 Record on this beautiful welcome everybody to the 22nd of February 2024 Hyperledger supply chain and trade finance special interest group. Today, as you see at the top here, we have Leanne Kemp, a veteran of all this blockchain and supply chain stuff she's smiling there. We'll get to that here. So anyways, we have her so we're very excited that she's joined us. Thank you whether you're listening currently, joined in presently or whether you're listening to on YouTube, which is where most people tend to listen to or watch our sessions here. We're glad you're here. All are welcome as part of Hyperledger overall thoughts. We're glad that everyone from around the world is here different thoughts, different ideas. In addition, in the trust policy, don't say anything confidential here that you don't want to share with anybody else because this is an open forum and open group here open source group. So don't share anything confidential. So we got sessions here. Let me just go through real fast. We have a number of open session or sessions here, upcoming events, some Hyperledger, some not. I will say I was looking at our list. We are booked out until basically the end of May with sessions. So we got some we found some good ones and people have come to us. So if you have some other ideas of things that you think are exciting, please let us know and we can try to get that starting down the schedule in June and July before if you can believe it, we break for summer in August with that. So anything else? Oh, I know what I want to talk about here. Projects. So I'll put this website, I put this link in the chat once we get rock and roll in here. We're still nailing down what our project is going to be. Last year we spent it on creating ebook with actual solutions out there that have numeric benefit and publicly available stuff. There's a lot of other good solutions out there also. So we're trying to figure out, okay, what are we going to work on besides doing webinars here in 2024? If you look at this, when you look at this website, you'll see a top six, I think it's six, one, two, three, four, five, six I can count. So please go in and share your comments with which one of these you think are valuable, most valuable, and something that you think you may be able to willing to work on also. So with that, Alicia, Jeff, anything else that I missed here? I think you got everything. There's a lot of great project options if people can weigh in on that. And of course our next meeting we're going to be hearing from Jeff. He's going to give us a little bit of a technical overview. Good deal. Okay, so we're looking forward to it. And Ned, I've seen, here's with the comments section in the bottom. I saw that you just posted something here recently here. So recently as in like in the last half an hour, 45 minutes. So thank you for that. So I'm going to stop share here. And now, Leanne, we're going to let you bring up your charts, come off of mute. And while we're doing this, as I said at the top of the session here, we're very happy to have Leanne Kemp, as I mentioned, she's a veteran, she's seen the ups and downs both, I'm sure personally, as well as along with Everledger here. Because I think I remember I got involved in 2017 in blockchain stuff. And I think you guys were around even then, Leanne, in 2017, if not then it was 2018, maybe even earlier. So she's seen a lot. And where she's going to spend her time today is talking a little bit about, okay, what's happening in financial visibility, because as you know, we have trade finance and supply chain, and those two come together here. And I, she has some interesting thoughts around what's happened with the G7, et cetera, et cetera. So with that, she's in here, she's talking to us from India, everything's going to work so smoothly. I'll let you share now, Leanne, take it over from here. If you want to say anything else more about yourself, as well as Everledger, and then we're off to the races. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, everyone. So hi, my name's Leanne Kemp. I'm the founder and CEO of Everledger. And I think you're right. Definitely pre 2018, pre 2017. In fact, this crazy idea of Everledger came about in 2014. So I guess there are certainly a lot of provenance driven supply chain traceability companies today. But in 2014, when the vision came to light for me, where we began to decouple the sort of ledger from the cryptocurrency and decided to put this into the world of transparency, it was a pretty early fledgling idea. But I also knew that there was a pretty big problem to solve, and specifically in the diamond industry. And so parts of our vision hold incredibly strong today, as it did in 2014. In fact, if anything, the problem spaces come even closer towards us with the rise of the recent sanctions and OFAC, and then of course, some of the concerns in financing in the diamond industry. And then on the backdrop of that, we still face the heightened concerns of lab growing diamonds, fraudulent certification in the in the programs and systems. And of course, we're here to answer all of those concerns of industry. So the entire purpose of Everledger sort of holds strong, as I said, our vision was to contribute greater transparency, trust and sustainability, as well as try and couple this with an amazing consumer experience for marketplaces where provenance matters most. And that vision holds strong in the diamond industry. But of course, so too, does it hold strong in many other industries. And as we see today in the textiles traceability space or the backdrop of circularity, where we're not just only thinking about where does something come from, we're also now applying provenance to where something might go to, you know, the future of waste. We're looking at in the mining industry, how do you repurpose tailings or tailings dams or waste into new value streams