 Hello everybody and welcome to a special interview with the artist really excited about this one today I'm joined by not one but two people So first off Andy Wardle, you've been on the interview before Andy welcome back glad to have you here, sir Thanks for having me again. What treat absolutely though. We're under slightly different circumstances today also joining us Your partner in well not crime is the wrong word, but partner in an amazing projects. There you go Henry, how you doing Henry steel? Very well. Thanks, but thanks for having me on and obviously both of these gentlemen represent the cult of paint Which if you don't know their YouTube channel, then I'm sorry for you. You need to go over and subscribe It will be in the description Please go immediately do that and watch all of the wonderful content that they're putting up But obviously they also teach they also Have a wonderful patreon full of a lot of deeper dive tutorials, but most importantly today What we're here to talk about is you gentlemen are running a little Kickstarter and it's got about a week left now It's it's successful. And so now the question is just what can we unlock? What additional goodies can we as the as the audience actually unlock? We got told that you it was by a Friend of ours that's helping us with the sort of back end of the campaign He was like look if it does well you need to start expecting people to be quite demanding with With unlock things and we're like, but we've only got so much stuff We can't like magic another model out of the end like well if it gets there you're gonna have to do something We're getting creative now. We've got we've got branded skateboards coming up. There you go That'll be exciting So we're gonna talk about the Kickstarter today, we're gonna talk about all of that We're gonna talk about both of you gentlemen. So where I want to start here is Before we jump into the Kickstarter and all that Andy we had it. We had a Great interview. I saw I feel like I know where you came from Artistically and by the way, I would encourage everybody to go watch the interview with Andy. It was fantastic Obviously Andy is an amazing painter. Both of these gentlemen are amazing artists By the by if you're watching live, you'll notice that right down here underneath me is a scrolling little Selection of images and this is all of the models Painted that are in you can get in this incredible Kickstarter. So check them out I've done by a wide swath of artists a couple of which we're done by Andy I think yours is actually up on the screen as I was saying that that beautiful like Samurai elf with like the long sword that red that insane. No dashi or whatever type sword over his back. Yeah gorgeous But Henry I want to ask you so How did you get into painting like what was your start? What what what got you into this hobby? So I think I did the the first time around thing like I think a lot of a lot of us in that sort of 30 to 40s bracket It was in into it as a kid I think a mate's older brother or something like that few years of that then the sabbatical and then I Had it. Oh, well, I came back in I was working in Germany and At the time like you didn't have Wi-Fi and you have all all that type thing So it was bookshops and DVDs so I found the Eisenhorn Trilogy in this German bookshop and they usually have like a small section of English language books and I was like, oh, you know I used to love Warhammer Still a nerd, you know, let's grab this. This should tide me over for a good few weeks And Yeah, and sort of at the very back of that it said Come in soon from the same author is Horace rising Came back in with a heresy and that was that was kind of it I think I lived it was the same time. We were just starting to get hobby podcasts as well So for the first couple of years my my returns of the hobby, I didn't buy a model or anything like that I just enjoyed listening to the podcasts played Dawn of War You know and that that type thing And then I moved with work and I think it was just that time in life Where I just didn't want to go out on to the pub every every night So I I started I thought, you know, let's do something creative always. I've always worked creatively and stuff I like let's why don't do some painting and stuff And as it was I lived About two minutes walk from what is now element games that the game store. It was got you before And that was kind of it and then yeah, just the creativity side of it I met Andy on a on a painting class And and so we went from there. We both love teaching Fort teaching decided we wanted to try and take it full-time or professional and and here we are however many years later With all sorts in between, you know commission painting competition Yeah, at the end of it. I'm a war I'm a nerd. I don't I'm Lord of the Rings. I love that too. That's about it You have a very tight limited Yeah, yeah, okay, do you actually I love that book but outside of that. That's it and then it's just yes Just the war hammers really a little bit of battle tech. All right. Well, I'm going to oh geez All right Well, you're you're I'm gonna resist the urge to dive down this rabbit hole of Dune and battle tech as you get I am a I am a more of a broad nerd You just you hit a couple of big ones for me there, but we'll pass by we'll pass by that We can chat about those All right, so How did you two decide like you said you met up at a class? How did you two decide to start? Cult of pain. What was like your initial concept when you wanted to do it now? I'll throw this back and forth both of you can kind of share your version of the story or whatever So I don't know we've done we've done some teaching already as a sort of Side gig I guess and at the time I hated my job so I quit and was like I need to do something and I Really loved the teaching aspect of it. I thought you know that that time in my life I didn't really have any other responsibilities So if we were going to give it a go we should give it a go and we kind of figured it needed If we were going to make this thing work It needed one of us to sort of be full-time on it And yeah, we just had a chat, you know, we both wanted to do similar things didn't we mate? We wanted to create miniatures. We wanted to teach classes that was sort of it and we were like well That's enough to run with And then just was decided if we were going to do it we wanted to do it as professionally as as possible You know make it look look as slick as possible provide as Professional as this as possible, which we didn't really feel there was that in the hobby at the time Gotcha that type of thing And just ran with it and it's just kind of snowboard. I mean, it's a lot of work Like it's a lot of work, but it hits it's pleasingly snowballing as it as it was it's building And you know, I'm sure we'll talk about them at some point, but the airbrushes were a really nice Way to get our name out there quite early on Yeah, that's one of the pivotal moments I think yeah, and I think this Kickstarter is probably one of them too because When we had discussions, let's do this brand cult paint like you said, I think we really wanted to Make it as professional as possible and and little things like having the branding as Contemporary as possible too, and I think hopefully that comes across in the Kickstarter because that's where you've been able to see The most amount of branding because there's so much stuff to see it's been a nice evolution Isn't it of the brand in that? Yeah, and we both had that vision and desire to Do a brand that does multiple things and we started with classes and when we were doing classes I don't think people had an idea what we intended to do and we did the the sci-fi range Which was super happy with but what's really great about the time right now is what we wanted to do You know a fantasy and a sci-fi range that's been realized as of this month So we're getting closer to I guess that original vision we both had and It's been it's been quite an amazing year actually isn't it for us as a brand because yeah We've done so many things that we said in those early conversations. They're actually coming into fruition now Yeah, and we we kind of had to Given everything that's gone on this year with with everything. It was that sort of sink or swim moment for the the business really and it was just Go a hundred miles an hour at it and let's let's try and come out of it all stronger Yeah, no, I want to dive into that for a minute. I think that's a that's a really good a really good point So obviously, you know, I I know I haven't been teaching much this year Has it really been the year for it? and I know that was something you guys both love and I do want to dive back into teaching a little bit later But obviously when that shut off, did you find this year has really been like an opportunity was it this Sort of was it this global pandemic situation that made you say, okay? We're definitely doing this whole big range as a Kickstarter. Did that help push you in the direction? Were you already those plans? The Kickstarter should have happened quite a long time ago like this. We started this particular project three years ago Yep It's been various delays including a pandemic So yeah, this nothing that we've done this year would not have happened, but it's Allowed us to I think it's galvanized us in in a way like we the business has gone been going well for a couple of years It's been steadily growing and becoming more established and and it's how you in our industry I think reputation is everything. Yeah, we didn't we didn't want to Go out the blocks doing lots of things not particularly well We wanted to focus, you know, we knew we were good at teaching. We done teaching we thought right Let's solidify that let's become, you know, one of the top Imperson tuition classes in the world. That's right. Okay. That's an achievable goal Let's let's work towards that. Okay now the miniatures range And then we always had this idea of YouTube and patron and private sort of digital tuition But this is just really it There was no better time Obviously, there's a much better times than now But there was no better time to see if those things were gonna work if there was a an appetite for them from people because there's a there's a lot of great online Resources, right? Sure And it was it was would we actually gonna add anything to that was was there any reason for us to do it other than vanity? But we sort of looked at it all and we sort of went, okay Well, we can compliment the live classes with this element of the YouTube and you know All those comments were always getting about what paints did you use? Well, okay? We'll do the YouTube for that then there