 In this episode of Mind Pump, we talk all about your favorite macronutrient protein. Now protein is an essential macronutrient. This means you need to consume this. You have to have protein in your diet in order to thrive and survive. But we go deep. We talk about why protein is important besides the survival aspect. Like why is it important for muscle building fat loss? We talk about high protein diets versus low protein diets. We talk about the satiety effects of protein. That means the fact that it can lower your appetite. We talk about the effects of protein on your thermic effect. You actually burn more calories, burning protein or eating protein than you will with other macronutrients. And then we get into the best sources of protein. We get questions all the time, what's the best source of protein or what's the best protein powder? So we talk all about whole food sources of protein, our favorite sources of protein from food. Then we talk about our favorite types of protein powders. First we get into whey protein. Whey protein is one of the most popular forms of protein out there. We talk about egg protein. Then we talk about plant-based protein. So we go into the powders, their benefits, their detriments, who they're best for, who they're not best for. Now we do make some recommendations because I know a lot of you are gonna message me afterwards and say, hey, I heard the podcast on protein. What's a great whey protein to buy? If you want whey protein, here's our recommendation. Legion makes it a phenomenal whey protein isolate that's naturally flavored and we have a discount for you. Go to buylegion.com, that's B-U-Y-L-E-G-I-O-N dot com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump at checkout for 20% off. And then plant-based. If you like plant-based protein either because you have an intolerance to other types of protein, it's easier to digest for you, or maybe you're a vegan, our favorite source of vegan protein is Organifi. Hands down, we have a discount with them as well. Go to organifi.com forward slash mind pump and use the code mind pump for 20% off. Now before the episode starts, we're in February, which means we have a brand new promotion. This is a very popular program and it's half off. The program I'm talking about is Maps Split. This is a bodybuilder focused muscle sculpting focused program as an advanced split routine where you're training upper body, lower body with volume in different phases. There's exercise demos and blueprints in the program. Basically everything you need to follow a muscle building split routine. We wrote this program, so I know it's good. It's half off. Here's how you get that discount. Go to mapssplit.com, that's M-A-P-S-S-P-L-I-T.com and use the code split 50, that's S-P-L-I-T-5-0, no space for the discount. I wanna touch on a topic that we've talked about many, many times, but we've never really gone into certain details into, because I still get questions quite a bit on what are the best protein sources. We've talked a lot about protein, why it's important, I think we should cover that too, but then I'd love to go into like best sources of protein and why they're the best sources of protein. Because it's that macro nutrient that, especially in our space, first off, it's the number one selling supplement that there is. It's in all sports regarded as one of the more important, especially in the strength sports. Strength sports for sure, protein is just regarded as the most important. Very often you see athletes supplementing with protein, not as often do you see athletes supplementing with other macro nutrients. Well, I think this is a hot topic because there's lots of vested interest in getting you to think a certain way so they can sell you a specific product. And I think that it's created a lot of different camps in terms of where the best sources lie, what you should really focus on getting, how quickly you need it, based off your workouts, all kinds of folklore. I mean, I love this conversation. It's been overdue for us, and this will help me. I know I get a ton of DMs regarding this. Should I do a vegan protein? Should I do whey? Should I do concentrate? Should I do collagen? Everybody wants to know the benefits and which one's better. And of course, if you're asking somebody who sells one of those products, they're always gonna make the case for their protein powder or whatever they're doing better. So I think for us to break down all of them and share the pros, cons of it, I think would be of great value. Totally, and we'll get into this, but as with almost everything, whether it's food, whether it's micro nutrients like vitamins and minerals or exercises, the individual determines what's best for them. And so what I wanna do is I wanna be very balanced with our recommendations because there are some protein sources that will be superior for some people and inferior for other people. And that's why I wanna make kind of like this episode guide where people can go in and kind of determine, okay, based off of who I am, what I'm looking for, this is the best source of protein for me. Well, I think at first we should start with why do you even need protein? Yeah, it's an essential macro nutrient, meaning if you don't eat protein, your body will fail to thrive. When you break protein down, it's broken down into amino acids. Those are the constituents that make up protein. Some amino acids are non-essential. What does that mean? That means that some amino acids, your body can synthesize, so you don't necessarily need to consume non-essential proteins because your body will just make them. But some amino acids, your body won't make. Those essential amino acids are what make protein an essential macro nutrient. You simply, without eating them, and your body needs them, without eating them, you're screwed, and if you do this long enough, you'll actually die. You can cause lots of problems. Now that's the extreme, right? Talking about somebody dying, but what are some signs of somebody who potentially is an under-consuming protein? Oh, you know, okay, so why do people even supplement with protein in the first place? Athletes have noticed for a long time. Actually, we can go all the way back to gladiators and soldiers thousands of years ago that identified that consuming more meat, they didn't know it was protein, carbohydrates, and fats, but they noticed that when I eat more meat, I'm stronger, I build more muscle. Then you go fast forward to the early days of strongman competitors. And these are the guys that are, you look at like the circus strongman, kind of tubby looking, really strong, did these crazy feats of strength, and they would consume gallons of milk and eat lots of red meat and eggs. Again, they didn't know about macro nutrients necessarily, but they did notice, hey, when I consume these foods, I get really strong. Then you get, move a little further forward, and bodybuilders really started to kind of piece this together, and the first supplements that really made waves in the fitness space were protein supplements. I believe some of the first ones were made by, I believe it was a company called Blair, and they would make this dairy-based protein that you would mix with milk, and it would kind of turn into like a yogurt of some sort, custard, and you did it. In the first Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, ate tons of these, and bodybuilders said, they just saw this, like, okay, if I eat a lot of protein, I build muscle. So this was observed for a long time. Now we have studies that show that there's evidence, why, why these people saw great benefits. I think I believe it was Blair who originally put this together that it was, because before that, it was ovaltine. Oh, right. And they were, ovaltine was used for the medical community, for people that were lacking that, and needed that for- It was protein, it was minerals, vitamins, that kind of stuff. Right, so ovaltine was the first kind of example of like a protein powder. It was just, it was marketed to just a demographic of people that absolutely needed it, or- And it was low on protein. It was malt based, and you'd mix it with milk, but one of the benefits was, oh, I'm getting some extra protein, vitamins and minerals. But yeah, we've identified for a long time that, and you could go back, you could read old texts, you could read some of the things that the Greeks wrote about, and the Romans. You could go, even in Chinese medicine, that protein, or high protein containing foods have been connected to strength, performance, and vitality. Now, what does the science say? The science 100% supports this. This is unequivocal. If you, and this is broad, okay? Of course, when you go down to the individual, there's gonna be some variances here. But generally speaking, a high protein