 Okay, so does anybody have any questions in the room to start with? Yes, Keely. Thank you. Yeah, so my question is for Riannon. Do you think that the Declare sisters were sort of uniquely positioned to have these sort of avenues to legal redress that perhaps other women wouldn't have had just sort of by nature, sort of fortune or their relationship with the king rather than, you know, is it something that other women would have been able to have access to easily or is it something that's a bit more unique to them? Thank you. So they probably have better personal access to the king in that they could probably enter into correspondence with him. But I don't think that necessarily helps them that much in this period. But what we do see that is somewhat accessible to all women, so everyone could petition with a private petition. And we think that that was fairly accessible to all freemen. And essentially the only cost involved was to draft your petition in Latin, which was fairly cheap, we think. So really there is this direct conduit between ruler and ruled. I don't think it necessarily helps everyone. And we can see very often in the petitions of Special Collections 8 in the National Archives, that very often they are just sort of this misters, you know, you need to do this at common law or the council can sort this out, the king does not want to deal with this. So there are definitely some routes that are accessible to all women, whether or not it helped them in this period when the authorities pretty much just ignored convention remains to be seen however. But thank you for the question. Thank you very much to you both. And I'm afraid it's another question for Rhiannon on a similar theme. You referred to Eleanor DeClaire and sort of her taking on a quasi queenly role with regard to intercession. And I'm wondering if you could say a bit more about the language the rhetoric surrounding that and perhaps particularly how she's addressed. When people seek her help. Well, this is an annoyance that I had recently was, I've tried to go to the National Archives a few times to have a look at this letter in person. And it's always been, it's always been out with a member of staff. So I've not quite managed to get my eye in with this letter quite yet. But I do think it's interesting that Joan has obviously, I don't think we actually have the letter from Joan to Eleanor. The letter that we do have is from ancient correspondence of the chance to re an Exchequer, and that is Eleanor writing a letter to water of Norwich, who was the treasurer. So she's essentially just asking for a little bit of extra cash to be put towards Joan while she's in the Tower of London. So unfortunately, we can't really get a sense of how Joan might have addressed her. I think it's fair to say that, you know, there was probably this community of women at court who perhaps recognize that something really quite wrong was going on in the background and felt perhaps this sense of solidarity towards each other. But unfortunately, we can't really see the other side of it so I'm afraid I'm limited with what I can say on that one. I've got a question for Jamie about the, so I was really struck by just how sort of vitriolic the language was is amazing like I really know that a man more, a man will meet to be a captain of evil, evil minded persons and to be a leader of the town, sort of sounds more like religious polemic that a sort of legal record and I was just wondering what we know of sort of the religion of echo and that dimension of the dispute or whether it could be a one word answer and that could be no. But how much evidence that survives of that. And, well, I guess. Well, firstly, Sir, our fellow who was, he was involved in quite a lot of disputes with the church. It was like, because it was the acupisical manner so the Archbishop of York and the parliot parks, which he was always poaching in and there's a parallel case at the exact time this is going on, apparently out of his malice and cruelty is hunting all of Edward Lee's dear to destruction, but more on religion itself. The thing that when I said that the, the agreement fell through was because by the time it had been signed like the pilgrimage of grace and kicked out and Beverly was heavily involved, which was kind of a religious conservative or Catholic or if I call it religious uprising, kind of defensive local custom against centralization by the central government and a lot of the townspeople kind of they tried to get a liquor on side again as a rebel leader. And then you see all the same name popping up like it goes around to Sanderson's house for breakfast and they're trying to convince him and then Richard. Richard Wilson who stands on the bench and is the one talk about hearing grudge. He, he's one of announces the rebellion and they're all ringing the common bell and it's the same thing. So, I guess. I guess as a kind of local magnate it's kind of a sort of conservative religious kind of figurehead I guess in some ways and Yeah, that's how it comes out of it. I also have a question for for Jamie if that's all right which is another one about the broader context of this dispute and to a certain extent it's representativeness, which is how much is the sort of I suppose the crowns interest in this and I'm especially thinking about Cromwell, who you mentioned was a sort of one of the figures that was petitioned to about this at one point as alongside star chamber which is the really the chancellors domain by this point. How much was their interest in this influenced by their concern about what's going on in Yorkshire generally in this period I know this is just before the pilgrimage of grace. But is that anything to do with the context or are there enough cases like this elsewhere that you think this is a more general phenomenon rather than a regional concern. I'm not sure about contemporary cases in Yorkshire and because of kind of a sort of different case that is over time it's it's quite representative in. Yeah, over time, like the same sort of languages used in different kinds of parliamentary elections and civic elections, the election of sheriffs in London which became the 1680s, which was a part of political one, you see the same usage of language but as to the wider Yorkshire. Love to discuss that. So this question is. Sorry, just finding it. So