 Welcome, distinguished guests. We are at the energy session organized by CNN Turk and the World Economic Forum. I would like to welcome you all to our CNN Turk's energy outlook. So during this session we're going to talk about changing energy dynamics in the region and we will go into the details and what are the key challenges, what are the potentials, what are the problems which we have to face and new resources, new energy and new plans and what is the future agenda. Let me brief you the essence or the general framework of this panel. The challenges facing the energy industry are growing more difficult every day. Projects are increasing in size, complexity, risks and costs. At the same time society is transforming and demanding more from both business and government. These changes create not only challenges and opportunities for companies in the energy industry, policymakers and society at large. On the other hand there are serious political developments in our region which concerns also stakeholders and policymakers. So as I said we will focus on the future agenda. If you permit me I would like to start with Mr. Fatih Pirol and before that I want to introduce my, sorry, I have to introduce you our panelists today. Minister Tanahildes is with us today, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources here in Turkey. Thank you very much Mr. Minister to join us. Kemal Ben-Masur, Minister of Industry, Energy and Minds of Tunisia. Minister thank you very much again. Also we have today Fatih Pirol, Chief Economist for International Energy Agency in Paris. Thank you very much and again we are delighted to have here with us again Majid Jafar, Chief Executive Officer of Crescent Petroleum from United Arab Emirates. Thank you for joining us. So as I said I would like to start with you if you permit. In more recent years there has been almost revolution in energy markets globally with the discovery and exploration of non-conventional resources like Shellgas. US has become almost independent in terms of energy requirements so please share with us your comment in this region is still important for the global energy markets or not. What's the new challenges? Thank you very much. As you rightly said there is a big revolution in the North America. US mainly but also Canada. United States today is the largest oil producer of the world and largest natural gas producer of the world. United States is overtaking Saudi Arabia as the number one oil producer and overtaking Russia as the number one natural gas producer. This is one. However to be a big producer is something to be a big exporter is something different. In terms of oil almost all the oil US producers at home will be used by the Americans. They will have almost no major volumes to export to meet the growth in the demand in Asia in other countries. So when we look at the global picture there is only one region which can meet the global oil demand growth which is the Middle East. When you look at the size of the resources when you look at the cost of low cost of production my message is Middle East is and will remain critical for the global oil markets for many years to come. Middle East is the address of the global oil markets for many years to come. Of course I'm sure my colleagues especially Minister Yildiz will mention it. The geopolitical developments in the very region overshadows the economic and energy effects in the region. Station in Iraq, in Libya, problems between Iran and the international community and Russia Ukraine crisis all around this region tells us that the energy and geopolitics will be more and more interwoven and for me if I have to drive one single message energy security will move up high in the international agenda in the next months to come. I don't have the good news or a bad news but I think countries like Turkey which is very stable in the very region will play an important role to ensure that energy security is at its place. Thank you. Thank you. Minister Yildiz let's start also with your perspective about the general view of the energy sector on a global scale. How do you see the future, the near future? First of all we have to recognize that economies in the world are globalized but we also see that there is nationalization of some activities. This seems to be a paradox because economies are growing with the injection of international capital and these economies continue to grow and they feel like they have to act very carefully. Turkey is a developing, growing country and as such has to follow up on developments that are taking place in the world because Turkey's growth is possible with the support of international capital and energy and international politics are two topics which are very much intertwined and they are complementary to each other so much so that lack of one brings about questions about the other. With Fukushima preference has moved towards natural gas despite the fact that shale gas is now important in the U.S. And the United States is not an exporting country but the position of the U.S. is always important and Russia's relations with the EU especially with the Ukraine crisis, the instability in the Middle East are all factors which are very important and Turkey is in the middle of all these developments like an island of stability, it has some geographical advantages and those advantages are becoming even more important under the circumstances. The natural gas and oil reserves to the east and north of Turkey constitute 65 percent of world's known reserves and to Turkey's west you have 65 percent of consumption which means that Turkey will be very important in terms of projects that it will be involved in. There are still 1.4 billion people in the world who have no access to energy and so it's very