diet is superior for muscle building. It's also superior for fat burning. It's also superior, in some cases, for health. They're finding in older populations that they seem to be healthier when they start to increase their protein intake because it has a muscle preserving effect. As far as fat loss is concerned, why would protein be good for fat loss? So there's two reasons. One, it prevents in comparison to other same calorie diets, higher protein diets, preserve muscle. So if you go on a diet and you lose 10 pounds, and there's a lot of ways you can preserve muscle, right? Lifting weights helps do this a lot. But all things being equal, when you have a low calorie diet that's low in protein and you lose 10 pounds, I'm gonna use an arbitrary number. You may lose four pounds or three pounds of muscle. Part of the reason is your body's trying to slow its metabolism down to, in order to match the lower calories, trying to become more efficient. When the protein is high, you lose less muscle. That means your metabolism tends to stay higher and that means that it's easier to lose body fat. It's also satiating. Well, this is a really good point too, because this was a common thing I remember as a trainer before this all got pieced together for me, that you would, you'd get a client that you would put on a calorie restrictive diet. You'd put them on the treadmill. You'd exercise them and we'd lose 10 pounds. Oh, we're excited. Oh, they lose another 10 pounds. Oh, we're excited again. And then we do their body fat test and their body fat sometimes would go up. And you, as a trainer, you're like, be scratching your head. And remember earlier, what the hell? Like, you know, they're eating clean because they're eating good choices. They're eating low calories. You're lifting weights. You're doing cardio. How could this person's body fat percentage go up? And a lot of people don't understand how body fat percentage works and how could that be possible? How could somebody lose 20 pounds on the scale and they're eating good food, but yet they got fatter? Well, they got fatter percentage wise. And that's because what ended up happening is they lost 20 pounds, but actually 11 of that was muscle and only nine of it was fat. And that's actually happens a lot. It happens a lot. And so in other words, the ratio of fat to muscle on that person or fat to lean tissue has changed. So you lost weight, but your percentage of body fat is higher. The same reason why, you know, 10 pounds of body fat on a 100-pound person would be 10% body fat and a 200-pound person would be 5% body fat. I've seen that many times. Studies show this effect, especially when people diet without resistance training. That's where they see the biggest one. Oh, of course. If you do cardio, restricted calories and low protein, you can almost guarantee that's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. Your body, what your body's always trying to do is it's always trying to become more efficient and inefficient. Remember our, the human body, we live in modern times, but the body that we live in now is the product of thousands of years of evolution where food was scarce. So imagine if you're designing a car in a gasoline scarce environment, very, very scarce environment, you are going to design a car that has extremely high, like a really, really good gas mileage. You're gonna be able to travel very, very far per gallon of gas. Well, the human body's really good at that. So when you're reducing calories and there isn't a strong signal to keep muscle, nor are there building blocks to keep muscle, your body will lose weight, but it'll reduce muscle mass to make up the difference. You need to make sure that you're fostering this environment that muscle building is necessary. That signal is there. And so you're stressing the body with the right amount of dose. So that way too, it's not, you're cutting calories, but also you're not matching that with that demand that your body needs to send that signal of building muscle. Well, this is a good time too, to explain why this happens, right? I mean, we've heard the myth or what we used to probably even say as trainers, oh, you burn muscle, like the body doesn't burn muscle. Oh, it just pairs it down? It pairs it down, and then you ask, well, why does it do that? Why doesn't it pair? Well, because it's cheaper to get rid of the muscle than it is to get rid of the body fat. Your body muscles an expensive tissue, meaning it takes a lot of calories to support it. So if you're in a caloric restrictive diet and you're pushing the body cardiovascular wise and you're not sending a good signal to build muscle, then your body says, we don't need this, all this muscle. It's very expensive for us to keep it. Again, to Sal's point, it's trying to become efficient so it pairs down muscle, it gets rid of it. And so that's where this idea of burning muscle came from of, oh, you don't wanna burn muscle. Well, that theory is if you are not giving the body enough protein to sustain the muscle mass you have on it, and then in addition to that, you're in a caloric restricted diet and you're pushing, doing cardio. And you're not lifting weights. Yeah, and even if you are lifting weights, you still could be at risk a little bit. Pushing on cardio, calorie restricted, even doing that. Now, doing weights is gonna help that situation, but we see this even like I see this in the competitive world all the time, where you have- And they're on anabolic steroids on top of it. Right, right, you have these body builders that they go on, they bulk up like crazy, they put on 30, 40 pounds, and of that 30, 40 pounds, maybe they added 10 pounds of muscle, then they go on a hard cut for their show, and then when they end up at the end of the show, they end up losing all those 10 pounds of muscle. And they're eating a lot of protein, they're a body builder, most of them are, but it's because you are pushing the body so hard, cardio vascular wise, you're in a caloric restricted diet, and the body is, it's learning that, oh my God, this is expensive tissue, sure it shreds some body fat too, but then it also goes, hey, you're gonna keep pushing these double day cardio days and not feed me, I don't wanna keep this muscle, even though you're pushing the weights, that's why they end up panning it down. And you may be wondering, well, cardio uses muscle, like why wouldn't I keep muscle from doing lots of cardio? Because cardio vascular activity does not require lots of strength, all it requires is efficiency of energy use, okay? So again, to use the car analogy, if I wanna go quarter mile in nine seconds, I need a lot of horsepower and it's gonna burn a lot of gas. If I wanna drive 100 miles on one gallon of gas, I'm gonna do a very slow, very easy, and become very efficient, and what does cardio look like? Slow, energy efficient, I'm just getting my body energy efficient. And protein is part of that signaling process. If protein is high, by itself, by the way, this is an important thing to understand, protein by itself sends a muscle building signal. You can actually show this in studies where you have sedentary individuals, and you have one eat a high protein diet, and the other one eat a low protein diet, both having same calories, and the higher protein diet will result in a little bit more muscle. So that also sends that muscle building signal. And there's two things you wanna focus on in the modern world, or two things you wanna use to your advantage that can actually, or actually are derived from the disadvantage of the modern world. One is you wanna faster metabolism because we're so sedentary. Because we, so we don't move much, we have food everywhere. We want a faster metabolism. Muscle provides a faster metabolism. The second thing is you have all this very, very tasty food around you, you're probably gonna wanna eat a lot of it. So why not eat the foods that tend to be the most, that produce the most satiety, things that tend to control your appetite the most? They actually have done lots of studies on this, and on a gram per gram basis, in other words comparing one gram of protein to one gram of fat to one gram of carbs, protein by far produces the most satiety. It just blunts your appetite the most, and you can test this out yourself in fact. And metabolically speaking, it's the most beneficial. Right, right. If you, if we're talking about gram for gram or calorie for calorie, protein is going to provide the most towards building muscle or keeping muscle, which then in turn helps the metabolism. So metabolically speaking, it's also best. So not only to help you not eat other foods and over consume calories, but also in the pursuit of speeding your metabolism up, it's better gram for gram. And then there's also the thermic effect. Now this is a small