 to catch up on there's alpha geek radio is going live. I mean alpha geek media, but I sometimes call it radio anyway, because that's what I'm used to calling it now. Wow. You should really think about changing careers, Tom. From singing to something else. No, I meant from podcasting to singing. Yeah, or whatever that was. Yes, or that I'm not sure what it was, but yeah. Okay, so yeah, we'll be late and early at the same time, late for what we wanted to do, but early for what we were going to do. Before we changed our mind. Okay, everybody ready? I was born ready. Here we go. This is your captain speaking. I'd like to take a moment to remind you that this show is brought to you by listeners like you who give value for value to show your support. Go to daily tech news show dot com slash support. We know you have a choice when it comes to getting your tech news. And on behalf of the crew, I thank you for choosing the Daily Tech News show. This is the Daily Tech News for Tuesday, November 24th, 2015. I'm Tom Merritt joining me today. Mr. Patrick Beja, DTS contributor and independent podcaster. That means no ties, no ties that bind you, Patrick Beja. No ties bind me except those of the French administration that handles tax and VAT. As you may notice, Patrick has been dealing with setting up his business entity recently quite a bit. And the problem is, you know, this thing that we're doing, especially from France using an American service is really the first time that this has been done that way. And I've had, you know, discussions with Patreon and they confirmed that no actual company has had to request all of the things. No company from Europe has had to do all of this. So we're discovering all of it together. It is so exciting is the word I should use. Yes. Yes, it'll go down in history. You know, I'm, I think the patches of hair that I've been pulling out are starting to show. This is how lobbyists are born because people like you get frustrated with issues like this and then hire someone else to go take care of it. I can't wait for the Patreon podcasters lobbying team to be. Yes, absolutely. Hear that, Jack? All right, let's also do some headlines. Dell has apologized for shipping PCs with that security certificate we were talking about yesterday that can be used by attackers to impersonate secure websites because they use the same key for the certificate on every place that it shows up. Dell says the certificate was associated with Dell Foundation Services as part of a support tool that was intended to make it easier for support personnel to help customers. It wasn't ad where it wasn't malware says Dell. Dell even thanked Hannobock, Joe Nord and Kevin Hicks in their blog post for bringing the threat to the company's attention. Dell has issued an uninstaller app as well as giving you instructions if you would rather remove the certificate manually and you can find out if your Dell has the certificate at all by visiting bogus.lessonslearned.org, which is not affiliated with Dell. That's a security researcher's site. Perfect reaction, I think, given the circumstances. So let's command Dell for the reaction. We don't know about the actual certificate issue. Yeah, and Dan Gooden points out like, well, I'd like to know how this happened in the first place because this sort of thing shouldn't have happened. It should have been a thing. But yes, in retrospect, after that question of why did you let this happen, Dell, they are doing the right things today saying, hey, here's what it was. We're really sorry. Thank you guys who pointed this out, not hammering the guys who pointed that. Yeah, I think that's the most important thing. Actually saying you did your job. Thank you. This was valuable and useful and not saying, you know, wagging the finger. Yeah, absolutely. If you own a Pebble Time, Time Steel, or Time Round and use AT&T, you can update your watch to new beta software that lets you reply to texts from your watch with voice or a preloaded message. Then what he'll be about their post about this is Pebble said, the first non-Apple watch to do this. You know what? If it actually is the first, I think it is. Is it the first on iOS or is it on all? Because I'm pretty sure that the Android Wear lets you do that. I guess it's the first on iOS. Yeah, right. So in this case, yeah, it's good. I'm not sure why anyone would use any watch other than an Apple Watch or a Pebble, I guess, on iOS. But yeah, good for you. It's good that, you know, Pebble is getting these kinds of capabilities on iOS as well. Yeah, it's a great capability for Pebble. It does get less impressive. The more it's like a Pebble that had to be bought this year and you have to have AT&T as your phone service. Like, so it starts to, yeah, yeah. Xiaomi launched its first all-metal devices, the Redmi 5.5-inch Note 3 and the 7.9-inch Mi Pad 2 tablet. The Redmi Note 3 phone has a fingerprint sensor on the back, 4,000 mAh battery and runs MIUI 7 in silver, gold, or dark gray colors that the phone is, not the OS. You can make the OS whatever color you want, I guess. It sells for RMB 899 for the 16GB version or RMB 1099 for the 32GB version. RMB 1099 in Chinese currency is about $172 U.S. The Mi Pad 2 has an Intel processor, 6,190 mAh battery, with fast charging support, a reading mode that cuts out that annoying blue light that you've been reading so much about on your local news sites and a USB-C connector. Tablets shipped in champagne, gold, or dark gray with MIUI 7, or in December, they'll be shipping out late December anyway, Windows 10 variant of their tablet. The 16GB tablet retails for RMB 999, it's about $156 U.S., and the 64GB at RMB 1299, so a little over $200 U.S., both go on sale in China November 27th. I wonder if the name Redmi is an act of patriotism in honor of the People's Republic of China, and if that's the case, I'm really excited to see a red, white, and blue phone coming out in the U.S. sometime soon. Yeah, or France. Or