you go. You can see what paints have used, you know patron was there for us to Not certainly go It's patrons a really nice way for us to interact with the sort of hardcore cult fans sure and That's been fun for us. That's I would say is the thing we're still Learning how to get the most out of you know the tutorials and things on there are lovely But it's it's there's I think there's a lot more you can do with patreon that we're looking forward to exploring Things like live streams and whatnot, right? Yeah, you guys have been doing some live streams during the Kickstarter with with you know painting going on and those been fantastic I'm trying to tune into them every time with where where work allows So it's all it's just fun you like you guys have a great rapport with each other when you're when you're both on there Which I think is good. Yeah, it seems like you guys have a fantastic working relationship Is that kind of where the partnership came out of you guys just got along and we're like, yeah I think we could work together and not strangle each other Yeah mindset similar isn't it but then I Like our kind of contrasting opinions quite a lot and It's it's very often that we have different opinions very often, but we always kind of listen to each other's reasoning and then make a decision and You know when we talk about later even with the Kickstarter what was really cool was when we're coming up with characters We really had totally different ideas, and that's why you get different characters, and I think that's great for me because I'm quite narrow minded in what I like so having somebody who likes for example dwarfs And I really don't like dwarfs is is great for a brand so well I can say that Two-thirds of the people on this show right now don't like dwarfs, so I'll let you do the math there as to Which side I fall down on Henry's left the chair. Yeah Now he's right. It's it's from I mean, I think literally the first chat we had about it We were wandering around Andy's hometown Probably off to get some pastries and some description and I think we said on on the that that chat if we were gonna do it We wanted to be brutally honest with each other from from the get-go You know we we both generally worked for ourselves as well as other people but often for ourselves for a long time for most of our adult lives and That that is in itself is a challenge So I think as soon as you were working with someone else that was going to be challenging And we just said from the start if there was ever an issue Just say it like and don't get upset right and it's meant that Very very rarely do we have anything approaching like arguments, which is from a business point of view is brilliant And also as Andy's just said For nearly every single decision one of us is acting as the Naismith You know one of us is always arguing that opposite point even if sometimes it's we both agree on it There's always that challenge. Okay, let's do this. Why you know, and I think it means we end up with a better products or whatever it is at the end of it bits um It's been a good it's been a good work in relationship generally. Okay, awesome all right, so I Want to come back eventually to Talk about some of the other stuff that's going on like you're I want to talk about YouTube and how you see that and what the content You see yourself putting out there. I'm a big fan by by the way Both of you have wonderful teaching voices You both sound so calm and yet confident in the way you deliver your instructions that it just feels like oh, yeah It's no problem. Here's what we're gonna do. It's no problem. So it's it's like it This is it sounds silly, but it's an important thing. It's a thing. I lack so I noticed it right away at any rate What I want to talk about though first is let's get into this Kickstarter. Let's start deep diving Where obviously you've mentioned you've done a couple sci-fi figures. They're gorgeous There's both busts and full figures that you've done previously Um See I suspect you knew you wanted to pivot and do something fantasy. How did you come to this? particular Project like what was the what was the inception of this right? How did we get to all of these cool elves? I'll let Andy take this and then I didn't tell you the truth. I'll tell you the truth. All right So in and out the shell I like elves the best So my my top three warhammer factions are wood elves high elves dark elves and I can't remember what the others are So I said Henry can we do a whole range of elves and he said yeah Got any different notes Henry as that's pretty close isn't it we um If anything the fantasy range was a lot easier for us to to decide upon than the the sci-fi range With the sci-fi range we We took quite a different aesthetic to just about anything else out there quite deliberately as well And I think it was quite challenging for a lot of people. There wasn't your generic Space dude and generic gw knockoff this that and the other type thing. I Think with fantasy you you've automatically got archetypes right sure so and Shit we think generally as well when it comes to these larger scale painting I think it definitely favors fantasy things over over sci-fi things so straight away We knew we'd be probably Get a gain a wider audience that would be interested in it The only caveats really was when I was like I want to do elves I was like okay, but we're not just going to make a high elf or wood elf and a dark elf but bigger And then that was it, you know, and we're like great and then we ended up with probably near enough 20 elf characters of which we're seeing five of them in this kickstarter Six of them in this kickstarter with the puppy with oh, yeah with the with wolf. Yeah, yeah wolf count Into it. Who's developed into a character of his own which is which is really cool Look the dog. Oh absolutely counts. That's a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, I Am quite sure that elf would count their dog as somebody they care about so there you go Hey, look closer at wolf is that's not a that's not your regular wolf right there. Yeah, there you go We don't know. Yeah Okay, all right, maybe it's a maybe it's a lady hawk situation or whatever is what I'm hearing here But it's like a lady wolf sir Yeah, something like that All right, so you did you did you but did both of you work together and sketch out the concepts Did you work with a concept artist because you said you had about 20 of them, which makes sense Sure, you had more than you, you know, probably we're gonna produce in a first run. So Um, it's essentially we we chat and go right. Let's have a wood elf a You know a baddy elf this that and the other let's have one with this weapon. Let's have one in this pose and I go Okay, great. Then I go away and Try and find a little bit more Character to them and background to them and a setting to them And then go back to Andy and be like, okay, what you think of this idea what you think of this Okay. Yeah, that's cool. That can be the spear one. Okay, what we're gonna do with that take it further until we had these these characters, you know with names and with actual settings and with Inspiration things like a mood board if you will even just in text and then we went to Concepts artists that we've worked with that we work with on our sci-fi range max Fitzgerald Which I think a lot of why I'm a people will be familiar with he's had artwork in the recent AOS RPG. I can't think what's called it soul bound soul bound. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah, it's a lovely artwork in there When we went through that transition period of of the old world into in stages Sigma There was I can't think it was someone created a tomb Kings book Yeah, Tyler mingle. Yeah Tyler wasn't it? Yeah, I thought so um and I believe max did a lot of artwork around that. Oh nice and Since he's he's you know, he's an up-and-coming and a few people will probably have heard of this turnip 28 movement Which if you're into the sort of grim dart Blanche itzu type thing It's his own little Strange creation Which is really fun. We've actually we're gonna have a live stream with max on Monday Where we chat him lots I was gonna do it as a pre-record, but I think having it as a live stream might be more fun so you'll you'll all get to see the wonderful character that he is and He we he was a known quantity to us, you know, we we knew and we knew that working with him He was good at translating our ideas And as it turned out he was because he then takes that and takes it up to like 11 and then we dial it back down to 10 and We got it. Gotcha. All right. I want to hone in though on these aesthetics, okay? one of the things that I love about this project that you put together is The aesthetics of these elves are not they're really not just like oh, yes, okay. It's a High elf or it's a wood elf, right like when I look at the visual language you're using with these figs Be at the full scale of the bus. It doesn't really matter because obviously they're the same people just kind of modified to fit the scale They The design of them is really interesting. So like the one that I've got here, which is this girl this bust I'm really excited about I'm not gonna attempt to pronounce her name We're gonna talk about these sort of Welsh influence names later at some point by the way and how you you've cursed me with the inability to say the name of any of your You're either the names of any of the figs in your range. Yeah, that's all right But you know, she's got these like heavy leathers and like all all leathers, right? It's just like she's very much Built in that sort of aesthetic where she feels kind of wild and all the patterns are very rough hard things right these hard leathers and stuff like that whereas the archer is All this like soft flowing cloth and movement Right and stuff like that. Everything feels very sweeping and gentle And then you look at what are some of like the more evil looking ones like I said the samurai elf earlier But like clearly doesn't have a more it feels almost like a non-western aesthetic with this huge huge Like I called it a no dashi. It's the closest sword that I can picture to it in my mind, right? and and like a lot of Like small chunky volumes of all these little armor pieces that are there separating it out Like where where did you get into the detail of all that? Like what what set all that in your mind? I'd love to hear about, you know, how you guys came to those homes, I Mean a lot of that work is done in the prelims so before we even go to the artists and Partly that comes from wanting There's a ton of background and lore to these characters that obviously we haven't spoken about but I think if