 Actually, I'm not even going to use that because that won't work for me Everybody my name is Peter Puglia. I am a senior estate with Microsoft. I've been effectively driving OpenStack into Microsoft for just about the last three years Been a Microsoft employee for the last year and a half And you know, we're here today to discuss Microsoft technologies and the OpenStack ecosystem I'd like each of you guys want to introduce yourself My voice I always get told I'm too loud, so I'll let the loudness work for itself today. Okay Check and hear me. Okay, perfect. So my name is Alessandro Pilotti. I'm the CEO of cloud-based solutions We are actually actively working in the OpenStack community In contributing quite a lot of bits starting from the Hyper-V driver up to the cloud-based unit which is the Windows Club unit we work on crowbar and Lots of other areas which are strictly related with the integration of Microsoft technologies in OpenStack My name is Joseph George. I'm the director of cloud and big data solutions at Dell the I'm also on the Board of Directors for the OpenStack Foundation And we've been a part of the OpenStack movement since 2010 since the very first day that it announced We also have a few solutions in market today On OpenStack. We also run the crowbar project That features the deployment and provisioning for OpenStack as well as some other technologies like Hadoop and Ceph and we just recently announced some work that we've done with with Suza with Microsoft and with the cloud base Unenabling Hyper-V as part of our Suza cloud partnership with Suza to for OpenStack Hello, hi guys, my name is Georgiy Okrok-Versov and I'm a program manager in Mirantis And I'm leading two projects named Murana, which is Windows for the OpenStack and Mistral, which is recently announced as a workflow as a service and my primary role in the Mirantis to talk with our like enterprise customers and non-enterprise customers who usually wanted to run Windows payloads on top of the OpenStack clusters And I'm Doss Kamhout, principal engineer in Intel IT And I run cloud infrastructures and consume cloud infrastructures and everything in between So I figured we'd start off bringing Windows into an OpenStack environment Now obviously each of us have sort of different areas that we're focusing on there So if you'd please, you know, I guess start with What it is exactly that are the key components of Microsoft technologies that you're addressing in the work that you're doing and then maybe give a couple statements about some of the key areas that you see as primary challenges with enabling Microsoft technologies in the work Okay, so I guess we can start with Doss, you want to start from your side? Sure, okay, so so in Intel IT we have a fairly large infrastructure We run a design grid, which is about 60,000 servers And this is this is mostly an open source environment and then most like most enterprise shops We we run a traditional IT environment which has quite a bit of Windows infrastructure You know active directory like like most enterprises have a Kerberos authentication And and plenty of Windows guests to run various applications And we also run actually two private clouds, but our reason we're here and reason I'm here is we run an OpenStack private cloud that we've been running for the last couple years So for us the integration points are mainly a keystone backing to active directory So obviously we already have identity existing in our environment So we want to reuse that and consume that and that's that's working actually pretty well And then obviously the guests so we run quite a few guests and like most shops We have a lot of .NET in our environment as well as other programming languages So having Windows as a functioning guest that can be controlled Is pretty key to us. We don't use Hyper-V yet in this environment I actually just found out that there was a Hyper-V connection So for us it's really about to answer your point Peter How do we make sure that that Windows and Microsoft technologies Work really well on on top of various OpenStack options Whether it's on various hypervisors that we would choose or bare metal So can it be controlled very easily if you look at even things like heat And a lot of the next generation things like I just sat through a docker discussion Most these are really built towards Linux initially So and generally what we see in the community is not a strong leaning towards The fact that enterprises do run a lot of Microsoft So so it'd be good to see more focus there from the community And glad to hear that you guys are taking a good part on the lower Hyper-V level And then secondly a realization that we do have a lot of Kerberos active directory And making sure that's just a systematic component that connects through I just have a question about your usage of active directory with this Sorry I'm currently using it for both of these roles Yeah not two roles yet so right now we basically and we will Right now it's just based on environment and tenant So and actually we back it with with OpenDJ Which then actually connects into active directory So you know I just want to make you own two active directory via the LDAP drive Excellent it's in trunk nice Yeah it's been there So beautiful Yeah it just uses the native LDAP driver So you might want to check that out and give you some quick feedback Hey thank you We've stumbled into a customer conversation between IT and Intel and Microsoft Yes Hey so those are a couple things I'll cover now We'll umbellish more later But yeah yeah let's do this Yeah so from Miran's perspective