 Hello, welcome to NewsClick. This is election season and NewsClick has been travelling in Kashmir for last one month. We have been speaking to young voices from different backgrounds but to really understand what Kashmiri youth aspires, we are joined by three students from different universities of Delhi. Let me welcome Ajaz Ahmed Rathar from JNU. He is also the General Secretary of JNU SU. Ms. Bahreshi from Law Faculty Delhi University. Saki Parvez from St. Stephen College. Let me begin with you Ajaz. Local reports and NewsClick reports suggest that the youth of Kashmir is feeling dejected and alienated. They don't believe in electoral politics. What do you want to say about that? This is certainly a fact in Kashmir. The youth, especially the youth, they do not believe in electoral politics. It is because if you will see from last three decades, consistently there is a mass suffering in Kashmir and there is a blatant operation of the state that is happening in Kashmir. And now if you will see from 2014 since the coming of this Modi government, consistently, consistently the Modi government filled in Kashmir, vis-a-vis due to his muscular politics. And now if you will see consistently from 2014, Modi government is against the constitutional validity that was given to the Kashmir. If you will see the article 35, article 370 is being consistently attacked and now you can see the new BJP manifesto, what is called as Sankal Patra. If you can see how much that is based on that kind of muscular nationalism and how the hate campaign is being done on that kind of manifesto. If you can see recently, you can listen to the speeches of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Amit Shah, as well as the BJP veteran leaders like Jaitley and all that, how they are consistently speaking against article 35A and article 370A. In spite of that, if you will see consistently the academicians from the valley as well as the intellectuals from the rest of the India as well as the other, as well as in fact, in fact, the left has spoken that how article 35A and 370 has the constitutional validity and how it is come with that kind of political process. But we did not know why the BJP is going, manifesto is going again as the constitution. And like if you can see last time, how Narendra Modi in his rally in election campaign in Kutwa, how he was speaking like the language of RSS, that is totally non-acceptable and now how the youth will come towards the electoral politics, that is a question. If there is a alienation, how we will address the alienation. So, the center has failed particularly in Kashmir, whether it is BJP in fact, before that if you will see, if it was a Congress. How the regressive forces are being implemented in valley, there is a ban on civil traffic in Kashmir and now how much draconian is that? Ajaz said that the center has failed in Kashmir. I want to ask you what about the state government, what about the regional political parties? And definitely they too have failed the people of Kashmir, especially the youths of Kashmir and had they not failed us, had they not failed the youths and I do not think Kashmir would be at a point it is now. We see the daily recurrence of clings and definitely it is because of the effort of the state government towards the youths of Kashmir, towards the people of the Kashmir. Had they been more accountable, had there been an element of accountability in the state government into the army forces, I think we as the youths of Kashmir may increase our confidence into the electoral politics of the state of Juma and Kashmir otherwise I do not think the people of, especially the youths, they are drifting away from the electoral politics and the effort and the helplessness of the state government is drifting the youths towards the violent political course. Ms Bhai would like to ask you, he said that the state government and the failure of state government is drifting the youth away from the electoral politics. How do you see it? Because do you think, as Ajaz said, that it is the BJP government that has drifted the youth away? Is it only the BJP government or the failure of the whole state machinery? I think it is both the state and the central government, we cannot overlook the fact that it is not that the things were better when Congress was in power and since BJP things have gotten worse, it is just that BJP has a certain kind of political agenda that is anti-Muslim that also adds a certain kind of baggage and a burden on Kashmiri Muslims. But in terms of addressing the problem in Kashmir, I think whether it is Congress or BJP, whether it is a national conference or PDP, I don't think anyone has been able to adequately address what is happening and because of that, I agree with Saqib, the youth is feeling rejected and disenfranchised and looking at alternative methods. Sir, tell us, what alternative methods can be or are there that youths should follow? See, first of all, the alternative methods, the first of all, in Kashmir, is that what is the process of democracy and what is the way to sustain it? If you can see from the last four decades, in Kashmir, democracy has not been kept, democracy has not been given a chance and Kashmir has been taken only in one border state and this is always said, if you remember the argument, due to the problems