 Six oh seven goodness Are there any additions or changes to the agenda no team, okay Warns are here somewhere Okay, so no warrants We have We have we have on the agenda sharing update about insurance and we got I I'm going to call it a communication About Fred about insurance. Do you want to share this Denise or do you want me to just mention it quickly what it says? Yeah, basically what it says is that They don't have an answer yet Yeah, they're working they've talked to their underwriters and other folks And I'm waiting for people to get back to them Yeah, Fred actually answered my email over the weekend and then again today Kelly Answered my eat answered that they really don't have anything for us yet So but they are working on it. So that's good Yeah And they are one of the things I'll add to what Denise said is that they're they found They found one carrier, but they need more but they you know really didn't get any information. So details What that might look like forthcoming and they're continuing to look to see if there's anybody else and this is specifically around the question of Downstream liability not the dam itself, but what happens if the dam fails? So That is a no news Update and then I think we should Make a finding to go into executive session the finding being that premature public knowledge would serve as a would put the public or the Place the public body for a person involved as substantial disadvantage that is that a motion that is a motion For a finding is there a suck that's a finding Okay, is there all questions all in favor, please say aye Okay, so we've made the finding is there a motion to go into executive private executive Session to discuss attorney client privilege information pursuant to the finding and that is One VSA 313 a1 I think Okay Rick made the motion is there a second Denise is seconding all in favor, please say aye. I John I Okay, we are coming out of executive session. It's about 637 and we went in We went into executive session after a finding that premature public knowledge would put the the town or a private individual at I was reading the language at Substantial Disadvantage We made the motion for the finding and then we went into executive session pursuant to the finding to discuss attorney client privilege information under 1 3 1 1 VSA 313 a1 and we are coming out and we have nothing to report Okay We are going to it is 637 still so we're just going to move through our agenda even though we're a little early because We we try to let people know that that could happen and we have folks here who are interested in some of the stuff We will talk about anyway Are there any items of help? Is there any public comment for items not on the agenda? I was not on the agenda Yeah, we have the ARPA thing on there. Yeah Sure, yeah, yeah I'll be quick because I know we have a long Quick it just looks like you know, I ran I tried I posted this on from porch forum And it wouldn't it wouldn't take the whole agenda because they said I had too many Anyway so I feel like a lot of conversation has been happening about Liability and I know there's a lot of fear about the one million dollar policy And we'll know soon if there's more than that, but there were one piece of information. We got recently Is that the liability during construction the state requires two million dollars in Liability from contractors The state requires right yes a minimum of two million downstream liability for the construction process And Larry Hebert who's the contractor we've been talking to most who will likely get a bond Yeah, he did nickels pond He typically carries two million dollars He has done some dams for which they've requested more and would be willing to go up to five million The last time he did that was I think five And it was Additional cost He always does the two is the ability to bump it he can bump it to five if that's a request for an added cost of Get additional insurance of Up to five Right that's what he's done before And then we just wanted to reiterate like there's a lot of talk about Liability of the town owning the dam and the million dollars What's missing from that conversation is regardless of what a Judge would say or a judgment would be if the Project doesn't move forward Because of this roadblock or another similar roadblock the dams going to fail at some point or The state will draw down the pond at some point and either way if it fails We lose houses downstream. We lose roads. It's incredibly expensive. We lose the pond If it's drawn down by the state we lose the pond. We lose a huge tax base around the pond We lose the store like it's catastrophic to this town and so I think that I worry that the fear of of liability of ownership is overshadowing that this has to happen and The liability and the harm that will come from the tap to the town If this doesn't happen is greater than You know the chances of it failing a brand new dam Like we have good contractors. The state has high standards The reason passive Has the liability they have is because that's what everybody has That's what they ensure 72 dams Right and that's what they offer because that's what people are Asking for and that's what's required a new dam the chances of failure are so small that when you actually calculate chance of having that liability Versus the chance of catastrophic problems If we don't take ownership and move the project forward The math just doesn't add up It just has to move forward so just so you know, I mean Liability we are still checking into yes and passive is looking into it for us We've had some email exchanges and they're waiting to hear back from at least one insurer as to They will cover it in the email but You know what what the nature of the policy will be and the cost and all that of course they still have to get More information back to the insurance company This select board As you see it here constituted here Is not going to be here post town meeting. I know unless there's a For quite a newer nuclear disaster wherever it's all hands on deck. We may have 10 10 members of a select board or something But the reality is it's going to be the next select board. That's going to make that decision for sure Absolutely. So so my next question is around There's been four Permits additional to the main permit. There are four other permits applications That are awaiting signature that we've had I think since December 19th or so and I'm wondering if we if there's a Like is it just getting missed getting on an agenda? Can we get that on an agenda or Are you all not willing to sign the permits till you learn more about these other issues? Like I can't tell if it's just we are not happening On-going conversation with our attorney About these there is a whole list of issues that's on it. Okay, and we're trying to figure out how to best do this and again um, it I mean there's a possible one possible outcome as the bond goes on the warning tonight and you'll see it'll likely be amended and and It may be the next select board that makes some of these decisions. Well, and the bond could fail the bond could fail So sequencing sequencing is important. Our attorney is advising us to take it one step. Yeah at a time I just worry what we've heard from Folks at the state is that if we wait too long to sign them submit the permit applications It jeopardizes our ability to complete the project this summer So it would be a bummer if we got the money at town meeting day And everything was ready and we could get the contracts, but We're three weeks late on signing the permit applications and we can't get it done Do you just summarize the list about because I know there's the dam construction permit application. Yeah We we have some we have some emails. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have them up my head, but I can email them Army Corps Yeah, we we we do have them So Army Corps, I know we had an understanding with the state that as a non-owner Taking no responsibility We could sign the applications and have signed previous ones right with that understanding that we accept no responsibility and liability Um, we never had that conversation with the Army Corps To my knowledge at least I didn't right um, and I don't uh, I don't know. Well, they accept as a non-owner That was I mean we kind of paid Jeff Tucker to look into that stuff So I didn't give you an answer my under my understanding. I didn't talk to Jeff Pauley My understanding was that was sort of a blanket thing for all of these Well, the state can speak for the Corps. We need to hear from the Corps And it needs to be in writing Okay, we need to have something in writing And we're waiting and we haven't on earth the the written document On the point you just made You know, there's some memory or understanding that it exists But we haven't seen it. I have never seen a written document that said Army Corps No, the the state one that says that says That just because The bottom line is sequencing is really important and I'm not sure I I'm not confident that this board will sign those permits Applications the brand applications It may be the next board which might delay us a year but Well, it it's it delays us a year it delays us a year and we hope it doesn't fail Right, we get it, you know, but at the same time we have an obligation to tell you that You know, we can't just say, okay, we'll take that risk. No, you know that there is a sequence to this It's a complicated for sure because it's the ownership issues and insurable issue. I mean, this is it's not easy We're a lot of employers are giving us right advice, right? So we have to be careful about For sure That we have to Yeah, yeah We we hear you though. So we we are, you know, john gave you the teaser. We are going to take up the petition and It's where is that that's coming right out. It's coming right up. Yeah, so I think that's that's what I wanted to just Yeah, so we we want to get to that while you guys are still Yeah, I'll stick around and then I want to stick around for the Way, we might move that around if we're moving along quickly might might move that out because There's nothing else on the arpolis that is as interesting perhaps All right, so is there thank you, jane. Yeah, is there a motion on the cassette agenda items that are So moved mostly housekeeping here I'll second that motion. Okay. Um, any questions about consent agenda all in favor, please say Hi, okay. That's well, we have to That's what took up a big piece of the agenda, right Um, we we made a bunch of appointments one thing I do want to mention because it came up in some email is That we are getting caught up on appointments that we should have made last year. So when we say that they're reappointments for Ending in March 2023 that is actually what it means, right? Um, That's not a typo. Denise had to convince me it wasn't a typo But we're but again, we're not going to get ahead of the future board Right. Um, and so they can reappoint these people again in six weeks Right for another year and everybody pretty much has said that they would continue to serve So also what is on the consent agenda is signing the pdr 4155 form Um, which I have here Which relates to the this is reassessment, right? It has to do with property evaluation It's confirming that there's no present suit pending to recover taxes paid under protest, right? Okay, so you're gonna send this around, okay, uh, and also um, authorizing um, the acting road commissioner to sign the municipal roads general permit Notice that we have to sign every year. Okay um Consent agenda part two where you're taking up separately because Wait a minute. I'm still writing. Okay Consent agenda part two Is has to do with East Cal's community trust. So I will Recuse myself, but can I continue to write and sit here? Yes, of course you can you're recusing yourself because you're a member of the Board, right? Okay, so, um, I Circulated to John and rick for your feedback and we got feedback um Incorporated feedback from our attorney series have been