 Hi everybody, good afternoon, good evening, good morning, wherever you are. It's about 9.15 here in Taipei, where I am, and I'm sure Dr. Khalil is in Abu Dhabi, he's in a different time zone, and Dr. Fatima is also in a different time zone. So this event will be conducted in Arabic, but I'll do some housekeeping in English first, right? For those of you who want to listen to the event in Arabic, please stay on. For those of you who need English translation, simultaneous English translation will be provided by our esteemed translator, interpreter, and you can go down to the bottom of your screen, and if you see an icon that says Interpretation, click on it, and you'll find a link that will take you to English, right? And for those of you who want to post questions, you'll not be able to speak to us, but you can write your questions through chat, and I will read your questions to our two guests of honor. And in addition to that, right, they'll be recording, the event will be recorded, and will be posted in both Arabic and English. You'll find the English recording on Sarah's website, and you'll find Arabic recording on Pierre Zaid Book Award website, okay? So I will not repeat this in Arabic, but we'll figure something out. So now, Tareq, if you're ready, I will start the event in Arabic. Sayedati and Issaati was said that. Ladies and gentlemen, good evening. We welcome you to this session brought to you by the Sheikh Zaid Book Award in collaboration with SOAS in London. The Sheikh Zaid Book Award is considered one of the world's leading prizes dedicated to Arabic literature and culture, and it has acquired global recognition and success since 2006, brought into recognition reward and readership to outstanding work by authors, translators, publishers, and Arabic scientific research that adds to what we know about Arabic creativity in order to encourage those who have provided exceptional services by authors, translators, publishers, and including cultural organizations. SOAS is well known for its global reach and its commitment to the global South and specific to the Arab world. The researchers provided by Orientalists in SOAS about Arabic culture, Arabic language, Arabic literature, and translation has global recognition that is hard to compete against. This year, both the Sheikh Zaid Book Award and SOAS have provided last year and this year, a number of sessions. And today's event is going to be on publishing and technology. And the next event is going to be on Thursday, the 12th of October, in which we're going to be starting at 1500 London's time on the detective novel. And today, we'll be talking about publishing and technology. And our guest of honor today is going to be, or are going to be Dr. Fatma Al-Boudi and Dr. Al-Sheikh. We're going to be talking in colloquial Arabic as well as classical. So Egyptian slang is going to be also our way to go in addition to classical Arabic. So let's be comfortable in our seats here. So Dr. Fatma is the director and the manager of the board of directors at the Dar al-Ain publishing, which won lately the Sheikh Zaid Book Award for publishing and technology. This is following what, this is what the award has mentioned about the Dar al-Ain publishing in Egypt. So quoting the Sheikh Zaid Book Award, Al-Ain publishing in Egypt is an independent publishing house that aims to provide knowledge to Arab readers in the fields of science, culture, and translation. Those who are managing the al-Ain publishing house try to know all what they can from the Arab world and the global scene as a whole, not just to publish quantity, but rather quality books. The book is considered an irreplaceable part of their strategy. They don't aim to gain financial gains, but rather to prepare the Arab person culturally in order to be in cope with the international knowledge scene. Al-Ain publishing house published in literature and scientific culture by supporting literature works and publishing significant high quality publishing. And they weren't just dependent on big names, but also provided opportunities to the creative youth. This is for Dr. Fatima and an Al-Ain publishing house. And now we're going to be moving on to introducing Dr. Khalil Al-Shaykh. Excuse me, going back and forth with my Arabic here. Dr. Khalil Al-Shaykh was a professor of literature and comparative literature at Al-Mukh University and as a member of the Abu Dhabi Arabic Language Center, which looks after the Sheikh Zayed Book Award, the Abu Dhabi Book Fair, the Al-Ain Book Fair and many more important cultural projects. And he is the force, in my opinion, and many, he is the force behind many of Abu Dhabi's Arabic Language Center publications. And he is today in his capacity as a member of the judging committee. We have 60 to 75 minutes to discuss things with both of our guests. I'll start and then I'm going to ask our esteemed audience to ask through our Q&A window. So we'll begin with questions about the challenges that face the publishing industry in the Arab world. In particular, in the Arabic language. And we will think, talk about the vision and the mission, the readership, copyright, translation, and especially, we will be discussing science, translating science books and the transformations in the technology of the book and the challenges that they have on the Arabic publishing industry. I'll start with Dr. Fatima. I'll start with you. What would you kindly tell us about the vision behind you establishing the Dar al-Ain publishing house? I am very keen to know the factors that made you keen on natural sciences and to provide the youth with scientific literature that goes hand in hand with their linguistic capability. Dr. Fatima, the floor is yours. Good evening. It's my pleasure to be here with you. In truth, from my scientific background out, I studied medical analytics from Ayn Shams University. So science is the background that made my entire circle consisting of also a very highly knowledgeable academics. And they were complaining that there was no publisher that would accept publishing the books that they love and that they translate. So we're talking here about 25 years. 