 Last week, Sensei Yusuke Nagano, a karate coach in Japan, and host of the Karate Dojo Waku YouTube channel, joined us and talked about the traditions of teaching shodokan karate in Japan. Today, he's with us to share his exploration of other karate styles and martial arts around the world. Well, thank you for being here, Sensei. You've been doing a lot of effort in your channel, taking the time to kind of step out of your own system of shodokan and explore other martial arts and your reactions to that. Can you tell us a little bit about your experience and what you've seen and learned so far? Right. It's been very interesting so far because I've known shodokan, just shodokan, for like eight years since I started karate. So I never imagined myself learning other styles. And it's common to just do one style in Japan. So it's been a very unique experience overall. And it's especially interesting to see styles that branch out from shodokan such as tangsodo. I was so surprised to see something like that in Korea. I never imagined. And styles that are in the States as well. So I'm still deciding whether I should learn those seriously or not. But it's always fun, especially when you spar, to take those different techniques from other styles that aren't so far away from what you do. Because that's something you can just take in without that much effort. So it's been very fun. So there's something like tangsudo you mentioned. So tangsudo is based very heavily on shodokan, frankly. So do you see a lot of similarities or are there any strange deviations that kind of were unexpected? I think they're very, very similar. And however, the footwork is slightly different. Shodokan has a very heavy emphasis on the relaxation of the knee, having your pelvis upright and pushing with the back leg and those little technical parts, which makes a huge difference between the black belts or not even the black belts, but the very, very good karateka and the beginners. But I didn't see those emphasized so much in tangsudo. So maybe the founder didn't think that was useful or maybe it just got deleted in history. I'm not so sure, but those little things, I think, is the main difference. When you see it from far away, I don't think you can tell the difference. But when you see it up close and if you have experience on either side of it, I think there are no small techniques that are different in the background. You recently traveled to Okinawa. What was that experience like? I've been to Okinawa a lot of times for vacation. The beaches there are just amazing. So I mean, I used to go there a lot, but then for karate, it was my first time going. And it was a lot more laid back. That was my first impression in Japan. A lot of the karate schools are very, very strict, I guess, to the Western audience so that the Western audience can imagine it. Like when you go in, you have to be respectful. Like you have to switch mentally after entering the dojo. Like you have to bow like I mentioned in the other video. You have to put your stuff very neatly. When you talk to the sensei, you have to be respectful. And I wouldn't say it's not like an army, but it's almost like entering an army. It's very strict. But in Okinawa, I thought that was what the expectation was from the teacher. So I went in just like that. And the teacher was just like, no, no, no, just sit down. Let's have a little chat. So I was like, OK, that's how it is here. So it's a I mean, it used to be a different country, a kingdom there to. So some of the Okinawans still have their pride in their culture and they differentiate themselves from Japan. So the culture was a lot different. They're more laid back. They want to know the person. It's like karate is really something they do daily. It's very, you know, very relaxed. So I mean, I personally liked it because it's something so new to me. So just a quick curiosity. So like Okinawa or karate started in Okinawa and then went to Japan. Were there any influences in Japanese karate that went back to Okinawa? Like I would say yes, regarding terms like technical terms. In Okinawa, when they said, well, in Japan or I was in mainland Japan, we say for back stances, for front stances, for the horse stance. However, in Okinawa, those didn't exist. They just said put the weight at the back or put the weight at the front. How to weight in the middle? That's how they just described it. There wasn't like a like a term to explain things for punches. We have something like oizuki, kyaku zuki, uchi. But in Okinawa, they just said just punch or just punch with the back fist. It was like that. So I'm not sure when it was, but it got influenced from the Japanese language too. So I would say that's one technical aspect. I don't think there has been a huge influence, I think. They've been going on on their own. Yeah, I think that's the main influence. Of course, the Okinawan karate has been putting in a lot of influence or I guess it's the origin of the Japanese styles. So you can see that back to work. But the other way around, not so much, I guess. So basically a lot of things you wouldn't