France, absolutely, yeah. Or do you do blue, white, and red? We don't do anything. We're not as patriotic as you guys are, so... You're patriotic in a different way. That could be discussed in another show. Um, Philip Shane... Oh, sorry, you wanted to comment on the Redmi? No? No, I mean, this is, uh, you know, no, new phones, yay! Well, Philip Shane wanted us to mention Jeff Bezos's Blue Origin Company successfully launched and landed its VE3 rocket on land Monday, November 23rd. The rocket reached a suborbital height of 100.5 kilometers, then made a controlled descent and vertical landing. Blue Origin aims to conduct suborbital space tourism. And Elon Musk congratulated them, then pointed out that he'd landed a rocket from much lower of a height on land before, and he has already tried orbital rockets to land on water. It starts to become a billionaire, fighting billionaire thing there. I don't think Jeff Bezos's Blue Origin responded to that, but this is a historic event, a much higher, I think it was only a couple kilometers off the ground that SpaceX's rocket took, which was still impressive. This is a much higher version of it, so it's kind of a next step. And when they combine the space rockets with their self-driving technology, we'll have... Blue Origin is not Amazon. You will not see them scattering Amazon packages from the rockets. What is interesting, though, is SpaceX and Boeing are going to the International Space Station. In fact, both of them have been approved for manned missions to the International Space Station. Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic want to do space tourism, so they're kind of in different spheres here. They want to do suborbital flights for space tourism versus things like service, the International Space Station. All the Blue Origin is involved with other companies on doing some orbital stuff as well. So, ZDNet's Ed Bot reports Microsoft has stopped offering its Windows 10 November upgrade, version 15.11, through its downloadable media creation tool. You can still get it through Windows Update, but the media creation tool was the one that let you go directly from Windows 7, just using your validation key. And it's only been out for nine days. Microsoft hasn't really said why they got rid of that. They advise users who want to get the update, 15.11, to use Windows Update. The media creation tool is still around, but it installs the July release, build 10.2.4.0. Microsoft has not offered any other explanation. If you're a Microsoft developers network member, I think you can still get the ISO of 15.11, which is essentially the same thing as the media creation tool version of it. But it's a little odd why they would have this out for nine days and then yank it back. It is very weird, and they haven't said, we've discovered a rare issue that prevents this or that. And I don't think there have been any reported. And then the update in general, right? Just the media creation tool. Exactly, but maybe the complete install that included the update could have caused a problem. And they haven't said, we'll get it back out once we have this figured out. Right. So it's very surprising. And it is definitely not a big deal. It's an inconvenience. If you want to install the fresh system, you have to install the previous version and then update through the update tool. So it's not a huge deal. It's just strange. And I would like to know why. But yeah, this is what the spokesperson said to ZDNet. The November update was originally available via the MCT tool. But we've decided that future installs should be through Windows Update. There you go. So a perfect PR person saying words that don't bring any sort of information. These words are all true. And you already knew them. But I'm saying them officially now. All right, JMZ668 wanted us to note that the ZDNet report that Amazon has reset passwords for some users after learning that the passwords in question may have improperly stored, may have been improperly stored on your device or transmitted to Amazon in a way that could potentially expose it to a third party. Amazon further explains it has no reason to believe passwords were exposed to a third party, but changed the login out of an abundance of caution. This is one of those. You almost are doing it perfectly. But because you started doing it better than some companies used to, you kind of invite people to push you a little farther. My guess is they found a vulnerability themselves that no one else has discovered and took the proactive measure of saying, you know what, instead of sweeping it under the rug, let's change those passwords. Let's just be careful, even though we don't have any evidence that anybody else saw this vulnerability. Let's just be cautious, change those passwords. Great job, Amazon. But now everybody's like, okay, so tell us the vulnerability then because security researchers want to know that sort of thing. And Amazon has not been forthcoming about whether it even was a vulnerability. You know, what was the nature of the storage? They haven't given any details about that. So then it makes people wonder, you know, what were they hacked and they're just trying to cover it up and that sort of thing. Yeah. It seems like if they were actually hacked, wouldn't they kind of have to say it even legally? