 Oh what's up everybody once again is brand man Sean and as you can see yet again I have a very special guest I'm really excited about this right here because she's gonna tell you guys what you need to hear not necessarily what you want to hear as being creative so or even just some of the business people in game but this is a Tira she is an entertainment IP and business attorney so all of that legal stuff that you guys have a lot of those legal questions you run into about not getting your stuff stolen and a whole lot of other random stuff she would she would be able to tell you in spade is a trustworthy source right here however I don't believe what do you guys say you can't take this as legal advice don't you guys have like a disclaimer this is not a legal competition there we go not technically legal advice there we go but a brand man if you want to hold up in court so what's good I'm happy to have you here I appreciate you first and foremost tell everybody just well just how did you get started like did you already know that you wanted to be an entertainment lawyer from the job or did you like start on the artist side or something okay so interestingly I've been running around because I was seven years old telling people that I wanted to be a good thing for a judge it didn't technically work out that way as you can see but I'm always aspired to be you know in the law in some way shape or form I switched over to entertainment while I was in college I have an undergraduate degree in mass communications from Clark Atlanta University and it was while I was there that I met so many people that were in radio TV film that were producers that were just doing a lot when it came to the entertainment world and specifically I had a friend who pretty much dropped out in order to do a deal pretty much and the deal fell through because he had no idea what he was finding and that pretty much inspired me to get into entertainment law because I realized that I could use my the talent and the aspirations that I already wanted to use which was you know being an attorney and make it one relatable and also like helpful to the people around me because these were already my friends so I really just wanted to figure out how I can help them while doing what I wanted to do in the first place anyway but okay so it was pretty organic for you what was that first situation like if you give any detail on that as far as how you yeah why why did it fall through it fell it didn't fall through he got paid off of it but he didn't get paid as much as he should okay so he kind of just burnt through the money and then was like oh what am I supposed to do now and it's like if he would have known what to negotiate in our contract he would have been set for life off of that one song oh man it was one of those it was one of those it was like a very and because the the advance amount was so much you know he got excited but what he wasn't really banking on or what he wasn't really taking into account was the back end which is publishing and walletry and because he didn't get so much on that you know he was kind of left I guess he was saying running around our campus he was one of those stragglers that was just around our campus just there to be there just because you know he used to go there but he dropped out and he couldn't get back in whatever reason and yeah I think he pretty much grew away at scholarship so yeah it was hard for him to get the scholarship back okay dang all right well like one thing you mentioned was publishing how can you best describe publishing to people because it's a confusing subject for a lot of artists I know even sometimes right here talk about it sometimes it makes me feel like I'm missing form so don't feel bad it took me almost a full year to figure out how this works but the best way that I can describe it is publishing is based off of what what the physical manifestation of the song in a beat so that would be the actual written lyrics and the actual notes like you know you can look at a musical composition and it has music notes and you can write a song out and read the music and it's on a physical piece of paper so publishing is pretty much quantifying that physical thing does that make sense almost you're saying you're saying it has to be written down it doesn't have to be but the best way to think about it is that it's the physical benefit it's like how else how do you quantify physical manifestation of a digital product you can't really it's hard to kind of wrap your head around so that's why I say the lyrics and the and the notes and that's the easiest way that I can say that that's where that's what they're trying to quantify got it all right so when people use portions of that whatever the proportion of that's the parts that's the money that you make but when people use portions of that physical manifestation correct yes and that is the master for the master the master use and the composition use are two different things the master is using the composition so one of the uses of the composition is the math but then there's often other uses like licensing like if you want to license your the lyrics to somebody or if you want to license the beat to somebody if you want to license a portion of the song to somebody you need both the master you need permission from for both the master use and the composition use which is the underlying physical thing got you okay so that brings to make me think about something that so many artists like always ask me or I just see in comments or I might be at a festival or