 I also don't see it there is. Okay. Hi all. Welcome to the Jenkins governance meeting. Today is February 10th and we have a few topics in the agenda. So there were a few recent releases and one key highlighted that we updated the docata images. So now they are based on Debian 10 Buster instead of previous stress images and there are some breaking changes due to that. So Mark could expand it more. By the way, thanks Mark for the blog post. So on separate note, yeah, we have new LTS. There were a few relatively minor backwards there. So just a second, I'll post the link to find it. Okay. So yeah, in this LTS, I don't think we have anything particularly important, although there are some minor improvements. And the most important thing is the next LTS baseline, which will be based on 2.777. So release candidates coming soon. And basically this case will integrate all breaking changes and major update we were discussing before. So it's stable studies. It's extreme on forking. It's a jQuery replacement. And also there's a lot of smaller things here and there. So if you use Jenkins, it's definitely a good time to test this release because the update may impact installations. And the one critical item is table studies because we still know about many regressions in plugins which haven't been fixed yet. So last time I checked, we knew about something like 20 plugins which are about to be affected. Just a second, I'll find the query. And on that note, because people have been testing weekly, a lot of people aren't updating their plugins when they update their main installs. And that usually is the cause for these issues. So update your plugins at the same time. In this case, update will be necessary. And the thing that many plugin versions are not compatible with the previous LTS baseline. So it will be a two-stage process if you want to upgrade. So you just upgrade Jenkins core, then you upgrade plugins. And still there is a number of plugins which likely require fixes. So regarding major plugins, we have a few ones which are likely to be affected. For example, authorized project plugin. There are many users of it. And there are more plugins. But yeah, the most of major ones have been actually updated over the past months. That's the query. So we have four weeks until the next release. So definitely we could use this time to clean up the regressions. And the device release more if possible. Since we have taken the baseline, I guess, right now we basically push forward. So whatever happens, we try to lend the next LTS baseline. And if needed, if there is need to maintain the previous LTS baseline, we can reduce .5 if needed. If it will be strictly necessary. So that's it. Regarding the upcoming release, regarding FOSDOM, I guess it's rather to you, Mark and to you, Alyssa. Yeah. So a retrospective document has been started in the FOSDOM assignment sheet that Alyssa's collected. People are encouraged to include comments there. I was very impressed with the technology. We had relatively low traffic at the Jenkins stand. Oleg and I had a very good session diagnosing with a PhD candidate from Germany, if I remember right, who was having some interesting challenges doing development. But it was a one-on-one experience much more than the Jenkins stand at FOSDOM in the past had lots of walk by traffic and lots of people that interacted with us. This one was much, much quieter in terms of interactions. It could be that we need to put specific things on the schedule to encourage people to visit the stand at specific times. I'm not clear yet what would help the stand get more traffic. It was just low traffic this time. So I think Oleg was also a stand volunteer. I would love to get your feedback on that too, Oleg. Yeah. I was there on Sunday and on Sunday, I think actually nobody was there. Just the Jenkins people were there and nobody visited. Some people came in for maybe two or three minutes and then they checked. Nobody else is here and no presentation is here and then they went away. So I don't know what we can do to attract more people. But I think what Mark already said, maybe if we have more presentations with schedules, it would make more sense. Yeah. Because I don't know, virtually it's a little bit different to step by it. So you don't see the other people. So you need to go to this Chitzi, which some people came only to chat, but actually on the stand, I was not sure who is actually registered in the chat. So you don't see who is there. So in the stand, you see, okay, there are 10 people around and you can say, hello from my side, but in the chat, it's a little bit passive. So I think we have 70 people in the chat, but these were all the people that have been registered but not available. So there is no peep if someone new is coming in. And this was a little bit hard to recognize if we have new people here. So I did not do any presentation because nobody was there. So I offered, but nobody responded. So yeah, no, this is this is good feedback. Because I think I'd like to circle back to the organizers and see what was the feedback from the other other stands. Because this is the first time that we're actually doing this virtual. And I mean, most in previous years, people come to our stand for the stickers and buy our t-shirts and just to just have a casual chat. So this was quite different this year. And I also like the idea of possibly adding our presentations or demo to possibly the main schedule. Because I think that was not done. I mean, we had our schedule on our page, but it wasn't on the main schedule. So that might help next time. You could have also posted the presentations as drinking some white meat up specifically so that we could drive traffic from our platform to Fozdom. I do know there was some confusion between the two video streams as well, because there is a conference widget. And then there was like a one-on-one chat widget. And I had at least a couple of people private message me. I don't know why, but private message me about the conference widget not working. But I think we just didn't have any content going at the time. The conference thing didn't work for me either. And I had heard from Olivier that it was in general not working. So that was one of the flaws there. But it was a relatively minor flaw in that they knew that the conference thing in order instead, we had to use Jitsi. And that is