 Started now. All right, so our nose says he's in transit. He should he should be joining so Good morning, everyone. Good afternoon. Good evening wherever you are Happy new year to everyone Welcome to 2017 So up for our agenda today. We have a vote when we reach quorum Hopefully we reach quorum to on the cello proposal that Bawa had submitted we Try to bring it forward before the end of the year. We didn't have quorum Again, hopefully we will reach it today and if not, then I promise this time. I definitely will send an email. I Was supposed to do that last time Hi, Nick We have a draft document for the technical working group in China And so Bawa, I think we'll be presenting that assuming he's on. I think he's I think I saw him on Discussion Great. Thanks, Bawa. A discussion of the Core infrastructure initiative security badge. I Did some research before the holidays and so I can report back on where I think we are As far as that is concerned Todd will give us an update on the hack fests and Then we'll have a little bit of a discussion of monthly project updates and I'll explain what that's all about and And then I'd like to have a discussion of communications tools there's been a request for Gitter and a Few other things and I just want to sort of reset where we were as far as something to replace slack Because we don't have a paid account we can archive and so forth. So we'll have a little bit of a refresher discussion Just a reminder I had asked before the break that each working group you know based on discussion we had that was Started by Mick that really each group should have a charter and and so I proposed that everybody Who is leading a working group come forward with a draft charter before next week's call? And then just a reminder that there's an internship program and if you're interested I think Was it Todd were you the one that was driving this? We'll just yeah refresher that so yeah, any other agenda items that people have If not, then I suggest that what we do is defer the cello discussion until our no joins or or heart and and let's go with by a while let's discuss the technical working group in China Draft document for recruiting people. Yeah, thanks Chris and have a new year everyone and First act actually I saw I know has send an email he he would like to support the shallow proposal and About the TWGC work and thanks to the have from from brand from Chris and from all the links foundation guys we have successfully set up the group by calling now we have seven volunteer numbers and then we have successfully have held the meetup at Beijing on the Christmas day and We will also hold another meetup at a shenzhen at the end at weekend and Now currently we are drafting the working guy the line and hopefully Send it out before the next TSE and meeting as our working group documentation and Also, we have successfully make the official announcement and we have the kickoff meeting just as this week and We would like here more suggestion from the TSE. Thanks Okay, anybody have any questions for Bawa or Victor. I think Victor is on as well Yes, I'm here I'm just hoping we can approve the we can get though the dog for technical in group China get approved that As soon as possible That's all. I don't have questions for Bawa Okay Actually, Todd, could you paste the link in since we can't click on the Agenda so just again, you know, you know, I think it'd be fair to give the members a Little bit of time to review this but I'd appreciate if the TSE members could Take a look at the Charter proposal and And be prepared next week to approve it so they can move forward Any other questions comments? Okay We are now at quorum. I understand Todd right heart joint. I saw him. Yes in the type in the chat rather Yes, so we are a quorum And So I think then it's probably appropriate that we take up the the cello Approval vote so before the holidays. I had we had had a couple of Sessions where Bawa had presented the cello proposal There was a little bit of discussion about whether or not there was overlap with the the blockchain Explorer project and I think we've Convinced ourselves that you know while yes, there is a bit of a dashboard aspect to Cello there. They're not really quite the same as the intention of the blockchain Explorer, but the teams should Collaborate on you know aligning things and so forth We then tried to approve it, but we did not have quorum and so I had I was supposed to send something out over the holidays, but I didn't I apologize for that But I suggest that we take up a vote now on the cello proposal to Approve it as a new incubating project if If there's any questions concerns by members of the TSC You need a refresher or whatever on cello that I'm sure about that, you know, we've linked the proposal Link in the chat there, but we could always review that but I think we've been down this path a few times and Probably appropriate now that we have quorum that we actually drive it to a vote So unless there's any objections or any questions concerns remaining I suggest Todd that we take it to a vote. All right sounds good Just walking through the list bin bin you made yes. All right Chris Yep, Dan Yes, heart Yes, Mick Yes, Morali Sheehan Yes, and Tamash Yes, all right. Thank you that passes unanimously congratulations by Wa and What we can do is I'll have rye set you up with a A Garrett and github repository and so forth Okay, thanks. Thanks. I ran spot. Yep. Okay I have to go find my agenda again Okay, thank you very much everyone next up is the discussion of the core infrastructure initiative security badging and I had I had done a bit of research before the holidays And I actually sort of took the the CII security badge test or questionnaire if you will to see, you know where we You know where we would shake out and for the most part I think