effect, but it does add up over time. So the thermic effect refers to the amount of energy your body burns in order to process the food that you eat. The whole digestive process. Yeah, so like you eat something and it's 50 calories, and I'm gonna use arbitrary numbers. Maybe it costs your body five calories to utilize that 50 calories. So the net caloric calories you got from that food was 45 calories, right? Protein's thermic effect is about 10 to 15% higher than fats or carbohydrates. It has a high thermic effect as well. So it's also a nutrient that burns more calories simply by eating it than other macronutrients. Now I'm assuming this is really based on whole foods versus like powdered proteins. Whole foods have a higher thermic effect because there's a harder, longer digestive process. But when we're comparing apples to apples, like let's say you do a gram of a pre-digested protein powder to a gram of a carbohydrate powder. Or liquid. Or fat, like an oil or whatever. Or calorie to calorie, not a gram to gram, because that gram of fat is higher in calorie. The thermic effect is still higher in protein. It's protein when it comes to body composition goals, when it comes to building muscle, burning body fat, reducing my appetite. When it comes to what's gonna benefit me the most in a modern world, hands down a high protein diet is superior across the board. And this is not just my opinion. This is backed by all the studies that have been done on these things. Now that being said, there's always individual variances. So I know I'm saying high protein, low protein. What, you know, what does that all mean? What is high protein? What is low protein? Yeah, I think it's important because you say high protein to one community, the bodybuilders, right? And they take that as, they'll throttle all the way down. Right, right. Two, three X their body weight of protein. Now they're doing two, three, 400 grams of protein a day. You say that to somebody who eats relatively no protein or very low protein and high protein to them could be double which could still be under what they need to be eating. So I've always liked the one to one ratio because all the literature out there pretty much shows that even if you're not super lean, if you're relatively lean, we're not obese. We're nothing about somebody who's obese, somebody who is even overweight. If you stick around that one gram to pound of body weight, you're gonna cover yourself for the max benefits. Right. Now you arguably could be eating a little more than you need for some people, especially if you're not really lean or relatively lean, but it's an easy thing for people to track and pay attention to. Hey, I weigh 220 pounds. I'm targeting about 220. If I fall a little short, I knew I was going a little bit, I'm adding a little extra than what I actually need. I'm not any of the dangerous areas of overconsumption of protein. The amount that you would have to consume for it to be dangerous would be really high. So that's a good place and it's easy for people. We know that all the research supports 0.6 to 0.8, but you tell a client or you tell the average listener, hey, get 0.6 to 0.8 of lean body mass. That's your optimal protein intake. That just goes right over somebody's head. And most people don't know how to compute what their lean body mass is. Other people don't wanna fucking calculate what 0.6, 0.8 is. One is a pretty good easier. Yeah, I agree with you. You're right though, the literature does show about 0.6 to 0.8 grams per pound of body weight is what the literature shows, meaning all the studies that have been done on this show that as long as protein is in that range, you're gonna yield the max benefits out of a high protein diet, like the ones we just talked about, right? Muscle, satiety, fat loss, strength and performance, all those different things. But I do like aiming for one gram per pound of body weight because it's a target, it's not a must. And it's nice to have a target of one because typically, here's my experience, I'm sure you guys have a similar one. When I tell clients aim for one gram per pound of body weight, they usually fall around 0.6 to 0.8. Because a gram of protein is a decent amount of protein. It's challenging. And the neurotic ones that hit it or go a little over, you know as a coach, you're not risking anything. We're not doing anything absurd or well beyond what they should be at. That's why I like it. And I know there's so much stuff on social media on what is right and these debates and oh, it's this, oh, it's that. And oh, this research shows that one and a half grams, they showed some, it's listen, if the average person is listening and you're hitting one to one on your body weight, you are, you're- Covering your base or your spot? Yeah, you are in a very good spot. The difference of that to 1.5 or lower at 0.8.6 is splitting serious hairs. So- Yeah, and again, it's, and here's the thing, there is an individual variance with this. So we're talking about what the studies show kind of across the board, but the individual variance is within the range that we just gave you, you know, 0.6 to one. Below the 0.6, most of you listening will probably experience fewer results, less gains, you might not build as much muscle and as much strength. In the long run, this does definitely, you know, it does add up. Now, here's some things to pay attention to. Digestion, if you're, there are some people that when they start pushing protein up to a gram per pound of body weight, they just don't feel like, they don't feel good. It doesn't affect their digestion well. They may start to notice constipation. That's the most common thing. Those are the people that I would say, okay, let's reduce your protein intake and replace it with some good fibrous carbs to help you with your digestion. The other one is, you know, flatulence. That can sometimes happen where people feel like, especially if you're consuming a lot of sulfur-based proteins. I was just gonna say, I want to comment on what you're saying right now because I want to comment on how rare that is. That, you know, because there are some, oh yeah, that's me. I started eating some protein and I start farting like a, also evaluating where you're getting your protein. 100%. Because you can have, you can have an intolerance to certain things, you know, like eggs, like dairy. And because all of a sudden, you're having all this whey protein or you're all of a sudden, you're bumping all your eggs up crazy. You're getting, it's not the protein itself. It's the source of the protein. You put that same person on a bunch of fish or chicken or turkey and they eat the same amount of grams. They feel absolutely fine. It's just that the way they decided to bump their protein is in an area that that's what could be causing the problem. So I want to make that clear because I've had that with clients before. And they thought it was the protein. Right, and they think it's the protein. It's the source. It's the source. It's like, oh, well that's because your last trainer that helped you put you on two shakes a day and it's whey and you have an intolerance to dairy and now you're gassy and farting and you think it's cause you can't handle high protein. No, it's not that at all. It's actually because of the source that you're getting. 100%. The other thing is that that is an individual variance is that you may just not like the taste of protein. You may not like protein containing foods. Now that's a perfectly reasonable individual variance because here's the thing at the end of the day, the diet, the type of diet that you eat that's gonna be the most successful is the one that you can follow for the longest period of time, the one that fits into your normal lifestyle. So although a high protein diet may be superior from muscle building and fat loss and satiety, but you just hate or you don't like most protein containing foods, it's not gonna work for you. I'm not gonna force you to eat food you can't stand. And this isn't common. It's not very common. Most people have no problem eating high protein containing foods, but I've had clients like this where they say, I don't like all these foods that contain protein. I'm gagging on it. And so I take a step back and I go, okay, we're not gonna eat a lot of it and that's totally fine. So although we're making the case, the strong case that a high protein diet is superior for performance, muscle building, fat loss, satiety. Always the exception of that. Always listen to your body. Your body is going to coach you better than mind pump. Always remember that it's number one. So I think the place to start then, because before we get into different types of like protein powders and things like that, because I know we're gonna cover that, I think something that we've said since day one will always remain consistent with this and make a case for this. When chasing protein number, your intake, right, which you're targeting every day, the number one place to get that, the best source of protein for everybody is gonna be Whole Foods. 