heavily vetted these two documents Related to the ecct project and taking on grants from the state um I Signed them this morning, and I'm looking for you guys to ratify For all of the three of us to ratify the approval and signature that I provided. Is there a motion? So Second John seconds. Okay. All in favor. Please say aye. All right Denise is recused. Okay, and John seconded it. Yes, I did. Okay, so let's hold out just one second We're done with that um Can you just sign here and not finish filling this out and get it to the state because we have to We have to get it in by taking my 26. So John Brick me the motion of John seconded I'm gonna Denise try to back you up with some Language just some notes here The first consent agenda. I missed who made the motion. It was me and John. Okay. I'm sure you've got that too All right, so now let's skip the curb cut ordinance until Stephanie gets here and shade tree preservation and the emergency management item um and town meeting I think we need to do town meeting all in one block um So let's do um Want to do personnel update Yeah, we could do that. We could do the Do we not want to do the petition item? Well, and uh, oh, yeah, we can do that. Sure. Let's do that petition item while Jamie and Marjorie fear Where I put that Yeah, it's on my computer. I got it right here So well done Getting that petition. Yeah, congratulations. Congratulations. Congratulations. So the petition article reads Denise are you making a motion? I am making a motion for the um petition reads the article says Shall general obligation bonds of the town of calis and amount not to exceed 450,000 dollars subject to reduction from available state or federal grants or other Financial assistance be issued for the purpose of renovation of the Curtis pond dam To state dam safety standards. So that's the way the petition reads and the board has The ability to either accept or reject the language So my motion is that we accept the language. Is there a second? second Okay Okay discussion Yes discussion So it's come to my attention At the article as it's been written doesn't comply with statute specifically 24 vsa 1755 But it can be amended so it does comport with statute. So I'd like To propose a friendly amendment to allow for that So Denise just read the article. I'm yeah the article That was petitioned and that's before this board and this boat. I'd like to add After the word the last word of the article, which is standards the following language The estimated total cost of which is 700,000 dollars And that's your friendly amendment to your motion. Yeah, and so what that does You're you're required to include the total cost of a project when you propose a bond and this This article as petition did not also have the total cost of the project included So that's what my amendment does. So John makes the motion to make a second and Denise is seconding And it's an estimated total cost. We ran the language past our attorney So it's all right. Okay. Is there any other discussion about the Article no the amendment I need a friendly amendment and the amendment Well, hey, you're right. We have to do any other discussion About the amendment to the article. No, all in favor of the amendment. Please say aye. Aye Any other discussion questions about the petition and the proposed article itself? No, so just to be clear for folks what this means is that the board has Um, except the petition it'll be on the war. I don't think we haven't voted on it yet, but I thought we did we just know when we voted on the amendment to the article Sorry, so we need to vote on the all right. All right. Are there um any other questions or comments on the The article as amended All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Okay now Denise So what this means is the article will go on the warning and it will go on the ballot It has to go I found out learn today for something new again You even though it's going to be on the ballot you still put the article on the warning So that and you just put a thing after it's on the Australian ballot. So we have that language And we will amend the article to include this new Little bit of information And then we have to and we'll be talking at when we do town meeting stuff about Information meetings because you we have to have an informational meeting in my question I still don't have any answer to yet is can we do If we decide to do town meeting not in person, can we do an informational meeting that includes town meeting stuff and So that's kind of where we're at and our working assumption as we can even if we have one at noon and one at 1245 right But anyway, so yes, it will be on the Yeah Okay Do we want to do the ARPA funds? Sure. So We warned for 840 and it is now 657 But we're just making it up. I don't think anybody's going to object to so we have talked about Um, we've we've we've had several requests and we have um identified a couple of other places where ARPA funds are a really good fit And they're on our agenda item we a few weeks ago approved Um a grant application through FEMA emergency funds I think it was for a generator grant But the town has to match The grant and so the town's 50% match is 60 16,092 We talked about using ARPA, but that wasn't the way the motion was made point number one The conservation commission asked in the 2024 budget for funds for an invasive species study A one-time expense and that seemed like a great fit for ARPA funds So we took those out of the proposed budget and have them here We have the Curtis pondam Request for 100,000 and the east calis fire district for 60,000 Each of those last two Is a double of the original request from the organizations so I'm I'm going to ask for a motion. I think around Approving the generator grants the invasive species study and the east calis fire district Carving Curtis pond out for a second discussion in motion Is there a motion on the first on the generator grant 16,000 and the invasive species 15,000 And east calis fire district safety Is there a motion? Okay on those three Denise is seconding it and just to be clear ARPA funds have to be used for like one time Things they can't be ongoing expenses like salaries And things like that. It has to be one kind right Over 400,000 we got 429 we received 479 477 and 36 cents, okay And we already committed a hundred thousand Just in case people don't know a hundred thousand to CV fiber a traffic study 30,000 town office historical indexing 28,000 20,000 we gave for that one 20,000 right? Yeah, oh no, we gave our cost we gave CV fiber 200,000 Yeah Yeah, all right, so there's a motion on three of the four items and there was a second Is there any other question or discussion on those three? All in favor, please say aye. Okay on the Curtis pondam 100,000 Again on the on the can I do you guys want me to speak to this or just somebody else want to speak to it? On the point of sequencing and Not getting too far Down the path Um We want to We we want to Sort of pencil the 100,000 Not write the check wait to see what happens with the bond vote But express the You know through it. We are going to take a vote but express our general support for the for the For the appropriation So I think I'll ask for a motion to approve the 100,000 Contingent on a successful bond vote at town meeting. Okay, I'll sec. Oh I'll make that motion. Okay, so this is um a motion to approve The 100,000 the allocation of a hundred thousand dollars of Of the ARPA federal ARPA fund monies toward the Curtis pond the construction of the Curtis and or engineering of The Curtis pond dam project contingent upon voter approval Tended on passage. Yeah of the bond We have two years to spend Yeah, okay, um, we should probably make a contingent on the bond vote and um Other Issues of concern being resolved such that the project moves forward. Yeah You're contingent on the bond vote and And other issues of concern being resolved such that the project moves forward under the leadership of a different of a future board Being resolved such that the project moves forward Under the leadership of a future board That's not good. Okay. Any other discussion or comments? James one clarifying question Hypothetically if The bond failed But we were able to secure the funding other ways That could be amended by the future select a future board could be we can't hamstring a future board I know That's why we're doing it this way So that there's an opportunity if you need to do something different Yep. Yep. The money will still be there and a future board can say well it failed that contingency But oh look, there's still money here, right or look at somebody gave you Right. It's our rational for setting it aside. Yeah, that's all right. So I seconded it You got the language Okay, all in favor. Please say aye Aye Okay And mark is recusing recused Yeah Hi mark Welcome. I was so instant. I didn't even say hi. I saw you come in. I saw you come in. I know we were all super focused He looks beat up and sessions just started. Okay, so we are So mark we just finished the 840 items And we went along. Yeah. Well, no, we haven't done some of the earlier items Neil Stephanie is ahead of you And I know that when she gets here Is she gonna want to weigh in on this reason? Well, she may or may not but I want to make sure that we don't make her wait for 45 minutes Through a 45 minute discussion on trees to get to the curb pet ordinance So I'm gonna welcome you and and not go immediately to your issue Um, we are really jumping around tonight guys. Let's see the personnel updates in east. Yeah, um We had talked at a previous meeting about Sharon not getting together With the town administrator at east about failure to review The job description and see um What new ideas we might come up with and maybe how to revise the job description how to Advertise I mean if you look at our advertising budget for looking for the treasurer and the Business manager Position and dpw. It's high because we have put a lot of effort into advertising for those positions We've had applicants. None of them seem to work out for various reasons So we decided that given that there will be a new board It makes sense to wait for that board to be able to weigh in And yeah the role in Moving to In other words, we're not going to go meet with the eastmen failure folks to For Sharon and Denise to learn a lot about how they organize their town government. We realize Um, you know, we could still do that if somebody Wants some help, but let's let the next we're not going to be able to finish that project And wrap it all the way up. No, of course somebody else takes over So we'll stay focused on things that we need to finish up. Yeah without opening up new New things, right? So that's that's the plan So we're sort of so we all you guys voted to You all rise us. Yeah, so we're we're just saying we're yeah, but still we're not going to do it question Don't be still running ads We haven't in the last few weeks. Yeah right Is it our intention to run ads or after now or to I don't you know, if they the new board may want to make changes to the job descriptions Yeah, so it doesn't make sense to run ads for jobs that the job description may change bringing candidates in who Yeah, and I mean, I'm happy to help the new board and And say, you know, this is what these jobs really do um I'm happy to help the new board do that Anyway, that was just housekeeping too. Yeah, that was just enough wrap up something we opened to say nevermind. We're not going to do it And we're meeting on the 30th With the union with the union So the union is not a public meeting We're just saying that so people are sort of informed right and we don't even have to advertise those meetings. No There was not the meeting I missed was we did we have not met yet. We haven't even met with them yet Federal holiday. This will be a this will be a high nice to meet you um conversation And we're gonna put it here at seven and a week next week. Is this is similar? How are we gonna handle the same issue that