 Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the 2021 ANU Order of Australia lecture. Now I'd like to start by acknowledging and celebrating the first Australians on whose traditional lands and airways we're meeting this evening pay my respect to elders past and present. I'm joining you today from the lands of the Nunnawal Nambri people the traditional custodians for this part of Australia for nearly 25 millennia. We're also joined this evening by retired General Michael Crane, Director of Order Australia Association. It's nice to have you again with us, Mike, albeit virtually and I am looking forward to resuming this annual lecture on campus again in a new normal 2022. ANU has had a long standing affiliation with the Association, and it's one that I hope to continue in the years to come. The Order of Australia lecture was established in 2010 as another way to acknowledge members of our community who have been recognized for the distinguished service to the nation. And we've had some incredible speakers over the years including public policy expert Professor Andrew Ponder, historian Professor Adam McGraw, an equity advocate, the late Honourable Susan Ryan. Even I delivered this lecture back in 2013 and actually unwittingly I declared my vision for the future of ANU and began baby steps, not realized at the time of becoming the Vice Chancellor I have to admit I was not on my mind when I gave the lecture in 2013. Tonight, I'm very proud to say that we will hear from Professor Peter Yu, who will speak about his vision for the First Nations portfolio and reflections on his past experiences in navigating his career, such a young age, noting the difficulties trying to navigate ongoing tensions of living in a colonized environment, growing up, of course in Western Australia. I do thank you very much for making time to share your journey with us tonight, Peter. Peter is a Yaru man from the Kimberly region and Vice President of the ANU First Nations portfolio, the first person we've had in that portfolio. As Australia's National University, we see it as our responsibility to advance the lives of Indigenous Australians and ensure all Australians have equal opportunity. ANU was founded in 1946, 75 years ago in a spirit of post-World War II optimism, and part of our founding mission is to support the development of a national unity and identity to help us understand ourselves and our neighbors and provide our nation with a research capacity amongst the best in the world. As we celebrate that 75th birthday, our unique national mission shines through, especially in Peter's work, which plays a critical role helping build a more inclusive nation, providing leadership on national policy discourse and decisions that impact the First Nations people of Australia. Our affiliation ultimately is about mutual respect and listening, and we need to ensure our First Nations voices are heard and embed their knowledge principles and ways of learning into the teaching that we do, so we gain an understanding of each other. We also want to provide a space for articulating a vision for the future with our community, the first Australians and non-Indigenous Australians alike. The University is very fortunate to have Peter's guidance to ensure ANU is a world leading in teaching and researching areas of interest around First Nations people. And of course it is about understanding that the path to reconciliation is not just a responsibility of First Nations people, indeed it actually lies with non-First Nations people. It underpins all aspects of Australian society, we all have a part to play, and I encourage everyone to stand up and it is really quite fulfilling, I can say, from a personal journey in this space and I encourage everyone else to join it. There's so much to learn. Peter's work goes well beyond ANU, it's 40 years experience in Indigenous development and advocacy at the state, the national and international level. And in June this year Peter was made a member of the Order of Australia in recognition for a significant service to Indigenous culture and political organization. His work has been instrumental in developing many community-based organizations and initiatives which have had an enduring influence on the Kimberley region. It is indeed an honor to have Peter deliver tonight's lecture and I am looking forward to hearing his reflections and vision and a very fitting title speech, looking forward, looking back. So Peter, without further ado, I welcome you to the virtual stage to speak and thank you for coming along tonight. Thank you, Brian, for your generous and warm welcome. But first of all, I'd like to also acknowledge the none of our number of people and to pay my respects to their elders past and present. And all those emerging leaders in our community be they Aboriginal or non-Aboriginal who have the responsibility to guide us into the future. I do acknowledge our Chancellor, the Honourable Julie Bishop. I also acknowledge you, Brian, as Vice-Chancellor. Can I also acknowledge Barry Martin, who is the National Chair of the Order of Australia Association, and Michael Crane, the Chair of the ACT Order of Australia Association. I also acknowledge fellow ANU award recipients and all other members of the Australia Order of Australia Association. I must be honest and say that I had mixed feelings about accepting Brian's invitation to deliver this lecture, this presentation, as I did when I was first notified by the awards office about the offer of the award. Many mixed thoughts instantly flooded my brain as to what I would say. To be honest with you, I did have some misgivings as to the appropriateness of accepting the award. The way it is to cast aspersions on Australia's honours, it's a well respected and regarded means to recognise people's efforts and achievements in their careers and fields of endeavours. Although, as we all know, the Australian Order system has not been without controversy in recent years. The course of question of my own position in weighing up the merits of accepting the award comes from a very personal life and work experience. And it's probably one of the few times that I have actually talked about my own stuff because I'm not somebody who likes to do that. I want to talk about what the issues are and discuss how we might look at more creative ways of addressing the ongoing matters that we still remain unresolved in this country. But as an Indigenous man