 Welcome to Toffy TV. I am joined by Paddy Boyland from the Athletic. Before we chat to Paddy, obviously this is sponsored by the Athletic. They have some of the world's best journalists, world-class writers including Paddy and Greg O'Keefe just evident and focused there. You can get the Athletic for three for thirty days and get 50% off your yearly subscription if you click the link in the description below. These are really good pieces on evidence by Paddy and Greg. I'm going to speak to Paddy about his latest piece. In a minute Paddy, welcome. I've seen you for a while mate. Good, I'm good. You're looking good mate. I know you're a little bit under the weather. You're a little bit caught that evidence bug from the weekend. The Athletic is fairly new in this country and it's been fairly new in the United States. You've gone over to it so tell us a little bit about it. Yes, so obviously some ear listeners will have already heard of this and seen it themselves. But basically it started in the US two or three years ago in Chicago, moved the headquarters to San Francisco expanded and now they've decided to come over here and more or less go and focus in depth on Premier League coverage, use that as the foundation. Cover all the clubs and I think the big thing for me is we've got to dedicate to Everton Rises and that means that we're able to pool our resources and every day come up with new and interesting content, I believe anyway. Interesting content for Evertonians to read about the club, they obviously support. It's no slight on other organisations but you won't get Everton coverage every day in the Guardian or the Times or the Telegraph. We're only covered really when I feel like it's a big story when we're either doing really well or really poorly. But if Everton finish eight this season you'll still get the same amount of content from us and we'll continue to kind of keep telling those in depth stories. So no, it's great and it's been really good so far. Good, good luck there you're doing really well. It is your right, I mean listen, with all the best will in the world I haven't done a big story for national journalists because we're not doing as well as we all want to. So to have Everton content, designated Everton content, buy Evertonians which is obviously what you and Greg are, that's a really good thing. Your latest piece after Manchester City, the week in the red was good, was very good. But it's about Marko Silver and this is something I did last week with David Maddick from the Mirror. We've done a bit about Marko Silver so it was interesting seeing your take on it in there and obviously he spoke to John Blaine and Gavin Buchlin, Matthew Owens for their perspective on it as well. It seems to be a common theme now coming from a lot of people that, hey, we just don't know the manager. Really we still don't know him other than what we see at press conferences and if we can be bothered to read about what he's done before, which is really all I've been able to form my opinion on his time at Esteril and time at Olympiac, sport and places like that. I tend to skate over Hull and Wafford and I know a lot of people have fixed on Hull and Wafford but I think when he went to Hull he would have lost course and he almost kept them up. Wafford he was doing alright till we wanted them. People did this with Roberto Martinez as well and obviously in the end it didn't work out for Roberto obviously at Everton but he took Wigan from a position in which they were a small club on the periphery of north west football even and won them the FA Cup, they were in the Premier League and it's no slides on Wigan but they're not a Premier League club really in terms of size or stature are they? No. And I think that's what you say and I guess with Marco Silva with Hull they were more or less dead and buried when he took over so kind of trying to learn lessons from that spell I think it's a little bit harsh on him. It is a little bit. Wafford's a different case because I think for a while they were well run they were making a stupid purchase in the transfer market and so on but there's still a huge question mark as you say in 15, 16 months on we might not yet know the real Marco Silva and that's what John Blaine who's been on here recently chairman of Everton shareholders association effectively said to me in the piece. So he'd like to see more from Silva in terms of his personality and that kind of stuff shining through and for me that's a legitimate point because I think what we see as fans, as journalists in my case is we see the media personality. We see a guy that has put on an exterior as I would if I was at a press conference to be honest with you. But there's an awful lot more to people than that facade and we were joking off. I'd love to speak to Marco Silva, not necessarily just about football but about kind of what he's interested in, what kind of drives him on a day to day basis, kind of what keeps him pushing to kind of reach the top. We still haven't got that and I think we do as supporters give people we form a connection with a little bit more leeway. That was one of my points in the article. You look at how long Roberto Martinez went and really from midway through his second season there was serious question marks. I remember they lost away a hole. Gareth Barry played as a third centre back and got outpaced by Nikita Yelevich for one of the goals, lost 2-0 and it almost looked as though the wheels had come off there. Now a few good cup runs, Europa League and then the year after in FA Cup and League Cup kind of helped I guess. You give them more time because they're so positive and you feel like you know