and provenance and traceability is at the core of all of those actions. So I just want to play just a 60 second video here that kind of frames is still stays true to exactly what we do. And hopefully the sound's going to work. Yes. And how do you turn that story into business? Welcome to the Everledger platform. Using blockchain and IoT technology, we shine a light on all the unique steps that make it a product, its origins, its journey, the reasons to love it. Everledger helps everyone to trust what they buy. Our secure platform unboxes the lifetime story of any product, from diamonds, to clothes, to wine bottles, and electric vehicle batteries, and anti-groceries. And protect your brand against counterfeiters. You can generate new demand like-minded suppliers and buyers, showcase your sustainability record, and make claimants with backed-up evidence about the reasons to love your product. And invite partners and customers to tap into your world, fully customized and both secure by blockchain technology and faster than ever. Make transparency a good story for your own business with the Everledger platform. Let me flip back to that page. Sorry. Ah, it doesn't work when you want it to. That's a live demonstration, of course. That's all right. Every object. Oh my goodness. Come on. Yeah, perfect. Okay. So building trust across this supply chain I think is critically important. And as we focused on Everledger at the heart of the diamond industry, the opportunities to be able to track items and verify their true identity along that supply chain stays true in the enablement of provenance in grading report validation, digital transformation of those reports, and then consumer engagement. So the conversation today is really focused in that one key market segment being the diamond industry itself. And the applications that are live and in market and have been now for pretty close to 10 years in fact, is driven by the requirements around compliance. Origin, legality, human rights, environmental performance. And of course the diamond industry points to a pretty characteristic history when we think about the blood diamond movie, Leonardo DiCaprio, the more recent rising of the Russia sanctions and Ukraine war. And so these things are still in the front mind of many consumers, both millennials of today and consumers of the past. The authenticity and authentication is brought about through digital identities. We've seen the rise and to some extent the fall of NFTs. And a lot of those applications sit true in our industry as well. Around supply chains, product claim and validation on post customer engagement is critical. And then data insights where we're driving that asset level tracking queries across the supply chain itself. And to bring the simplicity of that forward, we often see naming conventions where we're needing an entity level passport, moving into supply chains themselves and then material passports. A lot of this vision statement that I'm showing you today holds true now in policy as European Union has now published the requirements around digital product passports and arguably a digital product passport in 2014 was on the backdrop of people's minds, but not necessary on the front of their tongues. And today we've seen it enshrined in policy in various different industries. I just want to take you through this journey before I dig deep into the world of finance. And I think arguably Everledger has provided for traceability now across multiple supply chains. Our deepest and strongest has been in the diamonds, gemstones and jewelry industry, where as it stands today, there are tens of millions of gemstones that have been on the platform and that are effectively tracked from the source right the way through to the retail market and beyond in first and second time enablement with consumer markets. More recently in the last year, we also launched with the largest retailer globally. They're pretty well known in the US market, the holding group is Signet. Signet is five or six billion dollars in terms of revenue. So there are significant market hold. They utilize the backdrop of our technology to bring an entirely new collection to market and that collection was called Origin. It not only provided for the traceability of the diamonds, but it also went through the jewelry piece itself digging into the depths of SDGs and evidencing things like renewable energy, the use of water as also recycled metals and the evidentiary set of all of that data is held on the Everledger platform. I'm going to try and flick across to the live URL. Can you see the Ernst Jones logo in front of you? We can. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Great. So this is a live website. So anyone who's keen and watching and they fancy a four and a half thousand pound diamond ring for their loved one, then just click here. You can run through. This is a pretty standard sort of e-commerce website and the ease of implementation of this type of data actually comes through quite simply in integration with buttons or as we call it widgets, which is just div tabs that sort of drop into the e-commerce environment. You see that there are various different sort of finance options under which there are significant backdrops around smart contracts that will execute depending upon how the supply chain provisions and or provides for those goods under APRO services or consignment services. So not everything is a buy now in terms of the supply chain. There is often some triggers in terms of how that is financed through not just only the supply chain in B2B, but in this instance, a B2C under the trace origin, it'll pop a window and every single piece of this data has evidentiary sets that are coming off the Everledger environment and attempting this sits at around 16 vendors. So to be able to enable the delivery of a very simple diamond ring with one diamond