navigating the challenges here in this country, in this very slow and incremental process of unraveling the legacies of colonisation and dealing with the contradictions that this process continually throws up on a daily basis to First Nations communities in this country. A comment by a colleague of mine that this award is awarded from the colonisers and invaders, resonated with me somewhat. I am by nature a hopeful person and I try to push away the corrosive feeling of cynicism that can easily lead to one, into parlousness and passivity. I continue to advocate and work to heal the wounds of colonisation and to make Australia an inclusive nation. I chose the title of my delivery from a Slim Dusty song, Looking Forward, Looking Back. Slim Dusty in my view made a significant contribution to reconciliation in this country before it was a popular thing. Through his songwriting and performances that brought Black and White Australia together through their common connections and love of the country, long before we started talking about reconciliation. The Bush life and characters he vote are aptly brought to life in Slim songs for those of us living and coming from the Bush. We always felt that he had written those songs just for us, with all of us in mind. He was and still is an iconic figure and enormously popular in First Nation Australia. There is something in his lyrics that connect all Australians and I think it particularly resonates with those of us who come and who live in the Bush. But I also think if others living all around the country took time to listen to it, would appreciate the nature of the very intimate sentiments that Slim is able to portray. There's absolutely nothing like driving out in the middle of the bush. The company with Slim on the cassette, I'm showing my age now I suppose, cassette or CD or radio singing when the rain tumbles down in July. Or one of his multitude of other major hits and songs with your car window rolled down and the sweet smell of spin effects after the first raves. In picking the title of the song for my delivery. Slim sings in his opening lines. Looking forward, looking back. I've come a long way down the track. Making sense of what I've seen. I've got a long way to go. The offer for the award came the day of the 30th anniversary of the handing down of the 1991 Royal Commission into Aboriginal deaths and custody report. That day was a point moment of reflection for all First Nations peoples. A reminder of how little progress has been made, despite the recognition of our common law rights and the growing awareness of the truth of our nation's history. The tragic reality is that far more first nation peoples are incarcerated in Australia today than was in 1991. Someone who worked as Commissioner Patrick Dodson's associate on the Royal Commission, it particularly resonates. Having visited every prison. And most of the police lockups throughout Western Australia. While simultaneously running formal hearings and listening to the personal and painful stories of the families whose loved ones were subject to the investigation. Talking to them and their affected families was a point moment of reflection for me personally. And well, knowing full well that the circumstances and subsequent recommendations of the commission. And fail to shift the bar to any significance to bring relief to the terrible injustice of our people. Something that continues unabated today. Before I proceed further, I want to tell you a little bit about myself to bring you into context as to why the consideration of the ward was such a thought-provoking consideration and dilemma. I suspect it is to as to too many other Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island people. I'm third generation Catholic mission descendant, a Yaru person. My grandmother was a member of the Stalin generation. A vulnerable woman taken from her traditional lands in the Fitzroy Valley of the West Kimberley around 1910 and raised at Beagle Bay Mission. Where she met my grandfather who was working there. My father was one of 13 children. And like most of her siblings were raised in the Mission dormantry and largely brought up by the Saint John of God nuns. My father was a Chinese pearl diver, having arrived on Australian shores as an endangered labour in the pearling industry after the Second World War. Under the apartheid laws of the state at that time, my mother and father were not allowed to marry. My siblings was illegal to go have it with the native. Attracting a fine possible imprisonment and then deportation. I grew up not knowing the intricacies of the oppressive oppressive regime that my parents and family experienced. I had a very happy childhood growing up fishing and roaming the beaches of Broome. Most of the time until it was my turn to be sent south to the Catholic Mission and school at the age of 11. I was getting the thought and excitement of hitting off to the big smoke. It was a traumatic and transformative time taking me away from my family and home environment. For those of you who have seen Jimmy Chai's musical play Brand New Day, which was later made into a feature film, was also my experience and the experience of many other children like me. Some would say my parents had agreed to the church's intervention at my young age. An experience shared by countless other Aboriginal kids. But in reality, they had little choice. While I was not startled in the literal sense that the 1997 Bring Them Home report chronicled, my experience should be seen in the context of that shameful period of Australian history. Along with other kids who were flown to Perth and placed at the Palatine Training Centre. A mission run by the Catholic German order for young Aboriginal boys and girls. To say I was intimidated, isolated and traumatised is another statement. It was such a far cry from growing up in a relatively free, independent and joyful lifestyle in Broome. Palatine was a regimented, physical and psychologically oppressive and sexually abusive environment. Something that no child should experience. I raised this to highlight the reality of Australia that I and many other First Nations children grew up in. And unfortunately many still continue to grow up in. An experience that has shaped my view of this nation and which has caused me to think about the value of the award when it was offered. To me growing up in this environment in the height of governments and colluding