something now I always hear this question artists are so afraid of getting their music stolen right but you know of course there's some legal legal actions that they can take to do things on the front end of course there's some things they can do in the back end but a lot of the things that I might hear somebody like you say as far as they should do this or that particularly for the front end a lot of artists say I don't have enough money or I don't like I'm not making money so can I just do this whole poor man's put it in the envelope or well or I put it on YouTube where I put it out first so now I can take action it's mine I hear artists try to take those free routes or if some some less cost-effective what's the actual cost-effective way that artists can actually get it done the most that you can do is put what is called a copyright disclaimer so like I tell my producers whenever they're sending out beats even if they having copyright in them copyright in them the right way they can put what's called a copyright disclaimer in the signature of their emails when they're sending these out that pretty much just they hey you know this is my work I created it on such a such day I'm sending it to you for the purpose of maybe you know creating some kind of collaboration but you're not allowed to use it outside of listening to it right now that is the sensible because pretty much what happens is you have the right to your in you have a copyright right as soon as you create something so as soon as you create something new or unique in a fixed form or fixed and tangible form which is reporting it or writing it down or however you can fix it in a tangible form once you do it it's yours it's just proving that that's the issue so the copyright is like a prima facie way to say that this is mine that the recognizes so without it you can still have a claim it's just harder to prove that it's yours got you okay and I remember here you talk about when you have copyright forms let's say if you have beats or songs and things of that nature too how you can put a lot of songs on one form you don't have to just do one song at a time right that's correct so a lot of people like to do a first project but you don't have to do with her project I would say put whatever amount that you have just make sure that you catalog it properly so that you can remember which you know which application you put it on and what the name of it is and all of that but one sound recording application can there's like an unlimited number of mp3s or mp4 formatted things that you can upload to the website underneath that one application so I could do like 500 of them for like have a bunch of costs is it like $50 $155 yeah all right I mean see for that to me it's like not really much of an excuse like if you can't come across $50 to protect your own business correct I agree and I mean you know people make hundreds and hundreds of beats so I understand how that can get you know annoying but if you turn it into a habit and just doing it like every couple of months or every you know three months every six months every nine months everybody has a different you know depending on how often you create beats but I would just say come up with a form a way to do it and I mean look as as a producer if you have your LLC and your copywriting your work you can deduct that in taxes because it's like something that you have to do in order to make money with your business as a LLC providing production services so I mean there's a lot of incentive as to why you should be able to or why you should um do it okay that makes that makes sense and just well all type of artists that you work with by the way do they just produce series engineers or they know I work with mixed media artists I work with music artists I work with artists I do nothing but I work with dancers I work with influencers anything that that involves creating your own content regardless of what it is I can help you okay got you and like so I think the biggest difference that well no I was asking what's the biggest difference between an entertainment lawyer and some of these other general lawyers or attorneys that we hear out there it's literally just jargon and experience so an entertainment lawyer we're all we're doing really is managing your businesses which is just like a typical corporate or business attorney the only thing that's different is the entertainment specific jargon and the entertainment specific uh I guess uh fractions are the things that we need to calculate percentages so that's really the only difference between me and an corporate attorney we're doing the same things which is like forming companies um operating agreements you know like trademarking your name or your brand name or whatever your company's name but what makes it different is what we're quantifying and how okay now when would I come to somebody like you uh do uh yeah do how do I add somebody like you onto my team doesn't even work like that well what I like to say is you come to me when you have something for me to look at so that's somebody you know is trying to contract you to do something or I'm a transact what we call a transactional attorney so you don't need me until there's a transaction whether the transaction whether the transaction is between somebody who wants to transact with you or you want to transact with them got it so it's like if I'm selling to me if it does act to me quite for sure but it's but come to me if you have something like a specific groups for those questions that those are like don't come to