25 years ago, there were no copyright rules. So the translator was the one who would pick his topic of interest. And I would like here to focus on the importance that the translator would be well-learned and very cultured and encyclopedia on his own because these translators, they don't just translate in their fields, let's say agriculture or nuclear science, but they also knew back in the day that Arab translators used to know about literature and other fields. So having a broad spectrum really supports your work. So a number of my friends, including Tayyip Sarh, may God bless his soul, in my family, had someone working in printing. So I had a background. However, publishing is something and printing is of all different fields. But they noticed my passion, my interest in culture and knowledge and that I loved attending seminars. And this is all well ahead of me having or establishing the publishing house. I was interested in that domain. So I found out that this is such a good idea that through my scientific background, I can pick topics and titles that interest the Arab reader that is starving to get their hands on such works. And one of the things that I'm truly proud of when the Kalima projects took off and a number of their members came to visit Arab countries, including Cairo. So I was preparing Stephen Hawke's book for printing. So they told me, no, this is going to be published by Kalima together with Darul Ain. So this is one of the things that I'm so proud of. And I believe that my specialty in publishing and the widespread distributing scientific culture aided me in collaborating with Kalima and other projects in our country. And now we're going to be moving to Dr. Khalil. And I would like to ask him the following question. Since you are a member of the judgment committee of the Shakespeare book award, tell us kindly about the vision behind the publishing and technology branch of the award. Thank you very much, Ms. Wanshan. And I would like you all for this beautiful meeting. First of all, I'm not a member of the judgment committee, but rather a member of the scientific committee in the Shakespeare book award. However, the question that you have kindly asked is of extreme importance. I find it necessary to clarify that this award is one of many awards within the Shakespeare book award. So the literature branch and critics and arts, translation, the young author, the youth, Arabic culture in other cultures and other branches, including last but not least, publishing and technology category. Yeah, and the arts technology. And finally, checking manuscripts, which has been added this year, this category, as for what has to do with publishing and technology. This category, if we check the number of publishing houses that won or got this award, we would find out that the mission, or rather the mission of the Shakespeare book award is by bringing them to light. For example, one of the winning publishing houses was Brill Publishing House, which was the second publishing house that got the award following a Korean publishing house that is important in this field. The question here, what are the criteria of the award when it comes in this category? First, that the publishing house would have a cultural project. Meaning that it's not just a publishing, that it's not just a monetary focused publishing house that is seeking financial gains only, but rather they have a cultural project, a cultural mission to spread cultural knowledge. Second criteria is that the publishing house would respect the intellectual property that their books represent, whether they're authored directly or translated from other. And that the third criteria is that publishing house would not publish anything that would lead to hatred, meaning that the studies and the cultural works that are to be published by this publishing house should be discussing beauty and goodness. This is when it comes to books. And another criteria is that for them to take extreme care about books and their publishing projects should be, the books should be in the best way possible, well presented and the contains are well picked that is up to the level of our esteemed readers. And to the writer themselves, of course and to respect the rights of both the author and the translator based on contracts that respect both parties at the same time. And finally, the last criteria that the publishing house which represent civilized manner, civilized attitude that they just don't just want quantity but rather quality. So these are the number of criterias and the points that we put into consideration when we're talking about publishing because as you know, especially Dr. Fatima, she knows that the publishing industry is multifaceted and it's not just publishing or picking a book and publishing it and distributing it in the market but rather there's a number of criteria both in the way it's presented and it's contains in a way that represents the nature of the Arabic culture and the global culture. So it should represent a certain benchmarking level that can be measured, can be benchmarked against and can be defined and not just an amalgamation of scripts that don't have any critical vision or any creative perspective. With this vision, of course there are challenges, many challenges that you face. So let's discuss the common factors between you and Dr. Fatima, these common issues. So what are the challenges that publishers face in the lingual and cultural environment? The current one, especially when it comes to do, to the language level and the cultural level of the readers in the Arab world. For example, I had a student in high studies that was very interested in sciences and he always complained about the absence of translated scientific literature, both actually scientific literature, whether translated or not into Arabic. So there's a big issue or challenge that is facing Dr. Fatima on a daily basis. So let's discuss these points and these challenges. So first, what is the situation of the Arabic language in teaching humanities and science? For example, those who would study Arabic language and Arabic literature, of course they would learn Arabic language and they would master it. However, those who would study the scientific branch categories, medicine or even agriculture, for example, they might be utilizing Arabic