 I sometimes feel like if some of the women who create content, especially in the IG space, where men, they would be seen as corn balls, I'm going to keep it a buck, I'm going to keep it a buck. I'm going to keep it a buck. Say more, say more, say more. Not a man here who can sense me, I'm on the pure Elohim with the energy. Black boy tell me how you really feel, I just want to be with you. So we say kind of flippantly, black people need therapy, black people need therapy. From your vantage point, from your professional experience, from your education, I want you to elaborate on what that means slash like really paint a picture of how vital what we're talking about, the therapeutic deficit that we have in our community is and the trauma is and if it continues to go and address like what could potentially be our future as a community. Therapy is vital for African Americans, particularly because it allows us to get to know ourselves intimately. So we can find parts of our humanity that systemically gets robbed from us. It allows us to come to grips with some very traumatic experiences and begins to develop the language around those experience. So we call that conceptualizing or contextualizing the experience. You begin to understand, you begin to understand, you can move about the world differently. The things that once triggered you or upset you in the same manner don't necessarily upset you. And if certain things do upset you, you have tools, you have ways to regulate your emotions in a way that you wouldn't have regular access to. And so it's a method of, I'll tell you like this, for the brothers and sisters who are familiar with martial arts, typically people take martial arts as a means to discipline their mind and their body as well and for them to coincide as one. And so if you look at mental health in that aspect, it is a means to discipline your mind so your actions can follow. And that is why it is so vital. It is so vital. We had it through our various different religious factions, whether it's the nation of Islam, the five percenters, the Baptist church, the Pentecostal, the AME, et cetera, et cetera. We've had factions of religious traditions that have given us means of mental and spiritual health. From a practical standpoint, what bridges the gap with mental health is that we provide specific tools and theory behind why you operate the way you operate and those moments where you find yourself at odds in how to not only get through but survive it in the healthiest manner. And then also be able to identify when it's not a situation that's thriving or survival worthy. At this point, we're not even want to, it's not about survival, it's about us finding ways to thrive. So I would say that's why we're surviving. Listen, that's the best definition I've gotten for therapy in a while. So I don't know if you're familiar with Joy Dugre or Dugarai. Yes. I hope I'm going to put you in there because I love her and hopefully one day I can interview her. I would love to meet you as well. My research is based off of her. Oh, so this is a fantastic question. It's loosely based. Draw a direct line for me as best you can between trauma, the original trauma, colonialism, chattel slavery, post-industrial reconstruction, and everything. And draw a line to how that leads to us today and our dysfunction. Because I think a lot of times we talk about critical race theory, histories are being taught properly. So we can't even properly contextualize a lot of the traumas that inform us and even the ways we think about ourselves, we think about men, we think about black women. So help me connect what happened 400 years ago and has happened since then to our dysfunction today. I'll make it real quick. So before I give this question, do I have permission to use an example you gave earlier as a means to? So earlier you gave example of the term attack, aggressive attack dog that occasionally fucks you and has a lot of money. If you break down that description that you gave to black men, all that can be traced to what we experienced in the enslavement period and then afterwards. If you look, all those were tropes basically. So aggressive attack dog that occasionally fucks is potentially Mandingo in the book. Those two characteristics rooted in those ideas that was garnered and developed in the Anthem Bellum South and in slavery and eventually came characteristics that became automatically associated with black men that only permeated in the larger society but also in our society directly. The money piece comes from being a capitalistic society and it being a society that is exploitative and so even the reference that you gave as far as that has money is exploitive. So you see how that mere example that you gave was connected to 400 years of oppression. So to answer your question, that's one example. One small example. So many examples. Talk about the women for a second because you know I've talked about like the Mamie, the Jezebel, the Sapphire, like so yeah. We are going through, would somewhat argue, a sexual renaissance for black women. Black women are being allowed to express their sexual desires and showcase themselves in an unapologetic way in various different spaces, not just hip hop, which is very positive. The drawback of it is that we're still doing it in a space that racism still exists and so the gaze is not all affirming. It's not like we're in a space where it's the Caribbean and it's carnival. Our bodies are not completely ours to conceptualize and so particularly when you look at black women for that matter, I mean, sisters, it's not by accident all the other women now are going under the knife to look at you, look like you and hell even sisters are going in a knife to look like the aptrux version of ourselves. Now I was born in the 80s, I grew up in the 90s and I'm from Texas, let me be clear on that and I remember noticing the different shapes of black women from a society standpoint but then also growing up in Texas. Now it's no secret if you're from the South and you're from where I'm from, you know that black women are holding down there, they fit and with that being said it was in surplus but every sister wasn't built like that and so at that time going under the knife wasn't something that was popularized in our culture yet, that was really something that was done in the European culture but over a period of time when we got a hold of it, you know, he's like, well, shit, we're gonna make this Coke bottle frame some serious and so now everybody, I even wrote it as a thought of the day, it's like, yo, blackness has now been reduced, it's been reduced from a true identity and now it's accessorized and