 Thank you. Is that working? Okay. So thank you. Welcome. I am Wana and before I'm presenting Myself how smart and beautiful I am and how much I achieved I want to tell you a fact You will all agree. It's 4 30 in the afternoon Everyone Would argue that? Another fact at 4 30 afternoon Energy might be a little so and so so the first thing the first Activity that I wanted to Propose you is to ensure that you have a neighbor X to you so you're exactly that you're not alone and And it it will be nice if you are in a pair. So at the your table Yeah, your pair. Yeah, so two four six Okay now this topic is called Change for the perspective on change. So it's about change. So the first thing I want you to experience is Something about change Simple experience and I invite you to change. This is an exercise. I really love a change something on yourself This is and I'll give the example because we need to give you the example. Don't we this is something that I wanted to do So change something on yourself. Yeah, I change Okay, did you Did you succeed Okay, are you happy with your change? No Well now what I invite you and that was a thing to have a pair being in pair turn to one of your neighbors and Change something on her or on him, which means can we have an an example? Who is some some of the the people that help me Of some of the one of the volunteers. Can you come and help me? We'll do a demo Can I change I need to change something on you? Yes, please Yeah, I changed something on him and you can do the same on me Okay, I don't know you change something on me Look at me. You need to change me No, you change me So That's what the demo so you turn to your your neighbor and you change something on him or her Okay, so you do it so you could change that or whatever you wanted Please do please do please proceed it don't ask them go and change don't ask for permission and Also, don't ask the person to change herself. You go and change I see he oh So for example for example sit up let's say you want to Take that Okay, so that was I mean I'm not changing it He'd he needs to die. How how does this second part of the exercise felt? Okay It felt okay That didn't fail you're okay so and so No answer Did it feel awkward Yeah so this is my super short exercise about change and they if it is this This workshop is kind of the backlog of the takeaways if there's only one first takeaway is That you can't change someone else People change themselves and if you change someone that is an aggression Well, yeah, it feels awkward from the people that is changed, you know because When I tell change something on me I was like what will he change and for for him Oh my god, what will I change and it's also a cultural. That's why this is a little bit provoking It's also a cultural matter in this exercise was the level of my own intimacy space How that I enter in that space and that is true at the team Organization and corporate that so if there is one takeaway from my Workshop today is that you can support if you are change agent You can support people to change themselves, but you don't change If you can change that it's more than a aggression okay We go we We can start still with me. Oh no. I am pretty after that take first takeaway Presenting myself. I'm one of Runko. I'm coming from France. I love to the team dynamics and leadership and I am using systemic constellations and Design thinking for collaboration lots of things. So I I like to present myself as an agile Leadership and business DJ that mixes whatever practices make people proud of their outcomes So that this is for me now The second takeaway I'd like to you to have from here And I say if after that you don't like the session you can go but you have a second takeaway is that organizations are made of People and people What's What's the quality of all people that are in the organization is that you will you will agree with me or not? We can argue they are alive A fact So if they are alive, they are living Systems and because organization are made out of people organizations are also living system like the individuals and Because organization are living system and that is my second takeaway they change like living system That means they emerge they They are born they grow they decline and then die and The fact is what the us as Us people and also organization We have a bias About that truth Which is it that we live for we we believe that we'll live forever and we act as if we live forever And that's the same case with organization They act as they they live forever in the format that they they are in at a certain point so now After the second takeaway, which is organization of our living systems I would like you to Have this first activity Discuss with at your table in an agile journey adoption. What do you think is needs to change first? Two minutes on that. Yeah, you can write it there Could have done also a cloud, but I prefer that you have a conversation Just just have a conversation and then you'll tell me two minutes Okay, it was just that this is the warm-up Table if you can throw at me some words and conclusion what element Leadership Mindset Opinions Openness to become more open that's okay from those those tables what structure of Okay New did you find something open? Okay, so what was already said? willingness to achieve To change the willingness to change. Okay, so this this was a little bit of a generic question Theoretical philosophical now Maybe that's the The next question will have another answer in your professional environment right now in your organization Either the one that you work with in or we work with if you're an independent consultant What is need what is need to be changed to change first? Maybe it's the same answer. Maybe it's another one another minute Based of working now, let's yeah, let's discuss between with your pair For one minute Okay, okay once again, it was really a quick conversation Some answers for each table yes yourself, okay Thank you for that What