 Get in the Christian community all up in a tizzy. I've got news for you many Professing Christians. Oh boy go to church every Sunday Mm-hmm give money to their church and probably were raised in a Christian home. Yeah, unfortunately on Judgment Day Are gonna sadly find out that they are going to hell and my friend It is very possible that you watching this video right now very well May be in that number. Oh boy. Let's hear it out. He's a said that one day at Judgment He's gonna say depart from me. I never knew you now That's not the passage of scripture They're gonna look at in this particular video But what I believe is happening in our society today is that we are placing such a huge Emphasis on just believe believe believe and let me be very very clear believing in Jesus Christ is the only Pre-requisite for being a Christian the question is what does it actually mean to believe? Oh, here we go Look like here. We go. You see. I mean, we already know Alan parz a lordship salvation is he's a works, you know works-based Guy, you know, he trusts in his works. He's Calvin. And so, you know, he doesn't get the gospel right So I'm not gonna be surprised by whatever he says But you know, it's always nice when people just like put it out in the open and just let people know what's up And is your belief consistent with your behaviors? Because James says that if you have faith without works, that is a dead faith. Yeah Just by looking at the comments even as they're as they're scrolling in the chats And there are people in the chats who are on this channel all the time and are almost I won't say almost always but are pretty United in what we talk about no one. Well, I take it back one person has accused me of being works-based salvation sort of kind of person and never ever ever have I said anything remotely like that I think though what the issue is even if we look at the chat Even if we're different with people who we customarily agree with on this issue Is it possible? Is it just possible that maybe there is a misunderstanding on both parts? You've got extremes on both parties You've got those that believe that what they call easy believism that all I got to do is just say the words I'm good Then you got those that say well, no, no, no, no, no, no, you've got to do all these different works Well, those are the extreme and by the way by the way Those that end up ultimately disagreeing with what I'm going to say I'm going to present you with a huge problem a huge dilemma Now I'm going to ask you guys to do this I know you won't I know I know you guys won't but I want to ask it anyway I'm going to ask that you would just hold up on some of the typing Hold up on the comments Especially going back and forth to each other because I think that there is Some sort of unity with both sides Why do I say that? Well, first of all both sides hopefully believe that Jesus Christ You must have placed your faith in him in order to be saved Same thing with those that believe you can lose your salvation versus those that believe you can't The main question is do you have Christ? And so I think that's the main thing and then where we start differing on certain things Let that be not as big. I don't want to minimize it because Our walk in Christ is important. Would you all agree? And so I have a problem with this with this whole discussion. I really do Why have a problem with this whole discussion is because I'm actually okay with both of them young Don is uh, he's actually At least in his passion the model of what we want every young Christian because you would all agree that We don't have a lot of young folks out there who are passionate about Christ Now what we do sometimes though, and I'm not going to be guilty of this Is impugning the young people for the sake of being young now because when you're young You're doing say some things that you probably shouldn't and you'll come back later because I can promise you this If he sees I hope he sees this because I actually would like to sit down and just talk with them I tried to get his contact information. I just didn't get it in time. And so maybe I'll I'll get it But that being stated when I was I think someone said that maybe he was 23 24 what have you or 28? I'm not sure how it is but 26 27 28 whatever he is he's I think his age would put him as my third oldest child I remember when I was that age Whatever I was doing. I knew that in another year 3 4 5 10 years, I'll be wiser. I'll be smarter not to say that he's that being young makes you wrong No, because a lot of times being old makes you wrong. I mean you can be old and wrong So it's not an issue of age, but at the same time I do I give More grace to people at 30 someone says he's 28. Okay. I give more grace to someone who's young Because this young folks young folks just do stuff sometimes. It just it is what it is. I've seen some of his videos He has some long live streams and they're but even the live streams are energetic And so I'm listen young Don if you're here, I'm for you, brother No, no matter what are there some things I disagree with him. Sure. He is he is kjv only young Don If we could have a conversation about that We would just have we would go through a few things and we'll say, okay. Well the kjv only stuff I love the kjv I do but only no But that being stated, I love him. I also love Alan Parr now I've spoken with Alan Parr a few times as well I've never spoken with young Don and so I know where Alan Parr is coming from problem is though in this world Of social media and YouTube what we tend to do sometimes is we might pigeonhole somebody or sometimes we go looking for a fight Have have you all ever done that you go looking for a fight and sometimes you don't hear the clarity What someone's saying because you're looking for a fight for example If a person Does not believe in Calvinism and they hear that the person is a Calvinist They might attack everything the person says but what he said was true But it came out of a Calvinist mouth So I can't listen to or vice versa a person is an Arminian and a Calvinist looks that person's like Well, I'm not gonna listen to anything. He said, wait a second. Wait a second We need to stop on some of these things Sometimes we we we engage in the wrong fight My mother comes home We come she comes home and me and my brother my brother Chris the one I call my dumb brother Is a year and a half older than me and we're fighting And her point is you mean tell me I'm out here working my tail off doing all this working these hours come home and my two boys are here fighting And so what happened? We both got a whooping now He got a bigger one because he was older Because you know I'm younger I could I could blame it on him, but we do that There's some people we should be fighting. There's some folks that are honest to goodness rules Honest to goodness heretics honest to goodness false teachers false prophets And what's funny is We have more folks defending them than we do have folks defending or attack. We got more folks attacking Alan par Because I didn't like the way he now I I even told Alan listen Alan I would love it if you would have if you would go after more of these people But that's just not what he's doing. Am I going to impute? No, I'm not No And I think listen we got it twisted. We got it all wrong now Let me bring out my friend Who has seen the scars of the of of people out there who call themselves Christian and are not we've seen them If you want to see some people that say they're Christian that say they believe and you can tell and I mean you can tell They're not We've seen it In prison you'll see all this but guess what it's not just in prison It's not just in prison. It's all over now. I'm gonna get to that in a second, but I if if I'm a part of it I if I've caused folks to kind of help to engage in this Belief that we should go after everybody. I apologize. There are some folks I'm gonna go after and the and with good cause We're gonna use the scriptures and go after them Are you with me? No, no, no, no, I disagree the worst wolves don't sound right They don't that's just it the worst wolves You hear what they say now they may say something that tickles the ear But when we hear their points As discerning Christians that read the bible Nope, that ain't it Now my point is this Someone said, um What is your point? Are you saying Alan was correct and his doctrine? Uh, I'm gonna get to that point. By the way, I saw some some of the chastis lively chats and so forth And I even heard someone say I'm not sure it was someone said that that if cori agrees without Alan I'm unsubscribing by You are you have listen, I don't know why you haven't left yet Because I need you to understand something that I'm not going to nor should anyone be beholden to a subscription Or us disagreeing in order for us. We can't be friends if we disagree I'm I'm I'm pretty old. I'm up there. I've got grandkids. I've been through a lot and so that's not gonna move me I want you to hear the scriptures Because again, maybe There's truth on both sides and we need to start having a meeting and understanding when we go through the scriptures here On this channel. We go through them to see what god is trying to do remember above all else You guys who have been in the class before Above all else What's the rule number one? Above all else god is sovereign. He runs the world Not girls. He runs the world. He's in charge and he is a god who does not change And we've got to ask ourselves some question. What is it that god is trying to accomplish on this planet in us? Until we get to there are you with me? Are you with me now? There were some things that were put out about Alan. I said, no brother Now again, I've I've even listened. I've even done a video Alan I even talked about the video the idea where I publicly criticized him because doctrine is fair game Doctrine is fair game But it's how we do it if I disagree with with with with alit or with with with ruslan Or with latin flowers or with james white or with whomever tony evans my former pastor. I full I publicly disagree with Because it's doctrine doctrine is fair game, but you know what i'm not doing heretic wolf going to hell And I've tried to get folks to understand the difference between someone who's wrong in their beliefs Versus actual wolf all of us are wrong somewhere So that being stated Um, I want to ask you a question I want to I want to Paul asks a question. He says or he makes a statement not a question. He says let any let every man examine himself Two questions. Why would he ask that question and how? Why would he ask that question and then how do we examine ourselves? Because there are a lot of people who say they believe and we're going to look at some of these scriptures as well um because I want to I want to ask you a question This also comes up when we talk about the word repent You mean tell me you got to repent before you get saved You mean tell me you got to stop sinning before you get saved. No, I've never said that I've never said that Your mind has changed But the thing that's required of us to do we can't do in and of ourselves It is a work first and foremost of because somebody said poor poor god He said poor alan because he's one of the larger youtube channels. And so people are going to It's just easy to punch at him not under some almost many subscribers Easy to punch it really easy and he goes through a lot of teachings And so there's a lot of things that you might disagree and pick on so you're right But he's a big boy. He can handle it. He can handle it. So somebody said what was my problem with uh with don Um, you are being scattered respectfully. Okay. I'm not being scattered. It's my problem with don don called him a heretic He's not a heretic Don thinks because he's a Calvinist, which he's not Alan leads more leans more towards dispensational. I know that because I asked him He's from Dallas the logical seminary, which is a dispensational seminary That being the case He asked matter of fact young don if you're listening asked a question He said what was the state? Let me see if I wrote it down uh I forgot something about uh, where does it say that we have to be disciples? Let me say this guys. Let me say this The bible knows of no christians who are i mean four things the bible knows of no christian who one doesn't believe or have faith Having faith belief is it. I don't know why some That is that is a requirement Two the bible knows of no christian who isn't baptized that is baptized in the holy spirit Not water baptized Holy spirit baptizers There's no such thing as a believer who does not have the holy spirit who has not been baptized in holy spirit Three the bible knows of no christian who has not repented I don't mean repent of your works repenting your mind. Well, what does your mind normally make you do? works Three i mean four the bible knows of no christian Hear me clearly the bible knows of no christian who is not a disciple We're gonna look at the scriptures You can disagree if you want to but i've got a problem that you're gonna have to reconcile in just matter of fact Do I want to go there now? I'm trying to decide don't want to go there now Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do in ellen's video. He stated that he made the statement professing christians Let me concur Most professing christians are not christians. Most professing christians are going to hell. Who's got a problem with that? If you do you are just not looking it doesn't take a whole lot of discernment to know that It doesn't take a whole lot of discernment to know that you can't can we just look at some of the most famous professing christians I mean some folks who say they believe I believe so let's just see there's no one One way to heaven no one way to paradise. It's like television now It's over 800 channels of cable and they're all pretty entertaining So i'm pretty sure man that to get to heaven. That's got to be more than one my favorite bible verse So the question is Is he Say is he a christian? He he believes the but he says that he believes Good old steve carry believes do you all believe that that that's assembly. He's a christian No, no, I wouldn't I wouldn't say so. He believes one of the more famous christians One of the more famous professing christians. How about this lady my favorite bible verse because I am christian Is axe I used to know the number but this was an axe y'all can google it But it says thank you 17 28 In god, I live and move and have my being so do you have a favorite uh passage from the bible? Yes, I do Okay, mine is uh psalms 374 delight Thyself. Oh, I love the word delight. Don't so here's the big question. Are there many paths to get to the one god? Well, I believe I am a christian who believes that there are there are certainly many more paths to god other than christianity Do you all believe that now she says she believes she says she's a christian That's one of the extreme the extremes. Yeah Saying you are that remember Jesus the one that says not everyone who says to me lord lord now Just because you have works also Just because you do some stuff doesn't mean it either. I'm on point to a passage I'm going to point to matter of fact some passages but one in particular where a person is said to believe And we find out that he's not saved Hmm, which is the question alan brooch What do you mean or what does the bible mean by believe now if you've watched this channel enough? We've covered what the biblical definition of believe is we we went to the greeks Some folks had a problem with that, but we're going to the greek as well But here is one of the more famous christians one of