you know most of the Most of the items are you know sort of best practices and in fact I think most of the projects that we have I'm going here In hyper ledger are you know by and large following many of those practices? We do have to Set up, you know, I discussed this with Brian. We do have to have our security made maven on board it and we have to institute a formal process for Reporting of Vulnerabilities, you know privately reporting both vulnerabilities and then, you know an appropriate Response and escalation process for Remediating those vulnerabilities and and then you know announcing The patches and so forth so we do have to put that piece in place That's that's sort of missing but a lot of the other stuff is you know, do you have it in some sort of a? source code, you know versioning system Yada yada yada and and and many of this, you know the requirements. I think are Are well handled there's a couple of Items that I think that we could do that were not required, but we're you know strongly recommended and those involve doing security scans both from a code perspective as well as You know penetration testing and and various other aspects. I think that you know Certainly from a fabric perspective. I can attest that we are doing those things IBM is doing those things and what I've been exploring on my end in IBM is Can we share those should we share those? I think we should And and so I'm working internally to figure out how we Can either incorporate the process into our continuous integration Or you know, we you know would probably do the scans on the open source And then report back out There is there was some discussion about incorporating, you know actual code scanning into CI and But we need a tool for that the tools that I have available inside IBM or not something that I can share So we are going to nest this, you know if we do want to install something into CI You know into the Jenkins process that that can do code scanning where we're probably going to have to look at something That the project may have to purchase a license for there are You know open source code scanning capabilities, we could explore some of those as well, but It's likely that we'll want something a little bit more robust than that and maybe Brian and and Todd I don't know what other projects at the Linux Foundation are doing In that regard. I know that there's code scanning available for C++ That the kernel team uses But obviously that won't help anybody except the Aroha team currently Although I guess we could potentially use that for a role. So that's sort of where it stood. Like I said, most of it was motherhood and apple pie And I think that you know, we're You know, we have all the basics in place, you know, we have The source code management we have, you know, JIRA, we have review with Garrett and so forth We have a continuous integration Pipeline that does the testing and so forth. So I think we're in pretty good shape and Like I said, we just need to get the security maven on boarded and get that process in place so we can get our batch From at least from my perspective and like I said that the source code scanning isn't isn't an optional thing that you can do as part of your CI And and so we can explore How we how we proceed with that as we go forward Any questions Chris, Ram here. She's wondering does it cover actually security review from from system architecture and You know the underlying crypto As well, or was it mainly a code focused Review. It was mostly code. I don't recall an architectural component to it. There was a recommendation on On on dependencies certainly That I don't recall an architectural aspect to it now okay That seems like something that would be important for us in particular to make sure that we have some means of reviewing as well Mm-hmm. I think hot brought it up on the chat window saying, you know, do we need a security working group or Can we do this in an existing working group? You know, I think it makes sense to make sure so so we at least have a process where we we have the projects reviewed from, you know, are there You know some security issues with the with the cryptos and some are they susceptible to threats, right? So So I do think that one of the things that I think would be important would be And you know, it's a practice that I know that we do inside IBM is to get a full Enumeration of the dependencies and then tie that into, you know, certain advisories and various other Channels for getting reports of potential vulnerabilities and being able to quickly identify that we have a Dependency that has a vulnerability that needs to be remediated and so forth We probably are going to want to do something along those lines And you know, I don't know if it's a working group, I know that the security maven, you know, it's a high priority for Brian I don't know Todd if there's an update on where things stand from a hiring perspective, but Once that individual is Onboarded then I imagine that we would want to have some sort of I don't know if we want to call it a working group Or say but a security Response team that is both focused on you know helping to to helping the security maven to implement and affect the the necessary response and and reporting Mechanisms, but then also, you know implementing any tooling and whatnot that's necessary to Ensure that we are effectively So Chris we were talking in the architectural group yesterday about you know doing that the sort of charter discussion and trying to articulate exactly what what role That group has right because coming up with the architecture is clearly a very optimistic goal But what we wanted to do was to figure out how we could provide feedback to the different how we could be a useful resource and provide feedback to the various projects Would it make sense and again, I'm thinking