you guys just raised? I think we'll have to we'll tell them Monday night what the what what's happening And then they just have to decide right Because because the same thing is true anything we agree to Even though You know, none of us are going to be here in six weeks We are the board right so anything we agree to Is now that would be contractually minding. Yeah, right. Yeah, we don't want to hamstring Yeah, right. I mean although there is a possibility we they might say hey give us this and It's a reasonable presentation. We could say, okay, I mean I in the sky, but that would be nice if I were them That's what I would do right. I would wrap it up. Yeah, well, you know, you know, it would be nice to just get this done Well, and not maybe maybe that will happen. Yeah, maybe and similarly if someone there's still knowledge of our interest in a dpw director and the treasurer slash administrative assistant Um, if someone came forward, we would still Be willing to conduct an interview and business business manager. Yeah, I do think I understand you're thinking that you just might wait back on the positions At the same time If there's an opportunity to fill a position Yeah, somebody wonderful next day would really be great because It's true. We don't want to tie the hands of the new board But it's also true that it would be nice if the board didn't have to inherit the same problem We've been living with so that's right. Right. No, no doubt. No, so many wonderful step forward and You know, it was a good fit and a good match. Yeah but in terms of again in terms of You know continuing to advertise and bring people in and have somebody part way through the process When a new board comes in that just feels super awkward for everybody Well, yeah, it doesn't seem you know the new board should be involved Okay, so that's the personnel update Can Rick do his Roads report Gosh Um, yeah, let's yeah, let's do that. Yeah I mean right now We're all plowing in sanding mode. It's been a challenging winter. It's you know We thought even though we have not gotten a lot of snow Yeah, we've gotten some this week Um, we have Got quite a lot of sand there. You know, it's very slippery. I see we've got a continuous It's almost like a mini-lens season. Well, I should see an extended one season You know, we've had following roads, intermittent late because we've had You know temperatures in the 30s even 40 degrees. So the guys have been doing a great job I will say I really commend them. I just got a text today From u32 or from first student and from the bus People are gonna They said these those callous roads, they're finding them better than they have been for a year And that's like a lot in a year. Wow This is a wet slippery snow. So these are the worst Usually in january, you know, we have these dry very sticky snows that give good traction. We ever had that this one It's all then So these are typically the worst and then combined with the fact that we've got all the severe running and You know, it's uh, it's a real So they said the roads are in the best They said they the text said they were the best condition they've seen And did you say who the text came from or did you not want to say? Yes, it came from shock at first student Oh, great. These he manages all the bus And so this is good. This is uh, and we're down a person, right? We never filled the commissioner. Yeah, it's actually been working commissioners. It's working very well The guys are getting out on the roads at 3 30 in the morning, which wasn't happening I don't think we're down in position. We still have four road crew guys What I mean is Four with the working commissioner, right? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean we I'm wrong The point here is that we're doing and we're doing very very well And we're getting all the bus routes are clear by morning and better yet As you know, it takes four and a half to six hours to kind of finish a route It all depends on what kind of conditions are out there They're actually Doing the rodeo route the another route completion time is actually going much faster now than it did in the past And it's better distributed. So we are uh Yeah, I think we're just getting better service in general and certainly that I'm finding even, you know, they're pretty much done by 5 30 Six o'clock. I'm seeing most of the roads ready. Certainly all the snow emergency routes. I mean the uh, the school bus routes Yeah, so it's very impressive That's great. Thank you. They're doing a wonderful job. They're so wonderful to deal with Yeah, I also want to say I think you're doing wonderful. Yes. Yes. Yeah, you are They make it easier. I'll tell you that's Is there a great leadership in that group? Um, are you supposed to get another major snow midweek? Yeah, I mean we can get on the weekend How many we don't know? I think there's two coming. There are two coming. Awesome. But we just love it Depending on it the the patterns seem to be generally south of us, you know, so we get on the Not what they said today. Well, maybe on this one. This one is supposed to be the other way around I don't really, it's gonna be a But you know, I think we'll see the same kind of performance with these guys I did just get a I will say I did get a complaint from a Whisker resident about using sand hill with it. They said they got truck They got stuck on sunday night at 11 30 p.m on Sunday while hauling A car on a trailer And so I said, you know, I responded and kind of said we don't really plow our guys are out We do we the most we can do is about two rounds in a day. They're on the roads at 3 30 if it's not that storm started Later in the evening really so it probably wasn't Touched at that point, but they were up at 3 30 in the morning Sanding I said we you should not be moving October vehicles at 11 30 on a sunday night at night and expect to be safe I say even during a storm, you don't want to be doing it because it takes six hours to Plow a route in here taking a chance. They're absolutely taking a chance. I mean, we can't Maintain, I mean we only have so much staff and you know it if it's snowing hard, you can get an inch or two falling an hour and That covers up anything Yeah, I'm saying don't Don't I right. Yeah. Yeah, Jordan says one great. No, that's so great. No, great. They're doing wonderful there There's they say thank you which That's a huge difference. Yeah, that's that's actually and that's you know, what I was really pleased to hear that from first student These guys are on the road and they're in the most the school buses aren't very difficult to drive on In snow conditions their wheel rear wheel drive. They're long. They're narrow. I mean, they're tall And you know, they have automatic chains, which are not very good. They're not like Spinner change their spinner chains drop down They aren't on your times chains restrict your speed on vehicles, right? You can't go fast So they like spider spikes. They come on like that. No, they spin down against under the tire It's a spinning disc that has chains that stick out and they kind of fly under the wheels So they improve your traction a little bit, but they're not locked up to the tires. They can be spit out And you can't and I can't use them on the paper Yeah Yeah, so they you know they That means a lot when we get a kind of like that from the schools Thank you Stephanie perfect timing. We're ready for you While you while you come forward and take your catch your breath and take your coat off I'm just going to review for folks that we've we've had that we've jumped around a lot because we got it earlier in the anticipated start So we have Completed both sections of the consent agenda We can finish the ARPA funds vote. We had a road support. We did the personnel update and we Processed the item related to the Curtis pond dam petition. We haven't done Generally, we haven't done the town meeting section, but we did do that one thing And now Stephanie's here to talk to us about the work that the conservation commission has been doing Related to our curb cut ordinance. We have a curb cut ordinance that you have already, you know, that statute Yes, it's 2004 ordinance. It hasn't been revisited. Yeah, your curb code was from 2004 your last Last yeah, and then there's the um State statute, right? So as we gear up to reviewing and making updates the conservation express of interest in weighing in and I asked Stephanie to come tonight just uh, just to give some brief You know brief comments about what We're not going to vote anything just to hear what you guys have been up to what your thoughts are Yeah, I No, no, there's no Yeah, but um I just wanted so let me explain where this came from You know, you may be aware that uh on Nelson pond road somebody got a curb cut to build a garage At the top of a hill. It's a 14 grade And um, it was legal It wasn't it was legal 40 percent and it was a an accessory to a house that was there because it was a garage So, um You know, there was a site visit and and uh, you know, they talked about oh cutting down some of these trash trees that were Wine had been impeding that was their words might have been impeding the site lines they got a curb cut permit and um I think I don't have the permit. I think there were a few conditions on it But in any event they made a huge mess and they were right across from Nelson pond Right across the road So it was a huge mess and and the zoning administrator and the state got involved because there were these discharges into the lake And made them do all kinds of Um, you know erosion control stuff So, you know, I saw it other people saw it and said wait a minute, you know, this shouldn't have happened and so, um, well for one thing these The planning commission is changing the definitions so that There a road no longer will will cut off the district So that that was a problem because it was very close to the pond But it wasn't in the shoreland district because it was on the other side of the road But anyway, it was a mess and so I and other members conservation commission started thinking about Is there some way that that The curb cut ordinance could include some natural resource protections and You know, we talked about the kinds of things that we would like to see for instance, you know the slope of the driveway At least where it comes into the road or you know, are there wildlife crossings right there? Or, you know, there's there's things there's a wetland or a fen, you know, right next to this thing So there are things that we would like to see protected. So I talked to joe mccleaner lawyer And it just happened that joe had been involved and he litigated a case That it ended up That they the court didn't rule on that aspect of it, but he wrote a brief about why you the select board has the authority to include Environmental considerations in the curb cut permit And he sent me his brief. I went, oh, that's good. And it's based basically on the um provisions of this very very weird statue The state statue, which is um 19 vsa section 11 11 And it It talks it talks about a lot of stuff for the state and then it talks about municipal It's funny. It never uses the word curb cut and in fact It only uses the word access permit in the central place, but I'll talk about that in a minute So there's several pieces of language in that Very opaque statute One of them is as a condition of any such permit compliance with all local ordinances and regulations relating to hideways And land use shall be regulated shall be required And then the sentence continues for eight more lines and you know, you got to read you will not believe this sentence I mean it's eight lines in this statute um But it also references the need to be consistent with the planning goals of 24 vsa 4302 And to be compatible with with any regional plan state agency plan or approved municipal plan Well, there's a lot there. I mean you go to any of them you go to our town plan You go to the planning goals of 24 vsa 4302 and there's a lot there about The importance