important that the energy sector grows in order to provide more access to more people. And the political instability that we see in the Middle East has created some concern with respect to the supply of energy in the world and the process that began with the Arab Spring and then what is happening now have had some impact on concerns regarding energy. Many sectors do not like instability but the energy sector is perhaps one that does not like instability at all and this is the energy sector is important and there's a lot of international capital in it so that there is instability in the region is a major problem for the energy sector. That's why it's important to have peace and we try to ensure that there is peace and stability in the region and it's very important to work on energy projects in order to alleviate some of the concerns regarding instability. I mean let's start with a general view with a general perspective. So my co-panelists have talked about the supply side. I'm going to touch on something else about energy on this region. If we look at the projections from the International Energy Agency or any other projections, this region is increasing its consumption of energy by very large numbers and it's extremely important for this region to rationalize the use of energy. If we look today at the subsidy level in the energy sector, there are sometimes absurd. If we look at the use of oil for power plants, this is also a waste of a natural resource because there are other resources that are one cleaner and second thing cheaper to do the same thing which is to generate electricity. So in the MENA region, while it's very rich in terms of resources, it also has to go into a courageous plan in terms of rationalization of the use and the subsidies. If I look at the situation in Tunisia, since the beginning of the year, we have undergone a very strong plan in terms of rationalization both in terms of internal consumption of households as well as industries. So this plan is already bringing some significant results and we want to continue this way. We all know that the subsidies today, really if we go to the low income or the middle income, these are not the ones that are benefiting the most. The ones that have the higher income are benefiting one. So there needs to be a very strong push for rationalizing this very precious resource. Mr. Jaafar. Sorry. It's the same. We started with a general perspective and comments. Let's continue your views. I think the relevant challenges for the global industry and also for the region that we sit at the heart of have been well summarized on the supply side and on the demand side. So the key question is what are the obstacles? Why isn't it happening? And I think in many parts of this region we see, I mean region in the widest sense also looking west to Europe and looking east to the Middle East and Central Asia, we see that policy and politics sometimes is an obstacle to the rational economic development that needs to happen in the energy sector. In my part of the world, in the Arab world we've been operating as a private oil and gas company now for over 40 years in the Middle East. And the word in Arabic for policy and politics is the same. So we're doubly confused on that sometimes. So you have, as the minister said, 65% of the world's resources there and 65% of the world's demand there. But there are a lot of borders. There's a lot of politics. There's a lot of history. And there are some regulatory issues. And I need to enhance the role of the private sector in my view. Turkey, apart from being a big and growing market which will double again in the next decade as it meets its growth goals, has the potential in my view not just to be a transit country but to be a hub. And I think the difference is like with the train stations. One is where the train is stopping. The other is when many trains are coming from different directions and that's a different role and a much more important role potentially. Already there's big supplies, particularly from gas. There's, you know, from Iran, from Russia, from Azerbaijan. Potential supply is also to come from Iraq, particularly the Kurdistan region which may have two, three trillion cubic meters of gas. We ourselves are the biggest investors there. We've invested $1.2 billion. We're the biggest gas producers there. So the idea of Turkey bringing in gas supplies from many different countries and actually going one step further and setting the price here in Turkey for real markets, pipeline markets, you need a price point. The United States has what's called Henry Hub which is in Louisiana. And all the price in the United States is determined as a difference from that point. Europe has the Zeebrugge in Belgium which again, European gas is priced off that. Part of the problem in the Middle East we don't have a transparent pricing mechanism. So these big important gas deals get held up because of politics and because of negotiations on price and arbitrations and so on. So Turkey by being both a big market and potentially a big hub for gas could end up being that price point and that could really enhance bringing on much more supplies from Middle East resources which could not only meet the Turkish needs but going on to meet European needs as well. Let's ask to the minister. What do you think, minister about Mr. Jaffers? Well indeed, I agree with him. One of Turkey's goals is to consider the fact that the amount of oil and natural gas that Turkey is using is more than maybe 15 countries combined. So the scales in Turkey are much larger and Turkey itself is a very attractive market. But you mentioned a very important point. National politics and governments which sign these agreements on the one hand try to protect the rights of their