 Thank you. Welcome to another episode of DMTV. Tonight we will show you how dreams are being prepared. People think it's a very simple and easy process, but you need to mix up everything. Songs, music, random thoughts, love, relationships, friendships, all those ships. And if there is one person who knows very well about all those ships, it is Gael Garcia Bernal. Welcome Gael. Hey, hello. Hello. It's so nice to see you. You've got such a fresh name. How did they do it? How did they do it besides the sleep? Besides the sleep, it's been a month. I've been sleeping and dreaming a lot recently. And I've got to say this because this is the only place to begin nowadays. I mean, we know in all this one automatic conversations with all friends and family and everyone. You know, the point of departure in a way is to say how privileged we are and how lucky we are that we are able to talk about all these things in our home, in a place that, you know, that harbors us, that we're able to isolate ourselves. I still don't understand the term maybe because I wasn't born like English, not my first language, but self-isolate in a way which fortunately we can do with other people as well. And this is such a privilege, such a big, big privilege and it's been a crazy time, of course. It's been a lot of dreams and also of reality, of reality being more real than ever before. I have to mention that a couple of days ago, a dear colleague of mine, a friend-actor called Mark Bloom, died from coronavirus complications in New York. And, you know, one wakes up from the dream space where we can, you know, we can probably biologically even solve certain things in our biochemistry in a way. And we wake up and we are faced with, you know, with good things, with life, with birds, with the clean air. But at the same time, we're faced with this reality that hits us very hard, like hearing the passing of a very dear friend or someone that is close to you or someone having real complications that span beyond health. Also, economically, I mean, socially or some people that are stranded in other countries, you know, like you, yourself, right? Yeah, I mean, I fully agree with you. I mean, it's a, first of all, it's a total privilege to be able to talk to you. And thanks to coronavirus, actually, we are getting together again. So, not necessarily, not necessarily the virus is an enemy, I think it depends on us how we react to it. But unfortunately, as you said with your friend, very often it depends on incompetent governments and completely stupid decisions. I'm lucky enough, I'm in Vienna at the moment, you know, there is this old saying, I think it's ascribed to Karl Kraus, which says, if the world is going to end, go to Vienna, because there is going to end 10 years later. Well, the situation here is serious. I mean, I'm in self-isolation, how they call it now for what, 14 days, a bit more, I think. The whole country is a lockdown, borders are closed, me and then the other people cannot really return to their own countries. But at the same time, you know, this old saying that go to Vienna and it will happen in 10 years, this is not anymore true, you know, you can see what happened in Wuhan. It's now happening in other cities, maybe not in the same way. But what I read from the newspapers is that some doctors are very worried that Mexico might be turning into a new Italy. They call it like that because Italy is now becoming the symbol of an utter crisis and human tragedy. Can you perhaps tell us, you were in Mexico at the moment, what does the situation look like in Mexico? Oh, I know. No, but it is the very difficult thing to, I mean, the very complex thing to talk about, of course, because, you know, like on a recent interview from the representatives of the World Health Organization here in Mexico, they were saying that obviously the, you know, the recipe, the perfect recipe doesn't exist. So it's how to approach this, how to solve this immediately. Yes, there are great examples of places that have, you know, managed to, you know, to interact positively with their context and actually achieve some goals. I mean, Italy is an extreme example of action taken way beyond the expansion from what I've heard or read, the expansion of the virus in a typical pneumonia, you know, that were happening in the hospital. I mean, already, I mean, the action was taken afterwards in a sense. And in that sense, Mexico is taking action before that. And the action is more similar, because we have to say it is more similar, it is not the same, of course, because it is a very different context. But it is more similar to what South Korea in a way is doing, aside from the testing, whatever, you know, the kind of thing. Basically, I mean, let's take into account that Latin America as a whole, we're more used to this, let's say, yeah, from disasters to viruses. And I'm not bragging about it. I mean, it is not nothing to brag about, of course, but at the same time it gives us a certain kind of, you know, an approach like another type of resilient approach, which forces us to engage with the context in a much more, you know, much more thorough way in a way, and also trying not to panic at the beginning, because of course we feel the fear everybody is afraid of this. But you know, this has been kind of with communication and with information we've managed to understand it a little bit more. So, those are the two extremes I've been seeing in Latin America, or I'd say in the Western world I've been taken. Two extremes out of three, the third one I'll mention it afterwards, but the two extremes are what Mexico is doing, which is a much more, you know, information kind of, you know, maybe like tacitly saying, you know what, if you feel a little bit bad, maybe you have it, isolate. Let there's no point of, it's no point of testing, let's act like we all have it, or like we all could get it. So let's just stay home, which is basically ultimately, you know, what solve things really I mean that some say the testing and isolating and kind of finding out where the hotspots are or whatever, but you know, to take action really straight on is to say, okay, let's all go home, you know, for the moment. And the other extreme would be what Argentina is doing, which is basically, Argentina is taking very strict measures that are in a way locking up the country in many ways, which are really, really, some of them really hardcore, like, like not even allowing Argentinians to go into Argentina right now, until the 31st of March, apparently. And obviously this leaves many people stranded and this is kind of unusual to hear about, you know, your own country not letting you in is quite an extreme thing, no. But, you know, at the same time, those two points of view are really valid in this situation. I mean, valid in the sense that they have arguments for and against those. Obviously, as time evolves, we'll see how things kind of, you know, evolve or hopefully naturally may become better. The third example of what the Western world is taking is the example of Boris Johnson, Trump and Bolsonaro, what they're doing, which is kind of ridiculous. It's like, you know, it's when we're like in a Miss Universe agent, when they ask a Miss Universe agent, like, how would you solve world peace or whatever, you know, and the answer is, actually, the answers are far much more thorough and much more interesting than what Trump or Bolsonaro or Boris Johnson would answer, you know, and immediately there is a much more, I don't know, there is a thorough approach in a way. But their answers are quite like short-sighted and quite like, you know, stupid and