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Well, eventually maybe. But a lot of companies don't want to discuss when they are attacked by malicious actors because they're in the process of hunting them down and they don't want to tip their hand. But then, you know, changing their password certainly does tip the hand a little bit. Yeah, your explanation and what is implied by what they're saying, which is there was a vulnerability. They realized they did something the wrong way and fixed it, makes sense. So it might not be the case, but it does make sense. Reuters reports that Samsung will provide memory chips to Audi. That's a Volkswagen department, by the way. Samsung said the chips would be used as part of Audi's infotainment dashboard. Those are Samsung's words and probably Audi's. As well as driver assistance apps. So if you're one of the people who's following Samsung and the fact that they make most of their money off chips these days, this is good news for the company in general because they found another client and it's in a fast growing area, which is providing technology to cars. Which you mean by which you mean infotainment? Yes, providing technology that enables infotainment across platforms, leveraging these efficiencies for our synergies to create a disruptive environment. Oh, you stopped at disruptive environment. No, I ran out of steam. Well, you know what? The Wall Street Journal reports that Apple Pay is expected to launch in China in early 2016. According to the journal sources, Apple has struck deals with four of China's state-run banks so users can link their bank accounts to the mobile payment service. Yeah, Apple Pay coming to the rest of the world. Maybe even China in February. Keep your eyes peeled. I'm hearing or I've heard that in some European countries, Apple Pay is meeting significant difficulties because the banks are unwilling to work with them. Well, and you know, we did have somebody say like, who wrote in, I think maybe he's from Australia. Sorry, I can't remember. And said like, look, anywhere that has NFC, you can use Apple Pay and vice versa with Google Wallet or Android Pay or whatever they're calling it these days. And that's true. But you also have to have the card issuers on board with whatever system you're using. And that can be the thing in Europe, which is I have a credit card through my local bank and the local bank won't support Apple Pay. So it doesn't matter if the terminals take it and I've got the phone to compete with it. My payment processor won't do it. I'm screwed. Exactly. Well, folks, thank you for submitting stories. Get in there and vote as well. We love the folks who submit stories and vote and help us put together the lineup every day. It does affect what we report on. So go to dailytechnewshow.reddit.com and that is a look at the headlines. I remember on a previous Daily Tech News Show, we told you that Google is picking select videos that they believe represent clear, fair uses, which have been subject to DMCA takedowns and they are indemnifying those videos, a select number of videos against future court costs up to a million dollars. Fred Von Lohmann had a nice post up on the Google blog about this. Now, they know they can't offer legal protection to everyone, but what Fred Von Lohmann says they're trying to do is build up what he called a sizzle reel, but essentially, you know, a number of examples of fair use and hopefully, if they get taken to court, create precedents for fair use that will make it clearer. One of the problems with fair use is that lawyers conservatively tell people not to rely on it as a defense and so you don't get a lot of court cases around fair use. People either settle out of court or they just don't exercise their fair use rights in very large amounts because they're afraid of getting sued and what YouTube's trying to do here is change that. So real quickly, what a fair use defense in the United States is and it's called fair dealing in the UK and it's called different things in different parts of the world and the law changes depending on what part of the world you're in, but since YouTube's in the US and YouTube is defending this in the US, the fair use in the US is based on precedent and legislation for judges to use four factors to resolve disputes and these four factors are a guideline. They're not legal items, they're guidelines for the judge to determine and it's all at the judge's discretion, which that's one of the things that makes it so mushy, is that even if you think one of the factors applies to you, you get the wrong judge, it might not, but these are the four factors. The main one you'll always hear about and it is actually a Supreme Court precedent that it is the primary factor to be considered is the purpose and character of your use. Are you transforming the original property? Are you adding value? Are you criticizing it? Are you commenting upon it? That's the one you hear about the most. There's also the nature of the copyrighted work. If the copyrighted work is a list of facts, then you have more fair use defense in using it because facts are in the public good. Also, if it's unpublished, you're going to have a harder time proving fair use than if something is published because an author has the right of first publication. Obviously, the amount you take applies. You can't take the heart of the work, although, again, there's no clear like three seconds or any limitation like that legally. It's all up to the judge's discretion. And then there's the effect upon the market. Does it deprive the originator of income? Or does it undermine a new or potential market? Even if the creator of that original content hadn't thought about using it that way, if it undermines that market, a judge can say, well, no, that's not fair use anymore. What happens on YouTube is they have the Content ID program that looks around for copyright infringements. If you get a Content ID claim, you can dispute it. A copyright owner then has 30 days to respond or it goes away. If they respond and say, no, we're disputing that you own that copyright, you can appeal it. And then the copyright owner has 30 days to respond. And that's when they respond with a legal DMCA notification saying you have to take that down. That is ours. At which point you can submit a counter notification, but the next step is a lawsuit. And of course, they have 10 days to complete that response, whether they're going to go to court or not. And they can go to court and get your video taken down, even if it's in dispute still at that point. So that last part is what