more from the architectural review and Algorithmic review rather than from that, you know, did you make sure all your buffers were taken care of correctly, right? And all your dependencies Would it make sense to have It in some ways to empower the working groups to be a Kind of an almost independent review For the projects that we have inside the the organization right now You know could the architecture doc it could the architecture working group is it is it an appropriate role for the architecture working group to be It simultaneously working towards Kind of the idealistic architecture and at the same time providing deep review of the The various, you know, say fabric platform projects Does that make sense and if that's the case then it sort of implies it applies already well This is something that we should bring up as a topic of discussion when we talk about the the charters but my thinking around the value that the architecture working group in particular can bring to the table would be to help us Collectively the various projects that we have You know taking a look at you know from an architectural perspective of how these things actually work and How they're organized and so forth from an architectural perspective to help us figure out how we drive Potential consolidation how we can potentially You know evolve the various projects such that we drive Potentially increased interoperability capabilities You know that we align ourselves a little bit more closely where it's relevant You know I think to your point Mick, you know coming up with you know one architecture to rule the mall is It's a bit of a stretch But I do think that helping the various projects understand that if they were to you know Just inch themselves a little bit to the left over here And another one would go a little bit to the right that they could actually get much closer Aligned the you know we could potentially think about Having various Capabilities or components, you know shared amongst the different projects and so forth. I Think that's the real yeah This wasn't it was not attending this to be a discussion of the architecture Working group charter what I was trying to come up with Chris is a way that we can meet the missing need for Call it peer review, but a deep peer review of the architectures for the components that are being Provided right? So we can do security scans. You've got tools for doing that We can do dependency checking and all of that that doesn't mean that your algorithm is correct Who's verifying that the algorithms are correct and helping us to understand What the limitations are what circumstances it will it will work and not work in It would be nice to have you know And then we've talked about this was hot to it. It'd be nice to have a Interactive peer review group Right rather than dumping a paper out there and having people you know just blow it up or whatever Being able to have something that's an interactive group that provides that and for Our ability to address resiliency in The face of a tax given the kind of software we're building that peer review is critical And I needed an architectural and algorithmic level not at a did we include the right libraries and the secure versions Put some color on this I was we were discussing this yesterday. This is ripping by the way Put some color on this basically It is not one architecture to rule them all concept is basically on request From any project under incubation. We might The architecture working group might provide Some kind of a feedback to this it is not a prescriptive thing at all. It is more so that we can collect the thoughts from the main architects on the on the You know like main architect of a particular incubation or the main architects of a particular incubation and then Sit down and talk about it and maybe have some constructive session Or even a constructive Interaction about this that's one one thing the second thing is about the security review Security as you know, it's not just the architecture working groups concerned, but it's also like for example identities highly tied up with this so In those terms it makes sense to have some kind of a sub working group like Rom is suggesting or a committee or something like that I know that R3 for example has architecture working group and every other group is like a sub working group of the architecture working group and the way that that works is because You don't have this heavy organization a chair a meeting every two weeks and so on and so forth if if there is a Security committee or a sub working group, then they can take that to the side and you know Have more productive conversation more frequent interactions and come up with some something more beneficial regarding Security not just Be a code focused thing at all because between the penetration testing and a Overall architectural review is where the attacks are going to come from. I mean, it's a practical thing You know in terms of the security Implications Anyway, that's all I have to say about that Thank you Well Go ahead now. This is Leonard. I was just trying to say no, that's certainly true what Victor has just said I mean the architecture working group should always have all the site to all the different Components that collectively make up the whole in terms of any solution and their dependencies and therefore security is Overriding everything. So yes, you can have a security subgroup and clean it more as a component of the solution because security is prevalent everywhere And of utmost importance But certainly the architecture group should have oversight and therefore that's the lineage That's the linkages and the dependencies to ensure that everything is looked at as we've all just rightly said to ensure We have not just fit for purpose, but we will we maintain all the right Standards