 All right, today's giveaway the flagship maps program maps and a ball it's the one that started it all great muscle building program Great for boosting your metabolism that program right now I'm giving away to for free to one of you lucky viewers All you gotta do is leave a comment in the first 24 hours that would drop this episode Subscribe to this channel and turn on your notifications if you do all those things and we like your comment We pick it we will notify you and get free access to maps and a ball one more thing before we get to this incredibly awesome Episode that will help you figure out why your diet is feeling you we have a huge promotion that'll be ending in five days Okay, so it was a January promotion. We're not gonna do this one for a long time. It's the biggest sale We've done ever in mine pump history. Here's what we did We put together three workout bundles each bundle is nine months of exercise programming Okay, so you get sets reps what exercises to do the tempo Video demos everything you need for nine months of incredible fitness now Here's how the bundles work the first one is for beginners The second one is for those you that are intermediate and the third one is for those of you that are advanced They're also discounted over 70% like I said, it's a massive sale and again It's ending in five days So if you're interested head over to maps January calm click on the bundle That's right for you or you could do all three you can go beginner to intermediate to advanced go there click on it and Sign up also if you just want to try one maps program You want to see what all the buzz is about you want to test it out just do one do maps and a ball It gets the like I said earlier. It's the foundational program It's the flagship program that one by itself is 50% off for the next five days So if you just want to do maps and a ball go to maps red calm and then use the code January 50 for that discount. All right. Here comes a show Jason, I'm glad you're here today because I want to talk about it's January, right? Or we're recording this in January. It's beginning of the year a lot of people starting diets a lot of people starting to workouts And I wanted to talk with you about kind of the main reasons why People's diets fail And then at the end I would like to for you to kind of go through and talk about Well stuff that you see that we maybe don't talk about or that we don't normally cover. Yeah, how's that sound? Absolutely. Let's do it. All right, because you're definitely the guru on this and I know you train a lot of coaches So in my experience as a trainer one of the main things or the first things that I see when somebody's diet fail This was a real common one was that people's the weekends They would screw up on the weekends and they would screw up so badly that it would completely ruin the you know Monday through Friday, right? This is a common one. I gave this is a tip not that long ago we were talking on a podcast and I said one of the most pivotal things for my own personal journey as far as you know goal setting and achieving and change body transforming right that I went through was actually simply just Making never scheduling my off days or recovery days on the weekend like Making sure that my diet and my training I had scheduled on the weekends and if I needed a rest day if I needed a day off of just eating Whatever I wanted it had to happen during the week and just simply making that simple rule I saw a huge change and I what I attributed it to is that the weekends are so easy to Sleep in and not be physical and active People are normally watching TV and snacking or you're going out to dinners or this these are the times when these things are more They're more tempting and the weekdays were on our reggie You know you get up at a certain time you get to work and you work out and you have like you're you have this tight schedule and so and it was like this Psychological game. I was playing with myself. It was I'm not telling myself. I can't have pizza ever I'm not telling myself that I can't have a day off I'm just gonna say it has to fall on the weekday and on the weekends I'm gonna make sure that I'm active and I'm dialed and I made a huge difference Can you explain why this happens Jason because I guarantee someone's listening right now and they're going well How is that possible if I'm good five days a week and I'm not good two days a week Why doesn't the five overpower the two right? I should still see progress. Well. Yeah, so first of all I want to acknowledge what you said I love the psychology Adam of like what you said because it's really funny I just did a we let Instagram decide what my diet would be for a day and somebody said eat nothing But Chick-fil-A and so that's what we went with and I felt like complete shit an hour after breakfast Yeah, we got to go through this We went chicken minis Bacon egg and cheese biscuit and hash browns for breakfast. So I let Instagram choose every meal How did you do it was it one of those games? Yeah, I just did a like, you know a question box Yeah, what should the diet be and they said Chick-fil-A for a day and I was like all right cool You order breakfast and the next one we did a bench press challenge You know for every rep short I was on on to 25 bench of 24 That was the number of my trainer set for every rep short. I was it was two nuggets So I only got 16 that day so I had 16 nuggets and like a large fry and then dinner We let the cashier order and so they gave me a number one Which wasn't too bad and then you felt like and I felt like garbage all day But I think that like the I knew I was gonna feel like shit and so you know the weeks for me Monday through Friday I have to be on point. I'm working. I'm talking to clients, you know If you know for the people out there if they're going in the office, whatever they're doing you you can't Forcibly feel like shit Whereas like on the weekend if you get up and you'll get a dozen donuts or you know You go get Chick-fil-A or whatever like it's it's cool like you feel like shit great You go take a nap on the couch. You keep feeling like shit. You keep eating more shit You know, so I think it's really I love that psychology I've actually never looked at it that way but to answer the question in terms of you know, whether it's Five days on or six days on and one day off or two days off, you know at the end of the day when we look at Calorie deficit or calorie surplus. We're not just looking daily. We're looking weekly And so we're always looking at seven-day averages. At least you should be You know, there's so much just propaganda out there Throw away the scale. Well, first of all, I think we need to stop demonizing the scale. It is it is data It's not the only piece of data that matters But you do need to know where you're trending not saying you have to trend down by any means But you should know where you're trending the data can actually tell us a lot of things Especially for people that are you know borderline Metabolically adapted sometimes you see weight go down after significant overfeedings and that's actually good data as well So I want to get away from the notion that you should just throw away the scale But when we are looking at the scale, we should be looking at how are things changing over seven days You know water intake is gonna fluctuate every day Electrolate intake so sodium intake is gonna fluctuate every day. You're not gonna hit the exact same nutrients You're gonna be exact same foods every single day So we're looking for trends and as long as things are trending the right direction over time That's great, but you know people see on by Friday morning. They're like, oh, I'm down three pounds for the week Let's go have our cheat meal and and I think that's also part and parcel to the industry promoting cheat meals or free meals Discussing something as if it's completely contrary to your plan. I I don't look at you know Anything that I eat is contrary to my plan You know if I want to go and you know I live in like the DC area and I love Georgetown cupcakes If I want a Georgetown cupcake like that's just part of what I want to have like maybe I'll have one or two per Week they're only like 300 calories. It's not a big deal. I don't I don't look at it Like oh my god, I just completely went off my plan So I think that people are like all right. Well, I did my diet now I'm going off my diet and let me tell you a Reasonably set up diet should only be 500 to 700 calorie deficit at most right and so when you think about one cheat meal Let's just think about something simple like pizza. You're probably going over your caloric allotment by two three thousand Yeah, now let's tack some