady state Uh situation there are times where you need more steam. There is a time that your steam Load is much higher and you need that flexibility and of course Specifically steam what smr's bring is the ability to bring their steam Physically very close to your site. So those things are points that excite us That's why we are committed to the technology We are really proud of the partnership and committed to bring this technology into reality by The end of the decade So with that I look for for the questions Wow, so thank you for your presentation andrey the um You know as a future user of these advanced technologies I think your perspective is just very important for people to hear really Because you're proof that the the future of nuclear is like right now is here. It's upon us. So And it's kind of interesting, right? Do you look here at the table you've got And for the nrc Uh people who regulate us here in the in the crowd. We've got a plant that's trying to Come back online Right and we've got to do our part to help there. We've got Current utilities that are using the technologies that are out there to try to Create hydrogen or other things like that and go behind the meter with it and to to provide other services Using the existing technology and we've got to figure out how that works In our space, right then you've got regulators and other organizations around the world that are tracking each of these technologies And each of these are going to you know in some phase are going to come to us And we've got to be prepared to to do what we need to do to allow them to get to market in a safe Way so that they can do the work that they need to do to supply People like now So that they can do what they're going to do to provide Services to consumers around the world. So it's it's really this panel is just it's amazing What we have here today So that was an interesting period of time a little bit over 45 minutes So thank you for your remarks and and and your willingness to be a part of this panel. I think it's been very good So it's going to lead us now to our fourth And final live polling question if you'd go ahead and put it up, please it's up And that is when do you think the first smr's and amr's will be commercially deployed in north america or europe So as we're populating this here I'd like you to Get up as soon as you can So before we get into q&a. Well, here we go within seven years within 10 years, so we've got What roughly three quarters of the audience that thinks it's going to be between seven and 10 years? Okay, that that tracks I think I'd be interested to hear From my panelists what what you think about that the answer to that question right there Is anybody want to comment on it? Anybody I just want to say I'm happy because that's our goal. So Very good, okay. Thank you, mr. Producer you may you may take that question down Um So we're going to begin with with the q&a now. We've got about 20 minutes 21 minutes or so And we're going to play a little tag team. I'm going to be tag teaming with the table over here cj I think it's going to be reading Some of the questions from online um I'm going to ask one first because um While andre was talking I made a note and I wanted to andre find out from you You mentioned your you got four units, right that you're looking to put online Down in the on the coast down the gulf, right? So our current plan is for one for one One plant that is probably going to be in the In the 300 megawatts range which might require multiple units on the multiple reactors on that on that So in is it dow's Long-term view for multiple smr's or you know, or is it a single project? Yeah, so The answer is The technology Can impact multiple sites. It's going to be a site by site choice But the idea is not to do this in the first site and be done The technology proving um Cost-competitively The idea is to expand it to all their sites to other sites in us first and around the globe second absolutely Do you plan to manage the plant yourself or I guess even if you're not operating the reactors Do you intend to have personnel on site? so We need the plant physically to the site for this team But our we have something that we call the best owner mindset Uh, it's not part of our strategy on having the best owner mindset to operate the plants We want to to be the the beneficiary of the plant And that's that's absolutely long-term solution. We understand that we are trying to catalyze the first one in our sector in the world and We are flexible and open on the first one on what actions we need to take Uh to make it happen But the long term is that we want to be a user of the power of the power and a user of this team So we will you have people on site? Sorry, you will have people on site At this point the idea is no the site there's going to be a smr in our site and we want to be The users of this team power not run the the plant itself. I understand. Thank you. See jay I'm gonna come to you see what we've got from the audience and online. We got some great questions I wish we could get to all of them, but we we took a good sample. I think so first one's for marine marine assuming a successful license renewal currently, uh, california is allowing diablo canyon to operate until 2030 as you as you showed in your slides Have you guys began any discussions for possible operations past that date? Is that something that's being contemplated at all? All right, thank thank you cj for the question Um, it