 Thank you once again to all our partners, okay. We have one last winner that we will be announcing in a little while, that Twitter contest that's on the most innovative tweets. So one last winner coming up in a little while, so keep tweeting away. Your hashtag is E4M Conclave, but of course, all right. So Michael Jackson during a very difficult phase in his life, defending his reputation had once said that just because it's in print doesn't mean it's gospeled. But you know what print is, black and white and print beat him to it. We now have a very interesting conversation on the power of print between head marketing passenger cars, Tata Motors, and the group CEO of Madison Media and OOH at Madison World. Mr. Srivastava brings over 23 years of experience in sales and marketing across consumer durables and automobile industries. In his immediate past appointment, Mr. Srivastava led the portfolio of the marketing director Middle East for the French car maker Renault. He previously held the position of a product group head marketing at Maruti Suzuki. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome on stage Mr. Vivek B. Srivastava, now in conversation with Mr. Vikram Sakuja. Okay, you know something I think is a setup. We are sitting in an AI conference and we are supposed to be talking about the power of print. Now I was just really struggling to find the AI angle and then I figured that it's probably the only intelligent consumers left are the ones who are actually consuming print. But you know, that's just to start off the conversation. I don't want this conversation to go around talking about the existentialistic nature of print. I think we, I don't want to be apologetic about the factors that you've got, whatever, out of a one billion sort of consumers that IRS picks sort of monitors, you've got 400 of them actually reading print, 170 of them read it in the last 24 hours. So it's not a small number by any stretch of the imagination. Will it be around 20 years from now? I think it's as much of an imponderable as will 200 million of Facebook be around 20 years from now. So I think that's neither here nor there. The fact is that it's a huge and very, very important sort of medium at this point in time. So let's try to keep this discussion around how to make it a very integral and essential part of the marketing plans. So I thought, we have about 20 minutes to talk. So I thought I'll cover three areas. One is what is the role of print when it comes to the entire multimedia, integrated media setup? Number two, the effectiveness of print, how do we measure? And number three, how can we get the good creative juices flowing back into print? Let's start with the first one. Look, I know from a, I mean, Tata Motors has been a very, very strong believer of integrated media. And I think you take pains to say it's not multimedia. It's not silo, but it has to be interconnected. Tell us about this interconnectedness of media that you look for in your plans. Yeah, thank you, Vikram. I think interconnectedness is quite a cliche, but many of us don't really follow it. I think we have to commit to that interconnected right from the stage we create the creative brief and take it right through the end of the campaign. It's really much more difficult to follow it in spirit than an intent. Yeah, you're right, at Tata Motors we do, we have been pushing that quite a lot. You know, and I can say quite confidently today that when sticking to this really hard and sometimes to the discomfort of our agencies, it's really worked for us. In the last two years, we've seen substantial change in the way people look at us. I mean, one of the auto companies which have been growing consistently for about 30 months now, and huge change in the kind of brand perception. And it's all because of this rather cliche, but cliche mantra, I would say. Do you think you're able to assign a role to different mediums? So what does TV do and specifically what does print do and the rest of them? I think we wouldn't be able to do justice to interconnectedness as you call if we don't assign very, very precise role to each media. And since we're talking about print, I'll begin with print. I mean, all of you have bought automobiles at some point of time or other. And there's no better way to showcase a car other than a full page print right below the mast head. So I think that really is one element of print that we keep dreaming of as automotive marketeers. There are other elements as well in the mix. Obviously, the television part has a lot of emotions which is overlaid on the rather technical aspect of print. TV does the emotional part. Today, more and more digital does the selling part. Thanks to the medium of digital, we can really cut and slice a customer very precisely and reach the right kind of person at the right time of the day with the right message. But the romance of print continues very much in the automotive sector. Okay, great. Do you believe, okay, if I have to right now say that between print providing you credibility, the entire conveying of visuals in an impactful manner which you just mentioned, localization, a sense of immediacy, forum for presenting new news like launches and also an antidote to fake news. Now these are some of the reasons why people ascribe to using print. Are any which stick out for you and more than the others? Yeah, and while I just alluded to the romance of print, but it's not really so simple. I've just landed back now, landed in Bombay now from a rather heartbreaking visit to Bangalore to discover in one of our dealers that we had a full page launch ad which generated the grand total of one lead. So that's the other side of the reality. So I think it's very, and it's coincidental that we're talking about AI in this forum. I think a lot of hard work has to go into what kind of market, what kind of publication, what kind of print media deserves what kind of a creative approach. To me, what you do in a magazine has to be completely different from what you do in a daily. And it changes dramatically also market-wise. I'll give you, I'll go a little deeper into the example I just gave. It's from the city of Bangalore. It was a full