 healthy planet show for people who care about their health and the health of our planet on the ThinkDeck Live Streaming Network series. I'm your host, Dr. Grace O'Neill. Joining me today are Alyssa Nairi and Afsun Shirazi, members of the board of directors of the Student Animal Legal Defense Fund at the Ruling S. Richardson School of Law. Welcome Alyssa and Afsun. Thank you for being on the show. So tell us about what the Student Animal Legal Defense Fund, what it is, what it's about. The Student Animal Legal Defense Fund is a chapter, a student chapter, at William S. Richardson School of Law. The Animal Legal Defense Fund is a national legal organization that tries to promote animal welfare. And we, as a student organization, want to continue to promote the message of Animal Legal Defense Fund by spreading the awareness of laws and policies nationally, internationally, and locally here in Hawaii that impact not only the domestic animals in our lives, but also animals that are used for food products and native species of animals whose lives are threatened by environmental degradation. That's great. So can you tell us more about the Animal Legal Defense Fund and what kind of work they do besides supporting the student chapters? Animal Legal Defense Fund is basically our parent organization and they are involved in litigation and different things for any type of animal welfare. They're a non-profit organization. Yeah, Afsun, did you have anything to add? Yeah, for a few decades now I believe the Animal Legal Defense Fund has been at the forefront of animal rights in the United States. They have been the key litigators in many U.S. states and have had cases heard in front of the Supreme Court. Recently they were involved in a case involving a goat that was at a state fair that was the property of a young girl and this goat was taken away and taken to slaughter and without the child's permission. This was a really big case recently that highlights this kind of curious distinction of property and life. Are animals living beings with their own rights or are they the property of humans for which laws and policies need to protect that property right? So the Animal Legal Defense Fund takes on all sorts of cases whether it's food systems related, whether it's house pets related, whether it's just safety and health of living beings in our country and on the planet and their mission is really wonderful and we're really happy to be able to promote and work on their projects as a group of law students here in Hawaii. That's great. Are there any specific cases that you know about in Hawaii? I know there's several projects that are going on at least with a good food movement. I don't know if the Animal Legal Defense Fund in Hawaii has been involved in any cases. I'm not familiar with any cases based here out of Hawaii in recent years however I know that the guidance that Animal Legal Defense Fund provides nationally has helped the state of Hawaii and the state legislature come up with policies and regulations that address several pressing issues not only issues related to invasive and endangered species here in the state, the safety and cleanliness of the waters around the state of Hawaii, but also issues related to the ever-growing feral cat and feral chicken populations. So that's a great segue into the event that you guys put on. I think it was last month, the One Health Supposium. Do you want to talk a little bit about that, Alyssa? Sure. So One Health is this idea that environmental law, well for us it would be the idea that environmental law, animal law, and kind of like human law, human health kind of work together to promote the well-being of animals, humans, and the environment. And it's actually it's actually a concept started by veterinarians but we kind of are trying to see if there's some parallels in the legal field that we can utilize. You guys had a whole bunch of speakers in the lineup. Can you talk about some of the people that you had in the symposium who are speaking? I thought it was very good, the parts that I was able to see. Want to go ahead with that, Absod? Sure. So since One Health was initially created by incredibly thoughtful veterinarians, we decided it was really essential that we first start our program off with the voices and perspectives of veterinarians here in Hawaii that are active in the One Health movement. We invited a veterinarian that's based in Maui that does work for the USDA. We invited a veterinarian who works in a little clinic on the west side and they just provided us a really excellent background of the issues in One Health and how they how both locally and internationally efforts need to kind of become intermingled so that way we're not just creating kind of band-aid interventions that don't necessarily that aren't necessarily thoughtful in this interconnectedness reality of human health, animal health, and planetary health. And we also were able to screen the film Accidental Host which was a collaboration between physicians and biologists and local community members here in Hawaii to talk about rat lung worm which is a parasite that is ever prevalent in Hawaii but also expanding globally due to continuous environmental degradation. Very excellent film and we're really grateful to have had some experts talk about how this documentary was produced. And we also had some legal experts and public health experts talk to us about public health's approach to One Health, looking at our oceans and how oceans impact human health and