institutions, assimilationist push was like being put in a prison that was almost impossible to escape. And I know many people would have said and still say that yes, without that experience, you would not have had a good education and be where you are today. And that's what I've been told all of my life. But what I have learned as many like as like many of my peers was to survive. Many of us failed in our scholarly attempts. Being preoccupied how to deal with the racism and abuse from our teachers and fellow students alike. It was a daily struggle to not succumb to the mental and other pressures of feeling isolated and alone. As part of the ongoing assimilation social experience training. We allocated out to white families every Sunday of the month. To unfamiliar people, culture and values. We decided for all the good intentions, it was like a lottery. Some kids had good experiences. Some kids bad. I was one of the fortunate ones to have a positive experience with a very good family. And then to plan to know today for its positive reputation for developing education and sporting prowess with young Aboriginal boys around the country. Planta was established by the Christian Brothers as a boys' orphanage back in 1901. Awards of the state and from the late 1940s for child immigrants from Britain and Malta. We were exposed for its physical and sexual abuse of young boys. A matter that was subject to the Royal Commission into the institutional responses to child sexual abuse with compelling evidence from victims of the horrendous crimes committed against them. As children growing up in that environment, we knew and felt something was terribly wrong. We also always think of suspicion and innuendo with an ever-present sense of evilness permeating the environment. We all felt this even in our youthful naivety. The early relief was playing football on the Saturday morning on some suburban footy field. An opportunity to forget where we were to attack the ball in opposition with hard physical gusto. To relieve all of the week's tensions and prepare for the following week to do it again. My post-school life was one of great adventure and opportunities. Provided to me largely by senior and other cultural leaders in my own communities back in the Kimberleys. Through my experience of this period, I began to explore and understand the history and experience of Aboriginal Australia. And particularly its emotional and other impact on me, my family and our community. As a great Aboriginal leader, Dr. Loja O'Donoghue said of her own experience and I quote, I am sometimes identified as one of the success stories of the policies of removal of Aboriginal children. But for much of my childhood, I was deeply unhappy. I feel I've been deprived of love and the ability to love in return. Like Lily, my mother, I felt totally powerless. And I think this is where the seeds of my commitment to human rights and social justice were sown. There was absolutely no doubt about the strong sense of familiarity that I and all Indigenous people have to the sentiment through our shared history and experience. And that we continue to find ourselves challenged with daily. The current COVID risk facing First Nation communities is a confronting and continuing illustration of public policy and program failure on multiple fronts. What COVID has done is exposed the ongoing health, the housing and other vulnerabilities in our communities. We've always been in crisis in health, in housing, in education, employment, and dealing substantially in closing the gap to the standards most enjoyed by most Australians. Notwithstanding the necessity to work towards its attainment, I think we all know this will never happen while we continue to be shackled to the dominations of neocolonial practices under the bureaucratic regime repeatedly and systematically operating in a way that reinforces the past. So what should we do? Does COVID also provide an opportunity? What should we look to look to inspire to an approach COVID environment to aspire to? Many commentators in the general public talk about returning to normal. An aspiration in my view now pass just like before the industrial revolution changing our lives from anything but normal with the rapid change in new technology. There's also the realization that beyond COVID we will have to adapt to the new normal. Responding to the continuing threat of the evolution of the virus and emerging variants requiring us to embed in our daily lives all the necessary protective protocols we have had to learn and endure. At another level, this is a discussion point I would welcome when we contemplate an alternative approach on how a new normal would apply to affect the nation where we could design a new set of standards and protocols when considering our relationships with first people. Perhaps we could turn to addressing foundational relationship issues, like constitutional reform measures, addressing the recognition of Australia's first people. How to formulate structure and activate the Makarata Truth only commission and steps to formalize a treaty and settling compensation for past justices. Immediately though, and because of the devastating impact the spread of the COVID will have in our communities with potentially high mortality levels and long term health effects when the pandemic takes a foothold. It should cause us to consider what needs to be done now to manage and mitigate this risk. To do that we need government commitment and partnership to put together a stimulus economic initiative structured around addressing the current crisis. For a national housing and infrastructure investment strategy, committing to this over a sustained period of time to help stimulate the local and regional economies. Generating employment and training for local indigenous communities. Beginning a relationship allowing people, Aboriginal people to own the risks themselves. When I first was invited to join the ANU, I had to think about what this university was about. And what I could do to contribute to its nation building work. After decades of work in advocacy, negotiation and policy formation. I felt like to bring the experience to a university that in my view has a national responsibility to create in shine a light of important national policy issues focusing on building matters that challenge us as a community in a country. The thinking question when addressing the question of common good. I became