 Great to have you back here on the breakfast. Our final conversation this morning is on the rearrest of Nandikhanu, the leader, a self-acclaimed leader of the indigenous people of Biafra. It broke Nigerian news yesterday where the federal government, of course, had stated that he had been rearrested and has been charged to court. Of course, next court session will be on the 26th of July. This morning we're speaking with Nik Agouleh, a political analyst, to share his thoughts on some of the details concerning this. Good morning, Mr Agouleh. Good morning. Okay. He would, of course, hold on until he connects with us fully to get into these details. The controversy concerning where he was arrested, if there was any extradition or not, if he was picked up in a different country from the UK and some of all of that. I saw a lot of people going, you know, with their own theories yesterday, talking about how the UK has betrayed Nigeria, how the UK doesn't care, and some of all of that. But good thing that there was a statement from the UK's office saying that he wasn't picked up in the UK. And so now we move to talking about what happens in the trial. How does he get a fair trial? And of course, if the things that he has been charged for, what are his chances concerning them? And there's so much. The ability to also hold a trial that wouldn't also turn the country into chaos because of the thousands and thousands of followers that he has that also need to understand that the law is a law. And if you've broken the law in any way, then of course you have to go through that process. Mr Agouleh, good morning once again. I'm sorry, I have to take this off camera here. All right, great to have you on the program this morning. Let's quickly get your thoughts on the news, you know, on his arrest. There was controversy, you know, concerning where he was arrested, if it was in the UK, if he had to go through an extradition process or not. So, but, you know, you start with, you know, your response or your feelings concerning his arrest and what this means. Okay, thank you very much and good morning to the viewers. Yes, the news of the arrest of Femina Di Cano came to me as a surprise. It was very expected. I didn't have any inkling that this was going to happen. What I can say is that the long arms of the law can reach out to anybody anywhere in the world, especially in these days where we live in a globalized world. So, this arrest confirms the fact that the law can reach out to anybody and there is no more hiding place. And that is the first thing. The second thing is that the government is doing the right thing if they believe that Di Cano has a case to answer. So, the best way is to put him through trial. I mean, if we're in the military regime, they could have taken him out. They could have either shot him or the kind of atrocities we used to see in the military era. But now the government is going the judicial process or putting him through trial so that it gives him an opportunity to defend himself. So, in that regard, yes, this is a step in the right direction. But the government has to show sincerity or purpose. In Nigeria, you know, there is the feeling that the long arms of the law, you know, has eyes. It's not blind. So, it seems certain people go after them and other people who are engaging in similar criminality or some other form of criminality are not being apprehended or brought to book. So, the government needs to show sincerity or purpose that the long arm of the law has no respect for any person. That all citizens are equal before the law and whoever does anything wrong is going to be held to account. That is the second thing. The 13th is the delivery of justice. As it is said, justice delayed is justice denied. So, this trial of Nandikano has to be expeditious. It has to be fair. It has to be fair and it has to give him all the rights that he has, including the fact that he is innocent on the proven guilty. And therefore, his treatment, why he is now in custody, his human rights must not be abused. He has to be given decent treatment required by him as a human being and a citizen of the country. And he has to be accorded a welfare, including medical services, his feeding and even a place of incarceration should be decent enough to show that we are a democratic country that is focused on enforcing the law in a fair and fair way. Okay, Mr Agulay, there are other secessionist groups in Nigeria. There's the Orduan Nation, there's the Affenifer group who say that there will not be an election in 2023 if they do not go there separately. There's just many others in the country and it seems that Nandikano has been made an example of. So, do you think the government's next move should be going after these people to arrest them? And how do you think this case, this trial of Nandikano, might set a precedent? I believe that our constitution grants us the freedom of opinion, freedom of free speech. So, if someone comes up to make a statement to say we need to be given self-governance or we need to have some determination and that elections we know will accept that our demands are met. To me, they are only exercising their freedom of free speech and I'm not going to quarrel with that. What I quarrel with is, what I quarrel with is when people engage in any form of criminality. If you engage in any form of criminality, then the law and the law should come after you. So agitations on their own, that is what the democratic process is all about. And if people are just agitating and asking that this is what they want, that is fine. But immediately you engage in any act of criminality. What that means is that the government has a duty to protect innocent citizens who are not victims of your criminal activities. And that duty of protecting those citizens has to be fair by the government. And I believe that is what is happening in Ndikamu and should happen to any of the other groups if they should engage in any act of criminality. All right. What do you think his chances are with the things that he has been charged with? Trees in as one of them, inciting violence. And of course, the events in the southeast in the last three months. Do you think that he would get proper representation in court? Do you think that he stands any chance with this charges against him? It is very important. The government must create the enabling environment to ensure that Ndikamu receives a fair trial, a fair and judicious and expeditious trial. If the government