as they change as new ones become available to ensure that we have a very secure Solution at the end of this in terms of frameworks etc. So yes I certainly agree for the difference just said there and the gentleman beforehand So I I think it's quite similar to what we did last Summer right around a June time frame from fabric point of view. So we came up with the second iteration of the fabric architecture and we Spend I think four sessions review with the architecture group You know, I certainly at first we have to spend a lot of time on talking about the in in the details of the fabric architecture and spend some time To to educate the members of the group, but the feedback is quite Beneficial to the fabric. So I think that's what Nick is trying to get to is that the function of the architecture Working group is not only just coming to to come up with a consolidated architecture But it's there to help reviewing the architecture of the projects In the community and and and we we did that without knowing that you know, that's it The right way to do it But you know, we just tee that up to the architecture group and and drum and and members You know graciously taken that that pass To review the fabric architecture back then Yeah, so suddenly it looks like we're already having the architecture work group discussion as part of this So I think we absolutely need to To have the general architecture Review as part of what we do in the architecture work group and you know Looks like there's a lot of support for that And I'm glad to see that but with respect to the security review I'm not sure we and which is you know the topic at hand I'm not sure that we we've quite done that yet in the sense We covered the overall architecture and the decomposition and interfaces and so forth and that was You know a good two-way street in terms of informing what we do When we develop the ideal architectural framework as well as providing feedback to the fabric project, right, but the The thing that I'm not sure we have accomplished is a security review to see You know, whether there are Security holes where there are any threats that we have not Covered and and we probably need to either recruit or actually contract out or do have some method to have security audits and reviews done by The experts who have that capability, right? so, you know, I Don't know how we're going to incorporate that into our overall process It's a Process, right? It's an iterative process meaning it is not just done well once and everything is over Because for example, probably has made some significant changes since our since our initial discussion and You know, don't you think it's appropriate to revisit some of these things some of you know the current architecture and then Have another session, you know in other words It doesn't get it doesn't end with just one especially if there are significant change Yes Yes, I Agree with with that. I tried to do that last time that we are we have face-to-face there That's part of the update but certainly not enough time there We didn't have it an architectural Breakout session there to continue Regarding security. Yes, that's another thing that that we need to bring up to the community about from the fabric point of view We want to have some kind of Technical report on that To to be written Not not there yet We do have some expos internally trying to do that and to create that technical report So, you know once once we have that it's it would be would be good to bring that up to the community for the review Depending on you know how we want to do this if there's a security working group that would be great otherwise, I would start with I would bring up to the Architecture working group first and then we can go from there You know certainly identity is part of that as well and and You know Chris and and Bippin been asking me for a time to review that with the With the working group, but we have not been able to do that yet I think to what the end of January would be a good time for us As we completed, you know our coding at that point I think that's great because we could have we could take baby steps and have something called say a Security subgroup that reports directly or works very closely with the overall architecture working group And therefore it's the responsibility because time is of the essence the number of resources We have working on the different projects in different groups. It's very tight That is slim, but that focus on a security subgroup Which is closely tied to the architecture working group might might work because then it can look at all aspects of security Across all the incubation projects and come up with a pretty good standard as to how things move forward And I can go ahead. We can improve on that. So baby steps first We set something like this in place to see how it works and we learned from that And that's the whole purpose of our meeting. So no, that should be good Thanks so I Would say let me just say this. I think that you know as has been noted having a sort of a peer review function as being something that the architecture group can do and Can offer the various projects Under the hyper ledger umbrella is a good thing and as has been noted projects that have done this have Benefited from the feedback that they've received. I'm a little bit reluctant to turn it into some sort of a gate Only because You know again, we're this is an open-source initiative projects are roughly independent in terms of their Operations, you know, they may not get a badge right if they aren't, you know, doing all the CII security badge requirements, then they wouldn't get a badge. So it's not like we're going to do this once and all the projects get Done, you know, I think that each project is going to be responsible for Getting its own security batching and