else other table? Yeah Okay creates psychological safety on other table your boss Okay, what was the problem with your boss? Okay Other things Mindsets experience on going back to the the first question yeah business agility so the The business being more agile So you see here something else from this table that We you stick with leadership the actually I was thinking Which it's a good question once What it needs to be changed in leadership? Okay, so okay, so the leadership should Hold the why of the change that's okay. Okay, so This is our sum Answers so you see there's about mindset that Managers also lead leadership So you see you we come back to the the same basics and what you what I observed I was between the two questions actually that Not exactly the same answers because the first one is a more wishful and The second is more concrete you know concretely for for me what in my what I observe in my organization so Now okay, so all these things that you said you need to change What's the problem sorry resistance? fear resistance and Why is that? Stepping stepping out of the comfort zone is kind of linked of fear because out of the comfort zone is dangerous But what it's I want to say is there's a balance when we change there's unbalanced between the decay and the growth of a new system and the fear is also and Resistance is normal and that will come it's normal because a System doesn't want to decay as we don't want to get decay I'm I'm not very sure that every there's a human being that Can't wait to become very old Not sure you all get old, but I'm not sure that I know anyone that said oh I can't wait to be 80 So Me too. I mean I'm included in all this So that's that that's unbalanced between decay and growth. So Having said that What I wanted to share with you This is a model that I discovered and I find it so useful for the idea today is to experience it I presented I think it's a model of change that is based on the cycle of life thing that in it's called the two loops just simple as that two loops From the Burkana Institute Margaret wheelie and Deborah freeze Have defined it at the point in time There's a dominant system and that's also in the organization and there is an emergent system to look the one that is dominant and another one that Emerge and that will bring change because you know, we also change continuously I don't know the numbers and I didn't I prepared for that that came to me that you know how how many Selfs die and are renewed in our body every day. There's million. I don't So Yeah, that's that's at each moment in time. This is what's happening Now let's talk to to to really embrace change. Let's zoom a little bit on the dominant system and when you talk about the dominant system what is Can be blurry is where are we in the dominant system because we said that as living system systems are born grow Arrived at their peak decay and die and When we are in the system, it's very hard to see at what point of the life that system is and The system that is powerful it works is What I was saying before is at that peak We have this delusional sense of permanence. We were successful It won't right So we think that will live forever. I told that's why I was saying we want to live forever and be young and beautiful If you have a time in your life where you you thought that you were happiest we think that will stay at that moment forever and That's what happens with system and society It's one of the reasons so that Society or organization don't want to change that they are their peak and they think That this will be real and true forever But at the same time at that peak zone While the dominant system has the delusional sense of permanence There was it's called the pioneer start those that see That the system is not right anymore it's like the agile manifesto in 2001 those were pioneers at that time and Normally, they are kind of isolated I don't want to talk for forever They are kind of isolated at the beginning isolated initiative, but say this system has a problem They kind of see the starting of the decade But they are As a separate voices and also Very hard to believe in those voices there What Starts us to happen is that those pioneers start to connect together and One if it's one thing that this model of tulips Does wants to do is to name those pioneers connect them together and then nourish So it looks it looks maybe two very easy, but it's powerful name Name a movement a movement without name. It's powerless Think of agile if you didn't have a name At all, how would that be successful now? This is look simple, but name them Connect them so they become stronger and nourish them so they become they they can get even stronger and then There's the emergent Oops. Oh, yes, sorry There's the emergent system that will Start to to grow. So this is the second loop the emerging loop Normally to have been emergent so dominant emergent What happens to the new system now than? Here With the pioneers Right now in that moment, you know dominant system the peak They saw what what is the dominant system? Do once want to do exactly exactly why Exactly, it's a self-defense Exactly, yeah, yeah, it's fear, but actually it's normal that this is really one of my messages is that if you're you're Frustrated that the change doesn't happen is that it's really a living system logic the dominant system Sees the pioneers as a threat and What are they what in a living system? What does it does it activate when there's a threat? defense Immune system So the immune system of dominance system Stands to active so they can smash the pioneers and In organization what what is blame? It doesn't work I said fear-driven behavior. It doesn't work in our environment because that that that too many meetings, whatever Whatever arguments it has Now after Connecting the the pioneers the idea is to create coherent patterns for the the new system First connecting them and then see what are the patterns? You know what those pioneers can have as a