in it takes about 16 vendors across the supply chain. So that's just not your supplier. That's your supplier supplier and your supplier supplier supplier across multiple parts of the world. This diamond is from Botswana where this is the exact rough image itself. So this isn't necessarily an image of just any diamond. It is the diamond that was mined on the 8th of the second last year. It then went through a cutting and polishing facility with this laser cut machine on the 21st of the third and then as it's then progressed itself across to the jewelry piece, it then of course has run through that process to ultimately provide for the ring that is now for sale in the store. So I go back to the presentation. Hopefully this will flick across. Where we stand today in the market is enabling this information at a depth to start thinking about the requirements of industry as it looks towards greater transparency on the backdrop of what is happening with the G7 sanctions. To enable the diamond traceability story isn't just tracking pieces of paper it's tracking rocks that come out of the ground and as you can see a rough diamond itself has been effectively extracted at about 13.47 parrots. It will then go through what we call a mapping process with high vision creativity machines that enables us to do what we call an inclusion plotting and think of inclusions as faults and every diamond has a fault and as you go through this process and program of works we're able to capture the fingerprinting of those inclusions which helps us to be able to effectively provide for some level of identity of the diamond but also as you can imagine a 13 carat stone is not necessarily just cut into one diamond so there are actually a mother and child a relationship between multiple stones that would come out of this diamond. So out of this 13.47 carat there were 364 inclusions or something that was wrong with it and out of that two diamonds were cut one was cut in five and one was cut in what we call 70 points. When people think about how do we enable traceability it is at this level that is going to start changing the way industry first commands data and to tell better stories but secondly it will help to drive that enablement of finance as we are starting to see now as a requirement in industry. As that stone progresses through and as I said before it's looking at both of those two stones that have been the best cut at 6.72 and 101 and then there's the optimized options that are offered to the effective retailer or the customer itself. So as you can see there are many permutations to both the planning of the diamond itself but the ultimate end goal of that diamond and as it's plotted through the back end this is kind of how the sausage is made you start to see the photo reel which is the photo reel of the end physical cut diamond looks very different in its finished form than what it does in its rough form and the plotting of all 3D interactive characteristics are also kept and of course the combination of all this data together enables us to be able to take a fingerprint level and enable that across the supply chain. So being able to connect the dots of the supply chain and go beyond storytelling is really where this starts and as we started to explain before what we've seen in the market is the sanctions and the sanctions have started to come. Where OFAC created new Russia-related secondary sanctions and there's an expert. Can you say what OFAC is just for some of the uninitiated? Yeah so OFAC is the official come in the exact name actually OFAC sorry the Office of Foreign Asset Control yeah the Office of Foreign Asset Control they are the effective overarching administrative body that decides for and on behalf of the US government and the coordinated countries whether there has been a requirement to effectively ban the transportation in the transportation of certain goods and or the financing of those goods and in the and in the positioning of Russia it's specifically related to the Ukraine-Russian war. Yeah and it does have some teeth that seem rural hung up a Volkswagen they were not able to import some cars recently to the United States because they had some banned parts or subject to OFAC controls so they had to sit on the dock. So it's real so go ahead Leigh Ann thanks. Yeah very much so and I think what we have seen is the increased sanctions that are kind of now sitting at a level that will have some impact around the industry some impact around finance and certainly when we look at a system like Everledger that predominantly from the front end of our storytelling helps to enable retailers to tell a better story for consumers to bring confidence into the market but what indeed sits behind the back end is everything you're seeing on the screen here the AML and KYC compliance the money laundering and the Know Your Customer repositories origin and provenance is a key indicator the statement of warranties compliance where this is a driven part of our industry around the Kimberley process where there is a statement of warranties around the rough being traded across borders the transaction level on business logic supply chain traceability and then running through into the back end around how can we enable clearing accounts not just only of stock but also integration into the into the SWIFT network and environment to understand the positioning of the OFAC sanctions and the power that it holds specifically around Russia. G7 countries came together with the EU commission to make a decision and the executive order was issued by the Biden administration on the 22nd of December last year. In some respects whenever Everledger began in 2014 we had a vision not that there would be a conflict between Russia and Ukraine but of course we have had sanctions invoked across the diamond industry previously with other countries and we knew it was just a matter