 We have absolutely no problem with peaceful demonstrations against anything under the sun, whether it's myself, my government, a social livelihood issue, lack of affordable housing. But on this particular occasion over the last few months, what we have seen in Hong Kong, which is totally unprecedented and unfamiliar to us and every one of you who knows Hong Kong and loves Hong Kong, is that high degree of violence? Let me just begin by saying that Chief Executive has agreed to do this conversation with no preconditions and we will try and make it as frank and interesting as possible. I thought I would begin by welcoming you, Madam Chief Executive, and thanking you for doing this. Thank you very much, Farid. This session, ladies and gentlemen, is also exceptional for me. First is this is my third consecutive time in WEF Davos. The first time I'm giving this honor and privilege to do a one-on-one conversation, although I was not expecting a CNN anchor to do it. It just makes it more challenging. The second exceptional is I'm sure many of you who have followed events in Hong Kong since June last year. This is perhaps the first overseas media, if I still regard it as a media interview that I have taken. So I love to be as candid as possible to tell you something about Hong Kong's latest development. So let me start by asking you something that's on people's minds right now, which is what can you tell us about the Wuhan virus, what some people are calling the China virus? How rapidly does it seem to spread? How worried should we be? Well, since we received notification on the 31st of December last year about this Wuhan, now of course we call it this novel coronavirus pneumonia. We have been putting ourselves on a very highly vigilant system because we learned from the past. I'm sure you still remember Hong Kong handling the SARS in 2003 and subsequently avian flu and swine flu and the MERS virus and so on. So we have built up a pretty robust and vigilant system to put ourselves on the guard. Now a couple of hours ago, Hong Kong health authorities have just announced that we have the first case of highly suspicious infection in Hong Kong from a passenger from Wuhan or from Wuhan via another city coming to Hong Kong. So this system which has been put in place for almost three weeks now will now be put into actual action. I have asked my health colleagues to be really on the guard because public health is so very important to the community and with this rapid flow of people across the border, it makes Hong Kong even more vulnerable should this disease spread. So I want to assure you that we have a system, we have a protocol, we have the resources, we have the isolation facilities in our public hospitals as well as in some of the makeshift isolation facilities making use of holiday camps if quarantine is needed for some of those in close contact with this particular passenger through our very effective contact tracing. But finally the most important point is to keep people informed. So openness and transparency are important features in any public health system and we have been doing almost daily media reports but from tomorrow onwards at a particular time of the day my health colleagues will come out to share with the community the latest situation. All right now to the to the larger stuff. I saw somewhere that you said you weren't sure what the protesters were still protesting about in Hong Kong given that you have withdrawn the extradition bill and made clear that it is a dead letter. From my reading of the situation they are protesting for other things now, independent police commission, a kind of full democracy that they were protesting for during the umbrella protests. Of course your resignation. So at this point it seems as though you know there is this irresistible force of the protesters with a lot of public support and there is the immovable object of Carrie Lam. What is going to happen? Well let me first put this in the Hong Kong context. We are very used to protests and demonstrations. On a annual basis the police has to handle over 10,000 such events whether they are public assemblies, protests, marches or what we call the POEs, the public order events. We have absolutely no problem with peaceful demonstrations against anything under the sun whether it's myself, my government, a social livelihood issue, lack of affordable housing. But on this particular occasion over the last few months what we have seen in Hong Kong which is totally unprecedented and unfamiliar to us and every one of you who knows Hong Kong and loves Hong Kong is that high degree of violence that totaled this respect for differences in opinion that people were beaten when they hold a different opinion from some of these protesters or rioters. So to simplify all these protests as just fighting for democracy and for continued freedoms may have underestimated the situation. So similarly for the governments who provide a political response because the protesters or these rioters wanted to see a particular response will not be a very prudent way of ensuring Hong Kong's future and public interest. So every political demand has to be fully assessed against several important principles. One whether it goes against this very important principle of one country, two systems. That is important to ensure Hong Kong's continued stability and prosperity and also whether it will continue to enable us to preserve