what we see That there is actually a huge demand from the customers To run workloads windows workloads on top of OpenStack And the typical challenging area is to actually enable all Microsoft features Working on top of OpenStack The typical example actually is Microsoft clustering So Microsoft clustering is very like huge feature Which enables you to create fold tolerant configuration and windows services But it simply did not work on the previous releases of OpenStack Just because of virtual IP assignment for example So by default Nova driver does not allow you to use like any virtual IP Which is not assigned by the Nova But usually you do not assign it from Nova And it was fixed actually by some quantum I'm sorry like right now it's Neutron But more by Neutron Committing Havana So right now at least you can use Microsoft clustering With using secondary IP feature in the Neutron And right now you can run Microsoft filler cluster configurations on top of OpenStack But of course there are a lot of different things So first of all you have to prepare specific windows image to run it efficiently on KVM Or if you wanted to use Hyper-V then you have to use specific images And thanks for Alessandro So he has windows 2012 image published on his site So you can just download it and try to use And it's already pre-built for both KVM and Hyper-V And I believe for Xen And for Xen as well So and this is from like operational perspective But also we see that there are lots of problems with Windows configuration itself So typically when IT department installs OpenStack privately There are lots of end users who wanted to use this OpenStack And right now what they can do They can just spin up a VM And then they should go and configure those VM And install all the components manually And usually it's painful So in Mirantis what we did we created a service named Murano So probably someone is familiar with that And right now we are trying to simplify these painful stuff And we provide just a simplistic UI Where you can literally like drag and drop different Microsoft services And then deploy it with one click So this is one of our approach to solve this painful problem With Microsoft Windows configuration Yeah so at Dell we actually have a really unique perspective In terms of the customers that are approaching us So in addition to us participating with a number of the Actually everybody on this panel On enabling Hyper-V with the crowbar project That we own and that we're leading But obviously it's not just Dell exclusive We also have the privilege of servicing customers That are not ready yet to consume OpenStack In the way that it's available So it is very much a development environment now It's very much developer oriented You have to have a certain sophistication to use it So we have customers that are very well acclimated To how Microsoft does its private cloud business Just in general and how VMware and others run their private cloud businesses They are watching what's happening in the OpenStack world Yet they're not able to consume it In the way that a lot of us in this room are So one of the benefits that we hope to provide Is to help start bridging that gap What are the tools, what are the best practices What are the services that we can What is the training that we can offer to those customers To start bringing them a little bit more over Right now a lot of us in the room And I actually believe this as well Look at how these large scale public clouds run their clouds Right, continuous deployment, automation, distributed architectures Those are still relatively new concepts to the mainstream enterprise And so in addition to us trying to bring those concepts over to the mainstream We're also trying to figure out what interim products What interim services What can we do to help enable those that are very comfortable with Microsoft products What integration points can we offer And how can we make them more comfortable to understand Some of the new cloud tenants that come with OpenStack Right, and the new applications that need to be developed So we look at it from both perspectives Which is actually, it's a good thing for us to be in So I would say this is a step from pure infrastructure layer to more platform Right, exactly So I would say that the challenges that you're facing Can be divided into two categories Two technical and one cultural We have let's say a quite unique opportunity here to do the fact that we speak On one side with a Microsoft community Which notoriously is very Linux oriented And all the Microsoft is using the open source community Yeah, okay, sorry I think he's always a little bit ahead, you know So, and now the other side of our customers Which need to move specific Microsoft oriented workloads on top of this OpenStack environment, okay So I would say the first two technical One side is of course on the hypervisor part And that part is basically done I mean we did a lot of work starting with Folsom In enabling Hyper-V as a top class hypervisor inside of OpenStack, okay So if you take our bits which are part of Nova Part of Neutron Part of all the major components Of course in OpenStack You will be able to average all these features that Hyper-V is currently offering, okay One important thing that quite a lot of customers Or users still don't How can I say Don't consider is that the Hyper-V is a free Absolutely free environment that you can choose on a hypervisor, okay You can of course go also with the Windows Server option, okay But there is quite a large user base that still consider Doesn't consider Hyper-V as an option Because