there's a function of what we can do from a you know from a hyper ledger Perspective that you know like I said like the security response piece You know that and potentially some some of the CI stuff that would have to be you know provided by the Linux Foundation itself But the projects are somewhat independent again I think it's a good thing to offer peer review capabilities and if teams You know projects want as the fabric is done and the sawtooth is done to bring their architecture Or their architectural proposals to the architectural working group and have them Discussed and reviewed and and you know feedback provided and so forth. I think is a good thing I think that the TSC function is more along the lines of saying look if you want to have you know You know the support and approval of the TSC and moving forward And so forth then you you need to be able, you know, you need to be this tall right to get on the ride And you know for the architecture working group to really Be establishing the set of criteria that they're looking for so are you you know, do you have security scans? Do you know those kinds of aspects? I think are important from an architectural perspective more so that I think then Having a work group that then has to do all the work Involved in that if that makes sense I do think that again the TSC The role of the TSC is to set the guidelines for how the projects would operate Not to be the ones that control the projects themselves. Does that make sense? Yeah, and in fact Chris none of us were proposing it as a gate Various other no, no, no authority advisory Right the the piece that's missing the piece that's missing for most of us right now who are building this is an Independent advisory or peer review group that can give us feedback that we can't that Positive constructive feedback that we can incorporate into use to modify and make our projects better This is a community You know, the community can provide through the expertise that it is an incredibly good and Strong intellectual community in this space Tapping into that expertise so that this feels like a community providing some services to a bunch of of Projects each one of which is trying to address a different set of requirements. That seems like something that this community could very Actively provide and would be an incredibly valuable resource for all of us I did and again like been I will say that having the opportunity to present Some early designs for some of the work that we were doing in sawtooth and getting feedback change the way that we did and and we need more of those positive constructive opportunities rather than the I mean we can all go out and put something on e-print or whatever it is and You know 99% of the feedback is just we hack and slash and not useful But having the architecture group here as a way for us to And I'm saying architecture working group, but I'm saying it but really identity The use is whatever we do for security and architecture all have tremendous benefit in providing a Community a positive constructive community feedback for all these projects that we're working on and trying to tap into that Seems like a good thing and yeah, no one is proposing gates or things like that. I mean that that this clearly not gonna work But taking advantage finding ways to leverage the expertise in this community seems like the best thing this group I Completely agree and so does my dogs Give them a treat and say hello intelligent dog you have that I'm hearing two things one is let's kind of maybe in general make better use of the working groups to to help bring new ideas and proposals through them for for the community feedback they provide and Then specifically with with the CII topic Would I guess be the notion of maybe running through some of the CII criteria? Within one of those working groups before a project self-certifies To put that to put that bad URL in there a project readmate Yeah, so on the latter topic Then it seems like on the CII badge requirement if it doesn't already have Security review from an architecture and crypto algorithms perspective Maybe what we should do is come up with With some kind of subgroup or independent group which is responsible for that and incorporate that into The requirement for getting a badge for any hyperlegia project there that that would be my thinking on that and And I agree with what Nick was saying earlier Chris and we're all on the same page We don't want this to be a gate, but we want to find some way of encouraging all the projects to kind of Move towards evolved towards the kind of ideal architectural framework We are coming up with right and we want to encourage nudge the nudge the projects to go in that direction and You know so far that has happened in an ad hoc informal way because Folks like Mick can win and others have been active participants In the architecture work group and that's what's made this an effective work group, right? But it's now the question is by offering the review option to the different projects and kind of You know encouraging them to participate actively in that sketch a word group can be kind of make that happen You know for all the other projects as well If we could take a step back for a second and look where we want to end up We've talked about doing architecture reviews algorithmic reviews things like that But with this being new technology do we need a team looking at? Potential vulnerabilities that don't you know, we don't know about yet versus buffer overflows things like that, you know, we're Exactly, you know, it's it's it's doing the security review to find out if there are vulnerabilities that are not addressed, right? So and so typically in and you know in academic setting when you Kind of publish a new proposal it gets peer reviewed by other security experts to see