actually comical and if it wasn't so dramatic the situation. But yeah, so that's more or less how I'm seeing things in terms of in Latin America, you know, and this is what we're debating all the time. One angle wants much more harder, you know, strenuous decisions and the other wants a much more information, more lax kind of approach, which I mean, you know, there is this thing in the there is this thing that I started to listen to your other interviews and your other programs, your other editions of the of the MTV is that, you know, I've heard a lot this position of the doctors making the most horrendous and tragic and and the cruel decision is to say who lives and who doesn't, which perhaps is something that happens naturally in hospitals most of the time. No, I mean, at the end, we established this position of the hospital, and there is that point of saying, okay, who's going to live and who's not going to live. I mean, who doesn't have a chance. And it is a very cruel decision, but in a way, the decision has been taken there, you know, and what's really, it sounds very dramatic, but it's not far from what reality is. In a sense, is that this decision in Latin America comes further before and comes on a much more political kind of spectrum of decisions. There is that the thing of like, you know, the social approach towards this, towards this crisis is something that definitely needs to be tackled. And there sometimes the decision comes like, okay, maybe maybe it's better that this chunk of the population gets sick, rather than having all this chunk of the population getting sick or all this chunk of the population dying from hunger or poverty. It is a very cruel decision. It is incredibly tremendous. But then again, I mean, the whole world is in this situation. And it just, I mean, what this virus has cost us is to see how fragile everything is and how fragile all the, you know, the the makings and all this, you know, the organization that we've decided to live in is, you know, with this invisible thing, just a little, it's like a little drop that spills the whole glass that was already spilling. Yeah, what I really like is this, let's say, so Latin American perspective, which you gave, you know, in this, if I understood right, you know, we've been through so much deep shit already that we are resilient in a way in a different way than other people. You know, last Sunday in Zagreb, where my family is based and many friends, besides Zagreb in Croatia being under total lockdown because of the virus, an earthquake hit. The strongest earthquake in the last 140 years in Zagreb. And of course the people from Zagreb also reacted in a very funny way, you know, because what is there, but to make jokes about it. And when I told it to my friend from Guatemala, she said, you know, I said, I send a message next day and I said, you know, but it wasn't one earthquake, it was 30 earthquakes. And then she said, oh, you know, we, Guatemala, we live with earthquakes every day, you know, we've got used to it. So in that sense, I mean, I'm not downplaying the tragedy which happened in Zagreb, but in that sense, it also shows what you, as we started, you know, by talking about self isolation. I think in Europe, you know, at least for people who are doing some similar jobs like me or for my generation and so on, self isolation is not such a bad thing. As for those people in Europe who are already victims of austerity or unemployment. And then, you know, my big fear is, you know, once this starts spreading in Latin America, it will, you know, even with the resilience you guys obviously have, it will hit hard because for, you know, hundreds of years of colonialism, decades of Chicago boys, ideology, austerity, privatizations and so on, the system itself, perhaps it's not so prepared. But at the same time, and that's what I want to ask you because you, you cover whole Latin America, you know, you're not just in Mexico, you're everywhere and you've been filming recently last networking in Cuba last year. So the beautiful images we saw were the Cuban doctors going showing solidarity, perhaps you could tell us something about that and maybe also how does it come that it's the Cuban doctors who are the ones who are showing solidarity and who are equipped with this approach to know what to do and react in this kind of situation. Again, no, it is again reality hitting very high as well because the reality is that there is a, you know, there is a very strong medical system in Cuba. A lot of doctors from Cuba live everywhere live in many different parts of the world. Public or private institutions, you know, I mean, it is a cauldron of doctors, of people that have this, you know, this conviction of their life dedicating it to health and to solve illnesses. And that is something that is incredibly real and incredibly generous, of course, and it is one of the, yes, it is one of the triumphs of the Cuban Revolution. And we have to mention it as a triumph, as a definite triumph of the Cuban Revolution. But, you know, the narrative, the established narrative of the world doesn't allow that to become or to have the importance it really must have because we still have a stupid horrendous, tragic embargo that actually has killed more people or will kill more people than the virus in Cuba, which is this embargo that the United States has been implementing for many, many, many, many years. I know that Italy recently, maybe one not recently, but a few years ago they took off themselves out of the embargo and everything, and the relations have been kind of closing a little, no, we're getting closer a little bit. I find it incredibly general that it is, or I'm very sorry my English is so bad right now. Yes, very moving that someone from another part of the world is helping other people, Chinese doctors are also doing the same. People that have been through this, people that are going through this with their own special point of view and everything they're supporting other people, and this is what also throws us into this reality that we're talking all the time now. I find myself every conversation I have every single part of the day is I speak like if there had been a kind of a paradigm shift of, of, I speak from the world, you know, I speak like in first person at the world. You know, I start from there and then I go into my context, then I go into my, my problems, which is crazy I've never experienced that before. No, it is a weird shift, no, and I think we're all realizing that, that in a way we, we talked to someone, and we already know more or less the angles that we have to touch, you know, and it is about everybody, it's not about only us. And I don't know, maybe it is, it is a little bit corny. Yes, we're going to fall into something corny sooner rather than later and something very romantic in a sense, but I find that very as a, as a, as a principle, an incredible positive difference that this is bringing. Yeah, me too. But let's come to that a bit later maybe to the topic of love, solidarity friendship, because you mentioned the Cuban Revolution. So let me ask you a question connected to that because of course everyone knows you know as well. You remember that you played Che Guevara in Motorcycle Diaries. And there was this I mean sorry for the dark question but I think this scene and your personal experience can be helpful to people I think there is this beautiful but beautiful I mean I wouldn't say tragic that's life seen on the boat when Che Guevara who suffered of asthma has an asthmatic attack. And you yourself are all is you're also asthmatic. And so my question is, you