of the natural resources of various natural resources and that's what joe was reliant on in his brief And he's saying look, you know, there it is plain language so um and our zoning regulations our town plan Have abundant language about the importance of protecting various natural resources and and and the planning goals of 24 vsa 4302 as well so, um Okay, so we felt okay good We can do that we can do and then you know, the conservation commission is talking about it We're thinking well, how far from the actual cut Could be regulated in an ordinance Because though, you know, you have the highway and you have the highway right of way and you have this cut into the highway right of way But then you have things as I just mentioned you have things like, you know, a vernal pool right next to it Well, what's interesting is that as I said it doesn't Use the you term the curb cut it says It states this it says section 1111 b of 19 vsa states It's unlawful to develop construct regrade or resurface any driveway entrance or approach without a written permit by the select board Oh approach Well, you approach it from up there from the driveway you approach it from the left and from the right and So he said look this aspect statue. That's in the statue. That is the language in the statue And I think it was in the package. That was the original you had about curb cuts that I think Sharon somebody sent around that you had I can certainly it's been ages. We had a link. There is still actually a link in our Yeah, it's 19 vsa section 1111. There's still a link here on the agenda if you have an electron with me to a folder Oh good to the whole package of curb cut stuff. Yeah, that's what the Conservation Commission was using as well um, you know So Joe saying look it's never been litigated the plain language says that the The curb cut permit can include da da da and has to in fact comply with town plan Honing regional plan planning goals of 24 vsa 43 or two. Joe said go for it So we just need to write A policy advisory or something that we incorporate those So the planning commission is actually and the reason we've been hearing this for a while is because There were a couple of things that that we wanted to add mostly just around the process for Proving a curb cut And Stephanie saw it on our agenda and said hey the planning commission or the Conservation commission is interested in this topic. Would you let us work on it? So I asked her if she would Review it against the statute, you know as a favor since they're going to open it up Is it current generally? and then also You know, what do you want to propose? So they're going to come back to us This is just the teeing up an awareness For all of us that they're going to come back to us You're mostly done and we can and we've been carrying this I think for more than a year as a future agenda item. So The goal is you're going to bring us a I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you're going to actually make the proposed revisions and present them to us We don't have to do a vision city ordinance. Yeah The ordinance, you know was was signed in 2004 I read the ordinance pretty carefully and then I read ordinance is some other in some other towns And I thought, you know, there's some other things in this ordinance that need to be fixed Oh, yeah, it's crazy added to and you know, I'm happy to take stab at it as as a draft a proposal And then the conservation commission. Well, they meet like the sec We meet the first of february. Yes the first Wednesday of february and what my intention is is to have The conservation commission, you know, I'll give them a draft to something because we talked about everybody has ideas I'll incorporate them into something. I'll write it And then the conservation commission will go over it and if they feel like there's something Enough for them to say, okay, select board here. This is what we propose And then I also talked to joe about the process because of adopting it because obviously Really like you have revised ordinance. It's an ordinance. We have to go through a process. Right. What it's an ordinance We have to go through a process. Yeah, I was really surprised. I mean, I called joe and said, is this really right? All you have to do is put it on your agenda at a regular meeting. You don't have to have a special meeting They put it on your agenda at a regular meeting You can adopt it if you want then and then the citizens have 60 days to file a petition I never realized that so I read it and I called joe. I said, is that real true? He said, yeah 60 days to me the process is backwards sort of you adopt it 60 days it goes So they can you have to get a petition To to revoke the ordinance or that we've already done that we've adopted So to me it's kind of like a lot of things like that though. It's really backwards. It's so interesting It's like you do it. It goes into effect unless people object, right? Well, it goes into effect It's 60 days after adoption But permits are like that, you know a permit that's awarded by the the d rv or the zonia ministry or people have x number of days So you have to wait for the appeal process, right? So you just have to appeal but this is an odd thing But right anyway a petition you have to wait it out a petition And then if you get that petition within 60 days and it meets all the requirements Then you you have to hold there has to be a town. I think a townway vote I think that's good Is there a way of linking this to You know our other environmental Basically the other environmental documents so that it's more of a limit Like if we if we write these pieces into the curb cut You know into our Orden cross it. Yeah, then you Then we're constantly revising it. Can we actually I mean if we actually try to Link these in a way so that this changes as these get revised. It's not legal I don't know if you can't make a regulation that that moderates early updates You can't I was just trying to do something right. You'd have to come back and Modify amendment. Yeah, and the other and that's actually what this is. This is an amendment, right? Of an ordinance, but it's the same process. That's like a new one. Yep. You know, one It's been 15 years. One issue to keep in mind As you are 19 I think as you draft A lot of the curb cuts that we see our life of no raiders The real issue is they don't involve These issues. They just involve sidelines. It's true And it really helps us in terms of our workload if There's just you know, it used to be the road commissioner But we have to figure out how we're going to handle that but basically a staff member just goes out Measures is inside the sidelines there. It's non-discretionary. You do they are, you know, it's like checking It's like building permit. Yeah, are they or aren't they right and we want to make sure that we preserve Some path from the easy ones But some kick out For all the kind of stuff we talked about. Well, one of the idea we had was to maybe have a checklist Well, that's what we were going to do on the on the on the no-brainer. Just does it yes or no black and white And if there's questionable and if there's questionable then, you know Then the the road commissioner whoever's delegated the authority to review can come in here um I think that that is something for you to You know, keep in mind in your own thinking about it is Who who and how would the the additional dimensions be assessed right who would do that? Well, some town zoning administrators were involved in curb cuts. Yeah, and there's different process Sometimes they go from this person to that person. I think waste fields is quite involved Of going to different people. So I mentioned is definitely about the v71 standards that we generally use for site distance Those are in the ordinance that right That's that's what a lot of scanners is the safety that's based on Engineering you just kind of have those as kind of the boilerplate of site for the site distance and drainage All you know This is a different animal. It's actually a really good idea. Yeah, the question is how do you do in that too? We have to be careful how we craft it. I mean there's We do, you know, we need to be able to make sure people kind of access They're property. So We do this in a way that you try to you want to be able Out of a lot of blocks certain things. We also want to try to find the best I mean from my mind, you want to give some kind of function. We don't think this isn't just a Just stop people from being able to access it So I access it in the best place. It's correct. That's the plan this week it so that I think it's Better because there have been concerns that I've had Wildlife and wetlands and stuff like that. There's no way to address them. Well, and it goes back to conversation we had you know Frequently over the past, you know, many years about about incorporating our Efforts around environmental stewardship With you know, they're incorporating and integrating rather than having siloed Things around road maintenance or curb cut reviews Instead, you know, think about it more holistically. So this is great. Yeah, it is a whole road system and you can look and find the pass And it's been very destroyed. It's been really The environmental A lot of ecosystems in the state. I mean really bad You know from the interstates down and so this is a good effort toward You know changing that think the rules that rule this is So you think you'll know something for us for our first meeting in February? What is your first meeting? The 6th February 13th I'm not you're not meeting the 6th now. That's right. I mean like this the second and the fourth So the first one is February 13th. So maybe so we could so the 13th Yeah, Joe said also he'd be happy to look at something. Yeah Yeah, our two especially he wrote that read. That's great. We have it. He wrote that read. Yeah. Yeah It was so cool of all of us. It's the only case that everyone before the supreme court and it was Joe. We have it In the list for the 13th And then there are other meetings in February is February 27th So so yeah, so again tonight was really just for Stephanie to give us a Preview and make us aware of this Work that they've been doing that we asked them to do and that it's coming to Close hopefully coming to a point where you can actually Bring a recommendation to us. That'd be great. Yeah. I mean it would be good Yeah, what I'd like to just get you something obviously ahead of the 13th So that there can be a real substantive discussion. Yeah, right and there would be well We could somehow figure out how to if make revisions or you could make revisions or however So maybe if we can if we can allocate half an hour. Yeah, that would be good. Yeah, that makes sense. Um Okay, yeah, because we can make The board With the understanding that these changes are going to be May but we also have to have a signature Have to have what signature page for us design? um, yeah, and also Um, as I said, I looked at it and I saw some things on there that I thought should be Clarified actually a little clearer about the process. It's there You know, and I'm just wondering should I Should I go ahead and try to I think do something with it But we got to have it in time enough for us to all have a chance to read it So so my perspective on this if we're going to make changes in terms of who authorizes I would strongly encourage that it be the road commissioner with in collaboration with the zoning administrator Um, can I because um road commissioners charge of the roads? It can be a delegate. So what our old policy says is the select board shall And yes, yeah, so if it just says the select board or a designee, yeah, that's what the statute seems. Yeah That's what the statute said but not what our policy said Right. Yeah Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. There are things like that Yeah I sent a link to stephanie and the board members to the BLCT quick guide to ordinance adoption Mental repeal and it's got a checklist Yeah, you go through with