whether you know There are other threats, you know, there's a good explicit modeling And to identify vulnerabilities and so forth, right? so We have to find a way and I'm not sure we have all the expertise to do that within our existing community And so that's why you know it's a duty to you know We probably need to bring in a process and some expertise to make sure that we can do a good job at that Yeah, that is true, but I think within our own house here. We have the makings of I would say Some form some degree of strength where we can structure How we approach the projects in terms of architecture the dependencies and oversight so architecture must always have oversight over everything that eventually becomes a solution whether we're talking about Frameworks frameworks of some form of solution with standards included within that framework So this is a good start we put together and yes, we can remember that with additional external you might say expertise or oversight at some point in time But I think the way we headed and as several of you said in the past We have been moving that way and I think that's a good that's a good approach overall To have that level of oversight and ensure that security there is oversight at an architectural level to look at any gaps any threats Not just now, but future threats because things to change over time So we can look at things and see how we can address and the road map so you can put in place So no, this is very good discussion. Thank you. So so so I was on mute unfortunately, but Here's what I would suggest so so I think you know Mick and Ron what I'm I'm I think we're we're in agreement as to sort of Generally what we're trying to say here I think is part of the discussion to come up with a charter proposal That if we can factor in this notion of providing a peer review peer review, you know, if if there's an You know if if the if the team thinks that You know providing some sort of a carrot or stick is Appropriate to encourage the various projects to come forward and do an architecture review I suppose I'm kind of I'm more that if there's real value in it, they will come right And that it's more of a marketing thing to you know to get others to recognize the value and having the peer review I think this discussion alone has been helpful to to share and spread the word of you know with the feedback from both Mick and bin on the value of having gone through this this process Over the course of the past year I think formalizing that as a function that the architecture working group can provide is a good thing and so that I would encourage that and You know and so rather than sort of dwell on this any more I think we should defer it to the the charter discussions that will likely have over the course of the next few weeks So I do like I said just factor that into the charter and then that's let's pick it up from there I Guess just very quickly because we're running out of time here a bit Todd You want to just give us a quick update on the upcoming hack vests? Yep, certainly so for February We our events team did a lot of research and ended up landing on the same place that we were at last time in San Francisco So it's going to be in the Presidio again as well. Here's the registration link Into the chat window. I'll also send out an email after so that will be February 1st and 2nd It's directly after the coin desk construct conference happening the two days prior I will also send out a draft agenda. So if you have any topics that you want to see During that get those slotted in please from there We are tentatively looking at doing a hack fest in March in Shanghai In tandem with the hackathon that's going to be taking place there More details to come soon on that and then lastly, I think there was some discussion around potentially doing a hackfest in May in New York That is very tentative at this point but if there is interest or if any of those on the line have Venue space that we could use please get in touch with me and we will continue tracking on that over the coming weeks You know just as part of our goal to get these planned further as far out as possible And just taught a reminder from the Shanghai perspective. There's a hackathon That would be either before or after the tentative hack fest correct similar what happened in Amsterdam the hackathon is being I think sponsored by IBM and Wanda and maybe Huawei I think and And that's moving forward So there's an opportunity to you know Just as we did in the past to have some of the members of the the Hyperledger projects come participate either as Coaches or judges Or participants in the hackathon. I think would be a good opportunity I know I got a lot out of the the one in Amsterdam So we have a set in March yet or not I'm sorry, Ben. Do we have a date in March yet or not yet? It's still tentative. I I Believe I that there are dates for the hackathon I can try and get those and send them just so the people know Yeah, March 10th and 11th is the current sorry 11th and 12th is the current working Date for the hackathon and so the hack fest would be as close as possible to that there a few days before or after Okay Hi, and this is Victor. I want to know whether Wanda has sponsored the hack fest For I know I know they are working on the hack zone But I don't know if they are not going to take care of the hack fest or so If they are not working on this, we are happy to provide the place this and Our help to organize the hack zone Hack vest Okay, so Todd, I think you can follow up with Victor after the call. Yep, Victor. I'll send you an email right after this. Thank you Okay so Project updates I hinted at this before I sent a note I Think so one of the things that I have to do and I think Dan, you know gets roped into as well as Providing an update at the end of the month that