alcohol on now. Let's tack on, you know, whatever dessert you have We're talking about three to four thousand calories over What you should be in one day and and you very easily erases well It's a completely erases the other six days if the other six days were at 500 calories You were only in a 3,000 calorie deficit for six days. It's very easy to do that You know, we're super easy You know where this all came together full circle for me was when the the introduction of the body bug Which was like, you know, basically one of those trackers, right? So 24-hour fitness thing Yeah, the rid of one of the original ones that came out and it was it was fairly accurate to your metabolism and What I found was exactly what you just said not only did I go over because I kind of knew obviously if I knew if I crushed Four to six pieces of pizza, right and had another bet, you know, fast food meal or what like that I knew I was over but what I also didn't take into consideration was oh I slept in an hour and a half and then the first hour of my day I watched football and then you know, I was down dude My movement was fifty percent of what it was during the week So not only did I overeat by about a thousand count or what I thought was only overeating by about a thousand calories Because I'm adding that pizza or whatever that other dinner, but I also reduced my movement So those one or two days on the weekend, even if I was perfect Monday through Friday Training hard consistent perfect never missing the diet Just that one or two days was enough to counter all that great work Yeah, so just to put it plainly To lose weight you have to consume less calories and you burn That's what you're referring to when you talk about a calorie deficit So if Monday through Friday, you're at a 500 calorie deficit. That's 2500 calories of a deficit You go into Saturday you go into Sunday and on both days. Let's say you eat 1500 calories over What you burn, which is really easy very easy to do easy now You're 3000 calories over on Saturday and Sunday But you're at a 2500 calorie deficit Monday through Friday at the end of the week You're actually 500 calories over in a surplus in a surplus in other words You're gaining weight even though Monday through Friday you felt like you were doing so good and Saturday Sunday You felt like you just went off a little bit It it all breaks down and you're using an extreme example And I think what really happens where people get stuck is it isn't that extreme, but it's enough, right? It's like I only ate a couple slices. Yeah, well, then you also didn't move I think in an ideal world you're perfect Monday through Friday But how many people are actually perfect? Yeah, Monday through Friday, right those bites and those licks like they add up as as much as that seems like minutia If you're quote-unquote perfect Monday through Friday, we know, okay There's probably a few liquid calories and there's probably a few extra bites of something in there And then you're like, oh, I was perfect then and go into the weekend where you do go into a surplus Now you're in a really big surplus and you all I mean Physiology says you should be gaining weight. It's your body's not working against you It's not the diet that's not working And I think that I'm actually excited to do this podcast because so many people blame the diet And and there's so much There's so much buzz around in diet culture around how diets don't work And it's it's really sexy to be a guru in the space right now and say, oh well diets don't work and you shouldn't diet And I'm like no actually like assuming all things normal like in physiology diets do work If you're in a calorie deficit, they work very well You just can't go out on the weekends and eat like a fucking ass right and into what you were saying, Adam Let's say that it's a small difference. Well now for the whole week. You're at a 100 calorie deficit Maybe yes now you're months into your diet and you lost two pounds right on the scale and you're like, okay This is this just isn't worth it. All right, so this next one. I'll never forget When this really hit me I'll never forget so back in the day So I'm going to date myself a little bit But we didn't have like I couldn't go on the internet look things up We had like the calorie king book or whatever and you had to flip through Yeah, and look things up or whatever and remember I would see like, you know medium Banana and they'd be like, okay, cool. I'll get a regular banana and eat that You know medium sized apple. Oh, yeah, I'll you know, no big deal and then one day I said, you know It's not really working like what's going on like I notice my body fat isn't really changing much And I looked up the weight of a medium banana I weighed the banana that I got and apparently I was getting these super extra large bananas That were massive and then I realized I was I was guessing and estimating wrong And I know a lot of people do this if I remember I would have clients come to me and say Oh, yeah, I have a tablespoon of peanut butter Show me what a tablespoon looks like and it's like no that's like a shovel That's three tablespoons of peanut butter. I have the best story for you with it. I was uh I won't say who I was working with the wwe athlete and she was preparing for the cover of the espn body issue Where you have to be naked and and I remember like we got started and I was like, all right Like you're tracking your food, right? And she's like, well, no, I'm on the road all the time And I'm like, would you take a scale and she said no and I was like, okay I'm gonna send you one and so her food log that she had sent me It said like three ounces of chicken at three of the meals throughout the day And I had sent her this like pocket scale and she goes, holy shit. She's like, I measured my food yesterday And I was like, well, how much were you eating nine ounces? Holy shit, like we're talking 18 extra ounces per day at about seven grams of protein Right per ounce of chicken. We're talking 142 grams extra of protein But we're also talking 18 to 20 extra grams of fat. We're literally talking 900 almost a thousand She's in a surplus and she's wondering why she's not losing and you know, obviously lots of protein She's wondering why she's bloated and I'm like, well, here's the reason. So I mean, it was one of the easiest switches It's mind-blowing to me too. How many people say, well, it's tedious I mean, do you still I don't weigh and measure my food that much because I've been doing it Literally for you know, I think the first what I used to tell clients at first you have to do it So you you know what your reference point is. It's a learning tool. It's like the educational piece Yeah, like most people have no idea when they see three ounces of chicken If they guess what three ounces of chicken in it's way more And by the way, the chicken breasts you get at the store are like eight ounces nine ounces ten ounces, you know Well, I remember this reminds me too of another situation where I started to really piece this together So, you know, we and this is so silly, right? We used to have this idea This is trainers with us trainers talking when I ate a food like a sweet potato Um, I really didn't count it or I just low ball estimate because it's a sweet potato It's low glycemic. It's not very many calories. It's healthy. Yeah, it's healthy Right. And when I would look it up in the book, like, you know, a medium sweet potato would only be like 125 calories So I'll be like, oh, I'm not with you. I'll never forget the first time I weighed the sweet potato that I thought was a medium sweet potato And it was literally like four of them And that's what I was and then I was and I was not counting that it was like I was just chalking that up as a healthy food that was probably only 100 something calories That was really like 600 calories that I wasn't even attributing to the diet, right? So I think that And I know that here I was a trainer. I I understood this stuff and I still made mistakes like that Which is why I would I would make all my clients track at the beginning And and the goal I would tell them is that listen This is not I don't want you to be tracking for the rest of your life The goal is that you get to a place where you can eyeball a piece of chicken And get pretty close to what that is or eyeball a sweet potato I know because you've already weighed it four or five times before And you've seen what a big one a small one in the middle looks like and you've tracked it enough times That now you have a pretty good idea when you're when you're close there and I think Once you're there, I don't I don't think it's necessary to weigh it, but the beginning is I think