 Recorded. Good morning. This is the elementary school building subcommittee. It's Wednesday, the 10th of May, 2023. And this is a new subcommittee, so we don't have a formal chair yet. But I am Jonathan Salvat and one of the members of the of our larger committee. And I am calling it to order. This morning. The first item on the agenda is to organize leadership. And I'm going to start off saying I don't mind sharing today's meeting. I would prefer not to be the permanent chair just because I believe I'm still the chair of the, the net zero committee. But I'm okay volunteering for, for today's purposes to, to be the chair. Does anyone want to be the temporary chair or the permanent chair? I nominate Jonathan as temporary chair. So second, need a second. Yeah, we guess we need to do a second. I'll second my second. Mike will be second. Great. We should take a vote. Mike. Hi. John. Hi. And Jonathan is also a yes. Jonathan, sorry, Rupert just joined us and now we have four. Great. Good morning, Rupert. Can you confirm that you can hear us and we can hear you. Good morning. Can you hear me? Yes. I don't know quite when you, you joined us, but we were just doing a little bit of organizational work. And electing at least a temporary chair for today's meeting. Just, did you come in while we were doing that? And did you have a desire to be a chair to this committee? I don't want to leave anyone out. I have no desire to be the chair of the committee. I only heard the second. So I don't know who the nominee is. It's, it's me. Rupert I. Thank you. I personally find it hard to take notes in chair. And I get at least a volunteer for today's meeting to record. Jonathan, I just wanted to say, sorry, I know we just. But I considering that you're already chairing another subcommittee, if it'd be helpful for the group, I'm happy to become the chair, you know, either today or after today or something like that, because you shouldn't be doing both. Thank you. Well, since we already voted, let's let's just proceed. Okay, as we are today, I was kind of prepared to do it today. I just know that the next month, six weeks is going to be kind of intense. So, okay, and I'll take, I can do minutes today. Thank you, Sean. Jonathan, sorry, me again. There's another Donna Dines go on the call. So I'm assuming that's been him. But from our office, Phillip, Phillip, okay. My team, you should be able to change your name and that might be a little more helpful and Phillip if you could show your face that would be great too. And now we've got Margaret joining us. So we're all little behind. That's okay. I'd say it's a Monday, it's but it's not a Monday. Is this everyone you expect from your team Donna or are there other people that we should wait for before. We probably good Benium is not with us this morning, correct him. That is correct. Okay. That should do it. Alex, maybe Phillip can show you how to change your name. And more most importantly, we have John Sousa from Crabtree McGrath, who's our kitchen food service consultant and John, you have a hard stop at 10. Correct. Yes, I have to leave the meeting. Well, I think we've done all the organizational items we need, at least for today. And so, Donna, I'm going to more formally turn it over to you to to walk us through. What you need to walk us through today. I think you want to start with the value engineering schematic design. Is there a piece or do you want to go straight to the cafeteria kitchen, given the time constraints. Tim, I think what we want to do, let me just give a quick overview and thank you. I know we'll be having people. Sorry, Mike, go ahead. One more request. I didn't mean to interrupt is that because we have Mike Gallo icon or our school nutrition director here, if folks could prioritize talking about cafeteria and kitchens first if there's other topics to get to great. Just out of respect for his time. I'd appreciate it. And same with John, but so hopefully I will be seeing you all very frequently. Just want to give you kind of an overview. This is going to be somewhat of an iterative process. The goal is we have about four months to complete design development. So this building, the subcommittee really is going to be important. We have a separate one for site separate one for sustainability, but this is really to make sure that all the aspects of the building are for the most part identified throughout this process. We do have a little catch up to do, which is value engineering to your point, Jonathan, we accepted a lot of minor changes to reduce the overall cost of the project, but we also have some items that we do need to wrap up at this phase and we've identified those over the next several meetings. And we'll kind of recap at the beginning of every meeting where we left off with the last one just so there's no confusion as well and making sure that we're all in agreement and then ultimately we'll be reporting to the building committee as a whole. And then we'll be looking at the basis, the work of this group so I, I know it's a lot. We really appreciate your involvement. It's so important that you remain involved and this is your school so with that Tim, and introduce John Susa with Crabtree McGrath. Hi Mike, nice to see you again. I haven't met once before we did a little bit of original conversations but Tim, I'll just turn it over to you I'm assuming you've got something to reason. I have a plan that I'm going to bring up on the screen of the cafeteria building in general outside plans for reference but I will need Jonathan or Sean to allow me to share my screen up. You should be all set now. So jumping right in, we're going to talk about the cafeteria as it relates to the elements of the kitchen how it flows and how it relates to the site immediately outside. The reason we want to talk about this at the very beginning of this process is because there are some changes in shifting happening outside with the site and we just want to make sure that this large space that is used by a lot of students using the school public connects to all of these elements appropriately and works the way that has to happen that the egress to recess coming in and out the use of the music spaces. Most importantly, the server line all is set up to function flow as we talked about initially and we'll talk about as we get deeper into the design. So I'm just going to zoom right in on cafeteria. We have it set up so that there are two serving lines, going to a point of sale transactions in the center, entering from both sides, a bottle filler at one side, tray return at the other chair storage. And as it was initially discussed with john and Mike entrance from the main lobby to the cafeteria and seating for three servings. We want to make sure that we have all the major elements of right place we have an appropriately size we want to make sure that we have in miss anything. We don't have an item or area specifically identified for trash. And I know we've talked about that a couple times and it's problematic so we first want to take a look at the overall layout and make sure that it's what we expected that we're moving in the right direction and then I realized that no one has been looking about it and thinking about it for all the time that has left but if they have things that we might want to shift or change. And so, maybe john Susan, I'll get if you want to bring up any questions that you might have or so take the conversation. Yeah, absolutely thank you. Yes, so the plan that you see there. We have indicated some equipment on the plan based on, you know, those early discussions obviously will continue to refine the design. And improve it as we go along in a collaborative way. If you want to zoom in I can, I can, I can speak to various components of the kitchen. For the most