says, you know, what happened in fabric or sawtooth and the TSC and so forth I can speak, you know to the To the TSC and to the fabric and I like I said, I usually have to reach out to Dan to provide some input from a Sawtooth perspective and now we have a Roja and potentially soon Corda And so it's it's getting a little bit out of hand. I cannot provide complete oversight of All the progress that was made in all the different projects that we have And so what I'm going to request is that the project The various project teams sawtooth fabric blockchain explorer Roja And now cello provide monthly updates on You know, what progress has been made? You know what major You know milestones were reached and so forth just something brief a paragraph Is more than sufficient? on Anything that they would like to share with the broader community and what this will do is This will go into a newsletter that the hyperledger Jessica of the hyperledger staff puts out On at the end of every month And so I'm going to request that I guess, you know, at least for now it would be Makoto and Dan and myself and Bawa and Who's explore probably part of? provide a monthly update and Again, they can share the load with others on their team, but That's going to be something that I'm I'm going to ask for and I think it I think it's I think again It's a good opportunity to sort of help to spread the word on the the work that you're doing and on the value and Benefits of working in this in this community And so unless there's any pushback on that, I hope there isn't Otherwise you're just going to have no there's not going to be anything about your project in the monthly update so Finally then there's the Communication tools discussion. So We had talked last year about various alternatives to slack You know, we tried was it Not confluence. What's the discourse? And remember what it was anyway, it doesn't matter And then that really didn't pan out effectively We obviously cannot afford a Paid account for slack. I think that's in the two to three hundred thousand dollars a year range. That's kind of ridiculous So we need an alternative. I Think Brian you had suggested rocket chat might be an alternative. It's a sort of a slack Alternative but you can host it locally and I think that Over the holidays, there was a bit of a ball dropped I asked Roy to sort of check back with the IT team on the prospects of hosting rocket chat From IT and what that would cost and so forth and bring that back To this group and then obviously to the board if it's going to cost us some money But I think that's really our best alternative at this point now somebody had made a request for Gitter Which is another slack Want to be that plugs into github The problem of course is that without a paid Subscription to that you're not going to get any archiving either You're just going to have sort of the same problem that we have with slack with 45. No, actually it's 4900 people now All trying to communicate in the same slack and you basically have two days worth of History before stuff falls off the edge of the world so Just a reminder to Brian and Todd and Ryan the team if we can Pick that ball up again and move forward on to get rocket chat hosted and so forth. That would be great Will do Chris IRC is definitely an option by law, but we would have to set up some sort of archiving for that as well, right so And publishing and so forth of the okay the logs, but It is an option. I mean definitely I mean tons of teams use it It's not as slick as Slack so to speak but it is it is an option but it's It would mean that we would have to have almost a project team working on Integrations and so forth And we don't have that currently Talk just just just a consideration. I have a thought really what sort of tubes are currently existing in some of our of corporations like IBM and Linux in terms of communication tools and possibly the ability to have free storage on a server somewhere within that and And because this is part of the Linus and foundation not leases Creavers some space and some process and technology to maintain communications To let and the data the documents go along with it. Yes. That's the thought I'm not sure what's available If that will fly and therefore we it would be almost at zero cost to That's that's basically Leonard that's basically the rocket chat You know it's a matter of hosting it and then providing the storage for the archives and history Thank you. Yeah So we're about end of job. Are there any other agenda items? Todd you want to put in a last pitch for the internship program reminder? Yeah, no real updates. It's something we're working on behind the scenes right now just to formulate So we hope to get this up early this year If you are interested in being a mentor for an intern just get in touch with me so we can track on that So that once we launch the program we have a bunch of people that we can connect with and In the minutes that go out I'll just include a link to the overall Linux Foundation internship program that exists across a variety of the projects that we host Just so folks can get a better sense of what that will look like Todd I suggested I'd like to help with the mentorship program However, could we put together a high-level list of responsibilities so that we're all aware of What it is about what it will entail and therefore the resources and the time the time effort that might need to be So to put into this just to give us a fair idea We'd be one back on the takings about Absolutely that that's exactly what we're developing right now Wonderful Okay, thanks everyone and again happy new year and look forward to a very productive and exciting 2017 thanks guys Thanks to all of you and make the whole year be better successful for all of us. Happy new year. Have a great day. Cheers everyone