they think that they have to pay for it Is that true? Okay Hyper-V is a virtualization platform, right It can be part of Windows But it doesn't You don't need to have full-blown GUI You know like most people don't understand that it is a slimmed down strip Hypervisor only functionality and you can provide all the hypervisor functionality In the hypervisor for free And when we say all the functionality It means that it's not trimmed down like maximum a given amount of RAM Or you don't have some features like line migration It's everything there, okay So The second part is related to the Platform as a service if you want or anyway as they Is related to Windows as a guest operating system, okay That's the area in which we are particularly focused today So for example some advertising here at five o'clock five twenty to be exact I'm going to have a session Showing how to optimize Windows workloads on top of OpenStack So on top of KVM on top of Hyper-V or whatever, okay Mirantis for example is doing an excellent job with Murano In enabling and simplifying all these challenges The reason here is that As it has already been said that there are Solutions which are pretty much Linux oriented, okay Our task and our job here is to take them And make sure that they work in the best possible way Also with Windows, okay, that's what we are doing So for example we are creating heat templates for Active directory for SQL server for exchange For a SharePoint, you name it, okay And with that in mind that should solve actually What are right now they let's see how to sync with this between the OpenStack Technology as a wall to say so and the Microsoft related infrastructure world, okay The other part I was saying is more cultural OpenStack workloads are Typically what are referred as cattle? I don't know if you're familiar with the cattle versus pets Terminology cattle are Virtual workloads which can be simply Shutdown and restarted and deployed without affecting the application as a wall to cut it very short, okay Think about a web application in which you have 50 nodes, okay You get to I don't know black friday and you need 200 You just spin up another 150 machines and on the next day you just kill them. No problem. Everything works Okay, the scale out very very easily on the other side Quite a lot of our customers which are using Microsoft technologies are trying to bring Workloads which are like exchange applications SQL server or SharePoint or solutions which typically don't scale in this way Okay, they are more similar to what are referred to pets now Um, and this is actually related to what gotcha was referring to with clustering Okay, so one challenge that we're facing now is bringing the Microsoft cluster concept, okay So failover It fell to full tolerance based on the concept of clusters inside of the open stack environment That's actually one of the big light motive. We're going to have in the next month First is the I would say is the typical scenario of a Microsoft workload. The second would be the sort of the Windows it pro and their lack of dev ops mentality experience because a lot of the guest level of what we're doing with Heat Toronto All those things are enabling dev ops on top of the guest platform essentially and and You know from a personal experience. I've been doing a lot of work with with puppet on Windows as a platform and one of the things that we find In the dev ops community is that there is not the richness necessarily of You know modules or recipes For windows, so I can agree with you that I think there's an education Barrier that might that might exist At this layer. How do you think we address that? What what's the best way to address the cultural change because essentially what's occurred in the industry is a cultural change around the paradigm at which we run Our infrastructure, right? How do we address that for the windows? Joe sure And I think you really hit on the the none of the topic right the reality is that Um, we you have windows certified engineers. You have windows certified admins and uh for the longest time You know and if you think about key tenants of cloud I mentioned continuous deployment that notion really in the broader enterprise really doesn't exist, right? It's a version it's a version to version Certification and validation and that's how that's how upgrades are rolled out in the largest scale clouds It's when when updates come out it gets rolled out and it you know, they're tested and they're on You know on build servers. It's it's a very different model. Um, I I honestly think Um, we as vendors and those of us in the community I think there's a need to actually build like I said some of these best practices. I think we are To some degree kind of ignoring the cultural problem that's out there I think the tool sets are starting to emerge But we are we're still can we're still acting like they are dev ops oriented people that we're just giving them Microsoft tools and I think we had realized that they are they are microsoft experts They know what they're doing when it comes to microsoft tools microsoft processes But we've not given them the tools to actually come over to this side of the of the of the change So in terms of what we can do, I think education is a big part of it Um, and I I think there are ways there these are there are tools There are shims there are middleware things that we can do to start enabling that The crowbar project I'll just take a second and talk about the crowbar project was intended to do that We actually introduced it at del a few years ago To start training our customer