100%, 100%. First off, Whole Foods are unprocessed. They're natural. They're more, you're more likely to be able to continue on eating them in your normal life. Doesn't require to buy a supplement. And here's the thing about Whole Foods that I love. They naturally contain other beneficial nutrients, not just other macronutrients like fats and carbohydrates, oftentimes really high protein sources can also contain some beneficial, healthy fats, which some studies will actually show help with the utilization of protein. In fact, there was a study a while ago that showed that whole egg consumption versus egg white consumption, whole egg consumption resulted in higher rates of protein synthesis. This is how they measure how your body's building muscle and utilizing that protein. And then there's other nutrients that are in whole sources. For example, I could have 50 grams of protein from a powder or I could have 50 grams of protein from lean red meat. And guess what else comes along with that? Creatine. Creatine is found in high amounts in red meat and creatine is an amazing nutrient that benefits not just muscle strength and power and size, but brain health and heart health and anti-inflammatory effects. I mean, creatine is one of the most popular supplements for a reason. You'll find it naturally in animal sources of protein. Oh, animal sources, superior. Now, here's the thing, I know people listening, there's gonna be some vegans right now that are gonna be like, that's not what, no, here's the deal. If protein intake isn't super high, if you're consuming on the lower end of the ideal range, like you're having half a gram per pound of body weight, then the animal sources are superior. On a gram per gram basis, animal sources of protein have better amino acid profile. So if you remember at the beginning of the episode, we talked about amino acids and how they make up proteins. There are certain, when you look at protein sources, if they're high in certain amino acids, they tend to be better for certain things. The branched chain amino acids being one of them. The branched chain amino acids, there's three of them. There's leucine, isoleucine and valine. And what studies will show is on a gram per gram basis, especially when protein intake is not at the super high range. If it's really high, protein sources aren't as important. You just have a lot of amino acids. But if you have more of a normal protein intake, not super high, then the protein sources that are high in branched chain amino acids are gonna build more muscle. They're gonna be better for your health. They tend to burn more body fat. They're better for recovery. And animal sources of protein are the highest in branched chain amino acids. Well, they're also the only ones that provide creatine like you referenced. Yes, you're not gonna get creatine from plant sources. Yeah, in fact, if you don't have animal sources of creatine, your body has to synthesize all of its creatine from, I believe, arginine and methionine, I think I'm pronouncing it right, which are two amino acids. You're just not gonna get as much creatine through those sources. But yeah, back to the amino acids. Branched amino acids, you have egg and dairy, very high in branched amino acids. The only plant source that is even remotely comparable would be pea protein. And even pea protein, as high as it is in branched amino acids, just doesn't come close on a gram per gram basis. The other thing with plant sources is, typically you have to get a lot of plant sources of protein to get those high amounts of protein. And one of the drawbacks of that is, now I'm eating a lot of tons of calories. If I wanna eat 100 grams of protein from tofu and edamame and hemp seeds, I'm also eating a lot of them, just a lot of volume and a lot of calories from those things, which can make it hard to have a diet that works with maybe your body composition type goals. What is, have they found the highest source of protein from plants, like which one produces the most naturally? Well, on a gram per gram base, like spirulina or these kind of least algae that you can consume, but nobody really eats those. If you're gonna consume spirulina, that's usually in a supplement. I don't see anybody having a bowl of algae. And that's relatively new. And they combine that with a lot of other vegetable sources. Well, that's the thing. When you're a vegan, what you wanna do is, first off, can you eat a very high protein diet vegan? Yes, it's harder though, but yes you can. Can you get that same branch amino acid profile and all that stuff with vegan? You can, but you need to mix protein sources. Whereas when you consume an animal source. It's all there. Yeah, from one source, you're gonna get a really high quality protein. With plant, you tend to, not always, but you tend to, cause soy is not bad, but you tend to have to combine them and put them together. There are other amino acids I wanted to cover that I forgot to mention that are popular, right? Lucine. Well, we talked about lucine, which is a branch amino acid. Lucine, when it's high, they call that the anabolic amino acid because lucine is a signaler for muscle growth. This is why, one of the reasons why animal sources of protein tend to be superior to plant sources for building muscle, especially when protein intake isn't super high. Glutamine, this is another amino acid. Back in the day, people used to supplement with like crazy bodybuilders used to, it's funny today, the people who supplement with glutamine are people interested in gut health, which is funny to me. Back in the day, that was a total bodybuilder supplement. Glutamine is utilized quite a bit by the gut. Glutamine is not an essential amino acid though. So it's not essential that you consume a ton of foods that are high in glutamine. It's not essential. Arginine, that's an amino acid that we've heard a lot about getting the pump. You know, should you seek out foods that are high in arginine? Doesn't really make that big of a difference. Glycine, proline, you may not have heard a lot about those two, but if you take any supplements for hair, skin, or nails, ladies, if you're listening and you have a supplement for those things, even if it's a cream, read the back. It's not uncommon that it'll contain both glycine and proline. Will you see that in your most collagen proteins? Collagen, so we hear a lot about collagen protein being the new hot protein right now. Yeah, and ironically. Because it's funny. They just throw it away. Oh, it's so funny about collagen. Collagen was considered for a long time an inferior protein. Garbage, it was the garbage. Yeah, like when you would buy, you know, back when I was a kid and I'd go work out at the gym and they'd have like the blue thunder and the Amino 5000 drinks in the back, they would be filled with collagen protein because it was, I mean, it's like, okay, you know what's high in collagen protein? Hot dogs, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, you know, they talk about like, oh, hot dogs are made with pigs, buttholes and lips or whatever. It's all the connective tissue, all the cuts of meat that are not desirable. All the ligaments and internal organs or anything else. Right, now, and yes, proline, glycine, very important amino acids for skin, hair and nails. And will you benefit from supplementing with collagen protein? Will your skin, hair and nails benefit from taking collagen protein? Yes, if your protein intake's really low. Yeah, and you have a deficiency in these areas. Well, that's what I'm saying. If you have really low protein, you'll supplement, you'll notice a difference. If your protein intake is high, collagen protein, no need to supplement with it, total waste of time. No need to supplement with those two amino acids, complete waste of time. Now, here's the deal. Whole foods superior across the board, but there are some drawbacks to whole food protein. I think the biggest one is just the inconvenience. Yeah, that's what I think. It's always if I have a client that is using a powder, a protein powder, including myself, it's just simply, I couldn't get to it yet. Today, I didn't have a chance to make myself another chicken breast or another piece of steak or ground up some meat. I didn't have a chance to get to that. I still need 40 grams more protein for the day to hit my daily intake. Okay, here's where this, and this is I think really important. I'm talking to somebody right now who I'm helping out and she uses a protein shake on basically a daily basis and I ask why, why do you do that? And most