page ad. I had walked in with arrogance into one of our network and I was faced with this rather a nightmare of a number. And it really brought me down to earth and made me realize that we need to put far more intelligence and data into planning even our print. Of course, I recovered a little bit when I realized that a similar, for the same product, long form kind of media on print which talked about travel stories which talked more about the technical aspects of the car had much more impact in Bangalore than just a plain advertising. So I think it's very, very important to put data behind the plan for print. It's not just buying acres of space on print, but think, I would advise the marketers to think behind the content, behind the tone and style before you go into newspapers. Believe me, it changes publication to publication city by city and I would say product to product as well. Great. Do you equally have a story of an ad of yours that got fantastic number of leads? Fortunately, I have more than one. Otherwise, I'll be without a job now. But yeah, I have a very fond remembrance and since we're talking about Bangalore, I'll speak about Bangalore again. We launched one of our compact SUVs, the Nexon, a little more than a year and a half back. We went, while it was print, we inlaid a little bit of intelligence, AI, as we called it, and a customer could download an app and point his phone at the ad and he could see the car in 3D on his desktop or on the table wherever the paper was. And we're glad to say that we had a lot of public from Bangalore taking images of the car popping out of his newspaper and putting it on Twitter and Facebook. So that really worked well in Bangalore. So I think we didn't learn the lesson there, but I've sure learned it today. Fantastic. So what we're getting out here is understanding not only your consumer, but your market is becoming important and what kind of creative or messaging is really going to work there and two great examples of where it did and where it did not. What has been your learning in terms of print also, or to do with interconnectedness of media, does print also impact digital activity, like whether it's sessions or registrations or stuff like that? Any synergistic impact? Yeah, it's interesting that you asked that, Vikram. So again, going back to the same example, I had to kind of retrieve my pride today and what we realized that while the leads generated from that ad was one, we had a huge spike in the visits to the website from the newspaper ad and then obviously turned around quite a few leads from there. So I think we also have to multidimensionalize our expectations on what to expect out of each other of our print communication, not keep it just in the offline space. Today, I think consumer is seamlessly flitting across the various media and we'll have to broad base our expectations beyond just leads, a brand, but really be inventive on the parameters that we measure our effectiveness as well. Okay, let me just try to get you to make some choices. You talked about TV actually building the entire emotional quotient. You talked about print building both visual appeal as well as walk-ins and sort of walk into the dealerships and actually digital for closing the sale. If you, we haven't talked about outdoor, which of course has its own role and very, very active role in autos. In all of this, when it comes to crunch time and if you have to make a trade-off, which is the one to face the acts first? When I think last, I think it's safe to say that every day is crunch time for us, especially in Tata Motors with the kind of growth we are gunning for. I'll give you a data to kind of tell you the choices we are making. This year 50% of our spend is on print. I think that kind of answers your question. Of all ATL 50% is print and it's not that we've been doing out and out call to action advertising or promotional advertising. We've done quite a bit of launches as well, but again, I go back to the point I made earlier. It's not just buying space. We've, I take a bit of pride and thank my media agency as well. A lot of data has gone. Today we have repository of data. Again, machine learning I would say where I can say that if I launch, if I release an ad in this market, this page, this size of ad, I know approximately what is the kind of leads and what's the kind of web visits I'll get. So somewhere there's a bit of machine learning AI in that as well. Brilliant. Okay, so for all you Naysayers, here is one of the most successful auto companies in the country spending 50% of his money on print and planning to keep it that way from whatever I can make out. You said this more than once. This entire piece about the empirical results coming from print. Now we know that Tata Motors is known for the analytical rigor that you put into place. You seem to be having benchmarks or expected inquiries for insert of publication market like you just mentioned. Give us your tips on what does work for you in print to reduce the cost of inquiries by publication. So for example, how do you reduce cost? What is your, some cheat codes that you can give all the people out here? Which are the top responsive markets to print inserts? Which are the publications which deliver highest response? What is the kind of mark, the mix that you actually like to use? Do you use long tail publications or just the top ones? Basically, I'm now just getting into a little bit of the gory stuff. But if you can leave the audience with some kind of cheat codes and something that you picked up through empirical data, that'd be valuable. Yeah, I think I can spend the evening talking about the data behind this become, but the cheat code basically is to follow database trends with a high weightage for recency. I mean, I think the Indian consumers are changing very rapidly. While his fundamental behavior doesn't change, there's a huge weightage to be given how he responds to the market, the economy, and many other things in the last four or five months. So as I said, we are building a huge amount of data to really kind of, before we release an ad or before we release a campaign, using the data we have, there's a number we can kind of