citizens to get their votes in the elections and on the other hand they also have to protect the interests of international capital that comes to their countries. You need to have a very good optimization of this relationship because on the one hand the investors should receive some profit maybe not too very much that they take it away from the country but then again they should not be making little profit either. So you have to strike a fine balance here and Turkey thankfully has achieved this. There is also gas in the eastern Mediterranean and if political considerations can be resolved then economic considerations can become very important. And the issues in Cyprus have to be resolved for that and if sanctions on Iran are lifted then natural gas can flow from Iran then we are also working on the TANAP project and we broke ground 10 days ago for projects in the Caspian. We're also working with Russia on other projects so in fact we have a lot of work on our plate. And there's no reason why Turkey can't be an energy hub where prices are determined because Turkey is stable. It has stable policies and Turkey has the capacity to be a price point and with the most recent developments in Northern Iraq with developments there involving ISIL it's very important that the issues there are addressed and the situation in Iraq is normalized. So far the Kharkiv-Germatolog pipeline has a capacity of one and a half million barrels a day. This is actually a bigger capacity than the Baku Tbilisi Jehan pipeline because Baku Tbilisi Jehan has 50 million and the Kharkiv-Germatolog line is working with 70 million capacity but in Iraq we are restricted to what is being produced and so there has to be more production in Iraq so that that can be transported and then we can carry this trade through Jehan to the rest of the world. And these are all very important things and Turkey can do a lot because it's a stable country and when Turkey maintains its political stability then it contributes greatly to regional stability and we'll continue to do that. That in order to Turkey become a hub in the region the main obstacle is what's going on in Iraq and in Syria. Can we conclude that? Indeed, this has been a significant hindrance because we have some goals and we have some performance evaluations and the instability in that region is very important to us because let's say you have instability for six months, the impact is not for six months long it's for much longer. You feel the impact for much longer. With the crisis in Ukraine the permission is given to South Stream and the fact that the Bulgarian government is not allowing South Stream these will all have an impact on the role that Turkey can play. Political instabilities are threats and countries ought to be trying to resolve these threats without trying to gain only for themselves. Crude oil and natural gas are very important inputs and many people unfortunately believe that they are reasons for war and for Turkey energy is always a means for peace and this is how we view our activities with regard to energy. We see sometimes energy being a burden on international politics or international politics being a burden on energy but we hope that a fine balance will be struck in this relationship and in this respect Turkey's position hasn't changed. We would like to see the problems resolved. Iran's gas being transported the transport we also would like to see more natural resources from Iraq being transported to the rest of the world and in Syria too it's important that Syria is part of a stable outlook and Turkey is not only a transit country as was just mentioned Turkey has goals to become an energy hub. Mr. Birol would you like to tell us also of course it's affecting very much very closely Turkey but what's the instability and very unfortunate events in neighbouring countries in Iraq and Syria how it has, what kind of effects it has on the global markets? Now first of all generally we always say that about two thirds of the global oil and gas reserves in this region which is very good but this oil and gas is under the ground. In order to bring this oil and gas from under the ground to the pump station, to the power plants you need to make investments and as Mr. Yildiz rightly said if the investors are scared, if they're uncertain about the stability of the region they do not go and put their money. These geopolitical events in the region issue of ISIS, what's happening in Libya they scare the investors and my main worry is not for today only but in the next few years because if there is no investment made now and if the production doesn't go up while the energy demand growing very strongly in Asia and elsewhere who is going to meet that demand growth if there is no investment in the Middle East because of these geopolitical events? The main worry is the unfortunate meeting of geopolitics keeping the investment down and growing needs for energy in Asia and my main worry. But you're experiencing the same case in Tunisia because your neighbour Libya is facing serious problems too so would you like to share your comments with us? So in terms of Libya we have had hundreds of thousands of refugees from Libya the number almost reached 2 million people at some point which for Tunisia which is 11 million people is quite a huge number it represents 20% of the population that has been added up within a very short period of time so we have started to see the beginning of a democratic process in Libya with the latest elections we hope that the Libyans can agree that this is a basis for getting back together today the Libyan situation could have a spillover throughout the whole region especially to the south and this is creating significant issues so where do we go from there? I think that