of time that something else would come and there was a lack of available systems that could do that connection and certainly the industry is well pronounced when it comes to advanced machine vision technology or scanning technology because ultimately the way they're able to yield the greatest response from a diamond is to ensure that that technology is applied but that same technology and the same data that is used to extract the highest yield or highest value from a rough diamond is now being turned on its head as a way to enable the compliance registry to move forward. Russia is the number one global diamond producing country in the world and not many people sort of know that. There's a co-state owned entity called Alrosa and that is now being sanctioned including a number of oligarchs as well but given that Russia is the largest producer of rough diamonds in the world and that is now being sanctioned for the G7 countries. Predominantly those G7 countries represent the highest yield of consumer intake of diamonds. It's going to have a significant disruption or a significant departure of the supply chain. Botswana in Africa, Canada, Congo DRC, South Africa, Angola Zimbabwe, Namibia, everyone is there. Australia used to rank quite highly but of course our Argole mine closed in and around COVID period so you can see it's very Africa centric in terms of volume with the exception of Canada. The G7 timelines itself, when we start to compare the positioning around the rise of the EU battery directive, the European Union bought a battery directive out which stipulated the traceability of critical minerals and I do remember on the backdrop of that work in 2016 when the very first meeting was held at the World Economic Forum to imagine the global battery alliance and that enshrined timeline around traceability has given us right the way through to 2027 if not 2030 but this industry is moving significantly fast and in some respects it's ready to enable the ability to have the integration of traceability with an overarching OFAC sanction because the industry largely is consolidated it's also invested in traceability for the better part of the last 10 years and arguably this ban on diamond exports kicked in formally on the 1st of January at the end of next week 1st of March there's then a ban on Russian diamonds that are polished in third countries meaning that those diamonds that have been extracted from Russia but have been shipped to India where 90% of the world's diamonds are cut and polished cannot enter into a G7 country in the world so they are now looking at how do they enable that on the 1st of March and then as at the 1st of September there's an expansion of that ban to include both natural diamonds lab-grown diamonds jewelry and watches so it's a pretty big hammer that is coming down upon industry and I thought it was important to frame the background context of traceability because arguably this is going to have a significant impact not only on the diamond trade and the supply chain channels and the physical processing of goods but arguably it's also going to help bring about greater transparency in the system's level across the industry there are well pronounced incredibly mature enterprise level traceability solutions Everledger began in 2014 and we're probably the oldest in traceability but the youngest in the in the industry by far that disruptive startup that we are GIA is the Gemological Institute of America and they grade and certify about 80% of the world's diamonds and they're the pre-eminent force of good for the industry and they did set the standards of what we know around grading which is referred to quite simply as the four C's the color the cut the clarity Sarri is the prominent provider of scanning technology that enables those manufacturers to be able to plan and how to cut and then there's Tracer which is a program of works that is owned and was launched by De Beers De Beers being one of the larger producers of diamonds in the world and has the Botswana relationship held tightly across these platforms as I said before there's tens of millions multi tens of millions of diamonds that would be consolidated across these platforms with maturity all of which have been operating in the market we've been in the market since 2014 and the majority of these programs came about in around 2018 so there's quite a lot of maturity unlike other industries that have had recent surges of digital product passports for example critical minerals or electric vehicle batteries a number of those initiatives are still very young and embryonic whereas we do see that there's a lot of maturity in this space when it comes to the russia ascensions there's been a talk amongst the crowds that what is being introduced is a is a is a product level protocol not dissimilar to the swift protocol for banking how do we enable a way upon which governments have the ability to harmonize and bring compliance across the product level I always liken this to the KYC the know your customer the anti-money laundering is now moving and being married with KYO the know your object and the harmonization and the enablement of that will give stronger and richer compliance but the larger question that I've always had in my mind is is there a moment in time where there's a swift like protocol or integrating the KYO the know your object the know your diamond principles into the actual swift framework itself and this could offer a really promising approach to enable transparency and accountability in transactions involving physical objects like diamonds coupling that with payments for object level information and maintaining this immutable transaction record stakeholders can certainly uphold the ethical standards mitigate risks and foster sort of trust in the trading ecosystem so what we're seeing is a really interesting position in the market because not