me and be like hey um I just want to pick your brain about the industry and how it works no it's not like that it's more like a hey somebody um presenting me with this contract I don't know what it means can you explain it to me or hey I want to you know start a production services company how do I do that you know those are the kind of questions that can you do those are the kind of questions that will help facilitate growth pretty much so to give you a actual problems to solve versus foremost yes okay yeah exactly I mean I like that because you could very easily just waste people's money and say all right I'm gonna take this shit and answer your questions that aren't gonna really get you anywhere but so you but you'd like to see progress out of your clients it sounds like absolutely all right well to kind of digress a little bit you are I mean you're young you're a young black woman you're you're killing it from like everything that I've heard in the people that I know that have known you you know what I mean which is dope and I admire it so like how did you get to this and what what was yeah what were your struggles being what you are in your space because you one thing that I really liked about you when we met was how you have your own way of doing things you don't really submit to the conservative way of even dressing or jargon all those types of things how did that even what made you make that decision in first place and then I was born that way I was born this way no seriously um I've been a defiant not not a problem child but I've been a defiant child from the very beginning always question why things were a certain way because I knew that you know if you can do it this way that means that there's an opposite way and if there's an opposite way that means that there's a great area of place that we can do this that's how I've always thought so um I've also realized that as an individual people are gonna like you or not like you regardless of what you're doing whether you're doing it exactly how they want you to do it or not doing it anyway at all somebody's gonna have something to say about it so I figured hey I'm just gonna do it my way neither you rock with it or you don't and if you don't that's fine I will free you out it's that simple hey so what have you had any like specific situations where they're just memorable where you felt like because of you're choosing to be a little bit more non-traditional or progressive at your end absolutely I would say the most pivotal one of the reasons why I knew I was doing something right was I had this artist out of Alabama that one of my engineers introduced me to because he was like hey you know I think he's an attorney and um that's another thing I just do really good work I don't advertise really the most I have is my Instagram you know I have a small website and it wouldn't just have my contact information on it and that's the specific and I did that for a reason one I don't like working with people that I don't like I literally am my own company so that I don't have to work with anybody that I don't like I think that on purpose two all of my clients are word of mouth it's either you know somebody told you that something I did for them or I'm in a situation where it becomes relevant and I talk about it and they're like I need you um otherwise I don't want it to be honest because you know for what one I don't know you I don't know if I'm gonna like your stuff unless we develop a relationship and two just makes my life so much easier it makes my life so much easier because like my clients and my friends you know I support them I'm a huge music person I'm a huge just artistic person I love going to shows I love exhibits installments I love installation I love you know look that's my thing I'm always out on the scene regardless of what's going on so that kind of created its own it kind of became its own thing out of out of just the fact that I love to do it anyway but um oh sorry I was just gonna say to go back to where you were talking about I had this one artist out of Alabama that uh engineer introduced him to me um but he told me that he already had a meeting with an attorney um and I asked him who and he told me her name and I was like oh I know her you know go to her I don't want to you know cause any friction she's a really good attorney you know but if you just you know if you decide to go another way hit me up he calls me a couple of days after because I was actually in the studio with them that day we was in the studio chopping it up hanging out you know I was like giving them creative input you know just being myself and then a couple days later he hit me up and was like hey you know if you're so interested in being my attorney I would really like to work with you and I was like yeah definitely so we had a meeting and the meeting was also at the studio and he's like look I don't know maybe attorneys that are one young and black two will pull up to the studio all times at night if I have a question I'll have an issue of anything going on he's like that is almost unheard of and I really rock with what you're doing and I really like he's like you know I had nothing against the other attorney but I just liked you better I just liked you better that was it and I was like wow it's like I literally just have to be myself and the people who I can hope and the people who I can global are gonna just gravitate to it because that was he was already you know she went with this attorney they already were about to like find an engagement letter do everything