you get it right then the design should reflect that the model has some of that if that makes sense and One of the really nice things Andy mentioned earlier. We often come at projects from different angles is he was able to I could go to him with this this idea for a an elf a Character, but he can also come in and say from a from a display painting standpoint, right? Let's use that model to Explore how someone could get better at painting skin Let's let's on that model that'd be a perfect one for us So like drape and the hunter model like let's use that to use loads of letters on, you know Let's let's have a you know because that will be great to learn to paint Leather yeah, and there's obviously, you know, we're planning on running classes when we finally can on quite a lot of these models because it's Why wouldn't we? You know, it's gonna be lovely to run the more classes we can on our own figures and We'll still do lots on space Marines. They don't worry But it's you know, it that's there's a there's an awful lot from from Andy in all of those models where he will have gone No, there needs to be You know more skin here less skin there that hair won't work those textures no go more for the soft textures That'll be more fun to paint So because at the end of the day, they can't just be 3d versions of cool artwork, right? They've got to be Cool models you've got to be able to paint them, right? I have a business with painting the name and not not produce things that are Fun to paint. Are we paintable? Yeah, no, it's such a huge deal I look at a lot of what people produce and you're like, oh, that's super cool art you made into a figure But that seems like it would be really actually painful or unpleasant to paint Like we've all seen those those figs at some point in our life right where and you don't want things to be Difficult to paint right like challenging is important But if you make a model that's difficult to paint then surely you're ruining someone's fun Right, there's a difference between challenging and just unpleasant because of the design, right? There's there's there's yeah I if I could give one piece of feedback to the to the all the people out in the world who design mentors We're doing God's work and thank you for doing so. I'm deeply appreciative, but it would be Make your figs more like what you guys have done here because every one of these Looks eminently paintable like when I look at the figure of a lot of them have a fairly open frame on them the the individual sort of materials or Volumes all look well expressed and it looked like yes, I can get that I don't have a thousand different little bangles somewhere that I'm trying to figure out what the heck this even is like Why is this here? What is this doing? Why does this fig need this thing? Right? so yeah, these these you have a Cleanliness to it is I guess the best way I would say it into into your sculpts that all come through Which I which I very very much appreciate That's the nice thing to pick up on like that's that Clean Aesthetic is something we try and carry through with everything actually not just not just the models So I'm glad that's nice that that's you've picked up on that. That's really cool. Yeah I think that what excites me about doing a range as well and we're saying about making them Nice to paint is being able to provide like support to paint them. Sure. So I was just I was just thinking about the wolf and It's got not much sculpted hair, right, which a lot of people won't be used to But we've we've obviously already put that tutorial out and it's really nice to be able to Offer tutorials to go with them because I think it sucks if you're a model manufacturer that people Don't paint your figures because they're Intimidate or something right? It's fine. We all have stuff in the drawer. That's not too bad But if they're not painting them because they're worried Then that would annoy me So I think that we we can do tutorials for them all to help people have a go. That's also really cool and Excites me as well Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I think at this point Do you have all of the tutorials covered for everything between YouTube and patreon with what you've unlocked or do you still have more to go? Not quite. There's a few more Few more to go. Well, then I think we know what the audience needs to do We got to push those stretch goals up So if you haven't already back the project get over there and back it and I'll know if you back it right now During the show because you all can't see it, but I have over on my screen I'm watching the little thing. I saw one person back right now, so I'm good. Whoever you were who's watching. Thank you. Well done Well done. Thank you very much So let's see let's see some more support here. I mean, it's so beautiful like you really Cannot go wrong. Yeah, I just want to this is and obviously My interest in this is just getting amazing figs out there for people to paint But I do want to share one thing of my personal experience with this So Andy was nice enough to send me the bust and I got it out the day. I got it First of all, so this is this is where I'm gonna talk about things that annoy me and how zero of them are on this bust Okay. Oh fuck good No, here. I'm so serious. This isn't just me blowing smoke. No, I look One of the things I love so much is when figs are well designed to wear Things like the gaps that might normally be there when you put two pieces together are so masterfully hidden And and this is one of those things you have this like whipping piece of hair Around her neck that just kind of adds some extra volume Here and helps circle the face first of all great aesthetic there to help kind of ring the face again But also just don't have to worry It's just some extra kind of coverage for that for that combination of the head to the neck joint The arms have these little bracer type upper bicep pieces on them slides right in beautiful I had to do zero gap filling fit like a glove. There was like no mold lines I mean, I think I may be scraped one tiny mold line off of this girl The cast was incredible Everything is sharp like all of the detail is Chris Okay. Yeah, I mean all of that credit really has to go to the guys at Big Char creatives Who did the sculpting and the casting for us? We've we work with them on the sci-fi range. They did the casting for us But we wanted to try and do the whole project with the one company for a few reasons really just lessons We've learned along the way But those guys are at the top of their game And so young as well comparatively, you know, those guys are are going to be Around hopefully for a long time the sculptors and they're already producing just phenomenal stuff as you as you said It's something we've tried to do throughout the whole process is Basically use the best stuff on the best people that we can get a hold of there's unless you're gonna do a Games workshop knockoff, you know 32 mil miniatures range. So basically for people to use as budget Warhammer sure or you're gonna produce One of these sort of crossovers we see now, which is sort of a ballgame slash miniatures game. Yeah Unless you're looking to do something like that. You're not Getting rich. You're not driving Ferraris and Lamborghini's being a boutique large-scale miniatures producer And I thought why I thought my road to wealth was fine So there was this choice of well as soon as you accept that I think a lot of pressure goes off because you can just Focus in on producing the best quality boutique product that you can and There's a there's a lot of enjoyment in that There's a lot of reward in doing that So for us that was going to the best people that we were aware of that could do it The cast that you've got as well Vince. We were really pleased with like that's not a master. That's a production style cast And then you resin is lovely like we couldn't be happier with with the actual Object object itself. Yeah, which is obviously really nerve-wracking You see it, you know in your mind in artwork in Z brush or whatever program they're using to sculpt it in lovely renders Oh my god, what's it gonna actually look like when it comes, you know in the in the package? Yeah, it's gorgeous So I again like it's it It blew me away putting it together and I am very excited to paint it as I as I mentioned you guys off-air before the show I'm finishing up like the last fig for an army and what's keeping me going through the army project Is this sitting here on my table waiting? This is like my reward for finishing the army, right? Like I've got her set aside as a treat as my dessert something fun to Nice getting a little bit painted Cleanser won't it as well exactly. Yeah, it's something completely different very different yes Just on the shelf behind me, but I think she's my next one as well. Nice. Yeah, I can see her back there Yeah, it's she's it's it's such a this dynamism Of that fig sure. She's got so much movement in her It's it's crazy. I love it I think I've got the scene in my head that I want to strike with her. I think so we'll see All right So Andy Here's yeah, I want I want to go over to you for just a moment here because I want to touch on on Something I'm curious about You said you had like 20 You know original Concepts, okay. Yeah Was there a concept in there that didn't make it in that you were like, oh, man, I really liked that one I think that like Yeah But They were basically there were ones that we both brought to the table that were like, you know It's our range together, but there were definitely ones that were like Henry's ideas and more my ideas and then we discussed them together for example The warrior the samurai was all Henry. So I didn't come up with that idea at all And it was quite cool because I ended up doing the box art for that and Not one of the ones that was more that I pushed more. Gotcha. So but Yeah, so for example the samurai was all Henry's like drive. We're gonna do this this theme around some Beatles and things like that and The bus you were talking about with the wolf was one. I really wanted to do. I really wanted a female savage warrior running with a wolf and So yeah, it was really cool that we both had our strong ideas and there were things We both really wanted to do like the woodsman the kind of foreign legs Yeah trees coming out. That was definitely one. We're both I've even compared him to a Ryan, which I thought was He would be great for a silver nephew army. He wouldn't be wouldn't he? But yes, so going back to the original question with the 20 ideas, I think that we We had all these ideas, but together we definitely made a joint decision, which are the first ones, right? And