of security and all that, the region is not able for a democracy. First thing is that, if you can see the mainstream political parties in Kashmir have often been toothless, the second thing is now the youth bringing the youth on the track. It is like the first thing is the policies, the second thing is as a policy of frame that should be given a trust, a dignity, a respect, then the third thing is now the third thing is the institution is, the institution is in Kashmir, the institution is in Kashmir are corrupt. An institution should be kept independent of its autonomy, if you can see the corruption in the Kashmir, if you can see the dysfunction of the institution, all that has eliminated it and the third most important thing is Upspa, use of pallets, use of those such kind of weapons, because there is no place in the world where weapons are used and the fourth thing is now the recent ban has come on the highway, roads are stopping the highway for two days for the civilians, so how the youth will come, how the policies will come, then the youth will come when there will be a change in the centre, a change in the policy level, which we are talking about the alienation, the argument of the alienation is coming, that can be the end, but now we are, I do not think that now this is in the hands of the BJP. Let me go to Sakim, he said Upspa, don't you think the deal militarisation should be the first thing and also the political parties, the many political parties who have come to power in their manifesto, the first thing they write is the demilitarisation, but that has never occurred, that has never happened, what do you want to say about that? Well, I think the military measures that the state extends to any problem, they only act as painkillers, the long time solutions to any conflict they come through a political outreach, through humanitarian aspects as you know, Vajpayee was so revered in Kashmir Valley, he was so and he is famous into the separatist circles also, but despite Vajpayee being very dear to the current prime minister, he is doing complete reverse to what he did, there was a towards the mainstream politics, towards the electoral politics in Vajpayee when he announced the conflict building measures with the separatists with the youths of Kashmir and that is what I think should be done in the valley, so that the youths are, we can bring back youths towards the mainstream politics because when once we take part in the mainstream electoral politics, it is only then we can find solution to our problems, it is not that even though electoral politics has been, you know, it is sort of defunct, it has been rendered what we call as irrelevant, but yes we need to get youths back to the mainstream politics so that this conflict can be avoided, the daily recurrence of killings can be avoided and yes as I say military measures don't, they only act as painkillers, not the long term solutions. Military majors as painkillers, youth drifting away from the politics, electoral politics, the, you know, emotion of ours are deraging, what do you want to say about that? I think firstly with respect to policies, I just want to add that there have been certain measures that the centre has taken, so for example you had the prime minister scholarship scheme or you had certain helplines that were set up in order to address whatever was happening to Kashmiris and now those policies also, although I don't know what the real intention was, but on the face of it intended to sort of address the problems that Kashmiri youth faces when they, you know, when you, where your intention is to sort of integrate them in your mainstream India, all those policies have also failed because those helpline numbers haven't worked, how a lot of students that have gone through prime minister scholarship scheme haven't received the funds, haven't, have had to go back because you know the university said that we haven't received the money, so Kashmiri youth is also then feeling that, you know, our problems aren't being addressed and obviously the main, the narrative of Azadi who is going to address that narrative, I mean we cannot keep engaging with sent state governments and parties that exist in Kashmir without also engaging with this narrative of Azadi, we cannot say that this is something that is, isn't a regional political sort of identity that the youth holds and just say that this is, you know, something that's sponsored, we, I think unless and until we address that you cannot holistically address the Kashmiri problem. Ijaz, what we saw after Bulwama attack, what we saw that how Kashmiris were thrown out of the colleges suspended, how they came back to Kashmir, do you think that the aftermath of Bulwama attack created a wedge between Kashmiri youth and India? Definitely, if you can see, that was specially a prime minister special scheme was started to take Kashmiri youths outside to the Kashmir and they will see the rest of the India, they will see they will get the exposure and all that, but when they came out and they have been after the Bulwama treasury, they have been beaten here by some hooligans, by some RSS, by some of the activists in the different places of India. The first important thing is they went back, but with what message? They went back to the valley. Which message they took back to the