somewhat of a barrier. You had to join the Jitsi need. And when you do join it, it drops you in video chat right away. So there's no listening or looking or looking before you join in. Which at 11, 1 a.m. for me was a little bit not the best time to join a video chat. Thanks. What do I think? Alissa, would you be willing to transfer some of these retrospective notes into that retrospective doc? Absolutely. Super thanks. So I think we've sort of concluded on the FOSM topic. Yeah. And since there is no skill this year, basically the same conference, the next big conference for us is CDCon. From what I understand. Right. Maybe there will be something before, but I'm not sure. I guess we won't have a stand at CubeCon. Will we? Because it continues to do the foundation like the sponsors at CubeCon. Yeah. I don't know about that. I'll have to look into that, Oleg. For Junk, it's unlikely. But as a part of CDF, like it was before, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. I think CDF will be there, but I'm not 100% sure. If anything, we will be part of CDF, but we won't do like a standalone Jenkins. Since we're talking about events, can I also add in here about DevOps worlds when we're ready? I have some information on that. So DevOps world is going to be September 29th and 30th this year. There's a workshop on the 28th, workshop day on the 28th. We have a community track that has about 20, 24 sessions that we are, that we're going to be doing community sessions for. And CDF will have its own track as well. So I am going to be starting a a CFP committee to work with me on the submissions for the community track. So I'm looking for volunteers to basically review the submissions, grade it, and kind of work with me to assemble what the agenda should look like for the community track at DevOps world. And it's also going to be online. Does DevOps world replace Jenkins world? Yes. In addition to, okay. So it's effective starting from 2020. And what are the topics for the community tracks? Well, culture, what are people doing with regards to Jenkins and open source, how are people growing the community? So all things community and all things open source, basically. But I think the theme of the conference, and this isn't yet really confirmed, but it's about it's building the future of software delivery together. The pressure to type well is always high when you're watching, right? I think it's impossible to do. I don't do that very well. Are there any other opportunities for community collaboration? Because maybe we could do another contributor summit around the DevOps world dates? Sure. For example, 27th or maybe 30th. Yeah, let's talk about it and then we can see what the needs are. Yeah, so just keep it in mind because, yeah. Anything else on DevOps world? Oh, that's it. Thank you. Like, would it be okay if we talk briefly about contributor summit? Of course. So for everyone's information, the contributor summit proposal is in the email. The idea is February 23 through 25. We'll have an online series of sessions. We have an in is actually interested in possibly using the same technology stack as was used for FOSDM for this exercise. I'm more worried right now about how do we do the registration process? How do we assure that we get people's interests and that they understand which tracks might be happening, etc. So I'll start, I'll continue actively sending emails through the rest of this week. The idea being that by the end of this week, people should know and be repeatedly hearing this thing is going to happen. My tendency right now is to just use an online Google Sheet to allow people to register. They put their name in it and we use that. I can consider other techniques like sign up genius or you choose it, but I was just looking for something simple and easy. Oh, well, we could just do Google form. Oh, yes. Okay. I mean, I'd rather do form than sheets just because sheets will leak information. Oh, right. Right. Okay. Good. Thanks. Good insight. Yeah. So we actually do not need too much information for registration. So we can use it just to collect feedback who is interested in which topics. So basically use it as a form to suggest whatever conference topics. And we don't need to collect emails or whatever. Well, maybe optional. I like the idea of not necessarily reconnect collecting emails. That's great. The less information we collect, that's personally identifying the better. When you said like FOSDM, do you mean like actually get the matrix set up and everything or just have some chat rooms? That's what he was thinking, is actually running the matrix set up. And for me, it was an interesting idea of, hey, if we wanted to do a sort of first class experiment of trying a different way of communicating with each other, the matrix set up they used would be very interesting. And he was interested in it. I'll check with him early next week to see if his interest is still there. At minimum, we'll use Zoom and do it the way I'm accustomed to doing it. Yeah, the only concern there is FOSDM was running their own matrix set up. So they had everything hosted on their servers, their home servers. I don't know if you would want to do the same for Jenkins, but then you'd have to decide if we want to have like another set of credentials. We use LDAP credentials. And I don't think we necessarily want a lot of more people signing up for LDAP credentials just because. So it gets complicated. Right. And that's where I'm sort of delegating or leading that to Olivier. My fallback position is to assume that we'll use Zoom. And if Olivier proves that, hey, we've got this other thing that could work, I'm open to it. Good question, Gavin. Excellent question. I do really like the breakout stuff in Zoom. It works really well. So regarding the Configure Summit, do we already have all tracks in place? We have a number of tracks in place, but I don't yet have active, I don't yet have good information from people who will act as track leaders. So I've identified a security track, a developer onboarding track, a documentation track. And I think there were two or three others that I haven't put into that. Oh, pipeline authoring track. And so we've got some tracks, but I am confident that we need more tracks based on people's interest levels. And my intent is to send direct invitations to specific individuals, asking them, would you be