all the all the timing and it does a challenge, you know process for a special meeting Stephanie, thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it's exciting. I really appreciate it something. We would love to see this Yeah, please make us there. We have like to see it done too. Yeah Neal here with mech So we warned this item tonight only as discussion because we wanted to make sure that we wrapped up The conference the last time you were here. There were a couple of points. This is on the Shade Tree preservation plan There were a couple of points of what about and yeah, but and And I know that you said in email you'd work those out But we wanted to give you a chance to just give us the update and we're not going to vote on it tonight So yeah, yeah, you said you had talked to dan singleton. Yeah, Dan singleton I think the most kind of substantive comments about it and I talked with him and then that with the conservation commission and the the two changes that came out of that or one just clarifying He was concerned about silvicultural activities That are kind of protected in some ways in state law And wanting to make sure we weren't stepping on the toes of people who are doing valid silvicultural stuff um So added some language that just says that the select board can't like Unreasonably stop silvicultural activities. Can you explain use that word or not spell spell the word spell the word S i l v i culture S i l i Yeah, it's all one word. It's all one word Just meaning Forestry management activities that there's no problem. It's all I know. There's no it. It's a little bit culture. I Dan these are Dan's. Okay. He was dressed Dan's issues regarding the silviculture. Yeah, so we um That and then he also kind was um Concerned that we were making too many trees shade trees that too many trees kind of follow under the under this rule that you'd have to warn them and then it was kind of burden the sum and So the way that had been On roadsides and road right of ways It had been framed as any trees six inches in diameter or greater And we changed it up to eight inches, which is a small change It's an arbitrary number at the end of the day But it makes it a little easier for landowners to kind of Clear out younger trees even if they are six or In this case eight inches or larger. They still can be cut with the tree wardens Review based on a plan blah blah blah. Somebody wanted to reestablish the traditional shade tree Yeah on a regiment along the roads. They wouldn't be 15 trees over 15 feet. You'd have one every 15 feet So if that was the plan someone might want to Meet that and provide the best opportunity for growth by clearing between right? Yep, and if those trees they were clearing more eight inches or bigger they would have to The tree warden would have to warn it for them They'd have to wait so that if someone had a problem with it. It would come before the slack board Yep, but it's still doable. It's doable. Yeah, okay So going back to Silver culture, can you just give up for the record? What so people know what's yeah, sorry Silver culture is the art and science of tending communities of trees to meet human goals And so the in-state statue they talk about silver cultural activities Okay, so the arts kind of art and science of To tending communities of trees to meet human goals Nice, do we have to define that in any way what would so somebody can say oh, I've got a silver cultural plan But I've developed myself. I mean it's defined in state in state statue Human goals We should reference which definition because I'm looking at a definition right now Silver culture is the practice of controlling the growth composition structure And quality of course to meet values and needs specifically timber production So silver culture according to that definition means you could cut them Every once I get to you know Yeah, I mean, I think I don't know whose definition that is I think the states is broader than that It's not focused on timber right so we should we should cite the definition of water But Dan you'll have it is it's as it's In here as accepted silver cultural practices as defined in 24 vsa 44 13 So the state statute has defined it And we are using that in page four One of the changes that's in red here So I think we can lean on the state for that Okay good And that you know if someone has a Say an approved forest management plan with the state and they're carrying out activities for that That involve cutting shade trees They would still need to warn them but um but the Select board couldn't Stop them from doing it without a reason. So here's something I just thought of The power companies come to us when they want to clear the lines or put in a new line And it says here Utilities may be exempt so how would so with the utilities if They're going to clear a bunch of trees should the tree warden Be involved in making that decision in the future the um in the past the utilities have been kind of Have included the tree warden moved me in and have been part of the conversation for that kind of stuff But they don't have to understate statute. They have rights to manage the right of way. So they're kind of exempt from this. Yeah statutory Did accepted Silver culture practices is really broad. It really says nothing. It says This is 10 dsa section 5401 It's uh parent one accepted Silver cultural practices means the accepted silver cultural practices defined by the commissioner of forest and parks and recreation Including acceptable management practices for maintaining water quality Unlogging jobs in vermont adopted by the commissioner of forests and parks and recreation. So Doesn't really do anything in terms of clarifying what is right What is appropriate and what is it we can't appropriate along our roadsides Well, but there may be there may be more in Regulation there may be Right, but you can't Can't fix to something unmoving thing. We need Find that regulation and import it and make that ours. Well, if that's the state Changes the regulation to make it more stringent 10 years after we adopt this You know, this thing is this thing is locked in time You can't say oh while they augmented it and the public was not aware they were okay with Our ordinance at the time, but then this is not an ordinance. It was it's not it's just a it's just a plan Well plan it's I mean We plan, you know, we cannot we're moving plan or we can or we can I don't have in front of you what you'll actually sense us but presumably the language that That he's just Shared is fairly whereas again. Yeah, I thought of it as aspirational It says the the select board shall hold the public hearing to decide the matter the select board may not Unreasonably prevent shade trees from being removed as part of accepted civil cultural practices As defined in 24 vsa 44 13 Yeah, I don't know if that's a different definition if the state has defined it in several places 44 13 um So I don't see this as really fundamentally changing this process but But kind of putting a placeholder in that that's that the select board has to be cognizant of you know Well, and then we're working under the offices of state legislations Well, the whole thing is under state legislation. So presumably it's already going to tie back to the states I mean their state john their state The preservation plan there's references to statute all the way through it, you know, if they come if they would You know, it's a big lift to tell Well, it's not in ordinance. So it doesn't matter. Okay. All right, right And it's binding and if the state legislation changes It still references right that language to both the people look and say I was going to update it right, I mean it's it's It doesn't bother me very much to be tying, you know to be incorporating from from the state even if that's a moving target because You know, otherwise we're going to be we're going to have a you know, 20 year old Well, we that's an ordinance. That's a little different but You know 20 year old think they're so out of step if people really have a problem with how it gets How what it means when interpreted through the lens of the state law then that's a conversation to have but Right, and this is in state law changes It changes too. And presumably that's a good thing. Otherwise, we're making it up our little town How many people trying to do so many things? Trying to make it up one or two to be able to constantly be updated. No, you can't the just for clarification purposes Since I brought it up the language in 24 bsa second 44 13 Uh, that involves so the cultural practices is identical to what I already write to you from 10 bsa, so It is what it is. Okay. So so I unless there's burning questions Um, I would like to we're at 745 I'd like to Unless there's burning questions burning questions. No, I just wanted to see if we could It kneel to clean this up send us a final one with a signature page For us all to sign and a date And then we can then we could sign and approve it next meeting. Okay It'll be consent on the next agenda. Okay, and then just kind of big picture the ideas that this gets adopted and then and then we move on to Kind of operationalizing it with an ordinance eventually eventually, right, right um Yeah, so the so the yeah the whole point of this conversation tonight is to hear about the updates to hear how the The concerns that were raised got resolved and yes, um, we'll get a clean version from Neil and then I will put it on the consent agenda next time Yeah, we haven't which doesn't mean that somebody can't say Yeah, sure, but we have on our february 13 meeting schedule that we worked on We have this again on the 13th to approve and sign. Okay Yeah, yeah. Yep. All right. Thank you very much Neil. Thanks for your work. Thank you. Nice work Nick we are ready for you Thank you step As you know if the town opened a shelter site if the elementary school That last big snow storm. Yes, you did and with lots of hope Red Cross They did not formally They were not formally assisting that shelter opening, but they Are available to do so and they've been in in october they came in and toward the school in the town hall and they recommend or offered to sign a facility use agreement with us so that The owner of the building so that if there were a really severe situation where we needed them to come in and manage the shelter We would already have this agreement in place. It's their boiler plate and so recommending that In the case of the town hall which is under the town and there'd be a separate agreement With Cal cell elementary, which is owned by the supervisor union, I believe Right and what about Maple corner community started to say, you know, we could we could help you with cuts and stuff We probably wouldn't come in and manage because the building's not large enough for them to To house their staff didn't quite have enough facilities So red cross so that enough corner communities and there's not big enough Not big enough for them to take responsibility for managing. They said this would be great for you to independently run But not to come up for that takes too much resource Disaster there during a lot of this so So actually I'm going to ask the question that I I should have asked for but I didn't have we had our legal council look at this The agreement. No, because we just got it and nick said that there's Printed it, but I forgot to bring it This thing you said to form. Yes, we should have probably have joe Yeah, okay before we and you said there was no rush. There's no rush Depending on what happens So yeah, so neck I apologize that we didn't think I I didn't think of that question before we should If there's yeah, so we should have run it by our legal council Before we sign it I think they organize Food and they have security, you know Someone comes and says i'll volunteer and they they're a bad actor and they They bring in I don't know all of what they do. I can tell they basically manage And do they does it mean that they're managing to give me more supplies and more They