what they're about. You guys had sat down with Roberto, I had other fan groups and it means that if there's a benefit of the doubt to be had you're going to go and side with them. I'm not sure that I'd maybe be quite as critical of Marco as some Evertonians but I don't think at the moment the fan base is inclined maybe to give them the benefit of the doubt the whole time. There's still questions as to what his favourite system is, to what makes him tick on a day-to-day basis and all these kinds of things. That was kind of the main thrust of the article but it kind of continued our theme of Silver Week. Greg had written a piece in the week about, he'd spoken to a few people close to the players and he was kind of getting a take on the thought towards the sentiment towards Silver if you will from the playing side, what's going on behind the scenes. I think to carry that on, to round it all off you do need to look at what's going on inside. Goodison on match day and speak to fans so great to speak to John, to Matt, to Gav as well, all good Evertonians but knowledgeable and insightful Evertonians as well. But it was interesting to me and I don't know if you feel the same but I was expecting things to turn quite sour on Saturday if things had gone badly purely because of the run of form but also the team selection before the game. Twitter's not the best place in the world to judge fan sentiments and dissatisfaction but that was kind of a light for an hour after the team was announced wasn't it? The inclusion of Theo. The inclusion of Theo Wolcott, leaving a Wobie out, no Bernardo, no Bernardo obviously wasn't well and a few of the other kind of tactical decisions he'd made there. I think there was a chance that if some day had gone really badly then Goodison might have voiced his pleasure as it did against Sheffield United but that didn't really materialise. I heard a few boos in the main stand but I think you always hear a few boos in the main stand anyway. The overwhelming thing for me is I heard people clapping, I saw people staying behind afterwards and Everton lost, still disappointing but I think there was an acceptance that the team were kind of four for the manager almost and everyone was pulling in the right direction. Exactly, in the opposition I think many people go, they are a good side and obviously there was the caveat of the claw points back on Liverpool as well. I think a lot of people are like, well if we're going to lose. But I think you're right, they've gone the other way. If there had been a flap performance from Everton I think the potential was there that people would have voiced their displeasure because it's frustrating. I think the difficult job for the manager and probably for any manager now who takes Everton's job is that every year that goes by without us doing anything. Every year it goes but it's like a coil spring I think Everton so it's getting tighter every year so the margin of error becomes smaller for a manager. So where is Roberto Martinez, it was three years. You're absolutely right after 18 months people were going, hang on. But because we liked them and we were invested in them, we were like oh no you'll get it right or you just need this or that. It gets you all to come and come in and no one connected with Cumin. You know we don't have a song for them, I don't think people like them. He didn't give himself up to the club at all. Aladais was an issue although he done what he was asked to do. Whether we liked that as fans or not he was asked to keep Everton steady and he did. So when Marco came in obviously people had question marks over and some section of fans didn't want him. I was quite happy with the point young attack on the manager what I'd seen at Wofford. I remember when he played Chelsea and he was tuned up and he was absolutely brilliant. He should have played Chelsea away and Alasnacks he missed the Bob 3 sitters and they ended up losing 4-2. But I remember that day thinking I'd love Everton to play like that, dead attack on 4-3-3. So when he come in and said I like to play 4-3-3 and I like to be attacking. I was thinking that good because we need a style of play, we need a young manager, we need a vision. And I suppose last season started alright and the night I was saying this to Pedd. I feel as though he lost all his confidence between Christmas and March and he went back into himself a little bit. And then obviously we finished the last 10 weeks of the season really strongly didn't we? We had the great home record near the end and that gave everyone that belief. But to me this season it seems as though we almost wiped the board cleaning the summer of what we were doing. And we look a bit disjointed and that's I guess if we're new a little bit more about the manager. Everyone might go well yeah but he's trying to do this or yeah but we're behind him because we know what his vision is. And I guess that's what your piece was saying. People still aren't at that stage where you're going. Or some are but not everyone's at the stage where you're going and he has to go. But we're all at the stage going well why does he keep playing 4-3-3? Why does he keep doing this? Where's this 4-3-3 that he spoke about? We don't know and I think that's what your piece is saying. We actually don't know the man and we need to know the man if we're going to invest in him. I guess there are tactical questions there aren't there. If he's so keen on 4-3-3 why won't he play it? Obviously at the moment he's a little bit hamstrung by some of those injuries. We have been unfortunate with JP getting injured, Gomez now out, Tom Davis not being in favour for whatever reason. Which