know, what can, on the one hand, what can Che Guevara never thought I would ask you this kind of question. In times like a medium. Yeah, what could Che teach us, and he's constant near death experience, how to cope with a near death experience and what is your experience of asthma also teaching us you know, so perhaps you could put it in parallel with with the current global pandemics where everyone also has to protect their lands and everything and take care. Yeah, well, fortunately my asthma condition was when I was a little kid, and it kind of went away. I'm sure there's someone that is seeing or listening to this conversation and also have the same because I found it in many people. When we were kids, we were kind of asthmatic and later on we started to get away from it, in a way, but we have it somewhere there, you know, and the feeling or the kind of strange sensation that that caused and definitely when portraying Ernesto, I felt I understood, I mean, from my very exegious personality I understood a little bit, you know, the point of how the asthma attacks for him, they became a place for him to grab strength to read, to study, to, you know, intellectualize certain thoughts, and then afterwards when he was feeling better, he would go out there and take action in a way. And back in the day it was terrible, you know, the Ventolin didn't exist, you know, the medicine for expanding the bronchial didn't exist, it was adrenaline. Sometimes they would inject, and it must have been, I mean, with the wrong dose, I mean, talk about the adrenaline rush, that must have been the worst adrenaline rush ever, you know, and completely, completely also had no fault, you know, and it's proficient, you know, it's like, you know, so I think that that was the point of his, for him to grab strength like what we're doing in a way right now, we're grabbing strength and we're putting everything into shape in order to come out afterwards from this way more stronger. The body is naturally doing that also, the bodies are doing that, you know, biochemically, we're doing that, and so what would Ernesto think about in these days, well, that's the thing that I've always, you know, when we were doing the promotion for this film, I was asked a lot about, you know, certain things like what would Ernesto feel to see himself and the t-shirt, you know, and, you know, if he would come, and of course it is a hypothetical weird strange question, but there's one answer I have in a way for that is that during his time, he understood something that I definitely wouldn't agree right now in terms of, you know, he understood that the armed way was the only way out, and I understand why he understood that in that moment, maybe if I would have been born in that moment, I would have felt the same. But nowadays, obviously, I don't think like that, and I, understanding that, that, you know, in his context, what he saw, also how Destiny kind of put him in the hotspots all the time, you know, and how, you know, how Destiny brought him to meet with Fidel Castro here in Mexico City, those series of consequences in a way led up for him to make the decisions that he, or think, or, you know, think about the context that we were living in and try to act on it. Nowadays, I mean, when we were doing the film Alberto Granado, the friend of Ernesto, he told us at a certain moment before doing shooting the movie, he said, he, we were dancing and we were there in a party and everything and he said, yeah, come guys, come, come, come, come, let me tell you something, that's, because we had been asking him a lot of questions, you know, and we had been asking him like a lot of questions about the journey and stuff and he, perhaps the most modern thing someone has ever told me and modern really because it was a, it was a, an incredibly futuristic approach and general approach, he said, and don't play us, don't, don't try to imitate our voices. Use your voices to describe your journey. Play yourself, because you guys, us being the same age as they were in those days, you guys have much more information and much more a sense of the world and much more a sense of Latin America than we used to have in those days. You guys have much more things to say than we had in those days. And he said, just go and tell your story through, yes, maybe use, use those as references, but tell your story and that ultimately was what, what motorcycle diaries was for me. It made me, and Rodrigo de la Serba and all the people that participated in the film, we all felt immediately that our home was bigger, you know, that our, that the place where we're from is so much more big and everything is then, you know, Latin America is for me the place I'm from, really. I feel in every country in Latin America, I feel I'm in a place where I supposed to be, you know. I would love to say that as well, but I was actually planning to travel to Mexico, but now this global pandemics stopped me. But what I really love is what you said now, and brings me to another point, because if you make this, you know that today we have to have our own voice, and that today we at least have the possibility you know, Che Guevara and also other revolutionaries were, if they were real revolutionaries, they're always dreaming about internationalism. And also today I think precisely internationalism, but in the sense of transnationalism, and not just states who are cooperating, but peoples coming together, social movements cooperating, is more important than ever. And I think, you know, if I can make one short historical parallel, you know, unlike the Spanish flu in 1918, when of course the very name of Spanish flu comes because of the fact that only in Spain they were reporting about it. And the other countries which are censoring it called it the Spanish flu. But at that time, not just because of censorship, but also because of technology, I think someone in Germany or United States or Mexico didn't really know what is going on. You know, although the world was much developed than the 14th century when the Black Death hit, and then also led to the destruction of feudalism. I think what is the difference today? That's why I find your words so hopeful is precisely that I sense, and maybe this should sound as naive hippie stuff, I sense that the sort of global awareness is rising. And if you look at the facts, like more than two billion people today are in one way or the other in confinement, self isolation, isolation currently in those who are lucky enough to have a home or whatever. And I think most of these people are going to sleep and waking up with the same thought. And that same thought is coronavirus which then also goes into all other directions into an assessment or criticism of your own government. And also criticism of the political economy of global capitalism, you know, which ruins the health care systems, which doesn't appreciate enough care work, you know, not only care work, but also the shop assistants, the waste collectors and so on. And I think this sort of global awareness is changing. And on the other hand, of course, you have you made that beautiful movie know about Chile, you know, you're at the same time you have the Chicago boys coming, you know, repeating the mistakes of the 2007 2008 financial crash, in the sense that now you can see already how the big companies such as Amazon or they are pumping in a lot of money into airlines or the cruise ships and so on. So you can see that I mean, on the one hand, I think everything is still possible, but you can see that there is a struggle going on for what kind of world will rise out of this. Yes, and it