 Yes, I think I just wished our athletes the best and they just boarded the plane. I was at the airport with them and they're all very eager to come to Japan and I wish them and also of course my gratitude to Japan for hosting the Olympic with them. So we are now adjusting the whole camera with you, so this is for a moment. Okay, I will also do the same here. Is that your office? Yes, this is my office in the cabinet. Oh, really? Yes, we did not have a lockdown, so I still go to the cabinet for meetings. Yeah, it's a little bit hot and also humid and a typhoon is probably coming later this week. Ah, okay. Which city did you visit? Taipei. Ah, okay. I want to visit again here. Of course, we all welcome more travelers I guess and now with both sides more fully vaccinated. Maybe later this year more people will travel. When will it be possible, you think? I think it depends on the vaccination schedule of course. We're now very stable like every day is one percent of population, one percent of population and so it's pretty good speed. We are at I think about 22 doses per 100 person and so we aim to of course surpass 25 maybe reaching 30 by the end of the month. Maybe 20 something we'll see and then as we can see if it's one percent every day then the remaining 80 percent will take 80 days. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in mathematical use. Yes, but that assumes of course like supply is constant which for Taiwan's case is far from the case. So again, we thank the Japanese for very generous donation without which I wouldn't be able to have two doses either. Yeah, that's something we all face together. So we're really happy to share experience and also learn from you. Yeah, you wait two minutes. Of course, of course. Sorry, I'm sorry. No, it's fine, it's fine. So it's fine, it's fine. Take your time. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. So there are two, which is, I'm sorry, which is about Olympics and about Fukushima and we're gonna ask, I'm sorry. It's fine, it's fine. Take your time. We're gonna ask about reconstruction of Fukushima. That's in Japanese and I'm in English, so that's what we're gonna do later. Okay, okay. And my answer, because it's a TV audience, should that be slower so your interpreter can overdub my voice? Yeah, if you can, your English is really clear and easy to understand. Or like, as you are, but if it's slow, slow. Yeah, I can wait a little bit between sentences, because I noticed that sometimes the overdubbing interpreter will struggle to keep up and people will lose, like, when is the sentence, when is the next sentence. It's gonna be really helpful work. Yes, I'm also an interpreter and translator, so I respect my fellow interpreter and translators. Just visit. I did not stay for a long time. When I was in Silicon Valley, for example, it was just a few months. And then just a few months in Boston, a few months in Portland and so on. But I didn't stay for long. I stayed in Germany, but not in America. English ability. Uh-huh, on the internet. Just chatting to random people. Yeah, that was actually my first visit as an adult to Japan. Was to compete in the so-called pro tour of Magic the Gathering. It's a card game. So I was competing professionally and I won Asia Pacific Top 8 championship in Tokyo. So my English vocabulary is all from those cards. Those Magic the Gathering cards. That was my English vocabulary and that's how my conversation was built upon. Can we chat? Yes, anytime. Precious time with us and it's a great honor to see you. So let's begin. Could you briefly introduce yourself for the audience, do you think? Hello, I'm Audrey Tang. I'm Taiwan's digital minister in charge of social innovation, open government, and youth engagement. So we saw your comments on Twitter and your turnstiles attending the opening ceremony of Special Olympics. How do you feel now, your students, yourself, your own students? I'm feeling a lot of gratitude to the support that people on Twitter, a lot of them Japanese people, even Japanese people writing in English or Mandarin for me to more easily understand for their understanding and support. It is quite clear that we care deeply to each other. And I've seen people on Twitter saying, yeah, if Audrey comes to Japan, there will be a lot of people moving unnecessarily, which will make counter pandemic harder, I guess, more difficult. And so because my cancellation is due to the new protocol from the Olympic Committee about counter pandemic measures of the opening ceremony. So I think having some contribution to counter pandemic is the utmost importance. So to be honest, you wanted to attend the opening ceremony? Initially, the invitation was for me to attend the opening ceremony, along with other people from Taiwan. And then we were told that the attendee number for the opening ceremony need to be drastically reduced because of counter pandemic reasons. And so I thought, yeah, if that's the case, I should talk with our premier and the president about this. Many people who are suffering from the virus and most of the games will be held without audience. What do you think is the goal of this event? Well, in my opinion, what's important is that people take the time to understand the science behind pandemic prevention. Because as we can see around the world, if people internalize the science, they can come up with very good social innovations to help the pandemic effort. But if the government does not explain the science, but rather just impose some measures, then people very quickly enter into a state of fatigue. And then the counter pandemic become more difficult. So whether it's Olympic or any other event, the most important thing is whether people around the world learn more things about pandemic prevention because of this event. If that is the case, then it has a positive value. I am particularly important to learn. Yes, any opportunity to learn something about, say, the new variants, how the variants differ from the original copy of the virus, that