 from Seattle, Washington. It's theCUBE on the ground. Covering KubeCon 2016. Brought to you by the Linux Foundation and Red Hat. Here's your host, John Furrier. Okay, we are here in Seattle for a special On the Ground with theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, next because Matthew Logs, CEO of Weaveworks. Great to see you. Thanks, John, great to be here again. So what's going on? What's your take on, first of all, the button the way there, it says CNCF, it says vote today's election day. Tight race, cloud native. Cloud native computing foundation. I think you should vote for that. I am voting with my feet here. So we're here. So no, but this is important. This is a new foundation. It's not KubeCon, it's Kubernetes, is part of the cloud native. That's right, cloud native con, yeah. Yeah, cloud native con. So bigger picture, your take on this. What does it mean for people? What does this mean? Is it they both part of the same thing? What's your take on it? When Google first looked at different foundations, they wanted Kubernetes to be a true community and not just a Google thing, right? Because there's a Wikipedia page somewhere that's got a list of all of the canceled Google projects, right? And people are gonna ask, is Kubernetes just gonna be one of those other projects that just shows up on that list at some point? And so they wanted to establish a real community around that. And essentially what they saw when they looked at the various different foundations, because we're not sure on open source foundations that they might have noticed. Yeah, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one. But some are more effective than others, right? We just had the Apache Foundation and former president, Ron from Microsoft. They're very successful. That's right. So there's a formula. Yes. What's your take on that formula? But I think what's different about cloud native computing is it's a way of delivering that kind of agility that people are looking for and essentially doing computing in a new way, right? And it's more of an organizational shift down to smaller teams developing microservices. And so cloud native computing foundation was a way to build a community around that idea, which is bigger than just Kubernetes itself. Yeah. Give it some range too, right? Right. And make it part of a bigger picture. What's the critical success factors in your mind for this new organization? I think it's really, the big one is obviously end user adoption of the different projects, right? If we are adopting and enabling the incubating the right projects at the CNCF, we should see that reflected in adoption. And I think Kubernetes has some great statistics on the number of jobs mentioning Kubernetes skill sets as spiked, right? And there's now much higher, for example, than people talking about cloud foundry. As one of the statistics. Yeah, I think the line is straight up, by the way. Right. The slope is pretty good on Kubernetes jobs. I think that's a really great indicator of this. So the end user adoption is particularly important. And I'm very pleased as being on the board of the CNCF is that we have new levels for people to be able to contribute and end users to join and basically making the whole process easier. We've got some great end users currently in CNCF. So folks like Samsung, but also Goldman Sachs and others. So being able to build on that and add some more, I think is really important. Yeah, it's fun. You know, with the cubes been seven years and this is our seventh season doing theCUBE. And it's been so much fun. And I've learned a lot and met a lot of great people. But you've seen certain patterns and the innovation of the maturity. If people get dogmatic on certain things, they get stuck on the mud. Things were built a few years earlier. The pace of new shipping, new code is at an all time high. So dogma kills communities, right? So, you know, platform as a service might have been a certain approach, maybe look good on paper, try to get some traction, but that dog isn't hunting certain ways and smart people are shifting. And Kubernetes is to me, and I want to get your take on this, seems to be with containers, a nice way to take some of the heavy weights off some of these other parts of the stack. Do you agree? Is that something that people are talking about? Yeah, I mean, once you start out with containers, you eventually realize that, well, you need an automated way to manage this and, you know, schedule all these different containers and deal with your services. So Kubernetes, you know, fills an important gap there. And it's also based on a lot of hard one lessons out of Google and Borg. So that's all the better for that. I think also some of the newer projects are also very interesting. So things like FluentD, which we announced today. That's the logging? Yeah, the logging, it sort of solves the many to many logging problem, which is, you know, until you start with the building and application like this, where you've got lots of different components, they all log in slightly different ways. You need to get them to all these different destinations. And suddenly, you know, you realize that that's a problem you have with a cloud native application you didn't necessarily have before. So being able to have these things, and when we first, you know, it was a bit bumpy in the first couple of board meetings for the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, but we'd really wanted to- On the business side of technical selection side, of projects? No, it was more on the business side, but also what kind of foundation did we want to be? And we decided that we wanted more to be on the sort of rough consensus and running code, kind of mantra from the ITF in the early days. ITF, yep. Yeah, and not be, yeah, ITF not picking winners, right? So there isn't one stack. It's more, ITEF was an architectural thing too, right? They were very much on architecture. But you know, when you looked at protocols, the early protocols of the internet, you know, things like TCP and SMTP, if you didn't have a running implementation, you couldn't propose that. It wasn't like a standards body where you're pouring over