 Greetings, greetings, greetings. And thank you so much for joining us for week 10. Week 10, can you believe it? Of 10 weeks in Jamaica, Theta Conversations from Jamaica to the World. Bittersweet. I'm Magalie Neff, co-founder and co-artistic director of Akiba Abaka Arts. We are an international theater production company that creates plays, concerts, talks, and processes for making plays, concerts, and talks for the global stage. 10 weeks in Jamaica, Theta Conversations from Jamaica to the World is a talk series that has been featuring Jamaica's leading theater pioneers and practitioners. Each week, these amazing artists have been sharing their behind-the-scenes stories of Jamaica's theater community and have been offering their visions for the future. We are very grateful to work in collaboration with Ms. Nadine Rawlins, the amazing Nadine Rawlins, founder of Raw Management Agency and co-curator of this series. Raw Management Agency is an esteemed talent agency representing artists and groups across all genres in film, television, theater, voiceovers, branding, and endorsements. This series is made possible by our publisher, HowlRound.com, a free and open platform for theater makers worldwide, and our sponsor, the Martin E. Segal Theater Center at the City University of New York in Manhattan. Now, whether you're joining us for the first time or you have been very faithful and have been watching us weekly, since we started this series on November 1st, we wanna say thank you very much for being in our audience today. We are internally grateful for you. I like to invite you to go ahead and click the subscribe button down there and be a part of our growing family. And while you're there, go ahead and click the bell and be notified of our upcoming projects and engagements from our channel. And you might as well just go ahead and follow us on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. We are Akiba Abaka Arts on all platforms. And now, at this time, it is my pleasure to introduce the hostess with the mostess, the other co-founder and co-artistic director of Akiba Abaka Arts, Akiba Abaka. Let me tell you, this woman is all that at a bag of chips, the spicy chips though, not just the little plain chips, the hip-hop chips. Remember those hip-hop chips? Hey! Hey! Yeah. I'd like you please to get at the corner store for 25 cents a bag. And you like them so much, you get a couple of extra. Honey barbecue. That's you. Oh man, Maggily, it's so great to be with you again, week 10. And I don't feel like week 10 is the end. I think week 10 is the end. Oh, well, you and I know it's not. It's the end, maybe in this series per se, but it is not the end at all. No. It's also a real opening for conversations. It's the beginning of conversations in this space. We set a goal to tell stories of Jamaica and Jamaican culture that is not always exported on Brand Jamaica. And I feel that over the past 10 weeks, we've accomplished that. We've seen the history with the little theater movement and Miss Lou and the pantomime. We spoke with Oliver Samuels and Brian Heap about their days at the ward, even being able to hear a different perspective on Oliver, how he entered into the world of theater and some of those stories that we'd never heard before. Brian Heap gave us the history of the multi-diverse narratives of folks on the theater even prior to the 20th century, even prior to the founding of the ward. And that was so helpful. And then we continued speaking with the playwrights in the next generation and learning about the queer narratives that are emerging on the Jamaican space. And now we are here in the Afrofuturism, talking about Afrofuturism, what does that mean? What does that mean for us? Where does that take us? And again, I just think this is an incredible time to be looking at Jamaica right now. Yeah. So what are you looking forward to in this conversation? Oh my gosh, just hearing what our guests have to say really, all that they have to share and just be, I'm always looking to learn something. You know what I mean? What did I not know before? Or what did I know and sort of hadn't thought about in a while and need to really think more on and act on? So yeah, I'm just hoping to just soak, I still have my notebook here, my trusty notebook and my friend, we'll see how that's gonna work. But yeah, I'm just hoping to just continue and to just learn, man, just soak up, steal some ideas. And for a first, you are gonna actually stay in the conversation this week. I am, I am. You are not gonna leave us, you are gonna ride this out because for those watching, Magalie is a master teaching artist. Magalie has been working with young people in Boston from ages seven to 70, because we got some 70 year old young people as well. But mainly working with youth and teens in the way of theater. And the topic of Afrofuturism definitely comes up with the population that she works with. So Magalie is joining us as our expert to the next generation in the conversation. So let's get on with it. Afrofuturism is a practice that elevates black liberation, survival and advancement. It is represented in the arts, literature and science fiction, fashion, spirituality and in the dreams and aspirations of African diaspora people coming of age in the 21st century. In the theater, Afrofuturism caters to the creation and the uncovering of myths that inform blackness. Jamaican authors, Nalo Hopkinson and Jean DeCosta are among the many Afrofuturists along with Octavia E. Butler of our time. As we enter the third decade of this 21st century, it's 2021, two of Jamaica's leading Renaissance artists join us for this conversation on how Afrofuturism shows up in the Jamaican stage. Tanya Batson is a playwright, filmmaker, publisher and creative consultant. Her love of stories grew while she was seated like many of us at her grandmother's feet where she developed a passion for folktales that shares through in her first collection of children's stories, pumpkin belly and other stories. Her play, Woman Tongue, received eight actor boy nominations and her short film endeavor earned the award for best script in the King's Tune Enemy Festival. Her writing has appeared in the Caribbean Beat, BIM, the Jamaican Journal, Caribbean Quarterly and the Sky Writings Magazine. She is the producer of the animated short film, Agwe, and served as production manager on the short film, City of Mine. Tanya has been creative consultant for the Auntie Rochi Festival and Arts in the Park Project. And many of you may know Auntie Rochi is associated with Miss Lou. Miss Lou used to say my Auntie Rochi used to say. She's also the chair of the Lignum Vice Awards and the president of the Jamaica's Writers Society. Tanya is currently publisher and editor-in-chief of the online magazine Susumba, and it's literary offshoots Susumba's book bag as well as the award-winning independent publishing house, Blue Banyan Books, the fastest growing trade book publisher in the English-speaking Caribbean. Welcome, Tanya. Thank you so much for having me. It is great to be here. It is absolutely fantastic. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Tanya, it is an honor to be in conversation with you today. Michael Holgate is a prolific creative artist who consistently produces works in multiple disciplines. He has spent over two decades exploring the world of theater, dance, music, film, and writing. His body of work includes Garvey, the musical, the new TV series Chill, the novel Night of the Indigo, and he is co-author of the self-help manual Your Empowerment, GPA. On screen, Michael has worked as performance coach and audition judge with the Digicel Rising Stars show on television Jamaica and played the role of Bubbo in the 2004 Jamaican feature film One Love featuring Kimani Marley. He is currently the head of the Philip Sherlock Center for the creative arts at the University of the West Indies as well as a part-time lecturer and external examiner at the Edna Manley College of the Arts. Michael is also the artistic director of the Ashe Company. Welcome, Michael. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me and I'm excited to be in conversation with you and Tanya and everybody else. It's gonna be fun. This is a privilege and a treat. Happy to be in conversation with you. So let's just start this thing off by talking about Afrofuturism for a second. Let's frame Afrofuturism. You know, when I think about Afrofuturism I think of it as a kind of cultural tool or a cultural vehicle for me to think about my past, my present and my future as a Black African woman. I call it my Afrofuturistic kaleidoscope. You know, and like a kaleidoscope you look into it and things are positioned in a certain way that allows you to see multiple perspectives and the perspectives are endless and they're beautiful and they're grand and they're intricate in their design. And when I think about what's in my Afrofuturist kaleidoscope I think about Bob Marley's Redemption song. Recall that song for a second. Let's just grab that song. I'm not going to sing it because we don't have the copyright. One, I can't sing. Two, I don't want the Marleys coming after me. So, but think about the song, you know, it's a telling of a man in his contemporary time telling this story. This is where they captured me. They brought me here. I fought, I struggled. But my favorite line in that song is we forward in this generation triumphantly. And when I think of Afrofuturism, that particular part of the song just speaks to me. It's the thing I like to look at most. What's in your Afrofuturist, Futurism kaleidoscope Miss Tanya? You know, it is interesting that while I have been aware of the term Afrofuturism, it is, it's not a term I would have prior to your inviting me to be a part of this conversation. It's not a term I would have applied to Jamaica. And the reason is simple. I'll give it, I'll give it an example. A few years ago I was in China and the organizer of the program there, and they were in, I get my directions. She was deep in China, in Nanchai, and they were just opening up. So they're not that much in touch with the quote-unquote Western world, right? And so she asked, where is Jamaica? So I said it's in the Caribbean. And she's like, oh, it is. I thought it was in Africa. And I responded, some days it is. Because there is a way in which in many ways many Jamaicans, and to be exact, many black Jamaicans identify themselves as Africans. And we have not generally seen the need to use Afro as a definition for us. It is presumed that what we are is African. And so it's not a term I would have thought of for us. I tended to think of it in relation to African-American. But just as you described in your definition, there have been Jamaican artists who've been working in that form in different ways. And so for me, it is about taking the ground, the groundation, the traditions, the myths, all of that, that makes up Jamaica. And you use it to translate the present and then slingshot that into the future. It is what Rex Netalford describes as inward stretch, outward reach. I don't know if anybody has seen me on the dance floor. No, I have no business on the dance floor. But the description is perfect for you. Look inside to extend your imagining of yourself and your reality into the future. I love that. And I think you call in another Afro-futurist, Dr. Rex Netalford, if ever there was one such person. But inward stretch, outward reach, brilliant. Magali, what's in your Afro-futurist kaleidoscope? What are you seeing? Yeah, for me, I hear that and I think stories. You know, stories, stories through music, through poetry, through the oral telling. And I remember Octavia reading somewhere, Octavia Butler saying, I don't remember what she was responding to. But she said, I just knew there were stories I wanted to tell. And I thought, yeah, that's me. You know, whether it was writing or listening through song and how do we bring this song forth, other than just singing it? What's another way we can get the message of this song out? Same thing with the poem, right? Our first instinct is to recite the poem and our best cadence. But what are other ways we can bring it alive? And that's the thing with stories, right? Is really finding the different ways to bring them alive, to share them, however you get them. And that's what I see and that's what I always think of. And I feel like we are a story, right? So years from now, we are a story that someone is going to tell and to talk about and share. And so for me, it's about the stories and all their forms, again, through music, through poetry, through oral telling, and then sharing those stories. Awesome. Michael, what are you seeing in your Afrofuturist kaleidoscope? So when I hear the term Afrofuturism, Black Panther, that's just the first thing. When I heard Black Panther, that thing that just took over the world, it just blew our minds. When I saw that production, I was just like, wow. Not because it was something that we couldn't have imagined, but because it was something that was dared to be imagined and put out there for the world to see and appreciate and everybody loved it, you know. And I fell in love with... Well, for me, Afrofuturism is a cultural aesthetic based in philosophy, based in technology, advanced technology, things we're not making yet. And so that is how I read it. And also in fantasy. And I think that it's extremely important that we as Black people, we as Jamaicans, we as Caribbean people, we as the world embrace this because there's so much that we have to learn from the spirituality side of Africa and the technology side that the world has to offer. And from Africa and from Jamaica. And I'd interviewed a guy by the name of Kwame Kwe-Arma some time ago. My friend, Kwame Kwe-Arma! And he spoke about what he called the technology of spirit. I was interviewing him for some research that I was doing. And he spoke about the technology of spirit. And when I heard that term, it just blew my mind because I was just thinking the technology of spirit. That is an embodiment of what Afrofuturism is for me. You know, Michael, I once read somewhere where you talked so eloquently about the need and the importance for Afrofuturism at this time. And you stated there is a gap between who we are, who we were. There's a gap between who we were, who we are, and who we could have been. And in that space, in that gap, there is this thing that we need to rediscover. Can you elaborate on that? Because I think that really centers this culture and this tradition of Afrofuturism. Yeah, so that is really what the basis of the research that I'm focusing on now, which I call Caribbean Mythory. And it's about, as you said, who we were, who we are, and who we could have been. Because who we were, there's a gap, there's a big gap between who we were and who we are now, a 400-year gap where there has been a lot of this location and stuff that happened. And then who we are now, we are an amalgamation, a mix of things of so many different cultures, but still based in our African identity. And who we could have been is where we could have gone had that 400-year thing not happened. So now there is something in that space. There is something in that space that is powerful. It's like a triangulation, a triangular space, not the one that is causing claims to disappear, but maybe what is a triangular space of power and energy and vibrancy and life. And we can tap into it as African people, as Jamaican people, as everybody. And so I'm tapping into it and calling my tapping in, not Afrofuturism, but Caribbean Mythory and looking at how we can use this to empower black people, empower young people who are black. Jamaicans, Caribbean people. And that's what I'm seeing. I love the way you frame that. This idea of a magnetic flow that's always been here. I love also what you're saying, Tanya, that this has always been here. It's like currency. It's like the currents in a river or electrical currency and magnetic seals. And the lives we've lived and the lives we are living and the lives we are to live is creating and growing this field. That is awesome. That's awesome. Electricity has always been about. Sorry, Tanya, for jumping in. Electricity has always been about. But we learned how to tap into it at a particular time in our history. This thing, and I do believe that there is this, as Kwame Koyama said, this technology of spirit that we have been tapping into over a period of time as Africans in the diaspora, and especially now it's the artists who are leading the way. The artist is obviously leading the way, and technology will catch on to the technology of spirit. Technology will catch on to the creative technology that is being put out there by us artists. Nice. Tony, are you going to say something? What I found interesting, and it swings back to your introduction where you mentioned Ginda Costa as one of the, as one of the Jamaicans who looked at Afrofuturism, and it talks, it links back to what Michael is saying about making of Mithry. Now, a lot of us in school did escape Palathewan Peak, but I bet most of us didn't think of it as futuristic. And I always... You just framed Escape to Last Men Peak. I know you're going to talk a little bit more about it later on when we talk about your work, but Escape to Last Men Peak was a... Escape to Last Men Peak was a novel written in 19... It was published in 1975. Why am I forgetting that? It's the same age as me. It was published in 1975. And what it does is it looks at 10 Jamaican orphans in a time when a virulent flu has wiped out much of the Jamaican population, and they're left alone, and they have to make their way to safety from Spanish town way up into the hills of Falmouth, where Last Men Peak is. And so that book, those setting that written in the 1970s and the author doesn't declare a time, when I interviewed her, as you said, we'll talk about it, when I interviewed her, we're having a conversation. And she says, she never imagined it in 1970s Jamaica. She imagined it at some point in the future. So it is interesting that, you know, 2020 happened. But yeah, but so she was a writer working in that, making Mithry imagining a futuristic landscape, a futuristic dystopian landscape but we never grappled with it as science fiction, we just grappled with it as fiction, you know, and how we name these things and how we explore these things and what we think our writers are doing, you know, is a thing, and that's what Michael is talking about as well, are catching up. We as Jamaicans are playing catch up with what people were doing quite some time ago. And by people, I mean other Jamaicans, Jamaican artists were doing quite some time ago as we understand, you know, the multiple layers and the levels of what they were working with, that we were producing these things way before these labels were invented