that they have to do and he was like no I'm gonna go with the terror and he had only just met me that one night because I was there vibing with him hanging out with him and he on top of that he was like you know sometimes when these attorneys talk to me I don't understand what they're saying he's like but you find a way to uh you find a way to make me understand and I realized it's just literally because my references are references that you guys understand I'm a young attorney so it's like I'm using movies that y'all watched I'm using you know scenarios that y'all are familiar with from TV shows and from whatever just you know to give you an idea of what's going on or how it's gonna work and me being able to translate legally into kind of I guess pop culture speak is what allows me to get you to understand what's actually happening and then reassure you and your decision making because really all I did is read something and I tell you hey you can do this this this or this or that you know based off of my experience and then you get to make those choices but you can't make those choices you don't understand what I'm saying you know yeah see that that's definitely something that I mean that's even something I try to do you know when I talk about marketing a lot sometimes I'm taking some excuse a lot of people know about marketing but sometimes I'm taking some obscure concepts you know that are coming from academia or business some other industry but I like to always try to flip it in to be relatable so I can see how that helps because I know I don't you know what y'all be talking about I can tell when I'm losing somebody like I'll go off and they're just like get this blade what's on their eyes like I don't know what to do so then I'll kind of like you're wearing it back and like okay if you do this it effectively does it or this means that this is what's gonna happen you know usually that that works out and it's also like I said the references like I use movies and TV shows because I'm a huge like I said I'm a huge just anything creative I love movies I love TV and film so all of our references are relatable well career question because you're in a position where as you say you get to what people you like you know you're owning your own business so you don't have to work with people you don't like however you know expanding past a certain level might cause you to work with people you don't like but you do not so what is your career looking like in the long term like if it just continuing to do this maybe we just suggest some more people are on a higher level I don't even know what the entertainment lawyer career path looks like honestly so honestly I am making my own way so there's this is the normal trajectory that people usually have it's either you create your own firm you partner with other people y'all have a bigger firm and they y'all start hiring associates and it becomes like a huge thing um or you practice on your own and then take your clients to an established firm go there you know something like that um me personally I feel like I'm gonna make money like this forever I don't think it's gonna ever be a moment when um I'm gonna one I don't want I don't like any what is that word authority I don't like authority I'm such an authority anti-authority hypocrisy I literally went to law school to learn the rules that you couldn't tell me anything so it's like you can't tell me what I can and cannot do because I know what the rules are and nothing that you're saying applies so you know that's why I did that's literally why I did it and I told my clients you know oh my gosh I was an advocate my I used to be my little brother out of so much stuff just from trying to advocate on his behalf it was not even a joke he was my first client I told him that all the time but um I uh that's literally why I went to law school for real I was just like I can't deal with anybody telling me what I can and cannot do what time I need to come to the office or not you know like just anything anything that I feel like none of that matters when it comes down to my work ethic yeah I know what I'm doing I do it very well I understand it like the back of my hand so regardless of whether I'm purple pink orange black or wearing a suit or you know a jumper what does that even matter but I will just have to go to court and that's just because it's mandatory we don't have a choice it's mandatory it is mandatory for us to dress in certain in business casual or moving to in court I didn't know that okay all right so when it comes to artist right have you do you ever you know all right here's a first a good place to start actually so I had an interview or uh just know the conversation with a guy right and we were just talking about conflict of interest right and he had a scenario where when he was younger he got signed to a label and then the CEO of the label asked to be his manager and then I was talking about a situation of when I just heard about I didn't know a particular situation someone was just telling me how they know situations where the manager's lawyer will try to become the artist's lawyer and things like that and just those areas of conflict how do you how do you feel about that space I don't need scenario where you feel like conflict dangers will be overrated or how do you advise artists build their teams in that way got you so conflicts of interest and entertainment are extremely it's extremely common for example I'll have an artist um I'll be doing contact on the artist behalf but the manager is the one that actually