 I used to be vegan for like three years as well, so I know the thing. Alright, why aren't you vegan now? Are you a vegan? Um, I've got to be honest, no. How long have you been vegan then? I'm actually not vegan anymore. Crap. No! Oh, have you been here before? Have you seen this before? Yeah, yeah, I've seen it, I've seen it. I used to be vegan for like three years as well, so I know the thing. Alright, why aren't you vegan now? Actually, I think what actually happened, I was, I was wondering, like, say maybe three years into it, yeah? Three years into it, I started having mad dreams. I used to have dreams, I was waking up in Coase West, and I was eating me and I was panicking. I was panicking, so I thought, this needs to change. And I was losing so much weight, so like two, so I couldn't balance, balance the feeling. You weren't taking the calories in properly? Yeah, yeah. Have you seen this stuff before? Yeah, I've seen a lot of your stuff, mate. Oh, you haven't? Yeah. You've watched my videos, haven't you? Yeah, a lot, mate. Oh, really? Are you a vegan? Um, I've got to be honest, no. Okay. I was, I went, um, I went to veganism for about a year. Oh, really? And I found it good. Yeah. I'll be honest with you, I find it disgusting. And I- What, there's cruelty in that? Man, I find it absolutely disgusting, and I feel like a hypocrite, because the only thing I do eat, if I'm honest, with you is chicken. But that still makes me a hypocrite, because I absolutely, I've got three cats, I love them to pieces, I love animals, I'm a massive fan of animals, brings me to tears, there's a grown 39-year-old man, if I see cruelty to animals, so I'm a massive hypocrite. I don't, I couldn't work out whether it was actually you, and it is. Why am I, what am I doing in your town? Literally, no, I was just like... Hey, brother. Cheers, mate. How are you? Good? Good, yeah. Norwich vegan? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Norwich vegan? I just found another one. Oh, well. Yeah, it's a... We're growing, we're growing. We're growing, yeah. Have you tried out Moorish falafel? Moorish falafel? Probably closed now. But it sounds Moorish. Unbelievable. Have you had Moorish falafel? I have. You have? Not in, I don't remember, it must have been them. How long have you been vegan then? I'm actually not vegan anymore. I promise I am going back on track. Oh, God. What? Nah! We've already lost one in this conversation. Do you know the farm inside of stuff? The farm inside of stuff, I'm not really with that. The way I see eating meat, I say like, if you're eating it for, for to stay alive, then it's... Survival. Survival, and it's cool. But the way we're doing it now, it's too much. We're doing it for taste pleasure. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, and so much food gets wasted. And like... You know, they feed them grains and that. Of course, and all that has water. People are starving. 100%. The meat that I get, I get it from farms. I don't get it from supermarkets. So I get it only from farms, like local farms and stuff like that. So it's good, like they care for the animals and stuff. It's not just like stored. So, but I understand you lot's view as well. Because you say you just eat chickens. What about the milk and the eggs in that? I don't, I only, as you can see, I have oats. Tell me why I eat eggs. From my background, I always had eggs from a free-range source, you see. And it was always chickens that were kept by my mum's partner growing up. Backyard eggs. Absolutely. See? Okay, yeah. So it's absolutely free-ranging. It was a byproduct for me. So you only, you go to your mum and get eggs. You don't go, so if you're in the shop, like, let's just say there's a cake or something, you don't check if there's got eggs in there. I wouldn't eat that sort of thing. But it's so like, so in other, yeah, like, so... If you're able to eat, you can't guarantee that, right? Yeah, if you go out to eat, you're not going to be like, I don't eat eggs principally. No. You know. It's like my girlfriend over there, she's vegan. She's, she's vegan. So your girlfriend is vegan and you're, you're somehow not vegan? I know. Wait a second, you don't eat animals, do you? Do you eat animals? Yeah. Like who? Chickens? Or the pigs? Everyone? Everyone. Eat all the animals? God. Do you think you just slowly fell back into your normal conditioning that you were always accustomed to? I think so, I think so. Because in sixth form, it was a very, it was a very vegan place. So is it more when you're out and about or... And your family's not vegan, obviously? No, I didn't get a lot of support from my family with it. Oh, so how do you feel about it all, though? Do you feel bad about it? Got it. Oh, wow. And I think not to put this the wrong way, but seeing you, it just made me think, what have you done to her, what have you done, girl? I just assumed that you were vegan and then I was like, can you drop the bum on me? Of course you would, of course you would. Why wouldn't you? Animals are just, they're like us, but they're not as different types of intelligence. But when you look in their eyes, there's someone in there, you know? 100% you can see. Yes, and I do love animals as well, so I do get. I get what you're saying. You might go to this local farm sometimes, but when you're out and about, you don't always go to the local farm. I mean, I've recently stuck a camera in a local slaughterhouse to have a look at how they're being killed. And the cows try to escape