 No, if it's delayed or not, let's try right there. Yeah. Well, it'll be like, well, there's no video. I'm like, we're not ready yet. It'll be delayed like three or four seconds usually. Oh, so that's, you know, it's watchable. That's, that's for my own protection in case I just start swearing. She's going to yell out in the background. You're, it's, it's not the same. It's throwing me off. Oh, you did tweet it out. Okay, perfect. I auto tweeted it. Although I didn't forgot to at-reply everybody. I apologize for that. I'm so bad at Twitter sometimes. This is probably a good time to admit I was not following my own show until just right now. Now I am. Problem solved. Problem solved. Mom, please mute that. Ah, gotta wait for that to happen. Get some headphones. Mom, come on. Um, tell her that I'm very jealous of you being able to eat your pie. Uh, you don't have to. She can hear you now. Um, in three seconds anyway. We're really jealous of you being able to eat your mom's pie. What flavor is it, by the way? Oh, actually, we'll see. So you should just wear headphones, mom, because you won't be able to hear anybody but me. That would be a horrible experience. So Tom said he is jealous of the pie. I feel like, okay, since we're talking about baking, if you guys don't mind, because my son knew that I was doing the show and he wants me to show off his cookies that he made. Oh, cool. So I said I would if I had a chance. Oh my gosh, those are great. That's an amazing thing. Yes, those are dots on those things. Yes, they are dots and sprinkles and frosting. And he literally went out and left them in front of me, which is probably a dangerous thing to do. He did a good job. Wow. And then when he comes back, you can be like, no, you never left them. They weren't here. They weren't over here. I sent them to my friends on the show. They were the internet. They were web cookies. Exactly. What is your Twitter handle? Do you have probably? At Jolly Roger. OK. I like that Sarah's mom says, oh, Tom, exactly the way Sarah does. As opposed to the way I say it. Oh, Tom. That should be the playoff music, you know, like when you play them off. That should be one of our t-shirts. But this one we won't get. We won't get into any kind of as cap or BMI issue. Yeah. Yeah, gotcha. All right, y'all ready? Yeah, yes. Yes, OK. Sarah, you've got the the pre-roll. OK, I will count you in. Sounds good. Three, two. Daily Tech News Show is powered by you to find out more head to dailytechnewshow.com slash supports. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, December 22nd, twenty seventeen from DTS headquarters in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Santa Rosa, California, where it's quite cold, actually, this time of year. I'm Sarah Lane. And joining us today, we have a huge panel for our last live show of the year. Very excited to have tech expert, Amber Mack, alongside Amber. How's it going? I am doing great. I am in Delray Beach, Florida, and it is really, really warm here, which is lovely. It's good to escape Canada this time of year. Now, it's warm relative to Canada. Is it warm for Floridians? You know what? I actually talked to the Floridian on the beach today and they said, oh, it's a little chilly and it's 80 degrees. I don't understand that. I was wondering about that. Senior editor from CNET, Ashley Esqueda is here as well. Ashley, good to have you. Hello, friends. Good to be back. We are going to have a good time talking about Tesla with Ashley in a few minutes. Journalist Annie Gauss is back as well. Annie, how have you been? Good. I'm in Tropical San Francisco, where it's about 50 degrees right now. Yeah, which is warm for San Francisco. Right. Falling. And as every Friday, we have Mr. Len Peralta alongside. Len, are you ready to draw this momentous panel? This is going to be pretty interesting. It is the last one of the year. So I feel like I have to come up with something good. Hopefully. All right. Well, I can't wait to see what you've got. Roger Chang is our producer. He's alongside as well. Roger, are you cold, warm in between? I am comfortable. You look comfortable. Yeah, you do. Wait. I believe you. Is that a back-handed compliment to tell someone they look comfortable? No, it's better than saying you look uncomfortable. I love that. Are you tired? You look tired. So what is my favorite one? Well, welcome everyone to our third roundtable show. If you're not familiar, once a month, we expand the regular show into a full-fledged roundtable discussion. So instead of half hour of Sarah and me and a co-contributor covering the headlines of the day, we do a full hour of meaty discussion with Sarah, myself and our guests. While all of our topics cover the news of the day in technology, we will still start with a quick look at the top stories today. Edward Snowden's Freedom of the Press Foundation has released Haven, an open-source Android app designed to mimic a physical security system. So