the rights and freedoms enjoyed by everyone in Hong Kong. Not just the protesters and rioters. What about the bystanders? What about the families of policemen who have been intimidated and harassed throughout these months? Another principle is a rule of law to demand the chief executive to ask the secretary for justice to grant an overall amnesty to everyone arrested over the last few months is totally inconceivable in the context of a rule of law which we hold so dearly in Hong Kong. And finally I could not agree to demands that simply will destroy Hong Kong's well-founded institutions whether it is the judiciary the law enforcement agencies the mass transit railway corporation which is represented in my delegation the airport authority and even the freedom of a press. While the media may be very unhappy with some of the things that the policemen have done during the course of operations amidst very difficult circumstances with over 10,000 patrol bombs strong at them or seized from university campuses and policemen being injured with corrosive liquid and the arrow being intruded into the lake of a plainclothes policeman. So against those odds if the media is unhappy that they have been treated not as decently as they would like to see we will improve it the police has promised that they will improve it through the public relations officer but it is very important to ensure that the media is as free as liberal as possible to report on this events so despite pressure I can tell you if I read this I have I face a lot of pressure not from the protesters from the anti-protest camp that I should control the journalists I should make sure that everybody comes to my office or the police office for an identification document before they could go down to the site to report. I rather not because that would destroy on the mind one of the institutional strings in Hong Kong that is a freedom of the media. But if one views it just from this very technical point of view it seems to me it misses this larger upsurge that seems to be happening in Hong Kong. I saw written across Central Square you taught us during the umbrella movement that peaceful protests don't work this seems to harken back to that and it is about this fundamental issue of will Hong Kong have what the protesters regard as genuine democracy it seems that they have an enormous amount of public support between you know if you look at the mass rallies if you look at public opinion polls and if you look at the most recent elections right where 17 out of 18 of the of the constituencies flipped doesn't that tell you that this is something larger and that it has to be dealt with in a more in a more fundamental way that people in Hong Kong are scared that what makes the city special is going to go away. Now what makes the city special will not go away those rights and freedoms and shine under the basic law under one country two systems will be fiercely safeguarded not only by myself and my government but also by the central government. Time and again the leaders have said that they want Hong Kong to succeed under one country two systems because that is such an innovative way that were devised to solve a historical problem in Hong Kong and to ensure Hong Kong's stability. But I would agree with you that in a free society like Hong Kong there is something missing and that is in your terminology the genuine democracy in my terminology that is democracy that is within within the constitutional framework because Hong Kong is not a state. Hong Kong is a special administrative region within the People's Republic of China. We have a basic law that on the one hand given gives us the freedoms the independence of judiciary. On the other hand it has certain safeguards to make sure that the constitutional development is something that is acceptable within that context. You mentioned that you think that these freedoms will be guaranteed by the central government in Beijing. Can you on the basis of your conversations with them say that it they have categorically ruled out a Tiananmen square style crackdown in Hong Kong? Well while people focus on what has happened I'm sure you watch the TV and got your own images and video clips which I would suggest that you perhaps need to look at the other side of the reporting. While people focus on what has happened in Hong Kong I would tell you something that has not happened in Hong Kong in the last seven months. There's a massive bloodshed bloodshed on Hong Kong streets that some wanted to see has not happened in Hong Kong. The presence of the People's Liberation Army these trips on Hong Kong streets has not happened in Hong Kong except on one occasion when the garrison came out to do voluntary work to clear the blockage on the roads a curvil has not happened in Hong Kong. I have that authority to declare curvil to stop people's freedom of movements and go into offices. Has not happened in Hong Kong. And will you say that the gagging of the media which some are wearing has not happened. That's passed. You guarantee it won't happen in the future. As I said if everybody is committed to one country two systems like what the central government has then one country two systems means all these freedoms and rights and shrine in a basic law. What do you think people in Hong Kong don't understand about the central government in Beijing. I wouldn't say everybody don't understand. Hong Kong is a very open free and