 Thank you for joining us on Issues and Answers today, here on NTN, the National Television Network. And we are here with the Minister for Commerce, Business Development Manufacturing and Consumer Affairs, as well as co-operatives, the Honourable Emma Hippolyte, as well as the President of the St. Lucia Consumers Association, Dr. Tekler Fitz Lewis. We are going to discuss the proposed increase in the price of bread and I should I say bakery products, whatever, but let's leave it at bread. So we will begin with Minister Hippolyte. First of all, we understand that bread being a staple, well yes, bread being a staple, not only in Lucia, but around the world, what is the motivation for that decision? I mean a decision for the increase? Yes. Okay, it's not a motivation, what I need to, first let me thank you for having me and for having Dr. Lewis on the programme, I think it's extremely important that St. Lucia understand where we are and what we are doing. We are part of a world where inflation and cost of food items and all items have gone up, that was influenced by first COVID-19 and secondly by the war in Ukraine and Russia. So it impacts us that way. Now more specific to the question you have is why are we, why has government awarded an increase to the bakers for the price of controlled bread? That has been important and necessary because. And you have to explain controlled bread because most people see it as bread generally. Yes, controlled bread, we have the creole bread, what creole bread that you now pay 35 cents for, we propose an increase to 45 cents from January and the two pan loaves, we have the small pan loaves that used to be $3.60 is going to be $4.35 in January and the large pan loaves was $5.40 will now increase to $6.50 in January. So what has caused that increase, as I was saying the bakers last got an increase in the price of bread in 2008 and that is about 14 years ago. And all of us know that for 14 years the price, not only the price of flour but the price of electricity, the price of water, the other ingredients, the labor costs, everything else has increased. So it is extremely important that we be fair to the bakers as well. Because when people go into business, they go into business to make a profit. And I want to thank, take this moment to thank the bakers, they have been negotiating with my ministry and the government for a little while now and we felt that it was, we had reached a point where we needed to give them an increase. During that time, what has happened, and I have reported several times to the public that the government continue to subsidize flour. Okay, we'll talk about subsidization in a while. But let's go to Dr. Lewis, your association. Perhaps you can just tell us a little bit about your association as it relates to the, not just so much the increase but the consumers in St. Grisha. Thank you, Mr. Gasper. I also thank you for inviting me here for the discourse with yourself and honorable people here on the discussion this morning. The National Consumer Association was set up to ensure that consumers are not unfaith in the purchase of items, goods and services. We work collaboratively with the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, specifically the Consumer Affairs Division, to ensure that consumers are not unfaith. When we heard of the increase or the proposed increase for creole bread and controlled bread items, we did not have an issue with it because we knew for years now that the bakers association had been advocating for the increase in the price of bread. Another issue that we found fit in that the government cannot continue to subsidize flour. We understand through the Ministry of Consumer Affairs that the subsidy on flour cost the government five million dollars. And the five million dollars was from June, July this year to December to this month. Our interest in the proposed increase is that the bakers increase it according to the date issued by the government and that's from the first of January. So in 2023. So we are very mindful and we want consumers to be very mindful that the increase does not take effect before the agreed time but as a consumer association we do not have an issue with the increase because the last I can remember that we paid an increase in bread was 2004 and we're talking about 2008 and we're talking about 14 years ago. So the increases timely, the increase is questionable from a 45 cents creole bread you're only going to pay 45 cents so that's a 10 cents increase for the small pan loaf it's only 70 cents increase and for the big pan loaf it's a dollar and 10 cents increase. I have seen the exponential increases in bread that is not controlled like multigrain bread and brand, brand flour bread of course highly flavored bread as a consumer when you understand the issues that have got about the increase first COVID-19 and more recently and worse the war in Russia, the war between Russia and Ukraine we do understand the rationale but our business as the consumer association is to ensure one the bread is not increased before the agreed time and two that the bakers produce quality bread or persons who just drive around with their vans on a hustle do give the quality that they deserve. So if a creole bread should be three ounces don't give two and a half ounces or two ounces because you're on a hustle give three ounces. Yes and it's on the issue of quality before we talk subsidization minister that I want to emphasize the issue of quality because a lot of the times and I've heard the complaints myself that whatever the ingredients that they put in the bread is not sufficient or whatever whatever it is how does the ministry maintain that quality or monitor? Well you know we have inspectors