is weird because I actually think he would suit. He'd be best in a 4-3-3 top kind of just going box-to-box. But I asked Marco this after the Crystal Palace game. Because the piece I wrote after that season opener was how the midfields looking after address again. It just kind of took stock of how things were kind of shaping up tactically and everything else. And the conclusion I kind of come to is that we've gone like for like and replaced somebody who's work rate and ability off the ball was far from average. It was way above average and we've replaced him with somebody and we're trying to do more or less the same thing in that area of the pitch. And even further back if you take the midfield out of it and look at the centre of defence the solution that Silver found after the middle-war game, which was the low point of last season probably for me and for everyone else. Involved Kurtzuma playing with Michael Keane, Idrissa Gay being in front. So you're kind of snuffed out counter-attacks. You're able to play a bit higher up the pitch because of Kurtzuma's pace. And those two centre backs really complemented each other. Now we've got two guys that effectively I think if you were pigeonholing central defenders you'd see them both as ball winners looking to dominate in the air. And what you actually need probably is somebody that's able to either carry the ball out or able to mop up behind. So we're still kind of doing things more or less the same way in the same system despite having completely different personnel. And two key areas, isn't it? And it is and I don't think it's always about just swapping one in and one out. Eventually JP might do 75% of the things that Idrissa Gay does. Michael Keane might do 50% of the things that Kurtzuma does, although I have my doubts on that one to be honest given the traits of the two players. But why can't this solution be a completely different system where you might stick another man in the midfield and allow another midfield to push on and get in the box on the end of crosses? So much of our blueprint at the moment is about getting the ball wide to Lucadir, Iwobi, Richarlison and Seamus Coleman on the other side. We attacked down the flanks, I think it's about 80% of the time so far this season. So you need runners coming late into the box, but at the weekend did we really see that? Guilfee-Sigarton plays effectively alongside Dominic Harvert-Lewan and then you've got Delph and Schneidlin 30 yards further back with this big void in the middle. And they aren't given licence because Dean and Coleman are bombing on. Can we not restructure this to, I guess, play a different way? That's what I would like to see. I'd like to see something different, I'd like to see something a bit bolder, a bit more dynamic with players interchanging a bit more in those areas. Evertonians don't like using Liverpool as the example, that's what Liverpool do. And I think it's salience isn't it because the top of the league is that they're playing something, very, very good stuff. At the moment it just seems like we've gone evidence half measures with regards to replacing Gay and Zuma, and it might take a bit of a rethink before we finally get there at least. I totally agree with you, I think, and I like Marco that defended them all the way along and sometimes people have a problem with that, and I think he's shown me at times enough, but then there is question marks, I'm not going to lie, I'm not stupid, I'm not blind, I'm not going to go, well no, he's great because there's big question marks. And this is one of them, it's that why we are almost saying I continue doing what we were doing last year, but we haven't got the same legs in Ghana and Zuma. So the midfield I think is a real crux of evidence problems. And to be fair, you know, apparently 72 hours before the windows shut, Zuma was still like this with Chelsea, and subsequently we've seen that, he's so beaten in play, he's on to look after Rudig if he's off the game, but it's Tamori and they've played Christians in there. Well the fallback was Tamori as well, wasn't it? Exactly, and because David Luish went, that got pulled, he tried to get smalling, but United wouldn't do business. So whether people like smalling or not, one attribute he does have is his pace. So we were obviously trying to fit that in. But you're right, the midfield though for me is the real issue. I think a midfield three of Snidel and Sigarton and Delph isn't going to give you legs anyway. You know, Delph I think has been quite, he's been decent, and I want to think he can do that bit just in front of the back four, because I think he's got a little bit more movement than Snidel and Snidel. It's just too slow in my opinion. I think a modern day midfielder has to be able to go everywhere, and like you're saying at Liverpool, they play a real front three. They're front three, yet man, I'm not sure how the track back at times, because every player has to put the work right in. I don't think we have to worry about that with the likes of the Tiarluson. You know, the amount of tackles, I think he's sick then, most tackles this season of Tiarluson. And the highest I think last time I checked of any forward as well. But I actually am slightly worried about that, because I would rather he saved his energy for that kind of explosive burst at the other end. And just allow, you might have an extra midfielder in there, and say to one of your fullbacks, don't push on that much. Or if you do, one of your midfielder's goes and protects it. Liverpool do it really, again, apologies if you're right on your Liverpool thing, but the top of the league, so we have to use the example, City