common Way of working scrum was one of them. Let's say a pattern You know the first are giles doing so and so it's true that it was A lot of initiatives at the moment. There's something that happens that it creates coherence and the the emergency system is more powerful and they have patterns and they have a Shirt purpose and the cause that Makes them stronger Okay, so now That's all this was a little bit of theory now. I would like to Make this concrete for you because it's really a model and as I saw that for to to Reinforce the new emergent system. There are three things that To in this mode to be done name connect and nourish and The exercise I'm inviting you to do it's an individual exercise and you have it on the handouts It's not exercise number one is after so you skip exercise a number one that will do or not do I don't know and there's a list of questions and there are these questions What is the change that you want to see in your organization? In your own environment name, what's the tribe of pioneers? Who are those ones? How can you? help them connect better and What are the ways that? You can nourish them more So they don't die as Umbrians, okay, is that clear? So what I suggest You yet take three minutes to answer the questions and then five minutes to To share With your group. Okay, something like that eight minutes. So Okay Yeah Yeah, three minutes to capture five minutes to talk May add two minutes bonus if necessary is that clear maybe it's The time to start sharing The idea of sharing is also to get inspired by other People's idea Yeah, I think it's it will be a good time to start sharing the others what What were your ideas? at a table all table with you one for one or Or prepare I see pairs organise. Oh, it's the best for you Do you want to join another table? Yeah It's it's pure me pioneers you talk about the pioneers those that are willing to change the system So it's not people that you want that they change they are already in they are the change triggers Okay. Yeah, that's that's For the moment. So I hope you had good conversation And you've got inspired by the ideas of the others I Listen a little bit of the discussion here. I hope it was clear The idea is that you name connect and nourish the pioneers Those that want to ignite the change. So it's not about convincing them They are already convinced it just need to reinforce them. If not the dominant system Will say kill kill kill Okay, so this was The first exorcist for for the pioneers and that's why I say if that's another take away from this workshop is This one if you identify part identify pioneers that want the change in organization Connect them and nourish them Where we go on Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah Absolutely you can yeah, they have a common intent and they're doing little things all they feel that they can't do it That's why you wanted me to nourish them. They are not it's like an embryo and they are not Um Strong enough yet, but they have that intent. That's also why if I'm lucky Well, it doesn't work anymore. No, it's it's this thing that Well, no, I don't want to accept this This is a Microsoft thing It's in the middle of presentation. It has absolutely some updates to do or whatever and then luckily it's not there, but It's working again, thank you you're you're you're my hero Actually, I wanted to come here back through this slide What I would say, you know, it's creating a shared purpose That intent they have an intent if you connect them at least to have a that shared purpose It's motivating and it's the same thing with this within a society that have today It's all this voices that are stronger stronger about the climate change, etc but when it it started it started like What what does society said about them that they are kind of pirates that are Activists yeah, yeah activists illegal, you know in England the The people in UK the people that are activists for climate change Actually, they are trained To how to act when they will be put in jail Because as it is stronger they will they say they occupy sites, etc So the the system of they all they are disrupted the what the actions are illegal So one of the training is that prepare them how to act when they will be charged So it's a way to connect so now as I said there are this There's one form of resistance I just wanted to have a focus on that is when the new emergence system starts to be Powerful enough There one of the form of the resistance is to copy it copy the copy the new but based on the old logic And hey, we are also doing the same thing and because I use this This Activist for climate change That is now stronger and stronger one of the form of resistance Which is copying is the greenwashing everyone's green and But those are Copy the new which is not innovation innovation Thinking differently is by the pioneer and by in the emergency system. What is said in this model of two looks also we said that This change is a disruptive change which might not be a good news There is no way to say that's that's the the line the dotted line there There's no way to say I will easily step from there. There's disrupt that it needs courage There's not there's no path between them It's and it's also because of this This way of behavior as a living system as the New the pioneers the new system is detected as a virus The dominant system the old system will activate its immune system. So There's no dialogue Okay, and That's The hard moment and that is the second part of the exercise is that okay the the dominance System grew it was steward and then it decays after the peak and This is the the hardest experience to have from dominant to dying from being at the peak of its splendor to Decay but what is What is important about decaying system is and That's a message to pioneers or change agents is Compost what we what life does and we we are very bad as Human species is at composting By the way, and that is a Side comment. We are the only speed a species