language. So is there any impact on the readership and thus on publishing in Arabic? So should we start with Dr. Fatima? In truth, in our languages, in our countries, all the sciences are being taught in English. However, what's important in what has been stirred and mentioned by Dr. Halil and truly touches me that publishers are, should be by accumulation, not by quantity, as in by quality, they should cherry pick what they publish. I don't have anything that is out of question, as long as the topics can be discussed and communicate and the human mind can benefit from what's within these books. I believe that that's the right criteria to pick them. Another thing that I wanted to touch upon that books should be published without any language errors. Again, and I repeat that because sometimes we have a novel, a very beautiful novel, however, you cannot complete it due to so many grammar mistakes. So if the writer is weak in Arabic, the publisher should fix the situation. So no novel or any book published by our publishing house without it being fixed by the editor, by the Arabic language checker, as well as the editor. So your novel should not take or the book should not be too long and it should not be utilizing a weak language. So a lot of authors understood now and we tell them straightforward that in the West, each great author has their own editor, knows the way they write, their methodology, so the editor, so what we are telling them is that we are pro-U, we're not against you and they accept this suggestion. As for the Arabic language, it's such a vast topic and we have discussed this before, that Arabic language needs to develop even more so that we wouldn't continue studying science and agriculture because the Arabic language center in every language should be the one that is responsible for that. But however, I want to assure you here that the new generation, the upcoming generation, there's so, because they're learning in international schools, the family are so keen on bringing private Arabic language to tutors. So Arabic language is always gonna be in safe hands and in a safe place, regardless of the changing circumstances and times. So this is my answer. I hope that my answer was enough or do you want me to talk more? Let's listen to Dr. Khalil first and then I'll follow up with other questions. Dr. Khalil, yeah, because I have a number of other questions, please. And truth, Dr. Wan, your question, touches two parts. First, the humanities and the other one touches upon implemented sciences. And I know, and I believe that you do know that there's a difference between them in reality and in dealing with them and in publishing when it comes to humanities, the issue, relatively speaking, it's not that big, not that grave of an issue. There's a lot of publishing, or there's a lot of works of Arabic in humanities and a lot of translated works in philosophy, in literature, in history, in psychology and in knowledges, in humanities, generally speaking. So there are a lot of translated works that are available in the many publishing houses that are out there. And the issue here, the gap between Arabic language and the other languages, specific Western or rather European languages, when it comes to the humanities side, there isn't that big of a gap. The works, the gap is there. However, it's an acceptable gap. And it can be fixed by translated works. However, the issue that you have touched upon, the true issue here is the sciences, medicine, engineering, technology, generally speaking. So these sciences, we have an, there's an issue in translating their works and in teaching them. And I'll start with the teaching side first. Arabic universities, either they teach in Arabic or in French in North Africa, in the Arab migrant. So the students that seek knowledge in these universities, they learn their medicine, their engineering and their computing skills in European languages. And there are two opinions here. We have the linguists, some of them state that it's natural to teach in Arabic because most countries in the world teach in their own national languages and the other have another say and of another opinion that teaching these sciences in Arabic language mean that we are disconnected from the developments happening in Arabic or rather in European languages when it comes to these sciences. True. So, so far it seems that the second opinion has the upper hand when it comes to reality. So the teaching language is still mainly in European languages in those universities. So there's an issue here, as you have mentioned when it comes to publishing and translation. And I believe the issue here lies in the term itself. So when it comes to these sciences, we suffer from the term itself, which means that technological terminology that is used or utilized daily by the West are so many and requires to be translated into Arabic. It requires a long period to be translated, which means that it should be taught that it's being taught in the Arabic language in their Western terms a long time before the translated counterparts are included. So regardless, the project of transforming into Arabic language and transitioning into Arabic language, whether it's classical or not would require, it doesn't require a decision as some would assume, but to have the right infrastructure for Arabic language to be the teaching language. However, however, in order for Arabic to be a teaching language, a learning language, we have to start from somewhere. And how do we start? There are different opinions on how to start. Some point to the translations in Damascus University in the 1930s, in the 1930s, how they translated medicine and engineering. And also they point out to the American University in Beirut when they first started and the Syrian Angelical University where they started teaching in Arabic and then they moved into English, which means what I'm trying to say here that we suffer from a major issue when it comes to author writing and translating in pure sciences, true. And the reason is that there is a shortage in capable translators and in following up with what the West has come up with. However, the Kalima project may be those who follow up the Kalima project, they would find that the