Haven uses the phones, cameras, microphones and accelerometers to monitor for motion or sound. So let's say you are a very paranoid person and you think someone could enter your hotel room while you're away. You could have Haven running on a phone that you leave in the room. Then it could send pictures and sound clips of anybody who came into your room to your primary phone that you'd have with you. The app uses most of the phone's light sensor to trigger an alert if the room goes dark or a flashlight is engaged. Great for catching samples. Bioptics, a maker of diagnostic machinery for the biotech industry announced in October that it would move out of the biotech space and develop a blockchain operation, renaming itself Riot Blockchain. This has been a move that hundreds of companies have been making and seeing their stock prices rise as a result. Most recent example being Long Island Ice Tea Company, which captured a lot of people's attention because it really sounded like they were just renaming themselves Long Blockchain Corp. But they're doing the same thing. They're becoming a blockchain company. And I suppose some people will miss their iced tea. Alphabet announced that Eric Schmidt will step down as its executive chairman and transition to a technical advisor role. He will continue to serve on the company's board, though. Schmidt joined Google as CEO way back in 2001 and became its executive chairman 10 years later, keeping that role, even when Google created Alphabet back in 2015. Speaking of Bitcoin, the average price fell below $11,000 Friday. That's down 44% for the record high of $19,800 on Sunday. Bitcoin Marketplace Coinbase even had to temporarily disable buying and selling on Friday because of the surge. Amazon has acquired wireless security camera, Blink, which raised $1 million on Kickstarter back in 2015. They were actually going for about $200,000 and raised a lot more because people were interested. Blink recently released the Blink video doorbell, and Amazon makes its own cloud cam, which is part of Amazon Key, its secure home delivery service for Prime members. And Huawei has signed an AI mobile agreement with Baidu. Huawei announced it has signed the agreement to build an open mobile artificial intelligence ecosystem. The system will use Huawei's high AI platform and neural network processing unit and Baidu's paddle paddle deep learning framework and Baidu Brain. All right, that's a look at the top stories. Let's kick off our first discussion topic, Sarah. Let's do it. Amber, Mac, we're going to start with you. We have all of our panelists that sort of brought their discussion topics to the show. And Amber, I know that you had a story that you shared with us earlier about how bots can be problematic and particularly during the holiday season. Yeah, absolutely. I know there are fellow parents who are watching right now or listening and perhaps they've gone to find fingerlings, which is one of the hottest toys of the holiday season. Now, typically what we have to worry about is other people online who are shopping, who are buying up all the inventory. But now in 2017, we actually have to worry about bots who are buying up all the inventory and they are reselling many of these products on other sites. Like eBay, I know there's an example of fingerlings, which are just about 30 or 40 dollars going for a thousand dollars on eBay. So bots are to blame for some sad children on Christmas Day morning. So sad parents, right? Because you could still buy the fingerlings, but you have to pay way more than you should. That is a very good point. The obvious question is, OK, we have stuff like CAPTCHAs or confirming your email address is our online stores just not set up properly. Is would that be the answer for stuff like this to save Christmas? Well, the truth is there is not really too much they can do. And I mean, this isn't just an issue for the retail industry. You've probably heard the stories about different concert organizers that are organizing concerts and then bots and individuals are actually buying up all of the tickets and reselling these tickets. So bots can be to blame for some of that as well. You try to see Ed Sheeran and instead of being maybe one hundred and fifty dollars, it could be fifteen hundred dollars a ticket. So the truth is in many cases, there's nothing necessarily illegal about what is happening because they're going through the same process of buying the product, but they're just automating it with the use of bots. So it's much easier to buy that many items. So I think at the end of the day, there will be some type of regulation that could clamp down on this. And I know right now in the UK, for example, they're trying to do this when it comes to bots buying concert tickets. So I think it will happen. But as for this Christmas, it may be a little too late for some of the kids. I, you know, I think about this and the the immediate response I think we all