the more profess christians One of the more profess believers someone who says that I believe I stayed for 60 days war white abstained from mirrors abstained from sex I'm levitating Confessed my sins and was baptized in a river got on my knees and said amen and said I mean I whipped my own back and asked for dominion at your feet. I crossed myself and thought I saw the devil I grew thick and skin on my feet. I bathed in bleach and plugged my menses with pages from the holy book She's talked about plugging up her On her period with pages of the bible I don't know Your belief might be a little bit different in my belief miss beyond safe Now, let me just say this clear because I think you guys are still some people just not listening No one is saying works gets you saved Works do not save you. Let me say it again works. Do not save you you can do all the works you want You will not be saved Did I say it well enough? Works are if you think you're saved by your works, you're not safe If you think you're saved by your works, you're not saved Now kept by Jesus. It's like you're looking for an issue. You said, why are you comparing Steve and Beyonce to what Alan said? This is far from what Alan even you know, it's not If anyone can say they believe Then they're saved Alan's because what it is is you all have some of you all have missed his point because we've got these divides Between the folks who lordship salvation. He's not lordship salvation or the folks that faith alone. He does believe in faith alone Now can I actually get into his heart and figure out all the things that he knows and believe? No, I don't I can't But let me tell you from my standpoint and all I can do is go off his words and what I'm saying other folks are saying Uh, anyone that that wants to put works as in regards to their salvation make that mean something. They're wrong Okay, but now do works count. We are not saved by works at all It's not a as I heard someone say it's not a works based salvation. It's a works laced salvation Do you know what I'm saying? Works laced in other words, you're saved and you're gonna work. We're gonna look at people saying this And I'm gonna I'm gonna present some problem. Matter of fact, can I you know what? I'm not gonna even wait I'm gonna start presenting some problems Uh before yeah, see here's the thing though kept by jesus. We're gonna get this whole issue about counting the cost as well So I'd like for you to do me a favor kept by jesus Hush for a second We can't get through and show you the points. Is it possible? Is it possible? You're wrong matter of fact matter of fact Let me ask you guys a question before I get to this to limit that some folks are gonna have Let me ask you guys a question. There's 500 going on 600 people 600 people here Maybe 700 who knows but let me ask you guys a question. Let me ask you guys a question Especially the ones that believe that alan was wrong young don whomever. Let me ask you guys a question Are you a disciple? That's my question. Are you a disciple? Kept by jesus. Are you a disciple anyone else? Are you a disciple? I want to hear you. Tell me. No, you're not a disciple I want to hear any of you guys that believe this. Tell me that no, I'm not I'm not a disciple of christ Help me out. Tell me you're not a disciple right now We make it more difficult than it really is we really do so kept by jesus specifically you I want to hear you don't I want to hear what you say. Do you believe sir? Or man, I'm not sure. Do you believe that we are that you are a disciple? My question is if you're not why not but I believe I believe you're gonna say yes Because something has happened in you So I but see I had a conversation with it with a friend of mine Who was telling me all you got to do believes all you and I said you're right. You're right. You're right. All you got to do is believe But now see we're in prison together Some y'all didn't know I was in I was in prison we were in prison together And I found not all of them not everyone I'm not saying I'm not impugning everyone But this particular person one of his biggest issue was that he just loves sin more than he loved Christ He knew that jesus was the way he knew that plays his faith in christ was a way and he would say that I believe And he would tout this he wouldn't when I say he was doing all sorts of things I mean all sorts of things and he brought He he gave a bad name to the followers of christ so now You got folks that are getting on allen Because of this issue And they may get on me. I listen you all know I am not I don't have an issue with having this conversation Sometimes I mess up Thank god that it's not my mess of that take me out or even my doing good that brought me there None of that happened god did a work in my heart I'm gonna talk about god doing a work in our heart that brought us to this point in the first place And I want you all to see how some of this stuff is just noise and foolishness And we even if you're 28 or 38 or 48 we got to grow up on this There's folks out there attacking the body and we don't fight them. By the way you guys. Thank you for super chat I'm sorry. I haven't been I've been missing these. Sorry, but Let me ask you guys a question I played some some very well known Um Professed christians folks who say they believe Can I put I want to show you some other folks who also say that they believe some of them have passed As a matter of fact this one in particular he he's already passed This person said he believed as a matter as a matter of fact as a matter of fact His church was the first mega church in america So we believe at least at the time we believe that he believed What about him? This guy said he believed y'all believe he believed Some folks like who was that that is jim jones 900 plus people died at his hands Colt leader Y'all believe he believed He said he did What about here's about here's somebody who also says that he believed He's still alive Without question. He's not a believer. He believes that jesus died for our sins Y'all think he believed No, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna put that in the no category for for belief. I don't think no. No. No, sorry What about ooh, ooh What about this person? How about this pastor? How about this pastor? Do you think this pastor believes? It's a lesbian priest Not sure man Not sure or this gay pastor. What about him? Or what about someone who advocates for people being gay and says the bible is cool with that? That okay, or what about this person here who has He's been convicted. He was leading the flock says he believes But was convicted of molesting children this guy people got on alan par For calling marcus riders a brother Called him a brother and and people just went off on him He ain't a brother and I think that what he was trying to say. I don't know I take minutes where he said that he that he was just saying just hey brother. Like I walk to convenience to a brother. How you doing? question He he got in trouble for calling this person a brother And this person who he called was a brother that many of you say is not a christian is not a brother He clearly says he believes matter of fact. He reads out of the bible What about him? What about this guy What about this guy? Or even this guy This guy says he believes My question is my point is there's a lot of people who say they believe Someone asked me court. You believe you can lose salvation. No Well, then why are there all these warning passes because you may think you are and are not that's why jesus says not everyone Who says to me lord lord Who calls him lord? Not everyone who calls me lord Is Jesus even said why do you call me lord and don't do what I say? He says some of you all have done some things though, but I never knew you Paul goes on uh And right in the church of Corinth. He says let every man examine himself and woman examine himself to see if he does Have christ you need to examine now. Here's the issue God has a huge problem with sin. That's always been the problem, right? That's always been the problem sin Sin No, the doing is not believing. No, no, that's not it either Kept by jesus because we find out that we can't do it We can't do it We cannot do it. You're right. The devil does believe but now I'm gonna point out what the word believes Some of you all have been on this channel enough to know this There's a difference between believe and believe what what wait a minute core. You're confusing me I'll unconfusion just a second in just a second, but God has an issue with sin does he not The world was thrown into chaos because of sin. What did he do because of sin? Well Put man out of the garden man is now going to die God does not take sin lightly By the way, if he doesn't take sin lightly, how do you think he feels about sin in people who have the Holy Spirit in them? Doesn't take that lightly either Doesn't take that lightly either now I want to pull up something that God said he's gonna do because he's he's dealing with these people whom he loves But they've got this sin issue And the sin issue is just getting on. I'm just I'm being metaphorically guys Getting on God's last nerve. He's bothered. He's bothered by that What is God going to do about this sin in us? Look what he says. These are not my words. It's a God's words He says in Ezekiel 36 he says then I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you And I will remove the art of stone from your flesh and give you a new heart now What he's going to them remember under the old cover under the law What they had to do They had to place their faith In what God was providing for them for the atonement. All that was required was their faith All right, that's all that was required All that was required was their faith in what got same thing now Are you with me? So I haven't left the farm yet. I want you all to get this All that was required was their faith And then also for them to follow him after that he did he did want the Jews to follow them He he literally wanted them to follow him But what was required for them to have their sense of tone for was simply their faith Can I get a witness can I get amen as everyone agreed with that you should all what was required was their faith But they were unfaithful people So what was God's remedy for their lack of faith? He says this at the very next pass. He says I will put my spirit within you and do what? Cause you to walk in my statues and you will be careful to observe my ordinance the Hebrew word is halak Which means to go to follow to walk So you are going to After I put my spirit in you After I put my spirit in you the holy spirit As believers the bible knows of no believer the bible The bible knows of no believer who doesn't have the holy spirit I'm trying I'm I'm trying to listen some of these things. What do you say? Uh smart christian channel isn't research in christianity repenting choosing. No, I have no idea what you're talking about sir But but pay attention do this do do us a solid and pay attention Do us a solid and pay attention because what I've said so far is not incorrect I've I've just quoted a zika 36 I've stated a known fact that god has an issue with seeing with his people He wants to would you let me ask you guys a question Even those who disagree Would you all agree that god has a problem with sin and wants to do something about sin in our life? Would you hey see road warrior? Would you all agree with that would you all agree that jesus the god jesus god The lord has a problem with sin and wants to do something about it in our life Or does god not care about sin in our life? I think he does I think he does because he speaks about it so What is god's remedy? What is god's remedy for the sin in our life the holy spirit? And he says in doing so he the holy spirit will cause us to walk hawak in his statues Are you with me? Now you said see kept by teaching not paying attention Have I said anything wrong so far? Matter of fact matter of fact do me a favor sir and you and pine is a pine creek or pine creek or whoever else who disagrees Put a w up and tell me what I've said that was wrong so far Don't tell me what you think i'm going to say or where i'm going to but put a w up and tell me what I've said Wrong thus far you're going to prove my point. Hurry up pine creek. Hurry up. Uh, it's kept by uh, But just kept by whatever. I forgot your name Put a w in front so I can know i'm looking Put if you if anyone thinks that I've said anything wrong thus far put a w up and then tell me exactly what I've said wrong thus far I want to kind of engage you guys We've got about an hour left. So put a w up and tell me what exactly not where you think I'm going Don't tell me what you think I mean or the implication just tell me what I've said thus far That's wrong. You're not going to be able to because if you do now you are saying something that's blasphemous What have I said? Workspace religions are from satan self said no one But no one's talking about a workspace religion What have I said? Okay, I'm sorry pine creek. I'm sorry. I didn't know what you're asking Uh, what have I said? Okay, so far. I don't get a w. Okay. You said that work was not believing And I posted the scripture proof I said work was not but when did I say that? I said Marcus no no proverbs. I don't know proverbs. I said Marcus right as says he believes Well, so I haven't said anything I didn't say that listen Us believing Is who's doing Ours or he is He causes that we are born of the spirit first then John three the whole discourse that he's having with necronymus all the way down to the famous pastor john 316 so God wants to Fix this issue of sin in our lives. How does he do so the holy spirit? So he brings about the holy spirit again those four things that I said the bible knows of no person No christian ever ever ever ever ever Ever who is not believing now. What does it mean to believe? This is why I made this thing before we've covered this before When the bible used the term of a believer or who believes or believed When we go look at the greek We'll see this we'll see either a present active participle Present active things. Well, so we'll see this condition of constantly believing So a believer is someone who is believing If a person is believing You're kept by stop typing kept by Jesus. You are you are you are a person looking for an argument. Stop it stop it so by the way, by the way, I someone said someone said that that Someone else called alan the heretic a wolf A false teacher But alan believes So how could he be that? I mean shouldn't that be enough? Should you can't have it both ways? He can't be a wolf a false teacher heretical all these things and believe at the same time He he can't be all those things I suspect I suspect That many people matter of fact, I don't I don't suspect I know this that most people That will sit and type don't do their work or their research now I don't have a problem with bringing someone on and having this conversation I don't have a problem with it at all. I'm literally going through the scriptures Now we cover this word for believe the word believing is John 3 16 I pissed you on the ones that are believing the believing ones the one whoever it is that's believing John 647 We've covered this before This is why folks don't ever confuse me with being or having workspray salvation because I don't preach that John 647 that truly truly I said he that whoever believes using the perfect I mean the the present active participle in this continued state of believing That person has right now at this very moment eternal life And so we believe that in order to be saved you must be believed you must believe be able