Kalima project had did immense effort in translating many sciences, not from dedicated or specialized books, but rather from the sciences that consider an infrastructure for general culture and knowledge. And I find that quite necessary. And the reason behind its necessity that we should have terminology that agreed upon common scientific terms, a lot of the terms or different terms are translated into various translations which would really into having complete chaos here. So we should organize this process and it should be under the wing of a scientific vision, a unified vision. So it's natural that people would have different views just like science have different views. However, we should be discussing this and we should be working in a unified spectrum or perception. Is Dr. Wen still with us? Do you have Dr. Fatima? Do you have any remarks and comments? And before that, can I add a question here? Is that, and because of what has Dr. Khalil has just mentioned, is that why you're so keen on publishing for children and the youth and the general readership? In truth, what has encouraged me to publish a scientific literature is exactly what has been mentioned by Dr. Khalil that we have books in the States and Europe, scientific books and we have such a gap and there is no two would disagree. There's such a gap between us and the West when it comes to sciences and scientific research and experiments and all what has to do with that. So in order for us to have our generation and to encourage youth to read is by having translated words. And that's why I keep on saying an aware publisher, an enlightened publisher should follow with all of the latest happenings and the upcoming books in the West and to help build the right intellectual infrastructure for our youth. I'm going to touch upon the language level for the youth, the children, especially for the diaspora because I teach at London University and I noticed that the youth, they are not interested in learning Arabic language in the way that we teach them like the Sabawai way, which like a medieval way of doing things, focusing on classical way of doing things and the classical literature, et cetera. So there is a gap between the previous generation and the youth and also between the humanities and the sciences and also a gap between all of them and humanities or social studies. So those who come to saw us, they don't like learning language with us. However, they like to use language on a daily basis. However, their language is a bit of, it's mixed with English. So they keep on jumping between Arabic and English in a single sentence. They keep on hopping between them. I've listened to you in YouTube, Dr. Fatima and I know that Dr. Khalil is quite keen on communicating with Arabs in the diaspora. So can we talk and discuss this a bit and its impact and effect on your visions on publishing and the cultural vision? Is this question to me or Dr. Khalil to both of you? Okay, the floor is yours. No, yours. Okay, thank you very much. Okay, so we have an issue that Arabic language is facing, whether it has to do, whether in diaspora or the Arab cultures themselves here in the Arab world. So let's call it a challenge, a challenge that has been created by social media. Social media, whether it's Facebook or Twitter or any other platform has created this type of language if we can call it so, Dr. Wenchen, which we call in Arabic, Arabish as in Arabic and English. They mix Arabic with English, for example. And create a language that is a mix of different types of Arabic, whether it's classical slang and Western languages like English as well, which of course, naturally speaking, would lead us to what you have kindly mentioned, that the old generation's linguistic skills and the youth linguistic skills. So how can we bridge the gap? So I want to touch upon a couple of things here. First, publishing in Arabic language, when it comes to children and youth books, still needs a lot of specialization and knowledge. Youth books, for example, children books are available. So anyone who wants to write in this field and this field should be the one that requires rules and regulations more than any other. And this category would require a mastery of your language. So to write to a child of seven years old is different from writing to a child that is 10 or 11 years old. So Arabic English books, generally speaking, are devoid of these criteria and regulations. And even the content is not being regulated. So the content should be presented. I'm not saying here that we should be delving extremely deeply here into research, but rather there should be social literature and social criteria established to ensure that the content is accurate and the language used is expressive and connected to the topic, combining both beauty and the message that we want to be delivered. And if we roll from children's literature and to youth literature, we would find things even more complicated. So in the Arab world, generally speaking, the youth read adult books. They don't have enough books in their category in this field, whether for novels or literature that is specifically addressed to them. There are books about them, but it's not for them. So we need specialized, well-enlightened works and the social side of things should not overpower the artistic side. And when it comes to, and that would help us improve their linguistic skills. However, and what's important, how can we attract youth to children's, or how can we attract the children to their category of books if there are not enough attractive attributes to them? The child, the student should be in love with the texts, because if we don't, and unfortunately, a lot of these works miss that. If we don't have passion, and a lot of works are dependent on passion. If we don't have passion, we don't have the vital aspect that attracts them to read it in the first place. And children's books or literature, there are no entities that regulate this field. And I see it in publishing houses. A lot of children's literature that is full of mistakes, it's full to the brim with linguistic errors. And the content as well. And the images are totally different from the type of the book. Even the linguistic skills and the