 Let's put the pee-pee in without a condom. Let's have as much sex as we want, and then hoop-see when we have a baby. Let's kill it. All right, guys. Welcome back to the channel. If you're new, my name is Bobby Geis. Today we're gonna check out vegan lifting logic with his new video, is abortion vegan? Can vegans be pro-choice? We know vegans love to kill babies in the womb. Let's have a look. So the mix, but look, I'm gonna tell you, I don't want to make people think that I don't understand inconsistencies on the pro-choice side because look, there's a lot of people who are pro-choice and they're vegan. You know what I mean? Right? And it's like, you see? Look, good, I'm glad, okay? I'm glad I got the laugh out of that that I need, but it's like- The potential for life, it's okay to end the potential for life, but not your animals. Don't you dare touch those animals. And I'm like, yo, how does this happen? It happens because veganism is rooted in nihilism and atheism. Pro-choice is the next logical step. Logical. This is on both sides. It would be really fascinating to know how these animal rights activists who are against experimenting on animals for the benefit of humanity feel about the kind of research we were discussing earlier with unborn children. Oh, you know, Peta wouldn't care. Yeah. I really doubt they'd care at all. No, of course not. Hey, what is up, guys? So a very common right-wing talking point against vegans is that vegans are hypocrites because they're so vehemently against the suffering and death of animals, but aren't pro-life. Basically the idea- Not only are they hypocrites, which they are, but the ideology is based on Disney and doesn't make any sense. If you're an atheist, if you're a Darwinist, if a baby in the womb has no intrinsic value because- It is not sent in yet. Why do you care for eggs? Why do you care for shrimp? Why do you care even for animals? If you base your worldview on evolution, why does it matter? Why? There is no God, morals are relative, but don't eat the animals. Yeah, is that for an ethical vegan to be logically consistent within their own moral system, they ought to be pro-life and oppose the killing of unborn fetuses in the same way that they oppose the killing of animals. Honestly- Side note, this video was actually partially inspired by this meme that I've been sent from multiple people, which in my opinion fails on so many levels. The objective of the meme is to show that vegans are inconsistent for thinking that eating eggs is wrong because it quote-unquote kills a baby chicken. While simultaneously not thinking that an unborn fetus being aborted is quote-unquote killing a baby. I say this fails on so many levels because number one, the commercially sold eggs that vegans oppose eating aren't even fertilized. So I'm not even sure how a vegan could consider eating an unfertilized egg to be killing and eating a baby. And honestly, I've never even heard of a vegan who thinks that commercially sold eggs are fertilized. Number two, vegans oppose eating- Yeah, exactly. That's the point. Fertilization versus no fertilization. It's actually not fertilized, so it's not the same. Man, the point is, you don't wanna eat an egg because you don't wanna harm a life. In this case, a chicken's life. No matter if you're talking about an unfertilized egg that has no potential for further life, then you will talk about the male chicks that are slaughtered before they're one day old. Right, so ultimately, you imply that eating one egg will cause some sort of violence to a chicken. So people call you out and ask, why do you care about a chicken's life and not a human's life? That's it. Because of the exploitative process toward the laying hand, which obtaining eggs entails, as well as the fact that the egg industry involves writing up male baby chicks alive. Arrest my case. They are considered useless to the egg industry. All right, so this shooting meme aside, let's get into the actual meat of this video. I want to discuss three things. The first thing will just be how annoying it is to me when super conservative pro-life people respond to veganism. Super conservative pro-life people. How dare those people care about babies? With the clear diversionary tactic and two-quo-quee fallacy, where they just imply that vegans are hypocrites, not being pro-life, instead of actually responding to vegan argumentation. The second thing will be whether there are logically consistent... I love this picture here. It states everything you need to know about veganism. Veganism and abortion go hand in hand because it is an anti-human movement. ...ways in which a vegan can possess ethical vegan principles while remaining pro-choice to varying degrees. So vegan ethics are different from ethics? Does that mean that there are no universal ethics? If so, what do we base our ethics on? Hmm. ...while remaining pro-choice to varying degrees. And the third thing will just be a kind of brief summation about my animal rights activism from back in college, where I used to deliberately go to anti-abortion demonstrations and try to use anti-abortion activists' own ethical codes to convince them to go vegan, which is something I honestly just thought was fun. One