so necessary Yeah, when they do studies on this there's many studies on this where people will estimate the caloric intake They're like 30 40 50 off every single time now Here's what I think is interesting If we were to make that statement today and most people hear it the popular dietary culture is going to say They're they're underestimating because everybody wants to talk about everyone in the world under eats I actually disagree. I think that 90 percent of people would overestimate Right, like they would be eating more than they're reporting not eating less Well, uh, the the fact that obesity is at where it's at would prove that you're right Our our dietary world like our our small little fitness world is such a microcosm of what actually exists in the world And just because in the fitness world, we see such a A metabolic adaptation and phenomenon going on right now and a lot of hpa access issues We think well, that's what's running rampant in the world But you know when mrs. Jones comes to you and she's 40 years old and she's 100 pounds overweight We we probably can't look at her and be like and make these assumptions that hey, you know what you're you're under Yeah, one of the things I like about you jason is you you you work with real people and your coaches work with real people So that's what you're constantly communicating. Yeah with this one that like the guessing I remember You know another one that screwed me up was olive oil I know that's you know, funny because I'm Italian But I would put olive oil on stuff and I'd calculate two tablespoons Oh two tablespoons olive oil and then one day actually measured it out. I'm like, dude, it's like half a cup Same just was like eating and snacking on like peanuts and walnuts nuts will get you real quick So high calorie once you really start adding up each one and I think this also ties back into, you know Quality-based diets in general, you know, I think when I first came into when I first Was big in like the crossfit space right back in 2012 I always said I was the most hated nutritionist in crossfit back then But uh, you know, I used to say there was two types of paleo dieters in crossfit there was the kind that They they would say well almond butters paleo and they would eat the whole jar of of almond butter Because they're like, well, it's paleo and paleo didn't have quantity parameters, right? You could just as long as it was paleo you could eat as much as you wanted it I mean, listen, I understand almond butter doesn't spike your insulin very much But if you're 100 pounds overweight and you're eating 5 000 calories a day from almond butter You're not losing weight, right? But at the same token you got these people that are doing insane exercise And they're literally they're like, well, you know paleo i'm eating salmon and broccoli And it's like, okay Now you're eating 900 calories and you're trying to train like somebody that is You know, like you're trying to train three times a day like somebody that's competing at the crossfit games That's not sufficient either. So I don't you know, it's not even about like overestimating all the time Sometimes it's about like you could be eating all the healthy foods in the world But to some degree if we want to act with precision, whether it's, you know, performance goals, aesthetics goals, even longevity based goals We have to understand to some degree quantity. It's it's non-negotiable It's it continues to show up in studies Like I mean, yes, the types of foods matter relative to like your insulin index and how you feel on cravings also But at the end of the day, if you're eating too many calories, it doesn't matter It just doesn't matter. Well you talking about paleo also leads to our next point Which is about just diet culture in general, right? And I just think that That's where we've gone wrong is I mean, how many times this as coaches and trainers have you guys got this Where someone hires you and they're like, hey, my friend followed the paleo or followed the ketogenic diet And I too want to follow that and it's like worse all diets fail They all fail and even when they are temporarily successful, they fail long term I just I hate this idea of Trying to demonize other ways of eating and say that your way is superior than another way While you're also eliminating these foods that realistically you're going to want to have some time in your life again And what you're referring to is just starting off completely unsustainably. Hey, I'm going to start on this health and fitness journey I'm going to eliminate all carbohydrates or I'm going to eliminate all foods except for meat And it's like, okay, you're not you didn't just take a step First of all, any step is difficult and challenging when you talk about nutrition You you took 15 steps you went real extreme and it's just not sustainable. It's an unsustainable approach Right. Well, okay. Let's let's put it in a completely different perspective If I asked you today, like you live a pretty good life, right? How old are you? 42 42, right? So you live a pretty good life. You've created success in your life That that does not immediately create an assumption that you've never failed, right? Like like you've had a lot of things in your life that you've fucked up So right out of the gate, we're we're basically saying there's good and there's bad There's right and there's wrong and that your ultimate success is going to be defined by whether you only do good But if you do bad, you're completely fucked up and you're not going to achieve your result Well, we can all sit in this room and we've all achieved great things in our lives But we've all fucked up a lot So why are we telling dieters that if they do something bad or they do something wrong That that's not going to get them where they want to be Like I believe that whatever result you do or don't create is really just a collection of all of the things that you do Some are going to be in line with your goals and some aren't going to be in line with your goals And if we can start looking at a journey that is much longer in duration and we can start seeing hey listen like no You know what you had pizza last night like you went over your calories You're probably not going to make as much progress in the next three days Who the fuck cares about three days, right? Because if you're still going to hit your target in 16 weeks or 20 weeks or 24 weeks Why does what happens the next three days matter? And I think that you know, we talk about keto carnivore Whatever extreme diets we want to go on They're all creating these labels for us that immediately set us up for a failure They're they're driving home that failure. You have one car and you totally failed. You're no longer fucked. Yeah Yeah, so I think that's from a you know mindset I think is the hardest thing people have when it comes to diet anyway They they have already conditioned themselves to the fact that their failures when it comes to diet Like most overweight people have attempted. I think the stat says something like four plus diets, right? And that means they failed four plus diets So subconsciously they're already labeling themselves as a failure And so I think if you as a coach or you as a provider go in and you allow them to now Identify with all the things that they failed at before you're actually also doing them a disservice You're you're immediately transposing their mindset from one of optimism to one of failure You're taking them back to a place that they have labeled in their life as failure And you're allowing them to operate from there and I think that that is the worst thing you can do And that's that's not a knock on keto or carnivore any of those things I really you know to open up another can of worms would just say none of the diets are quote-unquote bad They're all horribly misapplied like keto as a diet. There's some great benefits to go on keto There's there's some great benefits to carb cycling like some of my wwe athletes that are getting ready for wrestlemania right now They're all carb cycling because guess what they got to look really good on tv twice a week And but they also still got to be losing body fat, right when I train an MMA fighter for a fight They still have to perform during camp And and but they still need to be losing weight and the fastest way to do that is a carb cycle So there's no bad diets, but there's horrible application and application as we know is what a chief success Well, especially when you're talking about the general population, right when you talk about very specific Conditions, right? There's obviously diets that that makes sense But I I think we try to tend that or steer the conversation towards the general