valley? That is the most important question. And second thing is we have also written for that. An attack happens there, but how the students have been attacked here and how, actually in the media, it has been continuously created continuously from the last four years. In the media, BJP, RSS, etc. has been run by a hate campaign. And endlessly, whatever anger was coming and you can see the governor, Tathagatra, you can see his statement, ban Kashmir youth, ban everything, ban business, you can see him behind it. If BJP, Ajwaj, I would like to ask you a very important question. If BJP is back in the center again, how will this Kashmir effect? What did Narendra Modi say in the Kathwa Rally we saw yesterday? He invoked Shama Prasad Mukherjee there. What do you want to say about that? Say, definitely, there is a policy of BJP, which is ideal for BJP, which comes from Jansang. And in which Jansang clearly says that we don't believe in Article 370, we don't believe in Article 35. And that logic comes from the RSS. The RSS never believes in the constitution of India. And that is definitely what Narendra Modi is following. So, the last rally we want to talk about, in 1953, Shama Prasad Mukherjee's mobilization, that has been rejected by the people of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh. Uswakar Jeebo, uska slogan tha ek Pradhan, ek Vidhan, ek Samidhan. Uswakar bhi the people of Jammu and Kashmir have rejected it. And we are believed, and we believe in our people, that if Narendra Modi government comes again, the people of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh will again reject such slogans. And that sangh's ideology. Article 370 and Article 35A has a strong constitutional and political backing. And there is no force in the India who can abrogate such kind of articles. And the fourth thing is, these articles are most important for the culture as well as for the identity of Kashmir. What about the Jammu youth? I would ask this question to all of you, what about the Jammu youth? Jammu youth sees the 370 article in Article 35A differently. How they see it has been evident in the last four years. It has come to the fore. You know, in the aftermath of Pulwama attack, we saw what happened in Jammu with Kashmiris. So what about the Jammu youth? How do you see it? See, most important thing is, if you can see, after the coming up of this BJP government in the center, what happened was most unfortunate that, that they were trying to make a gap. Jammu is against Kashmir, Ladakh is against it. That happened in the last three years. Particularly, BJP's communal polarization for voting. And they concentrated mostly on the Hindu dominated areas in Jammu. And that is happening now. But see, in this time, I think we, each, we, the people of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh, have to come together. First of all, by rejecting the BJP in Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh, in this elections. And the second thing is to, we have to talk to each other because we are dependent towards each other on the basis of business. There are some people here, there are some people there. And the certain is that, all the communal elements, whether in Jammu, Ladakh, Kashmir, we have to reject that. And the youth has to understand that. You think this time, that this time, just to reject BJP, the Kashmiri people will come out and vote? Article 370 is under attack. Article 35A is under attack. And the way you can save it is by a meaningful response. And what the meaningful response has to be, it has, it has to be decided by the youths. As I say that, both the Hurriyat camp and the mainstream camp, they should come together, they should cut some slack and start a meaningful process in this regard as to how to save their identity. Because this is the only bridge between India and the Kashmir. And it has the constitutional validity. And attacking this means attacking of the Kashmir identity. And also there has to be a dialogue between the youths of Jammu and the youths of Kashmir. And the sooner we do it, the sooner we can see a change. Dialogue between youth of Jammu and youth of Kashmir. What do you think? I think that the youth of Jammu and the youth of Kashmir both have distinct political identities and both these identities carry a lot of baggage. So I think the kind of experiences that a Kashmiri youth has had living in Kashmir and a Jammu youth has had living in Jammu is drastically different because of the situation in Kashmir. I think the kind of again, like as you said, hate mongering has been going on has created a vast difference between these two groups. But obviously there needs to be a meaningful dialogue so that they are able to see that, you know, what is happening in Kashmir and why are they, you know, behaving a certain way? Why is there political identity, a certain identity and why is it different from the Jammu identity? I think addressing the difference of identity will only be a way forward to then sort of addressing how they can come together. Just in the rest of the country, if we see, Kashmir has always been seen through the lens of encounters and the youth, when we speak of youth, youth doesn't just want violence. So what are the aspirations of youth? Can you tell us in detail what the aspirations of youth are? Actually this