acquainted. And considered nugget Coombs a friend who devoted much of his latter life to advance the rights of indigenous peoples. He taught me a lot and he taught me about this great university the ANU. To interrogate to explore to research to create a space environment for asking the hard question. And then to build a partnership and pathways to reform and change what's not working for the common good. The ANU strategic plan is identified by its purpose statement that is vision. And it states. To serve society through transform or research education. And our vision will be that the ANU will be among the great universities of the world. And driven by cultural excellence and everything we do. The ANU's 2025 strategic plan is underpinned by the ANU's values of academic freedom and integrity. fairness and justice. Respecting celebrating and learning from First Nations peoples. Safety and well being. Truth seeking transparency and accountability. Inclusion equity and diversity. And respectful collegiality. This is of course a further underpinned by key strategic priorities. In establishing the First Nations portfolio. I needed to consider how within the framework and objectives of the ANU 2025. We could design a complimentary First Nations portfolio plan. We're required to this but this hasn't yet been completed but we have commenced through our initial business case. The genesis of such a plan. This is predicated on addressing both ends of what I see are the important of the spectrum. First to consider at one end. Addressing policy reform measures around unresolved historical legacies and tensions between the First peoples. And the Australian Australian nation state. Like the issues I've mentioned like representation. About truth telling. This isn't an interesting that the news the other day that the. The Norwegians Scandinavian countries are setting up the truth telling commission dealing with their First Nations peoples to some. Compensation and agreement making. And secondly, in partnership with local communities, designing and scoping research and projects to deliver serious capacities for communities to own their own risks. And secondly to facilitate governance and management capability. Through data sovereignty and management capacity and dressing their own aspirations in a post native title. Termination and post land rights era. Activating their sizable asset base and gaining a foothold in the local and regional economies. In between both spectrums is the responsibilities of deconstructing the colonial aspects of education. Curriculum. Student well being an academic achievement and professional development and employment. While ambitious. It's only the beginning. We won't be able to achieve this without the internal ANU and external support and collaboration or partnership with government philanthropy. The private sector and importantly the communities we engage with. At the end of all of this. I decided to accept the word for a couple of reasons. What I wanted to pay respect and acknowledge the senior cultural leaders. Who had given me the opportunity to serve under them. And for them and all of the opportunities. That I have had. I was fortunate to have served my apprenticeship under their guidance. And trusted to advocate their aspirations and expectations. Without them I would not have had the opportunities that I have had. And the war is dedicated to their struggle. I wanted to pay acknowledgement to my family for their patience. For their support. And their perseverance. Because it is an unusual life with many practices sacrifices. Sorry. That you'd have to make up to live and work in the space. Secondly. In football parlance. You can't keep goals if you're not on the level and in the game. In closing. Can I further acknowledge. The chance of the vice-chance on my colleagues on the executive of the senior managing group. I'm excited to have joined the team. Everyone has embraced the notion of the first nation portfolio. And it made me and my team feel welcome. And I look forward to further developing our working relationships. Gallia and thank you very much. Thank you Peter. My name is Michael Crane and I'm the chair of the ACT branch of the order of Australia Association and I'll be chairing the question and answer. The session that Peter's generously agreed to participate in. Can I begin though by adding my own acknowledgement to the original custodians of the land on which we all meet right across Australia in. In this year's particular case Peter. We have members from all around Australia. Of the order of Australia Association. Well over a hundred have joined us for the session tonight so very excited to have you here with us. I guess perhaps I might reserve the chairs right to ask the first question. You're a member of numerous reference groups and committees around the country. The chair of the indigenous reference group to the northern ministerial forum deputy chair of nails more and so on half a dozen. It's difficult to understand how you actually find the time to be at the university with all of those commitments. Would you like to say a little bit about that work and how that all sort of progresses the your objectives. Thanks Michael. It's a very good question and time you want because unfortunately I've had to step down from a couple of those that you mentioned mainly because the demands. And like my obvious first responsibility to the university but notwithstanding that it doesn't mean that I won't have ongoing involvement and participation. I'm extremely passionate about northern Australia. And about the opportunities that are presented. In terms of the abilities I mentioned in my delivery the post native title determination and and land rights here and the detail of that is that Aboriginal people have a direct and indirect interest in the in the physical assets land assets of the nation to the extent of about 51% overall but in the north it's something like about 85 90%. So, when we talk about developing north Australia. It would seem unthinkable that you wouldn't contemplate the nature of the position of equity that Aboriginal people can bring and the value that that brings in terms of the activation of those assets. And for the local and regional economies. I think but but I but I also think we a challenge by the ongoing systemic nature of the way that the co dependency relationship if you like between governments and Aboriginal people and the way