 Thanks for staying with us now. Gender equity according to the European Institute of Gender Equality is the provision of fairness and justice in the distribution of benefits and responsibilities between women and men. The concept recognizes that women and men have different needs and power and that these differences should be identified and addressed in the manner that rectifies the imbalances between the sexes. Now this may include equal treatment or treatment that is different but considered equivalent in terms of rights, benefits, obligations and opportunities. Now though often used interchangeably, equality and equity are two very distinct concepts. The term gender equity has sometimes been used in a way that perpetuates stereotypes about women's role in society, suggesting that women should be treated fairly in accordance with the roles that they carry out. Now these understanding risks perpetuating on equal gender relations and so the defined gender stereotypes that are detrimental to women. Therefore the term should be used with caution to ensure it is not masking a reluctance to speak more openly about discrimination and inequality. So what are your thoughts on gender equity and how can we begin to create an enabling environment for Nigerian women in leadership and business now? Please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to the very one 8034663. You can also tweet at us at Weisho Afqa One with the hashtag Weisho. So I'll bring in Mariah in a second or two. I just want to hear your quick thoughts on how you think we can begin to really, really embrace equity amongst gender. Okay so first I would like to say I love the fact that you already mentioned that there's a very big difference between equality and equity. And I'm going to use a quick illustration as an example. So you're trying to get someone to get mangoes from top of a tree. You give everybody ladders and you give them the same type of ladders. Now that's equality. Now equity is okay. You're saying well it's way taller than Chinelo is. So we'll definitely not need. Her ladder doesn't have to be as tall as Chinelo's ladder. Now that's equity. So it's just providing for each person resources according to their unique capabilities. So that's why we've always had that problem of stereotypes and people saying oh you pull a shouting equality, equality, equality. I mean I'm glad that now we've realized that it's not equality, it's actually equity. And yeah for that sake I'm embracing equity. Okay keep on embracing, how about you Glory? I think we have to get to that point where everyone has to accept the fact that women are actually also innovative and we are also resilient and we can actually contribute a lot to society's growth. I'll give an example. My organization, organization I work with is partly owned by a woman. It's been a bittersweet experience per se. So some of the contracts we've gotten comes from a side of curiosity. So people are curious, they want to know an organization can she deliver. So most times when we are invited for a pitch it's not because oh we've seen an amazing organization, they're just okay a woman owned organization. So let's see what they have to say or maybe just a pretty face you know. So when we actually go there and we show what we got and we actually deliver, they now take it back and say okay so we can now do business. So I feel like we have to get to that point where we are very, we become very accepting to the fact that women are actually intelligent enough to handle specific roles and also the fact that they should receive what they duly deserve irrespective of if, irrespective of, so there are people like the what's in the news I just took where you perform the same tasks, you do everything the same but still you're paid lesser than your male count simply because you're even delivering better. You're even delivering better. Or is it that the women's workup is different from the male workup? So we just have to be generally accepting. Absolutely. Norma let me hear your thoughts quickly. Norma are you there? Did we lose Norma? Norma I think you're muted. Alright so while you're gathering your thoughts let me bring in Maria C.K. Benjamin. She's an accomplished realtor, a reality star, former air hostess and model known for her passion for helping others and her ability rather to connect with people from all walks of life. Maria is a graduate of media and performance from the University of Southford where she graduated with a second-class opera division. She is also a dedicated philanthropist and a community leader known for her volunteer work and commitment to giving back to the community. Might I add she's a very pretty woman with a very, very intelligent brain. Hi Maria thank you so much for joining us. You look amazing by the way. Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure. Yeah I mean so I mean this conversation first of all today is International Women's Day and it was important that we first of all featured someone that we know that over the years you have grown you know in terms of watching and seeing how far you're transitioning from one role to another and you know at every stage it seems that everything that you've been doing you know there's just been some level of success that's been recorded along the line so it's always good to have women like that you know to speak with. So I mean as if they say equity the concept of equity what would that mean to you as Maria you know given that I think it was Pachinello mentioning pretty face you are a very pretty face you know but what would equity mean to you if we're talking about embracing equity especially in the place where Nigeria let's put Nigeria's case study highly patriarchal a lot of things you know it seems like you know you have to knock hundred times you know for a door that a man might just knock just once and all of that so what would equity mean to you. So it's Pachinello right yeah yeah she literally more or less took the words out my mouth when she was when you did ask the question first so yes equity and equality total different things again it's the fact that yes women are 100% capable of achieving even more than men can do I solely believe that because we