even though we never used that label. You know, yeah. That's a great segue actually, because I'm listening to what you both were saying about how Afrofuturism lives for you. And so I'm wondering, what are you working on? What are you working on and how does Afrofuturism show up in your work? I'm going to jump off since I was just talking and since it's a good segue because one of the things I'm currently working on is through a production company, Have a Ball, a company I run with Annalisa Chapman. We recently acquired the right to, we recently acquired the option to turn Escape to Last One Peak into a film and I've been working on the script for that. So that's one of the things I'm working on. I'm also working on a script for a animation, a Jamaican animation series based on Jamaican folklore, which is also set in a futuristic past is how I'm going to describe that. And it's the working title is All High. And so that plays with the idea of the All High, which is a woman who sheds her skin and turns into a ball of flame. And so through that story, I'm exploring female empowerment and fire, not in the concept of bonafire, but just in the concept of fire as a redemptive force as well as a force that can be destructive or it can provide a space to rebirth depending on how it is used. And of course, I'm working in publishing. I continue to run New Banyan books and Blows and Skirt books. Yeah, and that's what I'm doing. You know, you talk about old hag, I remember, I wasn't old enough to read to get too far into the reading in Jamaica, but I used to read my brother and sister's books. And that story, that myth used to scare me. And it scares me today. And when I think about Caribbean people and how we work inside of affin futuristic spaces, you know, those stories are just as myth, even as mythology, they're very visceral stories. How are you going to bring old hag into the 21st century? Well, look at it this way. And the couple of times I've done soft pitches to people and I explained the old hag myth and they're done to make us, they go, wait, what? And that's the story of the children? What? So what it is, and I haven't yet read this novel, but it's on my to read list. And Cordella Forbes, whom I just finished her ghost, she again also does Afrofuturism without using the label. I just finished her, her novel ghosts and she explores this old hag myth as well in a tall history of sugar, which is on my to read list and I want to see that, but it's about taking an idea, a base idea. And this idea is supposedly the old hag is an evil creature who sheds her skin. And you know, and I'm like, why do we have to presume she is evil? So it's about questioning some of these presumptions. What is it? The evil witch, when you think about Dorothy, I thought about the other day, I was like, hold on. Dorothy is supposed to be the good girl, right? She, her house fell on the witch, killed her and she stole her shoes and she is supposed to be the good person. Maybe we should question some of these narratives. You know, and so how I bring it into the future is to question that narrative, to take a myth which yet is scary and is, but is interesting, peel back some layers, use other elements of the culture, look into it and hopefully create something new and exciting. And truthfully, if Harry Potter, if Harry Potter can come into this time period, why all high come into this time period? It's not the same, but you know, it's the same. It is, it is. For me, what I'm working on at this point in time is production called Riot Act. So with the Asher company, we have a, we now have a production house that does film and video and live streaming and that type of stuff. And so I'm taking this opportunity to rework a script that I had before called Riot Act. And Riot Act looked at, what is Afrofuturism on stage? And it looked at how the Dottie Buchmann, who was a Jamaican who went to Haiti and helped to kickstart their Haitian Revolution with a prayer and how his bones were transferred back to Jamaica. Somehow it was placed in a museum and some people came to experience, you know, to look at the exhibit and they were taken away into a black space, you know, and Dottie Buchmann is the spirit that transferred them to this black space where they learned so much more about themselves, about blackness, black identity, black consciousness. And so that's the production that I'm working on now and it's called Riot Act. And I'm making it into a film. I'm pivoting somewhere. You know, you mentioned Buchmann and people have this sort of, they think either he's Haitian or he's Jamaican and they don't see the connection and the role that he played. And so it's amazing that this story is coming out or is being worked on. I'm at the stage of reworking the script because it was actually originally done for theater and it was staged. I think Tanya reviewed it and it didn't give a good review, Tanya, but Tanya reviewed it if I remember correctly and now we're reworking it as a film. And what, I just want to hear more about sort of like what he means to you and why you chose this story. You know, interestingly, I was working on the production. I was working on Riot Act and I was really talking about all Jamaican heroes. So Paul Bogus, Sam Sharp, George William Gordon were talking about what they meant to us as Jamaicans. And as I always do with my productions, I did some research and I went and did some interviews with a lady by the name of Alice Berry and she said something about, and you know, the in-pass in Dirty Bookman and blah, blah, blah. And I said, Dirty Who? And then she said, you don't know who Dirty Bookman is. And I said, no. She said, big, big you, big grown man, you don't know who Dirty Bookman is. I said, no, because I did not, there are certain things we just don't learn in schools. There are certain things we don't learn in schools and maybe, maybe Tanya did learn, maybe some other people learn in schools, but I just was not in that class. And so I became fascinated and I said, no, I have to include this as part of the story. And that's also what it is that, you know, we're doing with Afrofuturism because I think it's important that Afrofuturism is a way of bringing alive myths that are our myths that we did not know were our myths. You know, stories, histories about our people that have not been included in our education system. But no, we're just splitting it for other people. I mean, if we just throw it on the people in a certain way, they will not necessarily get it or really or appreciate it in the way as if you put it in a story. If you put it in a story as a myth, as something futuristic but from the past and allow them to live it in this fantastical fantasy world, it's a different thing. They still get the information, they still get the message, they get the empowerment and they don't reject it. And that's what I love about the whole concept of Afrofuturism and that is how I have been using it and I'm sure the same for Tanya. You know, just want to jump in here with an observation. As you talk about Old Hag and Dutty Bukman and what we learned as children and how these stories were told to us. One of the things that I really love about Afrofuturism is it's definitely, it starts in the United States or it's named in the United States somewhere in the early 90s African-American Continental African-Americans who are coming of age in the new millennium they're the ones who really took it up and in some ways it's kind of like African-American it's like an African-American punk movement but I never like to say this is like this I think a thing is what it is you know and inside of it however is this opportunity to fill in the gaps about what we know about Africa what we know about what happened to us on the different lands the different bodies of land on this side of the globe for example I remember when Fella came out and I think that's when I first started getting to Afrofuturism was when Fella the musical about Fella Couté was on Broadway because that culture really turned out to Broadway they showed up and they showed out at the theater so you know Magalie is of Haitian descent and Dutty Bukman is Magalie's and she grows up knowing that Bukman is her there's a whole band called Bukman Experience that is, it's theirs Haiti has, he is their hero I grew up in Jamaica and it's not until in my 20s at the University of the West Indies that I learned that Bukman is mine that Bukman was Jamaican but through the arts through this cultural vessel we can learn about different parts of our history in whether it's music, whether it's fashion whether it's science fiction people are telling bits and pieces of the stories that we're not necessarily getting from the academy and that's one of the things that I love Old Hyde is, and I've just learned is as much Trinidad it's because she's a Sukayant in Trinidad she's in Grenada she's all of ours so this culture kind of open sourced conversation into who we are as a global African people, this culture that is being formed and growing of Afrofuturism is allowing us to write and rewrite our stories would you say, Tanya? I definitely would and a part of what I love about what you said a while ago is talking about the gaps because there is so much that first let me say, Michael you never missed the class it wasn't in the class, right? there is so much more about all we were taught about it in ways that was just uninteresting