then also talking about some local litigation around environmental health and indigenous sovereignty. And we ended our program with some policy action. How can we as community members not just hear this information about One Health but actually take action learning about the legislative process? A lot of Americans don't know about this very basic part of government and civics which is state legislatures and city councils. They are extraordinarily active in impacting our day-to-day lives. So it was a really, really excellent day to allow law students and community members who have expertise in a variety of fields to talk about something that is so integral to who we are as a species but also just the nature of One Health is that it's interdisciplinary. We have to have lawyers and scientists and veterinarians and community organizers and animals themselves involved in making the planet healthier for all of us. Yeah, I really enjoyed the section on feral cats. I thought it was very, it was very good because you think about those cats all the time but I mean it's just there are a lot of factors into controlling the population everything and it's not as simple as you think about, you know, it could be but I mean it's really quite complicated so I really enjoyed that and unfortunately I really wanted to see the the movie on Accidental Host because I did work on the Big Island a while in Helo Medical Center and there were a few cases about one worm that I had heard about I hadn't actually seen but you know I don't know if they talked about it on there but I would like to see the movie at some point as well. So let's go and talk about some of the other events that you guys have put on. I know there was another event, Animal Law. Do you want to talk a little bit about that, Alyssa? Sure, so you're talking about when we had Adam Karp? Sure, so he basically gave us a crash course in Animal Law and that was really interesting because we don't currently have any animal law course at our school. It's just like a nice way for us to get the rest of the student body involved and let them know what we want to learn about and hopefully we can kind of push our administration to bring in an animal law course in the next couple years. Yeah, that would be wonderful. There's so many different topics in Animal Law as you're saying it relates to the environment, you know, just the interaction between humans and animals like with the feral cats, also just the health of humans and animals. It's all interconnected. So I think a lot of people would be interested in that. I'm wondering, are there any events you guys are planning for the future? Another one health symposium or something else? Sure, so we definitely hope that in upcoming semesters we're able to continue to invite Animal Law, Animal Welfare experts to contribute to expanding knowledge among up and coming lawyers here in the state of Hawaii. But annually we do host our PAW Review, which is a fundraiser that we do which we encourage all students at Richardson to participate in. PAW Review essentially is a photo pet beauty contest, but with the money that we earn from these we are able to donate and contribute to some of the local nonprofits and Animal Welfare groups to support their efforts. And it also allows us an opportunity to coalition build here in the state. And moreover with these partnerships that we build with nonprofits, we tried to organize some volunteer days. So we do every year volunteer day at Aloha Animal Sanctuary on the east side, which we love to do. We just go and we help clean up the property or we help put up new fencing or we help secure some of the cages for some of the sick animals. And these kind of volunteer events just allow us to have a bit of a reprieve from the hectic nature of law school, but also connect with the very beings we're trying to protect. So those are really, really fun events that we really love to do. And we're always trying to find other groups in town or around the state to find more opportunities to give back. And hopefully we'll build a relationship with the Lanai Cat Sanctuary that has been established a few years ago that looks really excellent. Also, we really are big fans of the local cat cafes. They might seem small, but like we've talked about, there's a huge cat over population. I think during the talk, Dr. Jarissa Ching explained that there's, on a walk alone, over 300,000 feral cats. So these cat cafes are really active in making sure that those cats that can be socialized and the kittens can find good homes and receive the health care that they need. So these are great organizations and we try to continue to build partnerships with them. Yeah, no, that's wonderful that you guys do that kind of volunteer work. It's a good bonding situation for everybody. And it's also just making yourselves known to the community and maybe forming some relationships for your futures. I'm wondering how the both of you got involved in the Student Animal Legal Defense Fund if you want to go first, Alyssa? Yeah, sure. So when I started, I was, I've actually always had an interest in farm animal law. I knew that I wanted to get involved in something like that and I was like super excited when on the, it was basically like our club day. I saw the stand and it was the first one I gravitated towards. So I automatically joined and then there wasn't an animal law conference held in Portland shortly after that. So I was able to attend that with them. And I think after the first semester, I was able