that unfortunately the way the Federation operates. It's a very convoluted and very confusing way in being able to design particular programs and delivery of those programs in a more efficient and productive manner that actually delivers the benefit. I think that that's a key challenge. There's I've also just joined the water trust board I'm sure they won't mind me saying that but I think that's a critically important initiative in terms of where water, of course important for the nation. That's a particular kind of importance for Aboriginal people and Aboriginal people have less than 1% interest in water. Right now at the moment from the point of view of licenses or trading or being involved in the industry and the economy so with a long way to go to make up. Thank you. We do have a couple of questions from participants, but I would just encourage those who are listening from around the country to to send questions in and the moderator will send them through to me and then I can pass them on to you, Peter. Let me begin with one that we've got from from Pam in Melbourne, who says that we've been well served by many of our governor generals but she wonders whether as part of your vision. You can see a day when we might move beyond military male government as general to having our own first indigenous woman as the governor general as was recently done in New Zealand. I think the day is coming. I think that you know today, obviously, I think, as I say, I'm a positive half glass full person. I think, you know, we've seen, so Doug Nichols was the first governor of West of South Australia, sorry, many, many years ago is an iconic Australian figure. I think we've also seen the the latest governor in in South Australia I think I apologize I've forgotten his name but obviously was a refugee from from Vietnam. That's that's quite a dramatic change. I think, I think we will do. But largely of course, without wanting to, you know, get involved in the, in the politics of it all. I think there is this perhaps that there is a time coming soon that should happen I think a lot of people that's not in any way casting any dispersions on the particular people who've occupied positions coming from military backgrounds I think they've all been wonderful representatives in that position so it's not a it's not a personal thing but it is more what is right for a maturing modern developing social democracy in terms of how is that diversity represented. And I think that that's what you know that the growing sense of need and purposes in relation to equity and diversity. And I think it's, we speak it very well but I don't think we actually measure really live up to that very much. Okay, thanks perhaps from that quite hopeful and positive sort of outlook to something that's a bit of a curlier question. One from from Richard who asks what specific policy and action can address the chronic lack of hope and opportunity for First Nation peoples and remote rural communities for example. And I hope I've got this right for why not for war in a in Western New South Wales, where there's a male life expectancy of just 43 years. Part of my delivery is also about earning risk. I talked about the codependency relationship between governments. Unless you're actually working in the space you don't appreciate the intensity of the bureaucracy in its domination of the way in which government business operates. I think that example would be, for instance, talking about war and, and, and the other towns out there just kind of finding their way through the whole COVID crisis. Most people wrote to the governments in, in, in early 2020 expressing their concern and seeking to want to work with the government in putting in place a plan to deal with the threat of the spread of the pandemic. That was not responded to unfortunately, the views of the Aboriginal community for people wanting to take up the responsibility to protect their own community. And hence what we had was an outbreak. And what we have is a higher infection rate in those vulnerable communities. So I think what is what is really required is very much structural reforms in terms of that relationship between governments. The system you've got to, I guess, appreciate is you're dealing with Commonwealth, you're dealing with state, and you're dealing with local government. I think it's not untrue to say we're all quite familiar with the level of red tape and bureaucracy that confronts us on a daily basis. But if you're an Aboriginal person coming from a zero, zero kind of a base in regards to having any decent income, having a house, having a job, the dependency relationship is so dramatically different. And that's why I think I also suggested that what we should look at take advantage of the post COVID recovery environment, there should be a very strategic development growth and investment strategy that actually looks at building housing and other infrastructure around the health and environmental matters that enable greater level of governance and management capacity where people can actually do the things themselves. I think that a lot of Aboriginal people have not been able to fail at things, if you like, even though we can constantly get the blame for failing everything. You know, I was saying this afternoon that a friend of mine, I've said it before, so I'm sure this might be on, we'll have heard him say this before, but a very good friend of mine, Gallera Unipig, you said to me, you know, 20 years ago, he said, when the government tells you there's a light at the end of the tunnel, you said, don't believe him. And I said, why is that? They said because it's a bureaucrat with a torch running backwards. That's the experience of many Aboriginal people, I don't mean they're disrespected to any people working in the bureaucracy, but unfortunately that's the reality. Okay, can I just follow up on that and ask whether you think in your experience over 20 years and more, has that improved at all? Has the experience improved at all from an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander perspective, or is it? I'm reflecting, for example, on the national institutions here in Campbell and sometimes it just seems that all that's happening is we have a change of name, maybe a slight change of focus and not much else changes. So there's some irony in my answer, to the extent that yes, there was a period there back in the 90s with the creation of ATSIC where there