have is that this is unfair. You know, if I want to buy concert ticket, if I want to buy a fingerling, if I want to get a ticket to a Comic Con or something, I want to know that I have the same shot as everybody else. And if someone's using a bot for whatever purpose, that that's not something that most people can do and that feels unfair. But on the other side, the only reason that the bots are profitable is that they can get more money for the thing they're selling. So I I'm not sure that I'm convinced by what I'm about to say, but wouldn't it make sense to just raise the prices on things so that they would just sell to people who would pay whatever would be paid by the bot buyers? Like if it's not profitable to resell it is what I'm saying. Then there'd be no incentive to do the bots. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think there's going to be incentive around the holidays, but beyond that, it's really hard to say. We always see these hot Christmas items and they tend to be hot for a few weeks. And then after a month or two, you can get them in store for regular prices. So I'm not sure raising the prices is necessarily the answer. And the truth is, Tom, I really in some ways agree with what you're saying. I think of when I was a child and I really wanted a cabbage patch kid, they were really hard to find. My mom had to buy a fake knockoff with cheesy pink hair. I was devastated. I think many kids just have to face this, unfortunately. So you may not get your hot holiday item. Eventually, like I said, I think regulations will plant but down on this a little bit. But I don't think there's too much that can be done. So it may lead to a bit of disappointment, but unfortunately, that's just the world we live in. We just can't have nice things like bots anymore. It just seems to me that there's got to be some way, you know, if you if you have to go through a certain amount of steps and enter your credit card, you know, you know, check a box, whatever you got to do. There must be some way, some technology, and maybe it's in use. Maybe it needs to be thought up by somebody that would that would throw a bot off. And I know that that's what capture used to be for. I guess it doesn't work anymore, although it, you know, confuses me half the time. But but something where it's like, OK, this isn't a human. This whole transaction now has been has been shelved. What about giving bots something to identify? That would be very hard for them to do, but very easy for humans. So like, what if they were to play a short, like five second video clip of somebody like frowning and then you pick the emotion? Like, maybe it's like, identify this human emotion is occurring right here. Yeah, I mean, actually, speaking of Bitcoin, I was signing up for a Bitcoin wallet the other day. And it was anyway, I had to, you know, go through lots of hoops to sort of prove that I was a human. And one of them was it was the square and there was like a little puzzle piece inside the square and I had to use it. Let's sort of, you know, kind of a ruler to line them up. Basically, and it was even took me a minute to be like, what am I supposed to do here? And then I got it. But it was it was sort of this precision thing that it would have been very difficult to have a bot run some sort of a script that would get past that. So those seem like innovations that should clamp down on these problems. Yeah, I would think in some cases that they would be able to clamp down on some of those problems if, like you said, there was some type of unique identification that you had to do, like a human emotion or whatever it might be. I think the only issue could be the frustration from the individuals who are legitimately trying to buy this product in the sense as I'm sure they could figure out what human emotion it might be. But just adding those layers, I'm not sure the retailers will necessarily want to do that because for them, I mean, at the end of the day, do they really care? I mean, if they're selling product, they're selling product. I'd like to believe who's buying it. But I doubt that they do. They want these things to sell out. They want them to go to eBay. That's how they drive the news cycle that continues to feed this beast. So I don't see them doing that because it limits the experience from the consumer. And also there's so many, let's say, like artists or shows or products that love having, like you said, their name in the news cycle as this is a very hard to find item because bots are now selling it out. Like they also are not going to be, they don't care if it gets into the hands of consumers or not. Like they've already made their cut. So at the end of the day, it's like there's no incentive for there's incentive for us as consumers, but there's no incentive for incentive for anybody who could actually fix the problem to fix the problem. Absolutely. I mean, it's interesting when we talk about concerts and issues with