that's because we gave them the algorithm. Back in the 90s, and I remember your topic as far as you referenced it, particularly with black women but back in the day, like in the 90s there was a phrase that used to be said, it's the black thing you wouldn't understand, not everybody understands us, you know, we gave them the recipe through social media, you know what I'm saying, they got access to it, you know, we gave the game up, remember the game was to be sold, not to be told, well, we telling them we're not even always selling, so you know, I get it, it's not completely our fault but you know, it's the collateral damage of it and again with sisters, their bodies are still being commodified in a particular way. Now, what's different now is that they're able to do it on their own terms more like through only fans and which again, from a social scientist standpoint, I can appreciate their agency and their ability to leverage their bodies you know, for their own means, you know, through sex work, I can respect that but then on the other end, I recognize that the community still has some fallout effects and so I struggle with this. I have a dilemma, you know, I remember I was conflicted, I struggle with it, you know, I went in, I want sisters to have unapologetic agency but I would love for us to have it in spaces where they won't be demonized for it and we can truly be accepting of all our sales, we're not there yet, you know, and I think to be quite honest, as long as we're in America, we never really will quite have it because of the structure of the society as a whole but that's another. So there was a comedian's name is Andrew Schultz, he said. A brilliant idiot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he said that, shout out to him, man, he's a great man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he does good work. Yeah, he said that, you know, a lot of girls who are posting pictures of themselves on social media, whether they're only fans, Instagram, whatever, they say, oh, it's artistic expression as if it gives it a step above literally sexual exploitation. And then he made the point, well, when you think about art, art is a thing that's sold. That's literally what art is. It is. It is a commodity, right? So why do you think there's this disconnect? Or do you think it is a disconnect? There isn't a disconnect and they're just trying to frame it in a way that's more palatable, more politically correct, or do you think there's a disconnect between showing my body off and how it connects to my generational exploitation? So I want to be careful in how I answer this. We're going to call this a working answer, if you will. So audience, allow me some grace, if you will, because I foresee a future where this will be, this will be malleable. I'm going to say that in some contexts, it's both. And it's both based off of the intent, the intent of the person creating me art, but then also the viewer, because that is a relationship. So people who choose to make content that is sexually oriented and do call it art, I think some of them are intentionally putting things together to where you can see the artistic value. And it may come from a foundation of an aesthetic, whether that be scholastically or ratchet. There's a spectrum of people. And you can kind of see it. There's an on-vrind guard to it. The best way I could give an example to it is like, I'm going to use a hip hop example. If I was to give an example of a woman, that's a rapper, a hip hop artist, that is contour, contour of what little Kim and Trina represented in the 90s, I would have to give it first to that of a Nicki Minaj, somewhat of a Cardi B, and of course the city girls, because they are direct descendants of that aesthetic. And so although obviously they have their own nuances and differences, they come from a tradition of women who have shown their sexuality as a means of not only liberation of freedom, but also how they operate in the streets too. And so it's both. I'm selling myself, and I understand the drawback of that, but I'm also selling myself on my own terms. And while I'm showing you myself, I'm going to show you how I want to show myself. I want to add my identity, my flair to it. And so that's why I said it's both. And I will say, again, the intent of both parties matters, because if you're attempting to convey a message, that means there's a way you have to edit it. There's a way you're conveying it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the person viewing it is going to see your point, but it's your job as the artist to be as clear as possible and how you articulate with the message you want to convey. And so that's the artist's job. On the flip side, as a viewer, not every viewer is created equal. So what do I mean by that? There are some people that are going to be, because of their lived experience, because of their knowledge base, because of their awareness, they're going to see what you're going for. And they're going to see the nuances of how you present your body and the lyrics that are attached to it, and et cetera, et cetera. And then some, depending on the content of it, depending on the content, some people will be like, they're just showing ass and titties, or they're just showing themselves fucking. It really depends. And so it depends on the genre of art. If we're talking only fans, I don't have only fans. You know, I don't have only fans. I don't watch only fans. So I can't necessarily say the spectrum of content that's there, but I would assume that some of the quality is high and some of it is low. And I think you can kind of see who's putting in the effort and who's not. But I think that also reflects the fan base, too. The quality of the viewer's expectations plays a role in that. Because for some women, I'm being honest with you, I feel like some women just create content of their bodies because they know at the bare minimum that's going to sell, it gets the likes. And the artistic piece is a secondary afterthought to polish, to make it not enough. Some of them present in the basic. We're going to call it spade or spade. That's why I can even speak personally in this. There are certain pictures that I have scrolled past and not liked. Not because the woman wasn't beautiful, but to me, it just seems forced. It seems forced. And I'm going to be honest with you. I sometimes feel like, bear with me, folks, I sometimes feel like if some of the women who create content, especially in the IG space, were men, they would be seen as corn balls. I'm going to keep it a buck. I'm going to keep it a buck. I'm going to keep it a buck. Say more, say more, say more. It just gives not trying