people when they respond to that, it's, well, aren't they healthy or aren't they good for me? And a lot of people when they first get back into exercising or working out or lifting weights, they tie building muscle to protein, protein shakes must be for that and so they just automatically add a shake into their diet every day or a bar or whatever. And what I always try to explain to my clients is that, no, we don't want to do that. Like, it's there for convenience. It's a great tool that I think everybody should have. I think everyone should have a tub in their cupboard. I think it's that valuable of a supplement that you can use. But the goal is always try and target that through Whole Foods and when you can't hit it in Whole Foods, the next best option, it would be something like that. Yeah, it's like a boxer who could take a punch. Like that's cool that you could take a punch and not get knocked out. Yeah, don't go out there just seeking it. Yeah, number one though is to move, like not get hit. So number one is eat whole natural foods, but in the likely occurrence that you miss your targets or, because here's what I used to find, the clients that would benefit the most from protein shakes were the ones that just had a tough time eating all that protein. Yeah, cause it was hard to digest for them sometimes. Like it was very satiating. So it was like you're eating all this meat, but then again, you're still not hitting your target. So this is a lot easier to assimilate. Oh yeah, you take a 130 pound female client and you tell them, okay, I want you to aim for 120 grams of protein. I mean, how many chicken breasts is that Adam? How many, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you're at 35 grams per one, right? And how many ounces is that? So that's six ounces. That's a six, first of all, six ounce chicken breast is a good size. It's a good size. And it's how many of those? 35 grams, so you said how much you want? 120, yeah. Yeah, so four of those a day. Yeah, so you're gonna eat four decent size chicken breasts a day. And if you're... Yeah, that would be considered a meal for somebody, right? A six ounce chicken breast with some rice and some broccoli would be a full meal for a 130 pound girl. She's gotta do that four times a day. So when you're, if you're listening and you're not a bodybuilder or a strength athlete and you're a female, you're probably thinking, ho, ho, how could I possibly eat all that? And I would get that oftentimes with clients. Now my goal was to try and work protein into their whole foods and work through that process. But sometimes, oftentimes, it just didn't, it just wasn't working for them. And in those cases, I would throw in a protein shake. They'd have a 30 grams. So instead of having four chicken breasts, they'd do three and a shake. And then that would help them out. But the number one goal, though, always, always, always was get it from Whole Foods. Well, now that we're moving to protein shakes, there's so many different types. So many. And so let's talk about the best ones and why they are and then the potential maybe drawbacks of those. Yes. So protein powders, all protein powders can be broken down into three categories. You have your concentrates, which tend to be anywhere between 60 to 80% protein. Meaning if you buy yourself a concentrate of whatever protein, what you're gonna find in that shake is 60 to 80% of the calories coming from protein. And 20 to 40% coming from carbohydrates or fats. These are most commonly when we see protein shakes that are quote unquote meal replacement. Yeah, they have everything. Yeah, exactly. They have carbs and they have fat in it. That's what you'll see. A meal replacement type of shake will be your concentrates. And they tend to be less expensive. And there's nothing wrong with them. And mainly, K, you have to make it why it's less expensive. I just had this argument, too, with somebody that's less processed, less work. And less protein. Protein's expensive to isolate. Yeah, you're getting less protein per gram of whatever powder is in there. And that's normally what you're paying for. So a lot of times people freak out with it, oh my God, this protein is $70. This one's, I'm gonna get this one that's $25 more. Look at the serving size. Yeah, flip it around, read how many servings, figure out how many grams of protein. And what you'll see is most of them are pretty relatively close in price. Even the most expensive protein powders out there, if they're the most expensive, it's gonna be some of the most protein you can't gram for gram, get in there. So pay attention to that. Right, concentrates tend to be less expensive. When you buy the big jugs of the inexpensive protein, it's typically off of a concentrate. And again, there's nothing wrong with a concentrate. But if you're looking to, because here's the thing, again, I would run into this with clients, I would say, okay, we need to bump your protein by 40 or 50 grams. And then they'd say, oh gosh, if I eat this piece of steak, it's also coming with us fat. And I'm adding all these extra calories, which now I have to cut from other things. You know, sometimes adding a shake, you just want the protein. You don't wanna add all that other stuff because you'd rather get it from your foods, your carbohydrates and your fat-containing foods, which I totally understand. And I think that's a good thing. So the second type of protein that kinda takes care of that problem, the protein powders, I should say, are the isolates. And isolates are when they just, they purify it, if you will. They take out most of the fats in the carbohydrates. And so you're looking with a 90 to 95% protein. And isolates are typically what I recommend. Ways. Yeah, well, whey can come and concentrate or it can come and isolate. And so if you're gonna do a protein- But a whey isolate will be more expensive than a whey concentrate. It's got more protein per serving. Right, and that's why. And less carbs and all that other stuff, absolutely. And the third one, which, you know, the bodybuilding world and the strength sport world and the supplement world makes a big deal about, is protein hydrolysates. I don't see tons of value in this, except for maybe the extreme individual who's training several times a day. Is this what casing falls under? No, casing can be, so all protein sources can be concentrated or isolated. So you can get concentrated, casing, you can isolate casing. And I wasn't the pitch for casing that it was a slower digestive. Yeah, don't worry about that. That, you know, the faster, slower digesting, protein powders are fast digesting. Regardless. Yeah, and the difference between them is it's not gonna make a difference. Right, if you wanna slow down your protein digestion through the night, have a big juicy steak for you. There you go, that's my move. Exactly. So what hydrolysates are is when companies will take powders, they'll isolate them, so whey isolate, casing isolate, egg isolate, soy isolate, whatever. Then they'll break it down with some heat, acids and enzymes, which breaks the bonds between amino acids and just speeds up the absorption of the protein. So you absorb it much faster. Now, what's the benefit of that? First off, the benefit is small, it's tiny. And really the only people I could see benefiting from that are people who are working out two or three times a day. So it's like, I work out in the morning, I got three hours before my next workout, I need to absorb. Or even shorter. Like you have some people that will do something. Who was I just painted to, or watching one of our friends that, you know, went for like a five mile run to the gym and then wanted a strength train. Sure. Before he went into strength training, he had like a shake like this to kind of replenish that, let that kind of digest thing he got into his workout. So it makes sense when you're utilizing it like that. If you're a normal gym goer, you have your one hour workout in the middle of the day and you're eating the same amount of grams of protein, the difference is splitting hairs. It's not gonna make a difference because what you're looking for is replenishing glycogen and starting the recovery process. And here's the deal. It's equivalent between individuals, whether or not they have a faster, slower digesting protein powder. But when it makes a difference is when I'm gonna work out again in an hour. So now I need to speed things up. And that's what hydrolysates do. Here's the other thing that hydrolysates do. They actually spike your insulin a little bit because they're absorbed so quickly, they may spike insulin a little bit. Now, does this make a big difference? Not really, but if you're somebody who's monitoring insulin levels, if you have that kind of issue, then you may wanna stay away from hydrolysates. In fact, I would say stay away from protein powders on their own anyway. I'd say eat it with a fat source or something like that. If I'm considering to like getting an organic powder versus not, does that really like make that much of a difference at this point? Yes, organic can make a big difference depending on what your goals are. If you want to avoid potential hormones in your food, if you wanna avoid pesticides, herbicides in your food. But that's not the only thing. Yeah, that's not the only thing exactly that you wanna look at. You wanna look at the quality of, first of all, the sweeteners. You wanna look at the quality of the protein itself because just because it's organic doesn't mean it's necessarily better because sometimes, like you said, you can find impurities in that protein. And then knock on that statement that would counter what Sal's saying too. All the research would show on if all we care about and are looking at body fat loss, building muscle, and aesthetics, then that's not true. Then it's not on the hierarchy. And so there's a group of people that'll be listening right now and be like, oh, that's not true, but yeah. They're more short-term focused. 