thing that vegan activists seem not to understand is that so-called pro-life people, which is just a term, care about human life. That's it. That's where it starts. That's where it ends. But yet again, my question to you vegans is, if a unborn child has no intrinsic value, hehe, why should anybody care about not eating animals? And furthermore, why should you? If a baby doesn't matter, why does anything matter at all? Yet again, your atheistic worldview does not allow a moral origin, some sort of universal morals, universal ethics. And this is why essentially anything goes. So you're not really basing your life on your ideology. Your ideology essentially allows everything. There is no afterlife. There is no consequence. There is no yet again universal moral truth. Why do you care? You could go out, punch cows in the face, kill people, rape everybody. Why do you care? Where do your vegan ethics fit in Darwinism? They don't. We will just be looking at pro-choice positions vegans can take while remaining logically consistent within their morals. And second, I'm aware that the- You don't have to convince me. I know that the vegans are consistent within their own morals because they hate humans. Obviously, it is congruent with them. Pro-life pro-choice topic itself is an extremely nuanced one and that I definitely won't be able to address all possible pro-choice positions that are logically consistent with vegan principles. So if you are a pro-choice vegan and I don't touch on your views in this video, please let me know below and let me know what those views are. So yeah, I just wanna talk about how annoying this is, honestly, because right wing people are very, you know, big on personal responsibility. And then when veganism gets brought up, which traditionally is a topic related to holding people accountable for the suffering that they cause with their commodity purchases, they're just like, oh, well, you support abortion, so, you know, fuck you. All right, then let me give you another stance. I'm not gonna blame you on loving abortion. We all know you do, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate. I'm gonna take your worldview, your Davenistic worldview, and I'm gonna say on top of the food chain, there is no afterlife. There is no God that judges me. So why would I care? I love it. Meat, it is healthy, tastes delicious. I don't care for your cows. Fuck you, how much more? An appeal to hypocrisy and a refusal to engage with the actual arguments of veganism. But I just did. The Turning Point USA Club back at my university, and we were always like across from each other, like we were the Animal Rights Club, and then they were the Turning Point Club, which if you don't know, Turning Point is a very like right wing conservative kind of organization, and they would just be very pro-life. And whenever I would try to go over there to talk to them about animal rights, the first thing they'd bring up is abortion and pro-life and this claim that I'm a hypocrite for not fully being against abortion while advocating for animals. Super annoying and very bad faith. So that rant aside, let's now talk about logically consistent pro-choice positions which vegans can take. So when it comes to most vegans, valuing sentines is very important, and aborting non-sentient fetuses could be consistent with fighting for sentient animals, and therefore one can hold a vegan position in combination with a pro-choice position toward non-sentient fetuses. Being a dad myself, this truly hurts my soul, I have to admit, it is a peer to emotion. But seeing this embryo with his five fingers, his two eyes, his little ear here on the side, you see that this embryo already has all the potential to be a grown up human being. Everything is stored within it and the human soul is already formed. You are killing a baby. Don't get it twisted. No matter how much intellectualism you infuse here, yet again, you are killing a human baby just because you've been indoctrinated into believing that you need a certain brain size in order to be sentient and then it's absolute no go to kill that being. A pig is just as intelligent as a dog. Who cares? I don't like pigs. I love dogs. I hate cows. I'm gonna go out and kill all the cows. Who is stopping me? Why do you care? There is no moral baseline. You're talking about sentience. Why would I accept your premise of sentience? Why would I accept that as valuable? Where do you start? Where do you end? Do you want to tell me that an oyster is more sentient than embryo? It doesn't add up. On top of that, yes, I'm gonna be a plant rights activist. We know that plants are alive. Last week there was a new study conducted that showed that plants even scream when you try to hurt them. Happens to trees, happens to tomatoes, happens to cucumbers. So how can we know that there is no suffering? Yet again, question over question, but all of it doesn't matter. You have no moral baseline. You want to kill babies. Who cares about your position? Nobody. In fetuses, while remaining logically consistent within their own morals. That's all they care about. Logically consistent. If I base it on human rights, then we need animal rights. Your argumentation is circular. It doesn't