 Professor Fadak suggested that I should talk little bit about Vegaian systems just to give you idea of a typical startup company and where I am somewhat bringing in different experience from Roshan and Kashyap is that now we have the incubation which is you know all the processes are well set and you know there is a screening for you know getting into the incubation there is a wait list for getting in and you know and you know but the problems are still same you know there is lot of the challenges are very significant. Another way I differ from their experiences is I am a faculty at IIT. So, some of the questions you know during informal discussions with the you know members here is you know how does it work you know while being I mean faculty and starting something and then there are some unique challenges which are there because you are a faculty I mean always feel that ok being a faculty is going to be easy compared to being student this thing but the problems are of different type. So, I will you know go through that but before that I will just quickly give you a overview and some details about Vegaian. So, this is a overview of Vegaian. So, I am the founder and I have been a faculty in electrical engineering department I joined IIT Bombay in 2000 right above these guys where you know starting their incubation. But the major influence that I had was you know in late 90s I was working in Bay Area you know after my PhD I was you know in the US working for few years and you know at that time it was a crazy the craziness which was in the late 90s I was in the and everybody was talking about startup everybody wanted to be a you know joining some startup or this or that and the you know luckily I came back before the bust this thing. But you know nevertheless all that you know the whole atmosphere was charged up and it rubbed on to me to some extent. So, I was also you know having the idea ok I am going to start something. So, I will go join IIT but then see what what do I want to do you know and you know I started my work I was in charge of communication lab we had certain you know we were looking at quality of service that means you know different types of applications going over your data network. How do you say for example, if you have voice application then voice is the application which is delay sensitive those who have you know heard you know satellite phones there is a echo etcetera that comes or you know you need to have certain bandwidth otherwise the quality would not be good and when you have video you know the bandwidth requirements are more etcetera. So, as you have different quality of you know or different applications requiring different quality going over a converged network the way you set up the paths the way you give the resources how do you allocate that turns out to be a non-trivial you know problem and we had some research work and then I filed for patents and eventually got you know international patents on that, but that led me to thinking that ok I should you know take it further you know start a company and actually commercialize it. So, not stop at a point where I am publishing some papers and among the peers they are discussing then you know fine it gets dropped you know or somebody else you know down the road may use it, but you know you are still far remote from it whereas, when I had come you know I had a industry you know experience etcetera. So, very much you know interested in making a real difference rather than producing something that goes in only as a paper or a theoretical contribution etcetera. So, that led me to you know starting you know to plan for the start up and Vega and vague is high speed and iron is routing these are so, we are in the high speed networking or routing space and you know we bring in something which is a unique in terms of our technology you know for which we have now secured IP rights. So, it is a powerful path optimization or network resource optimization technology that is there and you know and as as you know any startup does you when you do a market research you want to target opportunity which is large and again you know there are few tick marks when you approach a investor or when you are you know looking for getting incubation etcetera. You know the viability of the business depends on is the market opportunity large. Do you have customer traction or understanding? Do you have a product which is unique? Are you positioning it you know is there some validation in the way you are positioning? Do you have the team you know and then do you have the you know where without to survive that means do you have funding and you know, but all those tick marks and objective matrix should not be you know superseding the person behind it like you know said that the passion is the most important. So, see that you know if you come up with a set of criteria which have to be met for you to admit a given company into a incubation. Almost every company will have some way of I mean some exception or the other you know. So, you have to go beyond I mean it is good to have a you know rules or you know some policies to you know admit company, but nevertheless you have to finally realize that there are going to be exceptions and exceptions is a norm rather than you getting companies which follow the norms that you think are the ideal. So, that is one thing and when you look at us whatever successors or struggles that we have at, but we were exceptions on multiple you know points. So, it cannot be said that there is a one size fits all type of criteria that you can apply to the this thing. So, just to little bit tell about our product it is a you know it is a software product. Software product again has a big advantage that you know you do not need capital expenses etcetera, but then it has a disadvantage whatever money comes in you do not have capital expenses. It is mostly goes in algorithm which are with high because of 80 revolution. So, there are pluses and minuses means you know you if you have a manufacturing setup you can get take loan against it, but when you have a software or IT type companies pretty much you know either you get revenues from the paying customer or you are you know you have to be looking for funding till you are self-sufficient. So, those things have to be looked at whereas, when you go with companies which are in the traditional fields maybe you know you can you know capitalize some of the equipment etcetera and get loans against that. So, now looking at our team again one of the criteria's of our incubator was ok how strong is the team and somehow being IIT is faculty is kind of you know does the person know market does he have you know industry is he industry savvy you know all those question come up ignoring that you know because IIT faculty the tag is larger than the person. So, you are not looking at the person behind the tag that the person has industry experience person has industry context is that another problem is when 3 or 4 students start you think the team is 3 or 4 when IIT faculty starts with 2 or 3 students the team is of 1 you know you do not count you know and that is a you know that is a something that you have to keep in mind because somebody with 15 20 years experience then however way you know present the team members unless you get other guys with 15 20 years experience joining you it always looks very one-sided ok or my wife for example has extensive business you know background you know won't go into the detail, but again oh that is a husband