is an important thing to learn. In Taiwan, for example, last year, we were told by the experts that the original copy of the virus requires three-quarters of people in any place to wear a mask, wash their hands, and keep the distance. However, the new variant, the alpha variant, for example, three-quarter is not enough, which is why Taiwan had a brief, a couple more of communities spread now. However, we successfully control it to double digits per day for a while now, because we now understand it requires more than 90% of people in any place wearing mask, washing hands, and keeping distance. So updating these numbers, these knowledge is very important. So originally, this was a level of reconstruction analysis from the disaster which occurred in 2011, but with the corona pandemic, people forget about that message. So how can we overcome this situation? Can you tell us your opinion as a digital investor? How can we overcome this situation by this type of technology? Well, I think the idea of reconstruction is not forgotten. In both Taiwan and Japan, we talk about resilience. The U.S. talks about building back better, whether people talk about pandemic in the present tense or in the future tense or in the past tense, recovery and thriving after the pandemic is still a reconstruction mindset. So I would say that reconstruction after earthquakes or other natural disasters is one of the most important lessons one can learn about resilience, and that can inform the building back better, the resilience after a pandemic as well. In Taiwan, we use our counter disaster methods like the SMS-based earthquake notification flood evacuation warning and so on, and repurpose that for contact tracing quarantine and so on. So our system for counter pandemic is built upon our system of reconstruction and prevention of more disasters after a natural disaster. And I believe the same applies to Japan and other countries as well. So I think the idea of reconstruction is still very much there. We just need to broaden the scope and also learn from the people who suffered from other disasters before the pandemic. Thank you for your comment. Still, we were exposed from a lot of discussions to show our reconstruction. For example, eating food or visiting the same countryside, nature, enjoying nature, etc. But we can't have that opportunity by doing certain things. How can we create our reconstruction? How can we send information from Fukushima to the world? Well, there are other than human-to-human movements, there are of course digital ways, such as this very conversation. There are also fruits and other agricultural products that are not limited by the quarantine and pandemic control measures. And there are also just revamping people's ideas about Fukushima, right? So imagery, films, video about the local reconstruction purposes can also be transported again not limited to pandemic control. And I think because the vast majority of people watching the Olympic will do so online, including me, right? So because of that, any imagery that you play as part of the Olympic program reach far more people than you would even for a traditional in-person Olympic. So I think this is a really good chance to get the imagery, to get the ideas across to the entire world. And if they want to enjoy some agricultural product or fruits or stories and so on, so much the better. If you are a member of the ministry in Japanese government, I would wish you to send information of Fukushima to the world. In Taiwan, what we are doing is setting up a social innovation portal at si.taiwan.gov.tw. At that portal, you can see the regional revitalization products and services, as well as the local cooperatives, social entrepreneurs, charities and so on. And understand this is not about them needing help. This is about them helping the world. So just flipping this idea from receiving help to what we call Taiwan can help can give you a sense of how important it is to help the world. So this interaction is not by government or nation, but it's necessary to express one by one if everyone should be involved in that movement. Yes, social innovation means everyone's business with everyone's help. So it is not just about one or two people in the government working for people, but rather about working with people. This is the second part about Fukushima. It's been 10 years since the Great East Japan Earthquake in Fukushima Daiichi, nuclear power plant accident in 2011. How do you see the current situation of Fukushima? Well, because I had the opportunity of engaging on the anniversary with the young people in Fukushima, I learned directly from the young people that they are a generation of resilience and hope. It seems that they are all very eager to tell the world that their reconstruction is quite successful. And I, after listening to them, said this is like in computer's browser. Sometimes there is a cache, meaning an old version of a website that is cached on the computer, but maybe because of lack of connection and so on. People did not take the time to update their impression about Fukushima. It's like always reading an old copy on the local computer's browser. But what we need, as I just mentioned during the Olympic and so on, is used as an opportunity to clear the browser cache, to clear away the stereotypes, to clear away what people's association to Fukushima may be. They watch the TV on International News Channel just a few months after the earthquake. And then people can now learn that Fukushima is again ready for people to travel to, for people to come, for people to enjoy, and also for the young people to build a live and thriving community. There are so many countries including Taiwan, and important for us from Fukushima. How can we progress from this situation? Last time when I visited Japan, I think in the supermarket near Tokyo, I got some persimmons from Fukushima. And it was very tasty. And I filmed myself saying Gekuma or something on Twitter. And so maybe you can check what I posted there. And