the most exciting thing for us about this Kickstarter is that it's been successful enough that we can Do more because not that we're pessimistic people But we were always we always put in the worst-case scenarios, right? So we basically have all these ideas we wanted to do some day and and more ranges and more sci-fi models But we knew that this Kickstarter had not quite a bit riding on it So to do the those other characters the rest of that 20 this had to work Which is why we're very very grateful because you know, we're really passionate about Making miniatures to make cool miniatures, right? I Want to do these because I love painting and I want to paint some cool elves and nobody nobody was making them So that's like the genuine kind of drive behind it But is that there's is there one we didn't make in this Yeah, but I think you'll probably see it in the next one. Oh, okay. All right. Keep it under your hat. That's fine By the way, just we'll keep under wraps for now. Maybe we'll talk about later. There you go. Fair enough By the way, two more people just backed. I want to say Matt Carroll put in the chat that he just backed full pledge Well done So the So Let's let's I want to I want to left turn for a second Let's talk about YouTube because you did put up the wolf tutorial on on YouTube I watched it. It was fantastic. Loved it. Okay, it's it's it was a great explanation of You know, I think people are oftentimes afraid you mentioned like having flat surfaces or non-sculpted fur When they get this concept of like, oh, there's this space and it doesn't have fur that I can just dry brush Because that's kind of how probably we all started with our wolves or dogs or other or bears or whatever Animal model was in our army when we started, right? And I thought you broke the process down really really nicely of just look you're just it's just making little lines Over and over and over. Yeah, that's it It's all it is just draw on lines and then you're shrinking them and you're just by shrinking it down You're setting where the light is it was such a nice Straightforward tutorial. I liked it. I would recommend everybody go check it out Because by the way that you're showing it on that wolf But I would point out that like there's lots of models out there in the world where that works Oftentimes you can do that same trick with horses Even in 28 scale I can still work. You might have to be a little bit thinner, but you can do it I think of things like that mine stealers for ranks or whatever. It's called from yeah GW the llama cat He has a lot of that same mix. Yeah, he's about the same size He's a same mix of like some sculpted fur and a lot of smooth area So there's just a lot of things out there like that that tutorial would be great for But I want to talk about your YouTube. It seems to me. I don't know Maybe I'm over reading stuff But Henry it seems to me like you might be a slight fan of space marines, especially the Horace heresy era space marines I don't maybe I'm crazy Okay, is it also the people that yeah, I think this is probably a bit more slap than the meets the eye Vince, but there's um YouTube is YouTube's there for people to be introduced to us really very rarely on YouTube, but you're gonna get a 15-minute plus tutorial or anything on there. They it's largely about recipes and Core techniques for for paint just in just enjoying painting I don't want to say casual painting because that's not what I mean by it It's yeah, it's always hard isn't it to actually come up with with the wording for that type of thing Yeah, it's pretty easy to say that the patron is there for the paint nerds the YouTube is there for people that are just enjoying paying and perhaps want want a recipe and they either don't have the time the energy the inclination or They they haven't their brain isn't wired that way where they can take a group of colors and go That's what that will end up looking like So that's that's what it's there for at the end of the day GW are the recruiter for this Miniatures painting hobby. Sure. Sure. Sure The better they are doing the better all of us will do because if they're just a gateway bringing more people in who didn't want to explore they're the recruiters right and their flagship models are space brains You know, we we we look back through our various social media things and you'll see whether that's personal or whether that's For coat of paint and you know, you'll have this You'll have this obscure niche little large-scale model that you've painted And you've adored every single minute of it and you pop it up there to share it with the world and you get 20 likes and Then you take some fuzzy camera phone picture of a working progress space marine base coat And it gets 500 likes You know You know this at the end of the day the Marines are They are the recruiters again to people getting into painting, but I think what we're also keen With it to show is These are just recipes. Yeah, we might use a marine model to demonstrate them on that's partly as well because Marines are very friendly To paint. Yeah, they're just each one. Yeah, just nice clearly defined shapes You've got some flat bits and curve bits some spherical bits. You know some cylindrical bits You know, there's not too much on them. There isn't armor So you've got nice large arrows for you can demonstrate different colors and recipes on and and they just work But no, we're super conscious of it We sort of in our mind have got a sort of a Marine to non marine ratio that we try to try to hit but yeah from a personal hobby point of view I'm a real big fan of the the Horace heresy series Have been for as I say, it's kind of how I got back in the hobby So I've always really enjoyed really enjoyed that So yeah, there are a lot of Marines I've often said the most and they will always be and there will always You know, it's why we did the wolf tutorial recently we did that nice tutorial on orkskin You know, we've actually been looking at a few of the upcoming releases and saying, okay What can we put out that will people will find useful for these these releases and wherever possible if we cut Can't if we can get away with not using a marine we will Yeah, so Yeah, I've often said the most popular thing on Instagram miniature like miniature Instagram is space marine legs There are more space marine legs on minute on this than anything else, but how do you both? because you both do the tutorials and So is there do you split it up? Is there something you're like, you know Andy is there particular things you want to share or stuff you want to get across Henry is there stuff You're trying to get across, you know, like is there particular things you really enjoy Showing in that format, right? Which is friendlier to maybe the shorter video or a more fundamental Spocused lesson something like that. Um, I think to be to be brutally honest with it A lot of it comes from how we can best use our time You know me and Andy have quite different personal lives and and commitments and It it works well where Andy can Pick a project for him to work on personally and then document it and use that to help teach on That's a good use of his time. I A good use of my time is is perhaps Being able to do things purely for teaching You know, I don't necessarily want the United Colors of Benetton Space Marine chapter on my shelf But I also am really proud of the library that we're a building on on YouTube for for painters to utilize so That's more where that one comes from. But yeah, patron really is is where we get to Just explore our own projects and go a bit more deep dive on them We discuss Everything I don't yeah talking about the wolf again, you know a conversation normally goes Okay, so what what we're gonna have a YouTube what we're gonna have patreon who's doing what and it's always that a Discussion so it's well back. We're both using your time But we were like, okay, so, you know, obviously the wolf Is painting it promotes the Kickstarter, of course But it's also a great technique video, which is you know It's something we haven't covered yet painting on hair and then that's gonna fit fantastic in our YouTube library And then yeah, obviously I'm gonna do a painted one. So we just work stuff out like that and then You know, there was things like I'm doing the lion for Patron right now and that's probably gonna be Six or seven hours of tutorial and then it was all for the Dark Angels release and Henry was like I want Dark Angels for myself So I'll do a Dark Angel recipe video for the YouTube and I'll do a Dark Angels dreadnought for the patreon and we just Like the models we just discussed stuff together and try and do something that's got variety But we we're into it too and then the patrons and the YouTube people get variety So it's just always a great discussion like that and sometimes we get a bit stuck and it's like Henry said sometimes We do it's not Marie not Marie So things like having the wolf miniature come out was cool because painted on hair is such a cool thing to teach and Got really great feedback on that which was so cool as it coincided being on our own figure Yeah, we just we're just always discussing and Always trying to think of new stuff and and trying to do it a little bit different to maybe what's out there? Nice But there's always got to be that view that that YouTube is our That's the way a lot of people are gonna Be exposed to us for the first time right So, you know, it will YouTube will naturally have slightly more business-minded decisions perhaps Made on it rather than pure passion projects Yeah, that's true, you know, it's all part of our thing of You know, we have the splat and then it goes straight in and that's pretty strong part of our ethos as well Is we don't want to don't want to fluff things out too much like just get straight in there, right? On their long waffly videos of us, you know, there's not that much editing necessarily. It's a lot more freeform Yeah, you know, well, I think that's also what you want to see in that kind of a long format, right? Because people want to see the decisions you're making the because I think the one of the one of the great secrets that I think a lot of people who get newer into the hobby or You know just start painting they're early in their hobby journey and they go watch YouTube tutorials and a lot of them You know, you cut together It's it's you do this thing and then we do this thing and then we do this thing and you just see like a Couple brushstrokes or whatever you see paint go on and I don't think people realize how much of often as you go on you You end up backing out decisions or choosing to do something different or refining something or just going