can do everything men can do but men can't actually do everything we can do but not just that the fact that she mentioned equity equity to me it's the fact that you might just slightly need a little bit of help like she gave the illustration with the lathers or you know climbing up doesn't mean I'm not capable of doing that job I just need a little bit more support because of maybe my physique as a woman or you know men are masculine and we're feminine so in a way they look at us like oh you can't actually do this job like you're tiny you're petite you're a woman you're probably not that intelligent or you got here through a means of XYZ so a lot of that it would be nice to eradicate not just in Nigeria I think it's everywhere in the world I do remember you know working in the UK and had the same salary as did not have the same salary as a man that were in the same position and I was actually delivering more because I wanted more like I wanted to grow with the company I needed promotion and stuff like that so I was like more or less busting mine you know and it just I wasn't just getting anywhere because I'm a woman at the end of the day so we do need to like for me if you ask me how can we get rid of stuff like that it'd be from home it's cultural it's family oriented it would be your upbringing first of all you see in certain homes where the elder daughter yeah would be serving the younger brother just because oh here's the head of the house like that's the first son of the house and oh you're the first daughter or the push the men to go to school more than the females or stuff like that so all of that we need to put a stop to it and like so let me come to your career because you transitioned I mean I was glancing through your resume you know air hostess realtor so many businesses have done so if you say that you want to like look deeply into your careers over the years is transitioning that has happened do you think you have women that you can point to to say these are the women you know that helped me through those ranks or is this something that you truly you know struggled on your own just to be you know to grow through all of those you know our transition through all those jobs that you had done as a businesswoman it'd be a bit of both even being honest and it'd be a bit of my family as well you know growing up my dad would always say you know people don't you have people don't really listen to you if you're not something of your own so instead of him having to feed me all the time he'd rather I do what I needed to do by myself but observe and watch behind and advise or so in the sense of inspirational women that I would look up to or I'd want to be like there are a few obviously a lot of black women are prefer instance I saw on TV you guys had when I was backstage watching and because he walla perfect amazing example of someone that you know a lot of people should look up to and the struggles in life if we're being real and honest is both genders most times but it's a little bit more harder on women than it is on men so yes I did experience a lot of for instance when I worked as an air hostess for Emirates you know there are certain roles we weren't able to do it was more or less you know you're being pampered as a lady whereas the men are more they seem confident or they seem stronger but I wanted certain roles that I couldn't get just because and then oh in other parts of the world as well it's totally different for instance the Arab country they they barely regard women as you know anything I mean it's slightly changing but when I first moved to United Arab Emirates it was like women are more seen as oh homely just get covered up you can't really say much and it affected my job as well like the role in my job because most of my seniors when I first started or the what you call it the hierarchy like the left chain of command there were all Arabs and mostly English as well so the Arabs you can't really say much or you can't demand certain things because they'd be like you're a woman you can't even ask for that so it was hard and so it's just a bit of both that you keep growing with and learning that you're a strong and you just have to you are a strong woman and you just have to keep true let me come to you first of all do you think it's actually a thing and how have you experienced and how has that affected you as a woman I'd be lying if I sat here and say it's not a thing it is a thing it's never affected me it's been a stereotype if I'm being honest but that I haven't actually gotten anywhere if I'm being completely honest just because oh you look at I look a certain way or maybe to other people are you so beautiful so we'll give you this not in the parts of the world that I grew up in there are so many beautiful women mostly I feel like that happens a lot in Africa Nigeria to be precise other countries if you'll be more it's everywhere in the world but mostly it's a thing in Nigeria you know but other parts of the world sometimes it's a bit of folks like you have to be beautiful and you know your stuff as well so when you're speaking or when you're interacting with certain you know level of caliber of people you you actually do know what you're talking about or you are fit for the job but but mostly just in Nigeria it's like okay we'll get you here you're beautiful that's it we just need to be beautiful so there is a thing as pretty privileges I don't want to believe it's gotten me anywhere because I don't think I've used that card I should be somewhere better than where I am now but I'm not there yet so and I avoid stuff like that as well because I want to work for what I've done I don't want the glory of no glory if you know what I mean so I want my glory to be I did this and they can recognize that I did this so yeah and I'm glorified for that so I'm really I really want to know more about your venture into real estate because from what I gathered it's a male dominated field so how has that been and how were you able to transition into real estate I was in real estate for a very short period of time it was in Dubai a lot of men are into it you barely have women who are real tours so it was a time when obviously COVID happened and I got