 Duke has got the fastest growing parts within Apache that they've ever seen, even over the web server, back in the day. What are you seeing out there that's projects like, that's got real growth, thermal energy. Well, we're definitely seeing huge traction and interest in the big data dynamic caching stuff. If you go over to the Java 1 booths today, walk around the booths at the exhibit floor and you'll see that all of the big data players have mad traction at the booths. I mean, they just got big traction. More so than your framework guys, more so than some of the more tool-y utility type of people. I mean, look, they're all getting bad traction. Is that because it's real or is it just because it's new? I think it's because everybody's boss said you better go to the show and find out. Figure out what it is. I gotta roll. But guess what? Take it from here. Thanks, John. Thanks for hanging in. Thanks for chatting with you. Sorry, I split so fast. But it is getting big traction. The other thing is, for us, is the lightweight. It's got to be very, very light. Tomcat had so many great things about it, so many attributes, but the biggest one was lightweight. So as we take application server to that level and make it that lightweight, it's almost a no-brainer. So you're talking about the interest in big data. You're talking about ElastiCache specifically? Well, we're primarily focused on ElastiCache from a Red Hat perspective right now, from a product perspective. But our goal is not to be exclusive of that. If you look at what OpenShift is doing, they're working with a number of the NoSQL players like Mongo and other players like that. So on the cloud side, we're starting to really develop some strengths in the ecosystem there. But from a product perspective, definitely on ElastiCache. Well, and you guys, it was about a year ago, you threw your hat into the pass ring, right? Last summer? What do you mean, when we announced the pass? The platformers of service? Yeah, when we announced OpenShift for a pass, we announced that in, well, we formally announced it in May at JBoss World and Red Hat Summit, but it was an acquisition we made last year. Right, right, that's right. And so, let's talk about that a little bit. It's a crowded field. Yeah. I mean, Microsoft is there, you guys are there, Google is there, Amazon, VMware, just announced Cloud Foundry, that's where we get a lot of talk anyway. So help us squint through that. What's going on there? What are customers doing with pass? How real is it? How do you guys differentiate? Let's talk about some of those things. Sure, sure, sure. Well, let's start with how real is it? We think it's very real. It's, in a lot of ways, has the same attraction that Open Source had all those years ago. I'm a developer, I need to get my job done. I want to be productive. How do I be productive? Well, it used to be I'd download a project, put it on my machine, start coding. Now it's, I don't need to put it on my machine, I can just run it in the cloud. I can do a git push, put an app out there from my IDE and start using it and testing it. We're seeing... OGLLs? Yeah, that's simple, right? So it's really, so we think that's very real, it's very attractive. But that said, it's a pretty crowded field and how are we differentiating, what are we doing? Well, the first thing we did was we were the first pass to ship an EE stack, right? So we came out with a J Boss and put it in the pass and, you know, we announced that in August. So we were number one in that list and came right out swinging with it and that's gotten really a lot of attraction because what we saw was PHP and Ruby, big time in pass, no Java. So how do we accelerate Java in the pass, which is a big goal for us, was to put our mainline project out there, which is AS7, so. In terms of what we see going out there, we're seeing so many unique cases. So our typical customer, right? From a subscription standpoint, is like an enterprise place, like, you know, a Geico or New York Stock Exchange, those are all customers of ours. But when you go back to Paz, we're seeing like services companies come to us say, you know, this is my new prototyping platform. I go to a customer and I want to build a solution. I'm going to start here in the Paz and build it. That way I can minimize my investment and get the customer what they want and then if they like it, they can either bring it on premise because it's running on our application server or they can upgrade it to our more management-friendly options like Flex. So these services companies are flocking to it and really getting some good use out of it. Now what we're starting to see is other organizations come to us and starting to talk to us about it because they're very large and they're almost like services companies within IT. So it's starting to kind of become this shared services. It's like what the vision was all those years ago when they started talking about hosting and all that other stuff 10 years ago, right? It's finally coming together. And you mentioned trying to get Java traction going within your environment. How's that going? And what about PHP and Ruby and other development environments? How are you guys handling that? So, well, let's just start with when we put OpenShift out there, the goal was to support everybody, right? So it started with PHP and Ruby so there was no problem with that. The Java traction was is that we had seen an opportunity in the market to take advantage of that. So we did and we obviously have a great job application service. Why not? So we're not pushing one over the other so much. However, we obviously want people to do it. You're not saying here's Python, you got to write to it. Yeah, exactly. But yet, when VMware announced Cloud Foundry, it says we are the first to essentially do what you just described. Was that just BS marketing? No, no, I wasn't BS marketing. We were the first to do it with the spec. They're the first to do Java as a general sense with Spring. We were the first to do E6. So that was our goal and that's what we set out to do was to stick with the spec. Now, if the nice part about AS7 is if you got a little bit of Spring code, you can put on AS7 and it works. So we're not just, you know, EE was the announcement, right? But the story is Java in the Cloud and that's what we're trying to push. There's a lot of players out there, but so far so good. We're getting good traction with it. Yeah, good. So put on your, you know, take your telescope out. Tell me what you see in this whole application development field over the next five years. What's the environment going to look like? How's it going to be different? Well, first off, you know, it's going to be huge in terms of the SOA stuff. We haven't even hit the, we haven't even hit the tip of the iceberg with applications because what'll happen is is that as we move towards the Cloud, people are going to start to consume these services. Service oriented architecture's really made for the Cloud. So that's really exciting. It was finally here. Well, no, a lot of people have taken, I think it lowers the barrier to consumption. That's what it really comes down to. If you were a big company, you had a SOA already, right? But if you were maybe a mid-sized company or whatever, maybe it was too expensive, you know, or the migration was too much. With the Cloud, you kind of have that built into it, right? And the reason you're going to need that is because of security, because of your data's going to live in multiple places. It's because, you know, you're going to have issues with things like wanting to buy for multiple Cloud providers. You might not want to put all your eggs in one basket. Just like, you know, put all your eggs in one hardware. Build your own Cloud stack. You're going to build your own stack, right? And then what's going to happen is over time, long term, you're going to see somebody's going to have a full stack. And, you know, they're going to migrate to that. And that's, you know, where the battle will be fought. The big vendors are being a little bit more cautious about this. We're kind of in between. We're not a startup. We're pretty big, you know, a billion dollar company. So we're being a little bit more aggressive. And I think that's going to work out pretty well for us. Excellent. All right. Well, listen, Jason, I really appreciate you coming by, taking time out of your busy schedule all over across the street. And you're a great guest. We'd love to have you back on. Great. Well, we'd love to have you at the show. I'm in Boston. Oh, OK, us too. And maybe we'll have you come out in June. Absolute lifelong.