the knockbox. They're terrified. There's body parts everywhere. And it's a horrible way to get killed when it's completely needless for life. Of course, of course. And the thing what I thought was like, do you know like, these animals are getting slaughtered like that. They know that, they know okay, they're going to be slaughtered and they're going to be killed. So we eat that energy. They get adrenaline before they die, the fear. So even if they got this happy life, well, I think about this, they're happier they are, the more of an interest they have in continuing their life. To murder them is more of an injustice. If you get like a human being, they've got everything going for them. They just graduated university. They're really intelligent. They're all happy and they go up and shoot them in the head. People say, well, that's a tragedy. They were happy, had everything going for them. So the happier the animal, the more of an injustice it is to kill them. All free range eggs in the commercial sense are still disgusting. For many reasons, they macerate the male chicks in the blender or they gas them or they gas all the hens and make them into processed chicken. And so the egg industry is on par or worse than the meat industry. But you know, it's weird because chickens actually have the same color eyes as you. I don't know if you ever looked in the eyes of a chicken. They're blue eyes. They've got little blue eyes. Yeah. They originate from Scandinavia. I don't know too, but they have beautiful little blue eyes. Oh, okay. And there's someone inside of there. I know. I know. I'm not going to stand here and try and defend the reason I eat meat. I'm not going to do that. Yeah. Oh, God. And you know what makes me feel the worst is that I've watched hours of this content and it's just made me be kind of desensitized at all. I guess seeing it get processed. I think I guess it's different when you understand that behind their eyes is an individual. Yeah. No. And it's it's it's it guts me even more because I have pet rats and like, you know, they're always killed. Like people people go, oh, I just want a future rat to mistake. I just want like, I know it's not the same because they're not like mass produced and killed. But it's like even if they're still the same and they're still beings, the people. Intelligent little beings, little non-human people, little blue eyes and especially chickens, they get a really, really hard time. Like the only reason I'm doing this is to get the public's opinion on what's going on and try to persuade people who watch the video to choose another way. Because a lot of people's justifications, I don't think, you know, are good enough for this, you know. Of course, of course. And everyone likes to think they get these happy human stuff. But they really don't. We want things so quick. So it's got convenience. So that's why they're just killing more, killing more, killing more. Even even these days, it's like, I'm in a stage now where like I'm learning to do my own vegetables. Oh, that's good. So I've got like a garden and I'm sort of planting my own vegetables because even the vegetables, they're no good. They can't be. They're a lot better than this because 100 percent. They get all the pesticide built up in them from all the food they eat. You know, if you're just eating the food directly, you get a lot less concentration of pesticide anyway. But it's the killing then, the suffering and the blood that does it for me, man. And we put that in our body. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. This is the thing. It's not just saying, I don't need meat. It's a lifestyle change, isn't it? It's like you change the way you view animals. So you don't see them in vending machines for eggs anymore. You don't see them as meat machines. You don't see them as milk machines. You're changing the way you view them so that society changes the way they view them and no longer commodifies them. Because as soon as you see an egg as a food group, that's where factory farms began. They all were backyard eggs at one stage. Yeah, exactly, yeah. And then someone was like, hey, you know, I like eggs. I can make one. Now I've got to, everyone sees an egg as food now and they have to meet that demand and they have to have factory farms. But until we have a whole paradigm shift and you stop seeing an egg as food, nothing's going to change. Agreed, I can't disagree. Yeah. Every time you eat animals, you're paying for the worst cruelty on earth, there's nowhere around it. And because you know, like a lot of people aren't as aware as you are. So because you have that awareness, like the moral culpability is much higher. Yeah. Because you know how bad it is and there's still... That's why I think, honestly, it's more like a an unconscious sort of habitual thing. Maybe you've fallen back into... No, I think it is as well, but it's just... I'm mad at myself. You know, you've got Happy Cow. You know Happy Cow? If you know what Happy Cow is? Yeah, yeah. You can find vegan restaurants and you've got more options than ever before in the UK. I have Happy Cow. And you've seen the footage and you know what you're doing. I don't even have to have this conversation with you. So you're rats. Do you have dogs and cats? I have... You know, I've been investigating a lot of UK farms recently. And... Do you still go into them? Yeah, I go into the farms all the time here. And they are disgusting, horrible places where there's always sickening suffering and birds just dying on their faces, slowly breathing. You don't know who to rescue. It smells pungent, like ammonia and feces. Because even like me and my wife was water-pulling. We really looked into it. We slowed everything down. So like now we will have meat, maybe say like once a week or sometimes even more. Because it's like when you think of it, average person, they have like every meal. Three meals a day. Yeah, three meals a day. Meat, meat, meat, meat. Well, if you don't have much of it, it's easy to kick them, brother. 