assigned to the ministry through the consumer affairs department so they definitely have the responsibility to scout the various bakeries to know first the wheat and the supermarkets because some of the bakeries do bakers get a license before they operate? Yes so I'm not sure if it's all because you know persons open bakery in all parts of the various communities so I am not certain to say that every person who has a bakery has a license because what we are trying to do with the help of the association is to try to get all the members all bakers together especially now I think we have increased the database especially now that they have to buy the flour and at a subsidizer we start getting information as to where they are so maybe that's one of the areas you'll have to work with the bakers association on how we improve the quality the training for the for the members I know the larger bakeries are focused on that because at the various meetings that we've had we do talk about the quality of the bakers that they have to employ the the workers that they have to employ so I know it is an issue for them and we've had conversation about whether there is room to train young people more persons in the art of baking and so on so it's an area that requires a bit of work between our government the Ministry of Health the Central Bureau of Standards and the association to see the training that is required and maybe T Veto one of those groups. Okay now let's talk subsidization how much does the government subsidize bread? Oh it's I was given the figures the the figure I have here from July to December we subsidize flour to about half of five million dollars. Poor Anum? That's that's that's this time around. So what what I don't have is the comparative figures I don't want to say because before that there was subsidy but the price of flour was a lot less the bag of flour from the last contract we had the previous contract was 99 dollars and we sell to the beakers at 50 dollars in June for example after negotiations we sold to the beakers at 35 dollars because we knew things were difficult so because got flour for the month of June at 25 dollars from July the bag of flour rose to 144 dollars 144 and during that period we sold to the beakers at 50 dollars 50 dollars so government was was paying on 84 dollars on every bag of flour government was subsidizing so that is why you have this high tax something like nearly 70 percent yeah five million dollars so we had to do that to contain the cost of flour so we have negotiated I believe we have negotiated a new rate with them come in January and that is why we have said government is still subsidizing it but at a less extent but that is why we had to to try to strike a balance to see government will continue some some level of subsidy but the beakers also needed an increase so that to protect the viability of their businesses because the issue was if they did not get an increase some of them would be closing down but let me ask you this is Carrie come taking a collective approach to say and purchase of flour because we don't produce that in the Caribbean the wheat doesn't come from us I don't know we don't have a collective approach in terms of purchasing I know for example in the OECS we purchase flour from St. Vincent's and also we have our own Caribbean grain as producing flour up in Viewfort so we have at least at least two suppliers at one time I think we used to also get some items from Grenada so but we do not have a Caribbean approach to the purchase because you see because it's different companies it's private sector so they would have to be coming together on their own especially importing the wheat because they produce in the flour but they have to import the wheat I say so because I know that there in the purchase of pharmaceuticals the OECS has kind of connected yeah but yes if the OECS you're right we have that arrangement where we call we we purchase and then the different governments we so they we benefit from the the the fact that we're producing mass mass massages yeah all right must have seen as you see as you have too many hats too many hats too many hats but I'm president Lewis first nice title president Lewis as president of the consumer association is there any any what's the the kind of education that that the consumer the consumer association is probably considering in in light of those kinds of developments okay the consumer association every two months we have a general meeting with our members and what we do is bring in a speaker a guest speaker who would speak on different issues that affects consumers so at our next general meeting in January we will bring in us an invited guest from the because association and also from the consumer affairs division to have this course on issues like increase in bread not that they have a problem but they said education is power so if we educate our members and they understand those who have the information can share it with those that are less informed because that's our information spreads so we do have those discourse every two months where we any issue that will affect consumers or at least the members within the association we would bring in a guest speaker to speak on it beautiful well we'll take a break right now we will return in a moment as we continue to discuss the issue of the increase the proposed increase in the price of bread which should take effect in January 2023 we'll be right back I noticed that you built your retaining wall on my property you'll have to give me my land back or compensate me for that my contractor isn't dumb I trust that he will not build anything on your property where is your proof let's go to court this situation does not require you to go to court