is, and our tendency, maybe making it day by day and everything is to be a little bit optimistic about it, you know, in the sense that, okay, there is a certainty that we will definitely not go back to the horror that we were living before and that horror can mean different things for many different people, but but we can agree on certain things we I mean we can definitely agree I think there is no one. And they still are negationist, which is crazy. But not not as many as with the climate crisis. But but they are there are still negationist. And, and, but aside from them which obviously incompetence or negationism is going to, you know, show it. It's other hands and improve them wrong in a way. And I think that that that there is this optimism of an uncertainty that we need health structure, a public health structure that is that is strong enough to tackle this event like this. Everybody I think is starting to agree from whatever, whatever point of view or whatever political point of view they come from, they know that this is important because they can see how fragile it is that a health situation can affect so many of the aspects that that you know that that matter in the or that affect them in their own skin, let alone make the meals but at the same time make us. I don't know it affects our, our, you know, the, you know, I've never. I've always had this kind of existential is kind of obviously crisis known and questioning them everything, but they are much more they didn't much more high but you know like hypothetical or rather abstract, you know, certain way. The future is a fire much more like who would I want to be, you know, this kind of like very, I don't know, long lasting kind of, you know, issues that that storm my head. But, you know, one thing that we're actually questioning ourselves is what's going to happen in a couple of weeks. And about jobs and about about, I don't know what we do and where we go or what we, who we can help or what's going to happen and stuff. And it's like, I mean, although the kind of it's strange how that existential crisis in a way has become so much more like short-sighted in a way, no. But at the same time, of course, with the calm of the night or in the morning or everything, we start to ponder about this kind of optimistic outlooks that hopefully we will come out with. Obviously, sometimes the pessimistic things come across. Wow, I mean, I've been, I've been, I've been very anxious, I've been, I wouldn't say depressed because sometimes the depression, you know, is a feeling of, you're the only person that's living this but I mean, there's kind of a little bit of a consolation thing about all this is that we're all living it so you don't feel that alone in this. But you know, I sometimes feel incredibly scared and anxious and wanting the horror not to become a reality. I stick to the optimistic side most of the time and obviously I think that that's what's going to end up happening and I want to make myself sure that I do everything in my hand to make this possible. Yeah, I noticed with myself as well, besides the depression and going up and going down, you know, constantly and waking up and wait, you know, for me, for instance, one week ago I woke up and I was waiting for the worst news about Coronavirus and I get a message from a sister, photos of Zagreb, you know, this kind of middle and local city in the breeze and, you know, partner with the child. So, and I'm like, what the fuck, what's happening now, an earthquake, you know, what's next, you know, I think everyone is waking up in that sense, and you're completely right that the way we count time has changed. You know, previously I was you as well, you know, scheduling things months, even years ahead, but now I actually don't even count time anymore in weeks or days, it's becoming ours, you know, that's changed. As I was watching some movie clips of your work, I actually came to a very silly, silly conclusion that most of the movies you did are in one way or the other way connected to a sort of disaster. So, science of sleep, you know, you are Stefan, who is drawing a calendar of disasterology, and then most recently, when we've been last in touch, I think in January, you told me that you are in Chicago, filming a TV series about a global pandemic. I mean, what happened to that? Did you shoot it? Did you finish it? Is that going to be aired? And perhaps, I mean, it's called Station 11, perhaps is there any lesson we can take out of that science fiction, science fiction, have any lesson anymore today in this world science fiction? Oh, man. Yeah, well, it is based on a book that I'm sure many people have read because it was a very famous book, especially in the United States. And yeah, it deals with it. It deals with what happens a lot with the consequences of a global pandemic, but it's more about, it shows us a little bit on the edge of the future, in a sense, what happens to human relationships afterwards. And on a very, on the premise that the world has kind of institutions have kind of collapsed, you know, like nothing is like we thought it was before, and how this everlasting sense of spirituality or religion in a way kind of blossoms in this situation. So it is an interesting philosophical kind of, you know, put into a game in a way that the story plays, but we managed to shoot what we had to shoot before, and we're going to pick it up sometime soon. Yeah, but, but it was, it was meant to be like that. It was meant to be like, we're going to shoot a few episodes before, and then there was going to be a hiatus and then we were going to pick it up afterwards. And in a way, maybe that's, I mean, this show was structured like that, maybe, like, and then it made it so new that there was something going to happen. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, and, and it's something that that in a way we've been talking a lot and we have been pondering a lot, while shooting it as well, because this was happening already in China very strongly, and, and there was this thing of like, well, what's going to happen with this and incredibly timely, but that that is not a longer a surprise anymore with fiction and with, and with, and with something that I want to go forth, like, can I throw something, but maybe just because, you know, man, you know, I've been, I've been finding a, like we all have finding solace in certain, you know, maybe comfort is the wrong way but finding the expression of love in different, in different ways. I find myself very distracted in a way, like I cannot concentrate on just on entertainment, you know, I find it very complicated I think I've watched a few either series or films that I, that they just completely, I don't know, they numbed me in a way, or I was numb already in a way. And I've been connected to something very specific, which the elementally throws me into a very kind of, you know, a very strong sense of being, which is to play the guitar, for example. And I'm very bad, you know, I'm very bad, but I love it. And I love playing and singing songs and, and, and this kind of this, this, this activity has given me like an immense meaning and, and, and a very moving meaning, you know, like the other day I was playing of course in guitar, which one you play, which you were here because it's, you know, it's like, I mean, it's kind of a good one to learn. And that's, that's the meaning of the song. If you sing it and you play it, or if you sit down, which now we have time to do, we sit down and we listen to it strongly. And, oh man, it just takes you away and into many places. So I've been finding the expression