bots when it comes to concerts, I watched a really great documentary that talked about tracking down someone who was using bots to buy concert tickets and it turned out it took months and months of investigation for the police department to actually track him down to figure out what he was doing to find out that there was one reason just one tiny reason that it was illegal in terms of what he was doing. But you're talking thousands and thousands of hours in terms of time from law enforcement officials. So at the end of the day, it's just hard to track these people. And I think that's another issue. Fingerlings just came out a few months ago. They're already pretty hot in a month. Like I said, they may not be as hot anymore. So again, I just feel like this is the cycle that we're in right now. Yeah, I feel like the two things against you are eBay has variable pricing, something that sells for a certain price now because it's in hot demand for the holidays can sell for a lower price later, whereas retail just doesn't work like that in the modern world. And so it would be hard for retailers to I mean, it wouldn't be hard. It would be extraordinarily unpopular for retailers to jack up their prices at the holidays and then lower them later, right? I mean, they could do things, certain things like sales and whatnot, but that's just not something they can compete with because people think of them differently. And then the other side, like you mentioned, Amber is friction. No merchant wants to add friction to the purchase process. I had to log into Discord on a new machine the other day, and it took me like 20 minutes to get through the recapture where it says like, pick all the scenes that have street signs in them. Keep picking until all the street signs are gone. And I was like, I mean, you could definitely stop a bot. You could almost stop me from signing in at that point because I was so tired of it. But but you don't want to do that if you're a merchant, you want to get people through the checkout process as fast as possible. Absolutely. And I think the only answer to all of this when it comes to parents, individuals trying to buy these gifts is to do something that's actually very human and not techie at all, which is to talk to your kids and explain the situation and say, hey, in two or three weeks, I'm going to be able to buy you that. In the meantime, you're getting this. And I think just being rational and and letting them know in terms of the world that we live in today is probably the best solution and no cabbage patch kids with pink hair because the fake stuff never works. And if you can't do that, just blame it on Santa. Just be like, oh, Santa, I'll let you down this year, kid. I don't know what to tell you. Santa just got tired and didn't come. Why are you so popular? What what what is it about fingerlings? Is it because they're hard to get? Like why? You know, it's the same as every year. Yeah, there's last year's hatchibles. Like it's there's always this like kind of mid-range product that for some reason kids latch on to because of, you know, YouTube videos or unboxings or whatever it is. And you don't really interested to see if this kind of like trend actually decreases. Did you guys all see that article about how in cord cut homes kids are seeing like hundreds of hours less in ads per year? Yeah, like this is a really interesting. Yeah, like because yeah, people watching Netflix, they're like kids are actually seeing like hundreds of hours less of ads every year. And I almost wonder if in the future we'll start seeing this sort of like crazy. Well, I don't know. They're probably drum it up on like YouTube or something. But like this is like where it kind of comes from. As far as like as I've seen, it's always like, oh, it's this like hot thing on YouTube and then every case I saw this on YouTube. But I really want it because this streamer had one and it was awesome. It's just weird. It's a little monkey that lives on your finger. Like who who needs this? Like, I don't know. There's two things I'll say about it is you're exactly right. Fingerlings is just a tiny little monkey that attaches to your finger. Incidentally, I actually bought my eight year old one when it first came out. And I think he played with it for all of five minutes. Whereas I think the Hatchimals last year at least had some interesting science behind it took time, right? It took time. Yeah, you know, there was there was thought put into it. But I would just say for parents who are listening, who want to get fingerlings, literally, this is like a five minute win with kids because after that, they're never going to play with it again. So it's one of those toys that I think is overrated for the holiday season and just not that interesting for kids beyond just a few minutes of play. Go to those quarter machines at CVS or Rite Aid or whatever, big lots and get those little gooey ones that get stuck on your fingers