 With the successful completion of the all-progressive Congress presidential primaries, we discussed the big takeaways, and Tonya Princeville is saying that Tinnable's victory is a lesson for southern Nigeria. And do maybe Kachiku beats Kingsley-Mogalu, Chukoka-Moye, and others to win the African Democratic Congress presidential ticket. Well, this is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anacom. Former governorship aspirants for the 2023 elections in River State Prince, Tonya Princeville, has said the emergence of the all-progressive Congress presidential candidates, Asiwaju Bola and Med Tinnable, and former Vice President Atiku Abubaka asked the People's Democratic Party's flag bearer, should teach the southern Joe political zone a lesson in unity. Now, Princeville, while reacting to the emergence of Tinnable yesterday, said the 2023 presidential elections between Atiku and Tinnable would be interesting to watch. Princeville noted that southern Nigeria, Joe political zones of south-south-southeast and the middle belt, have been taught a good lesson. While joining us to debunk this is Charles O'Too and Achike Chude, both political analysts. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you so much for having me, Mary An. Great. Now, I'm going to start with you, Charles, because I know what Achike somewhat thinks. But do you think that there's a lesson to learn? Because looking at the scenario, he put side by side what took place or transpired during the PDP's special convention, and that of the APC, and he made reference to the fact that the south-east, the south-souths, and of course the middle belts have been taught a good lesson. And I'm wondering, was there really a lesson in all of this, especially in terms of unity? Thank you very much, Mary An. Thank you for having me once again. The fact remains that what played out during the APC presidential primaries is a lesson for not just the party, but the entire measure. First of all, the first takeaway for me is the fact that that particular exercise, you know, portrayed so much about how the government of President Mohammed Bahrain has been done in the last seven years. You see, we saw a lot of individuals shifting of postponements, reactions and camp reactions. At some point, the party will say, look, we've streamed down the race, the number two, five, we've streamed down to ten, we've streamed down to two, three, and that's continued. It's really a big lesson, particularly for the cyber and geopolitical zone of the country, because in as much as a south-easterner, I would say that the people of Ignatian, who were in the race, were not putting their best foot in, because Teno Buu Forestas did not come to the south-east for campaigns, but he had people who were on gun, working for him. I couldn't remember a couple of times, people tried to engage some of those aspirants from the south-east, and their opinions were simple. Some of them claimed they were doing so much. That, for me, has taught us the lesson that doing so much may not be enough, that picking a party's presidential ticket involves a whole lot of works. It talks to the south-east that, look, there are instances against forestas where some of us from the south-east were not expecting. I am from a boy state forestas. I am from the same boy south-east with the equipment of the state and the foreign minister of the south-east of Teno Buu Forestas. The two aspirants that were killed in this contest are from the same local government, not just the same house, but a local government. They are from the same Obrou community. Obrou is a community in a boy that has about 14 villages. At some point, I was thinking that they were being brought on somebody like, you know, the incumbent governor of the state for the Teno Buu Forestas, to step down for one another. So the south-east could see a little bit of what's made out through the many aspirants that stepped down for Asirabibullah Teno Buu. So for me, we decided on the right side of Teno Buu, and we talked, namely, that there was a war or misunderstanding between Teno Buu and his camp and then the northern power oligarchs. And at the end of the day, the one who saw play out in that alleged force should have a play out for Teno Buu, who, ordinarily, people were thinking that, okay, maybe since Lauer is the only person in the race, as the Senate president, we have done a lot of processes, even including support. They really decided, speaking for him, like, people like Hodges Al-Kalo, you know, being a good friend of the innocent governor, people were thinking that the nut could really end Lauer. And that made some of the participants to be so fit to judge that for Lauer to remain the only man standing in the race of the nut, that there must be something in the ocean, there must be a card to be played by the nut. But in all of it, we saw a Buhari Qabah that is not in control. We saw a national chairman of the party that is not in control, time control of the party. We also saw a Buhari that changed itself, creditably, to be democratic in the entire process. He made a decision on which people would comment, no matter how you see it. The fact that he didn't interfere, he didn't make a voice, he didn't give his voice to any of the parties, including the militants that were banned from his cabinet, including even his second-in-command vices as the emissive ideal, that perturbed to me that Buhari didn't want that if our current process. It also perturbed to me that who were expecting a smooth ride, who were expecting to be addressed, who were expecting to say, where is the justice? And the justice would be that the nut would look the other way and support them. Instead of working very hard for the ticket like anybody did. It's true to me that the politics of today is policies of money. Aside from the fact that... I'm sorry, I just want to quickly take you up on something that you just said before I go to Achike. You did say that the Southeast did not necessarily put out or put its best foot forward. And in terms of personalities, because I'm guessing that that's what you're talking about, who are these best foods? Because, I mean, we saw so many people from the Southeast. We saw Erochus. We saw... I mean, and I'm talking about across the APC and the PDP, we saw Peter Albee, who's