to be believing now. I want to contrast to Okay, cool. Okay, so young don about about to watch it I want to contrast two passages Because the issue is we've got it. We've got to figure out. Is there a difference? When it comes to believe Are there different types of beliefs? Well, and we probably could go over the parable of the sower You know what We won't for for lack of time But you all go back and look at the pair of the sower when Jesus explains When he says that the one that hurt and fell away was the one who believed And then walked away He believed But we're told that all we have to do is believe John 8 Uh, where is it? Let's pull up on the screen. I don't know why oh I've got you know, I've got this Another title for this thing. That's why I couldn't find this thing But john 8 36 makes it really really really clear. He says so if the sun makes you I'm sorry not 8 36 8 32 Don't go on it. Get it right Cory You will you will know the truth and the truth will make you free. They answer to him Where's my passage yet? Don't go on it. Am I in the right space? Okay, so Jesus was sent into the Jews who had believed him. Oh, here we go These Jews who had believed him if you continue my word, then you are my true disciples Now here are Jews who actually did believe I'm sorry. I'm looking at at two things at the same time. Hold on Let me fix this So what must I do to be saved that if you believe Romans 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe You shall be saved Romans 10 9 So all you got to do is believe they said serve what must we do to be saved believe on Jesus christ Is that right? So so far that part is accurate Believe I believe you have to believe I believe you have to believe is anyone else believe the same thing I believe you have to believe Well, I'm not gonna play the the entire video. There's no need to play the entire video I'm video enough how about that Because I don't want it to be a five hour long video. That's why number one But I'm pretty much saying what he's saying. So you got to believe Can I give you a passage that might give you some problems also? Let's go to ax chapter 8 ax chapter 8 But when but when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of god and the name of of christ They were baptized When they believed Now I want you to notice something This believing is when they were believing This believing is when they were believing I'm gonna show you a different word for believe And you'll see the difference because someone asked I just saw it What does it mean to believe? Good question miles good question Here it is We're gonna look at the bad believe First 13 even simon himself believed After being baptized now you all know the story The holy spirit comes and what a simon want to do he wants to buy it And peter rebukes him peter says that he prays that maybe even that god would grant forgiveness for him He says but simon answered pray the lord for me yourself so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me So he's worried simon is worried that man. I'm I might not be safe, but it just said that he believed right Well, let's go to verse 13 and see what it means the word that was used for believe for him Let's go there verse 13. He says even a simon believed at pister said This is an eras active indicative He did believe He did believe Apparently his belief was more superficial more head knowledge Now let's go to the passage that brings about a lot of problems james chapter 2 verse 14 What then i'm sorry, what use is it my brother if someone says he has faith but no works Can that faith and by the way the word for that is the word or the word for that faith is the faith over here Hey pistice, which is He's referring with by using the definite article. He's referring to a particular type of faith Can that faith that's generating nothing is that the kind of faith? He's posing a question Is that the kind of faith that will save? Well james clearly is not teaching a works based salvation And james there was a problem by the way guys You should know this that when they were trying to figure out Which books belong when they were trying to canonize this thing James was one of the last books that make it in I don't know if y'all realize that James was one of the last was one of the last ones to make it in the reason why is because folks say Is james preaching or teaching something that goes against paul? Is he giving a works based no no no and so his point was Because and by the way you just read that some of the early some of the early teachers of the early fathers They believe this that if indeed you are saved that Something's gonna happen if any man being crisis new creature old things passed away. So a new person Is going to exhibit those things james was not teaching or giving a new Belief Assess a system of beliefs. No and he was not saying that you have to be saved By your workings. No no no if you like the jews And the judiars was one of them do in glacians if you want it to be saved by your works paul says According to that if you are trying to be saved by your works and even kept by your works You know what paul says he says you have fallen from grace This is the past a lot of folks go to try to prove that you could lose your salvation Galatians five. No, he says you who Tried to be justified by your works Or by the law You have you already been cut off. There's no salvation for you So james is not saying that he's just saying that kind of faith Is dead Is he going? No, he's not going against anybody. He's just saying that kind of faith is what's dead True faith True belief is going to bring about something now. I said before The bible knows of no christian who is not constantly believing continually believing So when some life says you have to abide sure you got to abide we and we will abide you know why we're going to abide Because the holy spirit is in us the bible knows of no christian who is not baptized in the holy spirit You know why because in order to be a christian jesus paul says it's not going to do like john Jesus like john says it's not going to do like he was doing baptizing water But we'll baptize you in the holy spirit paul clarifies that and says that all Every single last christian every one of them Will has or has been baptized whether it been one minute one hour one day one year one millennial if you live that long Have all been baptized into the spirit So every christ if you're if you have the holy spirit you're christian if you don't have the holy spirit, you're not a christian Because you have the holy spirit in you and because he does the first work Which is to cause you to be born again as first peter says that you have been Caused to be born again by the spirit Titus says that three five john says that chapter three all through chapter three Because of that That causes a change in your heart. You now have a new disposition. That's the repentance that's required These things are all part of being a believer Being a christian and then also a disciple the bible knows of no christian who's not a disciple if you again If you don't think so as you said am i a disciple Now we'll get to these issues about being a disciple in just a little bit as well, but I want you to think about this Can you be a christian and not be a disciple who says that that's Those two different things salvation disciple. No they're not Remember jesus is the one who makes these statements and sometimes what he says is this he'll say something this way And that way and that way and that same the same thing Matthew 28 he says all authority has been given to me and so now what does he tell them to do to go Make disciples Baptizing them does that mean Does that mean You have that that you cannot be I'm sorry. Does that mean that he that he didn't want you to be saved that he didn't want you to believe sure That goes part somebody says go live with don uh, is he in if you if he wants to submit email I'll bring one if he wants to come on Let me pull up my deal too Uh young don if you want to come on. I don't know if I don't I don't see you But if you are there if you want to come on just just uh, send me an email and I'll I'll bring you on so Getting back to this He's saying that I want you to be my disciples to follow me Do y'all know what do you all know what jesus Says a christian is Do you all know Remember jesus describes what a christian is In john 10 He says that christians that sheep Are going to do what? Follow him as a matter of fact. Let me read some passages John 10 27 says my sheep hear my voice. I know them and they what they follow me John 12 he says that anyone if anyone serves me he must follow me and where I am There my service will be also if anyone serves me the father will honor him So we will have to follow him Now we don't follow him to get saved Once we're saved we follow him We walk in him We do these things jesus describes what a true sheep looks like a true sheep true sheep Or as we say here sheep assist we keep believing we don't stop believing We don't stop believing we keep believing matter of fact. Let me pull this up. I don't know why I gotta fix this real quick All right Where's it at? All right. I'm sorry. I'm doing I'm doing a couple things at once Wow, that's bright. That is a bright light okay, so We're told what sheep do sheep believe Jesus all matter of fact, can I I guess it would help if I just go ahead and put the put the verse on the screen Uh, let's go to John 10. Well dawg my young don you can't respond to the video if you're not Okay so John 10 Why is my thing? Oh Oh, I see what I did I'm trying to type Now my there it is Okay, he says Verse two I'm sorry verse three To him the doorkeeper opens the sheep Hear his voice and he calls his sheep by name and leaves him out When he puts forth his own he goes ahead of them and the sheep follow him Because they know his voice a stranger. They simply will not follow him But will flee him from him because they do not know the voice of the stranger So what does he just tell us? He tells us what sheep are gonna do Sheep are gonna follow Sheep follow sheep here and sheep follow sheep here and sheep follow they keep doing that Now what we cannot do What we cannot do and then people bring up John 15 And we're told according to John 15 that that is if people bring this passage up to say that we have to abide I agree Christians have to abide you can't say you are and then don't abide You can't say you you you do and then don't endure But Jesus makes it clear in John 15 I think he's speaking not just to the disciples but to us as well That he has appointed or caused it ordained it for us to abide and to bear fruit So the Holy Spirit being in us is going to cause us to walk. Remember we we've just read Ezekiel 36 the same thing in in Jeremiah 29 That the Holy Spirit in us is going to cause us to do these things And so here's the point if the Holy Spirit in a true believer is going to according to God In Ezekiel and Jeremiah according to Jesus if the Holy Spirit doesn't I mean if the Holy Spirit is in us, he is going to do just what God says is going to happen He's going to cause us to move Jesus makes a statement this way And there's two words that we use for works Because it's got to the point to where works is a dirty word. It's not a dirty word. It's literally in the bible Now if you're working for salvation, that's different and I want you guys to hear me again Do not do not do I'm going to be so disappointed in you guys if you are saying that Cory is saying you got to be You got to work to get I'm I'm not teaching the workspace. I'm saying guys. I'm saying Once you're saved you will work Is there is there any importance to us doing something having some works? We're going to look at that First of all Wait a minute Okay Young dime brother if you want if you want to come on come on. Uh, you can just send me your deal Like I'll go ahead and pull you up um first of all Jesus makes a statement And there's a reason for it guys There's a reason for it. He says You are the light of the world a city on a hill cannot be hidden nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under basket But on the lamp stand and it gives off light to the whole world. Look what he says verse 16 Let your light shine before men in such a way In such a way That they may see now here's where's ha pos idosin that they may see Humane ta cala erga the the good works of yours so that they may see the good works and do what glorify God so Why we are here is because we are going to be the ones that are going to give light to the world We want to show people that this life in christ Changes us everything no no matter fact The six or seven folks don't hear right now Half of you are gonna sin before we get off this broadcast We all do if anyone says he does not sin. He's a liar So we all do sin and we don't want to get in the habit of Comparing fruit checking fruit when we don't do that because oftentimes oh and now this is the other side The reason why you have some pushback with people who are saying that you need to show some works and that's too much You don't have to show anything You don't have to show them anything as a matter of fact If we get in the habit of judging works We're gonna mess up. You know why because How many of us if we saw peter on the day that he denied verbally? Publicly denied jesus. How many of us would have said he ain't say Jesus ain't say i mean peter ain't say peter ain't say But we know that's not the case If we're judged on our worst day Corey ain't say look at corey Look cool k.l.a. Tyra ain't safe. No Lord knows lord knows proverbs 17 ain't say look at look at proverbs 17. That's it, right Okay, okay cool, and I don't know if you heard what I said earlier um The very first thing I said listen if if half of not have had if all the youth in america had this broke this young brother's passion We'd be better off unfortunately don't unfortunately don't and so You Are going to get smarter wiser better just like I hope hope like it's smarter wiser better We all do the best thing that young don has over me or any or any other folks These old folks in the still is that he's younger The average age of my of the people here are between 45 and 55 and then up matter of fact 55 is the average And then up and then 45s and on down. So we got some older folk here and so Yeah, right peter repented peter repented jesus said before he did he says you are going to deny me he said but when you come back Why is he going to come back? Well because something's happened to peter His heart's been changed has it not His heart has been changed and because the holy spirit is in you That's what you listen Two things the holy spirit wants to do To brian, I said where my 20s at uh in school. They just now get out of school Two things the holy spirit wants to do in you To testify of christ The holy spirit wants to magnify christ And he wants to work in you How do I know? Well, uh, let's go to this passage He says for grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourself It is to give to god not as a result of works. There it is guys. We are not saved as a result There's that word again ergon. It's not a result of works we are so Let me let me drink my my coffee Carter young don send me an email To a smart christian channel at gmail and I will send you the link and then you'll you'll file the prompt and just have your camera on everything Oh, wait a second. Okay. Hold this young down. Hold on. Let me just Hello What's going on young brother? No, what you have to do is just I would send you the link and I would um, you just click on it You come in through ecam and as long as your camera and microphone's