contacted me so I'm doing agreements for the manager I'm doing agreements for the artist technically I kind of represent them both but you're not supposed to that's pretty much how that works out it's like um but the cool thing about being a transactional attorney is that this applies to specific transaction so that's why that's how that's sorry that's how there isn't a competition so for example if I'm doing the management contract for the manager and the artist I let the artist know hey depending on who's on them let's say that I'm on the manager side so I'm doing a management agreement for the manager and the artist right I let the artist know okay I'm doing this agreement on the manager side so you can go get somebody else to look at it on your behalf if you want to I can explain it to you if you would like me to but you have to understand that anything that I'm doing will be for the manager's benefit now but now that same artist right so we get you know get the management agreement done we'll get somebody else to look at it they both sign it so now the artist is going to get signed to a record label the artist goes hey can you represent me on this definitely because that has nothing to do with the manager that transaction is between the artist and the label does that make sense yeah got you so now where it gets convoluted is like for example the manager gets a certain percentage from whatever for whatever reason um and and in that case it's still not a conflict because I'm not negotiating any percentages he's just going to get a percentage of whatever they already agreed on in the other agreement okay so for you it sounds like it's really just a matter of your personal integrity and how you carry yourself as an attorney but it will really be an attorney to attorney basis okay it's literally uh well the best way to say is on a transactional basis so in this transaction I can't represent both sides on one transaction got it okay and you always hear who's side you're on correct now the other side of conflicts of interest you're talking about it's like if I'm an artist and I'm signed to a label like I had an artist that was signed to a Gucci label 1019 or something like that I don't remember but I don't remember right now but um he uh he was pretty much in a management agreement with them uh publishing agreement with them and uh reporting agreement with them and so those income can cause issues in the contract because they'll be like they're getting 20% of this 30% here 50% here you know and so it's like where do the percentage like where do the percentages end or begin they can get really convoluted but there are certain clauses that you know that are very common and that we use that pretty much we call it double dipping it prevents double dipping so me representing the artist I'll go in and I'll be like hey you know you can manage him or you'll get your 20% of everything other than any other contract or any other thing that you do for him as the label or as the publisher so if you're getting a percentage as a publisher then you can't determine a percentage if you're getting a percentage at the label then you can't get your manager's percentage you see what I'm saying and then vice versa okay got it and that's just literally a paragraph that we've put into most of the contract but you wouldn't know to argue that or ask for that unless you have an attorney right because otherwise it's allowed so you basically advise well or maybe it goes without saying you shouldn't sign anything without a attorney absolutely not you don't know what you're looking at unless you up y'all are expensive man we are expensive I think I'm pretty affordable uh and that's just because it's I feel like it's my beauty I don't know I went to Park Atlanta and we have this huge we the we the boy the boy yeah yeah so um yeah we were pretty much ingrained with that whole talented 10th thing where it's like you know you're one of few who's gotten the opportunity to get this far and you owe it to everybody else that looks like you to try to educate them to lift them up like you know I'm thinking about everybody just the opportunity so I try to spread it as far and as glad as I can without going bankrupt to be honest so like I'll work with you like I'm gonna try to work with you if we take the L I'm gonna take an L like I'll give you an example um there's an agreement that I was negotiating we were going back and forth over the percentages or whatever um they ended up taking they ended up getting less of an advance than they anticipated so I charge them so I charge them the different pretty much I charge them uh I don't know how I think I said that wrong I didn't charge them either um it's like okay so because they took left I took left so I was supposed to get a particular um fee but instead of me getting that fee I was like look y'all took an L here so I'm gonna take the L with you you know and like most attorneys aren't gonna do that they're just gonna be like well give me my fee because I did my job you know but um I know what those I know what those advances mean for us you know those are opportunities for us so like I try my heart it's not to be extra about it and even if I did earn it I tell my best not to over the not to over over the burden my time got you that's that's dope like I mean it's one of those reasons why you know I likely hear good things about you and it's also I mean even if it goes back to that scenario you were the guy chose you over the other attorney so little of you because I guess you you know you project