diverse society. I think although we have been reunified with with the mainland of China for 20 almost 23 years this accurate understanding of one country two systems and the full implementation of one country two systems has room for improvement. For example if one saw scenes of young people waving the American flex the UK flex and seeing young people forming themselves into parties to advocate independence of Hong Kong you could not say that they understand one country two systems. If we have the pan democratic legislators telling people that a piece of legislation called the national anthem act is a piece of evil legislation that is not understanding of one country two systems. If we have young girls 15 age defaced the national flag and threw it into the Victoria Harbour that could not be a true understanding of one country two systems. There is good reporting that suggests and you can confirm that you were not ordered by Beijing to propose the treaty that is at the source of all that I'm sorry there's good reporting that Beijing did not force you to put the law that is at the heart of all these protests that has now been withdrawn the extradition law that it was your idea. I'm wondering what were you thinking because it was it an attempt to show Beijing that you were more loyal you were loyal to them what was why did you do it. Well first of all I can confirm what you have just mentioned as I did on several occasions this piece of legislative proposal was initiated by the Hong Kong as our government of course not by myself I got a team of security colleagues and justice colleagues who have looked into the situation so but once we have suggested since it will touch on the mainland arrangements we have the support of the central government all the way in processing this piece of legislation because towards the latter stage people said that okay if you want to do surrender fugitive offenders to other parts of the world as well as to mainland we need more human rights safeguards so we asked the central government whether we should we could put into the law more safeguards along the lines of the ICCPR and they said yes so this is what I said that we initiated the central government understood and supported us in doing so. Now coming to your question why did we do it we are very conscientious bunch of officials there are certain inadequacies in our legal regime when it comes to the surrender of fugitive offenders or when it comes to mutual legal assistance on criminal matters as far as the letter there is a geographical limitation that Hong Kong could not have anything to do in terms of providing mutual legal assistance for criminal cases with other parts of China that is mainland Macau Taiwan absolutely nothing we couldn't do anything to combat cross-border crime because of that geographical constraint in the law in the legislation on the other hand for the surrender fugitive offenders or extradition the law only allows us realistically to do it with those we have signed an agreement and we have signed only 20 extradition agreements since many many years ago but as you know now international crimes take place all over the world so we look wrong into other legal regimes and discover that we do have a system which I believe is based on the UK system to do such extradition on a case-by-case basis without the need to sign an agreement but each case has to be endorsed by the court before the chief executive could sign on a certificate to surrender and if we believe and I think we should believe because there are so many distinguished judges overseas involved in a court of final appeal in Hong Kong that courts in Hong Kong are independent then there is sufficient safeguard to assure you that each case of application of surrender of a fugitive offender we have to go through this independent court various levels the high court the court of final appeal and so on before the chief executive could sign on it so I'm telling you a bit of the the background because we are not doing it suddenly because we want to appease somebody I want to get some credit from somebody is because we have all these documented as deficiencies in our system and it was also challenged by fatac the faction the financial affairs task force of g7 and g20 that that is a very significant deficient in the Hong Kong legal system when it comes to any anti-money laundering because you can't do cross-border mutual legal assistance and and so on so it is with that background which is not just happened last year that background was documented in the government files for a long time somebody should somebody should have that that sort of due diligence to to deal with this but I have to say that everybody knows their sensitivity so government officials tend to have inertia so nobody one wanted to touch this unless this murder case came around there's a murder case in Taiwan involving two Hong Kong permanent residents one killed the other and then fled back to Hong Kong and the Taiwan authorities originally asked her very solemnly for us to surrender him back to Taiwan for trial but because of the limitations we couldn't do it so in a way prompted by this high profile case we decided to take up this challenge and but I would I would confess that is now proven to be a political failure partly because of the nature of the matter and partly because of a very obsolete PR machinery of the Hong Kong as our government especially