100%. But it has to be said, right? So that's when he says that it's not him saying that they're on a macro, gram for gram, calorie standpoint. Muscle fat loss now. Right, as long as what's in there protein-wise says what it is, calorie-wise, that's all true to what the label says. It could be totally not organic, have all that other crap potentially in it. It doesn't matter as far as aesthetics or concern. Yeah, I would rank it like this. Quality of the protein itself. Is it pure? Is it tested? Does it have heavy metals and impurities? So that'd be number one, number two. Is it artificially sweetened? I'm not a fan of artificial sweeteners. I like natural sweeteners like monk fruit or stevia. And then third would be organic. And the way I put it is this, if it's important to you to eat organic, then I would say find an organic powder. If it's not that big of a deal, or if you consume most of your stuff organic, should you, because you guys ever read that list of what they call the dirty dozen of fruit? Like the ones that should- Like strawberries being at the top. Give you an example, like avocados, should you get an organic avocado? Probably not because the skin is so thick that when you eat the meat of it, you're fine. Strawberries, strawberries, you're gonna get a higher pesticide load because you eat the whole strawberry. You don't peel it or whatever. Well, along the lines of talking about, I wanna share it a little bit because whey is something that is consistently in my cupboard and why it is, so whey isolate. So what I want is, I want the least amount of calories and for the most amount of protein, with the least amount of anything else in there so I can control and mix myself. So a good whey isolate that I have in my house and I like it to be pretty plain. So I typically lean towards like a vanilla flavor that's kind of basic, kind of vanilla goes with almost anything. That way I can control the rest of the calories how I want. If it's a higher carb day or if it's a higher calorie- Put some fruit in there. Right, banana, peanut butter, fruit, like I use all the other things that add to the smoothie to control where I'm at in my diet. If I'm on the bulk, I'm doing things like Nutella, peanut butter, banana inside. They're making this amazing bulk type of shake. If I'm trying to lean out, I'm doing whey and maybe three strawberries in there and I've got a little bit of flavor but then my calories are like 200 calories for that. So I can make my own shake with the same whey isolate protein. I can make it a lean out type of protein shake with 200 calories or I can make it a bulk 900 calorie 1000. And I control all that with the same drug of protein. That's why that's always in my cupboard. Now whey protein, let's start with that. I would list that as the number one protein powder source just in terms of popularity but also in terms of studies. As a single source of protein, whey protein is amazing. It's very high in branched amino acids. It's a dairy source of protein, by the way. So it does come from milk. So one of the drawbacks is if you have an intolerance to dairy and dairy is probably if it's not number one, it's two or three in terms of food people have issues with. Dairy just some people just can't digest. I'm one of those people, regardless of whether or not it has lactose or not, dairy proteins don't do well for me. But if you can tolerate dairy, whey is amazing. Again, it's high in branched amino acids. Studies show that it's got health benefits so they'll compare whey to other protein sources for the elderly, for burn victims, for cognitive function. It's just a very, very amazing, easily assimilated, if you don't have an intolerance to it type of protein. It tastes really good. That's the other one. Whey, you can make it taste good. So good. And it's because it's dairy, right? So it's like if you're gonna taste a good protein, it's probably gonna be creamy and delicious. Yeah, most like a real milkshake, it's the closest thing you're gonna get that way. Now one of the other drawbacks besides the fact that it's a common intolerance is that for some people, this is a drawback for other people and nobody cares, but for some people, it's animal-based. So if you're a vegan and you're like, I would need to add protein into my diet, I'm gonna take a shake. Whey protein is off the table, obviously. It's coming from milk, so you can't do it. But whey's been around for a little while now. It's started getting popular in the 90s and I would say hands down, it's the most popular protein powder utilized by athletes, bodybuilders, or pretty much anyone. I think it's the top-selling protein powder category if I'm not mistaken. One of the best brands of whey protein, because I know I'm gonna get this question, where should I buy my whey protein? We like Legion, we work with Legion and they make a really good whey protein isolate that has, I think, per serving, like one or two grams of carbohydrates and it's flavored naturally so it doesn't have any artificial flavors. Tastes really good, chocolate, vanilla, I think they have a strawberry flavor. But yeah, definitely whey is up there. I know you're a big fan, Adam, I know you are too, Justin. And that was usually the one that I would recommend. So I keep both a plant-based protein and I keep a whey in my house. And what I've noticed about myself personally is I don't have as much of an intolerance as you do, Sal, where you can't have anything that's dairy. I notice that if I have several servings of dairy in a day is when I start to get bothered a little bit. Right, so I know if I'm getting cheese earlier, I did a glass of milk, which I normally would never do, but if I had something like that or I had ice cream or something else that's dairy related into my diet, I know that adding also a whey shake that day, not an ideal day to do that. So then that's when I'll kind of bounce back and forth. So I utilize both a plant protein and a whey kind of based off of what I've been eating regularly in my diet and so that's kind of how I manage that. So I pulled up some studies on whey before we got started with the episode because I found some really interesting studies because we already made the case, high branch amino acids, fast assimilation, taste good. So it's a great source of protein for building muscle and that stuff. But there's some other interesting studies and whey is actually a very well studied protein. There's been a lot of studies done on whey. They found that whey protein when they compared it to other types of protein it seems to reduce appetite a little bit better, believe it or not. It seems to have a more of a satiety effect than other types of protein which is if you're dieting, if you're cutting your calories this may be something that's important. Well, it's funny that you say that because when you think about those and it's whole food sense, if you were to compare plants versus dairy products the whole food version of that is more satiating too when you think about it. Sure, sure, sure. There's also studies that show that whey protein may actually reduce inflammation and improve certain heart health markers and overweight and obese people. So actually this study where they compared whey to other forms of protein and they found that there was a reduction in inflammation and in improvement heart health. Now here's the thing. There's other studies that show that dairy does this in general. That dairy consumption, well-sourced dairy reduces inflammation and is quite healthy. Now here's the caveat. This is absolutely not true for people with intolerances. So if you have any issues digesting