only have we got traceability that arguably is now moving to 10 years of maturity with tens of millions of diamonds we have the onset of the OFAC sanctions and Russia being the largest mining country in the world and what we're seeing on the backdrop of that are retailers consuming this data in a way to enable better storytelling but on the backdrop of this it's very common for diamond companies whether they be in Antwerp or Belgium to be refused bank accounts and the issue with that is when and this is an exact extraction from a bank that is financing the diamond industry the costs when exercising high-risk activities and you can see if you look down the screen at the second last line of diamond dealers where that is in in the the mix of next to professional football clubs is the problem of the highest risk activity where banks are not necessarily favourable towards but it's about 30 000 euros in terms of high-risk activities but the talk of the industry now is if it's traceable it's bankable that's effectively the call cry and it's not necessarily been driven by finance but arguably on the backdrop of the maturity of these solutions in market the appetite for better storytelling and more transparency to help consumers on the backdrop of g7 and as we are introducing OFAC sanctions and governments are looking to reach out to traceability platforms to cross validate data around the provenance story it is very clear that traceability is baked into the everyday of this industry and how do we now what is the motivation towards making it bankable and the motivation comes about from the reduction of risk which is very clear in this slide as well as the concentrated efforts in some of the countries in the world beyond the data that I just showed you before which was object level data yeah quick question here two slides back the swift and know your object kind of story that's something you're proposing is that you think this is the way to go this isn't something that's going on right now this is the way I took that I just want to make sure I understood that uh yeah so I think this is the this is the the thought the thought bubble of the moment right it's very clear in some of the in some of the public media announcements that the g7 have collectively described the protocol related to the sanctions as a swift like protocol for an object level traceability and I'm suggesting if there is a way to couple what we are already doing in the diamond industry with swift or with another parallel swift like protocol what could that actually mean in the transformation of industry right right okay good thank you now I understand what what you're saying here um so moving on of course we need to have transactional level data so it's not necessarily just about the object and when it does come to the diamond industry and specifically for trade documentations there are a number of different identification documents that are important and that are cross checked geographically in material of origin chain of custody whether it's a receiving party an invoice date etc etc and a number of these layers of information are then coupled with the physical object data itself there is already an overarching industry body that enables the issuance of level of membership and certification that is running across different types of audits and the combination of these together is enabling a more confident marketplace upon which new finances are coming into the space into industry as well as this contemplation event around can we couple ky o data with the swift protocol and what would that then potentially mean to stronger sanctions that would cover follow the money and follow the diamond when we do think about a chain of custody event across the supply chain many diamonds are certified or graded but that doesn't invoke a definition of chain of custody so you cannot have a traceability system without some element of a chain of custody event handling and when we think about the simplicity of this slide of course it's a lot more complicated than this but there is effectively five grades of chain of custody event handling if it's a grading report or a certification report and just an invoice that is still not sufficient enough to be able to say that there's a chain of custody event but to enable an invoice with parcels and lots and gradings where there are multiple parties at at play then it removes the partial so anything beyond level grade one to grade three if it's traceable it's bankable and this is parts of the definitions of industry that are starting to move towards having a more transparent supply chain to give confidence to consumers and a more invoke supply chain so that we can enable that if it's traceable it's bankable catch cry so integrating with financial accountability we definitely see that with the rise of the OFAC sanctions there is going to be stricter due diligence in the diamond transaction flow and stricter due diligence in the physical object itself so we will see not just only industry and governments transitioning from KYC the know your customer but also to KYC and KYO coupled together the integration of financial data across the supply chain into platforms like Everledger is starting to become an attractive proposition multiple traceability platforms will have to transform themselves beyond just what is the origin of the stone with mass financial integration automated compliance mechanisms innovation in financial products will come and the convergence for a more sustainable and ethical diamond trade is finally here so I think I can get to my nursing home and look back upon history and be proud of what we did in that short period of time I'm trying to get to the next slide but I think I'm either frozen or done so yeah I think I'll see if I'm done but I think that was the end of it okay oh no it's frozen that's okay didn't feel like quite the