population that make the mistake of following these diets that are Mainly for more specific people. I think that were they were the application is is totally unsustainable It's an unsustainable way to start and so like you said Jason you're setting yourself up for a near future failure Almost guaranteed. It's really funny because I mean what we're we're three things in seven seven reasons people are failing and I think so much of this has Obviously the diet or has to take some responsibility at the end of the day like you over consume food. That's on you You undertake a diet actively and that's on you But look what we as an industry are doing like, you know, we're when we talk about eating Whatever you want on saturday and sunday. Well, how's that been labeled cheat meals? I mean dude go all the way back to i'm gonna date myself bill phillips body for life Right. What was body for life predicated on, you know, what was one massive eas sales pitch But it was like six days of dieting and then your seventh day free You know go all the way back to the days of like scott able and and he had his cycle diet And that was a big proponent for him, you know, six days on your diet and seventh day eat whatever the hell you want Um, you know, here we are creating diets putting labels on them and and to be fair I understand the marketing side of this. We've done a podcast on the marketing of fitness It's not sexy to go to an overweight person and say, well, just make some sustainable changes Like they're like, what do you mean? That would that doesn't sell products No, that doesn't sell product It also doesn't create excitement It doesn't necessarily create that initial change to get somebody moving forward Which is really what we have to capture and I think that I think the best coaches in the world are the ones that can Find that Find that middle ground. How do you get somebody really excited about moving forward? But how do you do so without any of the crap that we're talking about? Well, I have another kind of hack that I I came into right just kind of trial and error with clients Again messing with the the psychology of how the human brain works, right? I told you the the weekend one well another one that I would do when talking about diets Which shook clients up always because you get a lady who comes in and she's got to lose 50 pounds And you know, she's you know ready. She's ready for me to tell her. All right. Can't have this This is what we're going to follow like we're cutting back on this And I actually would spend no time doing that at all All I would want to do is kind of get an idea of what she currently is doing Which would if it meant she was eating McDonald's and an ice cream and whatever I want to see everything that you're doing and then instead of telling her she can't have any of those things I would actually add to her diet. I would look for an area Whether it be a lack of good lean protein or healthy fats or not enough greens And I would look at the diet and not tell her she can't have any of those things that she was eating That I know aren't great for her and I'd say listen This is all I want you to do for now. We are going to have Two salads every day in addition to what you're doing. So don't don't worry about everything else you're doing Just make sure you you add a salad here and you add a salad there Or hey, I want you to make sure that you get an extra chicken breast Every single day in your diet because we're not getting enough lean protein and I would pick One or two things I know that would improve her eating and what I knew would happen is She without even knowing it would naturally start to weed out some of those things because and she wasn't focused on Oh, my coach said I can't have pizza. I can't have those things anymore She was just focused on oh, I want to make sure I get those two things that adam said I want to get every day and then what would naturally happen She would already start to make these better choices and again It's just messing with that psychology of telling people that they can't do something The protein part is a big one adam Um, I we had a lot of clients who just I mean they wouldn't they would eat essential protein But they wouldn't eat uh enough protein to really facilitate lean body mass gains and to help with satiety And so having people eat adequate protein sometimes I'll just tell people Let's just get make sure you hit your protein targets And then very naturally their appetite would drop because it's very satiating You'd see better lean body mass better metabolism Effects and the cool thing is now we have studies that support this we now show that Equal calorie diets higher protein ones tend to outperform. Yeah, actually I mean there's a study we reference all the time at nci You know because people are like well if we set up their protein and their calories How do we know what carbs and fats to give them? And obviously there's guidelines, but the studies are pretty clear when it comes to body composition Assuming all things are normal If you've equated your calories properly if you've accounted or if you've allocated enough dietary protein It shouldn't matter how much carbs and fats you take in So that being said a lot of people that are just getting into the dietary space Or a lot of coaches when you're lost with the client If you can get them to hit their calories and you can get them to hit their protein And not focus on anything else and you say hey, you just eat whatever else you want These are the two numbers that matter you will hit your goals now Again, that's that's scientific research I think sometimes empirical data does come into play And I think that you know things like stress profiles and dietary histories can certainly come into play But I agree. I think that and I don't mean this to uh to be sexist in any way But I think females in general struggle to hit their protein a little bit more than guys do But you know, I guess a lot of people would be surprised how much guys have a hard time Hitting their protein as well, but It's it's very difficult to do and you know, when you when you under eat protein and you overeat carbohydrates We know that's going to signal insulin response. We know high levels of circulating insulin That's going to lead to a big hunger response. Um, and so now we wonder well, why are we hungry when we're dieting? Well, you don't have to always be hungry if you're in an appropriate calorie deficit If your macros were set up appropriately Um, but also, you know, we're talking about protein I mean, I think back to like when I very first got into the fitness industry Protein was protein. Well, we're talking lean proteins. Yeah, high quality proteins You know, it doesn't mean that every time you sit down to to eat your food You're eating like salmon or you're certainly not doing things like fried fried proteins, right like fried chicken or or things like that Um, thanks mom to you know, thanks to my mom because the very first time, you know, when I got into fitness at all She's like, well chicken tenders are a protein source So I was like, you know, my mom is the the biggest, uh, enabler in the world But I love her to death for it. She's just trying to you know, you guys know my background I was the anorexic. She was just trying to get me to eat, but um, you know, a lot of people they do though, man Like they'll sit down and you know, bacon becomes the the protein source, right? I made this mistake I made this mistake as a trainer, you know, sal talked about the calorie king book So I was like in my second year of being a trainer when I really started to get into like tracking my food Right and I was using calorie king and up until that point. My choice of fast food was kfc Yeah, and it was kfc for that reason. I thought oh, it's a source of protein My protein and I just assumed that it actually was probably better for me until I looked at like the actual macro profile I'm like, I'm better off having a big mac at McDonald's than having fried chicken Well, dude, how crazy is it? I'm pretty sure this is accurate. I don't want to get it wrong So I'm gonna go with the caveat that I think this is the truth, but um, when you go to chipotle I've been told that the steak is actually leaner than the chicken. I guess they use some dark meat chicken Oh So like I could I could be wrong on that like don't hold me to I think you're right Yeah, I think you're right. Right. Like the steak is actually leaner. I think when they had the carne asada, it was the leanest So and I think a lot of people they underestimate that they're like, oh, I'll go somewhere and I'll order chicken Or doing what you did, you know, they eat out. They get their