of love in, in, in the, in the strangest combination in artistic consequences, be it cooking or food or just really contemplation of the outside world. I mean, artistic consequences being very close to spirituality and all of that. And science, you know, like, and science. And scientific language. And I have a friend who is, who's watching this actually, who's a biologist. And, and he's always, he always talks in this two terms, you know, he's a, he's a biologist, he's a scientist, but he's a very artistic person as well. And he's, what he does has a very strong artistic consequences and he appreciates a lot of them. He's always argument the point of encounter between both between science and art. And let's just call it artistic consequences because really, I mean, it's, it's far much bigger, no, in a way, and less self defined. You know, I'm doing art now, let's see later in this time, I don't know. So I, I, I've been finding a lot of solace there and, and, and, man, how about you? Well, I have a confession to make as well. I mean, unfortunately, because I'm stuck in a city where I didn't wasn't supposed to start. I don't have a guitar. And to be honest, I didn't play a guitar since teenage years, which was also not playing guitar. It was hardcore music. So it was a bit tough, but I will do it. But to be honest, you know, also at the beginning, you know, I, I, at the beginning, you're happy a bit, a few days. Oh, there is at least people like us who are a bit more privileged. You know, there is no schedule, finally, blah, blah, blah. I mean, for me, the first days were also very traumatic. You know, can I return there? Can my partner return there? Will I see my family? When will I see them? Borders are closed and so on. And then out of this kind of feeling of, I would say, utter helplessness. We created, for instance, this what we call TV, as you'll see by Little Studio and so on. And to be honest, you know, it gives me a reason to wake up, to go and have a shower, even, you know, because otherwise, you know, what would be the, you know, I don't know, you know, and to see people like you and then the audience of this show, on this show, we're also so great that you see people because, you know, I think we are in a very interesting situation that public spaces don't operate anymore, you know, cinemas, Cannes, Venice Festival, theaters, music festivals, sports and so on. And more and more, we are actually using these spaces as public spaces, which I must as a critical theorist and historical materialist say that they appear as public, but it's still on a platform, you know. I mean, thanks to Zoom that we can use it and so on, who sees what will happen with it. But let's just be aware that also these spaces, which we use now, let's not take them for granted, you know, who knows what will happen. But through this kind of online space, I came also to the realization of what you call love. You know that, I mean, love in the sense, okay, you're in Mexico, it's what, it's one o'clock in the afternoon, I'm in Vienna, it's almost eight o'clock for someone in Berlin or I don't know, you know, Africa, it's poor watching us, it's a different time zone, but we are all together in this, sharing our thoughts, sharing our fears, sharing our hopes. And also what I realized since the global pandemic started this, you know, the amount of phone calls I had with people whom I really love, you know, just saying, you know, how are you, is there any chance to help you? You know, the kind of emails I got from people, do you need my money, you know, or something like that. Really directly, you know, if I can help you somehow, do you need an apartment? Can I do that or that? And you see that this kind of solidarity is growing. I don't know, and that keeps me alive. Otherwise, I would also go deep down into depression, you know. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's, there is a strong relationship between these discoveries and time, you know, as well as there is a strong relationship between time and being confined. This is apparently what's going to, so it is a test of time, in a sense, all of this. And maybe the lessons that we have to take from all of this is not necessarily something, I mean, the most kind of evident consequence would be slow cooking. But you know, the fact that, you know, in artistic forms, for example, it's always been said how the Beatles were, you know, confined to a place in Hamburg for one year, playing five nights every week, or six days, or eight days a week. Okay, so they were playing all the time there, and they were practicing them for a whole year, they were practicing. And even though they were extremely talented, and yes, born with the talent and born with the, you know, the gracious gift, they practiced and they had time to evolve into this kind of musicians that they later became. And it is something that also time makes that, and that is something that we have to, we're experiencing this right now. I found myself also wanting to be incredibly productive as soon as this whole thing started, you know, and wanting to be incredibly, you know, like do this and that, and put times and everything and everything. And I failed, of course, you know, with time to keep that schedule, I've failed completely. And my daughter, for example, she, in her calendar, she established one for the whole family, and she says, okay, one of the strands of this period of time, it's called time for peace. And time for peace means basically do whatever you want in a way, but do whatever you want without nobody telling you, hey, you have to do this or you have or watch this or time of peace of whatever. Maybe we need that we need we hopefully one of these things that are gonna come across and certainly in me and I'm gonna change that in my own life, definitely. I'm gonna give myself more time to do things and to this and definitely to stop this crazy, you know, notion that I could be in any part of the world at any time. Traveling, that's gonna stop for me, for that, definitely. I'm not gonna go back into that crazy, because it was affecting me strongly and it was hurting me even and I found myself dry and I found myself with nothing to talk about today anymore, you know, I'm not leaving. I don't know. It's important. Yeah, fully fully agree. I mean, this time, you know, your daughter has time for for peace. My friend recently told me that some of the parents complained saying, oh, we cannot anymore. We are all the time with our kids in the in the apartment. This is how can I sell my kid on eBay and so on. And then one of my younger friends said, imagine that when I was young, parents told me you have to stay at home, play video games. And he said, I would, I would think that I ended up in heaven, you know, that I died. So there are also good sides. I mean, at least from the child children's perspective in that there is also philosophical point, which I think you are leading to, you know, Walter Benjamin in his thesis on the on the history of philosophy has this nice image of revolutionaries after Revolution in France shooting at clock towers. That was the first thing they were doing shooting at time. And then if you would go back to like off in the Middle Ages, then you will see that there is a direct link between the clock time universe and schedules and sort of capitalist realism, you know, that everything is measured through the hour and so on. And then you end up as you said, dry and you don't have time for the meaningful things. So that might be a good outcome, but I talk too much, and I can see we have and I would ask you many more things and we