and I'm sure we're going to talk about the future later so I won't want I don't want to go into that some more but the thing of it is that there is a lot we don't know about who we are where we've been and where we come from and some of that we need to unhurt through history some of that we need to imagine and we need to give ourselves permission to imagine and imagine differently and we keep behaving as though if something is not sanctified by a historian then we have no business thinking that and we need to step away from that there are ways in which and this phrase that goes in my head all the time is I'm sure he didn't make it up but I'm not sure where it came from it could be the Bible because I realize a lot of my favorite books were actually from the Bible where he says the half has never been told for black people it is way more than the half hasn't been told and I remember growing up my grandmother would often refer to people as readable which I thought was one word I didn't know what a readable was I didn't know it was a race of people it wasn't until I was at university and I was reading Tony Tony the song of Solomon Tony Morrison and she was talking about the Igbo and I was like oh my goodness the Igbo and Red Igbo that's what I'm trying to talk about disparaging me are the same people I remember would have made that connection and so there because this is not something we were taught it becomes a gap it's actually more than a gap you know of an absence of knowledge can I just I'm just going to contextualize something because you just hit I don't want that to walk away we are not going to leave what you just did on the floor we're going to pick it up we're going to look at it properly so Red Igbo because now you're going into my favorite topic which is language right because I believe we speak a Jamaican language we don't speak a Creole we do not speak a Patois that is compote that has that is formed by many other languages but we have our own language and when you think about Red Igbo I grew up knowing that word that's a derogatory term I'm going to just say it to all my life skin family members we call life skin people in Jamaica Red Igbo just like in America we call you say red bones red skin people and I grew up thinking that's what Red Igbo meant oh look at them they're red people you know I have people in my family call reds right so and I didn't put it together right the red ebos and there are a race of people who were red ebos and they would have come over on those on those boats so look and you use we talk about Afrofuturism or Solomon a book to really talk about we're going to learn who we are through these ring games we're going to learn continue go ahead you know I mean and so we I'm always going to come back to the world of books because books are my jam and I think a part of how we we can close that chasm is by one interpreting more of our books in different art and media and that is that is great and I talking about that Afrofuturist space is to look at the synergy that Hopkinson made with Derek Walcott the three brothers Tijon and his brothers Brown Girl in the Ring is a literary imagining of Tijon and his brothers talking about that Jamaican connection and then you know so it's reimagining that space looking at those ideas and I recently read Sylvia I keep thinking Sylvia Plath who is a very different person Sylvia Winto Sylvia Winto a Jamaican writer and academic ridiculously brilliant she did a novel The Hills of Hebron I think that was from the 60s it explores the to a degree it explores the flight of um what's his name um Michael help me out guy from Augustown I'm Mila no oh you're talking about um Bedwood he was uh he Bedwood was a minister and he and a Christian minister and they were gonna go in the tree and so I loved how so she takes a minister um a charismatic preacher and builds a story around him not set in Augustown but it is interesting how that book um which is not it so it has that line and when you read Kaimela's Augustown which is also a part of that looks at that from a whole different lens it it looks like a forward to Kaimela's Augustown but at the same time in a very different way um you look at John Cole's Devil by um Marlon James and it also feels like a descendant of this book so there's ways in which our artistry is having conversations and a lot of these conversations in the space of rebuilding myth because I think a lot of times um maybe it's because we spend too much time by ourselves artists reflect on the absences and find ways to fill them and I think in that um and I'm going to say to I'm not going to say it's your word um Michael because I'm not borrowing it from you I'm taking it from Erna Broadwell to take you into that black space you know um you find that the artists are communing there even when they're not talking to each other even when they may not have read each other's work and that's one thing where the work is is is creating a resonance and it is because of these gaps you know these spaces that need to be filled and that's what a part of this this rebuilding on our myth you know taking us and filling us out and and showing a way more dynamic and way more versatile and way more well imagined image than than we can have and and I would love to get started on Paul Boga but I'm not going to stop but I'm listening to you all talk and I'm listening to um you all talk about the stories that need to be told and you know you're not hearing the stories to you know certain points of your life and then I think about the future right and how important these stories are for us now and in the future and then in time you're talking about reimagining and me being the person of the youth right I'm thinking you know as we as you as all of us imagine the future how do you envision the the role of the youth right and what is their role in this reimagining right when you think of our youth you know how you know how are they part of the process I think I think the first thing we have to make sure before we get to their role in order for them to have their role right let me let me first say what I enjoy about today's youth is that and it's also what I find most frustrating um I'm over 40 I can be allowed to be crotchety um what I find most frustrating is they're not waiting they're not waiting on permission they're not waiting to get enough experience or just doing their life I want to I want to write a book now okay I'm 12 years old I'm going to write this book and I'm going to get it published because it's possible and there's a way in which you might go child sit down and learn first but then there is a way in which I also have to go man if I had thought to do that when I was 12 I would be in a whole different space right now so even while my my old woman self wants to be like sit down and learn first I also have to respect that and that is a beautiful thing about today's generation and they also have so much more access that is that that to a lot of things that I do not have to wait on seeing it in a classroom that said what we have to make sure we do is we have to make sure that there is stuff for them to access because we have allowed too much to get lost right we have allowed too much of the stories to go on told there's just too much that they do not know and we have forced them to think of things as reading as uncool and it's not because they're not interested it's because you know we're going to be like no stop playing the tech about book and and the tech about book is a punishment you know we need to allow them the freedom to be yes they need you know as talking to a parent recently like don't feel bad about disciplining your child there's a reason God invented parents you know kids be crazy they cannot raise themselves they do need some guidance and structure but what we need to do differently and it's one of the things previous generations may not have done as well in an attempt to make sure we raise with manas is that you know there there there may have been too much raining in and so we need them to have that freedom to imagine and reimagine differently and and think about themselves as a part of the picture you know it is it is a critical part of imagining in that way of seeing yourself because I I don't remember when I thought my being a writer was an actual thing I remember always loving stories and always writing but I didn't grow up thinking a writer was something I would become and it's not because nobody ever told me I couldn't be a writer it was more that I didn't understand that it was a thing I could be you know and so that is what I want to see for young people I want us to just you know mash down the whole concept of the box if they want a box they will build the box themselves you know but it's just to open up that the whole world for them to reimagine how they see themselves in it that was really long-winded perfect and it's beautiful and I think that what's important is seeing themselves in it yes I agree but seeing themselves as powerful beings in it it's the empowerment of our young people that we want to talk about and that empowerment comes it's just like what Black Panther did for a generation or a generation the generation before us the generation after us is I mean it's how only poor people were impacted by Black Panther because we could see a Black man in a position of power an entire race our race of people from a special place in