meals out. Well, let's be honest, you know People don't give a shit about like your your calories or your macros when you're eating out They want it to taste good. So now there's oils now. There's calorie, you know, there's uh spices and sauces with calories So, you know, I think you have to be careful that the protein we got to get adequate protein But we can't be getting adequate protein with excessive amounts of calories either. So I actually see this on both sides Well, since you brought that up I feel like we should talk about this too because this was another mistake that um, I'd see clients make and I made myself which is So you go to and I use chipotle as an example actually when I teach this because I vividly remember Uh, going to chipotle on certain days of the week and for a while There's a trainer I eat there like every day, right? It was because I could get all this protein and it was quick and easy And uh, when steve worked on tuesdays, uh, my double chicken scoops It looked so different than when rachel worked on wednesdays and thursdays And when you go to the website and you look up what the breakdown is I mean, they base it off of this like standard Three-ounce scoop or whatever nobody does that nobody does and so, you know, I'm getting these and you gotta understand That's just I'm just talking about the protein but that happens with the black beans and the rice and the guacamole And the everything else that's going in there And so when you go to these these sites these things are not heavily policed or regulated So it's supposed to give you a general idea of what you're getting But you're not factoring in when steve is heavy-handed and give you an extra Unless you're going to a place that's actually franchised where the those bottom line margins matter That's how you know like when you go to mose or chipotle mose is franchised So those owners are policing that chip chipotle is corporate and they're like, uh, we don't give a fuck Right like and then you got to pull the alex more mosey pause double So you go in there and you just ask for single chicken and they you know, the way they over scoop you a little And you're like, oh wait, I want to double and then they give you another big-ass scoop Because if they give you half scoop then you're like, no, no, I said double not one and a half Yeah, right. So they got to like load you the fuck up, but that's for my god I was trying to get gains not lose that man. Another big challenge is just not focusing at all on the behavior piece of nutrition So I'll give you a good example of this, right? So I would work with clients and they would do really well And but maybe they had a snack in the in the in their cupboard that maybe their kid ate for lunch or whatever But it was something that was like a trigger food for them and they're like it's so hard So like the food is in my cupboard. It's there. I get stressed out. I get bored I keep you know eating handfuls of it. I don't have the discipline I don't have the, you know, I just can't say no to it. And so I would say, okay, look, here's the deal This is good because you're aware of a behavior that you have. Yeah So let's do this instead instead don't have that food in the house But give yourself permission to eat it You just have to drive the grocery store to get it And it would just create a barrier between them and the food and some space So they could have some awareness between themselves and the impulse and that's just a simple example of working with your behaviors another one would be like, um, you know, I I noticed that when I eat my lunch, I like to be on my phone and when I'm on my phone and distracted I eat more than I should yeah, so another behavior strategy would be you can eat just make sure you're not distracted Don't watch tv. Don't be on your phone. But ignoring the behavior piece. I think it's such a big mistake You know, I think this is my this is my favorite one, man. I think When when I wrote the nci manual, we talked a lot about biofeedback, which effectively is physiology, right? It's you know, your hunger response your mood your energy your focus your sex drive Your sleep things like that and I always used to live by the quote that the physical follows the physiology Um, and so it was like if we were trying to create physical change It always came down to physiological like like creating physiological change and physiological change usually came More about your habits and more about like your lifestyle and and the things that you were doing and you know People would tell me all the time. Well, well, I have really crappy sleep Well, I'm not going to dive into your overall macros about poor sleep But I do recognize that if you're not sleeping. Well, it's probably difficult to lose body fat And as a coach, I want to address your sleep first. And so it's like, well, what are you doing before bed? Well, I have my last meal like five minutes before I get into bed. Oh, well, does that make you feel like shit? Yeah, you know, I kind of lay there for an hour and digesting it and it's like Cool, can we try that like three hours earlier? And they're like, yeah, we could they do it They sleep great for a few nights. Oh my gosh, the scale starts to come down Boom, they're bought in right and so there's all these things that you know, we've again as diet culture We've we've allowed people to think that It's only what you eat and it's only the total amount of what you eat And it has nothing to do with anything else and and like you said, you know, hey, you could have this food But your behavior has to go the extra mile to actually get it, right? You literally didn't change the habit at all You just inserted the barrier. I think that's great you know on the other side of that is I think people put food on an island and and they remove it from all of the other behaviors in their life They're like, well, I can still stay a super stressed out, you know person. I can still not sleep. I can still Over-exercise I can still do all of the negative things I do as long as I just change my food Right, and I don't think that works in any way. I mean Shit, I would rather start somebody if if they're over exercising if they're under recovering I would almost say hey Let's fix those things first before we even address the food because I would I would argue They'll start making better choices by proxy of simply feeling better You're right over training lots of stress lack of sleep If you if you think it's difficult to to cut calories and not eat foods That are your trigger foods or foods that you crave if you think that's hard Normally you add stress lack of sleep to that. It's exponentially more challenging You are your body is literally craving Things that you're going to use as I don't know for lack of a better term medications Always to self medicate yourself. So I'm tired and I'm stressed. I want the food that makes me feel better You might not be thinking this consciously. This is subconscious But my brain and my body is like I want the food that makes me feel good right now I want the serotonin bump. I want the dopamine bump. So it's more challenging to say no to the potato chips It's more challenging to say no to the pizza because this is by the way when your inhibitions quote unquote inhibitions are down Which when you're tired and stressed they definitely are If you've ever gone out on a night drinking and then you go get a meal afterwards You know the food that you choose after you drink is definitely not the kind of food that you choose when you're sober And that's kind of similar to what happens I love that you guys are talking about this right now because there's there's kind of two Two camps in the science-based community here, right? You've got the kind of wellness people that are probably talking speaking towards the behavior a little bit And they they tend to demonize cortisol and insulin and freak people out And then you have the other side like our friends like lane that will always be like touting the Law of thermodynamics calories in calories out. That's all that matters It doesn't matter if you didn't sleep last night if you ate the 500 calories under your diet You'd be fine. So that's all that matters But you're missing something with that without without explaining what you're talking about and I remember when this when this came together for me and Is after many times of fucking up many times of being on a diet And then all of a sudden like having this crazy like craving of wanting bad food that I was like man Why would it and I shouldn't say bad because it's you know, all food is equal, right? So all just calories, right? But craving foods that were like fast food like pizza hyper palatable