end but uh yeah yeah I've lost the I've lost the connection okay are there any questions anything we need to talk through you're still you're still talking with us so that that's good so we can go in I have two or three questions here I guess maybe the first one here if you could talk a little bit about the ups and downs of Everledger and what you've seen I thought you guys were dead to the world I'll call it out here and I'm glad you're not so you know maybe if you could say here's why this is good right that that will help a little bit and then after that if you could explain me a little bit about why Everledger since we're a hyperledger group you know why you're using that and then I have one more question about chain of custody yeah sure so maybe I'll start with the hyperledger question you know we've sat on the hyperledger framework since day one and I think there's been a lot of ups and downs in industry about is it private permissioned is it public permission less and NFTs and ICOs and all sorts of three letter words came flying at everyone across the space we maintained a pretty rigid view on the world and that is that within supply chains we're handling some of the most trade sensitive information that anyone could entrust us with and that that needs to be carefully managed and carefully maintained and for us the environment upon which we chose particularly with an industry like the diamond industry when arguably the real world system whether it's the kimberley process where 81 countries come together whether it's the positioning of certification is really already human system is driven by a federated consensus right there is a consensus human consensus mechanism that in this industry works with clarity and has stood the test of time in an industry as old as I shouldn't say it but it's all the prostitution probably not put that on the on the Twitter never heard that analogy usually and I don't know so when you start to sort of look at a human system that works why disrupt it with a protocol that arguably is not going to appreciate the sensitivities and the values of an industry so that's the first thing the second thing is to really enable the onboarding with such veracity as we did you cannot solve for provenance alone with just a blockchain it has to come together with a symphony of technology so ever letter as you saw so clearly we have machine vision capability AI capability there's a lot of below the watermarks technology that's combined to give us that fingerprinting or that instantiation of data and the combination of that is incredibly suitable to the environment with with with hyper ledger because we can actually drive an enterprise technology stack and we're not sort of held at ransom to tokenization values and what's happening in the crypto bro space in the ups and downs our entire industry is reliant upon us to bring stability we had a hiccup last year I'll go into that next but arguably up until that one point in time we were pretty much an asylum assassin in terms of how we approach the problem space and and brought stability to that part of the market when we look towards what's happening next I think sorry I'm in India it's very clear that governments are not going to entrust cross-border control mechanisms cross-border data importation documents to a permissionless public ledger it's just clearly not going to come through so an environment that does provide for federated consensus that sits in a private permission ledger is the enterprise choice of not just only governments but also the enterprise choice of industries like the diamond industry from an ever ledger perspective I mean I speak to the heart of what's happened I started this business with a very clear vision for what I the problem was that we wanted to contribute to solving I mean we didn't we haven't solved the problem but we're contributing to the solution and as a part of that journey I guess I'm a veteran not just only in the blockchain space but a veteran as well I'm over 50 so it's not my first rodeo and I've certainly started companies before and exited and seen the full colour of the day and ever ledger attracted some pretty impressive investors in its early stage and the and the heights of that ran its course in time and arguably it stood it stood strong and continues to stand strong at the time upon which we had to restructure the entity it did certainly wasn't completely liquidated we had to restructure the entity in an aggressive manner was off the backdrop of quite a concerning concerning a transaction event with an investor that wasn't staying strong to a contract that was bounded and as a part of that there was a decision to be made that we couldn't we couldn't see I-to-I on the future pathway given that I held the commanding shares still the largest shareholder of the company after the significance of raises that we had and control the board it was a decision that was made to run the company through a administration event that ended up looking at a liquidation event into two of the entities and then now we've persisted forward I own ever ledger 100% outright and that is now well behind us and the team has persisted through and customers have stayed and it was a moment in time that believe me I had to look in the mirror and say is this a vanity project am I doing this because I'm egotistically connected to my keyboard or there's something here but the reality is it was the customers that called and it was the key staff that you know kept this thing moving forward and it was interesting at the time because a number of calls came through and said oh no not you not ever ledger like if there's ones to go it shouldn't be what you're doing so yeah that we saw the light of day and now it's in the it's in the revision mirror for us which is nice good good thank you for sharing a Harvard case study of how to go through a up