this this question is for both of you. Thank you for the fantastic papers this person says, I wonder if you could say a bit more about how your work is shaped by the surviving sources and what you don't have. What do your administrative and legal sources not give us in your opinion. Thank you for a really interesting question. Yes, I was answering Sam earlier with sort of. We very often only get one half of the correspondence that's quite helpful to us so we're sort of very often. You know there's just this void of response, which would be really helpful to know in writing a thesis on on this subject. I think, in terms of my sources in general, and I look quite a lot at petitions, so private petitions, and there obviously is this skewin sources really because I'm only really seeing when things do go wrong, and when things, you know, need to be done by the authorities. So I'm not really necessarily seeing when everything's going quite well. I mean, maybe it's my interpretation of Edward the second drain I'm not necessarily sure there is much evidence of it going well. But even if there were, I probably wouldn't see it in the sources either. So that's one of the great mysteries of medieval political history, I suppose. Well, yeah, I mentioned in the paper as well but especially the allocer cases it's just one sided bill of complaints there's not even depositions or anything like that. So I guess you miss out on things if you're looking for details or a kind of what happened, but I think there's a lot of sources and trying to kind of read them in depth as opposed to the kind of diaries and usual source you think of the history of emotions and things that kind of you get to see what was considered plausible in a judicial context to kind of describe motivation and describe action and I think you do get a kind of a sense of how emotions were seen as related to sort of how they were played out in social practice, I guess. It's a common as well it's obviously a car case so it's going to be about anger and rage and so the lexicon that comes up you do get a very skewed one. It's a question for for Riannan. It's a broad question really and it sort of follows on from the last question about about what's possible and what's not possible. I think we're going to an early career conference focused very much on on new and emerging research agendas so in light of the sources that are available. What would you characterize as being what's happening at the moment other than your own work those kind of new and emerging research questions in terms of the history of women politics political culture in medieval Britain and Ireland so in a very broad brush kind of question. But I'll give it a go. So, I suppose there is this emerging idea. I think for the last 20 years or so we've been thinking about knowing that that women didn't necessarily have a well recognized role in politics. How could they find a role. So, for example, the work of Louise Wilkinson, maybe familiar with has done a lot of work on women as sheriffs in the 13th century. And so it's finding ways of attributing a political voice to women that perhaps hasn't necessarily been found before. And I think the work of my supervisor Gwen Seaborn also in looking at Magna Carta and and statute law and looking at, you know, could this be seen as involving women. Even though obviously the Latin is very much, you know, Liba homo free man with that conventionally be seen as including women by contemporaries. And as I said in my paper, even if it, you know, was considered to only talk about men. It was used by women in that period to actually assert their rights. So there are definitely some, you know, new and exciting things going on in women's history and I hope we see an awful lot more to this questions for Jamie. In terms of the language you identified, is that just language picked up in this case, or is this a wider lexicon that appears in other sources. You know, and where you first in the thesis of built a lexicon using dictionaries and philosophical texts so they'd often is kind of a blend of Aristotelian stoic and Christian views which are just mixed together and then usually described the being kind of basic passions are usually lists of like far six or 11, and which then become more complex and would be a basic one and then it graph rage indication, depending on the different context so I guess built up the lexicon by kind of you spot the really obvious words like the rage and the fury, and then you kind of see what they're used alongside our coupled with and over time. I think what you could call the emotional lexicon alone try not to use a term, as I said, and it's all words which you would describe morality character motivation action, and then they interact with kind of social terms so things like moderation prudence or about sort of restraining action or directing it and civility, which is all about kind of restraint and social propriety so I think you can build up kind of link of link of emotions and virtues and things that you get kind of to what the early moderns saw them. It's, it's another one for Jamie. Sorry, Jamie. Sort of thinking about emerging disciplines. And I'm just sort of wondering how much, if at all, and this is just because my own interests, how much of thought sort of thought about all the morality and language. I was sort of very struck by in the account those loads of sort of, you know, rough talking. I suppose you might consider it and the sort of the bell ringing. So that relates in the sort of written record to what we know about sort of adding modern understandings and fears about noise and sort of discord, I guess. And how much emotion plays into that. I guess the language of peace and quiet pieces are kind of social ideal, which is used in all sorts of, which is an ideal in behavior, feeling, social peace. Sorry. I'll have to say all that again. Yeah, peace and quiet. The key ideals in all kinds of walks, all kinds of context, behavior, feeling, action, social order. So I'd say those references denied. So I'm quite unquiet title as well and just guess any reference to that is a kind of would be read in these judicial sources as negative. But then Christian Lydia as well as also said that politics, civic politics was loud anyway because it was all kind of voting by sort of cheers and hands raised and