 Good morning and welcome to Moments with Melinda. I am your host, Melinda Moulton, and today I have Kathy Elkind with me. Hi Kathy, how are you? Hi Melinda, I'm wonderful. I'm very excited to be here and it's snowing out. It is snowing and you are quite the lover of the snow over there in the valley. Well, let me tell my viewers a little bit about you. Kathy Elkind is a woman of many talents. She is a nutrition in mind and body coach, educator, writer, lecturer, and she is a long distance walker. Her new book, To Walk It, is To See It, is her first memoir and has just been released by She Writes Press and is available at local bookstores and online. So Kathy, let's start by talking a little bit about your childhood growing up. Share a little bit about where you've come from and your childhood and who was your greatest inspiration? Let's see, I grew up in Massachusetts in a very outdoorsy family. So I've always hiked and walked and been outdoors a lot. My, I had dyslexia growing up or I still have dyslexia. That's part of my brain, the way it's wired. So I struggled learning to read and my mother was amazing. She read to me and helped me through all of my education pretty much. And then my father also inspired me cause he loved the outdoors and led us on many expeditions. It's beautiful. Now I read that you took up cooking at an early age because as you said, my mother did not have an interest in good food. Now talk to us about that because I think many of us who grew up in families where food was not always about health but convenience and certainly I was raised on TV dinners and tuna fish and mushroom soup. And so talk to us a little bit about that about how you got into cooking at a young age. Let's see, even we lived in a neighborhood where across the street there was a family that the mother was I think nine kids and the mom did all the cooking and she was a great cook and she made like spaghetti sauce which back then was new and different. My mother never cooks with me until and this woman taught me how to make spaghetti sauce and that was sort of my friend. She taught me how to make devil dogs and so she taught me how to cook and I did always love food and I still love food. I'm a foodie. So I would just get inspiration from other people and I ended up cooking in the summer times for summertime jobs and things like that too. So you the cook for your family? Did you step in and? Yeah, I did. I mean, my mother still cooked. I didn't always have time in high school and things like that, but I definitely cooked in special occasions and we all love to cook now. Both my kids love to cook and so cooking is a big part of our family. Well, you were a personal cook. You were a personal cook for family in Cape Cod during the summers and then you graduated from St. Lawrence with a double major in environmental studies and geology. Now what drew you to studying the environment and geology? I definitely grew again, my father was on like the board of directors of Massachusetts Audubon Society. So and we were in the, when was the first Earth Day? I don't remember the exact date, but we were in the Charles River pulling up, cleaning up the river. And so the environment was always very important to me and so I wanted to major in it. Back then you had to pick another study and I picked geology mostly because I was more interested in the mountains and that kind of thing. But again, the dyslexia made it hard for me even to find environmental studies jobs because you still have to do so much writing and reading. At that point, my reading was okay, but the writing was not easy and so I didn't ever, I don't know, I was an environmental educator just for one summer but I didn't actually end up pursuing it. But it's always been there. So he's been there, well, certainly when we were climbing the mountains and I wanna share with you that Rick has dyslexia and of course he's quite a bit older than you. So he wasn't diagnosed with it until later on and he really struggled with it and I have, it's passed on to my children and my grandchildren and they're brilliant. I mean, they're brilliant human beings and now they're included in the neurodiverse category which is so special but Rick has on his email that he explains that he's dyslexic and so that people know. Yeah, so someday you should sit down with him over a cup of coffee or something and chat about it. Now you spent a time out west running a bakery in Bend, Oregon and then you returned to get your masters of education in your teaching certificate at Leslie University. You then became an elementary school teacher and you taught for five years. You wanna talk a little bit about that period of time in your life when you were teaching kids? Yeah, when I was out west I was still figuring out what I wanted to do. I had finished, I knew I didn't wanna keep baking I had done my ski bombing and it was wonderful and freeing but I missed the East Coast and I missed my family so I came home and I had volunteered actually out west in the school system and I hadn't always loved kids and I connect with the kids that struggle to read and things like that. And so I applied to graduate school and got in and Leslie was the