was a large push to employ Aboriginal people within the bureaucracy. And of course, ATSIC was an unusual kind of beast in that era, given that it had elected members at the regional level and at the national level, and it was able to engage with government on policy. Unfortunately, it couldn't be sustained through some unfortunate acts, but your point is right. From that point onwards, we've seen a decline of senior Aboriginal bureaucrats at the head of these various departments. I certainly attempt to reinvigorate that, but I think that governments have the danger and risk is that there's a risk of appropriating the nature of what it is that Aboriginal people see as being important to them and building it in the bureaucracy and kind of manufacturing and adjusting it to the needs of the government program rather that it loses its strength and its principal position in regards to Aboriginal people having control when it gets under there. And I think at the moment we're in a, my own personal views, I think we're in a fairly terrible position in relation to the kind of federal organisations that are there to work with the Aboriginal community. From a government policy position. The only government policy, obviously the flagship policy is closing the gap. And while obviously there are merits in wanting to work in that area, you have to ask yourself the question, why are we doing this? I mean, this has been like 50 years of a significant public investment and we're still basically at ground zero with a lot of these communities in terms of their health and their housing and their other essential material needs and requirements. So, you know, we have to ask ourselves this question and why do we keep on doing the same things and seeing the same kind of failure levels, why, you know, that's an important issue of accountability for governments in my view. Okay, thank you. Something a little closer to home, an anonymous question, which, which asks, I'm just an ordinary member of the Australian National University. What can I do to respectfully offer support? Well, it's a, it's a good question. And a lot of people ask that question. And not just, I mean, I've always, there's a lot of good people in this country. I think that's given, and they do want to do the right thing, but, and they don't know how to do that. So, certainly we as a portfolio have a responsibility to be able to reach out to those people at the university in a more coherent way. We're only a fledging organization, but we'll do that. The intent of the university is to ensure that we do have that ability to provide options for individuals and others, academic and professional staff and others to work with us. I think basically the first responsibility is to really inquire. I mean, the university is an education institution. The first thing is to inquire is to delve to see it as a portal to understand better because I think, you know, I think that we, as Australians, we remain diminished if we don't make an attempt. We don't do our work to find out what the truth or the reality of the situation is. There are many competing views, but I think the best way is to really get unhappy to reach out for that particular person would like to communicate with me offline at some time I'm happy to talk about what some of the things that might be able to do. But generally speaking, I think, you know, it's important to inquire. That's what, and that's what university is there for. Sure. Thank you. The next one is another anonymous one, which says that the Macorata Commission doesn't get much attention as part of the earlier statement. What does truth telling look like? Is it something we can start on while we wait for constitutional reform and or agreement, making which seems more politically charged. No question, Michael, I think, I think there are things we can start on. I think one of the, one of the, there needs to be a truth telling commission because I mean, you know, we can't move on unless there is a clear line of the sand drawn. You know, what's an all I think we're obliged as a country to do that. We can start to do things. I, and Brian will know I've said on a number of occasions, what we really need in this country is a national oral history project. What we really need is a way of reaching out so that we can get black and white people to tell their stories at the local level. It should be a national program. You know, it can spend $500 million on the war memorial. I think that it can spend, you know, half that amount of money in terms of setting up a national oral history project that would be operated at the local level to bring local people together in telling the stories document those stories. We need to have a national oral history center at the university so that we're able to to house those stories but it's this many different aspects of that. Part of it is is obviously very specifically the question of First Nation people's relationship with the nation state. But we're a country also of immigrants. There's a whole history of migration in this country. And there's an added requirement to hear the stories of the people who migrated a country, even if you want to go right back to the first day of of Philip Blanning in Sydney Harbor to to hear the real stories. So that we shine this beacon of light of who we are and what we are because I don't think we've yet achieved that we struggle with it. We're in the politics, two thirds of the majority of the population live on the east coast, two thirds of the nation is considered rural remote. Most of us don't look novel. A lot of people don't look over their backyard to see what's happening in Australia. Unless they're often on a track on some holiday. So I think we can start ourselves. We can start mission and we shouldn't wait for governments to do it. We're a necessary partner, obviously. But, you know, there can be a significant effort and endeavor made by us in the community and a project like a National History Project, I think would stand us in good stead. In relation to, because it's at the local level, it's at the personal level, I think it would offer great value. Okay. Thanks from Gary Humphries, who's one of our members here in the ACT. He says, Peter, thanks for an excellent and insightful address. Do you feel that the High Court's decisions in Marbeau and WIC have satisfactorily resolved the question of restoring Indigenous people's relationship with their