sets of how dev ops works of how this model works of continuous deployment And the notion that there are problems that they encounter I'll just say a lot of my other partners that also do cloud technologies when we actually go on site And do installations You know this whole notion of cloud in the box and I don't want to get political here for a second But that's a that's a difficult notion for me cloud cloud in a box just because I've been on site multiple times and Routinely almost I can say almost a hundred percent We'll go in there and the customer will have a set of decisions already made About here are the here are the network configurations here the ports here the uh, the you know the applicants we need to plug into We deploy it and it's it's wrong. It's not right Um, and it's not because the customer is wrong It's because we just don't exactly know what it's going to be like until we get it and do it once When you have a continuous deployment model That's fine because you can deploy it once you can see where your major mistakes You can tear it all down and you can redo it just in a matter of hours and you'll be back to where you started That's not how traditional it is really run. So I think products like crowbar into some degree fuel as well And you know others that are out there. It's a bridging technology that starts saying look you need to look at how these tools Work because it tells you how the future of architecture is going to work And I think it is small steps like that that we do at a rapid pace with small steps that will get people there That's my that's what my thought is Yeah, I'd say it's not really a Microsoft windows problem. Uh, if you look at Microsoft windows, if you know anything about uh kernels, you'll find it's it's pretty darn similar to linux And uh, I was around when uh, monad was started which became power shell um And uh, this was brought in by a team based actually by a lot of input from intel Uh, uh quite some time ago to to make uh windows a highly scriptable highly scalable, uh operating system So You have two types of people you have uh, we call them the the next next finish people Which is uh lazy sys happen. By the way, how many of you run Microsoft in your environment today? Whoa, what do you other people do? How many run linux in your environment today? Okay, so um my point is uh And when you talk about things like exchange and sequel clustering that that's an app level problem So you can you can take microsoft today and you can write uh stateless applications that scale horizontally There's nothing inherent about the operating system. Uh, where you run into troubles is uh, is actually it's it's just it's an overall issue We call it a traditional enterprise legacy apps They're built for for scale up by the way We've got to do something about the pet and cattle discussion because as soon as we go to india It's not going to work out very well But Right exactly I don't eat beef. Um, but uh, but but fundamentally this is this is and that's not even actually a microsoft discussion That's that's applications that have been built you have applications on linux today That are built from a concept that they cannot handle uh failure of the infrastructure They do not scale out horizontally. They're not stateless. So, um, you know, I totally agree It's a change to uh to sys admins. There's a lot of sys admins in enterprise it shops Regardless if it's linux or windows that are trained to deal with next next finish linux gave us an opportunity To to approach it slightly differently because everybody came at it from from a scripting perspective You learn the code. You know the code you survive on the code You can't really do that with the operating system that's closed or with applications that are closed But this uh, it's not just uh, uh a windows problem. It's it's It's much broader So, you know, I guess you know, I should probably agree with you. Let's ask that question for all you guys that do linux today How many of you look into the kernel code? What that's nice. I only have like five people on my it team that that can do that, but uh, it's rare So, uh, it's it's pretty correct. I mean the fact that we have a An application workload problem and not a platform problem is absolutely correct Um, I live actually in breathe through the two communities. I'm a microsoft vp on one side Where they see me like the linux guy, okay? And uh, uh, I'm of course, uh, working a lot in the open stack community where they see me as a microsoft guy, okay? So it's pretty fun in the situation. Anyway, I can see what nobody likes you. Yeah, exactly So the main idea is that those group of people even if they are converging very slowly, okay Are still different and for a couple of uh, let's say generation for other generation They will still be like this, okay? We can just ignore the problem and say, okay, the future will emerge But it will mean that we will just miss the next like 10 years probably, okay? Or we just try to figure out a way to make both of them happy for example in our The installer for the hyper redriver is made in a way in which you can make happy the next next finish people Because it's actually prepopulating all the I don't know glance Rapid parameters and everything for you. You just have to fill in the values and press next, okay? But on the other side when it's finished, it's a fully blown python environment that you already know on kvm Okay, it's just wrapped in a regular windows service. So again the windows guy can just say Stop service start services on The the python oriented devop can just go inside of