notice unless you actually went there and were able to compare the two. Right. I never imagined something like that. It was after talking to the Okinawan masters and there aren't a lot of Japanese videos or Japanese books explaining about the differences between Okinawa and Japanese karate. So unless you go there and talk to somebody in person, it's very hard to actually learn it within your head. Let me ask you this. So when you decide to look at another art that's not your own, if you want to experience something new, do you have a particular criteria and how you choose which art you're going to look at next and you go in with the mindset of trying to compare it to Shodokan? Are you trying to just go in completely blind and take it in all as new? As for the forms, when Enmarshalar has forms, I compare it to Shodokan or to the Okinawan karate styles because that's what I know only. And also, if you look at the person's movement, you can tell how much work they've been putting into it, regardless of the style. So I guess that wouldn't be a style comparison, but it would be like a practitioner comparison. When you see somebody do a... I think I recently did a Shuriryu Karate. I think it's American Karate style. I did a reaction analysis video on that. And I think I did three people, and there were obviously skill differences. And that's something you can pick up if you do martial arts. So I guess that part for kata, for forms, for sparring, Kumite, I think I unconsciously think about whether I can implement it to my sparring or not. So I have my set of ways of doing the sparring and techniques like boxing punches. Still, I don't have a lot of experience, so it's very hard for me to come up with the equation of how can I combine these together. But for, let's say, Takwondo, the art distance is very similar. So their kicks are very, I guess, rather easier for me to combine. So those, for sure. I like that you said that. You said that you look at their Kumite and you're doing it for the purpose to draw ideas from, as opposed to trying to impose your expectations on them. Because there's a lot of tendency for people to want to criticize other arts. But I like that. I like that you're doing the other viewpoint that you're trying to draw inspiration from it. I think that's fantastic. And I think that's, honestly, what more people should be doing in the martial arts. I just want to thank you for that effort. Oh, no, no. I never thought about doing the opposite. Oh, critiques. It's all over YouTube, yeah. Oh, I sense that and I don't like it. So that's why I want to stay away from it. Yeah, yeah. And there's no reason to think your style is absolute because nothing's absolute. Things change, so. Exactly. Well, I just want to say that I love that you're being so positive about it that you're trying to just draw more knowledge. I think that is the goal of what we're doing here, basically. Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, thank you. So I have to ask, what's the most curious thing you've seen in another martial art? I did four or three or four videos on Iaido, which is the art of the sword in Japan. And the master that I talked to, he was a, he had a different, I don't want to use the word aura, but he had a different feel. What I mean is in other martial arts where sparring is very common, like Takondo, Chinese like Wushu in those martial arts, or something like you do, where sparring is allowed or very common. We have this common understanding that sparring is something, it works as a way of communication. So you spar, you sense the other people and you become friends through sparring. But when the martial art doesn't have sparring, such as Iaido, if you spar, you're dead. So those martial arts, their focus on like completing or I guess practicing a technique is for the purpose of actually killing. So it's at such a high level that you can't really approach them so casually, if you know what I mean. You know, seeing those people and if you guys know Kurobi World, which is a martial arts YouTube channel, a Japanese one, there is a one say say called Miyahara sensei, he does Chinese martial arts. And he, I never met him in person, but he has that same feel. Like if you were to spar him, it's literally a life or death situation. You really have to put in that much energy and the decision is that heavy. And so, see, I never imagined something like that to be in the martial art world since coming from Shodokan, Shodokan does sparring. So that was something very eye-opening and very scary to be honest. Like, I don't know if I would be able to go on to that stage at all until I die. So that's something very interesting for me. Absolutely, because like even here, we have schools that will hold open sparring days. Like they encourage people from other artists to come in and it's all about, you know, learning from each other, having a good, you know, friendly sparring match, improving. So like when you describe that, that's actually could be very jarring and very intense. So that's actually interesting that you've encountered that. I never kind of, I