if we go back to the theme that you were talking about today if we compare the US and Europe the growth rate of the US has been partly enabled by the cheap gas prices today the Henry Hub prices could be one third of the European prices so if a Europe had the possibility of getting gas at lower prices and how do they get them? One is through their own production we see that through the studies that have done there is a significant potential in Europe from unconventional resources somehow the development has been very slow and because politics and sometimes emotional rather than rational basis has been used for talking about share gas some countries have banned the development of share gas we think that the work that the International Energy Agency has done in terms of defining those golden rules for unconventional development are a very good starting point and we hope that people can agree that these are necessary and sufficient conditions for sustainable development of these resources that we have below the ground Mr. Jaffar, you have a great experience actually in Iraq as you mentioned so one of the recent most interesting and most inspiring energy projects is between Turkey and the Iraqi Kurdish region's government so would you like to share with us although there are all these instability in the region how do you see the future of those projects why it's important to the region and how you benefit other countries from the Gulf region from those kinds of projects? Sure, well Iraq is a very important major resource holder the last big untapped resource holder of oil and gas resources less than few thousand wells have ever been drilled in Iraq's history compared to like ten times as many in Saudi Arabia or a million wells just in Texas in the United States so it's really at the beginning of the development and has the potential of supplying Asia, Turkey and on to Europe the issue in Iraq and Fatah based on projections is that a significant proportion up to 40% of new export capacity worldwide is going to be coming from or should be coming let's say from Iraq the challenges as Minister Benesar said our region is the issues are not below the ground the issues are above the ground and the United States their issues are below the ground and they've tackled them with technology but above the ground they have great liquid markets stability, finance, service companies and so the Middle East has been seeing falling production while North America has been seeing rising the proportion from the Middle East in many ways now for Iraq a lot of the focus of course on the conflict, on the political issues sectarianism and instability but for the oil and gas sector there are some more fundamental issues about agreement on policy national policy, unified policy passing the necessary legislation the oil investment law but also the revenue sharing law that ensures that everybody in the country gets the proportion based on their population not based on where the oil and gas is so in this way the constitution of Iraq wants the oil to be a unifying oil and gas to be a unifying force of the country not one that causes conflict unfortunately there has been a lot of politics between the central government and the regional government in the Kurdistan region and a lot of the constitutional provisions haven't been implemented yet with the new government now it's stated as a priority that this legislation will be passed a new mechanism for sharing the revenues which is very important to encourage the investment from all the oil and gas companies such as ourselves in terms of the international trade it's going to be very important both for Turkey and Iraq the Kurdistan region, the central government and other markets like Europe the key in our view is to remove the politics from the equation because if such a trade a long-term trade requiring a lot of investment is dependent upon Arab Kurdish politics or Kurdish Turkish politics it's not going to be successful or sustainable in our view and having the government as Deputy Prime Minister Babashan said as the regulator overseeing but having private sector to private sector on both sides of the border actually carrying out the investment and the trade the government's role as the regulator not just in that but in any cross-border trade that's going to achieve not only the sustainability but the respect for the constitution because at the end of the day the Iraqi constitution clearly states that international agreements are the purview of the federal government but if the private sector is involved in export then that is okay providing that there's the right regulation the right transparency on the revenues so that everybody knows where the revenues are collected how much is collected where it goes and how it's shared and that will avoid any potential constitutional legal or political issues and ensure that the trade is sustainable over the long term Mr. Yildiz would you like to go into details about Iraqi Kurdish oil now naturally this bit is crucial energy prices are always as to be cheap are always considered cheap by the producers and too expensive by the consumers this is a paradox and if governments don't handle the issue properly then the acceptance of investors becomes questionable that is why in the beginning I said the governments need to strike a delicate balance a balance where the governments still protect its people but also satisfy international investors an optimal point so to say unfortunately I must admit that the prior government lacked a system with the new government in place in Iraq we're hoping that this system will be settled it seems they're preparing the infrastructure and my initial talks with the Iraqi government are quite positive Turkey has agreements with