as well, is that they go, Liverpool have their fullbacks pushed on his wingers. The natural front three. But they have a midfiel three that will all do different things. Yes, for being here, we'll sit the deepest. But if they're playing like a Henderson in there, he still arrives at the box when Alden comes up with goals all the time. City, they have Gundo on scoring, Roderick has even gone off the mark already, and Fanandino would always get a couple. Whereas we seem to, you're absolutely right, we have a 30-yard gap in between Sigarton and Moise Keane, or Don. And then it's Delph and Snyddlen almost holding hands on, and it's like that whole area is like, we just don't play in it. And it's not like Guilfee's mobile enough to operate, like you're the brainer. And that's a major big question mark over mark, and that's why I'd like the club to do something with them, or like you guys sit down with them, or us sit down with them and go, you spoke about a 4-3-3. Cos the first interview we did for Everton on day one, he'd done a 15-minute thing, and he said 4-3. They asked him what can we expect from you, and he was like, work hard every day. I've got no doubt they do that, I know they do that. He's very meticulous, I know he's that. But he said 4-3-3 attacking football. We've never played it, and it's 16 months into his reign, so why have we not played it? Why in your opinion has he not played it? I think at the moment, certainly with the players that are out, the likes of, say, a Gomez and also JP. He doesn't quite believe he's got the right make-up in that midfield. You look at what you would do in a 4-3-3. Probably have one guy sitting in there and a couple of others, Shutland, Box the Box. Do we have the personnel to have two going Box the Box? Can we afford to leave one defender midfielder in the Lycish Nidolin, for example? You've mentioned there's lack of pace there, would you? But couldn't Delft, in your opinion, could Delft do that? I think actually he sees Delft as being one of the two on either side. I mean, there's a question there, isn't it? Because he's 29 already, and will he have the likes to do that in 18 months' time? Or beyond, even. So he is kind of, like I said, he is obviously hamstrung by his options. Tom Davis out of favour even though he's somebody that I would like to see in that particular system. He's certainly not somebody that classes number 10, got a number 6 either. He's just an all-around midfielder and he's got that kind of energy in terms of breaking those lines. And that kind of, what we've got at the moment, I think just flies in the face of all the main trends in the Premier League and in modern football. It's all about you watch Leicester, you watch Liverpool, Manchester City, sides on the continent, well the best sides on the continent. And it's about winning the ball back high up the pitch and being able to deal defensively then when you lose the ball. How do you get back into position in your structure? And we don't do either of those things well. I don't think we transition well at either end of the pitch. Maybe we did when Idrissa Gay was there defensively. But for me, Silver still doesn't have the confidence in those that he's got around him to move to that particular system. We probably will see it at some point this season. I think it's more or less inevitable that we will, given how much he favours it. But I mean, after the Crystal Palace game and the opener I said to him, effectively what's the plan moving forward? But these guys, how do you see JP fitting in for example? He said well we've got two defensive midfielders, we've got JP and we've got Morgan Schneiderlin. And again he was still using the language I think of four, two, three, one. He was still using that kind of the binary you're either a defensive midfielder or you're an attacking midfielder. And obviously there's that whole middle ground. What is James Madison for example? James Madison for me, maybe you might call him a number eight. But he plays, he can play from the left. He can play as a number ten, he can drop in and play as an eight. I'd say he's an attacking midfielder for me. But there's other players, like there's Barnes as well, Harry Barnes at Leicester. You can do both jobs and you're looking at, we were talking off camera before about Louis Cooke at Bourmouth, you wouldn't pitch an old in would you? You can do all the jobs. I think a lot of midfielders now can do all the jobs. I think when Alden was another one, I would have said that he's definitely an attacking midfielder when he was in Holland, he went to Newcastle. He was nothing but he scored goals. And Klops got him and gave him a rolling on this is what you'll do. And I think maybe for Marco, I think the fans again, again this is buying into again what we opened with was we don't really know him. Fans I think will give him more leeway if he tried different solutions, if he looked and went right, we're playing Sheffield United. Because I think for a lot of people this is the game and me this is the game that's still rankle. City is the city. Edison's made three billion saves at the weekend, they could have been a different outcome. But Sheffield United was horrific. They were bang average, they were set up averagely and they didn't have to do anything to beat us. And yet we started the game with two defensive midfield players and it's like for that game, why didn't you just play Delf, Tom Davis, and said to you two, because I think we have to play Bernard because he gives us natural width and he helps Luke of Deane's game a million percent. The best partnership in the team. Without a shadow and for me too incredibly