the Python code and do exactly the same things that they do on kvm, okay? So that's for my opinion the way for approaching making them happy on both sides crowbar is an excellent example Of another approach to solve a problem because you're hiding All the or most of the complexity, okay? It's gorgeous the fact that you can say I just want to have three hyper v nodes there to kvm there one controller over there Okay, and off you go So most of the people out there are simply scared of changing their technology for structure, okay? They don't have anything against it, okay? We are very far away from the ages of you know microsoft evil empire Linux just a bunch of hikers, okay both of them make a The solutions make great enterprise solutions on one side and customers on the other so We have to work with both of them and make them happy on the on the same side Another thing that scares people just to finish his licensing but I think we're talking about this later. Yeah, that's right Yep, so from my perspective, I believe that's right now. There is a biggest problem in the attitude because like when you spoke with a typical like OpenStack engineer He will say that OpenStack is for like cloud aware application and I believe that's that's wrong because OpenStack is a is a like platform We should be suitable for any workload for anything And actually what we need to do as a community So we need to change our view on the things and we should understand that OpenStack should be really open to any kind of workload like pets or cattle. It doesn't matter. So OpenStack should be suitable for everything and everything should be manageable and usable independently on the operational system and I believe that's I see a demand that's more and more Enterprises they using actually mixed environments. So they use linux Where it is suitable. They use windows When they have like some specific applications and That is the right way to do so. We should not Stuck with one operational system. We can we can leverage the benefits of both different operational system But we need to make sure that OpenStack itself is like is agnostic to operational system. So So there should not be like second class citizens So I agree from a personal perspective so in windows and linux interoperability and One of the things that drew me personally to OpenStack was the promise of ubiquity Because as a cloud platform, you know with networks for a long time, we were looking for network ubiquity and we achieved that With OpenStack, we can achieve platform, you know, virtualization cloud platform ubiquity through open stack, right? And and as you said, there's along those lines, there's also internally as you've seen in the course of this cycle challenges with Keeping ubiquity as the focus of the project, right? So what do you think we can do to encourage? as you said further Adoption or understanding that windows can be a first class citizen both above and below the control pane of OpenStack, right? How do we encourage? You know our customers to Break through their their fears and start consuming this great work that we're doing and also encourage the The open source community that we're part of that this needs You know the level of attention that it deserves and needs the the support from the community that you know to continue forward So I guess what are your opinions on those? Well, I start this time uh Well, one important thing will be of course if we can somehow merge a little bit more the communities with microsoft telephone this side of course Some people believe that OpenStack is in strong competition with system center. For example or with asian It's not for my opinion. It's just fitting another niche another completely different area Okay, we can ergo cause of on this assertion, but That's what how most of the people feel it generally um The other thing is that our job here as Uh, software developers as experts in the in the domain and so on is to make sure that the products we write are absolutely Targeted towards those people. They have to be amazingly simple They have to be what microsoft did back in the pc era Okay, 20 years ago which people anyway were choosing it because it was very simple to deploy their applications. Okay We have to bring it to the cloud today But at the same time we have to make also all the other guys Happy that want to be sure that are in control of the code and they can hack into it solutions like system center Or be sphere or similar. They simply don't apply here because dev ops don't like the idea to have a close box there Where they cannot put their hands, okay? So that's why OpenStack is definitely a winning solution here There already is a place for hyper B within open cell. Yeah, we actually you can run hyper B within your open stack cloud instead of So to put things in perspective, it's already in production So people are using it So there's I can give you my answer As we see what's happening in cloud Okay, the the reason there are different hypervisors because it was different hypervisors address different technical issues Right in some cases we switch the container because we want the performance to be closer to the higher In some cases we switch to hyper B because we have licensing challenges and we want better support for our windows workloads on top of the hypervisor that we're going to run And there's obviously, uh, you know the process and minuses of each hypervisor platform that you're going to choose and in some cases It really isn't that. Yeah, peter. I would add I I don't think we know I don't think we know yet and I don't think we have