dairy you're not gonna gain those benefits that I just talked about. So pay attention to if you get gassy or indigestion or if your gas smells really bad that's another sign or if you get constipation or diarrhea. Dairy, when I would work with clients if they had a food intolerance issue we couldn't identify what the food was. The very first thing I would always cut out is dairy and then the second thing would be something like gluten and soy and then we'd go down the list. But aside from that if you could digest it you don't have any intolerances. That way is a phenomenal, phenomenal source of protein for protein powders. Now would you say that probably one of the second best protein powders would be egg? Egg is, so here's the thing. There's different ways to measure protein quality. There's like bioavailability. There's certain amino acid scores. But one that I really like is called a digestibility corrected amino acid score. I love this one because what this is, this is a method that evaluates the quality of protein, but it's based on the amino acid requirements of humans and their ability to digest it. So what they did with the scores they said, okay, whey protein, high end branch amino acids got all this wonderful peptides in it and stuff like that. But let's use that and put it together in the context of the amino acids that humans need and how well they utilize those. So this is a great way to measure protein in the context of just being a human. And egg crushes. Egg is number one. It's been called- The complete food forever, right? It's the perfect protein is what's been called for a long time. I love egg. Now as a whole food source, it's the best source of protein that you'll find so long as you can tolerate it, so long as you don't have, like I said, food intolerances. And remember the studies show that whole egg is the best source of whole, of egg protein, not just egg white. I would also imagine, now I don't know this off the top of my head, but I would speculate that egg protein probably is higher in cholesterol too. Egg, well diet, if you eat egg, yes. If you get egg protein powder, which they are out there, and before whey exploded, that was like the one that bodybuilders would take. No, there's no cholesterol because they- Oh, they take it out. Oh, they take it out. Yeah, you will be hard pressed to find a whole egg protein powder. Oh, interesting. It's all egg white based. Egg white. Is there a reason for that? Yeah, most people who want a protein powder want protein. They don't want fat. They don't want any, so it's like, it would be like a milk-based protein powder, but with all the fat. Oh, that's a bummer. So then you lose the cholesterol benefits. You lose the benefits. Yeah, because cholesterol's got muscle building benefits. You also lose some of that. Like I said, the protein digestibility corrected, I mean, the acid score goes down for just egg versus whole eggs, I believe. So you lose some of those benefits. But egg white protein, still phenomenal, phenomenal source of protein. Now, here's, there's some drawbacks to it, okay? It's very sulfurous. Yes, yeah. Have you guys ever taken egg protein powder? Yeah, it went in and then out very quickly. Yes. And yeah, everybody paid for it. So do you think that's because of intolerance or do you think there's other factors playing a role? So sulfur is something that certain foods contain. Eggs have a very, very high- Eggs, broccoli. Yeah, so if you eat a lot of broccoli, you may notice your fart smell a little bit more. Eggs, that may happen as well. Plus egg protein powders don't mix well. And whereas whey's got more of a neutral taste, so you can flavor it with chocolate or vanilla or whatever, egg protein powders. Eggs taste achy. A little bit. It tastes a little like- There, man, there's trace elements of it. Yeah, like if you taste, I used to drink, because when I first became dairy intolerant, I went to egg, because I'm like egg's the best, right? The taste just wasn't that good. And then I would get like the gas and the smelly fart type of stuff. Well, and you know, you talk about two staple foods in the bodybuilder diet is broccoli and fucking eggs. I know. And you know, if you're a bodybuilder or a competitor, you may want to evaluate this a little bit. Your shit and your piecings. Yeah, you're not supposed to fart 15 times a day, that's not normal. So if you are farting that much and they stink like crazy, it could very much so be exactly this, you're having egg protein or you're eating lots of eggs. And in addition to that, you're also doing broccoli, which is just too much sulfur in the diet. You know, I'm gonna correct that a little bit. You're assaulting everybody. Most people fart a lot of times a day, it's the memorable one. You should not have 15 memorable farts. You know what I'm saying? Most of us fart, we don't think twice about it, but if you got a lot of them, that you're like, wow, that was, there might be something going on there. You might be having- The paint actually peels off the walls. Yeah, that's a problem. But yeah, again, egg protein powders are really, really good. I don't necessarily have a recommendation because I haven't, have you guys used egg protein powders? Yeah, it was like a J-Rob, you remember that guy? That's the one that I think I used a long time ago. Yeah, I used that because it was highly recommended to me and I tried to stick with it, but yeah, it just didn't settle right. I've done the liquid stuff. Like muscle egg or like I've tried those before. I used to add, you know, you can just get straight egg white liquid, which is high in protein too. So I used to make protein shakes. That's just a great thing to do. And then I used to take- Oh, those little cartons? Yes, and then I take pure egg whites and then I put it in and actually it frosts up the shake. It does. So it's a cool way to bump your protein. And it's minimally processed. It's not a powder. It's pasteurized, so it doesn't have salmonella. And you're right, you could use it as the base. So let's say you have a whey protein that's got 30 grams of protein and then you add an egg white base. Now you've got like a 56 grams of whey. Well, this is what makes sense. I used to add just eggs. Right, same difference, right? Yeah, I would do that sometimes too. If I didn't have the egg whites, I'd just throw the whole egg, especially when I'm on the bulk. Again, this is why I carry just a pure whey protein is because this is the type of stuff that I like to manipulate myself. People always ask, oh, what's the best Gainer shake? Well, the best Gainer shake is whey protein and make it yourself. Yeah, throw some milk in there, some eggs. Yeah, and egg combo. Before you know it, it's a 900 calorie, 1,000 calorie shake that tastes phenomenal. Peanut butter and Nutella banana with some extra egg whites on top of your protein. That's a little bit of coffee greens in there. That's the old school bulking shakes that I used to make. I used to love them. You can crack eggs and make a shake or drink them. Now here's the, I have to say this, disclaimer, it's not advised by the FDA because of the risk of salmonella. Now here's the deal. Rocky did it, that's the deal. The salmonella risk of doing that's actually low, but I still won't recommend it because I don't want to get sued and because I don't want the FDA breathing down mine pumps neck. Now here's my personal. This is me, Sal, this is what I do. I use the eggs out of the shell. I crack them in a shake and I drink them because I want the yolk. I don't want just egg white. It's got the cholesterol and you're right. You could throw it in a shake and add some protein powder and boom, you've got some great nutrients. Whole eggs also have choline in them which is like a phenomenal brain nutrient that some scientists say should actually be considered an essential nutrient super, super vital for pregnant women or women who want to get pregnant. Definitely make sure you have adequate choline intake. And if you eat eggs, that's a great source of one of the best sources of choline. The third best source of protein and I think we should go the vegan route because I want to provide some good vegan alternatives to people who don't want to eat any animal sources, who can't have egg. And not just vegan. I think there's a lot of people that are in your boat that are GB intolerant. Yeah, 100%. For sure, when you talk about the things that I had clients that were intolerant, dairy was one of the top. And to my earlier point that I made that many times when I would bump somebody's protein intake and they would get gassy, their stool would be loose, they would have digestive issues and they thought it was the protein thing. No, it was because we were using whey or we were using milk or using dairy products and as soon as I switched