and down with a bad investor I can understand I can understand that hopefully there'll be big time stars here coming forward any other questions out there before I go into my other question yeah I just have a couple of tech questions tech related questions so so Leigh Ann on the fingerprinting use diamonds sounds like you're using some new AI vision tools to fingerprint a diamond because my question is how do you on that traceability how do you put your basis for tracing a diamond so it sounds to me great if I'm wrong that you're taking what is those things called inclusions that you're taking an image of the diamond and you're referring to inclusions I assume that's AI doing that and then you're are you creating an NFT then on that diamond to track it through all the way through it's cutting so that you can do that traceability from what's in the store all the way up to what was mined yeah look we've been really fortunate in the diamond industry because a lot of the technology that has been used whether it's spectrography readings or what have you is well pronounced technology and has been here for quite some time and also diamonds are laser inscribed so there's a microscopic laser inscription on the girdle or the crown of the stone and again that technology had been in industry for quite some time as well and it's the combination of those machines that are currently doing the scanning as I said before those machines have been connected for the pure purpose of manufacturers extracting the best economic yield from the cut of the diamond but no one had necessarily seen the use of that data as a way to connect the supply chain together and yes there is forms upon which I wouldn't call it AI it's machine vision as far as I'm concerned which is a discipline I guess of course of artificial intelligence that is used to map and to identify Cartesian coordinates and a number of different disciplines around how we can get that sort of fingerprinting together that's not the only technology that's used so there is DNA immersive liquids that are used in the emeralds traceability supply chain because emeralds are a softer gemstone than a diamond so you can't really immerse the diamond in a DNA liquid and do that traceability but you can do the same for an emerald or a ruby or a sapphire and geographically we're able to gemmologically tell where ruby comes from or an emerald comes from where it's very difficult gemmologically to tell if it if this diamond came from this particular kimberlite scene in Russia or in Australia so there's different ways across the supply chain that we use how we forensically identify the the object itself so it's not a here's one algo algorithm and it solves all problems across all gemstones and the same too with pearls I mean the ability to provide identification of pearls they're using hyperspectral and multi-spectral cameras to do unidentification of a pearl which of course then has machine vision algorithms that sit over the top of that so those data that you're you talk about are those how are those put into ever larger the actual data is it an NFT then that you yeah that's sorry I forgot that yeah the question you asked so um I was sure you were allowed to tell what that is underneath or not no no no I just forgot that that was a part of your question that's okay no I forgot it was a part of your question so yeah the um the data is effectively pushed together through a composable NFT that's privatised so it's not something that we list up on open sea and you buy a diamond and what have you um that's not necessarily our approach and I don't think it will ever be our approach we're not here to sell diamonds or a virtual diamond that's not the point of us the point of us is a heavy compliance mechanism in the back end we did deploy in the emerald space with gem fields and provenance proof which is one of our sister companies that runs on our tech stack um for um the rhinoceros uh national rhinoceros save the rhinoceros day a series of NFTs that were auctioned off um called chimbali and that was used as a charitable good in charitable giving exercise um I think we're on or around COVID you know when everyone was excited about NFTs and and pepe okay thanks hi leon I remember back in around 2017-18 you launched the chai wine vault I haven't seen anything recently around ever ledger and food and beverage traceability are you still working in that space or more focused on diamond battery etc yeah so the breakout for us in that space was we had a patent on the back end we still hold it in our rolling code sequence for anti tamper proof RFID so my background's been in 30 years in RFID technology and NFC technology so my intanguation background kicked in um so that deployment in the chai wine vault with the tamper proofing went across into nappa valley and then also actually into short batch gins and spirits um the same technology was then deployed into the swing tags and the embedded tags in alexander mcqueen which is textiles so it was less for us at that stage around the industry um deployment to say we're going to do wine traceability it was actually more in situ of the of the intelligent labelling was really the point of that exercise so that intelligent labelling resides in packaging inside of diamonds so the packaging that goes out to consumers as well as the secured packaging in the diamond supply chain in the B2B context in textiles and in spirits and wine so it's it's actually it's a it's a piece of hard work it was so exciting to read about it at the time and it's great to hear how that's that adaptation has gone across to a bunch of different industries thank you okay christos anupa net anything no it was a great presentation okay good uh i got uh leon a couple more questions for you one getting back to the chain of custody where's where's the biggest challenge for you of certifying or authenticating