perfect place for me and I loved teaching second grade, I really did. But then when I taught for yeah, taught for five years and then when I was pregnant with my second child I decided to stay home and be an at-home mom for a while. But for you, now you took classes on nutrition from Hale-Sophia Schatz, the author of the book if the Buddha came to dinner and you started the alkyne nourishment teaching cleansing classes. You then trained to be an eating psychology coach and a teacher of mindful self-compassion. I mean, you're amazing, you are a Renaissance woman. I so admire you. And then you taught for 10 years. Talk to us about this period in your life and what was the driving force for you to move into this deep realm of mind, body and spirit healing work and teaching? Well, it still circles back to dyslexia. So in elementary school, after school was hard school was I felt shame. I was different than the other kids and especially girls, reading is such a big part of a girl's growing up and boys too. But for me, not being able to read, I hid it. I was shameful, I pretended I could read. And then when I got home I used food because I loved food, it sort of became the comfort. So even though my mother helped me read out loud and she helped with all of that, she didn't help because she didn't realize how much shame I was feeling. So I used food to comfort myself. And I never turned to drugs and I was always careful with alcohol and things like that. But I did use food over the years and it continued in college. I used food to support my emotional being. And I used it forever. I never purged, I did binge. And then that spiral of binging and feeling terrible about yourself, it circles and circles and makes you wanna eat more. And so I just felt like I needed to do something about this. And that's why, and then so I thought, oh, if I learned to teach cleanses and eat healthy all the time, then it'll all work out. Well, I did teach cleanse classes which you learn a lot from it, but it doesn't help if you have an eating disorder. If you still crave food, it helps for 10 days that you're doing it, but you're still counting on the food to soothe the emotions. So that's why I ended up going to eating psychology program. And again, that helped to learn it's healing and layers, layers and layers, peeling off layers and gaining new skills as you move along. As I moved along, I gained more and more skills realizing that every time I reached for the chocolate, like what's going on? What am I feeling? What am I trying not to feel? And let's begin to feel it. And that's when I also took the mindful self-compassion because self-compassion allows you to feel those feelings without reaching for the food. And it's, again, it's learning and learning and learning and practice and practice and practice. And I loved teaching mindful self-compassion. It's an amazing program. So I still use it. And I think through the walk, the long walk allowed me to be, even though Jim was there to be by myself. And into, I think that's where I really integrated all of a lot of the learning too. A lot of your work. I just wanna share with you and I'll share with my viewers too that after my mother died, I became an anorexic. And I still have some eating issues related to that. And so it's not uncommon. And I really appreciate you sharing these intimate parts of yourself. It means a lot to me and I'm sure to my viewers. So today you are this long-distance walker and I mean long distances. So talk to us about what inspired you to have a list that you say is a mile long of future trails you wanna experience. You just explained that the walking helps you to do self-discovery and self-compassion. Do you find that when you're on these long walks? That's what heals you? Oh yes, completely. That whole, you're basically embodied when you're walking that step, step, step, step, step. Yes, you're looking at beautiful scenery but you're breathing that breath and the step and breathing and breathing and thoughts come and go. And because I had practice meditation then you can that observer mind too. And day after day after day of walking and walking, yeah, it's the perfect time to reflect on life and to see what comes up and to trust what's gonna come up too. The practice of trusting what's gonna come up. And I could jump ahead a little bit to about why I decided to write the book. And I think that force was building inside of me while we were walking but I didn't even know it at that point. And as a dyslexic where you talk about your writing and just so my viewers know, to walk, it is to see it, is brilliantly written. So you wrote a beautiful book. Now on your website, kathyalkind.com, and I encourage everyone to visit your website, kathywitha.k, lkind, e-l-k-i-n-d.com. You have four videos of walking routes. You have taken totaling 1,891 miles, which is about twice the distance from Florida to New York City. You've walked through some of the most beautiful places in the world and they are beautiful videos and they're almost like travel logs. Yeah, yeah. As is your book. Yeah, well, after walking the GR5 in 2018, Jim and I, we both fell in love with long distance walking and we've decided