sort of no one really knew who the electorate was so everyone would gather and make a noise so I guess it would be very easy, depending on your purposes to portray that as a riot when it could just be a kind of boisterous election. That's such a question. I have two questions for each of you. I'll go with Rhiannon. And thank you both your papers. Also, I really love the title of your talk. I really enjoyed the reference. The answer may well be no but do we have much information about the in particular political interactions between these sisters, specifically anything they might have collaborated on but how they might have interacted with one another politically and managed that kind of personal and political relationships. That's a good one because I think a lot of the interactions we do see are more to do with their husbands and the fact that obviously Hugh dispenser essentially Hugh dispenser the younger essentially just tried to get the full inheritance for himself. And so there's obviously a great deal of hostility between Hugh dispenser, so Eleanor's husband, and then the, the two husbands of Margaret and Elizabeth. We don't really know how that would have unfortunately we can't really see how how that would have impacted their relationship, and we can really only see it as a prism through through these men as it were. I hope that they tried to help each other, because that would be a really nice thought but in the absence of any evidence for it. It doesn't seem to be the case but hopefully I find hopefully I find some sort of evidence for that. It's always the dream isn't it that you find those. Thank you. And then for the Jamie, you mentioned about the intense emotions being used to discredit somebody. Do you have any evidence in your sources of that being used after outside of the star chamber. Is it brought up again later that somebody has been emotional has shown intense emotional ones and so it's more likely that they've done it again, and it can be weaponized. Yeah, and there's a parliamentary case in Chichester in 1580s and basically, I guess it's a similar thing is kind of, kind of raise up the commons and it's all about who the commons are and who can vote. And also that it's the same thing used it because I've looked at matrimonial cases as well separation cases and it's all about the husband's name. It's not described as unreasonable or unmeasured. It's could have a certain amount of swaying and a physical correction the wives and things like that and all the cases kind of accept that violence is a kind of integral part of like the marriages and things but it's all about whether it's measured. So whether it's too intense. At that point it becomes a crime and cause a separation. Yeah, that's how it's all framed it's all about moderation is the ideal. And soon as you straight beyond that kind of not fulfilled your role and then quick marriage. Thank you. Thank you both for two really interesting papers and again I'm going to be a bit cheeky and pose one question for each of us all right. Let's start with reamon. And again I stress I'm not a medieval specialist so I may be slightly exposing my ignorance here. But you obviously alluded to the kind of political turmoil and upheaval of Edward II reign. I wondered, you know, to what extent would you characterize the reign of Edward II as kind of an aberration within English politics and sort of political stability at that period or do you see these kind of power struggles as just sort of part and parcel of medieval politics. That's a very interesting question so thank you for posing it. So in the scope of my thesis I'm actually my first chapter really compares what had gone on in the previous half century or so. And that in the aftermath of the second Baron's war so after the Battle of Evesham and the death of Simon de Montfort. And what we see there is actually, you don't see any women imprisoned at like you do in Edward II reign. There seemed to be this understanding that women should be protected in some way afterwards because there is this acknowledgement that for most women, they probably didn't really agree necessarily with what their husbands were doing. And it wouldn't be fair for them to lose their inheritance or their dow or their maintenance in widowhood, just because their husband had decided to rebel. So, you know, I think I've also compared it to what happens to the Welsh women and the Scots women during the wars of independence in the 1270s to 1290s or so. And we do see a similar sort of thing but it's, it's tricky because we're viewing it. So the border warfare is obviously slightly different to civil war. And so, I think you've also got to bring in the context of hostage taking, which is pretty common on the continent, although less so with the taking of female hostages. In terms of civil war and the context of civil war, I'd say Edward, Edward II reign is pretty rare, other than some some cases you see with King John's reign. So, to my mind, it is a bit of an aberration, but I will be developing that slightly more in my thesis as well. Thank you. And then Jamie's slightly cheeky question, perhaps, but I'm just interested in the kind of the, you know, the scope of your work more broadly on, you know, the history of emotions. And, you know, we're all really conscious that politics, you know, here in Britain lately and indeed around the world has been particularly polarized and divisive in recent years. And I just wonder whether you feel there's any lessons that we can draw from your work for contemporary politics and political discourse. That's a cheeky question. I guess, moderation, moderation, moderation. Thank you. It's all emotional, but just which emotions and how intense. Are there any final questions or we've managed to run all the way to the end of this session we've really grilled the speakers so if nobody has anything else to ask I think we'll leave it there for this panel. And it just remains to thank our speakers again for two great and really well connected papers, I think, and we'll reconvene for the next panel at 20 past two. In the meantime, you know, feel free to go out and get lunch and the exhibition I believe is running upstairs on Henry the eighth defender of the faith question mark. So if anybody would like to go and have a look at that we encourage it. So thank you very much.