like little monsters. This is a spend five dollars on that. You get a bunch of them. You can have one for every finger. Yeah, I mean, and the interesting thing when you talk about advertising in kids, one of the things I found is that my son is actually exposed to much more in terms of advertisements, particularly from kids who are influencers in the YouTube space. So I know there are many kids who are making hundreds of thousands of dollars unboxing products. So he is constantly watching kids who are playing the latest video games. They get them before anyone else. They get the toys before anyone else. It's almost worse, at least when it was on TV, you could probably get it in the store, but that's not the case anymore. Yeah. Annie, I felt like every time we brought up monkeys on a finger that you got really excited. I have to admit, I did not know that fingerlings existed prior to this conversation. And my biggest takeaway is that I'd really like to know who is the individual that is paying $5,000 from one of those. Can we find that person? Who are they? The rich and lazy parents. Well, you know, there's always those individuals. I remember when, I mean, our fidget spinners still big, because at the high point, there were a lot of people that were just cornering the market and selling like huge, like 100 box, like a lot of 100 on eBay. Like, oh man, you can make your money back overnight by selling these to stupid kids for 50 cents, you know, over markup. And it was just, I remember Amber, you know, you and I both, you know, we're part of the cabbage patch hype. I don't know if everybody else did. No, my mom did too. My mom stood in line, I think for like eight hours at a Sears when I was a child and got me one, but she was like, this is the only. She told me later in my life, she's like, I never did that again, because it was just, it was a nightmare. It was the worst thing. People were women were fighting over these toys. Like some men were like getting into fist fights. Like it was really bad. I mean, speaking of YouTube, you can look up cabbage patch kid fights. You can in stores. And I mean, it's it's really, it's the first, at least for me as a kid, it was the first time I remember being like, this is a really big deal. This is a status symbol for a child really want this. Yeah, there you go. Right. And we don't know why my mom's probably in there somewhere. Oh, it's in Miami. Nevermind. Yeah. I mean, I want to say that my experience also has been that sometimes it's the parents who are more obsessed with getting the product than the kid. I think most kids are fairly reasonable and will be OK if maybe they have a replacement or something different. But the parents get a little carried away with this, which is why I think these products end up on eBay and there is demand for them and well beyond what people should be paying. I think it's probably a combination of what you were just saying. Like it's not only a status symbol for the kid. It's also a status symbol for the parent to put up on Instagram and be like, look at what I got my kid. I found one like I'm parent of the year and such a weird that's such a weird competitive thing that happens on like Instagram, especially on like Pinterest and, you know, stuff like that. But it's like that I think it's a combination of what you were saying, Sarah, about like these these kids who are influencers on YouTube and, you know, that and also this sort of ultra competitiveness for parents to be this like, you know, these like parent of the year. Like, oh, my God, you got your kid a finger laying like I did it. I'm the greatest like a plus mom hashtag a plus mom. Like, yeah, it's problematic. Right. Yeah, I remember not getting Star Wars figures in 1977 because they they weren't there. My parents gave us a piece of paper that said we ordered you Star Wars figures, but they haven't come yet because Kenner was was just handing out like IOUs for them because so many people wanted them, but they weren't they hadn't produced them in the proper amounts yet. That's amazing. All right. Well, let's check in now with Ashley's topic for today's show. Tesla Elon Musk had a pretty big year, a lot of ups, a lot of downs, right? Yeah, a lot of ups, a lot of downs. He's loading his roadster onto a onto the freaking Falcon rocket, the heavy rocket right now. Like there was a picture of it that came out, I guess, this morning. He's sending his Tesla 2020 roadster into outer space like just like Elon Musk does as you do. If you own the company, you can you could just waste one into space, I guess. Yeah, you just do whatever you want and launch your cars into space, I guess. To be fair, if I was Elon Musk, I'd probably do the same thing. So, yeah, like they started off the year with the Gigafactory opening up and not officially opening, but producing mass producing battery cells. And so that was a good thing. But it still like wasn't enough production wise, like