wife don't count that. So, so what happens is there are flags that come about which are you know you have to look beyond in the sense that you know yes those flags are there the entrepreneur would have some way of you know overcoming that or giving the explanation how that is you know not really a handicap. Another thing is when you have a high-tech product startup invariably you know when you look at the you know technical experts they are going to give a mixed opinion because it becomes very difficult to know really is there a real need in the market for PLS which is the convergence of you know voice video data on to the you know single network is there really a need something which is you know optimizing that the performance etcetera is can some can a small company like this be able to penetrate one of the most difficult markets which is you know the bicycle is very long you know when you are selling you are not really you know selling to you know one or two people, but actually you know different groups get involved in the decision making and it's a enterprise level bicycle which is a you know very extensive and can a small company go through that. See there your IIT brand helps a lot because it holds a lot of doors when you are going to say a one of the biggest you know telecom operators there you use the brand, but nevertheless you know when you are doing some due diligence is there a market how difficult is the market to penetrate. So, when you have a high-tech product of this type the flags are be there in the review process that you know yes it is a difficult market yes there is lot of uncertainty, but then you have to look at the person or team who is you know putting that forward are they going to have person to go through to take it to the next level. So, so somewhere you know the processes and the the results have to show some flexibility and IIT Bombay has been very good at that they have all the processes, but then they have the way of you know actually having the discussions on what are the you know. So, if you are admitting a company what what could be the challenges and how are the team members looking to overcome those challenges. So, so you know coming back to the this thing what Roshan said it cannot be something very rigid it has to be somewhat flexible and subjective and you know just just to you know show you those tick marks this is you know I did not have enough time to you know kind of condense it down to small this thing, but what we figured out that this is a very large market you know the the convergence technology that we are building you know is widely adopted. So, our solution could fit in to a essentially a global market and when the market is large if you are you know even if you can make 2 percent or 3 percent of market share still it it has a potential to be a big company. So, one of the reasons one of the you know important factors that a funding agent be looking for is the market large enough for you to enter and is market you know already crowded with existing players. So, so essentially when the business plan is coming you want to actually evaluate if it is a emerging market and the market is large enough so that you know the the company can you know even if it makes some mistakes you know it has time to grow and potentially lead market. So, so that is you know without going into the details I would like to say that the market is estimated to be you know something you know the MPLS or what this convergence technology the services going over that is worth 200 billion dollars enterprise services that are going. So, it is a very large market whether it is voice whether it is you know enterprise clients that are there all those constitute a very large market and that is what vegan is addressing and you know to tell you about our product you know it is a you know in simple terms a SIM plus is our product it simplifies the LS this is the convergence technology that is there that is used universally in the core networks to have over a single version network. So, you know whether it is your wireless services whether it is your you know internet that is going there or whether it is your corporate telephony it all goes in a single network supported by MPLS technology and what we bring in is how do you simplify the operation management or bring in efficiency and enhancement in the performance for such a network and what our product does is it does you know first understand the network you are looking to address. So, this is in a nutshell what our company does this is the product that we have and now where we are at we have developed the product and we are currently testing it in a large telecom carrier and going through the you know the the trials and the you know procurement negotiations etcetera. So, the you know from the startup perspective having the product ready and there is a customer which is going through trials and then customer signing on the dotted line is the critical phase that is where the company has you know reached its first milestone many times even I made that mistake that you think the milestone is getting some funding etcetera that is not the milestone the first milestone is when the your product sells commercially again a product company is different from a services company services company you know the lead time before you start generating revenues is rather small you you have to demonstrate that you have a knowledge or domain expertise in a given area and then start looking for you know bidding for certain contracts etcetera and provide you know those services to your customers. So, your revenue start kicking in very fast if it is a services model another thing is then you are building things which are you know tailor made that given customer whereas, a products company the the idea is you are going out on a limb you you know you have a you know idea as what is required in a commercial world you are going ahead and building it until you build it to a level where you can start demoing at least the rudimentary capabilities of that you have a meaningful customer interaction. Although you would like to have customer interaction from day one it is very difficult to keep interest of the customer if you do not have anything beyond power points you can go through one or two meetings the customer potential customer would say yeah you know that sounds interesting this that come back when you have achieved a certain level of maturity ok. So, that where you know the services company can show you a contract very easily a products company has to take time building it to a level where the product is you know at least at a demoable level before the customers can start engaging in a meaningful manner ok. And that is the time you know you have to be looking for you know what is the the business value that is there you know. So, one of the things is with all these you know challenges that are there whether there is a need for such a product is there really a market there and is this company or is this team capable of actually breaking into that is a big question mark and those were raised when we you know tried to enter IIT incubator as well. And one of the good things is just because I am faculty I cannot bend rules the evaluation had those you know question marks and we had to address and luckily you know also. So, as such we started in November 2005, but we were given what is called pre incubation a small room to you know validate what we are doing till a proper incubation is given and finally, we