faced with the world-class propaganda to challenge us do you think though that have you learned something about the sensitivities of the Hong Kong people in the way they have responded to this law that again it seems that the law is a symbol of a fear that there one country's two systems has been slowly eroded by the reach of Beijing's legal administrative intelligence apparatus well I certainly have I have learned I learned a lot that's why when people ask me to resign I said can I hang in to practice what I have learned so that we can I can live behind a better infrastructure for Hong Kong in dealing with challenges in future years I have learned that despite as I said 23 years after reunification we have not helped the people Hong Kong to better understand this very unique arrangement we perhaps have not done enough in that in national education especially amongst young people so I have a better understanding of what China is about and we have perhaps underestimated the grievances of people which are not uncommon in other places where we have seen riots in recent years of all sorts of things the lack of economic opportunities for people with different backgrounds and different skills the lack of diversification in our industries is mainly a financial center trading hub is about the affordability of housing which I'm sure Hong Kong is almost a waste when it comes to buying Madam Chief Executive when I asked the protesters and I've had a few on the program they all say don't get fooled by all that this is about democracy well I did not I did not deny that I'm just giving you a fuller picture of what I've learned about the people's sentiments and I think nobody would deny that this housing problem this gap between the rich and the poor this concentration of wealth in the certain proportion of a population are all part of that that problem your approval rating is now at 14 percent it it must be very difficult to operate under those circumstances you privately we know you have ex-ruminated about resigning why not resign well I actually have just answered that question myself it would be easy for it it will be very easy to just run away or walk away from a situation and one has to recognize it's quite a messy situation now because as you have said for a government with a very low level of support and credibility it's very difficult to to govern and to implement policies because policies are bound to be very controversial in an open and diverse society like Hong Kong but for those who understand the political structure and the position of a chief executive in the Hong Kong SAR leaving that position vacant will only create more uncertainty and confusion and Hong Kong now has several crisis to handle to manage the economic recession this continued protests and the political discontent and lately a public health crisis so I I do feel that it is that same sense of resolve responsibility that has motivated me three years ago to contest in the chief executive election that has given me that stamina to stay on because not easy it's really not easy to stay on do you think that Hong Kong will one day have universal adult suffrage a democracy in which the candidates are not pre-selected by Beijing but you know what generally speaking in the world would be considered a full-fledged liberal democracy or is that a pipe dream for the protesters no this goes back to the question that Hong Kong is not a state Hong Kong is not a country Hong Kong is part of the people's Republic of China so the political structure the dictates that it has to be within that constitutional contest and that constitutional contest has laid out very clearly that when we reach the ultimate goal of having a chief executive elected by universal suffrage it has to be candidates nominated by a broadly representative nominating committee so unless the basic law was amended that would be the constitutional basis for any universal suffrage and every place has its own election system in America you could add a candidate who have a largest number of popular votes but still could not be the president so that is their system we have a system that you need a broadly representative nominating committee a thousand two hundred members maybe it could be added to another larger number in future but it has to be broadly representative so it's not just representing the interests of the rich people it's broadly representative it has a labor unions it has a Chinese medical practitioners and engineers architects politicians and so on so as to nominate two or three we were Farid we were very close to giving universal suffrage to the people of Hong Kong in 2015 that was vetoed by the same group of legislators who said that they want more democracy in Hong Kong you know that this answer is not going to satisfy the protesters what is the resolution then as I say you have you have these demands that they are making and they seem unwilling to back down and they have kept kept at it and and you're you're saying there's really no give on this fundamental issue how will this end well how will this end will also depend on how the majority of Hong Kong people feel about Hong Kong Hong Kong is a wonderful place I'm sure at least many of the people I I met in the last couple of days came up to tell me that they they have a passion for Hong Kong they love Hong Kong they want Hong Kong to be well so if Hong Kong people have that same feeling and do