part, it's it's all the basic components that you would see in any school kitchen, we have the ability to store right so we'll have, we'll have walk in cooler and freezer and dry good storage rooms so that we can, you know, have a store of the oven process. We prepare it, we cook it, we then serve it. Cooking will take place. This is an all electric kitchen. We understand that but cooking will happen in convection ovens as we had discussed steaming will happen in the steamer. So we have a kettle and a braising pan at this point to be able to do, you know, large batch cooking for example you would do in the kettle you could do large batches of pasta. In the skillet you could do large batches of say soups and meat sauces and that type of thing so you have the ability to prepare fresh nutritious food here. The components are there. And again this equipment will shift around it will, you know, it's type will will change with respect to what its function is but one thing that will not change. From my understanding, especially with net zero goals is that it will remain electric equipment. Now, the fortunate thing for us in school food service is the types of cooking we do. We notice a difference in its performance and there really is no difference in the performance with this type of cooking ovens will function as they always have ranged hops will function as they have. The only difference is the fuel source will be electricity which will come from, you know, increasingly a more renewable source so it's a very nice feature. In the cooking line we will have various pieces of equipment that we that supports the cooking and also supports the serving function so in that center strip down the middle of the kitchen we have work surfaces we have sinks we have hand washing stations we have food prep sinks, we have the ability to take food that we've cooked and hold it at proper holding temperatures within warmers, which then those warmers are used to replenish the hot food as the students move through these lunch waves. We also have cold holding basically reach in refrigerators where, as we process say salads and fruit cups we can hold those things in the refrigerator until it's time to display it on the serving counter. We can maintain its proper holding temperature because throughout this entire process we have to have the components that are in here to satisfy the health department regulations as well as be functional for your, you know, and have the volume to deal with the volume the students coming through. The lines for the most part mirrored as the students come in the first thing they presented with is a hot food, which is typically portioned out for them in the tray reusable trays handed to them, which they then take that tray continue down the line, and then they just select from there, so they'll take something for a cold component of vegetable or fruit, they will take a milk, dairy component of water, and then any other components that are made available palm fruits anything anything like that, and then they're, they get to the cashier stand. What's happening there is they're just checking in the just checking in to make sure that they've received and taken all the components that are required. You know, for a well balanced nutritional meal, and then they go and sit down and eat when they are done, they bring the reusable tray to the drop window where someone is standing there, they can. They're composting and in the recycling happens right so it can be done a couple of different ways, we can have barrels out there with a student self sort, and then any organic waste can be dumped into the organic waste bucket. You know, any recyclables can be disposed of in the proper vessel, the tray is put through the window, a staff member takes that tray racks it onto a. It's called a tray rack, which then goes through the machine, the dish washing the tray washing machine comes out magically on the other end very clean and sanitized, and then the tray goes back into service so you're reusing that tray and not having to use a disposable tray, or styrofoam. And as you'll notice within that space of three compartments sink, that is the code minimum. You could, if you wanted to do everything in that three compartments sink but really the most efficient way, and the least of, you know, use of water would be to use the machine because the machines have gotten to be so efficient that they use less than a half gallon of water per cycle of washing so it's they're super efficient they've gotten they've gotten to be so. So so good at that doing so so much with so little water. So we want to encourage the use of the machines and we've made that machine. It's all enough to be able to accept the utensils that we're using to cook as well so that we're not having to do our washing manually, we can run everything through the machine if we wanted to, but the three compartments sink is there and invent of a power failure. You know we can still manually do that process of washing rinsing and sanitizing whatever it is that we're using to prepare food and to serve so that function is still present. Once the food is collected let's say we want to compost we would collect that food we would hold it and then we would typically ship it off site with a vendor that you would select recyclables go into the recyclable dumpster and then trash goes into the to the regular trash dumpster. Cardboard of course can say anything can happen there and any organic waste from the kitchen same thing you can collect it, sort it, and then have it also sent off site. So that's a fast overview, I know I'm happy to go back and answer any questions discuss any more particulars about the equipment but the next step will be to obviously refine this plan, prepare a cut book, a book that has images of this equipment so that we can then you have more information more detail to continue down the process of making this an exceptional kitchen. Yeah, I'm Jonathan sorry before Mike jumps in Tammy just joined us just to let everyone know. Hi, Tammy. Nice to see you. Hi john. So, a question that I have about one question, the dish room. So that's a three basic you said against the wall. So, inside wall is the dish machine, are there drying racks in. Yes, well, we'll have drying racks will have. We'll have the portable drying racks that you'll have within this room we just haven't shown that level of detail yet but typically there'll be some in that room. There'll be some scattered throughout the kitchen so the idea is that you can, you can take these racks and use them as you see fit right. It's why they're on wheels, and they'll subsequently they'll be the same type of racks that we use in your walk in coolers. So, if you find that you don't need as many drying racks, but you need more cooler storage racks, you can use them. There's some flexibility built in so that you can use them however you see fit. And then. So, by the walk in the cooler and the freezer is that. Is that a prep sink in that area over there. Yes, so just outside the walk in cooler and again like we'll go into this in detail when we meet in the plans will be much more specific but outside of that walk in cooler freezer area is an L shaped prep table with sufficient room in the center there to put a mobile table if you so chose to do. So that prep table has doors in it, it will have sinks in it will have wall shelves along the wall, it will have power in it so that you can plug various pieces of equipment in you can bring a food processor and take it away and bring a food slicer and take it away, so that it can be, it can be used as you see fit. Okay, and one other question. So the, the warming cabinets are those. Are they going to be fixed, are they going to be portable. Right now they're shown as fixed, but