linguistic images are different from the type of the content. With all of that being said, this is the Sheikh Zayed Book Award has dedicated a category for this field, this branch. And we are keen in this category to provide children's works that talk to their childhood to have the right criteria, linguistically speaking, scientifically and culturally. And for these works to refrain from being too focused on the social aspect, but rather to encourage the child on how to have critical thinking skills, how to communicate with the others without having a scholarly message per se or a teaching message, but rather how to encourage them to learn themselves. As for the Arab diasporas, the issue here has another dimension, a quality dimension. So we have an Arab child that lives in an English or French speaking society. So of course it's natural for them to learn in those languages. And Arabic becomes a secondary language for them and not their mother tongue and thus issues come up when they're dealing with their Arabic language. However, I do believe that there are positive aspects to this. So I saw children or rather students, non-Arab students that have graduated from European and American universities that speak fluent Arabic. They write in fluent Arabic. Of course, there's not so many of them. However, with that being said, this rules that this language is teachable and they can write in it if someone puts their mind to it and find the right way to learn it. And they're truly willing to spend a lot of time and effort to learn these languages. And any language would not be learned without exerting a lot of effort into it, believing and learning it. Nothing comes easy. You have to spend time and effort to learn. Dr. Fatima, what is your opinion? I see that children in today's world, they gain their information and their culture, most of them from the internet, from the web and from scientific documentaries on the web. And their passion, their interest in books is diminishing, especially with the, and Dr. Khalil has touched upon on children of the diaspora that they speak other languages and Arabic becomes a secondary language for them. What I tell you, and I said it before that in most Arabic countries, the international schooling is in English or French or other languages. It became mainstream on widespread. So Arabic language became a foreigner in its own homeland. And with that being said, however, there's not, with that being said, or in addition to that, there is not enough effort exerted in publishing a modern, beautiful children's book. We're talking today about interactive books that is becoming more mainstream in the West while we are still, we are still at a whole different stage here. And you know, Dr. Khalil, when you visit book fairs, all the latest happening. So we should cherry pick publishers and we should not just give up on this is the current situation. We should just accept whatever is thrown at us. No. And I believe Dr. Khalil has his own technique in filtering things out or publishers out because this is what is being presented to our children. We see many children coming with their parents and their parents are truly passionate that their children would learn the Arabic language. In addition to their foreign teaching, they want their children to learn their mother tongue Arabic. So they're trying to find books and works that would achieve this goal. And unfortunately, there aren't many or there aren't even any. I have my own, it's not an inquiry but rather the youth is becoming such a loose term back in our day from 12 to 16, that's youth. But now their knowledge exceeds by a massive link. A lot of adults due to technological advancements and cultural advancements and knowledge advancements that are presented in today's world. So together with Dr. Khalil, we should find another term to name this category and not the youth anymore. The youth now, you cannot really define it. So in your opinion, we should decide age groups in a more accurate manner when we refer to them. Absolutely. The youth, children are from up to 10 years old have two categories, pre and post kindergarten. So post kindergarten, they become 10 years old and they know more knowledge and they have more information than things that we used to know back in our day in the Arab world. And they know their more technology tech savvy than we are. They are living in a developed world. So when I write a book for them and I keep discussing all stories, we should take into consideration, in my opinion, that the youth, we should find a solution in dealing with them and addressing them, Dr. Khalil, because this age category became much more mature from back in our days and what we imagined. And they read so many, in so many categories, they have a different perspective and different knowledge. And some of them know or are quite masterful of foreign languages, especially technical languages or tech centered languages. We find the new generation from a young age and they are using iPhones, cell phones, iPads and they can even make their own video clips. They can direct their own videos. So I find that there's a third gap between the linguistic language and the knowledge level when it comes to technology and being tech savvy. Does that lead to another challenge for publishers, Dr. Fatima? This is exactly it. So we're trying to transition from paper to digitization. So it's not just digital stuff. No. There's an interactive book now and another important book that we are, that we should be very focused on, that we should be focused on interactive books because they're so important, which of course that would require immense resources and capabilities. And as you know, if we want to utilize a musical note, we should get their copyrights and also a painting from an artist, we also should get the copyrights. However, I believe with time and as you know, technology when it comes first into people's hands, it's quite expensive. However, with time being utilized and it's being more and more generalized and open to the public and available, the costs lower. So we should consider how we should publish interactive books. And I do have a friend, an Egyptian friend that is focused on youth books and she finally