back and forth like Reinforcing the same color on a leg eight times because you're not quite happy with how the volume came out You know, there's there's all these little touches that I think get obfuscated because of the necessity of shortening of time Right. Definitely. I think that's a real value of live classes as well We've always done very small Attendance classes wherever possible except occasionally at conventions But one of the reasons for that is we like to have people around us during a demonstration So they can see very clearly what we're doing, but also They'll see us muck things up in the demos and I think that can be incredibly Helpful as a painter. I know when I've gone on painting classes with people It's been great to see these these people I look up to make mistakes, right? But then to see how do they overcome those mistakes? How do they work around them? That's the because you're gonna muck up a lot. Yeah, it's finding out how you move past that not letting it derail a project and Moving on. So yeah, you're definitely right with that. I leave those in patron as well Yeah, I did such a bad one this week I had to paint like a rim of a pad and it's got like a 90 degree angle and the paint Just went on both angles this huge blob of paint and I was just like well, I'll leave that in It's like Can you stay within the lines? Nope. Yeah But painting painting art like let eyes or eye lenses and things that's always a a fun one Oh, sure. Absolutely. Yes, if you can nail that in a live class people think you're like The second coming. Yes, exactly Yeah, like, you know, I think it's hard on video Henry because you can't be that close to the mini, right? I so yeah, so speaking of that. I've been recording a An upcoming YouTube video and hours and hours and hours of footage yesterday It's just it's gone because it's not it's just not good enough and that is because it's quite a small part of a model That we are still getting used to painting on camera You know and I've got good eyesight, but it's perhaps still not quite as good as that So that was that's frustrating every day's a school day, right? So yeah Well, it's also a big difference when you have to hold the fig like this in the camera and then try to get that I daughter that lens as opposed to maybe how you would normally do it, which I think for me I don't know personally like I pull myself back sit very like right angle lock both wrist I'm way down here like this like I probably just went out a camera But you know like I'm way down there like that just so I can I can have perfect control The only thing is moving is like the last joint of my finger and you just can't do that on the camera You look like that golden demon illustration on the cover of the box I'm a bit more open now when I'm doing like a tutorial on patreon just saying Look, I'm gonna edge highlight all of these parts. I can't do that on camera because my head would be in the way So I'm gonna edge highlight these and I'll come back and they'll be done But you know you go along the line So I think and as long as you tell people that then you can kind of people get it in a tutorial, right? All I need is some kind of setup where the cameras directly over my face But yet I can your eyes normally yes in my eyes. Yeah, if I can get some kind of Shadowrun Johnny mnemonic situation just kind of some cyber eye cameras than this boy making tutorials is gonna get so much easier Yeah, you know be a joy For the 3d printing to be flawless and they'll print you golden demon models Roughly the same time there you go exactly a couple more people backed awesome shout out We just backed fantastic. Hey Emily. How you doing? Hope you're doing well over there What's that What minis did they go for I want to know because that's really we don't know right when you pledge on the Kickstarter You pledge for you know a 54 millimeter model You'll you'll get to pick it when the campaign finishes in the pledge manager part So we don't know what's been the most popular figures yet We've got an inkling from like comments that people have made but it will be like well We'll have a few quid or a pint or two on the on some bets. I think of what will be Is there yeah, I was gonna say so since some of you since as you mentioned like Henry might have had you know the majority stake in this one or Andy you might have had the majority stake in that one How are you betting against each other like at some point in the background like oh mine With that it's and this isn't just a lot it's like oh, no, we you know everything's lovely, but the That that individual ownership of them of the model for me. Anyway, it's never really been there I think when when Andy's mentioning it. It's it's in that very very early early concept part They spring into the party from that point on the mod all the models have Equal amounts of input in them You know, it can be as simple as me coming going I really think we should do a Samurai model and I reckon a beetle would be like a cool Spirit animal anthropomorphic whatever it ends up being and that's all I've come with From that point on to where he is now as a finished model is a collaborative process So I don't I think we try to list our favorites and Along with the other people that have helped us in this project as well in the background And I can't think of anyone who's listed any two people who have listed the same The same order of favorite models and we change our minds almost daily anyway at different point they've been my favorite so The executioner is my favorite concept 100 then easily just that silhouette next did with the snake and Sometimes it's been my favorite model It's probably like tight, you know, see the first or second anyway, but there's different. Yeah, there was different stages where a Figure was my favorite. So Pre-concept With the wolf was what I wanted the most. That's the one I want to be made number one Then when the drawings were done, I loved the executioner and then when we got the sculpting done, I Really liked the woodsman bust. I was like there's a crazy bust and When I've painted them all then I'll really know my favorite because there you go When I was when I was painting the snake scales for the executioner. It wasn't my favorite A few a few cross what's that message is during that time This bit for the seventh time it still isn't right. Yeah better but Yeah, I guess I guess it changes all the time but I love I do genuinely love them all and it's really cool That because bear in mind. We saw these models finished a year ago and I still Haven't got bored of them and I'm still like, oh, I want to paint this bust But I've got finished painting that one and so it's cool that I know I'll get around to painting them all eventually and It's quite nice that I haven't paid them all before campaign actually because then I can Share my kind of progress as people have seen them rather than keep them secret like the first two I did right, right? By the way, Emily said she's planning on the bust of oh gosh. Okay. Here we go here here here guard Yes, that's how I say it. All right the figure of Skewtend, yeah spots on give me this thing. We'll get you to do like the voice over Yeah, that's gonna be a winner for you for sure Just actually with my pauses in there this skew skew tend I guess that's sure. Let's go with it skew tend Okay, no, so that's Henry needs to do a video In his best marks and Spencer boys. Yeah Should we answer a quick question I've just seen in the comments since Yeah, I want to say two things on that one I we are gonna do some questions at the end of this. So if you've got some questions for I'll just drop them in the in the in the chat Yeah, please put them in there anything about the campaign or their channel or anything like that They're painting their classes all that stuff By the way, I'm sure the most common question is are you going to come teach in my area? Anytime soon and the answer is I'm guessing your answer would be we want to teach everywhere We can once this is all over any time we can as long as somebody can get a space that's comfortable in a game store That's good to tomorrow where you've got a good relationship. Yeah This year's taught me that more than anything and I was always scared about taking time off work to do these classes and If anything this year has been like when you've got the opportunity to teach your class and visit Some when you take every single one So, yeah, we can't wait to be back. Can we nah, it's it's still Fundamentally what what we're about, you know, yes, we've got a lot of fingers in different pies now, but Teaching is what we love doing and teaching to a small group of people in the flesh is still by far and away You know that the our favorite thing Yeah, and shows are shows and conventions where you teach and participate often the highlights It's such a good community man. Like we both game Not as much as I think either of us would like to but we don't tend to go to tournaments or anything like that But we we have that with painting weekends with paint competitions, you know, there's that same level of camaraderie, you know meeting This this unique hobby we've got where you can have good friends that you're making as an adult Which I don't think is that common given, you know, when I talk to my friends But also friends from literally all around the globe. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's pretty unique I know my wife's always like amazed at it. Like who you chatting to our son. So we had how did you meet them? Oh, I'm doing this. Oh, okay Um, that's actually really good. Yeah, I mean just having this little chat really It vints a bunch of times at conventions like in in England and in America which is cool. So we've both been to others countries and Henry we wouldn't be doing cult if it wasn't for classes. So It's it's brought up some amazing opportunities and it's definitely the that, you know, online stuff is obviously amazing, but the in face stuff is is Yeah, huge and really really missing it. So Can't wait this those classes are gonna feel pretty special. I think I appreciate it. Yeah I mean don't book on the first one. Obviously. It'll be awful Yeah, the infusion hasn't been through the roof. Yeah, 10 classes later. We are bored of this now The first one will be the best Henry. Okay Yeah, that's what I should have said. Sorry. Maybe you need to hit like I think I think Henry's thinking like the third You know, I try to get the third class. That's where that's the peak. There it is. Yeah, we've warmed up. Yeah, there you go That's true. That's true Don't worry. I've already thought about that. So don't worry. No, I I I know I'm I've been missing it so much. It's the same thing. I didn't realize how much I actually really enjoyed it and valued it teaching at conventions going and teaching two-day weekend classes or something You know, whatever until I'm not able to do it for Nine months basically or whatever, you know, however long this has been going on now forever. I don't know uh because You're absolutely right. There's something really great about sort of being locked in the room with everybody and watching everybody learn you get to go around you get to see them actually Start making progress right in front of your eyes And feel that positivity that they're taking steps on their hobby journey. And it's like It's incredible. Like it really is such a unique experience. So it's very exciting Is it's very motivating and you know being around other painters Regardless of whether you're Teaching them. I mean, I've I've had people on classes that are Significantly better painters than me other slayer store winners and things like that But they've come to learn a technique that perhaps I have more experience in so I'm teaching them on that but Being in that space with them and as you say Vince like people Just those little light bulb moments. It's very infectious. You know, it's probably Poor choice of word at the moment, but it's it's very Motivating, you know to to see and I will always come away from classes Wanting to paint more like, you know, two three day classes where you've got no voice left You know, everything smells of paint, you know, you've ruined yet another set of clothes You know, there's there's just paint everywhere and you all you want to do when you get home from this Five-hour drive or whatever is pain Yeah, it's a perfect description Uh, and your statement there of ruining another set of clothes is also why I always wear an apron Yeah, yeah It's why all my clothes are paint clothes now. There you go No normal clothes. No, it's just all paint clothes. Yeah Well, I mean in in this time when you're not going out much It's fine that you're it's always in your paint clothes. There you go Yeah, I mean, I won't lie other than the lack of classes my my day-to-day lifestyle hasn't changed massively. So there you go It's in it's in a cave painting Nice All right So, uh, we'll let people keep asking some questions. I've seen uh, some additional questions popping up keep dropping them in there But before we get to the questions what I want to turn to is let's talk the future okay so We know this one's successful by lacing a couple more people back as we've been talking fantastic keep it up guys great work uh the What I want to know is where do you know? What are your your ideas? Where do you where are you thinking about going from here? And I'm not asking you to spoil anything or share like this is definitely what we're doing or whatever like that Just kind of what are the things you'd like to continue to explore both in your figure ranges or or whatever well, um, there's there's loads of stuff really and um What's cool is the things we talked about years ago starting to get realized now And so the things we're talking about now will get realized We always we always get uh, do stuff. We say we're going to do um, but like I said earlier actually this kickstart is amazing for us and uh, people won't realize how important it is for us because it has solidified Colt of paint is going to be a miniature manufacturer and uh, do these ranges And day our guard is um, a broad fantasy setting So you're definitely going to get to see more of day our guard and you're going to See me happy with more elves and you might even see Henry happy with other races. Yeah But we'll go swimming with those little hairy women at some point. Don't worry um, but the The sci-fi range is something we're talking about a lot and I think One of the things that's really important to us is the the background and it's all There so one of the big discussions with us at the moment is how are we going to deliver the background and the narration to Uh, both our ranges, but the sci-fi one Um, especially at the moment, I guess so you know now we've got Confidence, I guess that people want to see what we do We'll we'll push further and and I think Like we were saying about the stretch Colt's Henry Um, we we want to do more stuff next time, right? And I think we'll we'll make sure there's more material for people to dig into Um, so from a a miniatures standpoint and the future there's going to be a lot from us, right? And uh, we are already pushing for the next ones Yeah So I noticed that you're the the the world itself that you're Pointing at between the names and some of the aesthetics clearly has like a bit of a Celtic slash like, you know, uh, Welsh type of influence there Yes, it's not even a bit really Vince. It's it's it's really quite simple. Um, it's it's just old English It's old anglo-saxon. Um so It especially when we were Working on the project initially, uh, the whole Viking thing was a Scandi Culture and aesthetics was was massive. Um, I guess we've just had the Assassin's Creed game. Haven't we come out? So it still is, you know, it's still very prevalent in in in society in sort of nerd society I guess or fantasy society. Um and elves You could argue Traditionally have had a a far eastern influence um, I think Yeah, I think that's fair to say as well but I just I was very keen For us it to have you know, we're from we're from England I not in a brexity way or anything, but I was really keen for it to have this this a little bit like how Beowulf or Lord of the Rings was done as this idea of an an an English mythology I just thought it would be nice for us to create day guard from that anglo-centric Base, you know, so the naming conventions are are just old anglo-saxon or old English Words and what they would very often do would take two words and smash them together and and create another word So day guard is is just wild land um It you know, and it felt succinct it felt like it explained what we wanted to do enough It was open-ended enough for us to Explore it in a in a in a deeper way and and as it's as it's gone on This this idea is developing more and more so of it if it's simply being an alternate mythology for our world as as we understand it, you know, were there these races that came before What was it like, you know, where does you know that the warrior is clearly this sort of feudal Japanese Influence you've got the executioner's got that very strong Assyrian influence, you know, we've got Other elves that have Central African Mesoamerican all these ideas. You've not seen those yet, but they're you know, it will all get explored in that way Um, and so yeah, the actual naming simply comes from from me Thinking about names for the characters and then looking at old English words and finding something that fits nicely nice I think what I mean, I I'm very excited to see where you go. I think one thing, you know, this is just me personally speaking for a moment uh I'm a big fan of sort of the the whole pan Celtic Lorca's obviously the Celts were you know, spread across Multiple different locations and as they split up like English Celts versus Irish Celts versus the Celts that were in France and stuff all had very different sorts of uh mythologies and monsters and And stories and things like that. And so I just I'd love to see that kind of thing explored I think I don't think I've ever really seen anybody In miniature form explore some of the great like Irish Celtic lore of some of their interesting unique Monsters and myths and creatures and that kind of stuff Yeah, that's super exciting and that that is again, so when when take the executioner for an example You know, it was me saying to Andy like why don't we What what would an elf look like if it had come from? Old Iran, you know or that type of thing and then Me going and looking into that culture more and their myths and their their history and then talking to our max the concept artist about it And he'd go and do more of a deep dive and he'd come back and be like all the weaponry used to look like this Can I do this and we'd be like no, that's too freaking weird Try and find something a bit less weird and he'd come back with it, you know Um, and that's that's how they come through. It's Yeah, it's just as you say it's yes, then the naming convention is is old English But that's purely down to the fact that I wanted us not to lose sight of the fact that we are You know an English brand, you're a British British brand Um, and at the time as I said, I felt like we were awash with this Scandinavian Right Aesthetic, you know, it would have been very easy to have gone that route with it Um Celtic, you know, and it will all mash in inevitably. I'm sure, you know, it's it's We're not looking to create An old world. We're not looking to create a Middle Earth or anything like that. We want there to be Huge amounts of Free reign for people to interpret these models how they like which is why you see one here guard bus being purple You know, uh, they're here got 54 mil that Dave Colwell did being this incredible kaleidoscopic You know, uh Fae spirit animal, you know, it's right. We would be enough Information to get to get people's imagination fired. I know some people You know, they admit themselves. They aren't hugely imaginative. They like to have that law To draw on and to inspire them other people are incredibly creative and imaginative with it We didn't want to get in those people's way. Which is why I said earlier. I think just because you can Have a wealth of of background to a setting and a character You don't always I don't think need to to ram that down people's throats You know, if it's there if it makes sense and if everybody involved in the creative process understands it You should end up with the model or you know miniature that That conveys some of that without you having to say Anything, um, you know, it's not just a another high elf We'll stimulate those people's ideas, right? Like if they think they're maybe not that imaginative, but Yeah Simulated and go, oh, I want to do this color. So you are imaginative. You can you know, you've got here's your canvas and uh Yeah, just stimulate that way. There is a danger, isn't there of going to sandbox with things You know, I think it was called that with Aegis Sigma. I didn't we like when it first drops, you know And now we're we're really reaping the rewards of that but initially I think for a lot of people it was It was too free reign, you know, it's too sandbox. It's what on earth is going on here What I need something to I need something I can grab on to right Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, it's about having