not want to see Hong Kong further deteriorated into that sort of state not only economically but also socially then I think we have a better chance to find or chart a way forward of course I'm not suggesting that the government should do nothing and stand still we are about to announce the setting up of a review committee an independent review committee so look into the courses of this sustained social unrest and to identify all these underlying issues deep see the problems including some of those may be related to one country two systems and map our way forward we are continued to engage with the people dialogues have taken place although we couldn't do it on a televised public way because whoever now associates with the government or speaks with the government will be intimidated and harassed by the protesters on the netizens but we'll continue to do that and even before I have a review report with recommendations in front of me we are doing whatever we could in making housing more affordable for the people of Hong Kong in introducing more livelihood measures which I did a week ago to provide a better retirement protection for elderly people and to provide better terms of employment for their non skilled labors in Hong Kong but I have I have this to assure you finally that nothing is more important than the rule of law in Hong Kong the rule of law has to be sound and well because it underpins all the successes and stability that Hong Kong people as well as the central authority would like to see you said you have met three times with Xi Jinping yes do you believe that that he is committed to maintaining the one country two systems and letting Hong Kong have this special status that it has definitely definitely one is because this is as you know Chinese people have saying that whatever your promise this is more than any contract I got some business people here is that once you have promised something you should honor that regardless of the difficulties without even the need to sign on a piece of paper so I I have received very clear messages from presidency himself from other central leaders that one country two systems is almost sacrosanct but of course as I put down a qualifier it has to be accurately understood and fully implemented in other words not at will or arbitrarily implemented second thing is Hong Kong is still a valuable asset to to China it is a wonderful gateway between the mainland of China as well as the rest of world it is still a wonderful financial center for a lot of Chinese enterprises to go out half of the companies listed on a stock exchange are mainland companies accounting for 70 percent of the market capitalization we are providing funds offshore mmb and a lot of other things which will contribute to the continuous opening up and reform of the Chinese economy so don't don't don't take for granted the value of Hong Kong to the people's republic China you've alluded in some of your comments to the idea that there might be some outside forces that are involved in organizing or supporting the protests in Hong Kong as you know no independent reporting suggests that the United States or Great Britain is in any way involved in this do you want to clarify what you meant by that well I can only say that our first of all I I I never sort of point finger at any outside parties that they were a party to what we have seen in Hong Kong but the facts are telling from the day we started this exercise to contemplate this bill there have been a lot of interest from America from politicians to officials and and so on I have seen many occasions of my sort of anti-government legislators going to America to plead for their intervention into Hong Kong affairs I have seen many young people who have asked foreign governments to sanction the Hong Kong as our government and senior officials and but that doesn't mean the government has done that anyone can petition that's why I'm not drawing conclusive decision out of that I'm just telling Shelling with you that something that should be quite domestic in Hong Kong has attracted a lot of external attention and association with the protesters and the parties who have been arranging all these activities finally if you had let me ask you this way if you could talk to the protesters if they were listening to you right now what is it you want to say to them we can sit down and talk but please treasure Hong Kong don't destroy Hong Kong do you think that Hong Kong can be preserved beyond 2047 the point at which one country two systems expires before I answer your question I clarify when you said protesters I have nothing I have no difficulty with the peaceful protesters as I mentioned what I said about don't destroy Hong Kong is really the violent protesters and I'm sure we're all shocked by the degree of violence that we have seen now 2047 people refer to this as the D day or the deadline that need not be so because in the basic law it only refers to 50 years unchanged as far as a capitalist system and the way of living in Hong Kong so my proposition is if one country two systems works well to the satisfaction of the central authorities and the Hong Kong people meeting the wishes in the basic law which is Hong Kong is an inseparable part of the People's Republic of China then you have to ask why should we change it yeah so with that I hope that it will go on well forever Carrie Lam pleasure to have you yeah thank you very much