YouTube is after saying, look, a lot of people are not going to submit that last counter notification, even if they're sure they have a fair use claim because they don't want to risk going to court. So in certain cases like that, we're going to step in and say, you know what? This is a good precedent setting case. We'll take over and we'll pay any court costs if you get dragged into court. And I think the most important part of all of this, which I'm sure everyone is waiting for us to say, is the disclaimer that your wife works for YouTube. So that is incredibly, you know, essential. And buy the t-shirt on the TTS store now. Exactly. But yeah, no, I mean, this is a real headache for YouTube because it seems very convoluted for them to be doing this and to allow the content, you know, the copyright holder to send notifications and even to, in their system, is built in a block of the offending channel in order to protect the copyright holders. And then instead of handling this at the notification or identification level, they're letting this run its course and then intervening at the, you know, at the legal proceedings level later on, once there has been a trial or, you know, a suing process put in place. And the reason for this is that YouTube cannot put their hands in the gears of what video is allowed to exist for copyright reasons or not because if they do, they are not a neutral platform anymore. They become, they exercise editorial oversight and that makes them legally liable. I'm not a lawyer so I might not be using the exact same terms, the right terms, but they really want to stay hands off as much as possible, which has created the situation where people are afraid of disputing anything because most of them are probably going to be independent creators, sometimes small companies that can't afford the risk of an expensive trial. And I think this is very encouraging that they are doing this. It's not going to change everything overnight, but it's them noticing an issue and trying to influence the situation in the way they can to correct the issue because the effect that this has on the YouTube platform is that it gives content holders free reign to shut down any kind of commentary or criticism or review which is one of the primary purposes for fair use which creates value for society as a whole. You have to be allowed to review or criticize or comment on pretty much anything for society to function the way we want it to function. And it's very difficult to do on YouTube. A lot of people have been expressing their frustration with those systems because they just can't use anything for anything including fair use without getting notices and the fear of getting their channel completely shut down if they dispute them. So it's a deal. I have followed the dispute process through to the point where the next response was a lawsuit one time and it was scary. Even though I was 100% sure that I was in the right you still could get dragged into court even if you're in the right at which point what they want is for you to settle out of court. Right. And then you've had to pay for lawyers and all of that. So Fred von Lohmen is setting up an excellent program here. It doesn't make me feel better though. Right. The idea of having to deal with content ID at all makes me not do things on video that is going to be on YouTube. I don't comment on trailers on court killers. We make sure that they're really small and I get very nervous about playing music because again even if I'm just playing a snippet even if I'm commenting and criticizing it I just don't want to deal with that. In fact I've had situations where I've had to fight content ID because I posted a video in two different channels that I own and it said oh well you're trying to monetize it on two channels so that channel has the right and I had to go to them and say partner hey help me out here. So there is a huge chilling effect that I don't think this changes because I don't expect that Google is going to ride in and save me and so I'm just going to still continue to play it safe. At the same time there are plenty of people who are exercising their fair use rights vigorously and the fact that they will choose some of the best examples of them to say you know what we saw that you got to take down notice we're going to indemnify you so keep fighting it and if it goes to court we'll pay your court costs we'll help you out there we'll defend you in court in certain cases if it comes to that I think that's a noble aspiration to say let's be a force that helps to build up this body of law so that the chickens like Tom Merritt start to look at it and feel a little comfortable because there's some precedence out there that they can point to and say well you don't want to assume me because look at this court case over here. Yeah I think this is exactly what they're trying to do you know they're not going to be changing the mindset of content owners on YouTube from one day to the next and of course you as you know small channel owner Tom Merritt it's not the day after this announcement that all of a sudden you're going to go oh I can do the right thing I was going to say whatever I want but no this is the important part this is the important part the content ID system is very important to protect the copyright holders but it's certainly I'm not afraid to say that it has been abused to shut down uses that should be fair use because not because of you know I don't think it's it's a ill intent on anyone's part it's just the way the system is built right now leads to these kinds of of situations however it was partially built to help defend themselves against Viacom in court so it it it airs on the side of not being shown in court to be helping piracy yes and we can get back to this in a beautiful ironic way in a minute but I wanted to come back to one thing you mentioned which was the fact that some channels are fighting for fair use and you know there might