was interesting to see the polling results. Um, you know up to 10 years Seven to 10 years or you know seven years from 20 from 2030 and so as I mentioned, um the california energy commission completed, uh, its joint reliability assessment and The wording is starting to shift a bit Um to instead of until 2030 till at least 2030 Projections we see on bringing on other Reliable carbon-free resources Are not showing you know within the next seven years So pgne hasn't been in the discussions or asked for that But all of the studies and the analysis are looking at it probably is longer than 2030 We will be submitting a 20-year license renewal application With the nrc because that's the process and then that'll allow the state To throttle and lever and make decisions as if it's 2030 if it's 2032 if it's 2035 We'll make sure we have our federal process all in place To make sure that we can meet the needs of the state Which is making the grid not only more reliable And providing that essential service for folks But also to move towards the goals of making it a carbon-free grid and a reliable resilient grid So I'm gonna stay with you a second. I'm gonna come with a follow-up Um, so I mean there've been some articles. I've read out there about Desalination right is so is is that part of maybe the plan with diabolo? And is that tied to the license renewal or any way? Well, it's not tied to license renewal But we do have a desalination plan at diabolo canyon and we've had that since we began operation It basically provides almost all the water needs that are are needed at diabolo canyon And diabolo canyon if anyone's been there and by the way, everyone's welcome just reach out And follow us on social media too. We had a qr code there But um, you know, it we are a very contained Facility out there. We have our own security or you know police force if you will our own fire Our own medical all that and we have our own water supply. So that's what the desalination does It is has more capacity than what we use we currently use it about 40 percent So, um, I mean we've seen you showed yet the legislation and everything that was that that was out there and The d.o.f.e funding and I guess that's still out there. Good. You've got I take to say is it a done deal for everything, right? But what's the biggest hurdle that you see? left Going forward for diabolo So definitely not a done deal, but we're working through all those processes We're starting our discussions with d.o.e. Um getting a getting a contract with you will it's called a Credit credit agreement a credit award redemption agreement That's the the term for it and we're the first ones So that's just an example of this is a very unique situation. This isn't diabolo canyon Like a a typical plan just saying oh, we'd like to get our license renewed We were asked by the state of california legislators the governor's office To turn the decision around and continue to operate diabolo canyon. So the biggest hurt. There's hurdles the biggest hurdle is the Helping influence helping supporting others vendors contractors state agencies d.o.e. nrc to your words be bold be innovated have breakthrough thinking what needs to be true We can't even our hiring we brought in about you know over a hundred people already We couldn't do our typical hiring and recruiting and training We we put together a tiger team to bring on those folks and in in rapid speed and and get them proficient because we know It takes a couple years to do that So the hurdle is changing that mindset You know, you know changing how typical vendors contractors suppliers have done business how we do business How we work through regulatory processes and proceedings Yeah, so I mean so the exchange of information is very important You need to know what you need to do right and because what you don't know you don't know So the things that we can do From our end at the nrc as well as of whoever else you're working with the state If they they lean in and you know that will help you provide what you need to provide in order to get this thing Back online. Okay. Thank you so much cj. I'm coming back to you what you got Okay, thank you sir next questions for elliot Elliott in your opinion, which of the following is the future to meet electricity demand needs Flexible operation of nuclear power plants. I think that means, you know dialing up the power Or down as needed kind of load following Or stable operation and then using excess energy for some of the behind the meter technologies you described Hey great question I think you need both And I think that it's important to try to the extent Possible base load Your nuclear plants at least the existing fleet. That's that's basically how we You know design them to be part of the base load system. I can just give an example in In illinois what we're finding is that there's so much renewable energy that's coming into the market Be it wind that's coming down from the dakotas through the chicago land area or otherwise It causes us to have to Load follow at times with the nuclear units and turn down clean energy That could otherwise be on the market so as we look at a world where we put Customers behind the meter it gives us this opportunity to continue to base load the plant instead of having to turn it down and Make room for other renewables to come into the market Which are being further built out around the country so I think I think of the The use of behind the meter as to some extent and