bottlenecking affected the Model 3, which we saw finally like the official production model unveiled in July, which was really cool because I preordered one. So full disclosure, I'm still waiting. And and then but then they had some downs like the Model X got recalled. There were 11,000 of them that had these second seat problems. They could become dislodged in an accident, which seems pretty bad. And then it seems like it seems like a modular feature you don't want in a car. And then and then consumer reports ended up they ended up being one of the least reliable like cars on their list. And then Tesla said, oh, well, we've made a lot of improvements between the time you polled everybody for this and the time that this actually came out. So we promise you it's better. And but then and then at the end of the year, they had like these crazy wins with the Tesla Semi, which was like amazing. And UPS put it in order for a whole bunch of them. And and then the Roadster, they had they completely designed this thing like without anybody knowing about it and just wheeled it out. And it's a ridiculous car and and really, really cool. It's just going to take a while to get here. So yeah, it was like it was a crazy kind of year for them. And I'm really curious to see like sort of, especially like with Model 3, it's going to be really interesting to see if they can actually get up to the production estimates that they were hoping for in 2018. I don't know. I really genuinely don't know. I preordered a Model 3, but I couldn't tell you if I was going to get it in the delivery window that I have right now or if it's going to get delayed again. I mean, what is your delivery window? Is it like a month? Is it three years? What I was I was a day one preorder. So and before the event, so it was on my birthday. And I was like, I'm going to preorder myself a car. And so I went down to the Tesla store and preordered myself a Model 3 on March 21st of 2016. And then my original delivery window was I believe it was October through December. And now it's no it's December through February. Huh? What if they communicated to you like throughout this process? I mean, do they just keep kind of emailing you saying like? Interestingly enough, like I have only gotten one official email from Tesla about the car and like about my preorder. So it was just on November 1st. We got this email that said, hey, we have some production issues we're delaying the delivery window. But we a lot of people I think thought it was going to get delayed by a lot. I was thinking at least one quarter, but it actually only moved forward a month. So I sorry, I misspoke earlier. My original delivery window was November to January. It is now December to February. So and now they're delivering to owners, preexisting owners that are not employees of Tesla or SpaceX. So it'll be interesting to see when they start actually making deliveries to non existing Tesla owners, which would be me. And then beyond that, that's also the the long range production model that upgraded with all the premium stuff. And then they're going to go to the standard range. So I'm not sure how far out those people will get pushed. But I'm very curious to see like what they end up doing because it does seem like they've increased production. But at the same point, I mean, I think we've all seen how many times Tesla like kind of over promises and then under delivers. So I'm I'm sort of a cautious optimist about it. What's going to happen with the preorders of all of the trucks? Because I mean, you you hear about all of these large corporations who have put in these massive preorders. I'm just curious what's going to happen with those orders and their expectations is Tesla going to be able to fulfill that? I mean, man, I hope so because that's going to not be a great thing for them if they they miss those like really big delivery windows for companies who literally specialize in delivery. So I I think they're probably hedging their bets a little bit. I want to say if I'm not mistaken, they actually ended up raising the preorder price because so many people started preordering the semis that they were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we have to make this like more expensive for people to just get in on the ground floor and be guaranteed one. But yeah, I am it's going to be really interesting. I mean, that Gigafactory has to be running on all. So it's really got to be pump it out batteries on every level and doing everything it possibly can do without production bottlenecks to make those trucks. So I just could not say. It was one Tesla the first couple of years with the first year. Well, I don't know, 10 years now because it's so so innovative. You know, the cars were, you know, go to 060 in like a millisecond and you've got the you got an iPad and the dash and and they're beautiful and they drive so nicely and they're a status symbol again. Tesla has been kind of running