be some but I think the more general attitude has been to give up even the the medium-sized channels there was an example in a Mashable article of a few creators that were fairly well known there's for example the young Turks channel which is pretty popular they were saying you know what we've given up we don't we don't want to have to deal with this so it is discouraging not just for small creators but also for people who are starting to get pretty well known and who are making building companies and actual information networks around the youtube business and I think youtube needs these kinds of productions as well in order to legitimize itself as a platform so it's also another reason they're making this playlist of good examples of fair use is to and using the young Turks as an example by the way to say like hey don't give up we're we're gonna shine a spotlight on this and I think that ultimately or hopefully they will have it will have a trickle down effect that will tell content owners guys chill you shouldn't just blanket you know carpet bomb the entire platform with DMCA notices or you know claiming yeah and and I think that if this doesn't work I'm hoping that they are going to use other tactics to try and make this fair use surface back up a little bit more than you know it has been now because they have now they have embedded themselves in the media landscape and everyone is using them so no one is saying anymore youtube is just for piracy and we should make it go away they they're always going to be here now so maybe they can start fighting for fair use again at this point now on the other side of the scale you have youtube creators getting very upset that their videos are now being posted on facebook because without their permission and so starting to feel the other side of the story of hold on this is an infinitely copyable medium and someone's copying my medium I don't like that which is by the way just on a personal note why daily tech news show is issued under creative commons license that allows you to post it everywhere and we've tried to create our business so that you should post it everywhere and we benefit that way that's what patreon allows us to do say hey the more places it's in as long as you have attribution which the license requests uh the the better our show does so if you went and posted it on facebook that's great but there has become a mentality among people to say and the the good people the people like hey i'd like to use your show for this can i have permission it's like great that's really nice of you to ask permission i've actually made it really easy so you don't have to uh on the other hand people who've grown up in the youtube space have grown up in a culture that says no they own this you own that and so when something gets taken and put on facebook they justifiably and understandably say well hold on no you can't do that over there and now facebook is going to have to grow their own system to police this sort of thing this is the delicious irony of all of this it's you know youtube was indeed built as a platform of let's say remixing in the beginning and there was a lot of open posting really i mean yeah because it there were the we like to joke like youtube was built on piracy there was a lot of that in the early days there were it was also built just as much on cute cat videos which have no kind of intellectual property uh controversy at all no no of course i mean even you know the beginning of youtube was the the videos were you know the postage stamp postage stamp sized and it was it wasn't really i mean viacom had brought a case but i anyway the the important thing is that creators on youtube were sort of on the side of the you know fighting the big corporations that we're trying to own everything and like they we don't need these kinds of protections dude we can this is freedom this is the internet yay and now the content creators that have started making a livelihood on youtube as you were saying they're seeing their videos go to facebook being monetized on facebook and going like you can't do that no this is mine and i know it's not the same people necessarily and it's but it's just it's funny that this is happening this way and i'm sure facebook will will do you know what youtube has has gone through when they'll build a content id type system but it's just you know fun to notice that this has happened this is interesting to watch people who you know cheered against you know cheered for fair use and cheered against copyright crackdowns starting to see what happens when their own property is infringed and having to come to terms of well i'm either going to start cracking down myself or i've got to live by the rhetoric that i used to espouse and and and live within the realities of the internet and frankly i think that's just as hard it's it's very hard but it's almost excusable for someone who grew up in old media in broadcast media especially to wrap their heads around an infinitely copyable medium like the internet uh it's it's extra hard i think for someone who's been fighting for like understand that and to go oh wait now they're taking my stuff am i really comfortable with that yeah and and i am i i have addressed that that's why i give my books away as pdfs that's why we make dtns work the way it does uh because that is a fact of the internet you're going to be in a constant fight of lockdowns which i don't think is good for all of us yes no i agree with you but i think you're also in a very particular case which is very different from a you know youtube personality or company that creates original content that you know makes their money on advertising and the first two or three days are crucial and when that video appears on youtube they just someone just copies it to facebook and in the first two or three days it get it gets shared immensely on facebook and the ad revenue comes to them and that is a real problem you know not everyone