gift of football so I think he's got to get them in your team. I think a Wobby's better. When a Wobby plays wide, he comes in field all the time anyway. He doesn't want to go on the outside and a Wobby can see a pass. I know Saturday he didn't have legs but he was ill. But in general he's got good energy to get. He can do both jobs. I think Tom Davis naturally plays forward. He wants every pass he wants to play forward. Doesn't mind mixing it. He'll get stuck in. So I think if he tried a little mixture of a midfield maybe even say to Sigarton can you do what you do for Iceland and come and play tonight then and come further back so you're helping us out. And we can leave like you said before high up the pitch and Bernard or Moise Keane or Dom, whoever it is in that front three leave them high up the pitch. It's the insistence on continuing to do what he's done all the way along. I think that people are kind of going there's nothing different here. You're just taking off a right winger and putting a right winger on. There's no thinking outside the box room which I think is really making people go and I'm not sure about them or I don't want them we need something different and I think that's why I mean in your opinion do you think the club could do a little bit more to sell them to people? I don't mean sell them's not the right way but help the manager get his personality across a little bit more because it seems we only seem like I said before it's press conferences seem to get shorter as well about eight minutes or something and then they cut the can out different for you it's like eight and a half minutes and then all of a sudden you get that spinach stuff you know cameras are off so you know he's very body language he's very closed and which is fine because you know he doesn't have to come on singing that's his exterior that's it but we need to know more behind the man I suppose if that's what I think that's what people's feelings are again to go back to your article that was that one let's move away from him then because I don't think we're going to get any more out of that we do more for Marco at least another piece that you wrote the other week I was really interested in was Anthony Gordon, a young lad he was doing brilliant at the moment and he started really well and his latest little cameo was beaten for city plays the other night I'm rocking the other side of the bar for Ellison so I just go me and Pead often have it and people who will like put questions in what's happening with him and is there anyone you think can make it into the first teams and the 23s and you're looking and go looks like he's not far away and now Dennis had an errand saying with the third team every day and I would see him as someone who might force his way in I don't know I haven't seen that much and now I'm like that with him a little bit Ellison for me is nowhere near ready but Anthony Gordon's one who I think stands out already and he's made that transition now he's highly rated it's him and Louis Dobbin the other one he's really highly rated and we've got a couple of crackers don't get me wrong but you've seen Anthony Gordon and you've done a piece about him you've been watching for England so what's your feelings on him at the moment is he close do you think to maybe making one of the squads or do you still think it's a little bit too early for that? I think he's a really interesting case because sometimes you look at football as coming through and you see real potential but they play in a position where kind of pushing them on without the kind of the physicality being there is a difficult one it becomes a difficult issue so would you throw Lewis Gibson and Lewis Gibson's got loads of potential by the way but would you throw him in against that Wesley that played for Preston Lily? probably not yeah because even R2 that played got a bit bullied by Anthony so you've got that kind of dynamic in certain positions on the pitch where you can't really blood them that young and often with centre backs they often have to go and play out wide don't they they play it left back or right back he's a different case entirely because I think he plays in a part the pitch where you can kind of afford somebody to be off the game for kind of a 15-20 minute period here or there and he is still only young he's only just signed like proper terms and then all the big clubs are after him he had clubs in Germany after him I was told that teams in Spain in Italy and France were also keen all the top clubs in Europe I've had an eye on him because he's done so well for Everton when Everton have gone abroad and played in the tournament obviously over the summer he played in the SN tournament I think it was was named attacker of the competition and there were some big teams there Inter and Barcer and some of those guys so he's hardly thought of you entirely right bundles of ability and they've worked very very hard over the last few years I spoke to David Unsworth about and they worked very very hard on what he does off the ball he's got all the ability in the world with the ball at his feet and we saw that with the goal that Alice Sims scored last week at Southport against Manchester City but to be a Premier League player as a winger now, as a wide player I think he will be forever to move him forward you need to know when to press and you need to they're all the kind of the nitty gritty so he's still adapt and he's still learning he's still relatively new to under 23s football and physically there are times when he's getting bundled off the ball by much bigger players than the game that's it's men's football then isn't it some of the guys there