that you project that good energy why why is it so hard though do you feel like for artists to get over the hump and to actually get an attorney because they don't see it as necessary at first that's it and that's literally it it's like on their list of priority of things to do you know honestly I'm not gonna lie marketing and advertising needs to be at the top but regardless of that it's like you should be in there too we're on the same level of necessity but most people don't see it that way they see it like what's the point of me having an attorney if I don't have nothing out yet what you know I'm saying or something like that and it's like once you created it you need an attorney because you created it now what are you gonna do with it are you gonna log it to you know are you gonna copyright it are you are you sharing it with somebody and if you are then that's a transaction and they need to be in agreement yeah no so all right with agreement so you mentioned negotiations a few times and especially when it comes to you know the guy who had the contract that inspired you to leave the entertainment industry seriously what aspect do you take in negotiations are you actually if you're with an artist and this is your artist and you might be dealing with the label or whoever are you actually doing the negotiations yourself like saying hey this number we wanted this number or do you allow the artist to do it and you just inform them on what's good or bad that's a great question it depends on the relationship so if it's like a hey I don't know what's going on they just told me that they want to use my song can you let you know can you you know talk to them for me in that type of situation I get all the control and I say this is what we want and y'all let me know if y'all are okay with that you know but sometimes like a lot of artists they have managers and they're managed their manager will negotiate the percentage and in that situation it'll be like a hey this is what we discussed is this cool you know if you want to make any changes let us know but this is what these things specifically are already negotiated so in that sense I don't negotiate any of the percentages or any of the things that they've previously agreed upon I just will try to make the contract more on their side than it is at the moment so I might negotiate something I'll send it over to you because I'm like I'm good this is what I want but you still look at and say you know what about this you still might correct all right all right that's encouraging because I feel like there's a lot of situations that I mean I even I have encountered at times where you know I as far as the negotiation part I might be able to say some basic things as far as those few numbers that I know but it might be that you might not even know what you're giving up or not exactly and those are the easy things that I those are usually the things that I negotiate on my own every single time which is because you wouldn't even know that you could change it but what I tell my clients is everything on that paper is negotiable yeah I remember having an uncle that he he pretty much considers down there everything in life negotiable that sounds like me my kind of guy exactly like everything is negotiable and there's an exception for everything so sure all right so what what is one example of something that was small that you negotiated where previously probably weren't even thinking to negotiate just to kind of give artists an idea what could be out there that they never think of okay so now for the how prevalent social media is for example you know artists have these crazy followings on social media when they sign to a label they give the label authority to to post on those pages to do all kinds of stuff on their pages through and for them but you want to retain that you know you want to retain control over it you want to make you want to retain certain just uh just no that's where yet you want to maintain control over it and a lot of people don't know that you can literally put in the contract okay you know even though you're allowed to do this this and this at the end of the day anything that you post on here is mine well when I leave you I get full control of my account that that's it for most people don't even think to do that I think so like their situation where like a label might post on an account and say hey you can't take this down like they do they do things like that all kinds of things all kinds of controlling things yes also what you guys wouldn't negotiate wouldn't even know negotiate for example the accounting and the accounting because you know they're paying you a portion of whatever money which makes them accountable to do certain things for you are obligated to do certain things for you but most of the time that counting it'll be like you know we'll we'll pay you in like 90 days from that accounting period or 120 days from that accounting period you can shorten those periods and you can say no 30 days you can say no we need to do this and sometimes they go back and forth about it and the only way that I'll give them anything more than 60 days is if um it's in if it's in their uh what is that thing uh their operating agreement or if they just let me know hey you know this is how we account we account semiannually to everybody and you know our business is our business tax or whatever is based off of this model that's the only way that I'll allow them to do it but then you have to explain it to me I have to understand why do you have to say show me some