made redundant with Emirates so the next step was to look for another job and you know immediately I really got with a good a great company it was actually an English company but the struggle was real in the sense that there was no respect for time people would call you whenever weekends weekdays midnight so you know go over setting contracts or even ask you to send them pictures of videos of houses but the male the male realtors were more the okay so a lot of Arabs would own buildings in in Dubai and they're the landlords and stuff like that so they wouldn't they would look at me like you're a woman what are you doing in this field sadly I wouldn't be listened to as much as the male would so what I then did was be very friendly overly friendly with my male colleagues so they can introduce me to their landlords and you know I can get a share of certain properties and then because you know everything it's more like okay this is my region that's your region so it was hard at the beginning I was probably not making any money because it's you know on commission basic basics and stuff like that till I got the hinge of it and the gist of it and I got I got a lot of landlords on my side and naturally I'm a chatty person and I'm a very bubbly person I believe really yeah and so you're trying to be calm because you know I did my little thing and I got a lot of love not gonna lie so if that's where the privilege comes from maybe they did mistake me half of the times to be Arab because of the way I dress back then so yeah I kind of succeeded in getting more properties under my name and then I was selling and obviously renting as well so then I started making money and before I decided to move back to Nigeria wow yeah now are you there now yes we can muffle but we're trying to hear you oh you know what now my whole that thought let's quickly go on a break right when we come back from the break we'll continue the conversation stay with us all right back all right thanks for staying with us now if you just tuned in we're discussing gender equity for Nigerian women in leadership in business and we still have with us Chike and Maya Chike Benjamin now please remember you can join the conversation send us an SMS or whatsapp to the rate 1 803-4663 you can also tweet at us at Weissho after one of the hashtag Weissho alright Namayo are you there now yes awesome we can hear you clearly now go ahead all right so Maria I really love the fact that you also have a real estate background which was my first love looked before so many other things so but I wanted to just piggyback off what you had said earlier you know about women understanding their strength and all and I wanted you to touch a little bit about women also trying to prove themselves so you found yourself in an environment that was male dominated and you have a lot of women who are constantly you know trying to prove themselves and trying to give themselves a sense of purpose and in the process they're crushing themselves with so many responsibilities your mom your your a career woman your business woman your you know so many responsibilities that they have to hold as women right how do women begin to balance their quest to find purpose in life as well as overcome the imposter syndrome that they struggle with I think that's why today's very important being International Women's Day because that awareness has to more or less go out further and be you know educated to younger generations that just feel like a woman's just supposed to be married and be in her husband's house and have children you know again I can't stress enough it does have to start from the families and home and just believing yourself if a man can literally do anything and just to remove men out of it so it's not like we're rubbing shoulders or you know just you as a being just being a lady a woman just knowing that you can actually do all things have that in mind and you can always try and fail the more you fail the more the more you can you know know your strengths and your weaknesses and succeed further further on in life so I think it's just personal self accountability like knowing okay I'm not so good at this so I have to learn further or I have to push myself a little bit harder or I am good at this so this is my field I'll teach other women and again today it's more about women supporting women not just breaking our weaknesses and shaming each other with our weaknesses but learning from our weaknesses as well and making it our strength and looking at other people's strength as well like other women's strength and like learning from them so it's not a competition because there's always a timeline for everyone to win in life that's what I believe so your friends might be winning today and you know tomorrow might just be your turn so it's just loving and supporting each other with strengths and weaknesses all around you know it's interesting you're talking about that weight in your turn and all of that and I keep wondering why are women so hostile towards other women I am blessed to be managing a team of I don't even know how many women are you know and for some strange reason it has never crossed my mind to feel like you know somebody's trying to outshine somebody but I see that a lot with women because again it's important that we are women and we must be honest with ourselves right we are fighting for equity we're fighting for women and all of that the problem that we have it is not from men the biggest problem or the biggest challenge I see us having is women ourselves right I see this person you know I believe in tapping into people's strength and just forget about their weaknesses likewise you know let's focus on what they are good at and just continue to you know push them with what it is that they are good at but you see I see I see a lot of women struggle with that why is that so you know so and how can we start to better you know better encourage and better embrace ourselves as women because first of all we can keep the men aside they are really not our problem if we want to really be honest with ourselves women we are biggest problem so how do we start to do that what do you think we can do your opinions great I disagree okay I like that