to know at this moment The reality is right. Alessandra's right. We the customers I have that are running open stack It's not their first cloud and it's not their first virtualization environment They've got other other stacks running and when it comes to things like scale or when it comes to new workloads That's when they're coming to talking to me about open stack And the hype what hyper v enables me as a vendor to do is not to have a multiple all open stack Conversation for a customer that doesn't have anything to do with open source I can I can actually go and have a conversation that says you can use a hyper v that you're comfortable with That you've already got and we can make open stack run on it It's rather than going kvm open stack, uh, you know open source crowbar all these things that are extremely wicked scary To someone who has been doing microsoft pure for their their whole their career This enables me actually to give them, uh, you know an entry point to at least have that conversation That's where i'm going. I don't know yet whether you know linux workloads running on hyper v I don't know if that's I don't know what that's going to be But I say another tenant of this community is that we don't have to predict it You know, there's an agile methodology here That says let's go do the things that we think we need to do and let's let the markets tell us where they want to go And so I think this enablement is extremely important because like I said, it's that bridge That's going to start connecting a broad base I actually believe that uh, microsoft, uh, the hyper v market, uh, the esx market. I think those markets Are gigantic there are a lot of people out there that need the technology advances that we're starting to see They just don't have a means to get where we're going to go unless they you know buy the whole package And so I think the the hyper v work that we're doing here starts bridging that there And uh, it's right you're we're going to see I think even in 10 years from now I don't think you're going to see one cloud for every, you know in in, you know, uh, ubiquitously I'm a server vendor. I don't see one server manufacturer in every data center. I don't And I recognize that's part of our design tenants now I think with clouds you're going to find the same thing. They're going to be pros and cons to each They're going to be different uh clouds that are better for different users And I think that hyper v this this advance was just one way to start making that happen and And allowing more people to understand how open stack can work One important thing about choice you don't have to choose I mean you can have your linux workloads on top of kvm And your windows workloads on top of hyper v. That's what most of our customers are doing For example including also sir, for example, uh, as an example Yeah, that's the beauty open stack is a control plane. I think a lot of people get confused on this was always the goal Uh, you you have flexibility. You have choice. You you can't put a hyper v you can do esx Yesterday I did a talk with dan wendlin on the uh, what what vmware is done in regards to Controlling and connecting into open stack But I think one way to make this ubiquitous it'd be awesome if microsoft jumps full force in and takes part in the open stack community Peter you're doing a great job, but we need uh, we need the redmond guys to to come on If they watch the video later, are we filming? But to be fair to be fair to microsoft uh, the recent announcement That cloud base and del and susa announced around hyper v support Was backed by microsoft microsoft lent us their support. So it's not that uh, you know, and I think this is kind of a community thing It's not us dev ops people versus everybody else Right, we want to get them in we want to include them and in this case It's not us versus microsoft or vmware Those two big companies are now part of the conversation now, right? This is where we want to go We want to get past all the quibbling Get the basic stuff done because you know what there's a Many many years of advancement that we want to hurry up and get to so I think that's an important entity to call out So and I would say that from the open stack community of your point right now. It is important than when Enterprise customers actually come back to the open stack community and share their use cases their needs because like Before that at the beginning open stack was kind of like linux gigs shop That's it. But right now open stack is pretty major and stable and we see that it's more and more adapted by the big and huge enterprises and what we need As a community is to have this feedback from the enterprise customers to really understand What is missed in the open stack what we Should add and What are the actual requirements? Simply because it tools like puppet and open stack, right? Whereas the head count in windows is going up because it's becoming really much harder to manage and and I try and cross-pollinate those and and you're banging heads together because We haven't managed to get puppet to work against windows Okay Oh, does it okay Between the platform that we're choosing Right, so so obviously, you know, those are challenges that I've heard from you know, a lot of these guys a lot of other top providers a lot of people who are selling cloud solutions and enterprises You know, there is that huge barrier to entry that we have to overcome and we need to just bring it back to the Right, okay We're over time If they have more questions we can stay here outside a little bit. I mean if you want to talk about