issued an interactive book because this is all owned by her. This is her own IP. This is her own writing, this her own book and even the illustrations, she agreed on it herself with an illustrator. So we're going to deal with her as me and her on a number of interactive books. Okay, so let's discuss a bit about the impact of technological advancements on copyrights issues. For example, so there's a lot of thefts and forgery and copyright issues. So how does publishing houses deal with these issues or these challenges? God willing, I trust you and me in SLAM. We cannot do anything, we're helpless, right? Dr. Khalid, just a short while ago or not long ago, there was an Arab fair or a fair book in Berlin for Arabic books and they were shocked by the number of forged works that have been sent to Europe because there is no real penalties. So they forge books, they steal copyrights and they send them and I'm discussing with Arabic publishing houses to have a convention to discuss this phenomenon. So once there's a book, it's hacked digitally into a PDF format and we have no legal, there is no legal input here by the different authorities. They have no no legislation, no legislative power here. This is such an issue. And of course, this is an issue for the writers, for the publishers and we lose so much money here. This is one of the challenges that we face in publishing. The other challenge in distributing it in the Arab world, let's say, this is such an immense issue for a book from Algeria to be available in UAE or in Emirati bookstores. There's an issue when it comes to taxes and customs and other issues and thank goodness and even control and censorship. So thank goodness I was able to succeed quite a lot in publishing and in delivering culture. I have published for every Arab nationality from North Africa, the Arab Maghrib from Algeria, Maghrib or Morocco, Tunisia to the UAE to Kuwait. So these books, I bring them together with me in all book fairs. Of course, and as you know, Dr. Khalil, there is no censorship. Things are moved easier with, if it wasn't for that, if it wasn't for all of these facilitations, our books would be in a pretty sorry state. Dr. Khalil, do you have any comment? I'm not an expert in publishing. I'm not specialized in this field. However, and if you would allow me to have a different approach here, a different perspective, which is the making of the book itself. The book industry is not an individual task, but rather it's a community. Yeah, it's a community one and a collaborative effort. So collective effort. When publishing houses had different, they're quite different in their criteria and their capabilities than chaos ensure. So there are publishing houses that have straight ethical criteria and others that hack and steal and forge whatever they like. In my opinion, we should have an ethical doctrine of honor between publishers because the publishers are the ones that are in control of this aspect. And they should truly control this thing amongst themselves and to come up. And to come out of this, of the small perspective and the financial gains and the me only perspective into delivering cultural knowledge and working together. And as has Dr. Na Fatima has gracefully mentioned, the printing aspect, a printing can be done by anyone. It's an easy thing to go anywhere and to print. However, publishing is a whole different game. It's so important. It starts with the writer and the publishing house has to read the text to edit it and to rewrite it if it was linguistically weak. And then also there's the scientific aspect and dimension and to ensure that the copyrights, if it was a translated work and also to ensure that there is a creative dimension. So publishing houses are the ones that are responsible for that big time in the Arab world. Because it's easy for you to take your work to a publishing house. And unfortunately books come in and go out without have any editing, without any amendments or any fixes to their issues which would lead unfortunately to chaos in the publishing domain and to having disparities in the quality. The same book, for example, five times have been translated, the same exact work translated five times in the Arab world. And you would find it translated from a language, translated from French in Morocco and then from Egypt translated from English. So you would have the same language translated several times whether from its mother language or from other translated works. And there's such a disparity, a massive disparity between these different translated works. Who's responsible for that? I believe some important centers in this field since we are one of them, we face chaos in translated works and other aspects and all of that would require honestly in control. And who's controlling this is not necessarily the country itself, the government but publishing houses should have their own input here. So we should work on this, but unfortunately because a lot of publishing houses just look to gain an easy buck. So they debutify books and that's how it is. I would like to add Dr. Khalil that sometimes the first translated work when it's translated from its foreign language, it's translated beautifully because usually back in the day translated were translated were usually quite, knowledgeable and they took things quite seriously. And because a novel has no copyrights, for example, is translated as Dr. Khalil has mentioned in three, four up to 10 publishing houses. Very weak translation. And I could almost swear that they used applications like Google Translator and others like really bad translation. This is all about translation. This is all conducted by small publishing houses as Dr. Khalil has said, just because they want a fast gain, quick money. And this is due to, there are so many book fairs and exhibitions because they want to come to keep on hopping between different book fairs to sell because one of the biggest challenges for publishing and distribution is the distribution itself, the publisher outside the Arab world is focused on their main interest is to publish the right book and easy to read book with no grammatical errors and then to take it to the distributor. So we have a field called distribution. So