that creates garbage Garbage meaning something that no other Life type of life Needs to leave all other species create something that that is used by Others but we create garbage Why and our organization also we forgot to compost what does composting means in this is Taking those old behaviors and see How they can nourish the new one? Because we have this tendency and pioneers can have this tendency to say all of that is bad and That creates even more resistance, of course and What What the the the two models loop says for another three actions so for for the emergent system and for the pioneers it was name name connect nourish and for the dying system another three actions is Hospice so hospice the old system so can it can die It's the support that today composted so take what is good to feed the new and Also, the third one is illuminate is illuminate the path So it can be safer for for the the people to cross the chest from the old to the new and What is really a very very important and one a question Which it's kind of a rhetorical right now, but we'll have another exercise How can we provide? Compassion to the dying system. This is something that we forgot a way to Disactivate that immune system is to To provide compassion Which means what? Saying that the the way that that system acts is normal because It wants to stay safe Or do you say that the problem is your manager in this water? I say well that manager is behavior is normal Because it's what he knew that was the success path he had so this is so it's part of the dominant system and And And really the compassion is very important. So to compassion and hospice what means is a Support the dust of the smooth Transition so the smooth dying of the the dominant system I will present you the questions and will be the second part of the exercise what actions of compassion Toward the people in the dominant system that I believe in that dominant system Can you put in place so they can feel less threatened? The second one is to To protect also what are usually in in in the dominant system and you know when in the transformation always have sponsors or People that actually are in the dominant system don't feel safe enough to be pioneers Not anyone wants to be Greta Thunberg But there are people that support Would protect the pioneers so The second question is who are in the dominant system protectors of the pioneers? Who do you identify in your organization the the pioneers and what are the ways? to illuminate the plot the path Toward the new and that can amplify also the pioneer work So that to create the the this new eventually this new safer engagement You know we talk of the psychology is safe. So What are the ways and I think you I I invite you to the Second exercise. Yeah, sorry The second exercise on your hands out. You have this question and Equally, I'll ask you to reflect five minutes on answering this question and then share and Is mutually inspire yourself? Yeah, exactly Oh, that's what was the first exercise So go back to see how you nourish those pioneers now. Yeah, the second exercise is how you support those people that say We try to transformation. They have the transformation fatigue Or or it's also an avoid me avoiding behavior No, that we don't change because we know all change we changed all the time. So We I'm really invited to reflect on that and at the end of this session, I'll give some answers eventually So, so if I understand, well, they're different protectors Yeah, yes, but now what I invite you is to reflect on your Current organization so not don't think theoretically generally it's in your organization who can be you know So if you have an international organization think what who do you do in identifiers protectors? locally or at the head office or Or or offices other offices of head offices in India Okay Another five minutes to go. Well, I I'd invite you to start sharing So you can get inspired by the others So I I hope you had good discussions and I would like to invite you to a third round Of discussion in which the wisdom of the group is At service of one person which means one of one in each group can present his or her situation and Then you you have a bigger flip chart paper and that person writes down or with bosses on that but the the ideas That the others in the group can give him or her so they can Nourish their pioneer and can also illuminate and amplify their work So that the people in the dominant system can become willing to engage on the new path So focus on that Is is the instruction clear or not? Yeah, so one one person described the situation and the others in the group gives her or him ideas To answer that person don't reach this situation. Okay. It's a way to So the group is at the service of one person And if you had time we could do all the people but pick one In your group. Okay That will the be the gift that the each group will give that person Yes, oh, it's the idea is that one of one of you presented her or his situation and Both the other two of you give them answer Suggestions with that second question mainly how can okay, so It's the gift that you're giving. I don't know. I don't know where it comes from, but it's nice Yeah, the idea is to have a map for the person that For the one that you are working for so the idea was that one of you present the situation and the other helps them helps him to And they put There with post it or you write on that map. What are what were the the ideas that you've got? that was simple Sorry, not necessarily like that. It's just the answers to the questions that you can put ideas on post it Like brainstorming, you know, no I Will keep it simple It's about two minutes left, so ever if you didn't finish it. It's okay Okay, I'm sure I'm sure that you can I invite you even to continue the discussion outside and give Give the the feedback. I just wondered Wanted to say how how did it feel to work and give ideas to one of your Colleagues, thank you Woody. How was it? Yes pioneer the one