it, it wasn't, there's no right or wrong. If they want to be portable they can be portable if they're fixed, then they're fixed. It really is a detail we would work out based on what's best for, for, you know, for the program. Today, it's 5050, sometimes they're fixed, sometimes they're more stationary it really depends on what your preferences are. Mike, what are you thinking, as far as fixed or as far as one as far as them being fixed or or permanent or stationary. I mean, it would mean probably be good to have the option of being able to move them is not as long as we're not, you know, losing a lot of capacity, and then, you know, like the size. Yeah, at least having one, you know, portable or my cabinet would be good. And then that too, that's in both. So, so if you want to just keep down no no you're fine just Mike just keep thinking about it right you're right flexibility is key. Who knows as maybe requirements or nutrition requirements for students might change in the future whatever just might give you a little more flexibility how you can lay out the server. All right. And do you have any other comments or thoughts as far as the layout. I think what we're trying to do is today just confirm that the layout does or does not meet your needs and then we want to do a little more shuffling around, especially as it relates to the walls for dry, you know, for the dry storage and all of that. Not so we can nail that down but just getting some overall thoughts from you. I think it looks pretty good. The one thing that might concern me is like the dish return area. It looks like it's going to be maybe tight for space as far as having like, you know, trash or composting and like with the with the door. I mean, like I said door wouldn't be used a lot by the chair storage room, but I got to know how, how long that wall is the dimensions of like how much space they're going to have different, you know, bins. Yeah, the location of that door may want to move to the other side of chair storage one for simply the function of moving things in and out of storage is easier than going around to turn. I mean the reason it's there now is because this is a highly visible wall as you're walking through the building, but the function may dictate that it simply can't be there and if we're if there are trash and compost bins that need to be here. We'll have to adjust that plan. Yeah, that would probably be a better design for us as far as function and space right there. I agree. And I think we can marry that that room and find better efficiencies and the use of the kind of the strip down the middle. And we, and I think we we have some, we may have the ability to make that room a little wider. And the other thing I can do is is in this next iteration of the plan, I can show barrels out there, like a typical barrel size like a 23 gallon barrel, just for reference to say, you know, not that it will be a round barrel but just to say okay well this barrel is about two feet round, and this is about how many you can get in that space so that at least we have something to work with the next time we review this kitchen. Tim, what is what is the dimension of the composting area. The sink composting area just again, everything seems so hard when you when you don't have a scale or a reference. I have it on my other screen. It's just yeah, yeah. Nine and a half at 10 feet wide. Yeah. And then the other thing that I think I need to think more about is like the serving area that the cashier like just how much room. Is going to be available. I'm getting through the area for each meal period. Yeah, and if it helps I can throw dimensions on there for reference again, so that we can, you can have some time to think about it before you get it and if we need to we can even show, you know, students standing there, just to give you, you know, again that visual aid and helping to understand how we think the flow will work. And then if we need to make adjustments we make adjustments. And then Mike, I think what we're thinking is Tam is on the call as well, Rupert, that it's probably going to be three seedings for lunch. So let's just say it's about 200 students per lunch. So, you know, it's and most everyone does go through the lunch line right. So now it's about 65% or so kids. Yeah, yeah. So, just as we start thinking about, you know, the flow, how many students will be going through there. The other thing, Tim Cooper, we're talking about those where the point of sale stations are those are going to be barn doors. Is that correct. That is how they are currently shown. Yes. So the barn, you know, nice wood barn doors Mike that will open and close so that you can close off the kitchen, but that whole area would be open. And, and if needed. John, I don't know if you could help me out a little bit I think the stations are do not require power everything is typically Wi-Fi and battery charge late going forward. It depends on what what what what system is selected but we've been seeing that a lot of these point of sale what we call the point of sale even though it is not a sale transaction it's more of a cataloging system. The program is is is battery powered and Wi-Fi. So, but if it wasn't, then what we would do is we would have to we would have to have a power plug in the data port to be able to feed those registers now that can be done a variety of ways and we can work out how that is but the idea is that anything that those cashier stands or those those those stands can, they're portable they're on wheels and they can wheel into that, that aisle way, where the students walk through, and then you can close those barn doors so let's say you have an event in the cafeteria. You don't want to see those registers there. You can wheel them out of the way close everything off so everything's nice and neat and put away. And then the other thing I was thinking as as we think about the logistics not not an answer we need today but when you think about requiring power if it's not battery or Wi-Fi. You know where do we put the outlets, where do the cords run. So, so it really creates less flexibility once once you get in and start using it. The other thing would be if it was battery and Wi-Fi, depending on the flow of the students you could actually push those further out into the cafeteria if needed there's room. So that if you're realizing, you know, there's a live jam or whatever that you could actually, you know, give yourself a little more space. And then I don't know how many, I'll say cashiers but folks that will be operating those that's the other consideration you could actually end up having, you know, two lines. And on each side of those stations. That's correct. Yeah, we can, as we work through the design that will have been flow. You know, we can we can come up with various schemes and test different things like we can show different different configurations on paper so that in the future, if you want to add a third register, what that would look like and, or if it's just one register what that would look like, you know, for example. Yeah. So these are just little details that we want to work out over the next few months if you want to start giving it some thought. Yeah, so between. So there's no separator between the two serving lines is that correct. What do you mean by separator. There's no like there's not a wall or I mean so somebody could like walking. So here where the cursor is, I mean, it's possible but would that be beneficial. No, I was wondering if. Well, if they had if it would be an option if it was like one cashier. And they could use both sides of the line, just in like a. In a single way, like, yeah, and like use both sides of the lines as one line. I think not every day but like, you know, you could do that or you could close