Yes hyper palatable foods right things that we're going to give me that serotonin dump And I started to make this connection like holy shit Anytime I would have like a really long day or stressful or really poor sleep all night long the next day This is where I would fall off the diet and I started to make this connection I'm like, oh, this is what everyone's talking about when you talk about cortisol and insulin and that being off And then wanting to crave that and this is why it flies right in the face of people that always All they talk about is law of the thermodynamics and its calories and calories out because you're missing the behavior component And how important it is to discuss that because people aren't thinking about that You know, no one's thinking like as soon as they have a bad night's sleep They're not like, oh, I better be on the defense today because today I'm going to want fast food and some of that They just fall into the trap. Well, there's there's a whole other behavior component that I think goes into this too You know, we were talking earlier about how dietary culture has talked about, you know, cheat meals or cheat days um I I mentioned, uh, you know the cycle diet that I did at like one point in my life and For anybody that's not familiar you basically live in a pretty extreme calorie deficit for six days in the seventh day You can literally eat whatever you want. You're actually instructed to eat as many calories as possible I think I think my days would start with like Dunkin Donuts on the way to iHop and then I would like wash it down in the Frappuccino That was my that was my morning Um, and and it sounds great in theory, right? It's like all your and I mean, dude I was ripped to the I was ripped to the nines like I walked around with like shredded glutes Like that's that's how and I mean terrible for hormone profile But I was lean all the time and I could eat whatever I wanted the seventh day except it also created a food obsession And so I stopped measuring food in normal quantities I stopped measuring hyper palatable foods in normal quantities And so like back then if you told me I could have pizza Well, I had to have it on sundae and that meant I wasn't having a slice of pizza I was having a pie of pizza So I don't measure pizza by the by the slice anymore I measure it by the pie to this day at 37 years old if you put pizza in front of me I have a very difficult time having one slice. And so we look at people's behaviors I don't know what they've been conditioned to growing up. You you might have been in a family that You eat a whole pizza. You you're told clean your fucking plate, right? Like how many of us grew growing up in this generation? We were told you clean your plate before you get up for the dinner Bro, I have another one that that is I've got another one that it highlights this that it took me years I was in my 30s when I started to piece this together So I grew up in a home where there was on the oldest of four sometimes five right when my step brother was there We didn't have a lot of money We my mom would go grocery shopping once a month at the beginning of the month And she always came home with maybe there was like one box of Twinkies or one thing of ice cream And when you're sharing with five kids, it's first come first serve So I would always I would never have a regular serving of anything I would eat as much as I could because I knew that if I didn't My other siblings would eat the rest of it before I could ever come back for a second helping That I my whole life as a kid. I ate this way that never ended as an adult I still have those even though I hit you today Yeah, even though I could have five gallons of ice cream in my freezer and I can afford all the ice cream I want but because I had trained myself that way subconsciously I still had these behaviors of when I would sit down I would gorge on something and that was something that was rooted all the way back in childhood And how many of your clients think this way and don't even realize it. Yeah, those associations are very very powerful I mean, I mean, you know fast food place at McDonald's knows this they have a kids play area and fun stuff to do in there And you create associations This is why you may have a childhood food That brings you comfort if this has ever happened to you and you introduced your friend and they're like that's gross And you're like, no, it's not it's really good Not realizing it probably is gross But you have this association with you know, who knows, you know chef boy rd's, you know Spaghetti roni or whatever it is because you ate that when you were sick as a kid These are all behavior things that need to be addressed And then to your example about you know, not having any food six days a week and then eating whatever you wanted That's the equivalent of somebody like I'm not gonna have instead of having a glass of wine every night I'm gonna have seven glasses of wine on saturday. Like you can see the dysfunction that clearly horrible speaking of which Another mistake I think people make is they don't count the calories that they drink juice sodas alcohol It's because it's liquid. It doesn't really count Um people I've had people very easily consume a thousand calories in a day worth of drink Worth of things that they don't chew. They just wash down their food. Yeah I mean, I spent half my time and and this isn't to demonize the south I spent half my time in south carolina and just sweet tea everywhere That's real sweet. Yeah, like that's real sweet tea made with a ton of sugar And I look around and I'm like, you know, and people are ordering, you know Go buy a chick-fil-a. Someone's got a grilled chicken sandwich, right? They got a fruit cup And it's like, what are you drinking? Sweet tea It's like you're choosing really healthy things and then you're gonna wash it down with about a thousand calories in a cup Which is just mind blowing to me You know, I think that we get so much demonization of alcohol And I think people are far more aware of alcohol than anything else, you know, you have an alcohol beverage You know in no way does that align with what you're trying to do, right? Right, like I think every dieter knows that but at the same token we talk about juice We talk about gatorade. We talk about these these drinks that are marketed as healthy. We talk about Pre-workout drinks that sometimes have extra carbohydrates. We talk about post-workout protein drinks I can't tell you the number of times when I used to prescribe post-workout carbohydrate Like high molecular weight carbs for high-intensity athletics and they would be like, do I count that towards my carbs? Like, yeah It's fucking calories of course you count it, right? And it's like it's it's still a carbohydrate intake I don't care if it's powder form and you know people like oh, I'd rather eat my carbs and it's like well great You probably should and for most dieters you probably should aim to but those still matter and we can't omit those Yeah, and in one strategy we you know that adam used to talk about a lot I think is brilliant is you you give someone a water goal like drink a gallon of water day Not necessarily because there's magic in drinking a gallon of water But rather if you're trying to drink a gallon of water, you're not going to be drinking sodas and juices and stuff like that Yeah, if you're drinking carbonated things you're full right and you know if you're drinking too much coffee Sometimes that shuts off your your desire your thirst right your desire for more water And so yeah, you start the day with water you you stay with water and A lot of people that will shut off. I mean we're talking three four five hundred calories a day in some in some cases Well, it goes back to I mean all three of the things that I've added to this conversation Are the are these things that I've picked up over years of training clients And it's this it's the psychological game that I'm playing with them, right? You know, I've got a I've got a client who is you know has to have their They tell me I can't cut into my wine. I have my wine every night. Okay, you know Oh, I love my sodas or oh, I have my weekend Sunday fun day with the girl like they have all these rules They're not going to cut this out. They're telling me and I'm like, okay, that's fine All I want you to do is hit your gallon of water than every day And what ends up happening is that they're so focused on Achieving that that they don't have time or room to fit those other things in and then before you know it You've eliminated something out of their diet that you wanted to eliminate other diet without telling them they can't And along those lines you ever