gave us cuts and blankets to use they show up with a big old truck We love supplies. So yeah, these are self-contained basically, so they're very quick to turn around I mean like in our case. We were on Christmas Eve very difficult When I was sick and we had I mean it was very difficult to even find people and resources You know people are very cross-connected very fast. We use them to rely on the operation center They tend to be the experts at getting these up and running really efficiently really fast And having the support. It's a very good thing We had when I was at my college of fine arts, I mean we had an M.I.E. To use the All right, the alumni hall which is a big gym and hazy to do just that side of campus. Thank you Okay, so So I look forward to our attorney, okay The document that you sent. Yeah And then we can put it on probably for next week next meeting the 13th I don't think it'll take joe on to look at it. Do people want it To have another discussion or do you guys want to have on the consent agenda? Is that okay? You'll see it's very simple. It's It's not legal we use it's Thank you Okay, cool We are Okay, so we are on the town meeting meeting Uh, we did the Curtis pond petition item and now we Have to um the warning look at the warning overall. I printed out the version. We got back from jeremy Yeah, that's what I had is that a reasonably good one to be looking at. Yeah It came in an email from jeremy I sent it out to everybody jeremy sent back an updated version Listen red lines ready And that came on at today at 3 21 p.m And looks like everybody got it Yeah, everybody did your emails Um, because we need to run this by joe pretty quick here still right so Actually, why don't we before we look at the warning? Let's talk about where we're going to have our meeting Right because that will well. I think mark you had sent something about It looked like something was going to pass on the legislature. Maybe tomorrow The legislature did pass it didn't think it's waiting for the governor. I was waiting for the governor I think I read that somewhere. What's the What I forwarded to you. I can't remember What you didn't have a bill number was a h I'm 42 It was x 78 now. It's h something or other Uh, I can get there x 78 would have been the previous one Um, and they couldn't extend that because it expired on january 15th, right? Something like that Um Is it h 42? Yep, you know tell me any h 42. We have an email It's called h 42. It's on the governor's desk. Yep. Um, Denise you sent us an email um On friday. Yeah, it was something from dlct. Yep And now it heads to the governor's desk for his signature, right? So I guess what we don't know is you know The governor you thought that was likely to sign it, right mark Well, let's let's talk about if let's make the assumption that it gets texted Let's let's make the assumption that it gets passed so where it gets signed So what this will do is authorize us We flip back and forth as we have new information So the last we heard there wasn't going to be an option to do a town our town meeting The or let me say in the way they've done in the last two years the only option for town meeting was going to be Um, I'll I'll pre covid and doing it in person now We flipped back to there might be um an option to do it Um Without having a formal town meeting and instead having an informational session where we um provide information about the warned items and the budget and gust moderates on zoom and then on On a australian ballot that's all these items people can vote up or down Yes, or no the difference being obviously we're on zoom not in person But the other difference being in person um We're taking the items up and voting on them At town meeting which provides opportunity for discussion and amendment to To the warned items The other way you can answer we can answer questions on zoom Um, but when it comes to voting people vote on australian ballot They vote vote yes, or they won't know on each warned item There's no way to make a change because stuff is already right ballot. There's no way to make a change so the question becomes if Assuming the governor does sign the legislation and we now have an option to do An informational meeting followed with everything being voted by us about australian ballot And we still have the option of doing in person um We we have to i would i'm gonna say we have to decide i just heard from the governor's office All right, what did they say action due by midnight thursday There's a discipline id bill review process. It takes a few days barring any fatal drafting areas errors Or trickery we expect it will become law On thursday on thursday meeting on the 30th bed the deadline I mean we are really we are really pushing the envelope for For the town for people to react for the for things to get published for Well, right to get stuff to the printers and get the ballot printed to get organized has to go in the town report Right to get to get organized Around a town meeting in person or to get organized around an informational session on zoom Cliff has always done that for us. I have no idea if he's able or i'm sure you would able to do it again I talked to him a few nights. I mean we're reasonably comfortable with zoom. That's that's the good news It hasn't worked out last year We did John I think john and I were here last year and everybody else was on zoom or something I think you were on zoom too. I think john was the only one here No, I think I was here because I remember all this stuff Okay, but either way we have to I think we have to decide it sounds like From that the governor will sign it. That's what I think we could it would be an option It becomes an option. So But that doesn't mean we have to take it so but I would like us to make a decision tonight on what we're going to do Um, can we do either way? Yeah, if we decide we're going to do it the way we've done the last two years because of the illnesses Can we condition a motion based on? The governor signing the bill and if we and if he doesn't for some reason then we revert back to I mean, I've gotten quite a bit of feedback from people asking are we going to do it in person? Are we going to do it on zoom? and people are really concerned about the spreading of this new variant of coven which is highly contagious and The current vaccines that we've had is supposed to not protect people From from that. So there's a lot of people who aren't even going to go to town meeting that probably would have gone before And I'm hearing that, you know, let's let's Be safe. Let's think about people's health Let's be safe. You know, you've got this RSV Going around which I've known several people who had that ended up in the hospital So I really want us to think about Yes, in person is the best, but what is the best option to protect? folks Others mark box You favorite in person John, I think you guys know Oh, actually, no, no go ahead and explore and then I'm going to turn to John I think that um I guess I'm influenced by the fact that right now COVID rates in Vermont are low by the fact that the legislature's meeting in person And that I'm concerned About losing town meeting. I'm so mine I mean, this isn't a situation where I disagree with any of the factors that Denise pointed out Nor do I think Denise Disagreed I'm just pointing out. I'm just pointing out. Yeah, I mean there they are I would weigh in favor of in-person town meeting where people wear masks But we can't require no we cannot require but you know and I would eat for us to be a super spreader. Well, okay, but you've spoken Anything you want to add? Yeah, John It's a tough one. I'm not a doctor I'm not a crystal ball reader um So my inclination right now is to go the way mark is suggesting um I think remote is awful I go to the legislature even though that I have the option of doing it remotely And it's it's a whole different level of effect um So I just think there's a problem with remote town meeting. I think it's a triage approach and I expect if something Dyer happens that beyond this legislation, which is too little too late legislature That You take over you're fully responsible Everything the house is All your fault now Used to be janets now it's yours everything I would expect that they Will come up if it's going to be a disaster in the making they will come up with some emergency declaration from the governor's office and they will stop town meeting Just like he stopped us. We could let's remember 2020 We weren't even allowed to go for walks with people other than immediate family And then it could only be one person. We needed to walk six feet apart Outside with a mask on and that was a governor's edict. So they have a lot of power um, so I I would go I Okay, yeah, you were five and a half feet. I heard so so I I would suggest we just do a regular town meeting And in the hopes that something serious really serious happens that the governor's office and Commissioner the department of health will step in Okay, rick I Really deeply believe in town meeting and I worried like you are but I've just gotten over COVID Six weeks ago and I am still very sick for this and I would It really worries me And I'm fully maxed and we've been very careful. You know, I put him I'm a big group of people together in close proximity I That really put some hesitation on me right now To take this on. I'm not trusting that necessarily We will get an edict from above at this You know, we do know this is highly contagious, you know the version going around and it's a long time until town meeting hits You know, so I still I mean, I You know, yeah, I really believe in town meeting. I wanted to do that I also do not want people to go through this You know this This this virus You know, we I don't want to be the reason we can't assume this private event and you know, so I kind of I kind of Lean toward going remote the last this last year Well, there you go Sure, you're right The people who have That I'm remembering Denise has mentioned she's heard from people, but I haven't heard from people And and in this juncture, I actually find that compelling, you know, I would like to have heard from people You know Directly if they feel that strongly about it, you know I don't know how many people you're hearing from I don't but but I'm not hearing could be well There's nothing showing up in our inbox And I would prefer that people not do that. I like them to come here the folks who have come here Have said that they would like us to do it in person Um, yes, that's what we that's what we've heard is concerns about our Our democracy and as we do it as we do it in small towns in Vermont and I I think um, I I find myself drawn to remote because Frankly, I think it's easier um But that's the wrong reason that's the wrong reason to do it remotely because it's easier for us is the wrong reason And if I weren't on the board looking for what's easier, I would be I would be, you know And I have you know, we've had I don't know if you were in townmark. Everybody else was and we we had You know, we went to the we went to the mats over Australian ballot or not. Um, and You know, that was a hard that was hard. Those are hard days. Um with a lot of very strong opinions, but ultimately we defended doing town meeting because It is where we get our work done as a small town. We can get it done other ways But it's not there's not another way where we talk to each other in person Have it out Have an opportunity to amend that's just That's huge an opportunity to amend Make a point Be persuasive among among the citizens And and have you know, change the outcome is so powerful Um, we'll have to listen to each other. They have to actually they have to listen to each other You have to you have to come you have to listen. You have to care. You have to engage by email It's not about email and it's not about, you know, us I think also it preserves that Idea that we did the best we can and we present a budget and gives people a chance to say Well, we don't like your