picture has been created by the Godi media. Consistently, if you can see, if there is a little bit of something in Kashmir, then you can see when a show starts on Kashmir, you can see a man, you can see a small child or he is coming with his mask on his face and he is belting stones and all that. So, first of all, the media has to run in Kashmir by following his ethics. That is the most important thing. The second thing is, as you say, the aspirations of youth, certainly, the way the world's aspirations of youth are that we study, we want a good life, a prosperous life, that way, we are in Kashmir as well. But deliberately, this hysteria has been created in Kashmir. If you can see that, consistently, we are saying that for coming Kashmir into normalcy, you have to get rid of it. You have to demilitarize the region. And then you have to give them a dignity. They will not give you a special scholarship if a region which is happening consistently from last 40 years due to conflict, why there are no scholarships for Kashmir is in everywhere in the central universities, in different institutions, as well as in IITs. Some special policies should be made towards the youth. How they will come to India, how they will see it, what is going on outside. People have been shut down. You are being shut down in a landlocked territory. The media in Delhi is running in Kashmir's name. So certainly, these policies should change at a policy level. That is the most important thing. And then the aspirations of youth, the aspirations of youth, they want a prosperous life, they want a good education. And you can see in Kashmir, But you do not feel that in Kashmir, the aspirations you told me, that we have a job, we have a good life, we have a home, this is a normal aspiration. But you feel that even after this, there are some aspirations of youth in Kashmir. See, certainly Kashmir is a political question. There is no doubt about that. And every Kashmiri has a political aspiration. But each and every time we are seeing that to come for the solution of Kashmir's problem, a need to resolve it, there is a need of political dialogue. Political dialogue between the both the countries. Political dialogue between the different stakeholders in Kashmir. So the process and the Kashmiri problem have to be solved by following that major only. But consistently from last four years, we have seen like this government, it is... So what do you think? I also asked Saqib that just to reject BJP. Like you said that Kashmiri people have become very dejected by the BJP government. So to reject BJP, will Kashmiri people come out and vote this time? See, certainly people, at this time what we are seeing in the whole country, like BJP and particularly the agenda of Kashmir. So certainly my personal opinion, the people, not in Kashmir, Jammu, Ladakh, everywhere people should vote in the agonist of BJP. And for the better state, we should keep BJP out of Jammu, Kashmir, Ladakh. And for that people have to vote. And certainly we have seen the mainstream parties in Kashmir, whether that is National Conference, that is PDPR, some other parties. They have failed it, definitely. They have failed it from last three decades. A new party has come in the fray. Shaaf Hazal JKPM, what do you want to say about that? See he is not contesting Lok Sabha elections. So right now we don't know how many people are going to go ahead and vote for them. But I think as far as I understand it, there is a certain kind of dilemma in the minds of people in terms of his agreement with the Indian election system. And those who boycott elections obviously are not supporting him on that level. But on the other hand, of course, there is the fact that he is someone who is, he is an intelligent man and he is obviously representing the, he aspires to represent the voice of the youth and the people. So to some extent, people are also going to support him for that. But I think it really depends. Important question to you, Sakev. Dignity in death, not in living. Kashmiri youth sees dignity in death, not in living. That is the thing that worries me the most when people, and when they, especially the youths, we talk of youths then, when they see dignity in death and they don't see dignity in living. This is the most worrying thing. And this is something that will slip Kashmir out from the hands of India and even from the hands of Pakistan. I would go to the extent of saying this, because we have seen that the youths of the Kashmir, there's a narrative going on in Kashmir that they are rejecting the Indian mainstream politics. They are rejecting the narrative of Pakistan. They are taking it upon themselves. And the moments which we have seen post-2016 are the ones, they are leaderless moments. The youths have taken it upon themselves. And this sense of... Rejecting Indian politics. Rejecting Indian politics. Sakev said that youths are rejecting Indian politics. When we talked to youths, they said that they don't care whether BJP comes or any other party comes. And you say that they want to vote to reject BJP. What do you want to say in both the contradictions? No, certainly. Whether people from Jammu, Kashmir, Ladakh will vote or not, the government will still be in Jammu and Kashmir. MPs will go from there. And the upcoming assembly elections, the government will be