that has initiatives to change is the rebel The one that says I don't would aid it couldn't be No matter who that's what I was giving the examples of Greta Thunberg She's a 15 year teenager in terms of legitimacy on politics or Science She had none, but she observed That the dominant system is cracked. So that's what it's not a role In in the organization and thank you for that that question is that person that is the rebel Whatever the role is yeah That was the thing. But yeah, thank you for that that question. Okay, so I I would like to go guide you for mom and Another set of concepts real quick because this is huge and I'm really passionate about I Hope you felt well to either receive ideas from your parents at table or To be at service of someone usually it's it's quite nice So what happens is that as I said these two loops that are kind there's no link. There's kind of disruptive The path to one system to another is painful is it and it's chaotic There's no right way. So that's why the questions that I asked you are pretty open I don't tell you do this this and this it's just For the pure pioneers name them connect them nourish them for this dominant system find the protectors Illuminate and hospice to create so that's our own hospice is really important for me compassion and Compost Compassion for the people that don't want to change. It's normal. They defend themselves and compost recognize that The dying system will also nourish the there's something good Look up what is good in the dominant system And sometimes is hard mainly when we have very strong beliefs and I give an example as well the industrial system, you know the the Petroleum extract industry That it's it's a it's a decaying system and This challenging question what what is good? How do we compost what this is the system brought in terms of I don't know Well being for me, I don't know. I'm not I don't Want to give answers, but that's the mindset There's always something good that can nourish the new system but the the path is chaotic and because it's chaotic it's once again a threat and you and it's it's hard to go in and Yeah, I won't have time to really go through it Deeply and I knew it, but I still wanted to to Present that that the way to cross this chasm is to decode to this deconstruct our own beliefs Because pointing to someone else's belief that our wrong is easy deconstruct my own beliefs not that easy and A way that I want to offer it. It's it's from a model from Dave Gray For the liminal thinking so thinking at the borders is that say that reality is at the same point somewhere and We interact with with that reality and then we have an experience and that experience combined With our relevant needs because we each one of us needs so we create a story about it and that story is our set of assumptions So we have an experience That answers to some some needs we have so we create assumptions and On that assumption we create something that is called obvious our own reality. How is that? It's a little bit theoretical or it's okay Okay, so that I create my own beliefs. I have an experience. This has happened So now I know this is true and What happens also is that if someone else had the same type of experience and same time of needs as me There we create the collective obvious and that's what it's called the self Sealing bubble of beliefs as shared beliefs group thinking And the group thinking is that it's a set of beliefs of one group and Guess what other groups have their own self sealed bubble of belief like Pioneers will have the there's dominant system have their set of beliefs and We create here our own reality it's what is obvious and there's a gap and the one way to The live the threshold to set to pass from the set of beliefs that we have To set of beliefs be is what is called us that liminal space is being aware of this model and deconstruct them Question always what is obvious? I'm not entering into details Because it's all a process that I have here, but question what is obvious for me I said what what are what are the assumptions? I'm doing what are my needs? What is the experience and this is a way to to go from the set of beliefs a to the beliefs be? Because this is the threshold because when we deconstruct our beliefs what's happening? What's happening and an idea? Sorry, yeah Yeah, we we don't have any assumptions anymore and what does that mean? Sorry Insecurity exactly void chaos. I don't have my references Self-doubt so a lot so that's very complicated. It's an awkward not easy Place to be and that's also an invite you to compassion and also to self-compassion by the way So what is called as the resilient learning is is happening in in the liminal space and Another model I will I want to share with you because I'm working with this It's the theory you change curves saying that change doesn't happen in a linear Way, I I mean at a and I want to be at b. It's more like that I'm Getting rid of my beliefs. I'm present to reality You know the top of reality because I don't have any assumptions Any judgments? It's a hard place, but I don't and then new behaviors and no idea emerge and the way that we go to be Is like that? We renounce we I love to say that we you can't bring something new If your space is already packed with them, so you need to renounce the something so that was oh What I wanted really to it's a it's the same thing It's a way to say how do we cross that you is and the liminal space What is my obvious? What are my assumptions? So it's exactly what I've told you about the on the slide the needs What are my needs? How do I feel my needs and that let's see? what things that Actually are dangerous as I said I for me and make me in insecurity and make me have another type of beliefs It's also a way to have compassion saying hey I have made the assumption of that needs maybe the other group or the dominant system had the same needs Guess what just that they have others made other assumptions But if we meet there were we