documents let me just show me something or tell me something that's gonna give me a they'll assure my client why they have to wait 90 days to get paid so yeah I definitely know some people that it's stupid long with where they get paid I see that mostly in like I represent a lot of DJs and a lot of artists when it comes to like shows and venues like with the venues and stuff like that and they'll have like these crazy accounting times and you know those are such short two three page agreements but you don't even think about it you're just fine to get your cash but then they're like oh we got a 60 day net or 90 day net you're like I already performed you know I'm saying it's like no pay me as soon as I find this contract that's it she yeah I never heard that I didn't realize people were doing that with shows I thought she was anything they would move faster than no not at all the finesse is everywhere the finesse is real all right so where are you from by the way I'm from Brooklyn New York what made you come come to Atlanta school just for college yeah I watched um what was that what was that it was like a college tour or something on BET college you know it was a black college tour and they put it on BET and I was like oh oh I'm out of here I'm going to that school and I went yo see that makes me think immediately that they need to bring that back man absolutely maybe it inspired me to go to HVCU absolutely that's funny well which part was was it the fact that it looked lit or yes you might have been gonna lie to you it was like oh I could have fun and do work too because I was already a good student it was never about school work for me it was always about who can I talk to you what's going to happen what relationship's going to go got you now before while I think about I don't know what's going to happen my head but I'm glad it did so like for an entertainment lawyer like someone who wants to be who you are how how do you get those first clients when we talk about those real clients of course you can always be running up to a lot of these random artists who say they want to wrap whatever that is but first of all a lot of them are ready they don't even want somebody that early like so how do you really how'd you break into becoming an official I don't want to say official not understand a lot of people say that they're entertainment attorneys and it's like no they actually practice personal injury and they do some style all kinds of crazy stuff so yeah I know what you mean by actual so with me I was very strategic I knew that I wanted to be in it but I had no so what I did I don't know it's going to work for everybody else but what I did was I started just volunteering for music by the year I would go on the festival website see when I could apply to volunteer and I would apply to volunteer every single year all the time whichever ones that I could drive to go to however I was going I met a lot of people and a lot of the relationships that I built those people became my clients or those people like what they got to certain levels like he kind of rose together because like I was in law school when I was doing this stuff so we kind of rose together they were doing their things as a planters and show show creators and stuff like that and I was in law school and by the time I got out you were like here and it's like oh hey and it just worked and it just worked out like that and we'll also throw the internships are pivotal internships and mentorships I literally annoyed the crap out of my mother and so she gave me an opportunity I took her to lunch I talked to her I emailed her I would just send her stuff like hey I'm doing this you know this or hey or um what I like to do because I had a background in journalism is I would do right up you're like hey you should use this for your bio hey she's trying to get in and it's on her team and in her in her mind so by the time she was like oh I want to intern I was the first person that she thought about it but it makes sense so really the two things I'm here for when you start building your relationship early like straight up and then also like that persistence pleasant persistence I imagine pleasant persistence don't be annoying because once you're annoying they're gonna avoid you you have to be it's like make yourself make yourself useful I found a way by doing things that nobody else wanted to do like she was like she was complaining about her file system so I went created a new file system for her which was tedious and annoying for me to do but it's a system she's so used to that you know oh that's small stuff all right small cool so I want to like end with like the one more question about that career thing because I want like you said you'll you'll be doing this type of thing forever well it's like you think you can make money this way forever but so I'm imagining okay yeah you don't want to have other attorneys or anything like that under you but do you have kind of faith where I mean you know you keep bringing in good clients like you are you're going to accumulate a decent amount of money over time obviously so is there something another field you want to get into one day you want to start your own I don't know beauty brand or real estate or what's that look like now I'm sticking to I'm sticking to this but what I'm going to do well this is what I have in the work so far and yeah you tell me how you feel about it actually um so I'm going to create pretty much this a downloadable PDF that lists out what you need to do like it's pretty much going to be a