this guy, this profession is called distribution and the distributor knows where to take the book and the Arab world, the publisher is the publisher and the distributor and the PR as well as the one who is having the copyrights. So we work in extremely difficult circumstances and we hope that we raise up with the publishing industry in the Arab world to reach the global level and we did achieve milestones. However, we don't have the capabilities and the regulations of the West. We don't have institutes that teach distributors. We don't teach that in our institutions. In slang, we say, is anyone who wants to become a distributor can just wake up one day and become a distributor. Can I add something? Please, Dr. Khalid. Let's keep things a bit positive so that we don't see everything in doom and gloom. The Shakespeare book award is an award, has an award for the translation category and it has a grant. This grant translates the winning effort, the winning books into other languages and we have translated a quite a respectable number of award-winning books into many other languages into English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and many other languages like Russian and others. And this work is truly being done on a very high level of professionalism. So we give it to publishing houses that have good reputation in the West and here and the translation is being reviewed and then it reaches a very high level of translation. And these translations truly have reached a very high level and they have very good reception. I'm talking about something different, the opposite, Dr. Khalid. Yeah, I know, dear. As for the Kalima project, it has translated more than a thousand books so far and I would like to point out two things here. First, there isn't a book that hasn't been translated from its original language. We haven't translated a single book from a secondary language. Of course it's known, of course that's one. Secondly, the translators we have now, we have a network of translators of over 500 translators and they are a network and a basis, an infrastructure for translating in Kalima project and they're paid good subs and these translators, translations are being reviewed. In addition, a book that is published by Kalima project goes head to head with the best of them from the West. So you can set a Western or European book or an American one and compare it to our print, our copies and you would find us of the same level. This is all of this effort to bring to the Arab readership a book that is up to their expectations that respects them. You have pointed out to the technological advancement and I do totally agree with you that digital books, electronic books and those that utilize AI, they're becoming more and more widespread. However, what I keep on saying from what I have learned, there is a linguistic aspect we should refrain when we utilize the technology and choose it, we should set Arabic language as our main focus because if we don't have a beautiful language of a creative nature then all of our creative effort goes to waste. Dr. Fatima, the last word is yours. Thank you. I do agree with Dr. Khalil. Excuse me, just one second if you please. I apologize because I'm Ramallah in an exhibition. So I took from my time to be with you. So hello, can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. You can hear me? Great. So I do agree with Dr. Khalil that the beauty of the language used and the texts are very important and that's why I said at the beginning that some translations, some important translated works, those that are being, it has been re-translated badly because of publishing houses. Why? You have a beautiful translation. Why should you redo it? And I wish that you were doing a better job and doctor here. And I'm talking here generally speaking about publishing houses. Of course, Kalima Project has filtered and truth. It set important pillars and cornerstones that publishing houses should be keen on copyright and have all the criteria to be a respectful publishing house. However, the Kalima Project alone would not cover the entire needs of the Arab world. I'm talking here generally speaking from a broader aspect that generally speaking, this is what happens. However, thank goodness that we have projects that are of the highest level and encourage other countries to follow suit and translation is quite important. And what's even more important than translating works that we should preserve the quality of the language. I feel so upset from publishing houses that give grants to translators because grants is a double-edged sword. It's a sword with the good publisher. It would encourage them to pick up important topics and in translations and copyrights. But at the same time, a weak publisher would take it as an excuse. And by the way, I'm not here trying to paint a dark picture or painting. I'm just talking here from reality and talking for the general good for the public interest here. I really hope that they should, as in the grant, the grantors, they should check who publishing houses are going to get this grant because we have publishing houses that have been established just to have a hold to have a chance at the grants. And I noticed that translators in Arabic language or in English, they are in a fix. Yeah, they have, they need to be organized just like others. Doctors, they require knowledge and culture. I've worked with books that have been translated by Dr. Ahmed Mustaghiyar by the cream of the cream in translation, Dr. Mustafa Fahmi. Name them. Well-known names, Dr. Ahmed Sokhli, Dr. Fatahullah Sheikh, all of them are scholars and they have a well-established and actually their love for passion, their passion for knowledge has pushed them forward to do these translated works and their passion to deliver this work to our Arab readership is the one that is pushing them forward or has pushed them to do this, to discuss things and to find the right term. However, in today's world, they're using Google Translate. But guess what? We know who you are and we know what kind of tricks you're doing. We have a few questions from our esteemed audience. Let me read them out for you and prepare yourselves for the answers. So the first question, my