one of the doors and only use one side. But we can get into that because we may want to configure that serving line in such a way that you could use it either way by putting say the milks on the milk and on the ends instead of the one big one in the middle two smaller ones on the ends. There's a lot of different ways to configure the serving. We can talk about that because if that becomes a thing where you want to run just one line and use both sides of the line as one line, then that will certainly affect how we want to lay this out because we have to, we have to make it work both ways, which I mean, not normally I would want to but like I'm just thinking of like contingencies because, you know, things happen sometimes and if, you know, situation arose where we didn't have people like trying to plan ahead for like, how we can make that work as best as possible. Labor woes and, you know, not having just not having the people right so you need to be able to adapt. I understand. Sean, you had your hand up and then Rupert. Yeah, I have several small questions that are all based on experiences in the schools so that's why I'm just kidding is that they seem silly. Is there a grill listed as a piece of equipment would there be a grill. There is no grill. Like would you ever see a need for a grill I know at one point that was desirable for some of the scratch cooking that was hoped for and given this being a bigger school with a new facility to see a need for a grill. Mike yellow. Well, is there. Is there a tilt skillet is that is. Okay. Right, so you could use that like a griddle. So let's say you were doing stir fries, you could do it in a grid in the skillet. I mean, I said, grill, not griddle, but like a trailer, like a flat top grill, a smooth top grill. Yep. Yeah, those terms are interchangeable. So that's why it's okay. So you, yeah, griddle and grill, and then grill and char broiler are kind of the same thing. So, so there's like, there's like one term for both. That's the flat smooth metal plate. Let's call it a griddle. You can do that function on it like a range top. And that's a separate piece of equipment or you can combine it with the skillet where the skillet has that same smooth flat surface so you could use it like a griddle. And this skillet has sides on it. So it's a little inconvenient in that respect, but it's convenient and in that if you're doing high volume you can really load it up with save vegetables and do a stir fry and it's not going all over the place and you know, it's only, you know, anything's possible, putting a griddle in is not out of the ordinary, certainly not out of the question. It's, it can be accommodated, if it's going to get used. Yeah, so I'll just say, I can move on from that one but Mike Gallo just think about whatever equipment you can imagine maybe needing down the road, and then we can make sure it's there. Storage. Again, some of these are more for Mike. Like, okay, do you Mike in terms of the path that deliveries will have to take to get to either the cooler the freezer, or the dry storage. Yeah, I mean it's not ideal but it's, you know, unless we had a door on the outside. You know the deliveries are going to come through the kitchen. Dry storage is fine cooler freezer. They're usually on dollies right so I assume that the width. It's just a matter of like, you know, usually come early, you know, or later. So I wouldn't really be interrupting. Okay. And then the waste. Tim, maybe you can show the path that waste would take to get out of the building it go from that sort of corner in the cafeteria and then across the hall. It would go across the hall through receiving storage and dumpsters would be in this area out here. Okay. And this may be something that no longer is an option post COVID but with Mike, do you ever see again a salad bar coming and making a comeback. I know that was popular before COVID, especially with adults. Maybe space in there for it. I'm just curious if you think that would be something to consider. Yeah, a salad bar, like having a location for a salad bar, like, like important like the serving area right before, before you get to the register would require changing the configuration a little bit if we can. The serving area a little bit, I think. Yeah, as Donna said, we have some room there I think we can, we can move those cashiers and a plan left and work something in so would that be a secondary point where students could take, say, a vegetable, an additional vegetable side or cold. Yeah, we're having to compose salads or about how many wells would you need cold wells would you need in that. Do you still have the one at the middle school Mike. I mean we can send a picture if you think that one's a good. The nice thing about that one is it's portable so I can kind of move around and picture that one. Please do and then from from the photo I can tell about how many wells are in it and then we can talk about it. A couple of little things. Are those coolers next to the registers on the outside facing out. No, those are condiment stands I'm sorry. Okay, so that those are portable they have some lockable storage down below, and then just a flatwork surface which you can use to display, you know, any napkins or if you wanted to use them for something else you certainly could and if you didn't want them at all, we can delete them. Okay. And then the last thing, and I assume this is probably standard now but again it was something we struggled with. I assume the dry storage those all be metal racks throughout the dry storage. The combination of wire racks NSF approved. So what that means is it's, it's, it's, it's rated for food for food use. What metal wire racks and then down the center I have done is platform so the idea is that you would take say case storage, loaded in the middle. And as you break down the cases you can put it away on the shelves and you're rotating the stock. So that can change if you find a different configuration that works better, all wire shelving we can do that if you want all done ish platforms we can do that as well it's it's really up to you how you want it to function. Thank you. Rupert. All right, I'll try to ask a couple of quick questions hi I'm Rupert facilities director. Sean. Do you expect there will be have to be a kitchen hoods and answer equipment and so forth. Yes, there will, there will be an answer sitting because we are cooking. We will need, we will need a hood to exhaust. You know, grease lane vapors and heat. There's no combustion gas right as well electric. So there is, but there is still a fire system in the event that you know, the fire system there's more than just extinguished fire it shuts down. It shuts down the hood, it shuts down the make up air to the hood it shuts down power to the hood, and it sets into motion some sequences that need to happen so there will be a fire system. Nice thanks. Also, do you expect to walk in cooler and freezer to have the condensers on top or outside the building. They typically go outdoors when we can do that to get that heat and that noise out of the building. Thank you. The chair storage table I don't know if this is a question for you. The chair storage will that have room for the cafeteria tables. It will be 300 square feet which is the program area that me depending on the table should fit it you will not be able to fit all of the tables plus the chairs that will be part of the front of package for an assembly type use. So what kind of tables set should fit in them. So Rupert we we typically, you know, it will come down to what cafeteria tables are selected. Ultimately, but we typically do show how they can fit in the chair storage. So basically, right, it's going to be all of the assembly chairs that are in there that are on dollies and and or