playing under 23s football but I think what he's got is he's explosive and I had a few comments I posted the video over the goal and a few comments saying he looks slow he looks like he's running three quicks and like if you watch him for more than 10 minutes you'll see that he's absolutely rapid off the mark the accelerations there that burst the pace but he kind of continues it and he's able to go again he gets like a second wind and he's quick evidence seeing him as being the one that breaks through those lines but that kind of comes inside off the left and is able to create and to score goals I mean his record so far this season he's second and on and on the 23 level he scored a couple at the end that stood me against Arsenal scored a couple at the end but it's the one that really impressed me there was a goal against Mansfield in leasing.com now isn't it formally check the trade I mean I've been working on it for weeks they come out with some great names don't they the check trade the leasing.com ones the worst because even on articles I don't need it to do that but that goal against Mansfield just kind of again playing against men just kind of made a few of them look silly darted in field and put one in the bottom corner so there's a talent there with Gordon that I've not seen and quite a lot of the kids that have come through I think Dahl's maybe the exception he's the one he's always had a great left foot I think the reason his progress is stalled is for different reasons for different reasons to most others but what we've seen from most of them most of them are kind of work today but unworth fossils this culture of buying into the work ethic and all that kind of stuff so you see real good pros coming through Tom Davis works hard John Joe Kenny works hard and Don leads the line and puts in a shift but it's maybe been that sprinkle of stardust that Premier League quality that some of them have lacked over the years I think Anthony Gordon's got that I think top level he is a Premier League player and he may well be a very good Premier League player but I mean I've asked people does he go out and loan I've asked people at the club and close to him does he go out and loan and they've always been a little bit coy about that they seem as being somebody that still needs to develop at the club and the reason he signed a new deal even though loads of others are interested is because they sat down with brands and they saw a pathway for him he's won with Dennis Adonair and Lewis Gibson as well and while all under 23s players occasionally train with the first team those guys do it every day and then drop down to play under 23s games and at the moment the plan and it hasn't been deviated from yet it's been to do that train with the first team and play under 23s games the more things rumble on in the first team and we still really haven't replaced Adam Ola Luckman and a few of the other guys feel well caught off the boil so we're still short of a few options and why there is the more Anthony Gordon continues to impress and the more he shows that he's got that top-end ability I think the more he does come into the into the reckoning but this is going to be about scoring a goal against Mansfield or Arsenal under 23s for Marco and it's the same with Ronald Cooman as well it's more or less how you do in training how are you when you come up against Sheamus Coleman or Luke of Dane can you go around if you get the better of Luke of Dane then you've got an opportunity you've got a chance haven't you and again he says numbers are ridiculous this year Luke of Dane already in the Premier League in terms of chances created and stuff like that so I mean we've seen him he played the second half there and come on he's done well he's drifted in and out of it a little bit but at times he could dance around if you remember Michael Keeman off with that head injury with Menelvo so they left the foot in on him a few times and he coped with it really well and what I've been impressed is his ability to come in off the left but also he's played as through the middle as well hasn't he played that in the game at the eminist and number nine played through the middle he's a modern isn't he think with Charleston two years into his time at Everton we're still having debates over his best position well actually I don't think Marco Silva really bothers that much about that he sees depending on who we're playing and what the style of play he's going to be for Charleston could play left, right or through the middle or he may be off Dominic Harford-Lewin or Moise Keane I think Gordon's not got that physicality he's not like with Charleston with Charleston's a man and he's still developed he's still growing dwi'n gwyloch y telegio'r pannad fel eich naen stawm he's shown that you can do it if you've got that ability Anthony's taller than that I like the fact that he can go either way with the ball he's got good body movement so he's an interest of mine and like you say while things are rumbling with the first team, when things aren't settled I suppose the question's always going to be do we put them in, do we have them on the bench do we give them ten minutes here and there and you know what for the manager if he's clever at times that might help him if you know what I mean just a little spark to go or I say something for the fans as well and listen, I'm not going to tell Michael Silver how to do his job but it's helpful the manager's in the past when they've needed that little bit of something else for the fans to buy into rather than it being Theo Walkock with six minutes left Anthony Gordon, everyone's start you know shit, oh he's this, this