budget. Um, and we really want to change it. I know this is super hard because I Yeah, I hear also the health concerns Um, I like the idea of we can't compel people to wear masks, but we can all wear masks We can encourage people to wear masks Um, you know, and I go back to something you just mentioned where Australian ballot and and this is the our discussion we've had at many town meetings Australian ballot does give everybody That wants to vote a chance to vote not just the people that go to town meeting I am a strong proponent of town meeting And having those in person Face-to-face discussions But you know, you also have to think about the people that can't get there the people who won't come this time again because of the health concerns we have a lot of You know aging population in callous Well, you know, and I I don't disagree with you Denise, but I I brought this up and I'm gonna bring up one more time to bear with me An anecdote from when I lived in woodbury Where at the time at the very least its school budget was voted on on the town meeting floor And there was a proposal at the time for a substantial Um increased his school budget. They were going to put a wing on the school And the if anyone knows the woodbury school, they were going to run the wing out onto the little baseball field For which we had photos dating back to 1909 people playing baseball on the field. It's that old. It's that historic and um So there was a lot of dialogue in town meeting and the the school was out of compliance with state um regulations um, and they anticipated a population spike that would get to like a hundred and six hundred and eight students and citizen on the floor asked the the chair of the school board pat flood Patrick flood So 106 it's going to peak out in a few years and that's what we're shooting for two or three years. Yeah Where are we going to be five years from that from then? You know like well, it's going to drop to like 99 and then five years from then. Oh, it's going to be down to 85 So we only need this wing to get us through Like a six-year window. Yep And so this guy lin gallison Suggested well, why don't we just build a We need one classroom more, right? Yeah, let's build another classroom We there's a spot behind the school. Let's do that and we'll do it like a community barn raising And they struck that significant line item was like six or eight hundred thousand dollars back then and this is the mid 90s and they instead You know put a much smaller amount 20 thousand dollars in there And uh, the community came together grieves building supply, which is no longer It's now pooling Donated buildings plus everyone came in and they built what is now the library But that was a room up that was a another classroom and they still put the elevator in which was another requirement So that's that was Really a moment for me to understand the value of town meeting Now had it gone to australian valet, it would no question have been voted down I would have voted against it And we would have been out of compliance and we ran a risk of shutting the school of the state shutting the school down They had just shut the school down and or threatened the school at albany school at that time. So I think town meeting is wonderful. That's a Good good story to give people pause if they ever talk about getting ripped. How do you Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree. I like I said, I prefer I just want to raise the concern that I've heard right. I mean, I think we've all said Everything that's been said everybody agrees with We have to vote, okay, so, um, does somebody want to make a motion I'll move that we proceed with town meeting as you Give me your person. I'll second that and you'll second that any other discussion All right, all in favor, please say I I Really No, I told you Mike. I I told you of my concern is the health risk I prefer in person. I think it's a much better. It was his eyes. She would say no, both of you I mean, you're allowed to say no, hold on Everybody they were unanimous. Well, I prefer town meeting. I just want in person And I wanted just wanted to raise the concerns that I've heard I hope to god And the information And the information that I'm getting from health experts in the area from playing field health center They're raising the flag if it's real It'll be shut down Well, no, maybe maybe And I I do want to I do want to encourage us. We We can't apparently require masks. Maybe maybe we'll be allowed to require masks We can put a sign up saying masks very strongly encouraged Can we provide them there? Yes, absolutely. We can and let's and let's provide a really good We should have sanitation that hand stuff good masks Really good like the n 95s and 95s. Well, we could have some of those and then the others because The n95s they're really hard to breathe out of you. They're not for a long period of time But and you don't want anybody to cast fog But yeah, but good surgical masks good n95s and then we should wear them If we're not wearing masks guys seriously if we're not wearing masks, we are not Encouraging if we're going to strongly encourage. I've been to meetings where everything says strongly encourage And then the leadership isn't wearing a mask, right? That is not a strong encouragement. So okay, so we so we voted on that Yep All right, so all right, that's a big decision. So we're going to do it in person um and now We you know, we need to what you want to walk us through the Warning, so I've been working on this warning. I think I'm gonna have about 12 different drafts on my computer um jeremy's last comments, I think are Right on so I think we should incorporate his comments his edits his edits, right his edits and that takes us to Article three that we don't need to do a town agent anymore um, some we have two cemetery commissions Those are from the floor Okay, if you're looking at jeremy's edits. Yeah, um Barbara helped me out with article 10, which is to check the date for When the second installment is due um, and I'll double check her figure her date and then I forgot how to I must have forgotten how to count So then this counted the It's definitely article numbers And then he added article 20, which is what we talked about earlier Which is the article for the Curtis pond dam And we approved putting it on with a friendly amendment. So I will add that peace But this and I found out today. Also, I learned something else new That even though it's going to be a voted by ballot item, you still have to put it on the Warning and then it just says by australian ballot so And then I need to get Jotas or jotas read it and sign off on it. So I don't know how you want to go about getting this signed Um, we have to do we approve it right now. We should approve it now, and then I could leave it tomorrow On the little table at the town office Everybody to stop by and sign Does that work for folks? You found something else, John? I don't understand what Jeremy has given us Where tell me where oh, I'm sorry. Never mind. I do understand So that's fine With me. Well, okay. So but I I'll put it out there Why don't I send you guys a email after jose looked at it and said, okay He's where he's looked at it and that's where because I had the question about I didn't know you had to put this on the ballot Signed and count the births Well, I was gonna I was I was gonna offer to I can do it through doctor sign, but But I've done that before you guys have gotten emails from me to sign something electronically, but you have to do it Okay, okay Well, jose probably not even jose. So look at it so that works well for you That's why no, I like electronics so you can do it tomorrow night Yeah, yeah, well I can well melanie's had planning commissions who shall have the car But you but you're gonna do it on the computer So, okay, so what I will ask you I'll ask you also is Use your when those come through to you. You can use your authentic signature Um, yeah, you can you can use your finger if you're on an ipad My My pdf has my signature that I've got stored in there. So it recognizes So that is I mean, it's not illegal for you to use a canned signature, but it's nicer It's nicer if it's your real signature. So if you can Find a way to use your just I sign. I have a file. It's my Me too. Me too Just talk you sign. Let me use that file or do I just have to manually It's it comes I don't know is it is the answer. I mean when I I Open it up. It gives you like you can use your track pad That is an option. You can use your track pad to to sign it or your mouse. Yeah. Yeah, okay, so I'm gonna make a motion So you'll send it to me Right and I will send it around for set it up for everybody to sign Electronically right and then when I probably do that'll be the last one and I'll print it off sign it and take it to the it's gonna come to Yeah, I can't remember it might go to everybody It will certainly come to me when everybody has signed signed it and then I'll yeah send it to you Right. Yeah, okay, and then I can and that's gonna happen tomorrow. I'm gonna get it tomorrow I hope so. I'm gonna send this to joe first thing to change. Okay, so that'll save everybody having to drive it all over Right. Yeah, that's good. So I'm gonna make a motion To approve the latest warning with edits by Jeremy To update the warned the article 20, which is about the curse pun damn Bond vote as we discussed earlier With the language. It's only a little bit of a sentence. It's just what it does mark because it just says It puts in the total amount of the project at seven hundred thousand dollars. Okay, and then I'm gonna send it to Sharon Who's gonna send it around to us to die? That's you after joe looks at it And he knows it's coming. Okay, and he's already looked at it So I don't think it'll take him long. So did he's just made a motion, right? We approve it. I'll second it. Do we need to put all that what we're gonna? I think we put all that stuff that we're gonna do in the motion. Sure Um, did you send it? He did. All right. Any other discussion? All in favor, please say I Okay Yes, I just remember I've just been assuming I have to go to all three town meetings. Yes No, we always just He asked voters if it's okay Yeah, I can follow your represents and Janet always came to us last Because we were going to have lunch. I was we're not having lunch this year because the lunch people Aren't inclined to do it and it's probably just another better way to not Keep mingling Um, okay, so the Other thing then is we have to do an informational meeting on the bond vote Right and it has to be 10 days. No At least 10 days or no more than no more than 10 days prior to To the to the vote. Oh, so we can't do it at our regular select board meeting No, because oh, wait a minute. No, maybe we can do it on the 27th Because town meeting is on the 7th So I don't think you came up to 7th. So you have to go back six One two seven eight. Oh, we can we can do it on the 27th. We can do it on the 27th So what would say you about an informate jamey public information meeting on On at 6 30 on february 27th 12 27 at 6 30 CPA info Meeting and I know um I'll go back and look at bob's emails, which tells us what we where we We have to post it in all these different locations and blah blah blah. So I'm willing to work with Jamie to Make that happen So so 6 30. Yeah, is that enough time? Yeah, I think so People who are super interested just yeah, we could but but guys, please write down 6 30 because sometimes We get surprised Can I throw anyone comment? the Curtis pond association will likely host Additional meetings. That's great. I assume we'll be here Okay, like to do. I mean the one you're talking about now will be here. Well, we have to do that. Yeah We'll likely host one Maybe an east callus one of the community center and we would invite You know the board of all or some or a couple depending on when you want more To join us in Our goal is to have three around. Yeah, that's great for you to do it if if any if we um if if folks are