that's the way we're going to travel. That's the way you wanna do. Now you call it walking. Some might say it is hiking. What is the difference or is there not one? Well, so when I was doing the research for the GR5, I read a bunch, a lot of different memoirs and guidebooks and in Europe they call it walking. They do call it trekking when you're up in the Alps but they definitely call it walking. And I like that tone. Walking is like, it's a little bit mellower than hiking. And I just, to me it's feminine. It's the balance. And so I like, and they call them walking shoes. They don't call them hiking boots. So I just like it seems more open and friendly and accessible. And that's what you're doing. I mean, when you talk about hiking, you think about that's going up a mountain but when you're walking, you're just walking and you can walk anywhere. There's no limits to it. And I love the walking. I'm not a big Iker, but boy do I love to walk. So let's move right into your book. So to walk it is to see it. Now I have my copy right here. One couple, 98 days, 1,400 miles on Europe's GR5. Now you and your husband Jim took a grown up gap year and you walked across the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and France. Talk to us about this experience. And what is the GR5? The GR5 is the Grand Rondinais Sank. And there are many GRs all across Europe. It's what's amazing if there's a website you can see all the different trails. And Europe is just designed with these amazing walking trails that have been old, old trails that bringing the salt across the Alps. So many of the trails and woods are very old. But basically the GR5 is a connection of trails. Sometimes we were on single tracks. Sometimes we were on farm roads. A few little bit of the time you're on pavement but not much. And it's basically village to village. And that's what inspired me because I love to camp but I'm happy to camp for two or three nights. I don't need to camp day after day after day. And I didn't want to carry a heavy pack. You and I are definitely soul sisters here. I sort of hear you. Now in your book, Kathy, you take us with us on every step. It is a personal and deeply engaging memoir. And you have an incredibly special relationship with your husband, Jim. And I love the sentence in your book where you say in quotes, looking north, I see Jim ambling up the trail. His gray shirt and shorts match the gray of the rock. His blue pack matches the sky and his rough smile matches my heart. I mean, so beautifully written. Talk to us about the intimacy of walking 1,400 miles in 98 days with your husband. Did you talk a lot with each other? Were there a lot of long silences? Lots of long silences. We kind of figured out on the third day that we were gonna walk like this. Not next to each other. We stopped, he stopped to take a picture of an anthill and I was a little frustrated to take it a while to get going that morning. And I just started walking ahead. And, you know, we could always, we always sort of had this underlying thing that we could always see each other because if we had gotten lost, we actually couldn't communicate even with our cell phones unless we had internet. So in the mornings, we would walk separately. Sometimes he would be ahead. Sometimes I would be ahead. And one person would be, you know, paying attention to our GPS and the way markers and the other person could just totally zone out. And also because by the time you sit down to dinner at night, a European meal can be two hours long. And what are we gonna talk about if we've talked all day long, you know? Yeah, I love it. So can you share with our viewers any moment during the trip when you might have given up? I mean, it's such a magnificent feat what you did and you talk a bit about your worry. Were there worry moments for you or a specific worry moment for you? Yes, there were definitely worry moments. There's one time in the Alps when I'm not convinced we're supposed to be going in that one direction and it's windy and raining and about to turn to snow. And I'm thinking we're going the wrong way. And we ended up turning back. So yeah, there were definitely times of worry. And part of the whole book is me, again, finding my voice of saying, no, I'm not happy doing this. We gotta turn around. And then there was one day also when I was just kind of bored and tired of the whole thing. And Jim had days like that too, but we had this thing that if we both had a bad day, then we would stop. We didn't really know what we were getting ourselves into. But it all ended up working out. And we never both had a bad day on the same day. Well, it's a magnificent journey. It's a magnificent journey. So I'm sure that you're training nutrition, ecology, geology, mind and body wisdom served you well in this journey. And then you talk about in the book about other types of smart and this really resonated with me. And you talk about the other types of smart rather than thinking as just educational thinking. You talked about smart thinking. Can you share with my viewers a bit about what you mean by that? Well, you know, emotional thinking using your emotions to help guide you. And then even body embodiment, using