want to get a office worker to increase the amount of steps that they take every day Have them drinking on the water today I swear to god, yeah, they'll get up and go to the bathroom Oh, yeah, there's steps to go to the room All right, so now here we're at the point now where I want to really tap into your expertise and experience again For people who don't know you you own you founded NCI you train and coach coaches on how to be effective And there's gonna be people listening to this right now who we just went through six Reasons why they're it's their diets failing. It's not working for them, but there may be people listening We're like, I don't do any of those things. I'm I'm not doing any of those things It's still not working for me. So now I want to hear from you like what could possibly be going wrong Yeah, you know, I think this is adam you kind of alluded to it earlier This is it's almost becoming a controversial topic because people are saying, you know Law of thermodynamics if you're in a 500 calorie deficit, you're gonna lose weight and I think to some degree that's true, but I think that you know As with all things diet culture some is good more is not better And so metabolic adaptation got really popular in the last decade Now you got people trying to say, oh, no one's metabolically adapted like no very clearly adaptive thermogenesis is a thing And I would argue if you're consuming Under 18 or 1600 calories and you're not losing weight. There's a good chance you are experiencing some form of metabolic Let me pause there for a second when you talk about metabolic adaptation What you're talking about is somebody's metabolism Changing because of the way that they're eating doing what you told it to do In other words, in this example, you're eating 1600 calories a day You are losing weight and then the way the reason why it stopped working is because your metabolism went from burning 2000 calories To now burning 1600 calories. So now the 1600 calories they're eating isn't a deficit It's effectively maintenance, but here's here's the crazy part. That's supposed to happen Right. I think anybody that's like, oh my god, metabolic adaptations are a bad thing. No, they're very normal As a human being metabolic adaptations are great. They're normal. They're supposed to happen, right? You put yourself in a deficit. You're supposed to get hungry You put yourself in a deficit. Your affinity for meat will come down Over time you stay in a deficit. Your strength will likely come down. That's normal. We expect that The state of being adapted, right decreasing metabolic rate from 2000 to 1600 Like you said, well, that should try to be avoided and so the question then becomes how do we actually avoid that? And if you're a dieter that's experiencing issues with it, how do we fix that? And so One of the principles that we introduced with nci like five years ago was what we call nutritional periodization And when I sat down I started looking at high level athletes because that's what I was working with at the time and I you know, it was uh everything from nfl to you know, any regular sport and we understand that as a strength coach You periodize their training, right? So like you can't just work out hard all the time. You have to Well, for instance, like so we're in the nfl playoffs right now Do you think those guys are going max effort in the gym on friday? No, no, no, it's all injury prevention. It's all injury prevention It's all movement mobility. It's it's movement restoration from how fucked up they were at the game, right? And so now what are they going to do immediately once the season's over? Are they going to go in and immediately go balls to the wall like the week after the season? No, like they're going to recover right so all of their like performance oriented like playing in the game now They need some recovery because we know over the course of 18 weeks 20 weeks They're taking a lot of bruises a lot of nicks a lot of you know bumps whatever it is and they got to restore all that Now until they're back to some level of maintenance or some level of like restoration Do you think that they can make any sort of adaptations to make them better for next year? Probably not right if if they leave the playing field and they they feel like complete shit and they're nursing a hamstring injury They can't go in and try to hit a super heavy back squat to increase their power for next season So it stands to reason that When we look at those phases, why are we not doing that with our diets, right? And so what we started to realize there's actually four very distinct phases that every single person goes through Um when we hear the word diet, we think of it as a very binary term Yes, you're dieting. No, you're not dieting I don't disagree with that But then I would add the question well, what phase of your diet are you in? Are you actively pursuing goal or your goals? Are you recovering from that active pursuit of goals? Are you in an effort to potentially make your next diet a little bit easier? Or are you preparing for that active pursuit of goals? And so from a you know sport nomenclature that would be are you in season post season off season or pre season And so the problem is most people have had this very binary I mean they're actively in season I'm pushing really really hard and they've done that for months or years on end Or they've done what's oftentimes worse. They've yoyo dieted and we all know body fat overshooting Right not only like because when you body fat overshoot, you don't just make your fat cells larger You actually increase the number of fat cells you have in your body And so now you're fighting an even bigger demon And you're making it even harder to lose weight long term. So I I believe that Probably 80% of people right now that if they were to go undertake a diet When we look at them where they're starting in a periodized setting They should consider the notion that maybe they need to start in the recovery phase the post season phase And we say at nci the you know, everyone's gonna say well, how long do I do how long do I do the post season? It's to restore homeostatic balance, right? If we restore homeostasis if your hormone levels are normal if your Biofeedback is normal if you're able to consume maintenance calories without gaining weight and all things are normal There's zero reason you shouldn't be able to lose weight The problem is most people that aren't losing weight if we were to give you maintenance calories right now It would be willing that you gain weight And if we went through all of your biofeedback and all of your physiology I'd be willing to bet we could find things that are not normal or not what we would consider at homeostasis Therefore, why are we trying to start a diet? That's analogous to a football player nursing injuries and trying to create better performance next year Yeah, what a great point, you know, by the way, there are studies that compare diets head to head The same general caloric deficit for the week or for the month And the difference is one group undulates their calories or periodizes And the other group keeps everything exactly the same every single day The group that changes things which is similar to what you're talking about Ends up burning more body fat and keeping more muscle and actually prevents Or mitigates that metabolic adaptation that tends to happen with a diet By the way, bodybuilders have known this for decades bodybuilders have done this Obviously the some of the ways that they talk about it. Maybe not so great But they've known this for a long time where they go bulking and cutting and Cycling, you know carbs and that that all came from that kind of physique Sport from that world because they saw that at work. We now have the data and the science to show that Well, Adam, you used to work with a lot of bikini girls and this was like a I mean This was like an epidemic in and of itself We would see girls go to these coaches and these coaches would chase pro cards all year And what would they do? They'd start at the first show of the year junior usa is in march and they would go junior usa is junior nationals usa is north americans national diet diet diet It's literally 800 calorie diet from march to fucking november and then they go back to eating 1800 and they put on 40 pounds and they don't know why yeah And it's like well, you never had a post season between diets and and by the way You probably need to put that back on that's what your body needs to effectively survive right now And we have to remember we've all made the statement, you know, we're not put on this earth to walk around at 6% body fat We're putting this earth to survive thrive and