pinpoint. And that's what I would advise all the print planners, media planners here, use data, factor in the recency effect, and stick to that is what I would advise, yeah. No, I'm not gonna let you off, so you'll have to be more specific. Do you think large-sized ads work more than small ones or which one wins, large or small? I would go with the large. And how important are positions front page versus inner pages? Very important, I mean, most of the time. Who knows, hoping to hear the other way round, because there just seems to be limited inventory the papers are selling. I know, I know, but we were just talking outside. October 10th this year, it took me quite a long time to reach the front page of the Times of India. I think many other marketers feel the same way, but having limited money, I tell my team to err on the side of, you know, page position rather than size. Page position of a size? Okay, so do you feel, it's not a question, but do you feel regional publications work better for you or national publications? Yeah, so I was just looking at some data on the flight. I think the entire industry, the print media is growing because of regional, you know. And not only the economy, in fact, is being bolstered by the smaller towns, the regional languages, the Indic languages. And I think the future is in going regional. Excellent. We're getting a fair, the game, the takeout that I'm getting is, I think the data that you really measure is what inquiries or leads or is it? Those are the immediate benefits. Like I released an ad today by afternoon, I start measuring the leads, but there are obviously the brand parameters also that we follow, probably over a month or so. And you do, when you're saying that, when you're saying tracking, when you're tracking print's impact on that. Yeah, so not to forget the hits on our website, which in fact starts before we start tracking the walk-ins to our showrooms. And you're able to attribute them to the different mediums, like print versus digital versus TV. Yeah, of course. We know exactly which day of the month or which is the area that we've released the ad and we can localize the web visitor to where he's come from. So that's quite basic. So great. There's a lot of empirical stuff in actually establishing the entire magic behind that 50% budget that goes into this, into print. So now let's towards the, let's close up this conversation by actually talking about how to extract the greatest creative juice out of print. And I'm talking to somebody like you talked about your, you brought about AR and VR, both you use them through innovations. I think you use the key very innovatively to, which brand was that? I think you used for customized test drives? For Nexon? So you, for Tiago also, I think you used, was that a key or was that a, that was virtual reality. So you use a whole lot of technology for these kind of things, but you've also been spending a lot of time and making sure that the visual appeal of the advertising is good. Now we all know, like for example, one of the famous ads of all time print ads was at 60 miles per hour, the only sound you hear is of the clock ticking, the Rolls Royce one. Now, what will it take to get that kind of magic or your kind of magic to become the norm from what we see? I'm not very impressed with the sales day ads that I see in terms of creative capability. I'm a strong believer in classic advertising approach. I think firstly, we need to give the creative agency time to really sink in and kind of get a feel of the challenge, give the creative guys time to really get the juices flowing. You can't give them a brief, today evening and ask them to come back the next day with a print ad. You'll get, I don't want to use this negative word, but you'll get the kind of leaflet kind of advertising. So I think the advice I would give is, follow the process, prepare a very disciplined brief to your creative agency, give the agency time, embed them as part of your own team, embed your problems and your successes into the creative team. And the most important, what we've been doing well at Tata Motors, I think is to really enhance the interaction between the various creative teams of digital and offline, so that there's a very, very seamless approach and there's a good exchange of ideas and thinking. So to put it simply, give the agencies time, embed them closely within your own team, let them feel the problem as it is theirs and I'm sure the creative masterminds will do the job. Great, thank you. I think with that we're coming to the end of our 20 minutes allotted to us. I'm definitely getting the impression that print is a medium which is clearly there to build your brands if you know how to build them. What Vivek has just told us is, whether it is the kind of focus in which they spend on how to develop the creative so that the, I love the word that he used, romancing the entire visuals and romancing the consumers with the kind of visuals and actually taking that pain and bringing it out on your whatever be the print format, be it magazines or newspapers. It's actually being able to understand how the various mediums play a role in the interconnectedness of it all in actually delivering the final results and then actually having the ability to set yourself the KPIs and then measuring the tracking the data and then actually seeing what works. His entire ability, I think the detail which he seemed to get into in terms of going down to micro levels to see which kind of customization of message to do for what kind of markets, what where are you likely to get more results. There is artificial or not, but there's some real fantastic intelligence that play out here. Thank you so much for all these insights. Pleasure, thank you. Thank you everybody. And thank you both for being on the stage of E4M Conclave 2018. We'd like to say thank you to both of you. May I please invite on stage Mr. Vinod Srivastava, Chief General Manager, Strategy and Brand Development, Venik Jagran, good evening. Request you to please do the honors. Once again, we'd like to thank Mr. Vivek B. Srivatsa and Mr. Vikram Sakuja. Thank you Vinod for doing that. Thank you both so much. Thank you.