the car chair carts and then you just pull them out and then you would just rotate them but you know when we get to cafeteria table selection will show how they can all stack neatly in there. But it typically works. I just, I just had to ask. Thank you. My questions for the moment. So, so john. Yeah, I do just want to bring up the fact that it's obviously all electric. The project will be net zero. The question would be, as it relates to equipment and getting the most energy efficient equipment. If there are options considerations we have any proprietary issues, maybe you could just talk to that just to rest assure everyone that you're well versed, you live and breathe this daily and and what we got going. So the key, the key to net zero. When it comes from my perspective with respect to kitchen equipment is you, you know, we have a budget, we have a dollar budget for the equipment well we we approach it was we have a wattage budget to you know we want to keep those watts as low we want to keep the consumption as low as possible so what we do is we, you know, for example on the refrigeration side, where we can we specify our 290, which requires a lot less power input to to function. It's basically propane. It's, I know it's a gas but we need a gas in that refrigeration system. I'm thinking about the regions in order to be able to, you know, cool that box down. Propane is the most efficient way to do that and it's, and it's about as much propane as you get in a small lighter, and that's in the system and it's enclosed it's in a loop so it's not being released into the atmosphere but it's what is transferring it's what's pulling the heat from from the from the atmosphere. So instead of using a refrigerant, you know, some chemical or 20 to whatever it is our 404 we're using our 290 the benefit to that is you need a lot less of it, like so much, so much less, and it's super efficient so instead of that reach in refrigerator requiring 11 amps to run, it only requires 4.2 or 2.9. So we, those are the things we start to pick away at the power consumption of these various things. We start dishwashers low water usage, you know water sense faucets, where where it makes sense, eat recovery at the dishwasher for example is something that we do so that the dish machine is only using cold water it doesn't need to use hot water. And the more it runs the more efficient it becomes so if you're using it for two hours a day it's much more efficient than if you were to use it for one hour a day. So strategies like that, the hot holding cabinets, fully insulated low wattage units on the hot wells so that we're not, we're not, we don't need to cook the food thus we don't need to put all that energy into the food at the hot well so we're very careful about how we specify the hot well so that we're providing just enough wattage to keep the food hot to the level that we need it without overdoing it and using energy we don't need you know we don't need to use so those are the things that we do we we manage the watts like we do the budget, you know the monetary budget. Thank you and I know we'll be working with you and Simone as it relates to the equipment and the energy and the code requirements so that's a whole whole nother conversation that we're not going to bore Mike with at this point, I think. Rupert or Mike sorry did you still have more questions you've been. I guess one last question had was about the dimensions of the walk in cooler and freezer. I can give you that now. So, just to give you an idea so so that's a panel eyes to give you a while I'm measuring this. You know the walking coolers and freezes that it's panelized construction is basically an insulated panel gets locked together so we can make it any size we need it to be within the footprint we have and what I'm trying to say is we can make the cooler smaller than the freezer or vice versa we can we have flexibility you know how it's divided up how the ratios work, but right now the cooler, the cooler is eight feet wide by nine feet deep. So, once you go into doors nine feet to the back eight feet wide, and then the freezer is slightly wider. And yeah john and Tim what we can do is maybe put the dimensions on this you know we'll just give you the kitchen, Mike with all the dimensions and issue it as part of the meeting notes that will be helpful. Yeah we'll be helpful. And another thing we will do when we review this plan with you Mike we will have the dimensions of the shelving unit itself on the shelf. So you can see well with this shelf is four feet wide or this shelf is three feet wide or six feet, you know, you'll be able to at least get a sense of what what it is and how tall it is so that you can make your assessment. And we wait and again we could talk about the ratios. Okay great. Rupert did you have a last question or questions. Yeah, I just forgot to mention that from a facilities viewpoint, we tend to be in favor of the, the movable equipment cleaning reasons. So just throwing that two cents in thanks. So down I did, should we move on at this point. Yeah, yeah I think so I think I think Mike, you're good and then, you know, conversations. John, Jonathan we go through this committee or, you know, could be considered a working session between the two gurus kitchen gurus might, you know, we can sit down we can even come out Mike if it's easier but we'll get you this information. Sean I think said he'll get us the images of the serving the salad trays. Yeah, Michael. That would be great. Yeah, that would be great. And we'll go from there I think just collectively although we're going to be jumping into the cafeteria, moving the doors on the chair storage so that they're immediately to your right when you enter seems to be a better solution. Mike, I do want to point out those circles that you're seeing there. Those are columns. Just, just as you start thinking about that. Okay, just so you unfortunately we need those to support the upstairs which will be the media center. And just let's start thinking about john so so when do we start kind of providing some cuts and and maybe just even letting Mike start thinking about that during this phase the design development. Yeah, so we will start to assign a number. We'll refine this plan will assign a number to each piece of equipment. And then that number corresponds to the schedule that we will prepare, as well as to this cut book that we will, we will generate that that you can thumb through and actually see what what what the piece is. So that will be coming in the coming weeks. Thank you guys. Thanks for. Yeah. Talk to you guys soon. Thank you. Take care. Bye. And then Jonathan, I think. We lose. I heard some peeing, which suggested. Mike, Mike, Mike was back. I'm here. And Mike Gallo, if you do have any time to stay on I, we wanted to talk about the cafeteria the use of it. How that is laid out as it relates to the state we're calling it a platform, just because it's only got a few risers but the stage. And then the connection to the music and we want to make sure that we have all of that as desired or if we need to continue and further work on that. So, Tim, we were, we have Mike on Mike, were we able to get in the music folks at this meeting. We were not, I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. There's a district training on genocide education today and that doesn't have to do with music, but it means that we are ability to have some, it's a, it's a large training with teachers in the district and it's sort of compromise our ability to get coverage for folks. Okay. And I don't, I think Tammy probably had a drop off to give coverage to some folks maybe. Yeah, that's okay. So, Tim, then. Yeah, the things we I was going to say the things that we wanted to discuss were big picture so Mike