has evidence that Ndikamu has committed acts of treason or treasonable felony as it is called, or he's part of any treasonable actions against the state of Nigeria, or the terrorist actions that are happening anywhere in Nigeria or elsewhere, including the unknown gunman, or is it unknown man, as they are called in the southeast, if they have evidence that Ndikamu is responsible for these criminal activities, or he's supposed to be sent or is in court with anyone who is perpetrating these acts, then he behoves on the government to table those charges and evidence in court, so that Ndikamu will have his day of defense. He will have his day in court to defend himself against these charges. And if he completely shows that he's innocent of these charges, it is justice demands that he should be let free. But if the government convinces the judiciary that Ndikamu is indeed complicit, then of course he has to be head to account. This is the only way we can run the country and expect development when people are head to account, regardless of their status in society, from the lowest to the highest. How do you think that the government can manage this period to ensure that it doesn't generate reprisal or the emotions of people of the southeast, and his followers who are in their thousands around the southeast? How can the Nigerian government ensure that it doesn't cause more chaos than in the past? A very good question. That is the duty of government. The duty of government, the primary duty of government is to provide security of rights and property and provide welfare to the people. So the government has to take all the measures to ensure that this duty is not compromised. So on the one hand, the government is putting in Ndikamu a true trial. On the second hand, the government has to take adequate steps to forestall, and it's very important that these steps have to prevent any breakdown of law and order. It's not for government to wait, and when there's a breakdown of law and order, they come up with their goals and start shooting people. So this has to be the government winning the hearts and minds of the people, of giving people the confidence that Ndikamu is going to be taking through a judicial process. Of the government reaching out to the leaders of thought in the southeast, including the traditional institution, the political leadership, the religious leadership, and of course the arms of government in the southeast, the state and the local governments in the southeast, and other groups like and all of that in the southeast, by government reaching out to them, explaining the situation, bringing them on board, and also showing by concrete evidence that Ndikamu is receiving fair and just treatment, as is in the custody of government now. And that is going to prevent any breakdown of law and order. The government shouldn't just wait until when there's a breakdown and then they come up with goals for that terrorizing the people. Mr. Gouwe, some analysts have said that the secession, the Biafra agitation, is beyond Ndikamu, and that even when Ndikamu is no more, someone else will rise up to lead that movement. Do you agree with this school of thought? And also, how about the government addressing these fundamental issues that made all this agitation, secessionist agitation come up in the first place, such as restructuring? Do you think that would be, you know, the final answer? That's a good question. Yes, indeed, as you can see, these agitations for self-determination, for restructuring, self-governance or secession or whatever name it goes by, have increased in tempo in recent times. And that is precisely because Nigerians are no longer feeling at all the federation. They are feeling being left out. You know, they are setting parts of the country that think that they are not getting the fair deal from Nigeria as a state. So this is what is now oiling or fueling these agitations. So the first thing to be done is for the federal government of Nigeria to take actions, including appointments and all that, in the federal government, to be fair so that people feel a sense of belonging to the state of Nigeria. Don't fear as if they are strangers or they are being shortchanged. So that is one thing. The second thing is that on the side of the people, I have no problem for people voicing that they want to stand alone through a referendum. That is a legal process. Even here in the UK, the Scottish people had a referendum about two or three years ago that they wanted to leave the United Kingdom and be on their own. But unfortunately, the constitution of Nigeria does not have a provision for a referendum, which is the most legitimate and legal and bloodless way for people to have said determination and decide to be on their own if they so wish. So it becomes on the government to change the constitution and make the constitution to have a referendum inside. And that is what and that role is from three people. It either comes from the executive, which is the federal government, or it comes from the legislature itself, or it comes from citizens of Nigeria who we put a bill in the National Assembly to amend the constitution to have a referendum. And in the National Assembly, it's not that many of the constitution to give Nigerian citizens the right to send the termination through a referendum. Nigerian citizens have to begin the process of dealing with national assembly members. The constitution provides Nigerian citizens the power to recall national assembly members. So instead of having ESN to cause havoc and killings, it lets the people of the South East begin to engage their national assembly members and they need a bill to be tabled in the National Assembly for a referendum. And if the National Assembly members from the East are not doing that, then they should start their recall process. All right, Ms Agole, from each of the five states in the East, sorry. We would have to end the conversation here. The recall process is not a very huge conversation, but thank you very much for what we've been able to share so far. We would of course look forward to talking with you again as this case develops. Thank you very much. Okay, all right, and this is where we will be wrapping up this morning. If you missed out on any of these conversations, remember to join us on our social media platforms at Plus TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram, same with our YouTube channel. I am Osao Ghee, and I am Annette Felix, saying bye-bye.