can or wants to not as much of a it's an imaginary problem sometimes though because a lot of times a lot of times that video would not have gotten all those views if it hadn't been reposted and sometimes actually causes the original video to get more views not an ideal situation but it's more of an emotional reaction i think than it is a cold hard numbers reaction i wouldn't go that far it's it's but we need to see numbers on this song i want numbers where are the numbers that's always my my thought on all of these conversations is let's take an evidence-based approach let's actually put copyright law into place that encourages what we want copyright law to do let's decide what we want lot copyright law to do do we just wanted to encourage creation or do we want it to protect business models some people actually think it should protect business models let's have that conversation let's talk about how the best way to achieve these things is rather than just sit with what is essentially a broken system in pretty well i think yeah i think i think the one thing we can absolutely agree on is that the system as it currently stands on youtube discourages fair use and that is a disservice to society and it it's always good when we take a look at it i need to grab my gavel agreed absolutely uh hey our pick of the day comes from ted he was listening to patrick's reflections on netiquette the other day as he was strolling down the temescal alley in oakland sipping a hand-poor coffee eating artisanal charcuterie and stroking his absurd facial hair uh ted said i remembered as a young man in the late 90s i discovered miss manor's guide to the turn of the millennium a guide to the vexing vagaries of email bulletin board systems and chat rooms it was a very interesting and engaging read and i was able to see through the individual suggestions about technology to the universal rules of decency and he recommends two books for the kids today miss manor's guide to excruciatingly correct behavior which is updated with modern scenarios and emily posts manners in a digital world and we'll have links to both of those in the show notes but there you go miss manners and emily post both embrace and subdigital there so there's i don't know or what either of those are but they seem uh delightful miss manners is sort of self-describing emily post is an etiquette expert of i don't even think she's real actually i think she's or if she was she probably passed away in the 20s uh but it's she's a brand now and and in this post if you are real and alive i apologize send your picks to feedback at dailytechnewshow.com and you can find my picks at dailytechnewshow.com pics uh chris wrote in uh from chili and gray hamilton ontario was listening to dts 26 30 from november 23rd and heard one listeners email about drones being prohibited in a park in japan well last spring i took my girls on a hike at a local park and came across this and he had to show us the park sign which is interesting uh it actually shows drones use not permitted in the royal botanical gardens but then he also hilariously found another pick which is of the of a carving on the railing in the park that says john connor was here 2029 so basically drones forbidden but time travel permitted apparently time travel is okay in that park so uh thank you for sending those if you want to take a look at those we'll have links in the show notes uh or you can if you're a patreon subscriber that gets access to the treasure chest i've already thrown them in there as well we finish up with facial recognition served three ways got a lot of great response apologies if i don't read your response we got too many good ones uh to go through on the show regarding the conversation i had with veronica yesterday about retail doing facial recognition dave in steelville missouri said his dad's uncle was a county sheriff in southern missouri for many years and after he retired took a job as a wall mart guest just for fun or greeter sorry just for fun he knew a lot of people in the area and that included good and bad and he knew the criminal element and also who to keep an eye on when they walked in the store it was like facial recognition primitively uh but it did reduce the theft a little bit john from lovely so basically it was human facial recognition right it was absolutely facial recognition absolutely when i think of it when i think of it we all do facial recognition every day yeah so that's what i say i'm great with faces but i'm horrible with names what was your name again i do facial recognition that's what i'm gonna say uh john from lovely but chili ross on why says we call naughty people in the uk scallies which i looked it up short for scallywag and it used to just people mean people with hoodies and sports clothing uh and then it started to be applied to thieves maybe think however as a parallel in the uk many petrol stations use a system called shark which spots and reads number plates and warns the petrol station should that person have driven off without paying other petrol stations so i think it's a fair representation of what could have been done now i put this three ways because alan char asks i think the most pertinent question he says i have so many mixed feelings about facial recognition he wrote a lot more than this but i think this is the essential part i completely disagree with the idea because they're a store they can do whatever they want uh there are definite civil liberty limitations on the other hand he understands why an owner would want to do this to protect his stock now i wrote alan back and i was like well the store can do whatever they want because civil liberties are about rights outside the store and also you can't deny service to someone based on their race or religion because of civil liberty laws but there's no reason on a private property like a store that you can't put a camera up and that you can't then take the video that you have recorded and