step-by-step step-by-step instructions and it is also going to include a six month or two quarter plan and it's just like if you're an indie artist songwriter producer I'm going to have different ones for different ones for different for the different type and it's going to lay out everything that you need because what I'm starting I'm at the point where I get annoyed when I have to double back and do work as you should have been doing on your own if this is what you want to do and that's like logging your music and logging the percentage you know and who owns what and you know like signing yourself up to a PRO and you know like yeah signing yourself up to sound exchanges like I shouldn't have to write a show after they do this for you when you come to me this should already be done because now I'm helping with these transactions with these people that are trying to pay you and now I have to go back and create LLC I gotta go back and create your uh your ASCAP account I gotta go back and do all this stuff whereas you know I'm saying if you already have this together it makes my life so much easier and of course I charge you for it so you want me to do all of this on top of negotiate your deal for you I'm gonna charge you for that whereas I can give you this I can give you this step by step um pretty much plan that has everything in it that you need for like half of the price that I would charge for an hour you know and you can already have all that stuff all the time it comes in I think you should definitely do that like that's yeah that's easy for one that that's how I create like a lot of stuff that I've done honestly it just because like you said like you don't want to have to double back and do things that they could do themselves but like what you're doing especially in that space because there's so much question around it I mean you get it like that's almost something like before I know I do a consultation with you or something like that depending on what it's like if you come to me and you haven't already done that then I'm not happy with you exactly it's a pretty requisite so now you gotta do that all right let me know when you do it because I will make it know okay yeah I'm working on it right now I have um guard your gifts which is pretty much an instagram account that um because I scour the internet all the time that's for relevant information and just because I know that there's so much information out there y'all don't really know which one's what's good and what's not so on guard your gifts I'm pretty much posting stuff that I find on the internet that's actually correct so like you can literally so you can literally go look at it bookmark it you know save it so that you can go back to it whatever you know from your instagram account and that's just me building up the contents or whatever that I'm going to use for these uh for these plans that I'm going to create yeah I'm about to go ahead and follow that right now because I think I just saw that um when I was on your profile all right but um and so like daily every day I'm going to post one thing that I found on the internet that's actually accurate actually at that part I always wonder because I especially when it comes to what y'all do but they're like how many people get caught there's so much misinformation yes so much misinformation even with marketing people I'm like ah you know but I don't want to take any shot at whoever you got the information from but from my experience oh no I I do that I'm just like who did you hear that from it's wrong you could tell them I said it's wrong and if they have a problem with it tell them to call me because I'm gonna tell them to their face you're dumb and this is wrong all right the New Yorker yeah y'all don't lose that y'all don't lose that my dad's from uh New Jersey and oh yeah notice he he's been here more than I like in Atlanta more of his life than he's been in New York in yeah doesn't matter never come away it don't matter man yeah something wrong with y'all just a little bit I mean hey you need to put balls in times you need to pull out the shark when people are are playing crazy you know that's what I'm here for that part is real okay well hey I appreciate you once again and just so everybody knows of course I'm gonna put all of material's information at the bottom on the screen all that good stuff but what is the best place like just one place that you were like we are already have something to look out for please let me about is that I am addicted to my addicted it's a problem so I answer my ideas I answer questions that I can answer under a minute so if it takes me longer than a minute can't answer it and you have to pay me and that's like I'm glad you said that people need to hear that say it one more time under a minute so if there's something that I can type out in a hundred and fifty characters or less cool I'll send it to you I'll try to you know get as in depth as I can and it'd be you know but um other than that yeah that's the best way to hit me if not then it's here at guardcookist.com so you know let me go from there got it all right y'all heard it from her I would love to know what you guys think of this interview right here um definitely hit her up she is a valid source that's one of the reason she's here I know you guys are getting finessed or wondering if you are getting finessed this source will not do such so um if you like this video go hit the like button if you like it you might as well share it and if you're not subscribed you know what to do hit that subscribe button