your body to inform you. Like, you know, when you're tired, maybe you should sit down and rest. Or when you're full of energy, keep going or get out and go for a walk. So embodiment, using your body for wisdom. And then you can take it even to a deeper level. You know, our intuition, I think many women have strong, strong intuitions and we've been bred not to pay attention to them. And, you know, even Jim now listens to my intuition because it's bright. I know we've been bred. I think we've been pummeled to not be so intuitive. But yeah, good for Jim. Good for Jim getting on board there. So I was hoping for my viewers that we're speaking here with Kathie Elkind about her new book, To Walk It Is To See It. And Kathie, I was hoping maybe you could read a few paragraphs from your book to my viewers. Would you be willing to do that for us? Yes, I'd be happy to. So much, thank you. Let's see. This is in the Jura. And if I'm going too long, just tell me to stop. This is in the Jura and it's reflecting on what happened earlier that day. Earlier today at noon, I was ahead of Jim. I walked out of one field through a hedgerow to a freshly cut hayfield. I was surprised to see a small sedan parked on the edge of the field with its trunk open. Looking closer, I saw a mom and two young kids setting up a picnic with green and white checkered cloth. The dad jumped down from a large tractor with a mower attached and walked towards his family. It's not fancy, it wasn't a fancy picnic. I saw crackers on a plastic plates. They looked up at me as I got closer. Bon appetit, I called to them as I continued on the trail. I felt like I was interrupting an intimate family moment. But at the same time, I felt blessed to witness it. I was proud of myself remembering to say bon appetit. Words I have heard wished to me at almost every meal. Now I could hand the words back with homage. Enjoy your meal. Questions poured out of me as I continued walking. Do they do this every day at lunch? Or was this a special occasion? Do all farmers in the Jura gather for lunch as a family during the mowing season? I do not know the answers, but I did peek through the window of the people of the Jura's life. I glance at my phone, it's nine p.m. now. The sun is low in the sky and still bright, though I'm fading. I'm ready to go to bed hungry. I just wanna lie down. The owner bursts, this is the owner of a jeet. The owner bursts into the room, hoisting a heavy casserole dish, showing off her biceps. She places an honor trivet in the center of the table. Bon appetit. Celeste, this is another walker. Celeste begins to feel everyone's plate with the potato cheese mixture with a large sausage on top, like a cherry on a sundae. The potatoes melt in my mouth. The cheese is sharp in flavor and soft in texture. My stomach is smiling, soon I'm full. There's plenty of potato and cheese for everyone who wants seconds, which is most everyone. It's interesting how my mood can change depending on food scarcity versus food abundance. Then the fruit and cheese plate is passed around. I've had enough cheese for today. I fill my plate with cherries and apricots. It's the first apricot I've had on this trip and the flavor is bright earth, is bright earth, rounded off, rounding off the meal perfectly. We all clear the table and set it for breakfast. Celeste again takes charge, assigning people tasks. I like helping, being part of the group. My heart warms to these walkers. They know the ropes. Over the evening, we have shifted from being observers to participants. It's the longest day of the year today, June 21st. At 9.45, the sun has set. I climb onto the big bed made up with crisp white sheets and look at the mauve dusk out the window. These days, I wear my sunglasses from morning to bedtime. I don't ever put on my regular glasses because I'm never awake when it's dark. I'm so happy to be here, spending an evening with people who love walking, even though I can't talk with them as much as I would like. I hear the rustle of the other couples settling into their beds. I snuggle up next to Jim and whisper. I wanna call out, good night, John Boyz to the other travelers down below. But I don't think they would get the reference. He smiles. And tomorrow, we get to walk again. We're so lucky. We turn our lips to meet in a quiet kiss. Then we slip apart to our sides of the bed. My lids fall closed, but I open them one more time to look out the window at the solstice light. From this angle, I see across the farm road to a bank covered with a profusion of daisies and red clover. The once bold colors of yellow, red, and green are now iridescent. I close my eyes for the final time of the evening. Oh, beautiful, beautiful. Did you keep a journal? You must have written this down every day in order to remember the details. So I kept a journal, but only like a paragraph each day. And I, you know, I write about my emotions. So I did write down emotions and description. Jim also kept a journal which he shared with me. And that was more, you know, detailed oriented about we walked this many miles from this town to this town. And we saw this and this. So that was great to use his journal. But I think having a dysselectic