I think you're exactly right. It always is a tightrope and The the great designs the good ranges what it'll do is it'll give you ideas It'll springboard your own creativity, right? It isn't just handing people a blank canvas But it also isn't handing people like a train that can only go to one place on the rails, right? Yeah, so yeah, absolutely All right, let's do some questions by the way, uh We're like one backer away from getting 10 backers during the show So I want to see one more person. Come on. You're all out there watching a lot of people watching One of you go back and the link is down in the description. You can click it right now. It's right there Uh, so let's let's get I want I want to at least get 10 backers If we get 20 backers, then we will have Vince record, uh A a small Short story that I live I will write about Just full of these words not the terminology and yeah Absolutely. Oh, that'll be it'll be a great comedy addition to the to the only in the stretch goal list. There you go All right, uh, so, uh, uh, Mikey says, uh, um You said you need a better than student grade oil to make a wash from. Yeah, do you guys have a recommendation on a brand? Uh, that's a brilliant question. Uh, and it's something I think as we're using oils a lot more now It's think it's important to talk about Um, not a specific brand, but any of your brands such as windsor and newton, dale arouni um Those are the two I know that you have in like hobby lobby and whatnot over in the states and we have back here in our Larger hobby stores. You just need the artist's grade Um version of it. Um It will end up being Let's say that the cheap one is two pounds a tube The middle one is four pounds and the expensive one is seven pounds, right? It's not massive differences It's also worth saying you buy one of those tubes of oil that are You know yay big It's very unlikely you're ever going to run out of it Yeah, don't be put off by oh my goodness. It's it's super expensive and and that's just when we're talking about washes Um, and that's simply because in those higher grade ones you have a lot more pigment It's more finely ground more of this paste basically so that when you as you thin it down to create a wash It maintains some of that integrity. It doesn't separate out And you get that horrible bitty grainy effect if you're just slopping oil on to do Grease and streaks and things like that and whatnot with then The the lower grade ones are absolutely fine, but for your washes you really do need Um, that the higher grade stuff Um, and we had a we had a traditional artist come on one of our classes who paints in oils Um, and he was sort of saying how a lot of the guys that do that for a living They they look at Windsor and Newton like I don't know like like we would look at Those crappy 50 pence paint brushes, you know compared to our series sevens and and things like that, you know But for what we do, they're they're absolutely fine. They're they're they're excellent Nice, that was a great on the Henry. I enjoyed that. I was looking forward to that when I enjoyed that one down I like oil paint. I think it's really cool. Um, I'm with you on that one. It's yes, it's It's I I mentioned before the show of buying, you know, all the paint racks and having all the paint I know we were talking about just, you know, collection of paints the ironic part is now as I use oils more and more I end up just having, you know, basically 10 colors that I'm doing everything with not the 600 acrylic paints I have around me Oh, I really need to paint One of our I think I might paint the here guard model in in just oils or predominantly in oils I think it could be really cool, which is also a nice remember Andy saying how In the large scale figures, um 75 mil 54 mil whatever The old boys used to used to paint in oils painting them in acrylic wasn't a thing. Um, so it's kind of nice to one of my funniest memories actually was When I was at monty santa vena, there was a An older guy, um, he was like a really unbelievable painter and he was like, this is acrylics And I'm like, yeah Like who doesn't paint with acrylics because we're in this world Where, you know, you get your games workshop paints you get your belayer But I remember I just remember speaking this guy and he was like this can't be acrylic What do you use oils for everything? It was it was great. I love that. That's awesome All right, uh, let's see deathcore says that when painting 28 millimeter you suggest to take opposite quarters when picking light sources What would you recommend slash thought process in the case of something like these larger miniatures and the busts So I assume basically how you're thinking about your light sources with these I think, um When it comes to light sources It just doesn't matter. There's no rule I think we we say the quarters because it's a a simple rule and when you're painting Uh, 100 marines 100 guardsmen for an army You don't think about, uh Um, the individual light source situation, right? Right? You batch paint you airbrush them from these same angles But when you paint a single figure you are obviously painting just one So your lighting situation can be, uh, bespoke to that figure So all you need to do is think about your, um, your vision what you want it to look like and that'll dictate, uh, how many light sources and what those light sources light sources are and that's also down to, um How confident you are so there's nothing wrong with having One light source on a figure from the upper right. That's it and you can make a figure look great. I mean, I'm painting the Archer right now Uh doing that for the live stream and she's just got a strong light from the upper right. That's it um, and I'm really happy with how it looks and it's just you just have to look at a figure and There's gonna be an obvious light source. Uh, that's flattering to that figure. So just Yeah, just think about what's gonna make this figure look better look best. Um, and there's areas where it's open and that's like, okay this open area that's where the light should hit because I've got all this room to paint it and You know, then as you you get more confident say you've done like 10 or 20 busts Then you might be like, okay, I'm gonna have a strong light coming from here And then another light with a different color from another angle and that's all just part of your Your journey and growing. So I'd say try not to think of any rules Um, think about what's gonna look cool and maybe just ask some advice from someone who you know Who's maybe more experienced, but it really doesn't matter. You can do any light source you want with uh with figures so I'll leave it there because we could talk for an hour on that It's such a huge topic and I'll say that these bigger scales allow you to explore light sources in a much more robust way And if you're really not sure about where to light it from just go to um You know go do a google image search for people for like human beings real people in the lighting conditions your You have in your mind because like there's all sorts of just artist reference images on Google or just people who take photos out in the world And so if you want like a strong, you know directional lighting kind of from below There's going to be lots of people lit by campfires and lit by other lights and art references and stuff They're just real human beings standing with light and there's photos of them and you're never going to get a better Uh, you're never going to have a better reference than just like how it works in real life You know, like that's always going to be the easiest way to look at it. So Let's do a youtube video on it. Henry. I'll do that. Sounds good There you go. There you go Uh, all right, Dave says, uh, do your sculptors Uh, do manually with a wireframe or do they work digitally with like z you know z brush or something? Yeah, it's all computer aided design. We um, we made the decision. I'll um when we started Yeah, sorry you can take everyone but I was going to say the same as you probably But basically, uh, you know, I mentioned earlier that myself and henry always had a A vision of trying to be contemporary and that's with the aesthetics. Yeah, the brand but we I love some traditional sculptors. Some of my favorites are traditional Alan Carrasco Valentine's act and they're they're traditional But we made a decision As a brand to be to go what's modern and at the time, you know, this is a few years ago Um, yeah, we just said let's go all 3d. So they're um, Yeah, they're all all 3d sculpted and that's allowed us to do things Uh, like produce hair guard in 75 mil as a stretch girl um because he's um In CAD so that's one of the amazing things Uh about doing it in CAD. So I think we'll always and only do Stuff with CAD but traditional still amazing Sure from a from an art direction point of view like we were Very heavily involved throughout the process and had it been with traditional sculptors I honestly don't think we'd have ended up with A project a product at the end of it. I think it just wouldn't have worked The fact that the artists were able to respond So quickly to our demands and our thoughts It just meant the process was it means we've ended up with models where we don't want to change anything Yeah, we needed it. It's wicked, right. It's quite relaxing to sort of right, right, right. Oh, there you go Um, there's not that niggling sort of thought of our wish we could have done that right as we wanted it. Um, which is great Nice. All right. Let's see, uh Go Mazzara, how do you balance your time doing the process of the entire production of the Kickstarter? Commissions the channel and of course painting your own minis. Yeah, let's talk about time balance right now I'm sure this has been a fun couple of weeks and work. Yes. Yeah We talked about it earlier, didn't we? Like I said, so so color paints my full time Job Andy has a has another job So when it comes to balancing our time, that's why I said earlier, you know, it works well where Andy can use his personal projects to also be Patreon or youtube or whatever like that But yeah, it's tough man. Like I think I think we all You know, all of us that work Find that that time is is is pretty precious when it comes comes to hobby It's one of the things we often talk about with airbrushing when people ask why do it and you sort of go well You know a lot of hobbyists, I think tend to be more time poor than Money poor if we're being honest You know, we could probably not buy another plastic kit and be all right but you know, it's Yeah, it is challenging and when you're when your job is within this hobby When you want to switch off from it, it can be quite difficult