have the same needs Then we can construct something together. It's a way by the way to to Manage conflicts So that's that completely other topic so with that Yes, because it's the last session a Way to go through the that you What I wanted to do is to make that exercise number one on your hands out which is here and connect to our own body Real quick exercise Just to end the session and an experiment transformation. It's called the stuck exercise It's the same like this one and think of some situation that you might be stuck with and please Please if you want to stand because we need that If that's okay with you to stand I invite you to stand I Invite you to stand It's a more complex exercise, but we will do it individually and now Think at a situation where you think you're stuck. You don't know how to solve it Is that that our body knows that has a lot of of ideas and try to make What's called a sculpture take a posture that that is That illustrates that stuck We say it's an exercise that invites you to to put your brain down and and tapped into other Other resources so Everyone that has absolutely no stuck no situation that I can give some of mine Okay, so I think of one of mine and this is I'm trying to do a demo of that so And then have a posture This is mine Not with my brain is what just thinking of it. It's like that and try to stay with it Staying in a stuck situation is not sustainable so stay as long as you can and then Let your body move It will move or and we you'll finish with another one. So let me This is my second and this was for me my second sculpture the second posture and what I invite you is to put a word that comes to you without thinking on the first one and on the second one and That is all and that will tell me if you've got any ideas how to get unstuck afterwards, okay? Is that okay? I? Let you do this exercise I Let you do this exercise for you right now Then I will applaud you think of it It's a work with yourself stay as long as you Can and then let your body move and put a name a word on the new And all of you have a word for the new posture Yes Sorry believe relief Discomfort the second one, okay So I'm not sure because I really wanted to you can do it with yourself. You can do it also by in triads so three people are together and The others also give a feedback what they felt about About this I know it looks awkward, but it's you know deconstruct them our beliefs one of our beliefs is that the body is a taxi for the brain and Actually, it's not true. So you have a lot of A lot of information that the body has and this was a way to invite you at the end At the end of the session to connect with with another type of change Okay, I think this is This is kind of all there's a There's a minute Some minutes left. I wanted to offer you as a conclusion about change this Quote that is one of my favorite In saying that all change passes by three phases The the stages the first one when it's ridiculous You know the exercises we've just done when I say tap in the intelligence of the body in our Culture professional culture that this is ridiculous right now I've made you Do a ridiculous exercise didn't I? the second phase is When it's dangerous is violently opposed because it's dangerous. You know, it's the dominant system that starts to react Because it's dangerous and the third stage when it becomes Self-evident everyone does like that Now I just wanted to finish with this Connect with me I'm doing this type of Workshops longer and You're interested Please connect with me and I think we still have some moment for reaction questions violently reactions Yes, yeah, Mike So for everyone, I'm not sure if you'll understood the last exercise so what Anna John could it was, you know, she did a somatic exercise in this somatic exercise what we do is like our memory resides in our body and What we are actually trying to do is tap into it and our body knows a lot of things just not just our brains and When we were in a uncomfortable position, I could like you know for an example we could say, okay In an uncomfortable position, I can say, okay I am having a lot of challenges for agile transformation in my organization, okay The body is in an uncomfortable position. You are just thinking of that pain and once when you are coming into another position Which you feel is relaxed Okay at that point of time your body and your mind will start throwing some ideas actually if you put some Efforts into it and you will get us one or two nice ideas from there So that was actually a very beautiful exercise to you know, actually tap into our own learnings Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for that It's true that I I saw this and I didn't have time really to create the safe space for you That exercise might have been awkward, but you have it in the handouts and it's exactly that The body inspire your mind Thank you Other questions In terms of representing the emergent system, yeah, why is there a dip because the dominant system also emerged earlier, right? Exactly, but the idea is that it's really to to make them different Actually, the dominant system was an emergent system Before but it's it's a choice of representation. We are here now in the dominant system And you know the dominant system. It's a way to represent that it decays It's it's only that it's only a way to represent, but you're right the dominant system was an emerging system Yeah, it's just about experiential this is more of enlightening thoughts for us because what I felt is more from Structural or non-living perspective only to approach the Transformations, but how we connect these things with the living organisms one seat as a living thing. That's a very different perspective I got it from you. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you Any other question any other question? Okay. Thank you. Have a nice day. We have now time for networking and dinner Enjoy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Enjoy your evening