depending on what you put behind the meter not only helping to Decarbonize other sectors of the economy, but also it provides you the opportunity to essentially as A battery but in other in other means so, you know, perhaps you're manufacturing like ammonia or you're Manufacturing hydrogen and you might be liquefying it or whatever that's that's basically storing Your clean energy in another way that you can use In another form, but it's it's a form of battery storage that makes more room for you know renewables and other things like that to To come come to market Thanks So I'm gonna follow up with you so on the um I'm in a previous life I was an economic regulator in the state of South Carolina, right and that's a vertically integrated market whereas up here Pgm is more of an rto, right? A competitive market or whatever so it seems like that That what you're doing could possibly be disruptive to the transmission system in a way What kind of challenges are you either forecast or you experience on on that? Yeah, it's a it's a great question because you know, the u.s. Is kind of broken up into either the regulated market Or the deregulated market and primarily our company operates in the deregulated market And so when we decide that you know, we're going to build behind the meter infrastructure at our plants that that kind of runs Kind of contrary to what some of the business models are say for the transmission and distribution company that's that's in that area Where they feel that hey, this is our right to provide electricity You know, you don't have a right necessarily to to build out behind the meter infrastructure Whereas we we feel like we're on very solid ground being able to put behind the meter customers on our own site And you know as long as we're still consistent with what the what the tariff is We still when we go and we do a behind the meter Um infrastructure were required to get say if we're in the pjm region to get pjm approval of the design configuration and what we're doing along with the Working with the the local utility in order to put that Infrastructure together so it's it's not like we're cutting them out But it's a different enough way of thinking that it it certainly does I think feel disruptive at times to the local transmission and distribution provider And this is just one of those things where we have to be open and clear with them and Work with them as we move through the process of of doing that so that we don't end up You know running a foul of you know the tariffs or other things that right And I would you know come in from a vertical integrated market I could see challenges that would have to be addressed because it you know This is a the ratepayers pay for everything right and but I could see this as a positive because it would be If you're making that profit it would be credited to ratepayers in some way right so I think that's I mean it's a win-win Yeah, and I I agree and I think that you know this is a this is a way to help nuclear which has for many many years in the us Been undervalued for the attributes that we bring to the table to actually be compensated fairly for the attributes That we that we actually do provide with clean energy All right, good. Anybody else want to comment on that at all? Okay. CJ you got another question? Sure do So dianne good to see you again. I was going to try to ask you this question in french, but then I don't want to embarrass myself in front of all these people Okay, so Steel producers that are looking at long-term decarbonization Are looking for some very high temperatures up to 4 000 degrees c Which is well above even the hottest high temperature gas reactors so is nuclear power Or is nuclear out of the running for providing a source of decarbonization in this example Or is there some other solution that might involve nuclear? Well, I have the beginnings of an answer now, but If you ask me again in this time next year, we'll have a great deal more Evidence to support the answer We are launching a series of case studies On the potential for nuclear Different high-temperature nuclear reactor concepts To meet the the needs of of various industrial heat users steel is Going to be one of the more difficult Sectors to to decarbonize Because of the extremely high temperatures they need now on the scatter plot that I showed It showed near-term smr concepts Reaching up to and just shy of 850 degrees celsius. There are Additional Advanced reactor concepts still in rnd that aim to get up over 1 000 degrees celsius Which will have a great utility in steel Steel manufacturing those are not going to be ready for near-term deployment though. So this is This is one of the hardest to abate sectors So but but we are but we are Trying to learn more about this So there is a collaboration between the nuclear energy agency and the generation for international forum on this question And we will we hope to publish something on this next year Dianne, I'm going to stay with you a second with the follow-up here. So Your dashboard, what kind of feedback are you getting from smr vendors? Um The majority are very excited Um, I think it's fair to say many of them were nervous When we first started talking to them about developing this dashboard We started talking to the vendors last summer. We told them we we spent about four months workshopping the criteria Just to make sure that we were defining criteria that were You know, they're not perfect, but they are meant to