procreate So when you give your body food Relative to wherever it's adapted to which again is a normal thing It's gonna do what it needs to do with that food Not what you want it to do well to put it differently if you've dieted that hard from march to november And then you dramatically increase your calories 800 to 1800 Your body is like i'm gonna prepare for the next yeah eight month period of the next famine And i'm gonna store as much as possible and then you talked about how we actually 7000 calorie surplus for the week. Yes, which is pretty significant And you're talking about adding fat cells your this is your body's literally your body's attempt At being able to it's it's struggling to capture the all the extra energy And so it's improving its ability to capture more energy. So what does this mean? It's harder to get leaner later on back to the physique sports This is when you would hear bodybuilders physique competitors bikini competitors say I it's so much harder to get in shape than it was before or my body just doesn't look sharp Like it used to what's going on It's because your body is getting better and better at storing body fat They're teaching it to do anyone that listens to this you got to remember you can starve a body one time Right and so this is where I love to hear people say, oh, well, you know 800 calorie diets don't work Well, they do the first time Because you don't have any pre-existing metabolic adaptations So they work the first time because let's be honest 800 calories is a deficit You know in like I said earlier everyone in diet culture loves to throw around this crazy notion that diets don't work That's bullshit diets do work if you're in a deficit you are in a deficit and your body will lose weight I mean we've proven this with mcdonald's diets and twinkie diets But you know at the end of the day like you know like you said they're metabolically adapted. They're they're no longer in that deficit It's just it's not gonna work out and now so so when when people are listening to this and they're like, okay This is kind of challenging confusing. How do I work? Well, this is where you get the value of working with a coach Or a trainer and what a coach will do is walk you through this process And one of the most important things a coach will do is they'll tell you what to expect And here's what's going to happen over the next three weeks And this is great because when you're doing this and your coach tells you you're gonna feel a little hungry You're gonna have more energy less energy You're gonna notice this cravings and then they happen. You're like, okay. I'm ready. I know what's going on And this is the value of of a coach now you have you own one of the we consider to be the best certification Courses for coaches. How do you coach your trainers and coaches to do this? What does that conversation look like? Yeah, I mean this is actually so Ironically when we wrote this certification, um, I asked myself the simple question how how can we be different because Physiology hasn't changed since we were born, you know, since not in our lifetime not the lifetimes before us It's it's it hasn't evolved that much, right? Our bodies are going to work the same way and so the science is science Now I think that we continue to uncover more science But I think that the real magic is in the way in which you apply it You know if we were having this conversation a decade ago 10 years ago None of us would have been sitting here Like with any real inclination that the majority of dieters should be starting with some sort of recovery phase We would have just been talking about active dieting We might have been talking about dieting as a binary term as a yes or a no thing Whereas today we have that understanding and so I actually think it's one of the hardest things for new coaches Is to feel confident going to their clients and saying hey I know you want to lose 30 pounds, but you're gonna have to gain 10 pounds first sometimes to recover. Yeah I tell a story in level one. I worked with a lady She came to me and She was eating 800 calories a day and she was training five times a day And I was and she wasn't losing weight and she was I mean we're talking Mid to late 50s and I was like I had the very difficult conversation. I said hey if you want to work together I know you're hiring me to lose weight. You probably won't lose weight for at least a year And and you'll probably gain a reasonably significant amount over the course of that year And and I told her I said I need you to think on it. I need you to sleep on it and make sure you're comfortable with this process I said you're welcome to hire whoever you want, but anybody that tells you you're gonna lose weight immediately is completely full of Shit and you should run the other way I was really expensive at the time like I was $500 a month coach And she agreed to work with me and so for 20 months It took us to get her back to like a homeostatic balance No, a lot of people are like, why did you take so long? I believe there's a psychology aspect to reverse dieting as much as there's a physiology aspect to reverse dieting You know me being a former anorexic if I had to reverse diet and I gained 20 pounds of body fat I'd jump off a cliff Yeah So I think there's a psychology aspect that I observe with my clients as well And so we took 20 months, which means you know do the math She gave me $10,000 to gain something like 12 pounds And and then it took us another year of active of actively dieting to then get her to like her net loss Of of eight pounds, but ever since then we've been working together seven plus almost eight plus years now And it's sustainable She's not working out five times every every year we do a recovery Every year we do a time where she completely takes a break every year We ramp up for her cut because she likes to cut around her birthday And then every year we cut like around her birthday and she achieves a new best every year And this woman is in her early to she's like 63 64 now And she achieves a new personal best for her every single year now The the really cool part man is she's actually undergone some you know, she had cancer over this time And she's undergone some serious health issues over this time and and she will openly tell you she credits Her ability to fight through these things to me getting her healthy Not just her metabolism healthy, but her physically healthy as well And so, you know, man, like when we teach this to coaches, we teach it as a non-negotiable If your client is not willing to go through with a periodized process That means you as the coach are actively participating in hurting them, right? If we know this to be the way to create maximal levels Maximal levels of results you are ethically bound to do it this way And so if your client or your prospective client is not wanting to do it this way You got to walk away. I don't care how much money's on the table I don't care how much you need that money or you know, you have to walk away and you have to say Hey, you know what try it your way more power to you lots of people do I'll be here when you're ready for me, but this is the way we're going to do it And you know, I really I like to think we've made a reasonable dent Obviously, there's a massive problem with obesity and and issues in our world, but I know obviously I'm very in tune with our community We've certified over 6,000 coaches now and just watching the success stories of people doing it the right way man It's super cool. That's why we that's why you're the only nutritional Certification course for coaches that we work with that's why so so let me okay Let me ask you a question. How does somebody is there a way somebody can find an NCI coach? Is there a general way actually there is There's as we're recording today. There's not but in the I promise in the next 45 days We have a full database. We've actually gone through we have completely database every coach that has gone through NCI as well As where they're located So I know that like distance coaching is a big thing now But I also know some people like to see their coach and so we are actually going to have a coaching registry on our site So if you haven't been to our site, it's NCI certifications.com You can go there the registry should be updated in the next 45 days We have a brand new director of education who has actually headed this up for this reason Because a lot of people are looking for that potential now. So yeah, we're pretty pumped about it Ah, very cool. Well, hey man. Thanks for coming on. It's been a lot. It's been a lot of fun Always is when we have you on I always enjoy coming out man. I appreciate you guys have meal. Thank you