positions of power creatively exhibiting all that they want to exhibit demonstrating all they want to demonstrate and in the same way that a Harry Potter could make these young kids from England and all around the world feel like you know I might be a little wizard and I might be able to do these wonderful things and I might be able to do this and that and so on it's the same thing for our Black kids they need to see themselves in productions they need to see themselves in films they need to see themselves as these little genius power kids who can do things because those that that kind of imagining as Tanya has been saying taps into a certain part of our brain a part of our mind and that it explodes and gives us opportunities and possibilities and probabilities that we never thought were possible before so just because you might not be a Black Panther who can fly off the roof of a car and roll and not get hurt and stuff like that doesn't mean that seeing a Black Panther character will not give you a sense that metaphorically you can fly you and all of these things and is what this Afrofuturism does for us that is what this fantasy does for us this Black fantasy it can interject Michael wonderfully put but if I if I could just edit you a little bit and point out that one of the key parts of the beauty of Black Panther wasn't just the male figure but the predominance of well of strong diverse female characters and I use diverse with a common D to mean the multiplicity of female characters because usually in superhero movies the women don't really matter they're not even side kick they're in the shot clothes just for the shot clothes sake you know you're like why are you wearing that you know I mean and what one of the great things about Black Panther that the film did right is that it really properly developed the female characters and it is very important that we develop both sides of our schism you know the male side as well as the female side and the fluidity in between right indeed you know we can break down Black Panther and you know I can especially and you know my favorite aspect you talk about the women is the Amazon women that are in the warriors the sisters there because that's a myth that's an African myth that I was very proud of Marvel that they were able to get that in there and speaking of myths I am and touching on what you were saying Michael about the power about what is what is the role or what is the way so what is the opportunity for young people I really love what you have to say because the graphic for this week if you notice every week we have a different graphic we have we've been working with amazing graphic designers over the past 10 weeks and every week we have a different graphic and so this week it was just like what are we going to use as our background image for Afrofuturism what are we going to use what are we going to use it's the only thing that positions Afrofuturism in Jamaica for me and I remember when I was talking to the graphic designer and saying I know it's a spider web but let me tell you that's more than a spider web and this thing a spider man ain't got nothing on a Nancy I grew up as a kid now I left Jamaica the very young tender age but one of the things I left Jamaica with was the Nancy stories and you talk about the power empowering young people through storytelling and myth theory right I remember nowadays I've heard since looking back into Jamaica I've heard a Nancy is not celebrated and well received anymore and he's considered a bad figure but when me was a bit me a Nancy was our hero and I remember being this you know of the youngest I've always been a little charity I've always been a little pushover looking kind of kid and I love but I'm not a pushover but what I love I love about a Nancy was he was a little spider so a girl like me I align myself with him he sounds like a Nancy's not big he's black he's a spider but he uses his mind and so I focus my mind in the classroom I remember when it was time to learn to read and write I said I'm going to be the best I'm going to win every week we had an award for best spoken English all of that and I remember thinking if a Nancy could use his brain and he was this little spider who could be crushed and I can do this and you know I just align myself with this little spider and inside of that there's so many stories so the preservation of these myths how are these myths showing up for both of you on the stage in the theater you talk about Caribbean Mythri can you break down Caribbean Mythri for us Michael? Okay so so just tapping very quickly into something that you just said which is that and Caribbean Mythri is about that it's what is in the gap it's the repositioning of all those characters and it's the re-powering of those characters and you said that you talked about you never knew that a Nancy was not necessarily revered he is in a way but as a trickster guard as a little a Nancy a Nancy is in that kind of talk we talk about a Nancy in that way and but that's also a kind of in the same way that Obia is talked about in a negative way when Obia is African spirituality and we need to re-look at it that is how European domination has in its own way insisted that African spirituality not be recognized in that particular way and so myth and Caribbean Mythri is really taking something from myth which is showing how supernatural creatures supernatural beings existed in the creative imagination and helped nations to identify themselves and so Germany has its own myths and the national identity of Germany follows along the lines of their mythic characters the same thing for the different regions around the world Caribbean we kind of got lost in that space again I talk about the 400 year gap a lot of stuff was missing but now we have access to it in this day and age we have access to it and so we can put from those supernatural ideas those supernatural characters those Orishas those gods from the African diaspora from the Caribbean diaspora we can pull and we have the right to pull from the European myth and the Chinese myth and because we have it all here and that is exactly what we're doing and so Caribbean Mythri does exactly that but in addition to that Caribbean Mythri does something that similar to what the national pantomime does which is you know there are these archetypes these called some in some stereotypes in the pantomime and if you talk to Brian he would have recognized talked about the day and he talked about the announce being there the supernatural being that comes off the coat of arms are different you know there are certain types of stuff so what I've done with Caribbean Mythri is ensure that there are five characters who are mostly if not all the time most of the time represented and these characters are the academic these characters first of all are people or sections of people who have been talking about blackness and black identity and what I've done is throw them into conversation with each other so the academic is there because the academics are studying stuff about blackness and identity but it's only of a U.A. or in the university that people are talking about it Rasta has always held the fort in terms of keeping blackness black consciousness going but if you're not Rasta you might just think about it you know some people don't talk necessarily like that anymore but some people are still on the fence with Rasta then you have the mother woman African spirituality they you know these people who have been holding the African identity together based on spirituality and spiritual concept so these characters are there and guess what I add in that two things I add a doppy character or an ancestral spirit that I add a bleacher youth a youth who is bleaching his skin why because he also needs to be included in the conversation about blackness about black identity he has a perspective his perspective might not be the one that we want to hear he might not be the person who is saying oh yes you must love your skin and love your skin color maybe he's the one who is saying look don't tell me about kings and queens of Africa first of all everybody could not be a king and queen in Africa how hierarchy works so we're not all kings and queens tell me about it and then the others have to explain and he can say all right so why is it that I have to do this now why do you want me to do this in one of the productions in God the musical one of the characters the bleacher character says to the says to Marcus Garvey himself he says you know what is interesting if you go downtown if you go downtown Kingston you will realize that every man pushing a handcart has three paintings on it at least Emperor Haile Selassie Marcus Garvey and Bob Marley but guess what they're still pushing a handcart so he has a perspective he has a perspective that needs to be heard and it's only in that Afro-futuristic perspective which I have coined in my way and works through in my form as Caribbean that people get an opportunity to hear his perspective alongside the perspective of the academic who has been doing the research and the African spiritualist and the ancestral voice the Orisha and in Jamaica we haven't necessarily had we don't have the shango and batala and and Yemen we don't have that directly in our culture as it is in Trinidad and in Cuba but we can appropriate it we can borrow it, we can take it we can use it and we can use them now to inform us and