on and just come on in. Um Well, yeah, text it to me. Text it to me. I'll go ahead and do that Yeah, yeah, or you know what it's easier if you just even email email me and then I'll Yeah smart christian channel smart christian channel at g Smart christian channel at gmail All right. Okay Okay, all right Matter of fact another brother who who don't go on this thing is so bright. I'm gonna fix this thing another brother who uh brother mccray Love loved you too. Um Yeah, I agree. I agree No, no, no, listen. I listen if I love brother I love I want to push I push the button. I would love the I would love to bring you on as well The thing is this I What happens is we think that someone is saying something or leaning somewhere now so far by the way guys put a w up Put a w up Signify that I'm wrong and tell me where I'm wrong so far Because all I've said so far is that one god has a problem with sin And he wants to fix the problem of sin in our lives And he wants to show everyone that we can that we are also Overcomers of this sin I'm not saying telling people that listen. You ain't doing this. You're not doing that. You're not doing that You're not doing that. So you ain't say no, I'm not saying that at all. I am not saying that at all because truth be told There's a lot of stuff that I'm not doing There's a lot that I'm not doing but thanks be to god that his that his grace has saved me and just like he says that That uh verse eight He says that so I mean sorry not as works air gone And then he says henna made tea so in order that someone made both He says now here it is for we are his workmanship created in christ jesus for good works Created in christ is for good works, which he prepared beforehand. Here's the question guys. What did he prepare beforehand? these works The lord prepared these works beforehand For us to do now Okay, here he is. Let me go ahead and click this real quick. So the works that that we've we've been prepared talk on it The works that were prepared beforehand For us to do don't make us save All right, here it is. I'm sending right now The works that we have been prepared to do don't make us save Guys the works that we have been given to do Help others to get saved they can see our light as jesus says let our lights so shine That we would then or others would see our good works and glorify them What are they going to see our works? Okay, they are going to sit me up and put on the right one so I can pull them on They are going to see our good works Us saying this Might mean something But to the world no Jesus says they will see these good works and they will then glory by the way Let me pull this passage up There's a passage I used to run to that would always tell me that yeah, see christians can lose their salvation And when I go to this passage It's not saying that christians can lose their salvation. You know what it's saying james 519 My brother if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back Let him know that he who turns him back Saves him and saves his soul from death. What was that mean? Hey, how's it going cori? Can you hear me? Yes, sir? Yes, sir Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. Let me go ahead and uh, do not not not you uh, uh, brother mccray. Do me a favor. Um I'm gonna I'm gonna get your your your information Um, and then we'll we'll we'll hook up Oh, you don't you don't want to talk live right now. No, no, no, no, no. I was talking to someone else. I was talking to someone else No, I don't talk to you. I'm sorry No, I was talking I was talking to uh, john mccray from what do you mean? Oh, yes. Yeah, john. That's my boy right there Here here was funny. Here's what's funny I don't think that I think if if all of us would go out somewhere First of all, you get carted because you you know, you're young, but of all All of us would go somewhere we would get along And I think if we set and listen to what we're saying and how we live like, oh, okay We agree what has happened In this social media world in this youtube world facebook and whatever other social media out there is that people will say They're in that camp Or they're in that camp and what ends up happening is we start giving these labels of folks Oh, he's one of them and so I know what he's gonna believe and so What I've stated so far is that and I don't know if you heard it. So let me say it again with you um, is that So, so yeah All I saw was, you know the thumbnail the title I saw a little snippet Here and there it sounded like, you know, you um You were being you you you were had more you had more criticisms for me than you did for alan And so I had just started to react to the video when my chat told me You're live right now and I should try and connect with you. So so here we are So I haven't actually gotten a chance to hear your position on anything So do me a favor slide slide over a little a little bit This uh this way. Yeah Here's what here's here's what I've said um One In your belief you're not wrong Two in what alvin's alvin alan said he's not wrong alan's not saying you've got to do this to be safe He's saying is what I believe I think is what he's saying precious what he's saying that when you are safe The spirit is in you You're not just going to sit there and we've gone over some people some famous people who who said they believe The question is what do you mean? God or bible by belief and we've covered this Few times on this channel The word believe typically it's the present active part of simple present active tense that signifies that we are Believing the bible knows of no christian who's not constantly or in a state of continual belief And because of that we have the holy spirit that's going to be with us until we reach our ultimate destination, which is heaven Because of that we are going to move the way the holy spirit wants to as much as we yield not always Sometimes we're going to mess up. Sometimes I might I might go off on somebody. Sometimes I might not pray I don't want to read I want this but I'm something's going to happen now Can I see and judge your works and say yeah, he ain't safe not all wait now sometimes I can Sometimes we can right the person who is who says I believe But also believes in Allah and Muhammad who also believes in confucius and so okay Well, wait a second wait now we can see and understand right That's not the same kind of belief that you and I have right the belief that we have is that Jesus christ died on the cross for us and faith in that alone brings about salvation now Just like their sins were atoned for in the old testament under the law All they needed was faith In that atoning work of the of what god did right the same thing now Faith in the lord's atoning work on the cross is what saves The problem under the old Covenant versus now is they didn't have the holy spirit And so god's remedy For their way with heart because again, this is the same god Who does not like sin he abhorcing the reason why we're not in the garden of days because of sin So what was his remedy to give us the holy spirit? And he says in in his eco 36 as well as Jeremiah 29 that Us having the holy spirit would cause us to walk and to work and to do Perfectly no No, even paul says the things I want to do I don't do the things I want to stop doing I keep doing Thankfully, I've got this holy spirit and this only thing the only redeeming quality I have is a holy spirit And so I think what happens is sometimes we we say, okay um If someone mentions works Sometimes our antenna pops up and you know what? Oh, that's workspace and and allen Does not in any way believe in workspace salvation At least that his teachings say not are you with me? And so that's the that's the issue I would disagree. Um, right. I would disagree. All right So I would ask you then. Okay. What to you? What do what do you think it means? What does roman's chapter four verse five mean for you? What does that mean to you? Let's pull it up Yeah, roman's chapter four verse five. What does that mean? Um type and put on screen roman's four But to the one Who does not work but believes in him Who justified the ungodly his faith is credit his righteousness? Amen Again, just what just what james says is it's the it's not the work that saves you And so I'm not saying it nor is nor is I don't think what I know he says because we talked about it allen's not saying it's our work that justifies and remember paul Has a couple of audiences in mind here one. He's speaking to um Gentiles But he's comparing it to what's happened with jews with his countrymen And he even switches in in roman's 9 10 11 to speak specifically about them that he wished that they would be Like these Gentiles placing their faith, but their righteousness is based off of works. Yeah, that ain't gonna get it That's paul's point here in roman's four your righteousness according to works ain't gonna do which is why jesus said earlier Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees you will no way in in the kingdom of heaven So if your righteousness is based off of what you do At you're doing which is why he says in Galatians 3 um, I'm sorry in Galatians that Or five anyone who seeks to be justified by their work or by keeping the law any of those things You're dead. You cut off already It's the faith of it. But then the faith Is going to if you live long enough If you live long enough it is going to move you now Everybody this is why this is why the the justin martyrs of the world the polycarps of the world The the early church fathers is specifically the ones who follow let's say john They believe not that you were saved by works, but that after being saved. We're going to judge you by your works Now we don't have the ability to judge you eternally We can call sin sin, right and we're not the ones going to determine if you go to hell as a result of it Only god can do that which is why we don't separate the week to tear Because sometimes the tear looks like the week the week looks like the tear But here he's clearly saying I don't mean to monopolize the time But he's clearly saying What you agree that is Works don't justify its only faith Right, so Okay, okay One I disagree completely about your uh, your analysis of alan par alan par clearly is at the very least a four-point calvinist um, he definitely adds works to the equation because Uh, I mean if you just look at the title of his video, he says that many christians Right, so he's not even accusing people who um You know this this hypothetical person that we draw that believes on christ But then you don't see any changed life Which I don't even think that is a requirement to be saved because jesus tells us that the moment you believe You are saved you have the holy spirit and then when we turn to Ephesians, uh, or is it Yeah, when we turn to Ephesians chapter four, uh verse Let's see we turn to Ephesians chapter four verse It would be verse 30 it says in grieve not the holy spirit of god whereby ye are sealed until the day of redemption And so if you receive the holy spirit the day that you believe Then you cannot lose Your salvation it doesn't matter it how often you go to church It doesn't matter how often you read the bible things which alan implied in his video, right? Oh, well, some aren't reading your bible enough. Oh, so so so again It's not even you said, you know, you're going to see the lord move you well apparently according to alan There is a criteria. It's not enough to read your bible once a week or five minutes a day or 10 minutes a day Right, you got to be reading your bible. There's apparently a certain amount And so my question is okay How many works does it take to be safe? How many works does it take to know that you're a christian? Uh, here here. We don't know the bible didn't spell it out. All we do know is this and what alan's saying is this We do know it says no works, right? Okay, there's no works is necessary to be saved so What do when we I should have moved that let's let me go back to james too I want to point something out I want to point something out when he says in 214 Uh, what uses brother says if someone says he has faith But he has no works can that faith save him now this word for that faith is hey peace days Which is which is why isn't in the um, the different articles there is to describe a particular type of faith So that faith that has nothing matter of fact, let me put up another passage I want to go to first I will I will like to push back because uh, what version of the bible that because I you know That that's reads a little differently than my king james bible. Would you like me to read the greek? Um, I I I don't read greek. I don't I don't read greek. I read english You know i'm saying so I like is it king james bible not a good bible The king james vise is a is a wonderful bible just like the nasb esv Uh, the those those versions Um, this is why I I mentioned earlier I would love to just you know, maybe even offline have a conversation Because this The king james version only I I really I I'm not a prophet But I believe I believe you're going to probably move away from that later on Uh, because if we just start expect inspecting the scriptures the greek and the hebu texts And just give it to us the because the point of the bible is not to give it to in a particular style The goal is to give us the message The goal is to give us what does say at the lord, right? And if it says it because what the king james version doesn't account for is that the fact that the english changed I ask you right now if I say that's cool. What do I mean or it's cool? Well, that may mean temperature. It may mean something's okay Language is change the king james version is it says what an wonderful version. I have no problem with it But we just don't speak that way and sometimes like we say the word who so ever like in john 3 16 Well, that word who so ever is not there It meant what it meant at that time and it was clarified It was easily understood then because that's the way they spoke and understood it Whosoever is is simple, right? Whosoever anybody, right? But that that's my point the whosoever in the um in john In the king james version implies that anybody he's not speaking of anybody in john 3 16 There's specific people that he's speaking of he says the hot piss duone And so that's the that's my point How do you how do you how do you know that because here's the thing right by the greek? No, but here's what i'm saying 47 Greek scholars right these were these were men who could run laps around the average man intellectually Um, we're right everybody. This is my and this is my problem with this criticism of the king james bible 47 greek scholars Assembled into it was either six or seven different teams over the course of seven years Many of which were fluent in multiple ancient languages came together and Translated this bible compared notes found discrepancies corrected discrepancies. Who are we? To be you know one person With the access to the internet and we and we're finding you know One resource and then saying we can override the the the work that was clearly led by the holy spirit God has promised to preserve his word and for uh over 300 years the king james bible was the only English bible in completion that was accessible to the public And so I would have to say that is god preserving his word. It is the most popular book imprint Right. Um, most popular original bible imprint. Why would god allow a flawed? A version of his word to become so prolific and to be the only source for hundreds of years Well, because here's what's happened now First of all the king james version wasn't the first english version the second third or fourth