there. But the most important thing is, of course, we have a certain criticism towards the mainstream parties in Kashmir, whether that is the National Conference, PDP as well as some other parties. They have failed from the last three decades consistently in their memorandums, in their agendas. And what they were saying on the Kashmir and they have been easily handpicked by the centre and centre had used them in whatever means they will. But the most important thing is, in this time, we have to think that what kind of a government we want in Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh. Does we want BJP back who has banned Jammu for two days? Does we want such kind of a government which has lynched the people? But the youth government doesn't see themselves with India. What will you say on that? I think most definitely that is a strong political affiliation of a lot of people where they don't identify with any political party of India because they reject the whole system and they say that, you know, we want an alternative. So that way, whether it's a BJP or a congress, they would not go and... If the youth talks about alternative, what alternative? Which alternative? Alternatives will come once we start debating things, once we start discussing things, once we start discussing the conflict. And as I say, before we start talking about the realisation of our political aspirations... Is Azadi an alternative which youth of Kashmir talks about? Let's first, you know, define what Azadi is. What does it mean? It's for the youths to decide and debate on this, what Azadi is. What kind of a political formation, state formation do they want? What kind of a relation do they want with Pakistan? It's for them to decide what it is and what it would be like. It's for them to decide. We are seeing it consistently. Kashmir is a political problem. And to solve the question... Alternative, alternative. Alternative is a dialogue. Alternative is a dialogue and a peaceful resolution of the issue. Dialogue between who? Dialogue between India, Pakistan, dialogue between the different stakeholders in Kashmir, whether that is mainstream, whether that is separatist, whether that... Dialogue with everyone and take Kashmir issue as a resolution. My last question to all of you is that if there is a metaphor to describe Kashmir, you know, if there is a metaphor to describe the relationship between Kashmiri youth and the Indian state, what would it be? If you want to describe it in a metaphor, what would be the relationship between Kashmiri youth and Indian state? I have nothing to say. No. Like, we cannot discuss it in metaphor, but certainly Kashmiri youth towards India, it is the most problematic thing. And how the centre has deal in this Kashmir and how the youth has been suffered consistently. It has you mean that the centre has failed in last four years to address what the youth wants. Yes, definitely. What do you think of the metaphor, the question I asked? Very peculiar kind of relationship because while there is obviously a deep resentment towards what is their personal experiences both in Kashmir and outside, where there is a military occupying them in that area when they're in Kashmir and then when they come out the kind of what the media is saying about them and what the way people interact with them, so obviously they are confused. Like, there are the memories of pain in Kashmir and memories of pain have been constantly coming in the memories of youth of Kashmir and such memories are constantly like they are bridging a gap and if you can see the New Delhi New Delhi has not been able to address such memories, such pain is which the youth have suffered, so certainly that is a problem in Kashmir. How is a Kashmiri woman, you see this election and what are your expectations out of this election? So with respect to Kashmiri women, I don't know if I can make a statement about them as a homogeneous group, I think just as there are individual political affiliations of Kashmiris. Kashmiri women also have a diverse set of political affiliations. Most definitely the problem affects them in a certain different manner as compared to a Kashmiri man and just like there are different political affiliations of a Kashmiri man, Kashmiri women also seek to address their issues through different channels. So women will go out and vote and they feel that this is how their issues are going to be addressed while there will be women who will boycott elections because they feel that that's the way the issues are going to be. What do you think happened in her tenure? Definitely it is a statement where there is a female representative in power but it is not to say that a female representative means that they are going to address all issues of women. It's a symbolic existence more than a representative existence in the sense that to what extent are they going to address because as far as how many people were blinded by pellets, how many women lost their husbands and sons so I think to what extent was she able to address that because a Kashmiri woman has that identity in Kashmir as well. So most definitely it was symbolic in the sense that there is a female representative but I don't think she was able to address issues of Kashmiri women. Thanks for joining us. 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