I think you can answer the way we have the platform and the practice room set up, they will be entering through the cafeteria doors. There is a ramp that gets you to the level of the platform and the practice rooms behind and then a door for acoustic isolation. From the general practice area there is also an operable partition here so you have the three practice rooms. Plus the stage area which could be a large practice space or almost a secondary classroom. One of the questions that we have is one does working with the common entrance of the cafeteria work for the way that the school has to function. We assume that there's not going to be much in terms of music practice happening during lunch but we don't know so we just want to confirm that. And then getting in now doesn't disrupt it for any of the functions either lunch for music music for lunch, and that we don't need to reconfigure either the ramp or the doors just because that would have an acceptable effect on the other program elements so we just want to confirm that the overall flow of the adjacent, how things are next to each other is going to work. So we don't have to. Yeah, I don't see. I mean, it looks like there's an assess and look at the bottom right hand corner, there's an accessible entrance up and potentially through the back as well. There is a ramp here. And the second means would be via the stairs but you are covered with the ramp at this end. Right yeah no I mean we would not typically that this continues our current practice which is ensemble groups typically don't don't occur during lunch blocks and that's not just because of the noise factor it's because it'd be really hard to figure out with how you can't pull kids, you know. For me that looks fine. You know, and we talked about this originally I mean, making acoustic privacy in that space, the price tag on it was significant and you know just not where to put my dollars at this point. Yeah, Tim, could you just slide the screen over so we can see the there you go. Right. And we have the other music room set behind the practice rooms. Yeah. And I think, and I'm pretty sure Mike but now will be the time to quadruple check. We're calling them practice rooms but they're really right. Associated music programs, if those spaces are sufficiently sized, and that the three is the desirable we know we're locked in with the overall square footage, but the question is, if, if this is I know we have spent a lot of time on this and we've looked at it we we've received others comments and this really was the desired layout location. Another thing to note for everyone's benefit is you'll see the storage or boxes up against the platform, the amount of equip instruments that you have is amazing. I mean, and that that's a compliment right. So we don't, we strategically put those there because we really are trying to leave them the spaces themselves for function of the program rather than stick them, you know, have all of these shelves and everything. We also would give students an opportunity to enter in the morning, and they could technically bring their equipment or their instruments up and put it along the back as well right, or do we have to create an area for students to leave their belong, you know their instruments or whatever just as as we're thinking through a day in the life of a student like they come in right. So I can give my thoughts, I do wonder if you can capture some of these aspects with the square footage that you know the instrumental music teachers because they're really good at getting back to us. Because like the two three, two versus three, you know, we'd have to know the size, you know, for most of the instruments, you know, students do bring them back and forth, but not all right and there's just some instruments like cellos and things like that that are just, you know, you have a fourth and carry a cello back and forth, not going to make it the bus. So, you know, it's sort of a mixed bag with with that but I think this makes sense you have the square footage handy on the current, the three practice rooms. They're 200 square feet each. Yeah, so. So they're not they're, they're generous. Right. Well, yeah. On the by the beholder I suppose. Yes, no, no, no compare. Right, right. And the MSB and the MSBA world. Right, right. No, no, no. But I mean, so 600 feet to play with, I would guess that they would do three smaller group rooms than two rooms that are 300 but I think, if you can give me just clear language on that I can get it off and that groups a group that responds really quickly. Yeah, I think that that was their desire originally. I think so, but I think it's confirmed because I know you're getting to the point where you need like decision decision like fix the move on. So I'm sorry I wasn't able to get folks here today but if you're No, no. That's okay the platform I don't see. You know the original question I mean I think that's the way it's going to go I can't see us courting that off of the acoustic wall. It's not what we currently do and I can't see us investing in that to do it that way it's, it's also just like having been in Lexington just has a really nice flow to have it open like that and we'd want to have that for more casual group performances and you know we use it now even some of the schools use it for, you know, at lunchtime having, you know, videos up and things like that in a way that's more flexible. So it makes a lot of sense to me. But but Mike just just to confirm make sure I understood what you were saying we will still provide that movable partition right along the front of the platform. In the case that you do want to use a platform as a separate music space or you're suggesting don't bother. Can you say that maybe it's probably just me and my. No, it could be me to go ahead Tim you want to. So what this shows and what is currently in the budget is an operable partition here switch operated that would open and close. Right. But if you're saying that is not necessary, which I think I'm hearing you say we could take that out and essentially use those resources elsewhere. You know, I do think it get does get used when we have plays and performances just yeah I'm hesitant to get rid of it all together I guess I was just saying that I wasn't looking for a switch operated thing that could be used where you can't hear the cafeteria. I think some separation would be good because people do use it at that time I just, I know I'm referring back to an earlier meeting where you met with staff and they're like, we want to have like a removable wall where you can't hear anything on either side and just I know that's not sort of reasonable but I think having the ability to do some separation whether it's like I guess what are the options, let me ask that a little differently. So the options are, I mean if you really want to do the full spectrum that there's a curtain, which would visually break it off but you have almost no, you have minimal sound separation. What we currently have in is an operable partition, so they they do make switch operate they do make manual ones, and they do vary in terms of the amount of sound that they stop. They don't specify or currently are carrying, call it a middle of the road one, it is electrically operated, and it does have, you know, good sound attenuating but it's not an absolute. But it's a wall, it's absolutely a wall, if there wasn't an ensemble practicing on the platform. You could hear it, but it wouldn't be loud for lack of a better. I see what you're saying no I think if that can be done. It would be great I mean one of the things that's come up. In other times and I know we have that sort of separate stairs chair staging area and office and things like that but just for a quieter space for some kids eat lunch