the data that's coming into the systems or into the chain whatever you want to call it so it sounds like there was a lot that's already there and what we've seen with other projects is if there's already sensor data or sensors in place or iot whatever you want to call it that tends to make it easier than to use blockchain and actually believe in the data so it sounds like there's some of that where's where's the biggest challenge within the diamond supply chain yeah so i think it's the beauty about the diamond supply chain is it's a highly secured chain of custody in any event you can't just put a diamond on a FedEx truck and hope that it gets you know catches up at the other end it's not going to go in a bill elating on the back of a boat next to a packet of lithium it's in secured transport and there's only really four major carriers in the world Brinks, Malca, Amit, Ferrari etc so in that respect that secured chain of custody event is not necessarily a challenge whereas in the textile space it is right you're trying to work out ginning and spinning on the back of a bullet car and you know in Madagascar there's no chance you'd know that that's not the case here right there's secured vans Brinks etc so there's good handoff documentation at every part of that external part of the supply chain the biggest issue to be really blunt with you is in refinery and metals traceability because it doesn't matter if you have DNA tracer if you've got machine vision capability once you molten that thing down to a lava soup there is nothing going to secure that or track that so you've then got to have a true secured chain of custody event where you're trusting you're trusting in god all others cash to a certain extent right that that provider is doing the right thing and there's no technology that persists through that at all full stop so that is the weakest link of any supply chain is when we're aligned upon human interactivity yeah well that's definitely true that was some of the early ones right as there's a person with a clipboard and saying check and then it got entered onto a blockchain later on and clearly that wasn't going to work at all not going to work not going to work coming back around my last question here on the financial aspect of it what do you think needs to be done so you're proposing or thinking that there's some integration with Swift or even some of the faster payment stuff that they're they're working on here what do you what what do you think needs to be done or what could trade finance professionals do to help facilitate some of the bridge between know your object and actually getting many bill lady and all that lot of fun stuff so that you can get financing and avoiding fraud I mean you know 80% of this industry to a certain extent has some level of consignment goods where if you've got custody of the diamond it's very different to owning it it's very different to having financial rights to it and the complexity of all that calls out for a perfect you know smart contracts domino effect layer where we have enough sufficient level of traceability data at an object level that can indeed trigger off these finance clauses and contracts and exchange of value it's always been a vision that a lot of people in trade finance particularly in the blockchain space of vision but you can't get there unless you've got true object level provenance and even the motivation of industry to tell better storytelling for consumers is still not giving you the compliance level data I can still tell a good story without having the complete inclusion mapping at the level but if we're bringing in OFAC sanctions in G7 we're thinking about it from that perspective with more rigidity in finance then it is actually quite a really fast moving and exciting time for industry to think about what happens next I think at the moment you can't necessarily just run trade finance without looking at the overarch of insurance right and so I think that has got to become coupled with any innovation in the space and so the question I can't answer you but I can leave you with a question and that is it's got to be coupled with how do you think about that insurance overlay with trade finance and there's something special in the secret of the source with that when you get to the table and have those two parties come together with KYO then you start to see something really interesting that turns the tide you know that's a good thought and I you can go back and look through some of our projects we're trying to get to that level of something here's where there could be value for the entire community of supply chain logistics trade finance professionals out there and if it can help to set some sort of vision or method to get there then we then we've done something valuable for the community there so good on that anything else from anybody else before we wrap up okay I'm seeing shaking heads I saw a newp he was in from India since he wasn't a presenter he was able to leave earlier but glad that he joined so for those of you watching on YouTube thanks for joining here and listening until the end please take a look at the project list and add your comments Leanne thank you very much for sharing uh both where you are right now as well as what happened in the past and how that kind of goes and so sounds like you got a lot of fun things that can happen in the future here and we're glad that you were able to share those with us here today so thanks for that everyone our next session is when are we Jeff the eighth eighth of March seventh of March seventh of March okay same same time same batch channel and uh Jeff will be sharing his little demo that he's put together using hyperledger fabric and NFTs and digital twins so look forward to that and with that enjoy the rest of your day or enjoy your evening if you're Leanne there you go okay bye everybody see you see you