looks like we have to go through mediation here mediation is a way people resolve conflicts like this someone a third party comes to speak to both parties this person is called the mediator the mediator is impartial he or she makes sure that communication between both parties is effective and efficient so the mediator is a judge no the mediator is not a judge mediators unlike judges do not decide cases or impose settlements let me get a mediator to handle this retaining wall and that kitchen yes your kitchen also falls on my land let me call the mediator welcome to issues and answers one more time we discussing the proposed increase in in the price of bread come January 2023 and I'm here with the honorable minister for commerce the honorable Emma Hippolyte as well as the president of the St. Lucia consumers Association Dr. Tekler Fitz Lewis who are assisting in that discussion and and really enlightening St Lucia on all of the aspects of of bread and increase and all of the things that we need to know what we can probably focus at this time is let us look at the the we spoke quality a while ago the quality of bread and but we have not spoken enough about how well is that quality going to be monitored who wants to take it minister you know we have within the ministry of commerce we have our St Lucia bureau standards and they are responsible for setting standards for the country so they have a role to play in terms of monitoring but our foot soldier on the ground our inspectors from the consumer affairs department and they would have they have the responsibility to visit not only the the bakeries but also the supermarkets to look at the bread that's there to ensure that we have the right to wait because for example there is a wait for example the the Creole bread supposed to have three ounces so periodically they should be weighing that to ensure that the consumer is actually getting the three ounces so it is a big issue for us especially now if the price increases and so on we've spoken to the Association and we are hoping that persons who comply the beakers would ensure that they give the consumer the right to wait and a good quality of bread right a good quality and I must maybe use that moment to say that my beakers what I have seen in so far we have some good quality bread so I want to you know when you go into some of the supermarkets and castles you have some good quality bread I mean not only so far I remember going through a little shop way up by Ravino quality bread you know inviting us to go down you have the lady on the highway and you thought you had good quality bread yeah and so far this is good quality bread well good quality all over St. Lucius and the place that in the valley comes to mind that the people make a lot of a lot a lot of bread but I am still concerned about the quality and the monitoring because there are so many fly-by-night beakers who just come up on you spoke of those monitoring in the in the supermarket but I'm talking about those people on the vans every night pump pump pump all over the place yes it's new but I think it all came about as well I think all intensified during COVID personal looking at ways to start the business and some of them started making bread but I know even from basically anybody working in a bakery supposed to have a health car so you start from there you have to have the workers need to visit the doctor they need to get a health card and within the various communities I know that the Ministry of Health has an what you call a department for the environment and environmental yes and those persons supposed to be also going around and seeing that these places clean proper hygiene and everything so but what I think is required based on our conversation is maybe a little sit down with the Ministry of Health Consumers Association the Ministry of Commerce the beakers Association and to see how best and the Bureau of Standards see the protocol see the standards and see how best that the beakers comply with that from the Association standpoint yes I support what Minister Hippolyte said it is important that they are gatekeepers to these new spring-out businesses I personally do not have a problem with persons on the hustle as Minister said a lot of these little industries the little van bread industry started during COVID it's a good initiative in some areas it supports small communities by bringing bread to persons doorsteps but they have to be a monitoring what quality bread do we get where do those persons make the bread do they break the bread some way that is aesthetic these are very important conversations to have and I believe they need to be some dialogue with the environmental health departments do we all know of this little van van bread beakers is the association is the beakers association aware that they exist because they are competitors as well does the environmental health division do any monitoring to ensure that they have health cards and the place is as consumers we want to know these questions another thing some consumers are complaining about buying bread that had like rock by the next day you buy a bread today Monday morning and by tomorrow morning you cannot give it to your child it is so hard you cannot bite it what ingredients do they use do they follow the normal bread making protocol I mean now yes they all need training but the greatest university is Google is YouTube do persons use these mediums to at least better their skills if they are unable to go to NSDC or the TVET training which is available all over St. Lucia and I find now under the new administration TVET is more accessible to everybody and all and sundry and they have gone the extra mile in ensuring that different sectors that TVET never