I think of neuro diverse students who want to be connected to lunch but may need a quieter environment I heard that you know I know Tammy's, I don't believe Tammy's on the call still so I think there's a real benefit there, and I'm sorry I misunderstood the front end of the conversation. And the operation of these walls is simple in for lack of a better word. If you only wanted the wall close when you were in fact using it as practice secondary classroom. So you would simply close the door and the rest of the time, but you know additional seating and cafeteria display, it could be open that yeah that would be that would really be ideal. And again I'm sorry I missed the beginning part of it but if we're able to do that it provides us a lot of flexibility not just the music I mean I'm actually thinking about. So lunch options as well as instructional options that could be achieved by that, just given the population of this school and just what I currently see in some of the other schools that works for students with sort of like partial inclusion. As well as the other pieces you mentioned so my apologies for missing that. But yeah, I would like to keep that I think that's a net benefit for kids. I agree just just for clarity. What you're showing a plan here is really both things, you've got a wall but in front of that you also have a curtain. If that is correct correct. And we would intend to keep both Jonathan right the curtains for performances yeah and then we have curtain. Along the back as as right you see the Ziggs background. Yeah. Yeah. And the stage or the AV for the stage is typically a rear projection system with sound and everything which is controlled by the panels on the platform or stage. Tim or Rick I'm pretty sure that's how it functions right. Okay. I don't see that that Sean and and Mike have hands up I don't know if those are just from, from, I had a few questions, but Mike, Mike was first I think. Mike, do you have a question or or was your hand at me. Oh no, that was from before I think I just had a few questions. I assume Jerry will take a look at all this and sort of Jerry the director and make sure, you know, give us feedback on sort of the mechanics of the different spaces and what he thinks might need to be there from a technology perspective, or maybe he already has. Yes Jerry, I mean, he's on a medical leave he'll be back two or three weeks. Full disclosure on that if you do need something sooner. Cody, who's the assistant technology director could jump in. Cody is a lot less he's fabulous. He has a lot less experience in this kind of scale items. So if you need sooner I can get to Cody, we can wait two weeks. I think it's worth to wait. Now I can wait and Sean thank you for pointing that out we have talked big picture. Yeah, but as we do get into the details we want to make sure that we're specifying the right equipment. So thank you. Yeah. And the rear projection screen and projector in technology world is typically a part of the building construction budget. I'm not specified with that because they're built in. Part so I get the benefits of the partition I will say partitions in my experience are like almost like skylights. They break a lot and often don't get used as often. I know we were looking to take some partitions down because they wouldn't work. And again the age but when they're not used a lot it seems like they tend to break more often because they just you know they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing so the partitions that you guys have used in your experience that have you had any mechanical issues with them. No, and I think your, your experience is absolutely correct if your world is Jim partitions. Yes, that's that's the experience. Yeah, which is why when we divide gyms we've almost exclusively use drop curtains. But room dividers haven't been a problem and and our users have enjoyed the flexibility. Okay, great. And then two other little questions. I'm just trying to make sure I understand sort of the, the height so with that main lobby is it going to be like a slow drop down to the cafeteria. I'm trying with the ramp going up to the platform trying to get a sense of the different sort of heights of the cafeteria versus the platform versus the practice rooms the music room that kind of thing. So if we're talking about the floor plane, not the ceiling plane. Yeah, the floor plan all of this with the exception of the platform these practice rooms and the ramp is level. Okay, so those will be elevated the practice rooms and the okay. And this is 18 inches above the rest of the floor other than that the entire first floor is at the same elevation. Okay, that kind of answers my final question which was, would there be any benefit to having access from the music room into the practice rooms. Just for that sort of connectivity between those areas but it seems like if you did you'd have to have steps up to it. Yeah, actually, you know, Sean, we spoke with the music folks and they actually preferred not to. Okay. It, you know, you've got additional doors which then limit limit the use in every door or even just use you have to keep that area clear. And they were saying that they don't typically wouldn't have a you're going to have a single music teacher in the music classroom, and, and the practice rooms would be used by other teachers not necessarily it wouldn't be them or not simultaneously so they don't need to be in those places at the same time. Yeah, so so this maximizes the square footage use of the practice rooms. And then also the flow over to the platform and all the storage that's required for for the programs. Thank you. Yeah, but thank you for asking. All right, jump in one more time just and I might have come up when it was gone are we done in terms of cafeteria and kitchen like I'm just thinking about yellow and whether he can get off to the rest of his day. Have a nice day Mike yellow. Have a nice day. Thank you for everything. Do you want to jump into the be Jonathan. Sure. Yeah, because I think we've kind of covered everything on in the kitchen music performance zone. Let me ask one quick question to how this is more just for personal information but how tall is the kind of proscenium opening is that really really a proscenium opening but you know how tall is that that panel wall. We're going to move the head of the opening will probably be about 12 feet above the floor we don't have it detailed there are changes in the ceiling plane here with this. You know the perimeter of the cafeteria being lower the height of the main space being about 13 and then the opening about 12 feet above the floor so it's it's. I want to say is modest or appropriately scaled for theatrical space but appropriate for what we have. And Jonathan to that point we'll we'll start talking about what the space will look like you know how we're going to define the stage area etc but that kind of just brings us back to where we last left off was as part of the discussion. We reduced the height of the building so which takes us to the be and here we are. There are two other parts of the discussion one for the site which will touch on later in the site meeting for those that will be there. One of the VE elements that we exercised accepted for the building itself were shown in all of the videos that I know all of you have seen so the latest iterations of the videos had the building height reduced it had the changes and materials that we accepted. The videos of the interior had the changes and glazing the one item that was not shown, though, we did accept a slight reduction in the gymnasium exterior glazing and what these drawings I am pulling up are showing are the quantity and not necessarily the layout. It was a 30% reduction in the glazing at the exterior