brain, I definitely see in pictures and remember in pictures. And that's one of my superpowers. When I was sitting down to write, I could put myself back in the, writing memoir is basically picking out the amazing scenes like you don't, I don't actually write about every single day. I write about the important scenes and putting myself back in that scene. And, you know, I took tons of writing classes too during my, this writing frenzy and learned, you know, we all know we were supposed to use our five cents. Good writing has all the different senses in it. So I could put myself back in the place and bring up those. And it, you know, it only been two or three years while I was writing or even a year when I, so I have a good memory for those. So, and the details are so beautiful. Again, we're speaking with Kathy Elkind, who is the author of To Walk It Is To See It. And this book is extraordinary about one couple 98 days, 1,400 miles on Europe's GR five. So Kathy, you, you are, you, you do lecture, you're on a lecture tour, you also hold workshops. So how do my viewers connect with you to get on a mailing list to receive information about what you're doing or do, and how do they become followers of you just through your website or is there a way for them to hear about when you're going to be talking about your book or talking about other things in your life? Yes, definitely the website you can sign up for my newsletter. I send a newsletter out about once a month. And also I have an events page. You can follow me on Instagram. It's Kathy Elkind, Kathy with a K, Instagram, Facebook too. That's, I do have a YouTube channel. I haven't put up, I gotta put up some new videos, but I haven't done that in a while. You can see my old videos. So it's KathyElkind.com, Kathy with a K, E-L-K-I-N-D.com, and they can sign up for your newsletter. So folks, go ahead and do that. Now you live in Vermont with your husband Jim as we spoke about who is the President of Stark Mountain Foundation, which by the way is another interview that I'd like to do. But what brought you to Vermont and what makes this place so special for you and for your family? Well, we've been coming up to ski at Mad River Glen for years and years and years. Jim, I think one of our first dates, not first dates, but a couple of months in we skied at Mad River with some friends and it's kind of interesting. We live pretty close to Noel Farm and Jim's parents way back in the 1950s rented Noel Farm with a bunch of the farmhouse years ago. And so we've known about it. And my father even came up here in the 50s too. So it's, we've been coming and we, our kids, our daughter raced on the ski team and our son skied on the freestyle team. And we eventually bought a small ski house and then we decided to leave Massachusetts after our kids had left the nest and move up here permanently. We sure are lucky to have the two of you here. So what's your next project? That's what I've been trying to figure out. I'm not sure. I'm trying to trust what's next. I have trust what comes up. I'm trying to, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, right, another book. I don't know. I'm not sure if that's, I'm very good at doing something and diving into it for, but then I get bored and I'm not sure if I can run it. We'll see. I don't know. Well, I've seen that. I mean, in studying you and your life, I've seen that you've done so much in such a short life. You have done a lot. And so I have no doubt that maybe your next iteration of yourself will be something completely different, which is exciting to me. You certainly are not somebody who bores other people. You may get bored, but you do not bore us. So I want to thank you for this moment. You know, it was delightful. It was innovative, invigorating. And to my viewers, I want to stress, go out and buy, get this book. I assume it's in all the local bookstores, Phoenix, down in the valley, wherever in Vermont and also online. Now, as Ben Shaduck, the author of Six Weeks, Six Weeks in the Footsteps of Henry David Thoreau, he says in his review, we have a lot of great reviews on the back of your book, by the way. I mean, there's a whole bunch of them and everybody's like, whoa, girlfriend, you are a superstar. But he says, but Ben Shaduck says, this book is full of profound insights and sharp observations of the world around her. Elkine's journey is a joy to follow. And it is a joy to follow. It's a joy to read. It's fast paced, gloriously written, intimate story of your adventures. So I wanna thank you for your time. I think you and I have a lot in common and I think we need to meet offline and get to know each other better because I think we have a lot of things in common, but I wanna thank you for being here with me today, Kathy. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's fun. It's always fun to share about walking, basically. You're in your beautiful life and thank you for your honesty and being so authentic. And to my viewers, I wanna thank you all for joining me. I hope you all got through this bit of testy weather the last few days and everybody's doing okay and I will see you shortly. Thank you for joining us today. I appreciate it.