can maybe be a little unusual. But let's start with the questions I can see many questions are coming. So okay, there's a question connected to your guitar in a way. You sang in the Oscars, your video, I don't know whether I've pronounced, has a lot of views. You did Mozart in the jungle. Have you ever imagined being so successful in music? No, no, of course, not never in my life, but it was, or maybe, maybe yes, very deeply, you know, like the same way that maybe on the same level that I wanted to be a football player. But I realized, you know, that I was a football player that, yeah, I kind of did it okay, but that my future was going to be really, really small. I wasn't going to have a, like a big career wasn't the talent that everybody would point out and say, oh my God, this guy plays incredible. They would say he plays well, you know, and that was it. I don't think everybody would say that about me and the music and everything, but the enjoyment I've had with football and the enjoyment I've had with music is something that, first of all, it's my right. First of all, it's something that I, it's my privilege in a way, my ownership. I have an enjoyment, a particular enjoyment with music that really, with Mozart in the jungle, I think it transcended a little bit and I've had the chance to learn about music and also experiencing something that actually, at a certain point in my life, I would say it saved me because it made me go into another, you know, another language and another universe of experiencing things which reaches music and that's something that right now, for example, is where I go to as well, you know. I'm so glad to hear. So after the crisis is finished, we can make an online concert or even during the crisis, I don't know. I don't know what you saw in Novi Sad, in Serbia, there was a, what is it, an orchestra coming back from the National Theatre. I think they come back from China, if I'm correct, and they came back to Serbia, they were all, to Novi Sad, they were all in self-isolation and then they made a zoom with different, and everyone was playing his or her own instrument and Pella Ciao. And that was fantastic, you know, you see people on the screen at the same moment and you see that, you know, self-isolation doesn't necessarily mean isolation, you can even make art, you can even make music in it and so on. Absolutely. Second question, that's a tough one. Gael, what advice would you give to the youth in regards of love in time of coronavirus? In regards of what? What advice would you give to the young people in regards of love, love in time of coronavirus? Oh my God, you gave the title, you gave the title. Exactly. Okay, oh yeah, basically there is a reference I can go to. We were born when, I mean, we were kids when all of a sudden we heard about an AIDS pandemic, you know, and back in those days it was, I mean, and it was sexually transmitted, that was the first thing we learned, you know, even before we learned that we had sex education we heard about, like it was sexually transmitted. You know, before we learned that and then afterwards they explained to us how it is sexually transmitted, you know, and obviously it is something that as a kid we kind of, we all, I don't know, we're very curious about of course, normally, naturally, but it got us and the whole humanity was deeply scared of how this, the transmission of this and how it was, and how they didn't know many things and how it was expanding and they didn't know anything and they said, okay, it's just this, they came up with this notion of in Mexico it was a very common, but I think it was in many different parts of the world as well, that it was solo contubarejo, only with your partner, only have sex with your partner, that's it, no, like that. And that obviously hit a very strong note in how the world was kind of going. And in a way we, there was a feeling of, I would say that certain point I was like, like, shit, this is my awake, my sexual awakening and I'm like talking to, and you know, the other guys had this chance to fuck all they want, you know, and now I'm in this situation where it's impossible to even know what is right and what is wrong, because I don't know, I have no idea, no, and obviously the lack of information back then was huge, you know, and the fears and the fears that certain institutions, like the church, you know, was like, oh my god, you're gonna die, if you touch that, you're gonna die, or this is, so, so my advice to young people would be, we were born into something even way much more frightening, much more that had to do with, you know, an integral part of being young, which is the sexual awakening, the sexual note, you know, and in a way we understood and we kind of, you know, we counter, or let's say we resisted in a way or we changed the dynamic by information, by eliminating the, through many movements, eliminating the stigma that existed with AIDS, with obviously medicine made huge advances in this as well, and, you know, nowadays we know what it is, you know, and which, by the way, with coronavirus, we know what it is, so that is a huge difference from back then, I mean, there was a couple of years that nobody knew and they were trying to hush it and silence it, I mean, you know, Ronald Reagan and they were hushing this kind of thing that was going on, you know, and they were putting the stigma on homosexuality and non-Africans, you know, especially, and it was terrible, you know, this whole thing that happened back then, so, in a way, my advice would be like, okay, this has happened in humanity, it happened not long ago, but really with information and with struggling not to be ignorant about what's happening, it is a way out, definitely. I'm reading more questions, there are plenty of them and I'm sorry to everyone because we won't have time to answer every question. Join us next time and I hope with Gael we will also speak more, but so let me go to another question, you mentioned Ronald Reagan, there comes a question connected to neoliberalism, so it says, the coronavirus crisis plays a huge role on government ideologies around the world, my question is how do you think this crisis influences neoliberal countries? Well, I mean, it is, going back to a little bit what we talked about and in a way which we're kind of all starting to agree on is that it's the thing of, okay, from all sides of the spectrum, people are agreeing that we need a strong health system, which we know health is not only, I go to the doctor about health. Don't do that, Gael, don't do that on the screen, come on. I told you that was going to be a little bit of coffee. So, so, I mean, this, this, what was I saying, I forgot completely, like, I was sneezing, oh no, yes, okay, so the, all those health is not only that, we know that it is not only hospitals and doctors, it is information, it is schools, it is, you know, we need a strong public institutions that are free for all, absolutely, that are, you know, that make us grow into a much more, you know, intelligent and free society, you know. And, and that's something that it's changed by the, by like, like a hammer, you know, it got hit like with a hammer and it changed completely. So, hopefully, hopefully, many of the old tactics and techniques of recommendations and formulas that they've been, you know, technocratically kind of been argumented, no longer takes place. It's been obvious way before, not, not, not only because of coronavirus, but this is the last drop, that from the, all the drops that have spilt the glass, no. So, definitely something is going to change when and the, and right now, it's a