traditional lands? Or should political actions now supplement those decisions? Because we don't have a uniform system in the country other than the Native Title Act, which operates, obviously, as a consequence of the Marbeau decision in 1992. But Western Australia still doesn't have a piece of legislation that puts in play the kind of administration management of those interests. So it's left to the, again, to the courts. Even though I must say that there have been some successful negotiations through consent determination outside of the Indigenous environment. But I think the land is the one part of the issue. And it's a very conglomerate and confused. It takes a lot of money. Native Title bodies that call prescribed body corporates probably only get about $58,000 to $60,000 a year. That's not enough to employ somebody to work to take advantage of the nature of the opportunity that is gained from the recognition of the Native Title rights. But out of that is missing the whole question of water. Water is a central part to the cultural and ritual needs and imperatives that drive Aboriginal and traditional life and customary life. It's just common sense. I mean, we all know we're a drought country, we're a fire country. Water is a critical part for every critical part of the whole makeup for every one of us. But it has a very peculiar and very particular meaning and responsibility in Aboriginal cultural terms. And that's not something that's contained within the Marbeau High Court decision. I think the whole question of representation, the question of compensation, I mean, basically Native Title is really a matter of recognition of rights. It's not a separate tenure as such. The High Court decision in Timber Creek in 2017 provides some level of insight into the evaluation of Native Title rights or interest sorry, tenure as opposed to fee simple. But what it doesn't do and that's going to be a major issue Michael that because that hasn't yet been addressed by governments, but it's a live issue at the moment where governments are going to have to address the question of compensation following the Timber Creek decision in 2017. So Marbeau is just a step. One comment I would like to make which is kind of a good surgery with the question is, is we have lurched from crisis to crisis and milestone for milestone. What I mean by that is, since 1967 to the partial award wages in 68 and 72 since the first Aboriginal. Department in 1976 the Land Rights Act in 1975. If you look at the history. This, this notion of incrementalism in achievement of certain socio cultural and legal milestones is something that cruells us because the fundamental thing is that Aboriginal people are not involved in the planning. And the termination and then in the execution of those achievements. And for many of these achievements, it has taken significant number of years of litigation on behalf of Aboriginal people to attain just recognition. The question is, what is right what is morally right, what is legally right in terms of governments leadership. What is right for this country because it's not just a matter of what's right for First Nations people. It is what is right for the country. How do we demonstrably reconcile the difference to the extent that the well being and health of the nation and well being and the common good for the nation is something that becomes a critical part of our nation building agenda. That is to me the question, and I think this is where, unfortunately, we've had consecutive doesn't matter which kind of political party we've had constant failure, constant failure to deal with this in a mature and responsible manner for the good of the nation. Thank you. The next one is from Phil. There's a number of questions rolling in now and I hope we're going to be able to do justice to them in the time that you're meeting the next one from Phil again here in Canberra. He says in the context of an Australia of 2021 where many of our citizens are of more recent overseas heritage not related to the colonial era, and thus they may not understand some of that background that you talked about. How can we develop a national consensus with that kind of population mix now that's needed to address your aspirations for us as a nation to address the wrongs. Well, unfortunately, like everything in Australia, you know, as much as I might sound critical of government, we need government. And we need the leadership of government. And that's really what I despair at, quite frankly. And I guess the way governments have a role with the people who've just recently come to the country. Well, they might be young and I think obviously there is a grave risk of losing the kind of intellectual knowledge of the history of Australia if we don't deal with this in an organized manner. This is where governments have a responsibility in again for the common good of being able to bring into apply support in partnership with Aboriginal people, the kind of value and benefits of the inclusive, inclusivity of including Aboriginal people in the national landscape, political and legal and social landscape. You know, it just astounds me that we as the oldest living continuous country culture on earth should have to strive to get that acknowledgement from our government to acknowledge what the kind of what the importance of that contribution and the values that we bring to that, not just in a general principle sense but I mean, talk today about climate change that's finished in Glasgow conference. Aboriginal people are now involved in large scale carbon offset programs by using the traditional fire management techniques by looking at things of biodiversity management by looking at questions of adding value to the trading environment in relation to the co benefits that come from getting jobs and training people. The, the, I think there's a, there's a different way we have to actually couch the kind of narrative and the message, things have changed dramatically. But I think with it we have to be much more creative about talking about the values and about the importance of the contribution that First Nations people spring for the benefit of the country you know in some ways. While people recognize the custodianship of traditional owners of their country. In some ways, much of the skills and the knowledge that that average of people bring custodians for the national estate, it's for all Australians, not just in terms of the imperatives