Baghdad it also has certain contracts with Arbil and although it's under private law private companies or public companies can sign contracts and have signed contracts with Arbil that natural gas that oil belongs to Iraq it's not Turkey's oil that is why the internal regulation of the system in Iraq will be crucial it must be up to the Iraqi people to define how that should be settled Turkey only made sure this system was built we believe that Iraq will normalize to the extent that revenues will normalize some people say are you intervening in Iraq's internal affairs by no means it's definitely not our intention to do so but we have a neighbor a brother whose instability has direct impact on you that means their stability is also in our interest both for Iraq and Syria but we'd like to see more stable countries in our neighborhood because this is going to make life easier both for Turkey and for the region about 10 days ago there was a groundbreaking ceremony in Baku it's actually one of the chains a chain of four exploration of the Caspian Sea resources transmission via Azerbaijan via Georgia to Tanap Turkey and the route up to Switzerland via Greece the top bit of it $45 billion is the value of this chain in total which means the stability in all these countries is of crucial importance to all of us therefore governments and all the structures they develop for projects they must become internally accountable for all these projects Mr Babacan touched upon a very important point he said governments should be regulatory bodies that they should play the role of a regulator especially countries which are liberalizing must make sure their states become regulatory bodies for instance in Turkey its electricity its transmission has been liberalized natural gas except for Istanbul liberalized and most production companies have been liberalized or are about to be liberalized all these policies are crucial for developing markets like Turkey in fact it's a reconciliation with the developed world with the global markets four years ago Turkey had predicted a structure which is becoming real now because it's that structure which it's this structure Turkey foresaw that is sustainable the structure four years ago was unsustainable clearly Turkey has to make use of its strategic geostrategic importance and contribute to stability in the region because it's particularly important we need to see energy items as a pathway to peace and although not all projects have been completed in the EU Turkey is becoming a solution to EU's natural gas problem it is going to develop projects which will continue to contribute to EU's energy problem as an island of stability we'd like to see more stability in the region there is an obvious rapprochement between the western world and Iran how do you see the new future how P5 plus one nuclear negotiations are at a critical stage what are your expectations Iran is one of the major oil and gas countries of the world in terms of oil in terms of gas Iran can make a major contribution not only in the region but for the entire world but today Iran has serious problems with the international community with respect to nuclear if this problem cannot be solved I am afraid Iran will not be able to increase production in a significant manner why? very simple Iranian oil fields are difficult fields so you need a sophisticated technology and the money capital to go in but the current sections current sanctions do pose an obstacle there but if the sanctions are lifted as you suggest if there is an agreement between international community and Iran we may well see in a few years of time Iran to be once again a major oil and natural gas producer making positive contribution to the markets and here once again as Mr. Yildiz said it is very important Turkey is in this region and provides a stable export route for this very country but the key issue is not the availability of oil and gas resources in Iran which are huge which are very rich the key issue is to have a solution for the nuclear issue for Iran Mr. Ben Nasser any comment on that? Iran's position? so if we look at this situation in Iran I fully agree with Dr. Biroh that the complexity in Iran is both on the ground above the ground and below the ground because the fields in Iran have generally complexity through litologies that are more difficult so things have to go hand in hand one is progress in the negotiations that are ongoing but also the use of technology that would enable the unlocking of these resources below the ground and this technology would have to come today from outside of Iran it can go through either partnerships with oil and gas companies or also and with service companies that provide those technologies Mr. Jafar yeah I think Iran has huge oil and gas resources BP statistical review this year says that actually probably has more gas than even Russia the challenge even I think after the sanctions are lifted will be how to get the investment today oil is $100 or just below and there are competing demands for investment from international oil companies North America has opened up and so on the challenge in Iran is that the constitution prohibits private investment in the way that the sector knows it worldwide so you can only have service type contracts with limited profit potential on the oil price exposure and some years ago 20 years ago oil was cheaper and Iran was able to encourage investment and get the production up to 4 million barrels a day as Fatah Bey said 20 years is a long time and there is real need for massive investment and technology and even if the sanctions are lifted it won't be an immediate you know suddenly millions of barrels coming onto the market the way some media are presenting it it will take time and they are already