go anywhere. This is probably the most common and logically consistent vegan pro-choice position I've seen in the vegan community. And that also is a convenient position to take when you consider the fact that most abortions occur well before a fetus begins to feel pain. This essentially means that a vegan who takes this position does not have pain. Oh man. Oh man. So pain is the argument now. What is this? Kindergarten? Let's take a hypothetical because vegans love hypotheticals. What if I give you a full body anesthesia? You're not gonna feel a thing. And even more than that, I'm gonna infuse you with certain drugs. So it feels absolutely amazing. Amazing! You're gonna get eaten by a cannibal. But again, it feels absolutely fantastic. You don't feel pain. Is this right? Or is it wrong? If it's wrong, why? A moral issue with the majority of abortions and instead a small minority of them. So clearly this vegan pro-choice position involves the distinction between sentient animals and non-sentient fetuses and brings right to the empirical question of when does a fetus bring... Veganism. Peek over embryo. Wow. A distinction between sentient animals and non-sentient fetuses and brings right to the empirical question of when does a fetus become sentient? Who cares? That is your line of arguing. It's all based on sentience. I'm going against it. I'm not saying it's based on sentience. It is based on the soul. What you're gonna do now? Much of this video going into the actual empirics of fetal sentience simply because my goal here is to investigate logically consistent pro-choice positions a vegan can take. But to be brief because I do find the topic of fetal sentience interesting. It is commonly thought that the cortex and intact thalamacortical tracts are necessary for pain experience within a fetus. Given that the cortex only becomes... Those are truly the children of the lie. Truly children of Satan. They're arguing about killing babies and using some sort of pseudo logic. Oh well, the neuro cortex. Who cares? You're killing babies. Functional and tracts only develop every 24 weeks. Many reports on fetal sentience rule out fetal pain until around the final trimester. However, here is an interesting paper contesting the idea. Great, so let's kill three month old babies. Yeah, that this neuroscience will work absolutely right. What a sad way to live your life, man. Rule out fetal pain before 24 weeks. If you want to read it, I'll have it linked in the description as well as some other papers on fetal sentience. So then there is my body... What a fantastic study on that note. So they really experimented on fetuses to see if they feel pain or not. But that is totally vegan. My choice, vegans. These vegans consider a relevant moral difference between the animals they aim to save from animal agriculture and a fetus to be that a fetus is within the body of a woman and that regardless, so long as the fetus is in the body of a woman, it should be the woman's choice as to what happens to the fetus. Technically, they can't hold this position and remain consistent on veganism, although they are committed to thinking that it is ethical to abort a sentient fetus a day before or even a second before a baby is due to come out of a woman's body because the fetus is technically still in the woman's body and therefore it should still be the woman's choice. So the next vegan pro choice... It should never be the woman's choice because it is not her body. If it would be her body, we wouldn't have that debate. This position is a more nuanced version of the my body, my choice vegan position. There are vegans who have told me that they consider it okay for a fetus to be killed while they still require the mother to live and have not achieved fetal viability, which is just defined as the ability of a fetus to survive outside of the uterus. Like I said before, this is kind of a variation of the my body, my choice position, except that it should no longer be the woman's choice once the fetus has achieved fetal viability and can survive outside of the womb. But the thing is that fetal viability exists as a function of biomedical and technological capacities, which are different in different parts of the world. Most people are so far gone that they need a study to tell them if it is good to kill babies or not. Stop it. Get some help. Fetal viability occurs at approximately 24 weeks of the gestational stage. This is not the case for other countries with significantly lower technological advancement. Because of this, one of the reductios of the specific vegan pro-choice position, the reductios, that depending on the technological advancement of the location you're currently in, killing a baby currently inside a mother may or may not be ethical. It is basically as if the technology available to you at a given time will determine whether or not aborting a fetus is ethical. So what killing a three month old baby is always ethical. Vegan ethical. Vegan pro-choice positions you can have. Again, I'm sure. He's so feminine. Haven't touched on every single one of them. So if there's- It explains why he's vegan. One thing you think is worth sharing, just comment it below. The fundamental point of this