that drive the cultural and customary responsibilities but it's also about. We all are awakening to the dangers and threat of climate change and the risk there is. We've been devastated issues with the wildfires and storms and flooding and all that sort of stuff the question is. How can we learn from the knowledge of millennia and longer, the knowledge base that average of people have to contribute to being able to future proof the country. We could use the narrative around very positive uplifting kind of things, rather than and the media is going to be able to come to this as well. Unfortunately, we largely the kind of the nature of the unfortunate relationship we have with the continuing systemic racism that we see in this country is largely reinforced by the way the media operates and I think that they can play a dramatic role in shifting the mindset of ordinary Australians. Okay, several more coming in, but I think we probably just had time for one last one. This is from from Bruce who asks, or he says thank you for the courage you showed in revealing those deeply troubling stories from your youth. It strikes me that the institution where you were placed must be a haunted place, a site of trauma for Indigenous Australians and others across the generations. How can such sites be healed. Have they have there been ceremonies that try to resolve and move beyond the pain that was suffered there. It's a good question I I've never returned there others I know my other peers some of them have returned and visited to try and deal with those guys. I know it's certainly not there is a mission anymore it's been converted into retirement village for for the Catholic Church. And so, or sold off for housing development. I, I, I think it's interesting because after I left the institution in my very early days I tried to speak to my peers about group counseling. I was fairly traumatized by it and I wanted to. Unfortunately, many have died. Many of them are very talented people. Many of them are my relations, my cousins, and my uncles and others who were very successful in, particularly in doing apprenticeships, you know, in as carpenters as mechanics. But when they left the mission and they went back home, they, they just fell apart because they because they, they had been away from their culture from their family they didn't know where they fitted in to their community. So many of them took up various vices that obviously were detrimental to their health. And so that, but unfortunately I didn't get a response from anybody I thought it would be a good start for us ourselves to talk about it to find out each other's experience, but that didn't happen. That's the problem. We also grew up in the era, like a lot of other Australia's where we weren't allowed to talk about those issues, mental health issues were not seen as you weren't a man or you had to, you know, you were weak somehow if you were able to express an emotional point of view on things. And that also affected many Aboriginal people. It was very confusing that you're completely taken out of your cultural life. Your family life. You're into it. It's like another country. It's a foreign country. You don't know you can't speak. Initially we were, we couldn't speak the language we weren't allowed to speak our language. We weren't allowed to mix with other Aboriginal people. We weren't allowed to. We were regimented in everywhere we went. So, you know, that's the truth telling, you know, Commissioner McElrider Commission is the process. That will help to heal that the unfortunate thing, you know, is we haven't gone anywhere near resolving the stolen generation issues. And the government's recent announcement to provide some level of payment to stolen generation people in the Northern Territory and the ACT, which equates to only about $70,000 I think per person, but you know, but it hasn't been, we have the apology. Well, symbolically important, what did it offer in real reparation? What did it offer in real sense of improving people's lives? Well, that's a very poignant note on which to end, but then we must, I'm afraid, and I apologize to those whose questions we haven't been able to get to, but our time is up. Peter, can I just thank you from the bottom of my heart for what has been a very worthy addition to the list of ANU lectures. I've been to half a dozen or so now. I missed the first half dozen, including Brian, but I think in terms of being both uplifting but profoundly challenging at the same time, this is certainly the best that I've attended. Thank you very much. Thanks for your personal insights in particular. And as somebody has said, the courage in sharing those with us, it's difficult to understand how challenging that must have been for you. So thank you very much on behalf of the Association for your contribution tonight. And I guess now, where we face to face, there'd be a round of applause and you can probably hear that echoing through the ionosphere around Australia. Let me take the opportunity, though, if I may, also to thank the Vice Chancellor, Brian Schmidt, and the University for the continuing support in taking this lecture forward. I know that Brian shared with us his own experience from 2013 and the impact that it had on him. He's told me that story before and I often tell it to people. So it just goes to underscore the importance of this event. And I think the, the attendance that we've had tonight also demonstrates that as I said earlier, it's a record attendance. So thank you, Peter, for that. But also thank you to the University for your continuing support. Thanks in particular to Jerry Neil, Rebecca and all the rest of the ANU staff who sat behind the scenes and made this all possible. You know, you all know who you are. And I really value the relationship that we have with you in bringing this together every year. Can I also thank, of course, all those who did register from around the country, including our Order of Australia Association members, particularly those who asked questions. I trust you enjoyed it. And we very much look forward to trying to meet together face to face next year for the first time in a couple of years. Brian, perhaps in the back of our minds, we might also note that there's a considerable advantage in broadcasting live around the country so that we can share experiences like this very rich experience tonight with a much wider audience. Thank you everybody and good night.