I said it was I said that it was the first publicly available bible that for old and new Just according to the history. No, no, no. I'm saying. Why was it that why was it the most publicly accessible? I mean, it was the first one that was allowed to be Put into print and sold to the public at an affordable price. But why? Why why do why why is that you have an answer you got you got to remember We've got an actual government behind it not not say that the king james version bible There's nothing wrong with the king james version. Is it perfect? No Just look at roman roman revelation 2219 where the king james version has has the word Book of life where it's clearly the tree of life. Is it i'm not saying it's a huge difference I'm not saying it is or isn't i'm just saying that that particular word Is not found in the king james i mean in found it in the greek now more to the point the king james version Uh, I again, this is why I have no problem with the king james version. I could if you want me to put up You should should if you're saying that errors in the king james you should have a problem with it well The king again if you go to king to the king james version chapter 20 chapter 22 i mean revelations chapter 22 verse 19 Your version is going to say Uh, the tree i mean the book of life The word is not is not there the reason why is because they didn't he didn't have the they didn't have the complete manuscript the complete manuscript of Excuse me of revelation now what we did have at the time of the king james version Wait, i'm trying to you said it was revelation. What 22 19 okay now The manuscripts that were used i don't want to get off of this but the manuscripts that that were used Uh are from the 12th century six manuscripts from the 12th century on And we're not even sure that if that the 12th century manuscript was actually the 12th century Since then we found 10 thousands more manuscripts And they go back a thousand years prior If those same people who by the way that same committee said that there's still much work to be done on the translation They said so themselves in their annotations and notes and so forth. So they even said that this isn't perfect There's much work to be done If they had had access to the thousands and thousands of manuscripts that we have today Going back to going back to the uh Okay, i'm sorry. I'm sorry going back to the The um second century I'm sending it right now john See, uh, but here's my problem with this right my problem with this is we're not trusting god Right, we are no because how do we not know that there's some other manuscripts? Right sitting in some vase waiting for some other kid to find it in a cave That's now going to be older than the ones that we found that say something different Well, wait a second there with well two things one Where you just say it we trust god to preserve his word, right? Right So why are we saying that these manuscripts that we found that we know that were in existence before? Why didn't why don't we trust those? Because they're different from the ones that we already had they're not they're not no they're not they're not any more that different They're not even all that different But they are they This in verses right is it do you think it's a coincidence? Do you think it's a coincidence that many of the verses? um, most of the verses in fact that uh are supposedly You know added to the texas receptas that are not found in these others Supposedly older manuscripts. You don't think it's a do you think it's a coincidence that they all Most of them are talking about you know downplaying the deity of christ um, you know Okay, so for instance, right uh when the eunuch asked the um asked philip how you know What must I do to be baptized or what must I do to be baptized? And philip says you have to believe on the lord Jesus christ and he says well I believe with my you know, I believe that jesus christ son of god and then he says okay, and then they stopped the cart to go get baptized That's not in the esv. That's not in the niv right? They just say all you got to do is jump into water Right, what do you say this because I don't I don't want to I don't want to go too far off here but If I was trying to translate because I don't I don't know anything about the people that were that were that were on this Work to translate the scriptures. Okay. I do know we know about the folks that translate the scriptures Prior to the king james version. We even know about the people who died as a result of it If I was to go back and look at the scriptures today to do my due diligence and I ignore 50 000 40 30 how many thousand measures we have if I if I ignored those and the ones that go back Thousand years prior. I think I personally would be dare look at my duty But now I don't I don't want to go there right now because that'll be another hour-long conversation But on this I want to read something in regards to to to us as believers And I think I think john mccray is going to going to come on Make sure Yeah, I think I did send it off I think I did okay. Yeah, I did. Okay. So let me read this passage real quick First john three four. Let me know if you can see this Matter of fact, I'll tell you what I'll do dog on it dog gonna tell you what I'm gonna do I'm gonna go ahead and put in the king james version for you. How about that? Yes All right, hold on one second. Let me go back to the screen and bring and bring on john Hey, brother, how you doing? Hey Hey What's up guys? How you guys doing doing pretty good. Let me let me go ahead and read this passage real quick I can see both of you Huh, is there a way that will allow me to see both of you? You should be able to see both of us Okay, because I still just see you hold on Um, all right, but yeah, yeah, I keep going. I guess I'll figure it out So whosoever verse verse four first john chapter three whosoever commits sin Transgressed also the law for sin is the transgression of the law and he know that he was manifested to take away our sins Which was I said before that's a problem. We have is our sin um And in him is no sin Whoever abided in him sins not the person who is in christ sins not Whosoever this word is whosoever Again, there's a word that's not there is pos in the greek But whoever the ones that's not sinning or whoever sent it the one that's sinning have not seen him Neither known him little children let no man deceive you that uh, he that doeth righteousness Is righteous let me say it again He that doeth righteousness Is righteous so that one that and the and the word is poyong So the one is working or doing righteousness is righteous even as he is righteous He that committed sin is of the devil for the devil sinneth from the beginning for this purpose The son of god was manifested that he might destroy the works of the devil Whoever whosoever is born of god Doth not commit sin or practice sin for his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin No, no, so no, all right. It says does not commit sin It's a sin not commit sin So that would mean that if we're going by the way that it seems that you would be interpreting this The moment you sin that is evidence Uh, are we good? Yeah, yeah The moment you sin that is ever get evidence that you are not of god Well, no if we if we look if we look at the greek if we look at this we see So we can't there's like at this point, you know, i'm saying it's like Now you tell me I can't trust the bible No, no, I just I just read it though I said whoever is born of god doth not commit sin And if we go to the greek if we go to the greek and put on the screen again He says pass high giga nemas giga nemenas egg to fail Herma tion. Herma tion Upoy a this upoy a not doing this this doing is the practicing So the person that is practicing sin or doing the sin That person Is not of god No, here's who is a god To sin though everybody sins and were thought indeed every day nobody There's a differentiation between the person that sins and the one that practices sin No, there's a thing but who is to make up that that distinction, right? None of us he does You say well, who you say so you're telling me that sins you have been saved you have never intentionally sin Sure, I have that's not what i'm saying. No, I said practices it in other words Many times you got to do some to for it to be a practice But but but but don you miss him you miss the point. No one's saying that you don't sin No, but here's what i'm saying you're saying practice. I'm saying how many times you got to sin for it to be practice I don't I don't make that that's god's rule. I don't know So because that's what he's saying, right? If you look at roman's chapter 4 verse 6 Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let's stick with this. What does he mean there? No, so what he means is that when you are washing the blood of christ You get the righteousness of god imputed onto you and so all of your sins are blotted out once your sins to blot out Means to be made inconsequential And so you cannot sin as a christian because you've been made a new creature that has been freed from the curse of the law Right that you're not under the law the the law now becomes a school master That shows us how we we can live a blessed life and a life that is conducive to doing good works onto god but that is how we Technically do not sin because anybody who wants to imply that they do not sin and also Since when do we serve a god that cares about you know How we feel about things right he cares what we believe and what we do what we don't believe on what we don't do So just because You sin and you chalk it up to yeah, but I feel bad about that Look, it don't matter if two men commit murder and one is in front of the judge And he's incredibly sorrowful and one man is callous about the the act They're both getting life in prison right the crime is the crime the time is the time And so so the the way we get righteousness is not by practicing righteousness The bible tells us that our works right our righteousness is our like filthy rags The way that we because even in our righteousness a man will in a moment be like oh wow I went this week and you know, I didn't do that, you know, I was such a good christian I read my bible, you know an hour a day every day for a week. Well, he was just that's just pride right there He's practicing pride. So even Well, even if he attempts to do righteousness He filthy he dirties it up with his sinful nature And so the only way we receive righteousness is told to us in um our roman's chapter four Verse six right if we turn to roman's chapter four verse six It tells us how you know that we receive righteousness Right and it says even as david also described as the blessedness of the man onto whom god imputed as righteousness without works Right and that's old testament. So it's not even this idea that the law played a role in you know, um You know getting us right with the lord in the old testament is also false, right? That's that's that's dispensationalism you know, um Nonsense in my opinion the people who came up with dispensationalism if you look into that their history, right? We're talking about you know, the lifestyle of christians Well, if you want to evaluate the lifestyle of christians You should look into the history of the man that came up with dispensationalism And you know, like who wrote the man who wrote the school field bible I believe that man was divorced three times, right? Um, right abandoned his family Um, you talk if you want to talk about a wretched man a wicked man I won't let john get in here But if I read if I read a quote from one of john's disciples, this is john who wrote the apostle john um We would find out that he's the very first person in the history of mankind to speak about Dispensation and dispensationalism. So it's not from school field or darby. This is this is thousands used before But john john, let me go ahead and get you in here. What what what do you take? What's your take on this? You know, that's that's good. Thanks for you guys having me on here too. And it's uh, there's a lot kind of that just went through But I guess my kind of thing is thinking about this is like so when we think about I I guess I hear a lot of Calvinistic interpretations and I understand we can talk about like some of the greek and stuff like that Especially that first john passage But um, that the kind of assumption there is like I guess when we think back to how are we saving in the first place Right, and I think we all are on the same page with the fact that we're saved completely by By grace through faith and it's his righteousness that's imputed onto us in order to give us salvation, correct? So we're on that same page, right? Yeah Okay, okay. So now if we have his imputed righteousness I mean, this is just a practical question and we can start getting into the verses But the practical question if we're saved by his righteousness Obviously our righteousness does not play a role in our salvation, right? So so I think we all agree about we're all once saved Always saved, right? All of us. Yep. Okay. Okay, and out of curiosity just to be clear Would you identify as a five point Calvinist? Just so I have kind of an idea where you're coming? No, I'm not I'm not a Calvinist. I guess if You're not a Calvinist, okay, a two and a half point three point whatever. I'm so no I there are some beliefs that they have I agree with but no, I'm not a Calvinist Okay, and do you believe in free will I do I believe I believe well, and I don't like to use the word free will because libertarian free will I believe that we have the ability to choose. I also believe that God has ability to choose And so there are some things that because we are saved the Holy Spirit is in us I believe he causes us to do some things not everything And if we're not saved then we then we've got something else that's also Kind of working in us, which is that of the enemy, but do I believe that we have the ability to choose? I do that's why one of the reasons why I don't believe in I'm not a Calvinist because I believe that we have Mankind has the ability to choose to be saved now. I don't believe that mankind will but we have the ability we just don't Can we choose to sin or not to sin? Sure Okay, okay, so so we can choose not so we can choose to stifle the spirit, right? So we can choose if the spirit prompts us to behave in a holy way. We can choose to stifle that, right? Mm-hmm Sure, so if we can do that then then how then then how could you hold a position where it would be that you have to? necessarily produce good works after you receive salvation Because if we have the ability to stifle the spirit and to say no to the spirit at all Then we have this the ability not to necessarily produce good works as a result of salvation Here's my question then here's my question. Do do you do you produce any good works? I Think everybody in the world produces good. Okay, but everybody in the world But but do you ever produce any any any works that come as a result of the Holy Spirit being in you? Yeah, absolutely sure. Okay, and I yes, but but okay But can you ask my question just so that way I just make sure because I'm just trying to make sure I gaze your view So I have the right say it again Say it again So the question was so if we have the ability to stifle the spirit and not respond to the spirit that prompts us to Do good works? If we have free will In that sense, then we have the ability to Then if that's possible, then we can't say that works necessarily follow from salvation because it's still our choice If you want to produce good works or not, correct. Oh correct. Now. I'm not