willing to lead this track or this track? That kind of thing. So those are the topics I had also identified Cloud Native and Carla Delamarca is interested and ready to lead that platform. User experience. So Felix has agreed to do a presentation in the opening session, summarizing user experience, but I'm not yet confident we've got enough interest to have a full track on user experience. So that's still one that Uli, you may be interested in that one enough to be the track lead. Yeah, I think I would like to participate, but I'm not sure if there are a lot of other people who are normally not around. So, yeah, so, and that's, that's where this exercise of trying to collect who the people are that are interested and their interests is an important one. So I'll, I'll, I think the Google form is a good idea to allow us to survey people's names and identify areas of interest where what I do is put these things as checkboxes that they could select and then also an open field or several open fields where they can give us additional topics they would like covered. Yeah, and we can just get pre and conference slots. So not just additional topics, but maybe wider slots. So that's why it makes sense to start the registration early so that you can get more information about what are the interests. Yeah, so now when you say wider slots, Oleg, are you thinking things like a combination of security infrastructure and releases? That is that what you mean by a wider slot or tell me more what you mean by a wider slot? I mean, so, for example, we have for this introduction sessions, and then, for example, we can reserve, let's say, one hour for public account sessions, or maybe the same one hour before the closing. Ah, I see. Okay, good. So where we could do just breakout sessions allow people to in those breakout sessions that are attached to the opening or the closing session. So they spend time in the breakout. Great. Okay. I like that. I think that's a good use, and that's a use I had not considered making of Zoom's breakout sessions where we could consider going 90 minutes in the welcome session presentation, add 30 to it for breakout sessions, and let that be the initial organization of these tracks. So then they can find when their times work for them to meet, have a good conversation. I'm very good. Thanks. Well, to make it successful, we just need to start on conference topics earlier. Right. If it works, it's great. Super. Okay. And that's really all that I had on Contributor Summit. Thanks for the guidance on Google Forms and on the, that will widen the initial session to 120 minutes, 90 minutes of presentation, plus 30 minutes breakout. That's all that I had. Yeah. I mean, other than I'm excited to see searching and plug in the site soon, but I don't know if that's governance. Well, actually, that's, that's a contributor summit topic and searching is coming to the plug-in site. I like that. I'll prove searching. Yeah. Sorry, say that again, Gavin. I said improved searching. There's already searching. All right. But it's search with AI. I think you have to pay lots of money for that feature. We can pretend it's there, you know. Okay, got it. That's great. But if that experiment works out, it might be a nice drill it into the main site as well. And search for the dock site is certainly a topic for contributor summit. For the contributor summit, I've never actually been to those events, but would it be worth having topic about, I guess it'd be more something I would just pitch in the forums, but how to get your company involved in Jenkins or open source? Yeah. Outreach. Yeah. Usually we have contributor on the boarding table. But outreach is more like Jenkins people reaching out to companies. I was thinking about you as in someone in a company wanting to get your people more involved, you know, because I know it's a topic. I've always had issues at certain companies. They've always been excited, but they've never really done anything and use an employee. Like I'm really excited about the thing. How do I get someone to help out? Yeah. Good topic. I like that. I think that's that's a very good one. Could we provide a kit? Could we provide a packet that says, hey, here's what you can do at our company and here are the things that you need to check to be sure that your company allows it. And this is what you can do and this is what you can't. And stress the small things. You don't have to do giant contributions. You can do tiny little ones. Right. So basically it boils down to previous presentations about how to contribute, etc. We give some sections for companies as well. So basically it boils down to ask your manager. Yeah. Now, there is a piece there, though, that's subtle. At least there has been in past employers for me where sometimes the employer had very specific rules about what you were allowed to do or not allowed to do contributing outside the company and learning how to ask those questions. So at least, you know, the answers might be a valuable thing to have in the toolkit. Ask your manager, are you allowed to contribute documentation? Yeah. Am I allowed to contribute, you know, bug reports? Am I allowed and see if their answer is no or yes and yes with caveats? Or even things like, I made this interesting pipeline. Can I talk about it in a blog post? Right. Right. Exactly. It doesn't have to be on Jenkins.io. Like their own company can talk about it. Well, and we have experience with Alyssa on some things where we had individuals who we thought had permission and there were some surprises, right? So it's important to know how to ask the right questions to the right people. Yeah. That's all that I had, Oleg. Nothing from me. Any other topics? No. So the next meeting is 24th of February. I guess we can safely say that instead of doing a common meeting, we can do it as a part of the contributor summit. At least find a slot and attach it there, or maybe use the same time slot, but make it a part of the contributor summit agenda. Good. Yes. I like that. Thank you. Maybe it will help to get more participants here. All right. I assume that's it then. We need to talk about Mark's awesome trademark find. I'm right into the response right now. Yeah. That definitely doesn't need to be on the recorded meeting. We can do that by email. Okay. Let's take it offline then. Thanks, everybody. I'll post the recording hour or so.