you disagree please tell me yeah I disagree just because I don't want to 100% base our what did you call it our envy within each other I don't want to blame it on solely just men but men do have their little you know say in why women fight each other or not that you know that's something I don't think I don't think of ever it's never been in me to be envious of any other woman you know you have your qualities you have your strengths and you have your own beauty you know one minute you look at a beautiful woman you walk past another room you look somewhat you look you find someone way more beautiful than her and you know the beauty just carries on that's what I believe in so everyone's unique in their own little ways but men on the other hand again I'm going to stress family orientation it starts with oh but your elder sister's doing this and she's better at this you know it kind of just discourages you parents are already you know leveling you up with your elder sister or your little sister who you know there's comparison there and instead of it encouraging you or making you fight better you know your zeal is dead immediately that's how I function when people bring me down but then immediately you have to think no I am actually Maria Chiqui and I can do this and you know you go ahead and fight for yourself but it starts with family and then the other hand is men because men are a huge problem don't joke in front of me no they're not no men are amazing I love men no I mean in the fact that you know there's competition with marriages with dating with siblings even you know some brothers have their favorite female sibling or because of our ages I don't know how you want to point this thing when women go for instance you know okay let's even take beauty because I can bet you for free that your beauty will be a problem to many people around you right because you are distinctively beautiful so it's not some you're not someone that will walk into a room unnoticed right so it is not the men it is the fellow woman that says what is Maria doing differently which cream is she rubbing because I think sometimes it's cream you know I mean I'm just saying to you that if we really want to bridge certain gaps that we see as lapses right in amongst women amongst ourselves we must first of all learn to embrace ourselves and accept ourselves the way we are because when we start to benchmark our whether we're more beautiful benchmark it with this person we are the course of our problems it's not really the men so that's why I stated yeah initially you have to just you know like I was saying you could walk into a room you see someone more beautiful than you are or XYZ it carries on you can never find a woman who's the most beautiful ever so everyone has their uniqueness in them but the reason as to why certain women are envious of others is because for instance I could be sat with you and with a husband or a partner and you walk in and it's like he's looking at you like wow who's this lady she's absolutely stunning that would affect me you know like why are you looking at her you know but instead of me just appreciating your beauty to say wow you're actually so stunning I want to be friends with you and more concerned with the fact that whoever I'm with or even a girlfriend let's leave men aside it could actually be girlfriend and girlfriend you know we're high school friends and she wants to be friends with you because you're so much more beautiful than her best friend who's just sat next to her but it could be we just like something about you but instead of me to embrace that and want to be friends with you and learn about you or... It's interesting I let you know but I will still put it to you that it is us because if somebody does that to me like you rightly said I'll walk up to you and tell you actually so we need to learn first of all to appreciate each other you know why I'm going with this conversation because again sometimes we're talking about how we can build more women in business and leadership the only way we can do that is to help people set aside some of these things that stand as barriers and find a way to continue to build so for instance there's a business opportunity and I know that I cannot deliver at 100% but I know Maria can do 110% why what's stopping me from putting her name or mentioning her name for you know so that's the thing if we really must build right if we must grow women if we must begin to bridge some of these gaps that we have and you know we need to then start to see it and say you know what for every opportunity that I get so my sister is in a position of leadership for instance in our organization and she makes it as a point of duty that for every time she's given a task to hire she's hiring five people three of those five people must be women and she will go and fish out the competent ones so if we are very deliberate about all of these things we'll begin to build more women those of leadership and we'll continue to grow more women businesses right so if we start to first of all put aside some of the things that really disturbs us because I don't understand I mean there's beauty yes it's one of the biggest problems that we love women have because they just feel like you know what I think I can be more I need to look like this person more and all of that and I think that's a distraction for a lot of women because now we're not seeing the real greatness people have so for instance TV you know somebody has a two one she has a this is about everybody that keeps on talking about you is just oh she's beautiful and it ends there I mean doesn't that even get to you as a woman? Oh it bothers me yeah no seriously yeah go ahead so I mean so how do we begin to correct that so how can we be very deliberate about it so that we're not saying that it's only you know we need to start to be very intentional about growing those kinds of portfolios for women that's what I'm going to say then when you state what you've stated then it's not really gender based is it because you will find males who are likewise doing the same thing in big companies like you could find a man who's in the role of leadership and would just out of jealousy or like just the certain