saying that we have to do works I'm not saying that. Okay. I'm saying that the spirit in us will save us And the re and where I get that from is because God says that when he puts his spirit in us He will cause us to to do these things and so now we don't measure them I didn't I didn't read my bible today. I didn't pray. I didn't I didn't help this little lady I'm not saying that because we get into the habit of trying to count fruit ours and others Well, then that's when we get ourselves kind of in shipwreck, but Those it was funny everyone that believes Um in faith alone and you should if I ask them Do you ever do any good works prompted in you by the Holy Spirit? They'll say yes if I ask are you a disciple? They'll say yes And so the issue is why I think the issue comes in is that you think that one group is saying we must do works I'm not saying I don't think I don't is I'm not saying you must do works I'm saying the longer you live The Holy Spirit is going to do something in you. It's going to cause you here's here's what I mean And this this is my analogy. I have salvation and and the people in the chats. I've heard me say this before salvation is this I believe My back is hurting my legs are hurting. I need to sit down This chair is going to sustain my weight I can trust in this chair. How do I know I trust it by sitting down and now I don't just sit in the chair What I do is Because this is how I know I don't have faith in the chair if I sit in the chair and brace myself Grab hold to the desk Give a good wide base and make sure it just in case this chair falls I'm gonna be that that to me is kind of a works-based trustee I'm gonna pull down some wire and bolt it to the chair to make sure the chair doesn't fall No, I've got complete faith and confidence in this chair And so you know what I'm allowed to do because of that do my works because The Lord is I placed my faith in him. I'm saved After that I'm going to do something the longer I live something the spirit is going to work in me to do something That somebody's going to see this good work And cause me to Glory, I mean cause other people to glorify him by seeing what I'm doing. I I've been saved according to the bible Yeah, I was saying I think that's both subjective and it's an assumption right it's subjective and it's an assumption because um one that somebody's going to Because of x amount of time someone will start Living their lives in a way that you can now visibly You know determine. Oh, there's the evidence that you know, he has the holy spirit You know Who is to say right if that man right even does so much as you know shoots off a quiet prayer at night That's not something you're going to be able to see and maybe he never grows past that because the bible says faith Come is by hearing and hearing by the word of god And so if this man is not, you know Attendant church not reading his bible. He cannot mature spiritually. And so, you know, who's to say that, you know Someone's saved and then they live. No, but here's the thing So are you saying that there aren't people get saved and then you don't see any, you know Visible change in them for 10 years. That's that's the point. That's the point. It's not up to me No, but what what did god say doesn't happen? Did my question Because wait wait because this is Did not god say Didn't it was god who said so god said that he'll put his spirit in us And then cause us to walk in his teachings, right? What does that mean? Right, but he doesn't force us to walk in his teachings. Well, right He doesn't for here's where that that question comes in though because we I want to make sure sorry my bad. I just want to make sure because I think this is where my question I think was relevant because who's the one that's doing the good works. Are we doing the good works is or is this some sort of I guess or are we doing them Co co with god like the synergies on my guess not talking about salvation But in terms of works or is god doing the works. Are we doing the works? Are we both doing the works on your view because i'm curious how Oh, I believe he's working in us if it's in the good the good that I do, ain't me If I if if I do the slightest bit of good It's god. It's it's a spirit in me Because after the spirit, you know what I'm gonna do whatever I want to matter of fact I might cut you out. I might go. I might you know what I might have some some some some chicks on the side after the spirit Who knows but god says because All right, so what does it take? What does it if wait? This is a contradiction because if it's not your belief unless there works What the works are caused solely by god then if someone doesn't produce these Evidential works that support your belief then it's god's fault. No. No. No. No. You're missing it. You're missing to say what i'm saying Okay, you're saying it makes you do the good works, right? And so it's the good works You said it's god that makes you do the good works what the good works are evidence that you believe Well, then if no one is producing the good works to prove that they believe then it's god's fault No, okay. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen somebody Let's just take bob bob Might do something or might not do something if bob is a believer The holy spirit is in him two things the holy spirit according to scripture wants him to do two things one testify of christ right two Wants us to magnify him in a way and and not to sin now. Are we going to sin? Sure, are we going to live in it? No, we're not God says because the problem that guy has always had with mankind the reason why we're not in the No, no, no, no, we will sin but we don't practice it though the the word that I said Contradiction man, that's like that's like um, it that's like saying, yeah, you know, I will I will commit crimes But I don't practice crime. That's what you're saying. No, because Rob the store I'll I'll you know, I'll steal this I'll hurt this guy, but I don't practice crime But I'll do crime from the time I'll do crime every day The word is this but don the word is this the word is this harm my tion Puy a that is literally means the one who's practicing sin I can go out and play basketball. I don't have a lifestyle of being a basketball player, right? I can go out and work out. But there's there's some guys that that's what they do And so what we do we live for him we live in him God literally says How many times to do it before it's practice? That's the that's that's the confusion. You're saying There is not a counter Then we don't serve a God of confusion If there was a certain number that we needed to watch out for Because then we would be in danger of stepping into practice as opposed to I guess just doing it I don't know what what the alternative to okay, let me ask you a question. Let me let me ask Let me ask I want to ask John and I want to ask John and Donna question I didn't realize that John and let me just say one real quick thing real quick thing about that passage because I think the thing is too is we're confusing things here because really what that passage is talking about Is those just how those who are born of christ don't sin, right? We read that first shown I think it's first shown Uh, is it first shown three was a fire account first John three But anyways, um, but if we but yeah, so if we go to um one eight though Remember here. We know that we do sin, right? So what is referring to really is that if we're saved Or if we're saved because of his imputed righteousness, we don't sin according to our spirit, right? We still sin in the flesh. We don't sin according to the spirit So even we can even leave a lot of this aside when it comes to like the greek when it comes to the practicing Of sin because even then I think don's point you still hold this would be a bad advice If we weren't able to know what it meant to make a practice of sin because like when people say habitual sin How much sin is habitual once every week once every year once every two years all of this can be quantified as habitual and even worse Then we could actually just switch up and say okay. Well, I'm not gonna You know do these same sorts of sins all the time I'll just do these different types of sin and then I'm good and then it's just like this subjective road We can't define it. This is why the catholics I think do a better job than Protestants here because at least the catholics will say these are the venal sins These are the mortal sins So we know what sins to expect but when we have this fuzzy thing in the Protestant view Where it's just like well, it just has to be some good works. How many good works? I don't know You know what I mean? What kinds of good works? I don't know Good works that can look it could look good on the surface But maybe a guy's trying to give a kid candy to kidnap the kid or something like that, right? There's all of these problems just logically I'd like to get into the scripture though too when we can get into verses but but anyways So I'd say that we can probably just move past this point in my opinion Unless you guys really want to stay on this point. I want to ask you guys a question I want to ask you guys a question that they're telling to slow this down a little bit. Here's my question Does god first we all we all would agree that obviously god hates sin He he has said he's going to do something about sin his statement in regards to doing something about sin is that he is going to One not let that be the issue that he sees with us. We are atoned by our faith But he literally says in zika 36 that he's going to cause us to walk in his teachings And then we know that the holy spirit in us The result the karpos the result of the holy spirit in us According to galatians 5 are some actual things that we do now. We don't measure them We don't say well, I've done this this I've done that or he or I didn't do this No, we don't that that part is subjective It's up to god the reason why is because only us or me and god can actually identify Paul says let every man examine himself We're not we don't have all these warning passages throughout scriptures to say well Ed didn't matter. No, it matters. Okay, because the way we identify the way we can know Because how the person who says that for example, let me ask you a question. Do you all would you all agree? Let me just just real quick Go ahead. I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah, I was just going to respond to what you were saying just real quick So so right there where your relations five by the way, those are internal, right? This is the fruit of this is where he's contrasting the works of the flesh with the fruit of spirit And these are internal things for one, right? So So god is working these things we're going to be able to see anyway, and I think that you're you're um They were on the same page there And now I just lost my train of thought. I was gonna let me ask you this let me ask you both this So do you do you think do you think marcus rogers is saying? No, no, I okay marcus rogers says he believes preaches from the bible Sure. Yeah, but he trusted his works. Yeah He preaches. Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So so but he says he believes Matter of fact, okay. What about someone? What about what he believes and he doesn't believe the gospel? He believes his own made-up gospel like alan par Okay, so so do you believe alan par is not safe? No, well So here's what we're talking about though. So we're talking about the reef We're talking about the object of the leaf, right? All right. I believe he hasn't made mind, right? He has heard the true god. You're not a pastor I've only been studying the bible in this right for what now seven months You're not a pastor for I would imagine close to a decade and now I have had someone explain the gospel clearly to you And you know, I'm saying so he has received the gospel rejected the gospel in favor for a gospel like halvin It's gospel that relies upon works. So this is not this is it's one thing to hear the gospel And then over time see this is what I think happens, right? You get saved, right? And I think I would believe you're saved but by what you're saying But this is what I I think has happened to you you get the gospel you believe on christ You enter into christian culture christian community. This is exactly what happened to billy graham, right? And now you're surrounded by people where you know now you're you're you're no longer in the world You're around other christians, right the standards of morality rises and then we you also get You know, they're fairs Pharisees that come in through and and mix up with people have the true gospel And then they start trying to you know Make it more about the the changed life and the importance of living the changed life Then it is about actually just trusting the finished work of christ on the cross and then you get all mixed up And so now you're kind of in this halfway limbo zone of well Yes, it's just christ blood that that justifies and sanctifies about the same time You're supposed to have evidence, but I can't tell you what that evidence is supposed to look like or how much it's supposed to be It's it's it's this confused thing that can't help anybody saved. How do you know you're saved then don? Okay Let me just get so i'm saved because I believe the gospel of jesus christ Oh John's going got 15 minutes. Let me let me finish up listen john and i'll come back to you down Yeah, my bad. I'm not trying to cut you guys off. You're fine. You're fine. Um, I just want to try to Give her quick. Okay. So um real quick when it comes to Marcus rogers if you look at his works You know what I mean then you can say okay, he saved these planting churches He's talking about christianity all the time blah blah blah if that was the criteria to know that somebody saved Right, but really the criteria comes down to what do you believe and so now when you ask the question of how do you know? You're saved the bible never tells us to look to ourselves to see if we're saved With the the possible verse when people say in second Corinthians 13 5 They use that verse to say that this is Paul saying even though Paul's talking rhetorically I believe in context but people say oh, okay, Paul says examine yourselves to see if you're under faith That means that we should be looking at our works now first It never says works in that passage and even then we don't base an entire theology based on one verse There's no other verse in the bible that tells you to look to yourself to see that you're saved Instead we look to the promises of christ the promises of god all the way out the whole testament new testament That's how we know that we're saved because his faithfulness not our faithfulness, right? So we don't know that we're saved by looking at ourselves and our works in any way And this is what I think is an unfortunate consequence of the Calvinist theology because I think a lot of these people like Wayne Grudum's I've read like a lot of his systematic theology book and stuff It's a lot of Calvinist theology being interpreted because it makes sense on Calvinism If you're a five-point Calvinist this position makes sense because we don't have free wills So therefore if you're saved god is going to make you produce good works But on a not any non-Calvinistic view it does not make sense This is what I think Protestants are hopelessly confused when it comes to works because they're trying to use Calvinistic interpretations In order to understand their own theology And I think that that's what the big problem really comes from the root of all of this confusion Because like if you have to look at yourself to