of the gym. And you can see here. The red area is represents 30% of the blazing. Right now this shows a reduction on the east and west clear story at maintaining the south for a glare situation that's going to be the best option your son is going to be high when it's up the south. And if we left that glass on the east and west. You could get glare situation on the side baskets. That being said, this is just a quantity of the glass that we're going to roof, you know, for the purpose of an evenness of light within the gym will probably retain some somewhere on the east and west side, but we just wanted to let you know that. As we develop the design, there will be a little less glass on the gym. It represents the only the change that has not been previously demonstrated in the videos that we've all been seeing since January. You know, the impacts of the be are a bit more tangible and move things a bit around more when you get outside but we'll discuss that in the site. And then if there are any other questions, but that's all that we really have to show on on the be. Okay. I don't have any questions thanks for the update on that. I'm good. So Donna was there anything else that that you were your team wanted to go over or should we move on to public comments. I think that is it. As Tim referenced a lot of the reductions and costs really occurred out on the site and what we want to do is every week there's some specialized spaces that we're really going to want to focus on but, you know, future conversations about the cafeteria really will be like how are we going to celebrate the stage and what that design is going to look like, et cetera. But I think for now, Tim, you're, you're good. I mean, you're just, as Donna's saying, looking forward, you know, we just started DD last week there's not a whole lot of new material for us to dig into this week is just confirming and making sure that the direction we're moving from here is correct. As we're, you know, not moving big pieces any round but with each subsequent meeting there's going to be more and more new stuff to evaluate, consider and, and get feedback on. So this group will meet again. We have quite a few groups but this group will meet again I think in two weeks. Next, next week, next week, next week, sorry. And I think the agenda is the live library. And the STEM STE, Science Tech Engineering space. And Mike, with that, before we just jump to public comment. I don't know if you want to have an offline conversation about who's going to participate in that. Yeah, no, let's let's chat offline so that we get the right people in the room. Hopefully, major trainings that day in our district so it freezes up a little bit. Yeah. So yeah, let's let's follow up offline and we can make a list and make sure people get invited and hopefully people are able to swing it. Awesome. Thank you. So Jonathan floor is yours. Well, we're actually going to turn the floor over to anyone in our attendees I see that Rudy has his hand up and I'm going to a lot try to allow him to talk and hopefully this works. Rudy, can you. Hi, can you hear me. Yes. Okay, great. Thanks. This is very helpful discussion. I'm really glad to see your pitching consultant is really focused on energy issues as part of the criteria for equipment selection. He's, he mentioned that he has a wattage budget that he looks at as well as his dollar budget. And I wonder if that could be shared at some point and some notes on how that was generated. And I'm wondering if we can use that kind of approach and other systems in the building. And where if those numbers have come from other school kitchens. I hope that we're looking at induction ranges as part of the possibility for equipment I would assume so from his discussion. But I know that that will cause some operational changes in terms of cookware. There's been some concern about possible health impacts for people with pacemakers so there might need to be a review of staff. And I would think you'd want staff to comment on the type of cooking and whether the cook where they have and the way they cook is amenable to induction range cooking I hope so. In the basis of design and building narrative, you had some really good comments I thought about how the cafeteria is going to be on the backup power circuit so that it could be used for temporary storage I think that's temporary shelter. And I think that's really important, but will be maximized in impact if there are plenty of let's throughout the wall perimeter of the cafeteria because I think charging phones is going to be one of the main shelter needs and communication. And I also wonder if the gymnasium could be included I don't think it was in the backup circuitry. Because that's the other big space right there. And if I was designing a building to get double duty for temporary shelter purposes, I would make sure that gymnasium was also on that circuit and that it also had lots of electrical outlets around the perimeter. And then, on that matter I know this isn't quite on topic. For today's discussion but bathrooms are going to be the other thing needed for shelter purposes and I believe there's only one inside the one public bathroom inside the this wing of the building and I'm wondering if a second door down past the other first floor of the educational wing might be looked at as a possibility so that in a pinch, you could include, you could lock down classroom doors and then use the full length of the hallway or part of the length of the hallway the educational wing on the first floor, as a bathroom space for your shelter purposes. And then finally, I think I had one. Oh, on induction ranges. There's some experimental ranges coming out on the West Coast I don't think they made it to the East Coast of induction ranges with battery backup included, and it has the advantage for residents is a bumping up power but for our purposes. That might mean that the ranges serve as a secondary during power outages serve as a way to keep some minimal cooking and heating facilities available in the kitchen, without necessarily having to route them through the, the whole generator back up. Overall on shelter. I think if you could, you'd want the kitchen, the gym and the cafeteria all in your backup power circuitry so that it really becomes a highly functional temporary refuge or temporary shelter that could provide limited hot food or coffee and that kind of thing as well as a lot of power outlets for residents who might have to shelter there. So, thanks a lot this looks like a really great start please keep focusing on equipment energy use and the different, not just in the kitchen but elsewhere thanks. Thank you really. Do we have anyone else would like to make public comment today. Maria, let's see if I've done that right again. Maria, you hear us or can we hear you. I hope so. Hi guys. Just one quick question and I assume that you've already that this is already done but when you're talking about decreasing the amount of glazing and you know by that and sorry I'm on a phone so I can't see what you're doing. I assume that that means that there are literally less windows in the gymnasium, then was originally there, and just to reassure everybody that's thinking about having enough light and the gym would that reduction still allow for most of the time having not needing to turn on lights in the gym and you know, at least during daylight hours of course that you could minimize the use of electricity to have good lighting in the gym. Thanks. Thank you. Any other public comment. I think that is it's then and I don't think we had any unanticipated matters to come up in the last 48 hours. And so I think I can adjourn us at this point. Very good. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Good rest of your day. Yep.