then when I came back to Taiwan, the persimmon farmers from Shenzhou and other counties insisted that I must visit their city and also taste their persimmon too. So it's some friendly competition there. So more people traveling to Japan and enjoying the fruits of Fukushima, I think will help to convey the tastiness to other people. But on the other hand, if travel is very difficult as it is now, then of course it is more difficult for people to understand the current situation. So by and large, I think the deciding factor should be vaccination. If both sides are fully vaccinated, then that will enable a lot more in-person travel. And that will then enable a more informed discussion and deliberation in both democracies. It was very nice. He has been to Taiwan three years ago for the coverage. And he was shocked to see new clear foods, new clear foods with his love for Fukushima, so nice. So how can we update that kind of comfort rumor for the future? Do you have any ideas? Well, whatever people's ideas or stereotypes are, they were like 10 years ago, they were once true. So it's not entirely false. It's just at some time the facts updated so that when people believe something was true, need to be visiting again in order to see before their own eyes that what they believe was true was certainly true but only up to a certain year. And after a certain year, it may or may not be true again. But just like if you have a friend that you somehow lose contact, of course you will be remembering that friend from the time where you last had contact. It's not that you're spreading rumors, it's just it's what you remember. But that friend of course has matured and have maybe a different life than you originally remember. So visiting again I think is very important. If people visit again, if you visit your friend again, then you will learn about the new developments of that friend since you last met and then you will catch up to whatever updates that they developed in their life. But if there is no visit, if you just read on the newspaper, oh the friend you remember 10 years ago did this and that, it will not feel as true as your real memory 10 years ago. So I don't think this is just about writing like newspaper stories. Newspaper stories can tell about the facts, but the feelings I think require more in-person visit. And that is why vaccination is so important. But sharing feelings together to update that youth. Yes, exactly, exactly, yes. That's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it. So by restarting the overseeing movement, each other will be game changer from this situation. Certainly, because had I not visited Japan and actually tasted the persimmon, if I just look at a picture of the persimmon, I would not be able to say gigyuma because it would not taste like anything. So obviously from my personal experience, having this in-person travel is obviously a very important part in re-associating the term Fukushima with the new developments because otherwise I would just be reading or watching the TV, but that will not change my feelings that easily. You talked to us about you communicated with a student with Fukushima. Could you tell us a bit more about it? What did you feel and what did you learn from the students? It left a very strong impression on me, especially there was a young person that said during the time between the earthquake and the full recovery, they had to attend some other different cities, schools, and they were, I wouldn't say discriminated, but certainly a little bit bullied because people would keep a distance or use some not very positive terminology and so on. And because they know I had been bullied when I was eight years old. So they asked me what I would do if I'm in their place. And so I said the first, the most important thing is to love yourself, is to like yourself, to understand your unique perspective is a gift to the world. It's not anything that's your fault. It's not. And certainly the second important thing is to use that opportunity, such as a TV interview to make this situation public. So it's not your burden to solve it in your school. It's everyone's burden to solve it in the society. So work with professional journalists to make this more visible. And so I understand that this is not very easy for a single student to work. But if many people bent together and then we can change how people see this thing. And so this really reminded me of my own childhood. And I really relate to the strengths and resilience to the young people. We were so happy to see your video, that you were saying, We were so happy to see your video, that you were saying it's Yuma and all Tsushima people are very encouraged by your message. But as a minister of some countries, of Taiwan region, it may be someone who opposes to your opinion. Aren't you afraid of that kind of opponent on a counter comment? Why did you upload that video? As a minister of the Taiwan jurisdiction, if you want a neutral word, the Taiwan jurisdiction, I think the most important message I have is not to convince anyone. It is just to share my personal true feeling. So if the person doesn't taste good, you will see that my reaction wouldn't be good. My reaction is Yuma, certainly because it was really very tasty. So I think authenticity and personal experience matters. Because this is not about a debate. This is not about me trying to convince you. This is about my true reaction to the fruit and capturing the moment. So I don't think anyone opposes me sharing something tasty. Because I am after all not saying you should find this tasty too. I'm not trying to say that. I'm just sharing my own reaction. I see. You didn't say we should import this fruit into Taiwan? Because at the time it was still at a binding period of the national referendum. So if I say that, it will be against the referendum result. But I can say, for example, I come all the way to Tokyo, to Japan, to have this because I can't have this at home. Now that is a neutral statement. So