now moved to the Labour Party. We saw the airborne state governor. And really, politically, who are the strongest, aside from these ones who had thrown their hats into the ring, and when you're talking about their best foot forward, what exactly do you mean? I mean, because these people are the ones that we saw. Thank you very much, Mary-Anne. Thank you once again. The people in the Southeast that would have considered the best, people would have read them and their students. The main simulation, Erochus Etrosha was the presenter in the race. He was the leader in the race. You saw him speak all the dialects, all the languages across the country. And you saw how it turned out that he got his reward. By that, I mean that somebody like Dr. Boon Maoyano for instance, who's a student is better known, should have been a rallying point for all the other astronauts from the South. I'm not saying he doesn't have his view as his shortcomings or shortfalls, but if the South has started this agitation, give it to us. Where is he just in? Is this our town? And you didn't just find the lights of Hodges O'Carlo for instance, and doesn't he see the presence of Ahmad Lawan? I'm even saying, look, let it be that if any other part of the South should take it apart from the South, let this power return to the North. You have the statement, you have the statement of Hodges O'Carlo issue before the primary, justifying why should the South is or no other part of the North should be supported by the South. I mean, I did it that apart from somebody in the mode of Dr. Boon Maoyano, who did not also trust his antecedents, who also have garnered vast range of experiences such as command by governor and all that, that I didn't see the likes of Oman Heikonisa as very contender for the race. I give it to him that he got a vote from the delegates from Oman Heikonisa as it were. Got across the South East. Many elites in the South East would not rally around Oman Heikonisa even if he had the office to present it. That's the truth, that's the fact. Why? Because of his antecedents. The agitators in the South East, IPODA, all a lot of issues that people expected him as a governor for instance, being the South East governor for the Shema to meet discussions around. That didn't happen, this didn't happen. Okay, I want to go to... Quickly, I'll come back to you. Let me go to Achikin. Achikin from all of the things that Charles is saying, he's trying to say that maybe the South East is the problem of the South East. Or maybe the South East, the South South and of course the Middle Belt are their own problems. What are your thoughts? Achikin, I think you're muted. Achikin, can you hear me? I think that you're muted and you need to unmute yourself. Can you hear me? Okay. I'm going to try it one more time. Alright, I'm going to toss back to Charles. Charles. So just like Tonya Princeville has said that we need to learn a lesson in unity. If the call for the South East and the power needs to return to the South and the South East was saying, give us a chance at this presidency. I mean, the sound of that call was very loud but then when we look at how much work was put in to also back that call, there seems to be zero. And that's why I asked the question I asked to Achikin. Could it be that the South East is the problem of itself? And could that be detailed for the South West, sorry, the South South and the Middle Belt? Thank you. If Achikin is not back, I can just make a brief remark on that. The problem about the scientists, apart from the lack of unity among the leaders of the scientists, as the largest socio-political and socio-constitutional organization in the United States, met with the whole society. What did the PDP have in it? You cannot continue to issue first statements. These are your sons. These are your fathers. These are your friends. These are your leaders. And there was no plan to bring these astronauts together to say, look, you saw the running point. You saw the way the South Western astronauts, you saw the number of times the TV was ready to run around the South Western astronauts in the presidential office. You saw the economic and economic and the United States governor. You saw a lot of them running around. Yes, one group or the other have been run by the Achikin people during the time he was there as power. You didn't see that happening in society. I am saying this is a big question for all of you guys. Why it is a big... Why we should be at the receiving end? Why we will take notes on the products, our other Southern products, not even withdrawing from the race? I want to say that power is never given by taking. That is a well-established political principle. It is never so important that it is the time of this reform every other person goes to sleep. So for the South East, the problem is for Hanes and Big Bo. The Hanes and Big Bo were only part of it. And there was no force, not even a meeting. Never did we hear that the Hanes and Big Bo linear as some of the stations called the astronauts to say no. And this is the... the person will turn the tap to fit most and the rest of Nigeria will run around. Please, let's go to this towards this direction. When you see that happening and that is why I said and I know all of you that why we blame the South West for coming once again after 16 years in power to take what we think belongs to us. But we didn't do our work. It does not do their best. We didn't put our best effort forward. Okay, I think Achike is back. So let me come to Achike. Achike, I want to know are there other lessons that need to be learned just as I asked Charles at the beginning? And again, looking at what he said and even what Tonya is saying about the, you know, banding together of our societies in the South East, in the South South and in the Middle Belt, what could you possibly think is responsible for us not uniting or even coming together and banding behind ours just as we see the other zones do? Yeah, well I think the Tonya Prince will I did not establish the context for which he made that statement. There should have been a context because he just, I made the statement if you look at the political history of this country I think it's obviously wrong unless he's talking about recent political history. In the sense that in the sense that the