trying to change the contract model to encourage investment but they do have this constitutional provision which is perhaps limiting that Mexico incidentally looking at the side of our region had the same provision and they removed it in last December because they can see what's happened in the United States and in the Gulf of Mexico all the investment has been on the American side so they changed their constitution to open up to private sector investment but Iran like many other countries in the region still has a state model with a national oil company and that may be a limiting factor in encouraging enough investment in a short time. Yildiz we have a kind of love and hate relationship with Iran in regards to well politics I mean they have a different standing about Syria and Iraq and we have a different one so how does this affect our energy relations with Iran and what's your perspective for the short term relations in regards of energy projects sometimes I tend to think that we need to isolate politics from the energy sector and structure for instance we might not think alike when it comes to Syria with Russia or we might not see eye to eye with Iran when it comes to Iraq or Syria but Iran is a state and so is Turkey sometimes you come across such projects with such a huge potential you need to understand opting for one project does not mean you will completely exit the other project Turkey has projects with Russia and Iran and Turkey has always managed to keep them separate because the institutional memory of both countries are strong enough to find new ways both the Russian Federation and Iran are polite enough and so is Turkey to have these gentlemen's agreements we have on Thursday a meeting in Moscow where we will be talking about mutual interdependencies and I'm not talking about unilateral dependencies Russia is going to invest 22 billion dollars in Turkey and it also has an energy input to Turkey that's equal to the same amount in Iran there are 120 items if the sanctions are lifted Iran will be able to supply a lot of these 120 items it's even currently the second largest natural gas supplier to Turkey Turkey is Iran's largest export market therefore with its market and with its liberal structure Turkey is actually acting as as the most attractive hub we're not getting any any oil or natural gas for free we supply it from 13 different countries according to contracts this means all the differences in international politics can actually be balanced in fact we use it as an argument to balance and counterbalance political differences there are three pillars with three institutional structures and I think we have the capacity to overcome differences Russia is actually going through a map change after the Second World War do you believe that Russia is still a viable energy partner both for Europe and Turkey Russia will remain the cornerstone of the global energy system for many years to come so we may like it some of us don't like it but the reality is Russia will be a major oil producer gas producer coal hydropower everything a major energy country this is the reality of life one second however in the current situation with the sanctions over Russia it may well have implications for the Russian energy oil and gas which is the bulk of Russian economy so if as a result of these sanctions oil and gas production if they are negatively affected from the sanctions as a result of lack of technology access lack of capital access we may well see this to have significant implications for the Russian economy which relies on the energy revenues energy income for the country but these are issues for a few years when we look at the long term in strategic perspective once again Russia will remain the cornerstone of the global energy markets for many years to come okay so far we talk about oil and gas and geopolitical problems in the region let's talk about alternative energies this is something which is very very important for the whole world but also for the region Minister Ben Nasser would you like to tell us a little bit about your country what are the investment facilities or possibilities potentials in your country Tunisia so if we look at the cost of generating energy from renewable sources we have seen very nice developments the cost of generation from solar photovoltaic over the last five years has gone significantly down so this is opening up a whole set of opportunities for countries in this area that are rich in terms of solar and also wind energy so we are using that in Tunisia we have just passed last week a whole package of laws related to the rational development of renewable energy this has been adopted by the National Assembly with an overwhelming majority this shows that there is a very strong interest we are doing it obviously with all the transparency rules of the new constitution of Tunisia and this is an encouragement for investors to look at renewable in Tunisia as being both a way of producing internally but also exporting a renewable to markets around us and we are thinking about having a high voltage DC lines going to Italy this would be complementing the grid so it's a whole new area we hope that with this new law that has been passed on renewable in Tunisia since we are talking about the unlocking resources in the region what's your comment about renewable energy and new potentials I think it's an important part of the mix and the transition is a gradual one but oil and gas will continue to be 80% plus of the world's renewable energy needs fossil fuels overall for decades to come I think the key in terms of policy what does everybody need everybody needs to see security of supply absolutely low cost and balancing that with environmental considerations but I think you do need that