to get on the board, which was really awesome. That's wonderful. How about you, Afsoon? My background is in public health actually. So I am always thinking about, you know, what it means to be healthy and happy and living on this planet. And I've always had, you know, a close connection with the animals that I've encountered in my lives made my life. And for me, I am a big, big fan of cats and frogs. And I can't imagine living life without these critters around me. So when I saw that Richardson had an Animal Legal Defense Fund student group, I thought might as well start going to meetings. And at that time, this was fall 2021. So it was all totally remote. But we were able to start doing some planning for future semesters and future academic years. And like Alyssa was able to go to the Animal Law Conference this last year, in 2021, we were also able to participate in the online remote Animal Law Conference. It's also based out of Lewis and Clark. And that year, there was actually a One Health section and session. And that's kind of what stimulated us to start thinking about maybe we should talk about One Health when we are back in person. And we are able to go back in person. Now we can start thinking about another possible symposium. I'm hoping that we can get all of our things together to have another symposium in spring 2024, maybe on the topic of food rather than on One Health. But I think food is also so critical to our experiences as humans here on this planet. And so I hope that any community member is interested can participate. It's open to the public. And we would love to have more community members involved in our student organization. No, I think that's great that you guys opened it to the community, because that's how I found out about your organization. And I'm wondering, are there undergraduates who might be pre-long participate in your organization? Or how does that work? So as a student organization at Richardson, due to the way that things are organized, there are lost student members. And then we can just build relationships with other student groups. So for this event, this One Health symposium, we were able to get a variety of undergraduates to come and participate. So that meant that we were reaching out to student orgs like the pre-vet student organization to the public health undergraduate and graduate student organization. And we somehow got a botanist to participate. And we also reached out to 808 vegans, the local vegan organization, which also sent some members. So the undergraduates are eager to learn about this kind of stuff. And then the community members are eager to give their feedback and their opinions about, you know, what does it mean to live in peace with other species on the planet? So it was really interesting to try and connect to all these different groups on the island. And I think one thing that was really beneficial was reaching out to veterinarians who are from here, who are actually involved in other projects at UH, particularly with the pre-vet student organization. And, you know, it's really cool to kind of show young scientists or young social scientists or, you know, young vegans of all ages what our goals are is blooming lawyers. So what do you guys have planned for when you graduate? Do you plan to do something in animal law? If you want to go first, Alyssa? Yeah, I do. So I'm actually going to get the environmental law certificate from our school. I don't know exactly what I'm going to do. I'm still, I'm only in my second year, so I'm still kind of like exploring. I'm actually doing my internship this summer with an animal, a non-profit animal law group. So I'm kind of just trying to see where that will take me. What is the non-profit group called? It's called animal outlook. And they were actually kind of, they're kind of associated with ALDF in a way too. So that's kind of how I found out about them from the animal law conference. Right. And how about you, Afsun? What are you planning to do when you graduate? It's nearer for you, I think. Well, as I mentioned earlier, my background is in public health. So I am currently training to do public health law and some things related to worker health, environmental health. I'm still kind of looking into what kind of federal governmental opportunities there are for me. This summer I am a, I'm working at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as a public health law fellow and I'm hoping to just find a career that makes me happy but also allows me to continue to promote the health and well-being of all people and critters on the planet. And how about, how long has your organization, the Student Animal Defense Fund at the William S. Richardson School of Law, how long has that been in existence? Is that a relatively recent thing or has it been around a long time? I want to say that it has been around for at least a decade on and off. One thing about COVID was that a lot of muscle memory within the student organizations kind of atrophied and so while we do have some kind of, we do have links and practices that have been going on since the founding of the Student Animal Legal Defense Fund at Richardson, it's been really neat to kind of recreate the student organization over the last few years and we're hoping to install some sustainable practices so that way in case of another pandemic where things suddenly shut down or there's another, you know, other issues that may, you know, cause problems or we're hoping that we can put the puzzle pieces together so