never considered that myself, that walking to school like that. So they don't, so you're saying they don't have that friendly come out of sparring. It's, they're training hard and you're going to better train hard with them. They would be talking to you very nicely, very casually, but their eyes are just scary. They're not laughing. Yeah, so you would, it's not a game, it's not a game at all. And it's not like they're a mcdojo. Some people might call it a mcdojo, but it's not, it's not. When you see the person and when you see the him the person, you know, you really cannot mess with him. So you also mentioned that you're just looking around, but you haven't decided if there's anything that you want to pursue seriously, but have you come across any arts that you looked at? You're like, huh, that would actually meant or blend very well with shodokan or something that you think would compliment shodokan more so than other arts. Shodokan as in the, like the style itself or from a competitive aspect? Well, coming from a shodokan training, you're back on a shodokan. Have you seen any other arts that you've been like, you know what, we don't have that or that might help me with this or I'd like to blend that. Has anything jumped out at you that you found interesting that you think that would work well to incorporate it into your own training? I think the closest one and the easiest one would be the Okinawan styles. So like shodin' you, I think would be very good. We have similar katas and the way they execute the technique is a little bit different. Like the way they relax the body, the way they do the kicks. They're all, they're just slight differences but I think it complements very well. In shodokan, when you punch, you make a kime, so you punch like this, but then in Okinawan, shodin' you, they're punches a little bit more, like they relaxed the elbow and it's more pulled back. So those differences, when you learn that, you learn how to, okay, I can relax this much if I do shodin' you. So maybe when I do shodokan, I can get that down to like 30% and apply to my skills, something like that. So shodin' you would be one option. I would say that ITF taekwondo, I think would be good as well. Their katas are very similar too and they focus a little bit more on dropping down. In shodokan, we're told to keep the head at the same level and use the extension of the knee to generate power. However, in ITF taekwondo katas, I think they call it a tool. Pomsae is for WTF, the one in the Olympics. They go up, so when the legs are apart, when they go together, they go up and then when they step forward, they go down and by using this up and down motion, they change this, this falling gravity to this forward momentum. And they're very used to doing that. So although we were taught not to get the head up, it's just one way to use the body and their sparring, like I mentioned, is very similar. WTF taekwondo is very light. So if you touch, you get a point. So I don't think that's very, so something we can use in shodokan, but ITF taekwondo, they actually hit and the techniques are quite similar. So that's something I think will complement or become very beneficial for shodokan. Now speaking of beneficial, I saw one of your episodes that I thought was really fun when you covered the virtual sparring event. That was really creative. And that got me thinking, because you did that and I had never seen that before, but I did an episode of the while back about using virtual reality headsets and see if that would implement or compliment sparring and karate at all. So my question is, is there any technology, like now we're in a time where we've got Zoom meetings and there's a lot of different programs out there, virtual reality. Is there any technology coming up or technology that we have now that you think helps or it's going to help the martial arts or even hurt it? I think the, maybe in like five years, AR is gonna have a pretty large effect on learning martial art and learning something physical because I do Zoom and it's two dimensional. But if the AR technology advances, then I'll be able to project myself like in Star Wars and project my own body into a student's living room and they can move to see the different angles of a sensei's body, which is amazing. What I have to do right now is when I wanna show my body from the side, I move to the side, and then when I wanna show my body from the front, I move to the front and I angle myself, but that's only from my context. If the student wants to see myself from the side when I'm facing them, then they can freely do that. And maybe with the finger like Tony Stark does, you can just do this and then zoom in and when that happens, that's a breakthrough. So I'm very looking forward to that. It'll be very expensive in the first few years, I'm sure. But when it comes very cheap, I'm gonna be the first one to do it in this martial arts world. So I'm very looking forward to it. And I'll totally sign up for that, because I think that's, you're right. There's a huge difference being able to just change an angle and see a better detail