100%. You know what I mean? Because if I put the gun in your hand and I had a cow here, who do you eat? Cows, lambs or chickens? Who do you mean? What animals do you eat? All the animals? Yeah, yeah, most of them. Like do you eat pigs in that? Um, yeah, yeah. Like bacon, ham and... Yeah, yeah. So if I put these animals in front of you, like a pig nuzzling, would you be able to... No, no, I know definitely, I wouldn't be able to. So that's, what is that, what is that, mate? Because even like, I wanted to go fishing, but I didn't know I could do it. Stick a hook in a fish's face and suffocate them. Yeah, you're good-hearted. I hated being a hypocrite myself. Sure. I hated it. Like, I don't like it. I don't... I try to be as consistent as I can. Yeah. And I try to better myself. Yeah. But with the cruelty to the animals and the suffering of the animals, that was one thing I really had to be consistent about. Because I couldn't justify being cruel and violent to the innocent for taste pleasure. Sure, absolutely. Like, yeah, I couldn't agree more. Like, are we going to... Yeah, exactly. Am I going to sit there and have a burger or a piece of chicken or whatever that be for the taste, or am I actually going to stand up as a man and say, this is absolutely f***ing immoral? It's too bad. It's way too bad for me to support. Like, I can't support that. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. And you forget about your meal like soon. Like, I don't even... I have to struggle to remember what I had for breakfast two days ago. It's gone. It's forgotten about, you know. The fact that I don't eat meat affects my life zero. Like, at this point, I can look around. I go, oh, there's Burger King there. There's Pret there. There's... I can... Oh, M&S there. I know where there's vegan stuff everywhere because I've been doing it for so long now. It's really easy to get a hang of it. Yeah, yeah. And now it's just... I live my life. You know what I mean? And I think people that can't make this small lifestyle change, I'm like, why? Yeah, why? It's as easy as like... Okay, I'm not going to grab chicken. I'm going to learn how to cook the best tofu. Absolutely, yeah. And it's still keto, actually, tofu. Yeah, yeah, sure. Sure. And it's full of protein, calcium, no cholesterol, really unsaturated fat. So it's a really good food tofu, actually. For that chicken, it's there. It's a life of suffering and supporting something that we're going to look back in history and go, why did we do that? When we have people that know and understand and go vegan, we need them for the animals. Like, we need them to help change the world. Otherwise, we're just like... It's that apathy, you know, when you get that mundane back into life and you pull away from your social circles that we're vegan and you just get sucked back into, like, the culture, that's where the danger is, the apathy that are... Like, I'll just mindlessly consume them, I don't really care. That's where... That's what most people do. So when we get someone who snaps away, really... The animals really need them. Really need them. We're like, I live such a fast life and at the time, like, it wasn't as easy when I was doing it, you know, so... And I was just like touring all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. So it was harder for me to do it. I get it. So I got to the stage where I was... Because when I was doing it, I wasn't... I wouldn't even eat honey because it's not for the bees or something like that. So I used to pack my meals and take it. I don't go that far. Because now in the UK, it's easy. Yeah, but now, yeah. How long ago was this when you... I'm talking maybe... Maybe like 10 years ago. F*** it, bro. Oh my God. 10 years ago. And I was eating it for like three years. I'll get you. Everything's changed now, man. I know, I know. It's... But lately, I've been going to get back into it, but just be more on it. You should be, brother. You're against this stuff, obviously. I can see what you're doing and why you're doing it. I support it, which I feel bad for, because I support it, yet I'm a part of it, which is not really what I want. Maybe seeing you today is maybe... Maybe the messages that I've been sort of, you know, telling myself over the last three or four weeks. Hey, mate. Um, you know, maybe that is a case that, you know, just seeing you today by chance is something that'll make me go away and maybe start. Thank you for today. I'm not trying to square it, but I am. Maybe it's a sign. Maybe it's your sign to get back on... Get back on it. Trust me, mate. I don't need you to tell me. Yeah. Thank you for the information and the resources, because I think today was what I needed. Really what I needed. But yeah, it's been lovely to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. I hope you have a bloody brilliant day. Thank you. And thank you for all your work. Thank you so much. Take care, sir. Really nice to meet you. Take care. Take care. See you later.