South East was never in the mix, in the frame of things when it comes to president from the South. South East was never in the mix. South East has not contributed anything significant to the APC as a political party. You know, of course, you know South East is more the enclave of the PDP and the PDP has not very well in the South East or this way. So it was always going to be very difficult and if you're looking at equity, if you're looking at, you know, politics and the additional favours or patronage, you know on the basis of the work that has been done, on the basis of achievements that have been done for the party and then the presidency would obviously go to the Southwest because the Southwest made to a larger state their involvement in 2015 made the, I mean it gave power to the APC at the center not the South East and so from that from that perspective, I think the South East did not deserve the presidency but I mean if you're talking about the PDP, I would make that case and say yes, the PDP ought to have produced a presidential candidate from the South East of course, but that is a completely different thing. So from that perspective it did not, it did not, the South East or the South did not deserve the presidency of this country, if that is the basis for allocating political positions that's one. Then two, again if we are talking about maybe the South has been playing, you know, politics better and then you can only say that that has happened in the Southwest, only in the past several years, only the past several years and that the AP, the South East has played politics better and beyond the South South, you know, all this while in terms of its alliances with the North because it has always been the South East and the South South that have been in alliance with the North all of these years, the only time the Southwest went into an alliance with us segments of the North was in 915 when the APC was formed and the Southwest has benefited from that you know, so we must look at this in perspective but beyond that is the fact that you know, again for the APC to have given the presidency to the South East, it may meant that the Southwest would have for gone, for fitted their ambition for presidency and of course that is not going to happen because power is never given, it is taken and you know, one of the you know, area that I want to look at is the fact that it's unfortunate that we find ourselves talking about presidency to South, presidency to Southwest and South South and so on what the impression one has is that this is just an elitist game and that is actually what it is because if you look at what has happened with the presidency of this country in the past seven years and at previous times the country remains mad in all kinds of socioeconomic contradictions, you know, so like I said, it's just in the recent, the past seven years that you could say that the South East, I mean South West play the politics that has come on the time but, but you know, if we should have any level of disappointment it should be with the PDP and not with the APC because it was the PDP that was supposed to have an obligation to the South East on the basis of the fact that the South East has not enjoyed the presidency for quite some time, I mean if we long that we've never, and then the fact that the South East has contributed handsomely to the PDP over the years from 1998 and has gotten nothing at this particular point in time so it's not a combination of South, you know, Middle-Bird, South East and then the South South, I think it is it had everything to do with one man's ambition and that is Atticus and his ambition to become president and so the right kind of political consideration that should have been given to the South East was obviously not given to the South East and but don't forget the North also it's just about not even the South West or South East or South South the entire South has to come together to act as a counterweight, political counterweight to the North now you have the South West that is divided with the South South West going, you know, with the APC and all that so ultimately in terms of the proper balance of power that is needed to check the excesses of one region against the other we do not have that in the South and so I think that there should be a more meaningful relationship within the South the three regions of the South and the parts of the South, the Middle-Bird that has a pathetic also to the South Let's look at, still talking about the South East, let's look at the message of Obonaia Onnu on that day while he was trying to present you know his case for presidency although he also said that he played a huge role you know in the emergence of the APC he said he had to forego his presidency and presidential ambition at some point to let two Southwesterners emerge and he said I'd like to rephrase that he thinks that it would have been better that Mr. President would have handed over power the choice of words may not be necessarily great because of course it's debatable that he should be obviously handing over to somebody from the South East and he kept saying where is the justice it takes me back to the question that I asked we keep saying that we want power in the South East, power should come to the South East asking for justice and working to get that justice are two different things and this is what this is where Toyin was coming from that the likes of the tinubus of this world had been laying the bridge and foundation for what happened that day at the Eagle Square compared to us in the other zones The reality is that within the APC there was really no serious contender from the South East because it's not about shouting for justice, it's not about say laying claims to the fact that the South East needs a presidency or deserves a presidency it's also about the work you do and I agree with my colleague there it is also about the work you do it's also about your state of readiness they were not ready and they were not ready perhaps because they knew that they had not done enough to take the presidency of this country and they had not who are you going to, what did for instance apart from the very little that the South East has made within the APC which is not enough to ensure to give them the recognition for the presidency