in I guess my my Gut is if three of us show up, we have to warn it not for not making a decision But we always have I know we always have so yeah, I mean we should be one native We're gonna I I frankly won't because Yeah, but even if both of them go Or if other people are inclined To go maybe get in touch with yeah, we just make sure that we're not yeah. Yeah, those are not three of us Right might go to song. Well, right because you'll be going. So there you go. So that's what he recuses. Is that No, he's still he's still a member of the board Well, yeah, see if we're three of us are gonna show up. We're gonna have to do a We're gonna all three show. We're gonna have to warn it. I'm yeah Do you think you'll be inclined to go to those meetings? Sure. Okay. All right, then I guess we should warn them Well, I'm not gonna go to everyone right right, but if we I think we could do a special Meeting agenda list the dates that you're going to do the informational meetings Just in case a poem shows up and post it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah But I want to make sure that they don't you know, that's us. Yep. Yeah. Yeah Okay, I mean would we be able to say can let's slide it to me Yeah, then we all should be good As questions Is it the only information items that is requiring an informational The statute requires us to have I know it's there. There's no other. Okay. No, and there's places we have to post it And that's stuck with being moderator, right? Well, he has to get elected. Yes, I thought you'd get elected for the next year Right, so he's still currently a moderator because we say for the ensuing year. All right I'll let him know that I made a note to let him know we're doing it in person Um, yeah, he probably should meet with him too. We've done that before we should go over the warning and stuff with him He actually uh, he emailed me and was encouraging that we do in person. Yeah, okay, um There was a It's on here, but I want to just make sure everybody's aware that we had a um an easement pillar fire department addition That we didn't have on our radar when we were working on the budget Well, there was an error on their part. Okay, but either way, right wasn't on our radar and Which item is that? the item yeah, I updated the Warning with the new number It is article number 15 Shall the channel appropriate the sum of 66 by 64? So it went up about three thousand dollars I'm sorry. It didn't go down And and what you said to me Denise you explained that it doesn't that is a separately worn item And it does not affect doesn't affect what we're voting on is a total budget because it falls under the category um social services where If all of these items get approved This is what the tax rate will be and Wendy's already taken care of making that adjustment for the document that will appear in the channel report but And when we voted our overall when we voted our budget here We voted the overall town budget made up of general fund and highway, and we didn't talk about Articles, okay. We don't vote on those the voters vote that Helen Hubbard library right Um They have the power to say no not 66 thousand 60 thousand right Yeah, so they could do that, but that is not included in our total budget item All right, this is additive it does it does mean I'm going to make a tweak to the numbers that went in our report And in the pie chart right and like I said, Wendy updated the sheet that will go in the channel report for the projected tax rate of all these special articles pass Okay, so um Let's look at future agenda items folks. We've made up weight all the way through our agenda for tonight And we're only at 8 30. It's 8 30, which is nice, but we started at six. This is true. Um, okay, so we did we did um a bunch of appointments and reappointments tonight, but we generally Well, no, some of them are carrying over the one years We we didn't step across the march line for the one years Which is confusing. So I wanted to re hit that point. We may have some more next time that we can do We there's a new president at Woodbury that we hope to invite to meet with us Um We may not have anything curt is fine that we need to do next time. I was going to say is there I'm not sure there is anything else, right? No, not the last the only thing I We might have is we might have an update about insurance. No, right. Oh, right. Right. Right. So yeah, we'll keep our radar open to that Right. So I'll put that on their insurance update Didn't we get information or I'm sorry. Did you present it already? Didn't we get information on the insurance that the The older carries. Yeah Yeah, no, jaymond gave us that I'm going to Do you guys Rick and john denise. Um, I didn't I should have asked that or do you Um You and Stephanie have been working on callous rodent bridge standards. I feel even though it's not seasonable I think I feel like it would be really important to put that background on the record Yeah, I'll talk with her. Don't you think yeah, let's yeah, she and I should do something I put something out there just so it's on the record and that we've hit it again before everybody leaves the board It's a super important topic Um rick and john, do you guys want to talk about producing kind of a speed limit up in next to you? I'll have that language ready to go. Okay Um, and then I'm going to make some other adjustments for your consideration to what well the ordinance we had in play There was a stop sign Or a yield sign We need to figure out what we want to do here. There was a request You mean the end of cunt hill road? That one. Yeah for the bottom right there. David ellen bogan. David ellen bogan We did also have a request about a stop sign at the base of center road and adamant village So I'll put that in there for you to consider and I would also like to uh Well, there's a yield sign that don singleton put Without running it through the ordinance at the end of singleton road where it meets fowler We should decide whether we want to keep that there So you're gonna commission just used to put signs up. So you're gonna update that and I'll update that and I would like to suggest that the speed on singleton road be Lowered to 30 from 35. It's a windy road 35 that rose 30 that insane road is 35 and Ours is 35 So there's that um well anything else and I would also suggest that you mean tucker has some sharp I would also suggest that the speed limit north of maple corner be lower to 30 because it's It goes to 25 to 35 and it's You mean on the paved road? No north North, you know, I don't know One day you live north of maple corn. Yes. I do dirt road I would I would suggest the dirt road be lowered It's there's a lot of houses. There's a lot of activity there And it's 35 after you leave the 25 and I was going to suggest that we lower it to 30 until you've reached the intersection of Uh robinson cemetery road and west county road Make your suggestions And you guys can say yes Put that whatever 30 and do vane camala road at the same time Okay, all right. We clearly have to offer or something No, but can you I don't I'm fine. I I think these roads should be slowed down 35 is freaking fast You're really it's you've been on vane camala road. So that would be 35 I think it should be 45. I think the people I want to see somebody go down vane hill going 35 miles an hour I know these road they they generically put 35 everywhere Yeah, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna work on junk ordinance. You're gonna write a letter I don't write a letter state not write jumpers asking them to enforce their law Okay, well, I still have that you're gonna bring a letter. I'll do that. Okay. Um, it's the junk ordinance It's not an ordinance. It's a letter requesting the state Enforced the law so I want to take we want to take our go complaint. We see I think everything here is still on I didn't cross anything on Um, and we got it a couple things are carrying over from tonight. Um, right We're gonna do the per cut language is on here or do shade tree, which is on here I'll talk to stuff the emergency next thing or emergency management contract. We're gonna keep on here Um A couple I skipped over around robin, but I do have a couple of items. I want to mention to you guys I got an email from the people who own land south of the paterson's on county road And The oh barb barb and bob Patterson. Yeah I think we all we all got this we all got it in december From julian goodridge. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah Barb Patterson like who works for so are they living? Yes She has nothing to do with this except that that this guy is a neighbor to them So julian good for barb. Never mind. I know does she live in julian goodridge's old house? Yes, apparently so they still own land next door And rick if you could look at this email from december 7th Here it is they he's saying We want to that the town is going to put a road sign On county road halfway between the north and south borders of their property I don't even want to get into the substance of this. I don't know whether this is a legitimate concern or not or whether I mean, we should put it where the town needs to put it Oh my goodness really the reason was you know, these are solar signs And we need sun if you go farther each way we end up in the shade And it's a visit. Well, we drove that road very carefully. That's what I think that site That's what I figured you'd say Is that the south corner of the lot doesn't work. I think i think rick should respond to the email So rick can you respond to that email? Yeah, if we trim the trees we got it from bar we got it from barb, but it came as a letter So if you got if you could just He gave he gave us his email address. So if you could respond to him and say That His point is it is significantly Affects the value of the lot. That's hard for me to it doesn't I can't imagine I would think they'd be happy that there's a sign there slowing people down right there Yeah, yeah, so they're hosting and doing their part from the small town that they Yeah, so if you could respond to him the other issue is I got an email from This is also for you it might not have been an email it might have been a text Concerns about There's a Calus trails has a trail on Max gray road offer max gray road on um, Paul Hannan's property Butterfield trails or butterfield farm trails or something that they're gorgeous trails if anybody's been over there But I got a text from somebody saying I use those trails. Um, could the town plow the little The little spot there is to for people to pull off into so that When people are using the trails, they're not parking right on the road This is the bottom of max gray where the trailhead is for those towns They're not they're out their town. They're callous town Calus trail committee trails On private property. There apparently is a spot where people park. That's not a problem the rest of the year But during the winter that little spot in the right way I don't know. I'm not going to plow this out of right away. It must be in the right away If it's like right there right off max gray road I don't even I'm not sure where that spot is. I suppose I mean we can certainly that's the guy's done Could somebody look at it? I'll send you a I'll find the text or the email and send it along to you to just take a look Where's this the bottom of max gray road where there's some callous trails and People use those trails and they park on the road and there's apparently a spot that could be plowed Um, if you have to I don't see a problem with pushing Pushing snow off the spot. Yeah Yeah, those are the two things that were on my mind to you Is it down in the curve? Is it below the The flat so you can get the guys for Yeah, it's I don't I don't know if I'm accessing those trails. I frankly don't access from that spot They're gorgeous trails. They really are so it's eight thirty anybody else got something else to bring up No, no, no Okay, are we ready to adjourn favorably say aye Great. Good being you guys