capture to reflect Meaningful progress, but globally and the pathway to deployment looks different in every in every jurisdiction The licensing steps might be different Financing models might be different Um steps steps deciding might be different. So we had to sort of workshop those criteria to get um to get Indicators that were proxy indicators of real and meaningful progress equally in all of these different contexts And I think the smr vendors when they first Knew that we were working on this. They were nervous They were nervous And I I think they were nervous because they thought we might get it wrong or it might accidentally prejudice One business model over another or one licensing pathway over another and not be able to meaningfully Capture real progress in these different contexts But I think that the the reaction this week we launched it on monday has been just tremendously positive Because I think there's an acknowledgement now that we did a pretty good job In being able to reflect real progress in different contexts. It's not it's not perfect, but um But and I would say that I think now when the vendors see the product in their hands They realize what the real message is coming out of it are It's not really about comparing one reactor versus the other and no one's going to make A decision like no investor is going to decide their their their favorite smr based on this product But what this product does is it gives policy makers a tool for demonstrating a few important things It it is real it is happening I mean russia and china have them already deployed and operating which If you look for a silver lining in that statement the silver lining is These technologies are not science fiction. They're not distant future. They're totally doable. They did them They can be done here, too And the technologies are feasible what we need are the enabling conditions So this gives policy makers what they need to go to the elected governments and say these are where our designers are getting stuck We need a supply of h. A. L. E. U. We need smooth predictable regulatory pathways And we know people are working on that but this just emphasizes that point So it uh, so I think that the reaction has been really positive because I think it's going to be a really useful tool for For a whole lot of different eyes. I think I think it could end up being a very valuable resource Yeah, so the the good doctor next to you from dow He um discussed the partnership between dow and xenergy and how they're you know, how they're bringing smr's to the chemical industry in the united states And and i'm going to go outside the smr spectrum here Let's include, you know traditional light water reactors as well as well as Advanced reactors. Do you know of any non traditional uses for nuclear reactors that are planned? um Or underway in europe or international somewhere else Yeah, absolutely. So dow is leading the charge But the rest of the chemical sector is following dow's uh approach very closely and And we know that synthos is a chemicals company based in poland They are very interested in what dow's doing and I think they essentially want to be What's the terminology the epri put out the advanced reactor? Roadmap they call it uh fast followers So we're seeing evidence of uh, you know a number of companies getting ready to be fast followers Both in the chemical sector. So I mentioned synthos, but also mining all over the world is looking at what the mining Companies in canada are doing. Um, yeah, so absolutely the markets are going to be global Okay hydrogen enormous enormous interest in france in using nuclear for hydrogen production So a lot of these behind the meter Ideas, yeah, there's there's a lot of uptake, but I I think North america is leading In terms of first employers, but there will be a lot of fast followers Okay, thank you so much Do we have time for any more questions? Do we think we're done? Okay, we're getting close to the end of our time So, uh You know, it's been a great panel. I hope that you have learned something You know this case studies that were presented. I just think it's great. So Watch this again. It's going to be uploaded So, um, I want to thank each of my panelists today marinesa wallach vice president of diablo canada canyon power plant at pgne elliott frick vice president of commercial projects at constellation Deanne cameron head of divisions for nuclear technology development and economics at the nea And finally dr. Andre argentin chief sustainability officer and vice president of environmental health and safety at dow chemical And thank all of you in the audience today both here in the room and virtually for your questions for your kind attention and participation today You've added value to the session and I hope you enjoyed it. So as a reminder two things real quick Panelists will be available to talk to you if you want to but I'd ask you if we could move it to the back of the room So that if they've any setups has got to happen here, they can get moving on that And finally again your feedback for not just this panel session, but for the entire rick Is important to us. So let us know what your what your thoughts about the rickward this year Your insights are going to help us shape next year's program You can provide that feedback through the platform by selecting feedback the tab In the session or by accessing the link in the from the rick website again Thank you very much and have a great rest of the day