that over to a plant-based protein or switched the source of protein they were eating in whole foods, we saw a huge difference. So I think there's a lot of value for plant-based protein powders for not just vegans but also for people that may have issues when they have whey protein. Yes, and now why do you want to stay away from things you're intolerant to? Because intolerance is caused in immune system reaction, a small one, but there's still the systemic inflammation that happens. Can that slow down your progress? Well, absolutely. First off, if you have bad digestion we all know what that feels like. But also that chronic low level of inflammation could throw off the muscle building signal. It could change your appetite. I've seen studies that show that people who have an immune reaction will crave certain foods over others which could throw you off your diet. You want to eat things that your body tolerates very, very well. I can't do whey because I can't do dairy. I can't even do egg protein because I have a slight intolerance to egg whites. Egg yolks, I'm not a problem. Egg whites have a slight, so if I do a whole powder, it tends to mess me up. Plant-based proteins, I can digest very, very easily and most people will have a easy time digesting a plant-based protein powder. Now, here's the problem. It's on a gram per gram basis, single sources of plant proteins are just not as good as egg or whey. When we're comparing single sources. Which they do have out there. Yes. Well, most are. Most of them are. Pee or hemp or soy. Yeah, they go, but the most superior or the best plant-based proteins are the ones that actually take a blend. Yes, because what they'll do is they'll combine complementary plant-based proteins. Organified does this. Organified is my plant protein, powder protein choice. That's the one I choose above all others and I've used a lot of them. And one of the reasons why I like them, there's a lot of reasons, but one of them is they use a really, really complementary combination of plant-based proteins. The base being pea protein because it's very high in those amino acids that we talked about that are important, the branching amino acids, branching amino acids. But it's got other sources of protein in there giving you that combination. That's what you want. If you're a vegan and you want to bump your protein and take up, or if you have an intolerance to egg and whey and other protein powders and you, so you want to go the vegan route, go with something that's a combination. It's going to be better than if you go with just a single source. Well, one of the other reasons why I organize my favorite plant-based is because it tastes good. And one of the drawbacks. I don't know how they do it either because plant-based protein tastes good. They're like the warrior, I think son or something like that. It's like getting dirt off. One of the number one drawbacks of plant-based protein is it just, it does not taste good. Especially if you're comparing it to whey. Oh yeah. It tastes like you mowed the lawn and then put that in. I'm not even exaggerating. Or you sprinkled soil in your protein. I've gone through so many different plant proteins because again, because of those intolerances and digestive issues, and I go through them and I'm just like, and I can. Ground up ants concoction. Oh, like I gave you guys the other day. Oh, no joke, you're right. It's pretty similar. It actually tastes like a plant. Very earthy. It does, you're right. So taste is a big drawback with plant-based proteins, but there are a few that aren't bad. So combinations, you want to look at combinations. Obviously, of course, taste matters for a lot of people. So that's really important. Here's something else you want to pay attention to. We talked about protein quality. If you're going with a plant, especially a plant-based protein, whatever company you decide to go with, ask them for third-party testing for heavy metals. It was a couple of years ago, there was a study that came out that found some of the top plant-based proteins. Organify was not on the list. This is most common in vegan protein. This is more common in those because of the pesticides and herbicides that they use, especially, here's the thing, organic. The organic plant-based proteins were higher in heavy metals because the organic pesticides that they used were high in heavy metals. So then they were analyzing these protein powders, and I'm talking about some of the top brands, and if you want to know which ones they are, just Google this, Google plant-based proteins and high in heavy metals, and you'll find the report. Some of them were absurdly high. You don't want to- It's pretty shocking. It can consume heavy metals. It can cause neurological disorders. It can cause organ problems. Your body has a very tough time getting rid of them. Especially when a lot of people consider that almost like a health food. They're going into it thinking that they're doing their body, getting all these nutrients from it, and they're consuming all these heavy metals. Especially when we know a lot of people that, again, just put shakes into their diet because they think it's healthy, and they're doing one, two, sometimes three shakes like this a day, that's where this will start to lead to problems. Yeah, now again, Organify was clean when that happened. I remember we got on the phone and they provided us with all the stuff that we need to see to show that they weren't high in heavy metals. But that's something you want to look at because the plant-based proteins were the ones that had a lot of the problems along those lines. So, I mean, that's basically it, I would say, right? Those are all the things you want to pay attention to with your proteins. Here's the thing, though, at the end of the day, if you're consuming a high protein diet, the sources of protein don't matter as much. Okay, so I know we've said animal sources are superior, whey is great, egg is great. That matters more when your protein intake is half a gram per pound of body weight or lower. When you're getting up to one gram per pound of body weight, the studies show it's probably not gonna make a difference for you. And to that point, I want to touch on BCAAs because we didn't really touch it. Oh, right. And I know this conversation will also lead to more questions around this and I want to make this clear, even though we've said it before, that in the context of hitting your protein in target, like you're saying right now, this is where BCAAs are a complete waste of money. Oh yeah, if your protein intake's high, if you're in that 0.6 to 0.8 or one gram per pound of body weight, you are wasting your time and money by supplementing with any amino acid. You have more than enough of the amino acids from your protein, because that's what they're made up of. If your protein intake is low, let's say you're a vegan, you don't want to supplement with protein powders, your protein intake is 50 grams a day, you're hitting your essential protein intake, but it's just still low, you'll benefit from branched-chain amino acids. Well, and again, the suggestion that we give to that person, if you have a choice to take a scoop of branched-chain amino acids or just take a scoop of whey protein or protein powder, you're far better off just taking the protein powder. 100%, 100%. Oh, one more thing I want to touch on, soy protein, controversy around soy protein. So here's the thing, certain foods have what can be loosely labeled as estrogenic effects on the body. Soy is one of the most estrogenic foods on the planet. Now, does this mean it's unhealthy? No, but if you're somebody who has estrogenic side effects, if you're a man and you're noticing estrogenic side effects or low testosterone, if you're a woman and you're working with a functional medicine practitioner and they've said, hey, you have estrogen dominance. If you want to learn more about that, we did a great episode with Dr. Becky Campbell recently that talks about that. Then you may want to stay away from too much soy because it has phytoestrogens in it, it has estrogenic-like plant compounds in there that may cause more of an issue. This is why a lot of bodybuilders and athletes tend to want to stay away from too much soy. Soy proteins, that's why I don't like them. If you're gonna consume soy, go with the fermented natural sources of soy, like the ones that they eat in Japan. Don't go with this processed GMO crap that we have here because then you'll probably run into more of those estrogenic-like properties. And with that, go to mindpumpfree.com and download all of our guides, resources, and books. They're all totally free. You can also find the three of us on Instagram. You can find Justin at Mind Pump. Justin, you can find me at Mind Pump Salon. Adam at Mind Pump Adam.