think tank from the United States, this is that. You know, come on, the United States has that pressure. So, think tanks couldn't. prevent that or I don't you know recommendations are much more we have to develop a holistic kind of project we need our you know our scientists from all other I suppose thinking about this with a friend our scientists from all our countries which are kind of like on you know we're from certain periphery of countries in a way we need our scientists to come back and work out something you know from for our our countries definitely yeah but but an important role in any crisis art plays an important role always and cinematography as well so there is a question from Europe someone from Europe saying that the european productions in cinematography are now for the moment stopped and what do you think is going to happen first with the global industry i mean Hollywood and so on and the global productions are they also stopped when they are going to return and second do you think that's the question whether this is a chance for more national cinema and so on and I would add if I can add a question I always do that I guess the audience hates me do you think you know cinema will change after coronavirus you know how will it look like will it reflect on people how often they make a handshake or they have will everyone just make movies about the virus so maybe you can answer it in one yeah yeah no yes the the well here as well you know and I think in most part of the part of the world production has halted from from independent films to big studio films to big international movies to local tv productions it everything has been stopped and and it's going to recover of course definitely and it will recover it's going to start again you know not on the same hype that's for sure not on the same kind of this need for content you know with that horrendous word content and you know because it's where we kind of become victims of that of creating content to add to the add you know do to get into and uh and what what we what it's going to happen and this is hypothetical but I've been talking with many people about it and obviously in my experience what I'm seeing is that the things that we're going to be able to pick up or we're going to do are the things that are in our own hands that we don't depend on you know third party studios or big kind of corporations to say yes and no you know which gives us an advantage as well because it forces us to to be much more you know something that hasn't been talked about or that there's no longer a term of discussion because actors no longer talk about an artistic journey you know the the artistic journey something that is like from another time right now is about creating content but the situation right now will not be about creating content will be about an artistic journey because the consequences of it will not be as glamorous will not be as as extreme as they used to be it's going to be a yes productions that that you can have in your own hands that you can they do them and a little bit what what Bong Joon who was was talking about when he did the parasite he said I wanted to do a film about South Korea and about Seoul and about the neighborhood you know about these two neighborhoods and I wanted to do this and then I realized that you know this whole reaction that it happened in the world and everyone watching it I realized we live in the same country and which is capitalism and that is something that that definitely with with local films with local stories I mean it's been said many times if you want to be universal be local you know and nowadays we have to engage with our context because we have so much things to say I have a lot of things to say about in my in my language you know I have this is where I where I expand I don't want to waste my time like trying to follow a route of of of somebody else you know it's already there that I'm just filling in the hole or the void of somewhere that somebody's leaving behind or something I wanted to do stuff in my in my in my own place and and because I want to have an artistic journey I really wanted to I mean I I want to have that that my life has an artistic consequence I would hope that and so I think that's more where it's kind of heading and maybe the films are going to be much more personal after this much more even even though good films already are personal no I'm very personal with our collective of course interpreting a point of view that is very personal we are gonna go into into wanting to know wanting to hear what what a person from Sarajevo feels in in this whole craziness rather than hearing what the superhero feels about all this crazy because a superhero is we can come up with with dialogues for the superhero right now and and they'll be okay you know they'll be fine yeah yeah this this reminds me of of your own movie Chico Rotes uh uh didn't pronounce it well yes yes we are yes exactly we are I think I also pronounce your name okay no yes that's the Yugoslav-Mexican connection which we were discussing in Ludrovnik no it reminded me it reminded me of your movie because it's also you know what you said about the parasite you know that we live in one country which is called capitalism we can see it in your movie as well which is interestingly not set on the background of an earthquake and it deals with a group of people who are you know the lowest state of society the excluded exploited and forgotten parts of society and it shows how resilient these people actually are and it's also a very personal movie so maybe I'll come to the one of the last questions and which is connected to this so the question is Gael what about the poor people in Mexico the the ones that can't quarantine what do you think that we all the ones who have it easier should do for them or what we could do for those people and I think it's a really good yeah yes absolutely um of course it is a very it spans on many levels the the question and and it is very complex because this is something that has been taken into account definitely by this government strong and they've been trying to you know talk about it and it is a very difficult language to talk about ambiguities in in the social structures because uh you know politics is not made of ambiguities in a way especially nowadays and and in a way we you know this conversation has been has been has been strong has been actually quite you know very high highly strong in certain areas but there is a feeling that that we can say that you know in in Mexico maybe five percent and maybe I'm being too either too generous or too small with my my my account and five percent of the of the houses in Mexico are are not good places to be quarantined and maybe they aren't maybe lack of lack of elemental you know social necessities are not there one of them being loved for example one of them being you know this is something that because of the whole economic strain and the and the lack of certain things maybe love is something that is a is a privilege to have you know it's something that if it's there wow it's an accident but the norm would be that the that it doesn't maybe it doesn't exist maybe it is it is a very violent place to be and and and this I'm speaking I've got to say I'm speaking from my privilege I mean completely and and I never you know I never want to you know never want to say that I know exactly what's going on you know it is something that but we we we know it we know we know we know that can happen we know that those that's the the things that are at play you know that's the situation and this is what we're the