we can even use we have coming up so we can use our own ancestral spirits and our doppies to talk to us from their perspective of so many years ago this is what we went through you Bleacher Youth character because Magli and I are smiling because the Bleacher Youth are our students right and also the Bleacher Youth for me is trap reggae right now I know that trap excuse me trap hip trap dance all because then we say there's no trap reggae trap dance all but I think about that in the sense not not necessarily the Bleacher Youth would be listening to trap dance all in his iPod and whatever but in the sense that here is this drive this force this push towards escaping a reality that is oppressing me and I am going to make it it's almost like France for non said I'm going to make my I'm going to create something that's more oppressive than my oppressors and I'm going to make that my God and I'm going to create a trap and it's going to it's going to be abrasive to my oppressors and it's also going to be abrasive to me and I know it and I'm going to live in that space so I really love how you bring because usually you would never see if we bring in a youth you wouldn't see the Bleacher the kid bleaching his skin you know I'm not calling out no names but several of them are dancehall heroes today several of them are my dancehall heroes as well no gods are are none of that no names break pump break I love them but you know but yeah so Tanya speaking of and then you go into the mother woman Michael you talk about the Obia right Obia oh yes God don't say Obia don't say it it's a very Obia among Jamaicans you say Obia and Duffy you're going to lose friends but one of the works that you worked on here Tanya was you published one of the first Jamaican plays first written considered contemporary classic Jamaican plays you published about maybe three or four years ago Pacamania because Pacamania connects you know I'm just making this late because it connects to the mother woman one of the characters talk to us about that piece of work and then we're going to start taking some questions from the audience one of the interesting things about Pacamania is that it is you know there's a way with Yuna Morrison might have been a CL woman but I don't think she would have accepted that definition because in many ways she was a middle class black woman and so what she was looking at though was that pull for a black woman between that folk culture and the need for respectability and that is a part of the core that is a paradox in Jamaica and it's a part of the reason we are a space where we love ourselves and hate ourselves so much like Jamaica is often in a split where we're always ready to make a culture but we're also in a way in which there is so much about us that we should love including ourselves that we denigrate and at the core of that is that black folk culture things like Pacamania that speak to an African spirituality that because of slavery and colonialism we cannot contend with because contending with it is or accepting a label that says we are black and that is it and that is why Jamaicans before them said I'm like Tonka and Neil then would prefer to say them like polenta same blasted thing you know where we feel we have to turn the thing through the lens of some other respectability before we can accept it so you know Pacamania written in 19 performed in 1938 right looks at this woman she's always been pulled by the drums but she cannot answer to the drums and live her respectable middle-class life at the same time and that is a schism that is still in the Jamaica landscape so many more years later and it was considered to be the forerunner of the Jamaican play it was the first drama to use Jamaican to use Jamaican in it not in not as a way for creating laughter or comedy which was significant because many of us still see Jamaican as I think to talk when you are in informal space or to make a joke but it is not the space for serious academic is not the space for serious conversation and that's one of those battles that we still have to fight and that is a part of what Pacamania brings to the table you know yeah and I should note that we co-published it with the National Library of Jamaica nice so as we move into our question and answer segment of the talk one of our faithful listeners Chris I lead she comes in every week and gives us something to think about and to talk about and she says we should have a Jamaican and Caribbean version of Dark Matter the book on speculative fiction from the African diaspora the name plays on that matter that is not directly observed but whose existence is acknowledged by its gravitational effects and she says since this focuses on theater what would be a collection of under-presented Jamaican mythology for stage in a futuristic context or reimagined in that context well I'm not sure about I'm going to make Michael take the most direct part of the question in terms of what Jamaica plays you put in there but just to say that there is a Caribbean collection of speculative fiction which came out of People Tree Press edited by Karen Lord a couple years ago I'm not remembering the name right now yeah I don't remember the name but there is such a collection so you can go on the People Tree Press website and look up for that if that's work that you are interested in and also or publishing house books or imprint books or publishing books do put out work in that space we have two works of Caribbean fantasy fiction what three works of Caribbean fantasy fiction that's out there so if you're looking for contemporary work in that kind of space now over to you Michael answer the question I hope I can answer the question what I will say is that okay so I have a novel called Night of the Indigo which was also published in a fantasy fiction collection and it was edited by John Johnson from Trinidad yes and it's from Island Fiction the collection is called Island Fiction but I also believe that if you think about it a lot of the things the first book that you mentioned you said that we were looking at it as just fiction but it was also so those types of right those types of productions plays could also be included re-included in that kind of a collection pantomime stuff rewritten and refocused and you know give it because because what as I said before there is a spectrum there's a broad spectrum on what I would say is Afrofuturism and in fact you have productions like what the company puts out their reassured looks to me like Afrofuturism their reassured is a production that deals with issues in the present from the future mix it up with the past and repackages it in a way that is meant to empower us and give us a cultural aesthetic about Africa so it's a re-negotiate of our space positioning of our people and our gods and our spirituality and our identity a re-empowerment of us as black people around who we are so you know like what we're doing the reassured real and clean some of what the pantomime has put out and there are people around who are doing stuff I couldn't give you a name but I know that there is enough stuff that would go in a collection that would satisfy or qualify you know I'm glad you brought up reassured and I'm glad you brought up quilt because I've been stalking Ray on a claim for about eight months and when I say I'm stalking him I'm on his Insta I'm on his Facebook he was on the conversation last week and I was stalking him there too that play reassured needs to be seen Jamaica cannot keep that play to itself that is a healing vessel and it needs to be seen because we need that story and also Phillip Sherlock center can't keep that play to itself y'all got to get reassured out to every class room in Jamaica every primary and secondary school student in Jamaica needs to see grass digi-shell who are the big money people down there fund reassured and get it touring because that piece is some real serious healing we're going to get it we're going to get it we're going to get it we're going to get it about please fund and and get reassured out there I call my banker my banker is gonna be so busy and not even to say that he's my banker but i'll find one I'm going to I'm going to go to another question from TK Moore is one of our audience members and a lot of the people in the chat really want to know. Tanya, speaking a little slowly, can you name, because you're dropping gems, you're dropping some publishing gems. Would you mind just naming the place that you've published, the works that are yours, and also just some of the books, if you could just repeat some of the names of the books. And if it's too much, just say where we can follow up to get into this. So let me start with where you can follow up, so I don't forget. So our website is BlueBanionBooks.com, and you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at BlueBanionBooks, right? Banion like the tree, right? So that's the easiest one. So in terms of, for the fantasy books that we have done that I've mentioned, there is, we have two works by Iman Bash, who is out of Guyana. He's a brilliant mind, right? He is, he does beautiful mashups of folklore. So his first book, Children of the Spider, is a reimagining of Anansi in a contemporary space, which matches up African culture with contemporary Guyanese culture with European concepts. And he has a beautiful moment in their spoiler alert, where Anansi confesses that he actually went to New York