what I'm trying to do is just to facilitate more understanding. But I'm certainly not saying I'm above the referendum. That's not possible. I just want to say that. If I try to resolve this, if I say that it will be against the referendum result, it will be against the national referendum result. So I don't want to say that. But I'm not saying I'm above the referendum result. I'm just saying I'm above the referendum result. I wanted to see the truth, but I'm not saying. I'm not saying I'm above the referendum result. I'm not saying I'm above the referendum result. I'm not saying I'm above the referendum result. It will show you that person. But it is not a season now. I understand. Yes. It is a season for peaches. Yes. I've heard that peach is really good. Hi, it's really tasty and sweet. She is asking about the treated water which is supposed to be released from Kushimadai Tumigraf Housefront two years later, from three years later. And there are many people considered dangerous mentally, not by scientifically. So how should Japanese government or media send messages? Because I'm not directly working with our Ocean Affairs Council, I myself am not very well informed on this particular matter. From what I have heard, there are already measurement stations set up by the Ocean Affairs Council in Taiwan around the seas and ocean places. And we will keep, of course, monitoring this and also work on ways to make it more legible. But this I also read from the press release beyond which I really have no idea. And I'm quite honest in that, if I'm not involved in that decision making, I will simply say that I believe our Ocean Affairs Council are working on it. So our media should be sending more scientific information to our own company and also to the world. Do you think that information is enough or is it needed more? I think a lot of it boils down to the source of information. If people trust your message, then of course your message can cater to the people who trust you. On the other hand, for people who currently have no trusting relationship with you as media, there may be some other way need to be found. In Taiwan's case, for example, when we are telling our voting like Vote for President, telling the paper-based ballot, instead of just publishing it from the Central Election Commission, we made sure that each party, even nonpartisan people like me, can go to their local counting stations and even film the counting process from multiple angles. And this ensures that people don't have to trust any single news source to make sure that the election result is widely accepted. Instead, people can trust the YouTuber that they trust to film the counting station. And each YouTuber, each major party, may be have their own counting app. But when their counting app all agree on the result, then no matter who you support, no matter who you vote for, then people will not have a kind of alternate reality debate about the outcome of the election. So allowing people to observe many different partisan sides to observe together, to share the same data together, to update the data as quickly as possible like an open API. These are the elements of mutual trust. Any single media can only do so much. Before sending a message, we need to create a mutual need to each other. Yes. For media, between media and audience, and also to other countries. Yes, we call it a data coalition. It's like a coalition of people who are not necessarily so trusting each other or in a permanent binding relationship. A coalition is essentially something that's around an emergency or a new situation and then anyone who care about this, despite their differences in positions, can agree on some shared value. For example, on the importance of people to understand the science and the facts. If people understand that, then they can still work together despite they have different ideological positions and so on. We see something very similar with climate action and also with pandemic prevention. Even people on the local municipalities, central governments, international organizations don't agree with each other on the politics. Still on the base facts and data, they have ways to share together into a fabric. The same probably need to happen to anything that transcends the boundaries of jurisdictions, that is to say true global issues and certainly water as well as climate, as well as virus, all fit this definition. That kind of issue is not in one country's issue, it's beyond the border. Yes, yes. We create trust, nations and share ideas that I can rely on from what you said. Thank you. Thank you. I would like to say that we are making a trust-based relationship and we are talking about the trust-based relationship and the story of the YouTube channel. So, I would like to make a trust-based relationship with Maria, and I would like to make a good relationship. That's what I think. In Japan, there are a lot of people who are not able to move and are unable to move. I was thinking about what to do to get rid of it. For example, when I saw Taiwan's COVID-19 plan, I saw that it was a unique point to get rid of it. I saw that it was a point where people could share information with each other. I saw that it was a unique point to get rid of it. In schizophrenia, even Japanese government tries to express their idea or their order to citizens. They don't have enough power. But in Taiwan, for example, for COVID-19 measures, there are humorous poster, humorous poster or humorous but convinced citizens in Taiwan. That is a measure to convince people. I think instead of convincing people, we often just follow the people, trusting the people with the necessary data so that people can make their own ways of convincing. For example, the mask availability, because we publish every 30 seconds the availability in each pharmacy. So people develop their own ways of mask map, chatbots, and so on. Even though many international media still say I created the mask map, I have to keep telling people I did not, really. People