When that switch off time in the past may have been painting Right painting painting miniatures Um, but I I know getting a new puppy is a terrible idea as well. Um, but I found that not Not gaming has definitely due to lockdowns and all the rest of it I found that's definitely had an impact on On my productivity as a from a personal level, you know, I've not got tournaments to go to or anything, but there isn't It's it's quite hard to find Personal deadlines for me at the moment whereas it's a lot easier for me to find work deadlines You know, all right, okay, so I need to do that video for the youtube I need to do that video for the and you sort of for me anyway The personal stuff sort of goes out the window and it's it's something me and Andy chatted about this week, you know I want to address it And and get that that personal Passion, you know, or project just just ticking over as well nice All right Couple more we'll do a couple more quick questions and then we'll we'll call it a day So we don't take all of your day up because that's just mentioned time is a premium when doing all this So here we go Are there any techniques you feel beginners should really try and concentrate on after the basics? Like once you have the basics down, are there certain techniques you feel about are highly valuable? um I think we should both answer this one see what we think I'm I'm really passionate about doing the basics amazingly well, so I um I'll take one example Putting the paint on the model. Well, so one of my most commonly asked questions is how you how do you paint smooth or Or whatever and there isn't a technique like I don't I don't do wet blending Um, although I know a lot of people get amazing results from it, but when I when I find I get the best results It's just how well am I able to apply the paint and what I mean by that is Uh dilution Loading the paint on the brush how soft you're able to compress those bristles And I think that Is what makes a model Look amazing is when the paint's been applied Very very well, and then you know when you look at people like the heavy metal team stuff in the hand It's pretty crazy, and I think if you haven't held an heavy metal painters model um In your hand like this. I'm not talking behind a cabinet. I mean literally like that You really understand a difference. Um technical side of painting is and that's just yeah the application of paint. So I think There isn't a for me. There isn't a technique like if you said A non-metallic metal wet blending like a specific thing I um I love doing on the patreon really simple recipes But like how well can we apply this right like if we just use uh a citadel dark red and medium red and the light red Can't we can get ridiculous results like perfect results if we can apply the paint well, and I think people might Skip to trying stuff I mean I have it with my one-to-one lessons a lot people are trying things. I'm like Just layer the paint well try not to glaze glaze or wet blend Layer it perfectly, and you'll be surprised What you can get so um I'll cap myself off there and let henry. Yeah, no, I love it. It's real quick. It makes me think of uh so If you're a sushi chef in japan like in the formal training of it for the first several years of your training You're only allowed to touch the rice And you only work with you working with the rice like you don't touch the fish Or anything else you're just perfecting working with the rice and getting a perfect sort of role and everything like that because Perfection is the goal there right with the very basic thing Then once you've got that mastered then we'll let you touch the fish, right? It feels very similar. Okay, henry go ahead. I'm sorry. I like that So I think generally I'd agree with andy on that. Um, but to throw out Two more options. I guess Because I do really agree on that. I think Techniques and overused sort of word. I think everything's pigeonholed a bit too much Um, but I think largely painters often fall into one or two categories and this is true for me and andy is Andy had painting heroes and he knew what he wanted to paint like That gave him a very direct Root of okay. That's where I want to get to How do I get there? I don't really have a preferred style Um, I love the processes generally I love learning new techniques and learning new processes So I would say if you're someone who knows exactly where you want to do you go I want to paint like andy wardle. Well, I mean obviously just come on a coat of paint glass or Go on the youtube and the patron and whatnot, but by the day. I got box. Yeah, you know by the day I got box there sure easy and enjoy those tutorials But it you know, that's a bit flippant But it is a case of you know, if you can reach out to that person or you know Just look around look at similar painters and then you will be able to analyze from there What techniques you you should be concentrating on on the flip side Just learn as much as you possibly can and don't Pigeon hole techniques You know what watch someone who's a military modeler working on some one 35th scale tank or whatever you might not give a hoot about That style of hobby But I guarantee you'll learn something if they're a good teacher or whatever that you'll learn something interesting Which you might be able to apply Um in other ways and I think you know dry brushing and washing You know, I I dry brush Still on a lot of models. It's a perfectly valid technique. I hate this idea of it things having a A beginner's tag or a right a base tag as if you know It's it's really easy to to be good at it. Like Andy said, you know, you you consider base coating to be a beginner's thing, right but There's a world of difference between a well base coated model and a not terribly well based on that on our class Don't we Henry the struggle with the base coat? Yeah, right hit challenge. We go Vince. We say Right, we're gonna base coat this model Can you do it perfectly and it's it's funny when people go? Oh, yeah You just listen to that that resentment in the room of them going I paid how much to sit here and base coat That's it model like what the hell am I learning? If you can base coat, right, let's see see how your base coat looks So it's an important it is a very important skill. All right Uh, last question. I think we kind of talked about this a little earlier But it's it's maybe worth repeating which is uh when sculpting a model for painting What do you adjust for more? Do you adjust for more composition or actual brush to model if that makes sense? Yeah, so I think this speaks to we talked a little bit about this earlier Making the model for the painters. Who are you favoring there? Right? Yeah, and we've dismissed models that have been Uh, really really cool 2d artwork great poses, but you just gone how on earth you're going to get your brush in there Don't don't work or the the the other practicalities of how they're going to sculpt that You know, how is that model going to um hold itself up? What what like you said earlier vince, you know, where are those? Join lines going to be um all that sort of Or it's going to snap Yeah, yeah I guess 50 50 ish The sort of one and the same to be honest Um that the composition if the composition is good then It'll be easy to get to it with the brush and vice versa Makes sense Well gentlemen, thank you very much. Thank you to everybody who watched. Uh, thank you for all the people who backed Keep that up. Uh, I'm so glad to see so many people backed during the show If you haven't yet the link is down below Click that link the figs are all amazing. You've been watching them scroll by there's so many awesome options in here I am personally really excited to see what you guys do next I'm excited to see if you could make a dwarf at some point time in the future that I would actually want to paint Uh, it would be accepted. Yeah, that would be the first dwarf. I've paid it in my well second I can have two dwarfs and me vince So if if henry make us like it then uh, it'll be good, right? Absolutely. That's that's the mark You know, you've hit it henry if you and i both want to you're both going in the book You know, if you flip open the book of grudges, you're I've got pages dedicated to be henry. It's fine. I'm good I uh, I've been doing nothing but lumping hate on the dwarfs for years. So I'm sure they've I'm well recorded in the book Uh indexed and cross-referenced. So but gentlemen, thank you so much. It's been great talking to you today. Thanks for having us on but Absolutely and uh, we're really excited to see you, uh paint the bust Hmm. I can't wait. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be it's it is the project at the top of my queue and uh, I cannot wait to just sit down and spend a lot of time carefully base-coding I'll tell you uh, I'll tell you a funny story about that before we go. Sure because uh, I had very very few models left When when I said uh, vince, would you like a model? And so I tentatively asked, uh, you know, which is your favorite and I wanted uh To know which was your favorite Not out of the very few I had right when you just said like, you know, whatever, you know, which one's your favorite Yeah, exactly. When you said it's the bust, I was like, oh Goodness, I have that one. I only have three but that's one I do So, uh, I was uh, I was really happy about that that you got the one you like the most Absolutely It was the one I was most hoping that you because I figured that could be the case You don't always have you know when you're talking about early pre-ship It's not I was like you've got a ton of them and I was like, well, I that's why I gave you two I was like and I was the one I listed first was the one I really wanted and you were like, yeah, I've got that. I was like, yes Score. Yeah, I was like, oh, yes But that that was great, but uh, yeah, thanks. It was uh, it's always really fun to talk to you and um Looking forward to those classes and conventions and uh, do this in real life. Absolutely I cannot wait to get back over there over over to England and see you guys or have you guys come over here Uh, I think we're all ready for this to be over. So with that Uh, we can't wait to see you in person. Uh, very much miss everybody For all of you out there watching, thank you so much. Give a like Don't forget the kick starters down below call to paint youtube channel will also be linked down below Go sub there as well. Um, their patreon information will be down there if you're interested in that also Basically everything you need it's down in the description. Go check it out. Do the appropriate stuff But thank you very much for watching really appreciate it and as always We'll see you next time