video is just that being vegan does not logically entail being fully pro-life. So the next time some right-wing conservative or even just a pro-lifer accuses you of being a hypocrite for being vegan and not fully pro-life, just send them this video. All right, so now I just want to- Yes, that will show them. We'll show him. On what I used to do back in university. When there were very common and frequent anti-abortion protests and you know, events at my school. I would get so excited for this because, you know- Because I'm just so excited to kill babies and talk about it? I need to just go over and kind of question them and see like, oh, you're so strongly against abortion but you still pay for innocent animals to be exploited and murdered on a daily basis. Plus all those animals are sentient while the fetuses you fight for who are aborted are mostly not sentient. And it's so interesting to see because these- Looking at him, I see his mother and I never met her. I have a very similar structure to vegan ones that includes showing all the really graphic stuff. Like they'll show all the graphic stuff related to, you know, fetuses. So when I just walk by, it almost feels like a vegan protest except obviously for- At least you realize that. So I used to go over there and I know that their reason for being there isn't to talk about veganism. So respectfully, I would just go over and talk to them about their cause and they'd question me on my position related to, you know, pro-life, pro-choice. And a lot of times I would just- He would sneak under the radar. Woo-hoo. Just kind of go with what they want just so I can get to the vegan talking point because ultimately that's all I really cared about in those moments. And I would say like, so are you vegan? And they'd be like, well, no. And then kind of make a face because they knew where I was going with this. And I'd be like, so what is your justification for, you know, paying for innocent animals to be murdered for taste pleasure? Innocent animals murdered for taste pleasure. Wrong, wrong, wrong. How do you determine that they're innocent? Based on what? How do you classify it as murder? Murder only happens when a human is killed and taste pleasure. By now, if you really looked into the science, then you must have found out that the human physiology requires animal foods in order to be perfectly healthy. With that, it is not just taste pleasure, but a necessity. I have much bigger reasons to get abortions than taste pleasure. And after I've established to them that there is no need to consume these products and that they're really just eating them. Again, he's building a strawman. All of those three things are false. For pleasure, I then established that we are now in a scenario. Dude, why are you projecting? Those people had sex for pleasure. Sex is only here in order to create babies. It is not for pleasure, believe it or not. I know nowadays with so much pornography in our culture, it is really hard to grasp. Hard to understand. What? Sex is for making babies? Wow. But it ultimately is. This is literally what it is meant for. Sex is for making babies. If you have sex for pleasure, you can have consequences. One consequence being, wow, having babies. So now as an adult, maybe you should deal with that. But that's not what you guys want. You don't want to be held accountable. Let's have all the pleasure in the world. Let's put the pee-pee in without a condom. Let's have as much sex as we want and then whoopsie. When we have a baby, let's kill it. I'm here fighting against women, trying to get an abortion for much more, you know, reasonable reasons. Reasonable reasons? Case closed. If it is a reasonable reason, then it must be right. Yet again, you're not taking any responsibility nor accountability. You simply have unprotected sex, now you have a baby. Deal with it, but you won't. You're gonna beg daddy government to kill your baby. Here are those reasons to taste pleasure and not to mention that the animals that they're killing for their taste pleasure are all sentient. Necessity, not taste pleasure, just as necessary as any animal in the wild eating other animals. All of those sentient animals eating each other. The evolutionary theory that you base your worldview on explains it quite simple. Top of the food chain gets to eat whatever you want. Whereas the women who are committing these abortions are committing these abortions toward mostly non-sentient beings. Nobody cares for your sentient argument. And most of the time, when the person is being intellectually honest, and we're coming from a more secular pro-life position is not the religion. From a more secular, because secularism is right. Based on what? It's a whole nother discussion. They would end up realizing at the end of the conversation that hey, maybe they should be vegan according to their pro-life values. All right guys, and this it for today's video long enough as it is, I'm gonna cut it off here. If you liked it, leave it a thumbs up. If you haven't subscribed already, guys, please do so. And if you want to support this channel, check out the links in the description box below. Thank you very much. As always, may God bless you all. Much love and peace.