and paid a guy to write a comic book about him. So that's the kind of ways in which he borrows all kinds of folklore and makes it his. And then his second work is called The Dark of the Sea, which it looks at, it reimagines the idea of mermaids, and it explores questions about racism and shadism, because shadism is very important in the Caribbean, right? Colorism appear. Right, yeah. And so The Dark of the Sea looks at that kind of stuff and reimagines the ideas of mermaids. He borrows from, I am the worst at names. It is, there's currently a show that does the same thing on HBO. It is taken everybody. What? American Gods, is it? No, not American Gods. It's, it's, oh God, it takes an American writer, the Sula, I don't remember his name. Oh my goodness, I can't remember. Lovecraft, right. So he borrows from Lovecraft. He has Hindu Gods. He has mermaids in there. He has Roman Gods and all kinds of things fighting in this one space under the Caribbean Sea, right, where he talks about what it means to be a hero and redefining what it is to be a hero. So he's a very interesting writer, that's Imambash. We also have, she has such a beautiful sense of humor, this writer out of Barbados Shakira born. We published the novel as, as my fishy step mom, where she looks at Mami Wata, the Mami Wata character, which is, I'm going to say she's a sister or cousin to the, the River Momo figure. And she, but it's set in contemporary Barbados, and it explores ideas of female empowerment, as well as father daughter love and friendship, and, you know, all of, all of this stuff. I think it's being republished in the, in the U.S. and the U.K., sometime this year or next year under a different name, but Shakira borns my fishy step mom. You can definitely look out for that if you're interested in seeing how Caribbean folklore is being reinterpreted. And just, I guess this is also it, my own collection of fiction for children, pumpkin belly and other stories also looks at that. I have included in that a River Momo story where a young girl encounters a River Momo and has to, to stage a strike. So it's very, it's really very contemporary, that kind of thing. You know, yeah, those, those are the things we have in fiction based on, based on what we have put out to, in fantasy fiction that we have put out so far. Awesome. Just, I know Magalie's going to jump in here, but real quick, and the Mamiwata character is a, of the Isha, because African cosmology. So to see her in the, in Barbados makes totally, total sense. And also what you're saying about the European gods fighting in the Caribbean waters. Yes they were fighting in the Caribbean waters honey, because let me tell you they had their gods' name on the name of their boats and we were in the vessel. So that's Afrofuturism. Now we are telling a news story, we were in the belly of those boats named after their gods. So it's not only fiction and fantasy, but you, it's historical fiction when they, when we start to write into these spaces, you know. I know Magalie has a question for us. So I'll step out on the way. Yeah well more about a comment that one of our viewers said and I'm reading it and I'm thinking huh, you know earlier Tanya you were saying how you had a hard time with the term Afrofuturism because as a Jamaican you know it's just like we're Jamaican, we're African, it's one right. So to separate it, it wasn't really something that you do right, it's all one. Well Mario says you know I think if Jamaicans were interacting with Africans more we would look at our own heritage differently. We need to have Africa as part of our daily lives, business, politics, culture. So what do you think about it? Any politically incorrect? You can do it. The thing is that they say they don't like us. Some people believe that the Africans don't necessarily, they call us the islanders and stuff like that. It's been said and so I'm just telling you and I believe in large measure it's a part of that kind of divide and conquer strategy which has been you know played against us for the longest time with the maroons and stuff like that. But one of the things that they say is that sometimes the Africans think of us as the ones who were taken away. Yeah, yeah in a way you know. So it's almost like the bastard child in a way and I'm not sure if I'm saying it correctly but I'm just telling you the kinds of things that I've heard and those are the things that we need to counter by doing exactly what Maria you said suggests that we should be in more dialogue so that we can get rid of those things if they're not true and if they are true then address them and deal with them that kind of thing. I'd like to add to that and I have heard that sentiment before but I think as well and this is you know this is I was writing a tweet earlier and I said I was responding to something and I was saying that it's true but like all truths it's not the whole story and so you know the so even when I say manage and see ourselves as such it is a schism again like I remember when I remember the first time I had an argument with Miss Lou of course Miss Lou wasn't there it was an argument in my head and I'm well brought up so wouldn't I did argue with Miss Lou to our face right and it was over colonization no um no back to Africa Miss Matty and I say this as and this was on like a third reading of back to Africa Miss Matty because like the first time I had I read that back to Africa me and Miss Lou were on the same page I was like what's talking about where to make on back to what right and then as my own politics and understanding grew and I was able to make more space for opinions that were different from mine so I was never at a back to Africa phase but I could I had grown to be able to respect and understand the value of that positioning and that was when I was like Miss Lou I had this the people them something say I can't just I can't just take it so you know and um and I remember there so there is a way in which whereas we often valorize the African it's a mythical Africa that we valorize and not what contemporary Africa is today so Mario is is really really right there is a way in which we need to reconnect I remember years ago when I was teaching so that was one long time ago um that we went to see that I forget the name of the movie anyway we went to see the movie and I was teaching high school and a fourth former came up to me and said Miss Africa is not country and because we often talk about Africa as though it is one space and it is because we don't engage with it much and it is and as much as we are talking about myth we hear and that is a truth that we need to explore we also need to have interactions with the contemporary with what Africa is and what Africa was you know that thing about how we are different and how they are different because we have so much in common but there is also changes because you can't you can't travel through the belly of a boat be sputtered by sputtered by history and come out the same you know I forget the name of the author who said that that the Caribbean was a crucible of pain you know so yeah we're going to be different from our African brothers and sisters and we need to recognize and accept that but we also need to get to know them again as well as well as they need to get to know us as that's my positioning on that for sure you know I'm gonna I'm gonna engage this a bit and then we're gonna start to close out with our dreamscape um but I'm so happy that Mario thank you Mario for bringing us here with the Africa question because it's Afrofuturist and so I'm just gonna bullet point and say some things and then sum up what I'm saying so like we got Garvey right major Afrofuturist Black Star Lina right the Black Star Lina Afrofuturism connecting to the um the cosmos right that same Black Star ends up in the middle of Ghana's flag it's the same Black Star right because Enkruma invited Garvey and Du Bois back home Du Bois took the invitation Garvey didn't but what Enkruma did is he put that Black Star in the middle of that flag right so we I'm gonna just deal with this this triangle right and then we're coming back now with a thing called reggae music right and the we Bob Marley is elevated because Bob Marley was smart Bob Marley was a country man and he listened to those stories and he brought those stories forward but there was to the great Tutton Tutibird who just passed away you know um Jimmy Cliff so many of our writers um we talked about Sister Nancy they're just a lot of writers in the reggae space and if you really listen to the stories that they're telling about um even even Sister Nancy that her her most famous song Bamba about me as a woman as a power and this is who I am and let me tell you what where I stand all of these are elements right of um how Afrofuturism has been in the Jamaican space and also how it shows up in theater because when we think of theater we think of the fourth wall the space with the fourth wall that you don't break but for African people theater is every conversation is where the theater is where I have an audience so the theater is wherever you are paying attention to me for African people there's no separation right and so um the one thing I learned another is that I want to elevate is is Kwame Kwama Kwame Kwama has a play called a statement of regret that talks about that looks at um the Africa I call it the Africa question for us of the classic that classical diaspora