were given proper incubation in April 2006. And one of the you know the you know a good you know successes in that period is we won the India you know the venture challenge which was sponsored by Draper Fisher-Jarvetsson a reputed VC firm in US and Thai. And this is again this is not a business plan competition there were only business startups which were you know having existing operations which were participating in it. So, most of the time you know many of the student business plan contest like Roshan pointed out not many entries are serious they are more ideas thrown at and you know certain due diligence whereas, this was you know unique in the sense that they were all existing businesses less than 5 year old and there we you know out of 125 startups with 3 rounds of you know screening and final you know about 10 finalists we finally won the entire event and that actually got us into the incubator because this was a true validation of our business value proposition which was validated by the industry experts reputed VCs from US who understood the you know the field as well as you know the existing entrepreneurs in India you know. So, that helped us you know get the incubation also winning that we won the 35 lakhs of seed funding from DFJ and Nadathur. So, that got us you know effectively a partner. So, many tick marks which were you know at the business which were you know brought out in the pre incubation state got automatically you know kind of answered through that and that is. So, what I would like to point out is yes the the rigor is very high especially when you have so many companies coming in you know you have to keep the you know the barriers high another thing is just because faculty is coming you should not be changing the rules of the game whether it is student team or faculty involved it has to be still same, but nevertheless you know the company or the team which is persistent in their efforts they can overcome that. So, give way of you know addressing some of the you know limitations that may have been brought out and this is the way we addressed and you know we came out with flying colors showing that yeah we deserve to be and you know we started our incubation at IIT Bombay and you know not just that you know later on we also won the Canon partners is another US VC firm. So, we won that Thai Canon partners entrepreneurial challenge as well again they were 100 plus startups that were there three rounds of elimination and you know jury was industry experts, Thai experts as well as some you know VCs from Canon partners and the person you see you know Pramil Basin was again a jury member he is a CEO of Genpact multibillion dollar company. So, idea is business value proposition has to be validated at certain level again you know we also over time got validation of our product and technology this is something that we received as a you know there was some innovation pioneers challenge which was conducted by Intel and DST government of India and again we had a innovative product and technology award there just last year we also received US patent on the technology. So, idea is you know well it takes time it takes long time for company to mature especially if it is a products company in a high tech you know space another thing is you know when I was starting off or in my first six months or a year even my good friends who knew lot about the fields that I was looking to address they had lot of questions in fact they were all saying it is not viable. So, the you know as a entrepreneur you realize that if you meet 20 people guaranteed that 19 percent would feel that this is not viable what you are proposing you are lucky to get one in those 20 who says yeah that is a good plan and this thing. So, you know so although you are going with you know in our case you know we go with you know blind you know some validation of the business plan etcetera, but it is very difficult to come out with a you know evaluation which says ah this is the best and you know you have I mean raising flags in a business plan is very easy addressing it takes lot of effort. So, you have to actually side with a entrepreneur who is going to be persistent in his or her efforts to address them over time you know and that is the way I would think the criteria should be I mean although the processes are needed you know, but the processes have to be very flexible. Another thing is you have to look at the unique you know conditions in India that it is very difficult to start a company get funding because we do not have good angel networks and coming to angel you know after DFJ which where the seed investors you know just last year we received funding from Rakesh Mathur. So, the common link with you know the fellow panelists and that is again a great you know achievement this thing because that shows that yeah we have been able to convince at least a couple of investors that we have a viable business plan, but finally, the validity of the business comes only when our revenue start ramping up. See at that point nobody can question the proof is right there whatever awards you win whatever you know investors you get the question mark is going to stay with you even if Kleiner Parkins are your investors the thing is when you are really starting to make money on the that means you are making profit or the first step is when you are making revenues that is the only time you have the first level of business validation. But that is that could be very long if you have a say travel portal or something you can be in business very quickly, but then the entry barriers are not there you know there will be you know potentially so many other competitors that can come in and then the big muscle power who can spend lot more in the brand building would be the winners rather than who has the best website. So, that means start up you know success there is really no easy guaranteed formula. If you pick up a business model which is seemingly easy then the competition can kill you very easily because then others will also feel that it is easy to enter and how do you distinguish from somebody else and if you pick up something which is you know hard to you know build and hard to demonstrate to somebody like I was having hard time how do I tell what is the product and what benefits does it bring. But finally, you are not convincing to general audience you are as long as you can convince to your customers that means in my case if I can go to telecom operators and tell them what value I bring that is where I you know I am succeeding as a business person. So, you have to start looking at the business plans from that perspective that every business is not going to be so easy that I have this pink umbrella that I can use as a parachute that anybody can you know appreciate it is not going to be like that. However, you know you start thinking make it you know simple yeah I made it simple making core networks efficient and effective yes it is a very simple thing anybody can appreciate that, but how do I do that you know that is where you know you have to go into lot more details. So, some plans require lot more details others may not you know I can always you know bring a business plan that I will make a matrimony portal or you know or a travel portal this that, but then the execution is difficult you know it is none of the businesses are easy if it was easy then why is nobody trying that and already have made money. So, that is the you know kind of you know message that I thought I will convey.