do facial recognition and alan wrote back very rightly and said well i think i think the law needs to be decided on that should that be allowed the way you know the way we do intrude into a private situation at least here in the us and say you can't look at someone's skin color or or guess at their religion and say i won't sell to you should you be able to say well i'm going to record your face and if you don't like it don't come into my store that is an excellent question which i'm not sure i or really anyone has a definitive answer on and i would tend to agree with you tom i'm thinking this might need to be legislated about and we have to it's it's really quite literally a judgment call we have to decide if this is allowed or not if together you know through the the means that we have put in place to make decisions for everyone in in our societies meaning either the legislative bodies or the courts do we allow this and if we do to which extent like is it okay to uh look for felons is it okay to look for people you've seen before and have caught in the act even if they haven't been uh tried is it okay and and this is something where's the line right exactly yeah so and the and the ntia has been trying to have those discussions between retailers and privacy groups that's the one we mentioned the privacy groups walked out on because the retailers wouldn't budge on permission the retailer said no we don't need permission and so there isn't a law that requires them to get your permission but that would be the next step for privacy groups is to push for that sort of law i don't love the idea of legislating it but i think at least legislation that makes it clear uh you know what that what that law could be might be something that's worth doing at least in places that have a working government that can have productive debates rather than just drawing party lines which is nowhere but i think one one thing to keep in mind as well is that it's not just about one store owner putting up a camera in their store and looking for people that he knows are you know offenders i think we have to look a little bit beyond that and start to think once uh systems have been put in place to put together all of these you know to network all of the cameras and the databases and where they get their information and you know then it starts to encroach on civil liberties because well then that's where right now they have to get their information from local police in most cases at least that's what that article said yesterday but that wouldn't always have to be the case some startup can start crowdsourcing a database and then it becomes all of those questions that you were bringing up earlier uh and whether that should be allowed or not so and yeah and and who is in that database and how it's applied and and even i would say you know you're saying some startup might start to do this i guarantee you a startup will it's unavoidable that it will happen i mean honestly based on our experience in the tech industry well Patrick only a sith deals in absolutes but i i think that's case your problem you've uncovered my true purpose dartha beige uh uh yeah you uh you folks keep keep letting us know about this it's good conversation i want to keep having it uh thank you to patrickbeija twitter.com slash not patrick and of course frenchspin.com to find his english language podcasts what what's the newest coolest thing in the podcast universe for you patrick huh i guess uh one that is not on frenchspin.com it's on a move.tv the overwatchers podcast uh i only do because i don't have overwatch beta access you you weren't invited to the stress test beta this weekend now i'm taken personally uh i'm sorry next time next time tom but uh to prepare in order to prepare for this you could go listen to the latest episode of overwatchers as i was saying on a move.tv because we did a beginner's guide to uh regale you with all of the important information that might not be a hundred percent intuitive when you get into the game and of course we talk about the game in general so that would be on a move.tv and my shows are at frenchspin.com there's a gaming show and the current events show from a global perspective and you can find that there thank you to our patrons who are getting us towards a sixth day of dtns based in australia peter wells from australia will host our our sixth day on sunday here in this hemisphere but monday for him if we get to the next level so show us your support go to dailytechnewshow.com slash support and choose your favorite way uh there are mugs in the store which you can still probably get shipped in time for the holidays and uh there's also a tom's wife works at youtube t-shirt though you used to say my wife and just changed to tom's today so go check that out dailytechnewshow.com slash support our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com and call us 512-593-2459 catch the show live monday through friday 4 30 p.m eastern at alphageekradio.com and diamondclub.tv and visit our website dailytechnewshow.com uh tomorrow headlines thursday a holiday headlines friday a holiday headlines but we back with a normal show on monday talk to you then folks happy thanksgiving happy day network get more at frogpants.com diamondclub hopes you have enjoyed this brover all right let's get you a title good show let's get you out of here to the rain room or the other room the infinity room infinity room how about can't you guys just go like in an elevator with mirrors and close the door and then you're in the infinity room i don't know i haven't seen the infinity room after i have then and maybe i'll be like oh you could just go in an elevator with closed doors and mirrors how about fair use tube i like self-driving rockets but it's not related to the main topic fair use tube isn't bad yeah i like fair use tube all right yeah i'm still looking uh trial by youtube you can't do that on youtube america's funniest home fair use