the student organization doesn't disappear in the future. We want to encourage sustainability of the student org. So, I know that you guys have been inspired by different things to join the Student Animal Defense Fund at the School of Law, but I was wondering was there, was there like a specific bond? I know Absolute has said you especially like frogs and kittens or cats and how about you, Alyssa? Was there, are you, is there a specific animal that inspires you or did you have a special bond with farm animals growing up? Honestly, it kind of started from my love for the environment. That's why I became vegan because I realized how like what we eat as humans has such an effect on the environment and then I think kind of hand in hand in that it's just reading about the atrocities on factory farms. So, yeah, I've read so many books on that it really blows your mind. So, it wasn't a hard decision for me and yeah, so that's why that's why also I'm getting the environmental law certificate. I just kind of want to merge those two interests. Do you have any pets or? Yeah, I do have a pet. I have a dog. I grew up with animals. I had like 15 animals in our house at one time. What kind of animals besides the dog? Just different dogs or? Well, growing up we had I think four dogs like four cats. We had hamsters, fish, bunnies. I've had everything. Wow. Are you from Hawaii originally or? No, I'm from San Diego. Oh, okay. Okay. Nice. And how about you have, you said you have had frogs before or was that just that you liked frogs? Well, I was growing up. One of my close family friends was a herpetologist at the University of Arizona in Tucson. I was born and raised in Tucson, Arizona. And my father is a toxicologist. So he conducts research at the Arizona Poison and Drug Information Center on antivenom. And so growing up, I was always kind of exposed to these often forgotten ignored or, you know, these creatures that people are often repulsed by, but I grew up in love and appreciate. So in Tucson, there's one particular critter that is very near and dear to my heart. And that's the Gila monster. And the Gila monster is very thick, muscly and meaty has a nasty bite and releases venom. And I just think that Gila monsters are one of the coolest critters around and uniquely found in the Sonoran Desert. I am such a desert rat. Like I will always, always talk about my hometown, Tucson and the incredible Sonoran Desert that it's founded. So are you planning on staying here? Are you going to move afterward or you're just going to go wherever the job takes you? I am intending on taking the bar here in Hawaii and also taking the Arizona bar. I would like to be able to contribute to the state of Hawaii that has been so gracious and welcoming to me. But I also know that I need to give back to my hometown. So I am kind of going to go with the flow. And how about you, Alyssa? What are your plans? Are you going to go back to California? Do you plan to stay in Hawaii or just take you, you know, just go wherever the job takes you? Um, I've been here since I was 17. So it would be hard to leave. I'm also a surfer. So that kind of like ties me to here. But I don't know. I have to see what what law school brings me and yeah, see where see where I end up. So did you do your undergraduate here as well? Yeah, I went to the University of Hawaii West Oahu. Oh, nice. Nice. And how about you as soon? Did you do your undergraduate here or you just came here for law school? I did my undergraduate at Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona, and I did my master's in public health at Tulane University in New Orleans. So I've kind of been going around places trying to find my niche and I'm happy to have landed here for the time being. Oh, that's great. Well, I mean, if anybody wants to kind of get in touch with your organization or get involved, how would they do that? They can send us an email. Okay, cool. Yeah. That's and oh, we also have an Instagram. So DMing us would work, send a message in the comments. Yeah. And we also encourage anyone who's interested in animal welfare or somebody who might be interested in becoming a lawyer or being involved in animal welfare policy to follow the Animal Legal Defense Fund as the national organization. I know that they have newsletters. We try to stay up to date with the things that they're publishing and releasing to the public. And that's a great way to just know what's going on in your local community and in the United States generally. Well, thank you so much. We're out of time. So we have to wrap it up. This is Dr. Grace O'Neill. This is Healthy Planet on the ThinkTech Live Zoom Network series. We've been talking with Alyson Afsoon, members of the Student Animal Legal Defense Fund of the William S. Richardson School of Law. Thanks to Ash, our broadcast engineer, and the rest of the crew at ThinkTech for hosting our show. And thanks to you, our listeners for listening. I'll see you in two weeks for more of Healthy Planet on ThinkTech, the show for people who care about their health and the health of our planet. If you have ideas for the show or questions for my future show guests, please contact me at Healthy Planet ThinkTech at gmail.com, check out my website at graceandhawaii.com, or Instagram at Graceful Living 365 for more information on my projects, including future show guests. I'm Dr. Grace O'Neill. Aloha, everyone. Thank you so much for watching ThinkTech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at ThinkTechHawaii.com. Mahalo.