from and many other people did this visualization. All I did is to make sure the data flows freely, is updated every 30 seconds but all the visualization, all the memes, all the posters, all the analysis, they are created by people. Because when your friend creates an app or visualization, you're much more likely to use it. But if a random person in the government created it, then we have to do a lot of convincing for people to download or install it. But in Taiwan, because for mask availability, there's more than 100 different channels. So each of these channels have their own friends and families. So they will do the convincing themselves. It's not the government doing the convincing. So friendly feeling is one of a kind. Yes. It's just like if your friend went to the counting station after an election and filmed the counting. Of course, you were going to trust your friend. But if it is just a random person you didn't know, appointed by the government, did exactly the same thing. Maybe you don't trust them either. I don't trust them either. I trust them. And when I created the mask, everyone said that I was looking for the information. But what I did to confirm that is that I was the one who created it. And there are many other channels like that. And if you think that the people who created it are the people who created it, even if it's not the people who created it. So it's like a person who is not really aware of the existence of the mask. It's very effective. So it's like a process. Now, the situation in Japan is a little different from the situation in U.S. To be honest, I don't think the solution is as it is. So it has complicated feelings because there are not enough relations and trust between Kusima and Japanese government. So you have to find a way to to imagine Japan, and to imagine Japan. And it's in Japan. So it's in Japan. So in Japan. So it's in Japan. So So what he said is about in terms of drinking water, firstly, the government decided the way and then convinced people, but it should be over this. He informed people, he's mentioned, and after they understand, it's a way. What he said is the government is opposite way. I don't think it's specific to any particular government. This has everything to do with the communication technology. For example, if all you have is pen and paper, it's very easy to issue the paper like newspaper or government decree to all the neighborhood. But if they have something to say, if they write on that paper, there's no way for people who authored this to know. Because the printing press is a broadcasting tool. It's not really a listening tool. And the same goes for television and radio. It's very easy for one or two persons to decide something and speak it to the world over television or radio. But again, to ask people questions over radio is very difficult because you can only pick up one phone call at a time from the radio. So I really don't think it's specific to any particular government. It's just previously listening at scale is much harder than speaking at scale. And while we are now working in Taiwan as part of open government work, it's just to make listening as simple and as effective as broadcasting. But this is an open research domain and everyone around the world is still researching how best to do this. What is the open government? Yes, open government means to make the data about decisions, not personal data, the public data transparent and then based on the transparency provide a way for people to participate in how to interpret the data for future decision making. How they feel about this data, so participation. And whilst people provide some really good suggestions, recommendations, we need to be accountable to explain which are feasible, which are not yet feasible to be accountable to people by providing an account of how the participation affects policy. And finally, these accountability need to include more and more people every time something is consulted. So people who don't have the right to vote younger than 18 for example must also have a way to express their ideas and influence the agenda as well as foreign immigrants, non-citizen residents, people previously excluded. So that's inclusion. So transparency, participation, accountability and inclusion together forms open government. That sounds amazing. Why does Japan have that kind of system? I regret. That's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. So we are planning to release this information through the TV in Tsushima and also if you really nationwide in Japan, is that okay? Yes, I have also my own YouTube channel and usually we embargo until you publish. So as soon as you publish, I would really appreciate if you can also authorize me to publish under creative commons on my own YouTube channel. And I have some side recordings, higher quality of segments of me answering your questions and also happy to provide that to you under creative commons attribution so that you can reuse it in your content. And once you publish, then we will also publish this material to YouTube as well. Thank you very much. The more people hear these stories, the better. That's my idea. Thank you very much. Thank you. So after we release this, we are also recording this video. So I would like to share this information with you on my YouTube channel. I'm not sure. Ah, you're not sure, right? So this is all for that interview. Thank you very much again for letting me know your wonderful ideas and thank you for encouraging me. We've got energy. These days, there are many negative news, but you gave us a lot of energy and overcome the COVID pandemic. And then I want you to... There are many beautiful nations and beautiful nature and delicious food, food, sake. If you like sake, I will show you the opportunity. Let's say bye-bye by your... Yes, live long and prosper. Thank you. And thank you for the excellent questions. It's really pretty good journalism work that you're doing. I think it will be very important to the world. Thank you.