balance I think Europe through DICTAT tried to go straight for renewables in many countries and the US has been able to make subsidies by the consumers and not only has it driven the cost up they are now importing coal and the emissions are going up I think the US has shown by shift from coal to gas and opening up to the private sector they've achieved those three core objectives here in Turkey further deregulating the market in terms of supply in the upstream which was a goal could help bring in more players and reduce energy costs the gas prices here now are probably a few dollars higher than Europe whereas they could be a few dollars lower when you consider proximity to the supplier looking to the Middle East region where the resources are the big problem again is the policy to encourage the investment and minister Beneser mentioned subsidies and that's not only huge destruction of value half the world's energy subsidies are in the Middle East a quarter of a trillion dollars a year of value is destroyed both from the producers and from the big consumer countries and that makes it difficult to set the right regulations to encourage investment to really develop the huge oil and gas potential resources which are there and still below the ground as Fatih Bey said and the price point is an important factor there in gas so I again think that Turkey could help unlocking all those if it ends up setting the price point then suddenly investors countries it becomes much easier it doesn't become an issue of politics it becomes a price, the pipeline the cost that starts to bring on more production the way it has in more mature markets such as the United States or now Europe thank you as a last question Minister Yildiz we know that the government wants to invest in nuclear energy nuclear power plants ahead also solar energy and wind energy are on the table but what else? I was just reading an interesting report recently that software and data can be a good source for energy because it can help to reduce energy costs and this is a new area to see potential or to invest for stakeholders is there any projects in front of you on your table other than conventional or conventional renewable energy plants yes maybe I should just add one thing to the previous question families corporations countries unless they manage to increase their revenues they must decrease their expenses if they can do so they'll balance out whether you invest in nuclear or in renewables oil and gas no matter where your energy comes from you must invest into energy productivity and in fact you actually make all these different energy sources your own sources Turkey pays 7 Turkey has a margin to save 7 billion dollars every year I'm saying this because by investing into renewables in the past 3 years and just by investing into wind Turkey has managed to import 1 billion dollars less in natural gas in solar energy as my colleague said material science is improving CAPEX there is going down which means the probability of investments goes up countries become more attractive there are 442 nuclear plants in the world and in 32 different countries half of the nuclear plants are in the US France and Japan I'd like to say that you can't have a shrinking energy sector in a country which is growing you can't lag behind in nuclear energy if you're growing Turkey needs to obtain energy from the nuclear field but by bringing in more energy via the nuclear plants we will be able to diversify we will also diversify by making better use of local hydrocarbon imported hydrocarbon renewables in that sense we will be able to differentiate and diversify our resources this is the correct policy this is the sustainable policy and if you take a look at EU members they actually we actually have more energy from renewables than the 28 countries average so we're doing very well in terms of renewable but our geographic location permits us to do even better whether in transmission in distribution or in production we need to become more productive we need to facilitate the life of subscribers we need to take the necessary measures which will increase our savings and IT will aid us in implementing the most optimum means with its new structure Turkey will try to make the best use of all these opportunities the International Energy Agency Mr. Birol they have drafted a very interesting report if I'm not mistaken 37.4 trillion dollars are foreseen to get 60% of the world's needs via renewing existing systems when we came to power a certain switch was perhaps 20 years now it's 32 years we didn't need to invest in the past but we have to invest now you need to renew your grid you need to renew your system so we need to understand that the energy sector has to grow in fact in Turkey it's growing faster than the Turkish economy just last year in installed capacity Turkish installed capacity grew by 11.4% economic growth was 4% that is to say supply of energy is outgrowing Turkish economy the main reason behind this is that per capita income in Turkey is increasing prosperity in the country is increasing and when prosperity increases energy comes along it has to come along we have to grow even more quickly both for Turkey and for the region we're going to be very keen on new projects I'm sure that we have many other questions to address but unfortunately Minister Tanayildes has an important appointment so he has to leave so I have to wrap up this session thank you very much Mr. Minister thank you very much for being with us Fatih Pirol, thank you very much thank you Mr. Jafar thank you very much again and thank you all to be with us to join us at this session our session ends here we looked at the situation in the world and the situation in Turkey see you in our next session good evening