had any CVQ and VQ for is now available so as consumers we want to ensure that these things happen that these bread makers really make bread under aesthetic conditions and they give you value for money so if the government is going to say okay we will allow you to sell your bread at 45 cents your quail bread but you need to give free ounces do not give us two ounces give us three and ensure that the bread is something that we can use but we also want to encourage our consumers that they too can find subsidies for bread go back to porridge making as a child I grew up mainly eating porridge bread was not a staple every day for breakfast you know so my parents would grate plantain and make plantain porridge sweet potato cassava they were very creative we have to get creative eat what we grow and grow what we eat because there are some persons for them raising the bread from 45 cents to 45 cents that's cheap they could have raised it higher for some persons they see it as a strain 10 cents on every bread if they have to buy 10 bread for a family is a dollar but they too have to get creative buy you buy a packet of flour in the supermarket for two dollars and something sense make rose bakes make bakes find ways to subsidize you know you can make zucchini bread banana bread zucchini bread yes I mean a lot of people grow zucchini a lot of people have bananas around their home we have to start getting creative with what we have most times we do not get creative and we purchase things and complain about the price of goods so we have to start that creativity in Senutra I mean COVID has taught us a lot of lessons minister I know the prime minister has made that very call do you want to add to that yes there's no doubt about that you know you know some persons have challenges especially persons who are diabetic have actual challenges consuming bread all the time so you need alternatives we need to guide them on the alternatives for example if I have to what I mean to pray it's easier for me to pray and at home in castries in terms of what I consume when I'm at home in souffle I have a friend so I have my one pot very early in the morning when I live at eight or nine so then I can skip my lunch you know it's and the one pot is really my my green fig and my fish so when I move with that I can move for the day nourish nourish for the entire day for the entire day you know you have to take you know because you cannot stop but if you do not have the time that is where the bread comes in the fastest thing is the fastest thing to pull so you have to plan it you need to ensure that we have the help in focus we need to ensure especially where we have kids we need to change the test bus we need to change this bus so we need to focus on what we have been in the home what you have been in the school what you have been in the lunch kit so it's a lot of work to be done Ministry of Health Ministry of Agriculture Ministry of Commerce must come together in parent teachers Association the nutritionist in the schools we need to come together to speak as a country as to how we remain healthy and the whole issue of food security we need to put it on the table and have a serious conversation in fact I thought I was just crossing my mind while you're speaking was the you having the portfolio of business development yes and then in line with what Dr. Lewis said about doing those creative things that can be a nice business a local business for a lot of our people so for example we've had training into the young ladies how to do a couple flower potato flower we are now training more and more but in order for them to have that as an industry then you have more growing you have to plant more mackaboo so that's what I'm saying so you need to speak about agriculture you need yes so we need to be together we yeah well any final words they've come to the end of it well again I want to take the moment to thank the because association and for the patients and for working with government thus far I want to thank the consul and congratulate Dr. Lewis as a new president and to encourage persons to join the consumers association because you need to have a voice I want to do that and I want to take this moment to thank to wish to thank my staff as well at the ministry and the various agencies sent to show bureau standards exports and Lucia the free zone in view for the ministry of commerce or the department to thank them for their support during the year to thank them for the service because right now there for example our small business unit is all out on the ground bringing government closer to the people so I want to really thank them for the sacrifice and for the passion that they have displayed and I want to take this moment to wish everybody Merry Christmas Happy New Year and stay safe 10 seconds for you yes I would like to thank you Mr. Gasper and honorable people it for the opportunity to be here representing the consumers I would like to encourage the general public to join the consumers association with an increased membership we have a stronger voice in ensuring that our stakeholders produce better quality and sellers goods and services that are applicable and very important for our well-being have a merry Christmas and a joyous new year thank you very much ladies honorable minister I'm president Lewis I'll call you by that name deliberately and for a very interesting discussion I think we are a lot more enlightened now Saint Lucia thank you so much and we do take the opportunity to wish you all the best for the season and do hope that you will stay safe and use all the knowledge and information that you've gathered in this program to make your families yourself your home and Saint Lucia a much better place thank you