and we're the classical diaspora because we were the first thing to leave on mass right we the the the children of um of those ancestors and in it he addresses that subject of um how African people see us and the the disconnect and the trauma for our African our continental African brothers and sisters and the Africans of the um the classical diaspora and we heard it when when Black Panther came out all my Nigerian friends was like y'all Americans are funny y'all got jokes that's not over here we don't know and we said well you know it's it's a comic and we're having a great time so you you definitely Mario you bring up a good point you know okay all this Afrofuturism all this storytelling but when do we make the connections but the connections require some naming and some renaming of things and claiming and reclaiming of culture and identity um I remember when when I was in West Africa a guy saying to me you Americans and I said I'm not American I'm Jamaican don't you call me no American he said well well what continent is Jamaica in and honey on that day and forever more I am African American forever because I'm in the continent you know I was born in in in the continent of North America so there's so many levels of this thing there are levels to this thing and we as I said earlier 10 weeks 10 week 10 of 10 weeks is an opening not a closing week 10 is a is an it is the is the this is where we bust the the gate wide open for the conversations to begin I know we're gonna start talk so as we as we move ahead um every week we do a thing called a dreamscape and this week's dreamscape dreamscape is our visioning into the future um uh are dreaming into the future and so for this week I'm going to be a little creative and be a little theater artist here and I'm opposed the dreamscape to y'all like this and we all can dreamscape into the space keep it short because we're at the end um a Jamaican or anybody is watching these these recordings the recordings of these uh conversations 30 years from now so we're not going to go too far just 30 years 30 years into the future what is the society the Jamaican society and even the global society that they are watching these conversations from so where are they societally what have we created and what are they looking for when they watch us in this conversation I'm going to start with Michael yeah so Jamaica is uh somebody had said to me a long time ago Jamaica is a glandular spot on the globe and there's a there's something from the National Geographic which um apparently said that not since the island of Crete has an island state had such a powerful impact on the world and so Jamaica has had that powerful impact on the world to Bob Marley to Marcus Gavi to um so many people you're saying both and on and on and on that person 30 years from now is looking at um also looking at this and saying wow these people are talking about um and projecting into a future that we're living in now and these people are have created and helped to foster the creation of mix of of stories that helps to empower my parents who brought me to this space of strong empowerment where I am on top of the world where um you know like how Dubai is this powerfully rich country where um thing there everybody goes to because the greatest currency at that time is going to be culture the greatest currency at that time will be creativity the greatest currency at that time will be intellectual activity that has been creative um and put in a in a creative sphere and because the greatest currency will be that empowered space that electrical empowered space that is born from the gap that person watching from 30 years in the future he said oh my god thank you so much for explaining how we got here birds some power Tanya what is your dreamscape so um I have to reshift it because I'm a kind of person who sees darkly and so I was glad you made Michael go first so I could you know change the change the vision a little bit and I'm going to hold up my glass I don't know if you could uh not be the light is you can't you can't see yeah no not the blue banyan part it's the writing in gold beneath it yet no it's not it's not showing up so my cousin gave this to me because it is something for Christmas because it's something that I say all the time and I shame my spug my sister's company alimac designs does those glasses puts you know whatever you want on it um it says the the words it says is reading is fundamental and so the future I imagine is one where we have finally got rid of the lie that says Jamaicans don't read black people don't read what I see regardless of regardless of what else happens I think there's always hope because in story is humanity is possibility is hope and so much of that storying so much of that myth making is is is can be kept within within books and so for me the future I want to see um 30 years from now is where when you say that that lie is shot down immediately that simply put that is what I want to see a future where we once again fully embrace stories whether they are through books whether they are through film whether however they are because the griot the storyteller the person who brings your history to your now they are fundamental to who you are and who you can become and so that's that's a simple future I imagine yeah that is you all hit what wow wow whoo sweep over my soul I gotta pause and listen to that culture will be the currency and black people we read and rewrite and we have the right to to rewrite I stole if I could put there's a quote by um it's not often heard it's by Jamaica Kincaid and she was talking about um a book she did a few years ago where she got some frack because the characters in it were white Jewish um people and and she was she was like people thought she shouldn't write about such people um and she said one of the things that's happening in the contemporary world is um people are realizing that not only do black people read but they also write and you know just like that that is a part of what feeds into this kind of thing and yeah we need to connect more with with our writers we have a ton of them who've done fascinating work that we need to connect with and reconnect with and put out there and like what you guys are doing these conversations as well as interpreting them into plays that that must that must happen more and more you know yeah well I am gonna thank you both for being here with us and for being the um amazing Renaissance artist that you are that's what I've called you that's what you're gonna be from now on forever more for me um this conversation I yeah this is a major rewatch I will be rewatching and writing down and for those of you who want to know the names of the books just go to bluebanion publish in okay bluebanion.com or just rewatch the whole interview because I'm going to tell you all thank you before we close out and just thank you all thank you um Tanya and Michael for being here and um as we close out Magalie and I um as we said this is an opening so Magalie and I now will do our dreamscape it's as the 10 weeks um I'm going to start first because I'm gonna forget 30 years from now and this is personal 30 years from now my dreamscape is I am a grandmother or I'm on the way to being a grandmother and I am telling my grandchildren about how my grandmother and my uncle gave me my name and inside of that story will be the stories that will empower and form their future because that's what that story did for me I'm telling a story to my grandkids and you know those grandkids live wherever they want in the world and they look whatever way they want to look like in the world and they listen to what they want to listen to in the world so what's your dreamscape bags my dreamscape is that 30 years from now the sharing of stories like I was thinking all this and then Tanya started to talk and I was like yes yes um all the stories that were that we sought out you know late in our lives and we're and we're still seeking and we're teaching and kids are a craving to know about it and every time we tell them it's like a it won't they won't it won't they won't be a surprise anymore because it'll be part of everyday life you know you learn about um Abraham Lincoln and you learn about Christopher Columbus but we don't learn about you know the book months you know we don't learn about to something over zero we don't learn about these these people who are part of our DNA they are part of our DNA it's really and figuratively I mean seriously right and we don't learn about them and then when we do it's like oh my and so I want to get rid of that I'm hoping that that oh my is doesn't look like it disappears so that it's not interesting it it's just that every time these stories come up it's just like well yes but of course well yeah you know what I mean and so as the sharing continues it just becomes part of what we do we wake up every morning wash our face you know brush our teeth and we tell a story we share a story and because it's part of what we need to do to keep the stories alive that's my dream skin well well well well well my my my my my my for the past 10 weeks we have been saying that Jamaican people have a saying they say walk good it means blessings on you in all your journeys we actors we theater people we have a saying we say see you on the boards it means see you at the next job we hope you get the next gig so here's the deal walk good on the boards you hear