you know when Martin has did it you know for the event you know all of a sudden Tom Davis, some kid come on with his sock down like he was smoking a fat cigar doing drag Cruyff's in our box you know and we had Callum Connolly playing right back from nowhere and people were like going on here and he's doing well and Cair and Dahl it's another one you know but I think the problem with Dahl is it was something you alluded to before it's that there's no position for him his left foot is fantastic we've all watched them I remember being sat with you for a few of the 23s and we'd be talking going on the game is he and then the next when the bank's talking and from nowhere you go oh my god that is real his left foot's premier league quality but the rest of his game isn't there you know when he's in and out the derby side he's gone there and he started off and cocky was like oh he's going to be key for us three weeks later his sub doesn't get on because I don't know where he plays I don't think he's got that work ethic he plays like it's come day go day two and I don't think you can do that and I don't think Anthony Gordon is that kind of player I think you're right, I think you can play it occupy any of the front three positions and that's great for the manager so he's developing and we often say now it's a six day week for everything players or a five day week now to get you in the team it's not what you did last Saturday it's what you're doing every single day so I was on the look man got the nod in games last year when actually it was probably crying out for somebody like that but Theo was just that consistent player that puts in six six and a half out of ten on the training ground every day and that ends up getting him the nod but it's an interesting case isn't it because I think if Anthony Gordon was at Liverpool he'd have already made his first team debut already but he'd have already played this season and he's thinking because they had Brewster and a few of the others they had a few last week and Klopp can afford to do that because that competition is way down their list of priorities we have rumbled on now for so long without a trophy that Marco Silva can't really take any chances but at this moment in time when we're flying doing a league a little bit but Chef went down on an option I think he had to win that game Without a shadow he did but what I'm saying is one place off your bench for the kid like that and then the way he panned out he could have probably put him on with family he's not here to keep us happy in terms of I made up with Shane Anthony Gordon he's signed it so he's here to stay in the job long enough to do the job he wanted to do so you're absolutely right he needed to win that chef world game and that's why he went the way he did I don't mean in terms of winning to keep his job but we just needed to win don't we we had to get a win from somewhere we had to progress and we've seen before how cup progression can keep you in a job for longer than it maybe should do in some cases again going back to Martinez but I just think it speaks to a lack of trust from Silva and what he's seeing from some of his plays at times he's obviously called quite a few of them out after the Sheffield United games he'll be bolder, take more chances take more risks on the ball and maybe at this moment in time he just doesn't feel as though he can afford to take any kind of chances whatsoever because we are kind of a little bit like this aren't we we are in a position where he could go one way or another slightly down slightly tilted downwards and that maybe Gordon is not a victim as such but he's a victim of that kind of downward trend at the moment and the instability as you put it yourself does she, it's an interesting one I suppose if he carries on doing what he's doing at 23s and in the leasing.com trophy then then shouts will be getting louder and louder and hopefully he's doing that on the training ground every single day isn't it he's a young lad that's never thrown in working with the likes of Moise Keane and Richard and Bernard seeing that kind of woe and then players doing it stay right in front of your eyes and only can show you the level you have to get to but also bring you on as well and fingers crossed because it'd be great to have a young lad who comes through who's just that extra level we haven't really had it since Wayne to be honest and I'm not saying I'm not saying I put him in that bracket and go he'll be like Wayne Rooney because Wayne Rooney was a man at 16 but to have someone, Ross Barclay I suppose who's a lad with loads of ability go for Zeke but again he's taken quite the height we wanted him to but it'd be good to have someone come through who could force his way into our first team for all the right reasons so interest in a look out for that make sure you check out Paddy's article on that in the athletic really good piece, really interesting piece as well and obviously the Michael Silver stuff from the weekend Paddy thanks very much battling me under the weather and she's been taking vitamins and everything trying to just keep the temperature down now you look at your daddy you need to have a hot bath and chill out make sure again you check the athletic the link is in the description free for 30 days and 50% off your yearly subscription follow Paddy on Twitter if you're not already and Paddy Boyland Paddy underscore Boyland I think that's the one Paddy underscore Boyland on Twitter make sure you give Paddy a follow there and debate Anthony Gordon with him and he will as long as you not abusive he's all good, he's all like me all thanks very much for watching see you later