cards we're dealing with and this is this is a very very interesting you know concept to also take into account into this how to deal socially with this pandemic and fortunately I've got to say the Mexican government has and many governments in Latin America as well with the exception of Brazil and have talked about you know the the violent consequences or the the extra consequences that that that this can can lead to which is men rather than working doing domestic work for example helping out you know people that are in strong violent surroundings in the sense as well to to to be aware of this you know and and so so it's been talked about and and and I think here where where people have most to say about this is I mean the people that have more things to say about all this are definitely the scientists the profession you know the the doctors and the people that that they are into these institutions that are actually talking about this and it's great that they're talking about this as well because if not it would be I mean you know it's it is not the same recipe for what Europe in general needs that what Mexico or Latin America means there's a whole different thing and and it is important to always taking that into account and I've got to say but from our privilege what we've been doing is helping the small businesses and the small you know in a small communities also what we with new ways you know with the social media and everything we've been able to also reach certain places that are not in our community in a very small community that we can help out all the people and that's something that's been happening that's been there maybe later in the week or something I'll send you a lot of links and things where people can see what people in Mexico are doing I'll try to include our in other parts of Latin America as well but I'll try to include certain organizations certain things that people are putting together in order to to help other people especially economically and also in the directly into the health situation I think that would be great and we at the M25 would be happy to share it we also had some proposals recently mainly on the European level in which way to invest and use the existing institutions to provide security and some minimal wages or universal basic income to Europeans who are now suffering because my big fear is that you know the number of people who will die and suffer from the consequences of coronavirus are much higher than coronavirus itself you know the years to come the global recession and so on but since we have to conclude very soon maybe we should end in a kind of more hopeful way maybe something about love what do you think Arthur Rembaugh famously said that love has to be reinvented I do you think that this crisis global crisis will lead also to a reinvention of love a reinvention in a better way no but on a very elemental and kind of straightforward appreciation love nowadays can also be interpreted as work like what you mentioned in your book what is your name in English? Radicality of Love I think that's what Radicality of Love yes Radicality of Love and the Radicality of Love which is a great title great thanks man yeah what you mentioned there which you also mentioned and you paraphrase a lot and you bring in Colombo a lot into the mix because definitely it is I mean the argument that love is work is hard work it is something that we're all extremely because be it that we're with a person we love a lot and we've been having problems we've been having a great time right now it is a test of work you know and a lot of work and a lot of manual work also and domestic work and so it is an interesting thing that I think everybody is experiencing and obviously everybody is experiencing at its maximum level you know like oh I know so this is something that will definitely change before love used to be this kind of immediate thing that either was there or wasn't but love is not something sorry work is not something that is included in this whole thing or maybe it's included in both therapeutic kind of couple therapies kind of you know conversations or self-help conversations or whatever but the but really like right now we're feeling the grudge of it and the and the difficulty of it and in a way it is fantastic I find it really really great because it is it it puts you know it puts it to the test in a sense and it puts us to a test of like saying of course the same way that we cannot be geographically in some other place all the time right now we have to deal with our love consequences and and the hard work that it is I don't know what actually in on another episode I will ask you what colantai would have thought about this time wow that's that that's a tough question but but I'm really yeah I pleasantly surprised that you actually brought alexandra colantai in I think no one would have expected that the two of us would speak about colantai connected to a virus uh uh what she would bring in I think you you you put it beautifully you know it's not just that the love at home which now you know it's you can it's not just you fall in love and everything is great and then the next day you go to a disco or to another country find someone else go on tinder and so on I mean I don't even know how tinder and grinder are now being used in time of isolate probably as well but you know she was warning about against this commodification of love you know that love becomes a kind of product on the free market and the invisible hand will somehow bring you to the perfect partner and so on but I think today as you said you know first work at home because we are more with our beloved ones than than than usually which can also sometimes create problems as you said and the figures of rising domestic violence are actually very boring on the other hand I mean love the function of love because colantai was also writing about it the function of love in society because those who are saving us now they show a sort of really unconditional love you know the doctors the medical sisters even the shop assistants I mean they don't love these jobs of course they would rather not do it I guess they have to do it to survive but this is a work which is a work of care for the rest of society the same as postman waste collectors you know they are the ones who are now at least in Europe which is current time they are the ones which are on streets and this is a kind of not only care but love for the for the whole society I mean some of them are forced to do it but I think they are doing a very big job for the whole society so yes I hope that we will redefine love I hope we will see each other soon of course please please let's do it and then when you said that nobody would expect that colantai would come into this discussion also you know she was she was the first Soviet Union ambassador here in Mexico I didn't know that but at least she didn't end up like another guy who went to Mexico right exactly thanks a lot Gaelle thanks everyone for watching us as we announced after this show we will show an exclusive conversation with the one and only Noam Chomsky you will take a break of we will take a break of half an hour and then you can find it on the dm25 youtube channel make some popcorn make love watch some movies by by Gaelle blindness or signs of sleep I mean there are so many beautiful I would suggest signs of sleep because it's about self-isolation you know two people in love in the room and imagination artistic creation thanks a lot Gaelle no thank you man it's such a privilege thank you and hope to see you soon again in summer who knows thank you so much bye