question is about the issue, the future of the Arab book in this digitized times. This is a question by Dr. Mohamed, a professor in Muhammad bin Zayed Humanitarian University. Another question, do you believe the absence of a well-studied plan in picking translated works in the Arab world is the reason why publishers have an issue in having a quality quantity leap in bringing forth a better level of translation that goes with the quality that readership wants. Another question, social media language is keeping away from Arabic language, reference from using Arabic language. And most of them prefer digital books, e-books, if they do want to read. So how did publishing houses faced the easiness of getting your hand on a digital work compared to a conventional one? Youth or children literature and the UNESCO is focused on the multi-linguistic aspect. So how can we establish this deep sense of pride in our Arabic youth and their works in the works that are done in the Arabic language. Arabic publishing house, Jareer and others are competing in publishing translated works. So where is the convergence in the Arab world? And what is the governmental entities, what is their role in unifying the efforts? Why isn't there a single entity that is focused on that? So we have so much advancement. Should I start with Dr. Fatima, if you allow me, because I have a meeting waiting for me. Okay, we truly started in producing digital books and we have platforms in which we showcase these books on them. And we have people from all over the world that are reading in Arabic on them. And quite soon we'll have our own publishing house platform to showcase our own works as for publishing houses and competing for translated works, because the publishers find that translated works have more credibility than original works. Some publishing houses come up with very respectful books, respectful works and topics, which I mean by that, useful scientific topics. And some publishers, as I have touched upon before, they take the easy route. No one tells the publisher what should you publish or not. We don't have such criteria. At the end of the day, the judgment is up to the readership. The other question I think I believe was about childhood. This is a good remark. I believe most publishing houses are dependent or children or youth publishing houses are focused on digitized work. However, there are certain topics that are being controlled. So let's say we get a book that let's say it's about swimming lessons. However, the children are wearing their entire attire and not swimwear. And that's happens. It's a weird approach. So, however, doing that, sure, the reader can leave this book and pick another. However, doing this damage, the damage is done. I am so happy that I had the chance and the honor to be here with you in this meeting. I was hoping, I wish that I was in Cairo in my own home with you or rather in Cairo with you. And not in Ramallah at a book fair. However, again, Dr. Khaled, I was so honored to meet you here. And Dr. Wen, excuse me here if you would allow me. Thank you. Please go ahead and thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. God bless you. Bye bye. Godspeed. Dr. Khaled, do you have any remark or comments? Yeah, quickly speaking, if you please. Five or six questions, however, answering all of them require a long time. However, we can categorize them into a number of categories. One that has to do with technology and the other with content and another that touches upon publishing. So three categories here. I'm one of those that believe in the digital books or sound books, voice books are not a hindrance. They're not competing with with traditional books. I believe that they complement one another. There is no harm in reading paper books or digital ones or to hear them audio books. So as long as the reading is going on, that's that's our goal. However, naturally speaking, paper books are still dominating the field. However, I'm sure publishing houses that we complain that there are digital forms now. However, publishing houses are still printing books in paper books in their millions. And they're still the traditional book is still dominate the cultural scene. And I to me, complaining to me, it's just like coming up with an issue where there is none. So all of these efforts, they strengthen and backup reading. It does not destroy them. So these are all all roads lead to Rome, basically, as for children literature. I do agree with the question here. There is a disparity in knowledge. And yes, there are many Arabic works that are translated in a way that seems as if it's addressed to children. While it's been taken from Western European books and is tailored to the Arabic content. There's no issue here. No harm here. However, it should be said that this is a work that has been taken from a different work and that we have adapted it to the Arabic content. So, so we should adapt the work to the environment that we are addressing. And we should consider it a kind of others literature or culture, as for what's going on in the Arab world when it comes to publishing. This is a vast topic. And in its issue, it's extremely hard for anyone to regulate it. If it wasn't, and I do believe that it's left to the publishers themselves to regulate it amongst themselves. And maybe together with the government to come up with a with a better industry in which we have the book industry. In which the book is a true work of creativity of innovation. And we wouldn't just take from others, but we would also deliver our own accurate works, honest works, and the translator would be the right person to translate these works. This, we should regulate a lot of the characters that is happening so that would all would end up in the same or in the right manner. Thank you so very much. Thank you for this final word. And which we can end this session unless we have other quick questions. Shall we sort of end this and say good night and thank you so much Dr Khalil and Dr Fatima who's gone to her other commitments. So thank you so much for coming. And I'll see you hopefully on Thursday the 12th of October next month at 3pm UK time or London time. Until next time. Thank you so much Dr Khalil and see you soon.