say am I really saved if you're introspective You're going to be like well shoot. I'm sinning all the time. I'm really messing up Um, I I haven't solved this sin that like I keep talking to my wife in this way Where I shouldn't be and this is something that's been happening over and over You know what I mean? And then people will say what you have to be trying There's no passage that says that you have to be trying it says that you have to do Well, they say you have to love god god says if you love them you'll keep his commandments Not that you're going to try to keep his commandments and so on and so there's tons of like I'd like to get in the scripture But again, we can continue to go with whatever you think. But what are your thoughts on on that? I okay I agree with everything you said and I don't think that there's a different differentiation in what I'm saying Here's what I'm saying again We are to keep his commandments. The problem is we can't and what we cannot do is start numbing Okay, I kept this when I've done this I've done this one because ultimately it becomes a heart issue only I and god know If I start measuring what I've done that can't that can't be the question is how then do I know I am saying How do I know I trust him because there are people Who truly legitimately believe that they're saved? And they believe that jesus christ they have the same profession you have that jesus christ died on the cross What makes that person who also believed like simon the sorcerer in acts eight who believed A different tense of the verb is used Who believed and is not saved or the ones in the in the parable of the sower who believed But they aren't What's the difference? There's got to be something when paul says to examine himself examine What because I can promise you and I have met so many of these people who yeah Matter of fact in retrospect. I really didn't I understand because having a head and I was understanding that Jesus died on the cross. Well, that's not it. Is it there's got to be something else and I have to believe But even though I can't I don't I just don't agree All right, you know, do you believe two plus two equals four? Sure Do you believe that with your head or with your heart? I believe it with my head in my heart. I've seen in action All right, what's how so what it would it look like to only believe that with your head? What do you mean? What would it look like to only believe that with your head? I don't know what it would look like Exactly because it doesn't exist there you your heart pumps blood you can only It's either something is true or it's not it's either you think something is true or is not But if I know two plus two equals four, you know what I'm gonna do with it I'm gonna work with that. I said you owe me four dollars. You gave me two I'm gonna give you two more That's a that's a reasonable approach to have but the point is we agree that this whole distinction between heart belief And head belief is made up nonsense that only applies to believing on christ When you We don't do that Is there a such thing as a christian who's not a disciple or my question is are you a disciple 100 percent 100 percent? Okay, what did god's auto what did god say the spirit in us is going to do Okay, you're you're you're going back to the verse about the spirit of god would cause us to Yeah, what what he says gonna do the bible clearly says that the holy spirit will lead us in all truth And um, I'll actually show you No, no, no Ezekiel 36 27 what does it say does that What jesus tells us exactly what the comforter is going to do right in the book of john And he tells us that he will lead us in all truth and understanding and call and give us remembrance for that Which he has said and then we will follow him too, right? No. No. No. That's not what it says Right. Hold on. Jesus didn't say we're gonna follow him No, I'm you're asking me what the holy spirit is for i'm telling you what jesus says Okay. Well, I what but what I asked you was what does that passage refer to what does it mean when god says Either in jeremiah 29 or ezekiel 36 when god says that his spirit is going to cause us now to what degree He doesn't say thing you're implying that god forces us to do things No, no, no, no, he says cause us to walk. What what do you what do you what do you believe he means when he says cause I just told you what I mean. I believe he means he's going to cause us to walk in his teachings And not in the park for you I understand you're mean by the word cause. What do you think what do you mean by that? Does he make us do it? Let's go. Well, all here's what we can do. Let's go look at the word Without without trying to figure it out. We just look at what the word the word cause is this word here, which is to make This is the word So are you saying god makes it you would still say that Yeah, because you would still say that we have to yield to the holy spirit, right? We do now Does he make us you're a Calvinist does he make us do huh? I said I said you would agree that we we have that we have we could choose to yield to the spirit or not, right? We have volition and there's there's this tension because we still have the flesh We still have the spirit But he said what he's going to do now he didn't say totally complete We know that's not gonna happen But if he says the word I saw in Hebrew I saw how I was mean to cause us to walk I think I can give you an explanation for what he means by cause, right? What does it mean if you hire a personal trainer? And he tells you how to structure your diet and your exercise routine to lose weight Then you can say that the personal trainer trainer was a cause in you losing that weight But you're the one who had to pick up the weight You're the one who had to chose like to follow the diet regimen in the same way the holy spirit directs us in how we Should live our lives, but it's either god makes us do it by force or we choose to do it You can't have it both ways. So if we choose wait a second, though He said I didn't and the word that's there is to make the word us. Let me go back to the screen Stand on something. I'm saying does god make us do things or do we choose to do things? What does he say is going to happen? The holy spirit is going to cause us to the issue Okay, here's the problem. Here's but you're assuming. Yeah No, I'm not so okay. You're assuming but you're assuming we want to do good But we just won't do good. We can try to do good We won't there is none of us that will do good nor do we even want to do the issue is though Now we've got a new disposition a new heart. We are a new creature, right new dispositions Because the holy spirit is in us The holy spirit is in us You're you're you're trying to go around it, right? Do you say what it is? So is it does he make us do it or not? The word literally says make you make you make us walk in his states or his teachings It's a yes or no, and I'm trying and I do see you as an elder and I respect you You know, I'm just a little passionate here, right? Don you brother you are fine. You are listen. I've dealt with I'm not I'm not just saying this But I've dealt with actual real life killers. And so yeah I've watched a lot of your videos. I know a lot of your story But okay, so my question is though So does it's a yes. I want a yes or no answer. Does god make us do the good works or not? Yes, the good works we do he makes us do those the spirit does that not on our own If god makes us do works and good works And good works are the evidence that we're supposed to look for In order to know that we're saved then how can that be on the person? It's god that is failing us because what does it take to believe more so than to accept is true Okay, as you It is true then the holy spirit dwells within me that is going to make me do good works Well, then if I'm not manifesting good works, that's god choosing not to know no no Because what does paul say paul paul addresses this very thing Paul says the good. I want to do. I don't do the bad. I don't want to do I keep doing Well, who's making it's it's him that's doing the bad the good that he does Oh wretched man that I am is only the only good thing that's in him. It's the holy spirit the spirit works in us To do Obviously the lord's will the fact that we still have this flesh is our big issue And so he gives us he gives us volition There are times though where guess what god we have free will if you want to use that word So to does god the holy spirit is trying to work in something in us. That's why he says he That began a good work in us He that's god Is going to be the one that's going to complete it not us so us going through this Yeah, it's physically us and there's some desire in us because our heart is changed But ultimately the heart the reason behind this desire to do so is him whatever good I want to do is it's it's no longer I who live But the lord who lives in me the reason why I want to praise him He gives me this the reason why I even want to say yes to him. He does so it's not me That's why that's why what can what can get rid of all the confusion and again It's not saying that because again, we're not saying I don't think I think hopefully move past this That we're not saying we're saved by works But in salvation we do work and but as we go off of his promise, remember If there are no works if there are no works if you're saying but you're saying if there are no works Which I can't describe we can't describe what a person who does no works looks like everyone does good works, right? Yeah, and so there are people who are not saved who do good works. I'm pretty sure The whole late across street wants it twice Everybody does good work. So if good works are the evidence and everyone does good works Then all it takes to know distinguish whether or not someone is saved or not is the what they say they believe So my question is this and I know we have to we have to go ahead and and and leave as well We need to do this again, but here's my question If I used to as a as doing outreach work I have to differentiate between the people who would say Yeah, I believe Jesus and I'm gonna hit this joint and do all these other things and I never I believe Jesus back in 1942 Ain't red ain't prayed and did nothing Uh, I ain't seen no higher here or nothing Christian in my life, but I believe and so I'm I think I'll be all right Well that kind of faith we might Now but the question is how because there's two types of beliefs the one that doesn't save like the parable of the Sowers or Simon and they're just believing that christians How do I know I believed and not to cut you off But just to bring it back to what spark this whole conversation the guy who just described also I will have you know, it's a far cry from the guy alan par described No No Alan par said, oh, you might be going to church. You might be giving your tithes. You might be praying. You might be Don don let me say this brother Don let me say this brother. Let me let me say this don Because and I'm gonna I'm gonna tribute this. I'm gonna trip this age I'm gonna listen listen down. Let's listen down. Listen my listen down and I got No, no, no, wait, wait, listen. This is the guy you just described is some dude smoking a joint Been to church in in over 60 years, right? He he he doing this. He doing that. He on the street, right? That's not the guy alan does describe but no don Don let me listen. I can promise you I can promise you you're gonna change on this It's as committed as I feel like you are you're gonna change on this Let me tell you what alan was describing I've seen this upload This is that's who he said I talked to alan about this for three hours on the phone. He told me you did Pretty sure I understand his view. I've talked to him many times about this season Especially this last time we talked for about three hours. So I understand his view pretty clearly So basically what he's saying that if you're not committed to basically be under the cycle then you're probably not saved in this way. So Um, you try not to get into details Kind of with like our private conversation and stuff But um, but alan does hold a view like that where it's like basically you can look to your life to see if you're saved or not And I think that's what you're saying too. And I would just say that that's just completely unbiblical like Let me say what I'm saying. Let me say what I'm saying. I'm saying That I want to know for a fact that I'm saved I want to know for a fact if I believe now I believe that anybody that really has that that concern am I Probably is safe probably has has genuine belief because worldly folks folks of the devil don't really care. Yeah, I think I am But I have literally seen people Literally remember I've been around the worst of the worst I've been around the guy who says yeah, I believe you I know they can write it out And then we'll go out and rape a man kill them stab them up or whatever when the guards I've seen it and then have no more, you know, and then and then and then convert to Islam Well, wait a second Hold up at that moment at that moment that guy looked like and said it So my point is this okay. I think at least what I get from alan but this There's assumptions behind what you're saying though That's why I said this that's why I say this guys. I don't know. No, that's a none of us know, right, right? Only that's why that's what paul says what you're saying. Well, see that's what paul says. Let let a man examine himself Well, that's that's not true, but Hold on paul didn't say let him examine himself. No paul He says to see if you're in the faith, but he's not talking about the works and he's speaking of rhetorically But but anyways, we can come back to that verse Okay, um, um, if you like that and but that's literally the only person scripture if even let's say that it did say That you don't face an entire theology off that no And I'm not Say it again, but but you're saying that we can look to our lifestyles to know if we're saved or not, right? No, okay, let me say I'm saying this is what I'm saying. I want y'all to hear me I'm saying if a person is to examine himself to see if he's of the faith to see if see if he's believing paul is asking that question because clearly there are people already who think they are Which is why paul continuously gives these warning passages. He says if indeed you are saved make sure he This is not just one time in the book Corinthians. There's several times So what do I have in my disposal me? To verify if I am of the faith do if I do have christ What what do I have to verify that well one if I do sin am I bothered by that? Well, that's something Have I can I can I at least say something that says that? I'm saying well go ahead Is there a verse that says if you sin you're gonna feel you're gonna have a bad feeling about it No, no, no, no, I That's what I'm saying I said what I said that if if I sin If I'm not grieved by that sin If the spirit in me is not grieved I think we got a problem, but again the fact is that he says that we have been saved He says we've been saved to do works the work mission the works that were that that were given to us beforehand Did he not had that does he not intend for us to do anything does he not intend for us to let our works? Uh sign right and then people glorify god because of that are we to not so my question is are we to not do any works? No, but here's the thing. No Oh, hey wait real quick dad real quick because I gotta get off in just a couple of minutes So I gotta leave two in a second Okay, so paul said he was thankful for the law because it wasn't for the law You wouldn't know that he was coveting right