lawsuits i also like Darth Beja but Darth Beja only you could be so bold does she know that's her dad what that's me watching a new hope as i as if i've never seen anything but the first three episodes Darth Vader only you could be so bold also i assume that she talks in an english accent uh in those scenes because she's making fun of grand moff tarkin i thought you were trying to defeat Elizabeth Taylor i don't know who that is because i'm dumb about star wars about star wars thank you for clarifying uh i'm gonna go oh sure sure i want to look like i'm the guy in the rush and then you just you know big time me by leaving before i go no it's fine hey i got places to be i got business to attend i'm gonna see you at that museum aren't i i actually reproduced my apartment in la just to surprise you the infinity room has very welcome dom i will i will just behind the mirrors and you'll just see me but you'll never know if it was for for real for sure and and then you know you'll be like oh it was Darth Beja all right always do you're a city all right all right thanks y'all by elie by roger by taterine i mean by y'all i mean patrick and all his person and my nice i'd play lovely life elie's beaten up on roger so fair you seem good i think we'll go with that yeah simple elegant not your father's title no have you driven a title lately actually i was going for a simple title from a more elegant no an elegant title a simpler time from a more civilized age civilized age see i'm rusty because i haven't watched them yeah i just watched it last night so it's not it's totally unfair no what if the infinity room is ironically named like for instance han doesn't say don't get cocky kid yeah and i can't actually remember but i think it's like hey don't get hey kid good shot kid don't get cocky or something yeah only a master of evil doff doff which as dumb star wars watcher i'm like man those two just won't stop bickering they just bickering through all bicker bicker bicker i'm evil now but i'm still gonna be bickering with you you know what's interesting though when you watch it in that order is that luke really takes after his father he's really whiny well they made a good point about that um in the honest trailer for the star wars like the whole star wars series which is that it is possible that hayden christiansen was trying to be whiny and annoying on purpose to mimic how luke was in the first movie i have an opinion on that that you can see in the next edition of pretend i'm dumb about uh but spoiler alert uh i don't think luke is as whiny as anakin but i but i see it sometimes you know and there's definitely uh parts of leia that are very padmate like like there's obviously some thought that went into that it's just how it was executed so one thing i never understood they never cleared in the movies is that luke wants to go to the academy is that like the imperial academy yeah why not that's what i assumed essentially enlisted in the imperial yeah but he was also kind of excited about the rebellion about hearing tales about the rebellion but you know what that's kids you're not going to go to a rebel academy you're going to go to the imperial academy i think it owns everything academy and then the imperial sort of imperialized it so probably has thousands of years of waiting in it maybe he just wanted to go to the army navy surplus store academy in austin texas he just wanted to pick up some power converters and like you know an old army backpack some chock-a-boo converters in big sliders the guy he ran it was his old friend that he met at uh when they were all setting up for the uh big dark lighter yeah big dark light i always thought it was big dark side and i was like whoa but he went but he joined the academy and then somehow he ended up with the rebellion that's what makes me think that the academy is like some theoretically vaunted neutral place where you go to learn things also the bigs didn't go to the academy right like we didn't see that no but i there's a there's a deleted scene that implies that but bigs obviously has already gone off point i want to point that what i'm saying is i think that the not that we have any knowledge of that maybe we do from the extended universe of the academy was like someplace where you just trained up to join the army and the navy it just so happens the army in the navy is taken over by imperials who have a very dark fascist purpose but i don't get the sense that it was inherently evil it's just governmental and the people running the government were a little dodgy well in lost stars the two main characters go to the imperial academy on Coruscant but maybe that's a different academy yeah i mean who knows but my point is that we what you were what roger was saying about bigs is only we only really know from the deleted scene but it's but you can it's also inferred well not bigs directly but that all of his friends have already left like is that what his and uncle say yeah but they still told everybody they were going to the academy they were enjoying their rebellion they can't we're gonna say that hey i'm going to join the rebellion the secret rebellion i'll see you later anybody i'm gonna have some seafood i'm gonna have some calamari oh god don't be a calamariist you know they came up with that name after the guys lunch like one of the guys writers or whatever first this fex guys was having calamari and he said we should name them after this oh my god i'm getting so hungry actually they talk about how that how the name was made in uh how star wars conquered the universe and i don't remember the story now but i'm gonna read that over the break yeah it's good 15 so i don't know if you need to go yes i do but i'm also waiting for the file to export so sorry that's all right you can't see the progress bar i'm gonna go ahead and stop the video though thanks everybody for watching and uh the headline shows for the next few days but we'll be back full show on monday