to give some type of creativity. There's no creativity. I don't mind you showing your ass to titties, but be creative. Show some effort and thought. But again, that's also as the person that's viewing is responsible to evoke them. Because, hey, we stopped liking the shit. You ain't going to think different. You're going to run a different plan. So to your point, why is it that we give, as a society, we give women more latitude than that? Because like you said, right? Because we don't value ourselves. Men have not been socialized to value their gaze, their emotions that come with their gaze. Their sense of value is not valued in the same context. So do you think we're kind of predisposed to look for reasons to disqualify men and look for reasons to qualify women? It depends. It depends. I don't want to go that far and say that necessarily. I think it's circumstantial. I think in reference to, because I see it with men too, it's like I see the men who are content creators and whether they be fashion oriented or they're fitness oriented. Brother, with all due respect, if he sees it, he'll be like, he talking about me. It's one brother that he's a fantastic athlete. And I'm sure he's a dope ass trainer. And he's creative. But like he's doing these really, he's doing these really elaborate exercises with different equipment to show his athleticism. And although, I mean, honestly, he's doing like Guinness World Book worthy type of things. And although it's eye catching and it is creative, what's interesting about it, it's like, it's very over the top. It's like, if he wasn't a premier athlete, it would be on the fallout of him, like actually getting hurt would be on a jackass level. He's doing some really dangerous shit. And it shows us how elite of an athlete he is. But then it's also kind of like, but how relatable is this too? It's like, you a dope ass athlete and I'm sure you're a dope trainer. You can do all these things, but like for somebody who may want to train with you, how are they going to be able to see themselves in you? And I think there has to be, and on the flip side, I think we have to create, and this is just only my thoughts, but I think we have to create content that has a level of relatability and along with the creativity, along with a little fantasy, along, you got to put some thought in it, some thought. He has much thought and I'm not saying he doesn't, but like if we're talking about why the, why you asked the question around like, why do we give up, give so freely to them? Before OnlyFans, before social media, we were socialized to look at women in a galking manner. And I know some of it is biological. Speaking as a social scientist, I know some of it is biological, but then also it was hypersexualizing young men to continue to act that way more so. So it's like, I get to active on this and the privacy of my own home, it's a perfect storm. And so it's like, that's why systems will say, we'll fuck anything, okay? Well, that like is a reflection of I'll fuck anything. So I don't know if you've seen the documentary, The Social Dilemma. I've heard of it. I still haven't watched it. Yeah, yeah. Well, basically it talks about kind of the fallout of the social media generation. So from your perspective, from your expertise, explain social media and what is doing slash has done or will do to us if we continue to consume it blindly. Especially, and when I say us specific, Black folks. Yeah, sure. Is giving us, is giving us, is giving us new possibilities in how we can connect to the world, but also it's giving us, the dark side of it is it's giving us a false representation of what the world is or also can be. It goes both ways. So what I mean by that. Break that down, yeah. Growing up in the Midwest or in the South 40, 50 years ago, unless you had the means, you were only, and even before that, you were only connected to the immediate community that you grew up in. And maybe if you had relatives outside of that space and you went and visited them, the circle, the network of people. Unless you were in some type of business where you were forced to travel, your reach to connect to people was very limited. Social media has given us the opportunity to reach far beyond that scope and above. Like for example, I'm fortunate today to have this interview with you based off of what? Social media. You didn't know me from Tom Dicker here, you know what I'm saying? But as brothers we were able to connect and by happenstance, by God's intervention, there's no telling how long it would have took for us to meet without social media. So that's what I'm talking about. The other side of it is that when we were talking about earlier, social media unfortunately is very ego driven. It's an algorithm, it's a game which is driven by how much attention that you can get from other people and the things that are clip bait worthy. And so with the problem is that people are trying to do things and trying to position and post themselves and have moments that are clip bait worthy that get people to watch and follow them. That's the problem. We're not having genuine moments. We're struggling to have genuine moments where we're always concerned about capturing the genuine moment in the right way. And it ends up being fabricated. Right, right, right. But we want real love. Make it make sense. So where do you see this going? If we don't get a hold of it, if we don't learn how to manage social media, I think our ability to communicate could get worse. I think we could potentially completely objectify and objectify interactions and make them completely transactional. That's, and again, that's on the extreme in, there's statistics that challenge these thoughts that I'm conveying to you right now. And thank God they are. I think we are stepping into a world where you have to have a digital imprint in order to mean something in this world, to be valuable. I think that's the biggest danger that privacy and discretion no longer matters. And all things are not meant to be seen or shown for other people to gaze. And so I think in reference to black folks is that we are losing our ability to discern when it's appropriate to show ourselves and when it is not. And again, I don't wanna come off as like there's a respectability politics, but I think there is something to be said about preserving private moments for yourself and other people. Everything should not be for sale. Everything should not be for sale because that in which you are selling, you are lowering your value. You are lowering your value. That is the problem. We're putting a price on everything. That I think that's really the problem. We're putting a price on everything.