than you would on the flat screen. I mean, that is a huge benefit. I think it'll be easier even to see in AR because if you're in an actual classroom, sometimes when everybody's focused and standing in the same spot, it's very hard for just you to move around and see from a different angle and you can't zoom in. But if it's AR, then just spin and then just zoom. And nobody's, I mean, you're in your own space, so you're not gonna feel pressure to do the same like others. So, and it's also, you can still have conversations. So I think it's very, very good. Well, speaking of technology and connectivity like that, with the internet these days, we've got YouTube channels, there seems to be a lot of, even though we all have basically the same anatomy, and martial arts vary so much from country to country, there seems to be a lot of attitudes online about whose art's better and the better way to do it. What are some things that are, things that you think people should keep in mind in terms of when they look at other arts? Like what should they be aware of? What are some prejudices that they should leave behind? Like just any advice for attitudes going in, looking at someone else's martial art? First of all, I think it's okay to have that critical way of looking at other martial arts. I think it's okay because I think their goal is to perfect their art. So when they see other martial arts, it's not aligned with their martial arts. So I think it's natural for them to react back to it. But for people, I think the battle, the reason why there's a battle is because there are people that think of martial art as a way to get themselves better or get them self-stronger, and the focus is on them and not the style. So for those, it's so natural to just take different bits and pieces from other martial arts. So I think it's just a perspective difference. And I mean, I'm on the latter side. So when I see people critiquing other styles, I like my first reaction would be, why is he saying that? But then when you think deeply about it, well, their main focus is to just do shou tou kan. So I mean, there's no use persuading them to become open-minded. I mean, I hope they do, but it's not something I would force them to do. As long as you're doing the work, if you're just saying something bad about other styles, just why not spend that time on doing 10 more punches? So can you give us any hints of any particular arts that you're looking for to investigate in it? Do you have anything coming up that we can look forward to? After the Olympics, I will be interviewing the top karateka in Japan. I can't tell who because it's not fixed yet, but I will hopefully get some of them on my channel as they're interviewed. So please look forward to that one. And I'm hopefully gonna be going back to Okinawa later this year. When it's like fall, winter, because Okinawa summers are just too hot. I don't want to go there. So maybe like, I don't know, September is still hot. November somewhere there, you might see a second series. And here and there, I will be going to other styles like ITF, Takondo, and other styles of shou tou kan, such as LEMBUKAI, which is a full body armor karate style. It's different from Kyokushin. It comes from a shou tou kan. Maybe you've heard of a name shou tou kan in this style. I've heard of it, yes. It seems shou tou kan was originally in Tokyo, but then a lot of people brought it to, I think Mexico, there's a huge shou tou kan community and in the States as well. But then one in Tokyo, it's dead now. We don't have it in Japan anymore. And it's only in other countries. And but shou tou kan changed, the members are still there. So they changed its name to LEMBUKAI. And they have their whole armor. The head gear is different. And it's closer. So think of it as shou tou kan full contact. They, there are styles like that in Japan. So I look forward to going to those dojo's to do it. So that one I can tell you that I will do. Well, Sensei, just again, I want to say thank you so much for spending your time today. I think it's absolutely wonderful what you're doing. Like, so you're expanding out, you're looking at other arts and you're exposing your viewers to more arts out there and opening up their ideas. So I just think that's absolutely wonderful. And just want to thank you for your hard work and thank you for being on our show today. Thank you so much. Once again, I'd like to extend a big thank you to Sensei Yusuke Nagano. I really enjoyed this collaboration and I appreciate his time to share his experiences with us. If you didn't see last week's video, I definitely recommend it and I've linked it in the description below. And also please visit his karate dojo waku channel. There you can find our discussions comparing American Kempo to traditional karate among other fantastic videos in his library. As an exclusive episode for our Patreon subscribers and YouTube memberships, I talk with Sensei in a special off the mat interview. That's a very funny question. It's so weird to be talking about this, but visit us on Patreon or click the join button below for access.