then you talk about the individual contributions of some of these people Kenan Naman, Umanhe who has been in PDB all this while but moved not too long ago to the APC so what did anybody actually expect from them, there was really nothing that they could have expected when you talk about politics for the sake of politics then the person who had worked most from the region that had done the most deserved the presidency of the run for the candidacy of the APC and that was the South West obviously, that is what it is really so obviously a lot needs to be done I think that the best opportunity for the South East was via the PDB which a lot of people have talked about we even had a penny fair in Lagos talking about the South Eastern presidency we had the parts of the middle bed and even the pundits from the South talking about South East presidency so I think that the South East was so short change especially under the platform of the PDB and not under the platform of the APC because the APC does not have any serious major in road in the South East and so they had no obligation but I think that PDB had an obligation and it is not just about the work that the South East did it was about equity and justice after all what worked with Abbas Judo before he became president what worked with the South West too to make the Abbas Judo presidency possible they didn't do much work but it was as a result of the crisis created by the moment of the June 12, 1993 election which deprived the South West of a presidential candidate a president of this country M.K. or Abhiola so the political elites in the country especially those up north start back and say no for us to have stability in the system in this country we must ensure that justice is done to the Europeans because of the death of Abhiola and the deprivation of Abhiola from the presidency of this country even for an election that he won so that was why they got together and gave it to Abbas Judo Abbas Judo was not electable Abbas Judo has visibility in the country Abbas Judo has serious name recognition but Abbas Judo does not have political constituencies he does not have political structures he was in prison and did not know work that work was done for Abbas Judo you know so that was for happen so even if you look at Jonathan for instance Jonathan did not have any serious constituency he didn't have political structures in place but it was decided that to go to Jonathan I mean to the South South and to Jonathan and and the political elites concerned did the work for Jonathan so you know it is also about recognizing that look this is the time for these people and then the work will be done and there will be consensus that is what is called elites bargaining okay alright back to you Charles before we wrap things up how long will it take for the South East to come of age because whether it be politicking whether it be coming to together for a certain cause I mean we saw what happened I think last year during the the elections that was the beginning of the disintegration of sorts within the group we saw even politicians, governors you know step into that forum and then we saw the divisions that happened but when will the South East come of age to a point where just like Kachike has said that oh it's time for power to go to these people and then they will be ready to receive structures or no structures but then of course a sense of readiness how soon or how long will it take for that to happen thank you very much thank you my figures because it should be as bad spot of what I was coming to and that is the fact that the elites manipulative theory have always been used against the party it is a theory in a national diplomacy and it's a policy that makes it difficult it's just like what he said if there is no morassuation on the path of the North and the North keeps seeing a divided side as their own advantage I mean until these changes the South East will never come of age we don't have the best of materials look at somebody like Peter Odey people know he's had incidents they know the records, they know what he has done Peter Odey has already begun become a revolution in the PPC registration and collection of the entire country there are lots of people that believe that this is a policy now back to your question again it is the North it is the North the North holds the faith when Abbas al-Jaw was given consideration under the PPC he was in the prison Abbas al-Jaw in records of a policy he did not win his word he did not win yet the North for him and the South East is it too much for the North to consider for the sake of what the South East has done the civil wars and all the other factors that are coming to play against the South East in the political history of this country is it too much for the North to also run around in fact is it too much for justice wish that the women will ask for is it too much for the other parts of the country particularly the North when I say the North people are now deciding the Northern narrative to say the North has not taken his turn in as much as this narrative is correct we know really what the South is going to present in the mode of the PPC we have gone to the country we know what it will do to the economy especially if the PDP was to say look whether you have money to share or not we trust that you will become the rally force to return us to power until this is done the South is far and also to my South Eastern daughters I want to also add my voice once again to say that politics has always been defined ostensibly as a game of who takes what, when and how if you are not ready to take politics in this ostensibly mission you are not to begin you are just dancing around you just want to be recognized and I believe that most of the leaders who were in this race were in to be recognized because they did know what and they expected results thank you very much well I want to say thank you gentlemen unfortunately our time is fast spent Chiquichu Day and of course Charles to both political analysts thank you so much gentlemen for having this conversation with me with us we will take a quick break and when we come back we discuss the affairs of the African Democratic Congress ADC as Dumebi Kachiku beats Kingsley Mogalu and Chiku Kamoe in its presidential primaries we will be right back