specifications on paper. Yeah, that's absolutely, yeah, proof is in the pudding. More than ever now with Cloud. Yes, absolutely. What's interesting, I want to get your thoughts on is, is that if you look at all the markets, as Dave Vellante would say, the TAM or the total addressable market, are still there, big data, and what Hadoop was trying to do is a great example. Having some talk earlier in the hallways about, you know, what people tried to do with Hadoop was, you know, had the right eye and the right market, but technology shifts. So there's a lot of different markets out there that are disruptible. Yes. And they seem to be disrupted. So it seems like containers in Kubernetes gives a more power for the development speed. Yes. With all the benefits of that history of open source. Yes. Your thoughts on that idea? Yeah, I was in New York last week and we were talking to a variety of, you know, folks from different financial services firms, sat down with the CIO. And, you know, what he wants to do is, he wants to bring his organization to a new level of productivity. He needs them to go faster. And for the bank, it is about being able to move faster and deliver new capabilities, more complex capabilities sooner than their competitors can. And they only really, the way that they can see about doing that is through cloud native architecture. But what goes along with that is also bringing the organization along. And so tooling like this is a way, it's not just a way to get these things done, but it's a way to enable the organization and it gives them a model to work against. I feel like it's got a good, I think I feel good about this direction. I really do. I know we get all this time on what's going on with the foundation. What's going on with Weave? We've got a minute left on the schedule. We're working overtime. The lights are on. We're going to get together. We're going to go to the end. That's what theCUBE does. Whatever it takes to get the story. What's going on? What's going on with Weave? Tell us what's going on with the company? Status, just, what's happening? So one of the things that we're doing right now and one of these areas that's being disrupted that you talked about is monitoring, right? So Prometheus came into the Cloud Native Computing Foundation about a month ago. And so Weaveworks has developed essentially a scale-out version of Prometheus. So you can take this and scale it out and that becomes the core of a new offering that's going to be part of our Weave Cloud service. It's currently in beta. Go GA before the end of the year. But we needed to pick a time series database monitoring and as you know, lots of competition in that market. Lots of different things we could have chosen. Went with Prometheus because it really is designed for this highly dynamic Cloud Native environment, right? And it's much easier for us to take that and turn it into a tool that is really tuned up for the needs of Cloud Native applications. Yeah, and I think the disruption, I was talking to Dave Vellante on the phone this morning about some other market-facing stuff that we were riffing on. But the dynamics are different on the competitive strategy. How you enter a market now is completely different than the playbook, even five to 10 years ago. Five years back, I mean, maybe 10 years. It's certainly 10 years back. The playbook was simple. You got to get the beach head secure it now with the value creation tooling and the acceleration of software. You can really change the game on existing. You don't need a big bloated software. Lightweight wins. Yes, I think also open source wins. Yeah, open source is one. Yeah, I mean, it's winning. It's one and continues to win. Well, there's no way we could have done what we have done with this. They made this scale out service without it being open source. We're able to take something existed and build on it and essentially build a new iteration of that. And you can go see this on GitHub. It's all open source called Cortex and based on Prometheus. GitHub, we'll check it out on GitHub. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned open source. Real quick, my take, I'd love to get thoughts on it, is that open source, look at Red Hat, for example, as an example, that's my generation grew up with the Red Hat. All the open source, Gen 1. It's now all Tier 1. So open source has hit that Tier 1 software delivery paradigm. I think what cloud does takes it to a whole another level. So if it's already Tier 1, then it has to become Tier 1 Plus, which means it's got to get full scale and bigger growth. So my take is that, what does it go from Tier 1? It's okay, it got pure mere status. Now it has to come from the growth. So I think the action is going to be much higher. I'd love to get your thoughts on dynamics of how you see open source going even further. I think open source now is what customers expect. Even these big banks, they all expect that everything's going to be in open source. Even though they might want to buy a commercial product or buy a commercial version, that's the foundation. That is what they want to have. They don't want to be locked in. And especially now with cloud, they don't want to be locked into a particular cloud provider, they're very aware of where they ended up with the previous generation of technology and what the dependencies were. And so another reason for them to go after cloud native to give themselves more options. I think cloud native is going to be, I think the open source population, I think it's going to explode. I think there's going to be a new class, a developer. We haven't even seen yet. It's just with IoT and just all these new things happening, it just feels like a population explosion in terms of developer count. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, this year may be the year that CMOs have a bigger spend in software development than maybe IT departments do. Yeah, CMOs, that would be great. We'd like to see more digital transformation. Matthew Lodge, thanks so much for giving us the update on the foundation. And of course, we've worth appreciated. Okay, that's CUBE here in Seattle. I'm John Furrier, CUBE on the ground. Thanks for watching.