But why would he need the law if it was going to be if he had the holy spirit paul had the holy spirit? So the holy spirit would have prompt them to make him feel bad I also have a friend david wood who you might might or may not know who does not feel bad Um, well he has because he's diagnosed as a psychopath. He doesn't have those regular feelings that we have He doesn't have that guilty conscious like people who are saved and not saved But according to that logic, then he would not have the holy spirit because he doesn't feel bad There's nothing about feeling bad as a condition of knowing that you're in the spirit for for one Um, and what was the question you just asked about um producing no works? Yeah, like we said earlier nobody There's nobody on this planet that doesn't produce good works because I mean bill and blend the gates they produce good works And they're not christians, but um, I would say it's a good work to say millions of africans lives, right? I would say that even though like Billing bill gates people don't like bill gates and maybe a bad example But but I'd say so so but The thing is too is like so even if paul was saying this in first crimpings 13 5 All throughout first crimpings too. Just look at first crimpings three. This is where we get the word carno from He's talking about us being carno on the flesh and then we look at first crimpings three You look at verses 10 through 15. What is he saying? He's saying that the people who are saved Their works are their rewards will be burned up But they'll still make it into heaven even if it's through the flames because these people are living like fleshly men He says I can't even call you godly men. I think that's what he says, but he says you guys are still Live like Fleshly men right these people are fooling in the flesh paul does not threaten their salvation ever He does not say if you guys keep don't keep sinning then you're not safe and you're going to go to hell He never gives them those passages and all of first crimpings or second crimpings You know what I mean and you would think that if that was the issue that he was trying to get that It's not and so over and over what you always see in the bible this paul says this is who you are This is what christ has done for you. Um christ has did this for you This is who you are so act like it So you know what I mean if you're a child of god act like it, you know, but it's an adoption And so this is why I think it's so bad because the moment we start telling people to look to their self or their works Or anything like that to know for a say because you make you made an assumption there too when you talked about how Um the people in prison you said I'll talk to these people in prison Who are doing all these things and then they would go out. Let's just say the worst kinds of sins Doesn't really matter. We know that christians can induce him from the bible and reality, right? We know that they continue to sin. Um, even after being saved. So just because their sins that are greater You know, I mean that we can that we subjectively consider greater. Um, then I think um, Hold on one second. Um Just because there's sins that we Consider to be greater from our earthly perspective Before god once and is all it takes is to ruin the perfection, right? But the last part though john The the last part of one guy in particular who was at church said he believed Oh convert it to Islam convert Islam. Was he safe? No But but so is it possible for a christian? Well he brews think about he brews the whole book of he brews What is it these people were saved they're thinking about going back to the law They're trying to go to bulls and goats and and so that's the whole entire context there So you can have a genuine believer who decides to leave and go to another faith, right? No No, I would agree that so you see you don't so then how do you understand the book of hebrews the entire book of hebrews The entire book of hebrews were written to people who all they knew these these jews All they knew was the law and the atonement by that and they thought that what they had to do was every year in atonement by Every year, which is why he contrasts Hebrews with the book of of leviticus and he brings up these images of numbers the day of the day of atonement Any any yeah, but you keep through 7 27 What does he prove 7 27 say I don't have that verse committed a memory all the way But basically he says that you guys have this sacrifice. That's a good once and for all, right? So you have this sacrifice that's going to cover all of your sins So he says so why then would you be trying to go back to the to the To the law with the bulls and goats, right? Because we have a high priest who covers all of our sins, right? And so so that's the whole thing is these people he was urging them not to go back to the law This same thing with galatians when he said how fast have you guys forgotten the truth? You know, I mean he's telling they're trying to go back to the laws to the circumcision So this is what we see the same thing in in galatians These are people who are genuinely believers and they've forgotten the gospel and go into a workspace salvation Which is the same thing that we see consistently with protestants It's the exact same problem and it's the same thing that every other religion on the planet teaches So john here's my question because I I don't want to I don't want to rehash with the path the scriptures that I used earlier But here's my question Are there some people out there in your opinion who think they believe But aren't actual authentic christians Yes, so I would see these people as in math p 7 versus 23 the ones that jesus says the part from me I never knew okay, and how would they how how would they know how would they know? They don't know him. How would they know that they don't have a relationship? Oh, yeah, sure. Well, well, let's think about this so again So if you we can talk about they know him by their fruits, but we'll skip that so we'll go to Um Right when we look at that that verse where he talks about depart from me I never knew you who is it that who or what are the kind of people? Yeah, those Jesus described Right, you he have I not promised Right. Have I not um cast out humans. Have I not It's not the kind of guy that you and alan are describing It you the kind of person that jesus says depart from me I never knew you are in fact the passionate, right? Look, yeah That is a kind of person talking about their own works. No, those are the people that look to their own works Those are the people doing what what you're describing. Uh, I mean, but how do they know they they legitimately thought that they had a relationship with christ No, no, no, no, well, let me let me let me hey don real quick. Let me just finish this down. Don Yeah, no, all right Yeah, just real quick so so that here's the problem these people what were they looking for for assurance of their salvation They were looking to their works. What was the problem? They had their righteousness rather than christ's righteousness That was the entire problem there because this is why it's so bizarre to me It says only the people who do the will of the father are the ones who are going to be saved, right? That's what it's going to say at the end of the work He said depart from me you workers of lawlessness. I never knew you What he's talking about is these people are looking to their own righteousness for their salvation Which is why it's the oh, they're looking at themselves You can look to your own works, but god we did these things in the name They were trusting in their own righteousness in some sense rather than trusting in christ's righteousness This is what I think is the giant problem with a lot of this is because when we teach these things where you say You can know if you're christian enough based on your lifestyle You're teaching them to do those things to the in the same way of the people who jesus told to depart from them Because he never knew them And so so that that's my position on that so don go ahead and go ahead don And then we'll have to go ahead and wrap up. I gotta I gotta uh, uh, doctor out there in the front waiting on me All right, it's all good What'd you say down? No, I'm yeah, I'm saying it's all good. It's all good. It's all good. Here's now here now By the way, this is this is the one main thing that I want to that I really want to focus on Uh, and this is why I even titled the the the wrong fight Because don I would be careful to say that somebody like alan park is not a believer I believe as far as we can tell he is as a matter of fact by the same standard that you're using he is now does he That's fine. But let's hear me out But there are some people out there that are dangerous to the body There I'm looking at a video a lady who's telling somebody that that she's got gold dust on her feet Dangerous to the body that will do again We put some pictures the jim jones of the world who at the first megachurch pastor in the in america believes Open the scriptures reading the bible Some people that are dangerous. I think those are the fights that we need to fight now I'm not saying don't don't have issue or don't have a discussion on these things. Doctrine is fair game I don't care who it is. Doctrine is fair game. I've criticized my former pastor. I've criticized friends Doctrine's fair game But John 3 36, John 3 36, right the the gospel is incredibly clear John 3 36 1st Corinthians 15 1 through 4, you know, I'm saying romans 10 9 the gospel is incredibly clear Anybody that preaches anything other than this he that believeth on the sun hath everlasting life And he that believeth not the sun shall not see life the definition of belief is to accept Um, you know, except something is true. And so when jesus go is going around like we're studying, um We're studying the book of john today and Uh As we were going through it jesus was saying i am the messiah, right? He that's what he was preaching that i am the messiah And so that is what he wanted us to believe that he was the savior of the world that he had come Okay, what is the world? Let me let me say this. I've got I've got to run up here to the to the front But I this what I believe Um, jesus describes Who his sheep are? He tells us that his sheep here and follow Sheep do not walk away And who say do not walk away? The only thing left is can they be snatched away? They cannot be snatched away You're not addressing the scriptures. I I believe you're you're you're going jump into other scripture I've got literally two seconds. So I so I so I can't Um, I've covered I've covered one two three. I've covered about 10 or 12 14 different passages And so I can't do right now. Um, we can have a conversation again I'm saying this is this the gospel is something you see like you're talking about. Oh, you know christian I believe christians can disagree. Listen, I do don I do believe everything Which I do believe that our faith in christ is what saves us our faith only in christ is what saves If I if I place my hold on hold on don If I place my faith in christ, I hadn't had a chance to speak in like life for the last 20 minutes I've said like down. I've got a doctor literally up in the front. I've got to go So I've got to kind of close this out. All right. I'll let you go ahead and I believe what you say I believe what you say it only faith in christ is the only reason why we can be saved I wouldn't care if you if you if you wrote a brand new bible I wouldn't care if you copied the bible perfectly. I wouldn't care if you up every little lady in the world across the street That's not what saves you I believe what saves you like you all believe as well is that faith in what he's done believing in him is Is the issue and then I believe also that when jesus says that his sheep That's who we are as believers. We're a sheep that we will follow that we will hear and that we will never depart That's what I believe. I don't think that we're preaching a different gospel Now if we have some differences on that or whatever then the name and but my my my greater point is that We pigeonhole folks into these extreme categories And think that that person can't be saved because they disagree at the very the one thing that we can at least learn from Is somebody like a james white and a laden flowers who vehemently disagree? Both will state also vehemently that both are Men of god and love the lord. We just differ and I think that's the main thing There's certain fights worth having There's certain disagreements worth having in a godly fashion And so if we're going to say that faith alone is what saves us And I think if someone says that if they tell us that's what they believe Then amen Anyone that says that salvation comes as a result of works or is kept by works We vehemently disregard that as well. Yeah, so that's what it sounds like you're saying. It's what alan I'm telling you what i'm saying Guys, no, you guys give a lip service to the true gospel But then you backhand look works you you make all of these these these amendments to the gospel You know, you add all these qualifiers and it's it's it's a corruption of the gospel It's not as though I didn't use it. It's not as though I didn't use a scripture though And so but but I I've got to go ahead and run Everybody everybody, you know, everybody can you know Muslims abuse scripture as well, you know, I'm saying anyone can that quote scripture and get it to say what they wanted to say All I'm saying is that when there is incredibly clear scripture that tells us what it takes to be safe I don't see why we seek to amend to that, you know, I don't I don't I don't think I I seek to amend that As a matter of fact, um, I think I do a very good job of working through the scripture I'm at my perfect. Do I know it? No, but I think I do I think I do again. I I I I love the scripture so much that I wanted to learn the languages Even folks will blast me for learning the languages. That's fine. But I spend my time in this and so We we disagree but but the point that I want to make before we leave is that we can disagree and still be brothers. Amen Um, I want to say thank you The there's a thing we there's so many things in in, you know, hold on down. Hold on down. Let John get ready to go Oh, I was just gonna say, yo, um, thanks for having me on. I appreciate You taking the scripture seriously I think that I would like to continue this conversation at some point too because I I want to say like Yeah, I think there's a lot of kind of issues here, but I think we can work them out So it'd be nice to have another conversation soon. Hope we can do it at some point Yeah, but thanks for having me on and um, and don um, I'll get you up later man. Get it get it get a talk to you, bro All right, brother All right, don I love you too, brother. Uh, john. I love you all guys I have really got to go the lady the ladies up there waiting on me. I have I've got to go But listen, we're gonna, uh, I got your email. So and I got your number So we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna do this again some sort of way. All right All righty. All right. Have a good one. Cory. Thanks for your time. All right Guys again, uh, thank you all I I would like to dismiss in a more proper way But let me just say this as we leave For those who don't know or looking to know if you want to be safe If you want to find your way in heaven if you want salvation All you've got to do is trust that Jesus christ Pay the debt that you couldn't pay on the cross if you believe that the bible says that without a without a doubt without question You shall be saved forever. Hey man You