personality that person has or upbringing not want to put his fellow man who he knows is capable for that men do I believe they do you know that I know them I believe so I think it's just personality I wouldn't base that on gender if you ask me I think is individual is an individual thing and again upbringing does matter a lot I don't know why I keep talking about family orientation but I feel like if there's so much love given to children not just your needs or your wants but like real love as to how you should share how you're raised how you should share your space how you should share who you are as a person and how you should actually love other people it starts from you know your tender age and once you reach or miss that gap you just become like the rest of the people in the world how do you think it should be for me I'm just going to talk about gender equity in business now for example so it is widely believed that there's a strong correlation between gender equity and organizational success right but then in most cases by the time you start to get to certain levels like the managerial levels now you start to see that there's a whole middle that women are suffering because you get to see fewer women at both the managerial levels usually men that you see sitting on the boards men like eds it's rare I'm not saying that no women but then it's quite rare to see women on boards and then in most cases when you even see women there you find out that that woman has more female enemies in the organization than than her male counterparts and this is I mean I have seen this happen in several places when a woman rises they are barely maybe now because of this or that I would say my generation now because we're now beginning to realize that okay we're supposed to do this woman supporting women things we're supposed to hold each other's hands and try to you know move up and all of that but then looking back there's that hollow middle that is very very conspicuous and I think that's why we need to actually embrace this the theme for this year's IWD because we need to now understand that we see another woman climbing up a ladder it's very important for you to hold on because it's easier for her to pull you than for a man to pull you I don't know if you understand what I mean so yeah I think that women need to do a better job at supporting each other let me bring these politics now as well right it's also playing a very very huge role because you see a woman going for certain roles and then you see it's quite difficult women actually and they vote for the men let's not discuss politics for the sake of somebody but normal let me come to you well is it to ask a question just to make a comment I think we're actually wrapping up we ran out of time I think we've raised really silent points concerning women and how important it is for us to see ourselves first as individuals who have strength and who have great potential and who have what it takes to be able to change whatever environment that define themselves whether it's in the professional or in the community at large and how important sympathy and being able to work together can be when we are able to leverage on each other's strengths it makes it possible for more accomplishments of whatever it is that we put our minds to and I really like the fact that Maria has pointed out certain areas the fact that the area of family and how important it is orientation because really the people that we become in our communities and in our societies even the women that we see today as a result of family orientation where you have come to believe that you're nothing or you don't have a voice or you don't have anything significant to contribute and it's time for us to begin to fight those ideologies that have been passed on from one generation to the other another very key thing that I really like that we were able to point out is the fact is the area of mentorship for a very long time I didn't have women that I could actually look up to and say that I would love to be like this person or I would love to be like that but across board you can see men in business you can see men in IT in whatever fields and organizations that you see that people that you can actually look up to so if women can begin to rise up to those responsibilities of not just supporting other women but being the ideal for what women should be then I think that we would be able to overcome whatever challenges that we find in the workspace. Wow okay we need to run quickly. Good evening my dear beautiful sisters of what are you saying? Thank you both those in the studio and other leaders gender equity for Nigerian women leadership in business we thank God for gender equity concerning Nigerian women leadership in business they really stand out if we have women contesting for offices in government trust me they will deliver also I don't know they will have I don't think they will have time to do women doing government that is really a way through during elections I am a man but women I disgrace and embarrass them I didn't say that women I know can deliver on some things around if possible change Nigeria your guest is exceptionally beautiful my name is Daniel so what I was asking about this we ran out of time but thank you so much Maria we hope to bring you back again it's such a pleasure being here we have to talk about something else but it's not today okay that's fine thank you Gloria thank you Chinela thank you Noma before we go quickly ensure you follow us across all our social media handles that wish your African interact with us further drop a comment and more importantly follow all our engagements on social media like sharing invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation if you missed our quote for today here it is again both men and women should feel free to be sensitive both men and women should feel free to be strong it is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum not as to opposing sex of ideas Emma Watson said that we'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. so ladies night out right yeah so bring another great conversation to your screen we might just have a politician amongst us we'll see you guys tomorrow