on those fumes for a while now. Yeah. And yes, they make beautiful vehicles. And and when they work well, they work really well. But incumbent manufacturers are starting to catch up to a lot of this technology. And when you mentioned something like the Tesla Semi where a business might buy four thousand of them in one fell swoop. It's like you're going to need to meet demand or you're going to seem like a company that doesn't have a good business model even if you have a good tech model. And so, you know, it's it's sort of like I think Tesla has gotten a pass, you know, in some of its earnings reports where it's like, well, you know, they're they're reinventing the wheel. You know, they're going to be that sort of thing and are going to be less, I think. Forgiving, forgiving, yeah. I think that has to do with the availability of the cars like coming out to mass production. So my big question is, you know, one of the things Tesla has struggled with this last year was Model S owners and Model X owners waiting months for parts to repair their cars. So if they get re-rendered or if they get, you know, they have to have something repaired in a body shop. It was taking them sometimes months to get their cars repaired. And some people who have, you know, say a Model X, that's a, you know, $120,000 car at the top. Then like you would be able to afford a, you know, a suitable rental for however long it took. Like you would probably be able to afford it for somebody who's buying a $35,000 Model 3. Like that's not necessarily the case and they can't wait that long for repairs. So I'm very curious to see how the masses handle things like delays if they do occur. I know that I wouldn't be too thrilled about it. I think you bring up a very interesting point because really, you know, automotive sales isn't just selling the automobile, it's the support, right? It's bringing it in when you need to bring it in. But it's also ensuring that the customer is as happy with the product even, you know, even two, three years down the line because people have expectations from a car manufacturer that they will be there, whether it's supply and parts, knowledgeable staff that can tell you, well, it's going to cost you this much. That's just what you need and also just general availability of being able to get someone on the other of the phone that can give you information that will drive you up the wall. Yeah, this is like a situation where if my Model 3 breaks down, I have to take it to Tesla. Like I have to have a Tesla service location. Like I can't just take it to my local mechanic, at least not yet. And it's one thing if you disappoint consumers and you go on a marketing push to combat the negative press. It's a whole different thing when you've disappointed UPS and your enterprise level contract has been violated in some way. Like Tesla had to be making assurances to these companies that have bought them. And even so, these companies are buying them in the hundreds. These are test buys. Like we'll buy a few hundred. I think is the most right? UPS bought one fifty. And it strikes me too. I mean, if you think about the purchases of the Semi and you think about the trickle effect of those products going into the marketplace and what they're going to have on individuals. Like, you know, you think about the new Tesla cars. And yes, if, you know, someone who is in the, you know, middle class or upper middle class or upper class isn't able to get their car. That's one thing. But what about a truck driver who needs to be trained on a new Semi and the training is scheduled and maybe they're going to lose their job? I mean, it just feels like it's such a much bigger scale in terms of the issues that could arise because of this. And I just feel like that's one of the stories that I would love to hear more about. I mean, what are that? What's the impact of that going to have on not just the individual companies, but the transportation industry in general, once these trucks actually hit the road? So it's going to be an interesting few years. Yeah. The bigger Tesla gets the less forgiving its customers are going to be. And I because there will just be more customers just by by attrition. Like it's there will be less satisfaction with problems. There will be more problems because there are more cars and trucks. And so I am very curious as well to see how this all kind of rolls out. And and also I'm very curious to see I think the Model 3 roll out next year will kind of tell a tale for better or for worse. Like we're going to kind of know like if they can do that. But I mean, if I could give any advice to Elon Musk, it would be like under promise over deliver, right? Like that's that's what you want to do. That's the opposite of what Tesla has always done. And if you if you step back and look at it, it's actually worked for them. Like they were promising cars. But it's early adopters, though. That's the thing. Well, what I'm what I'm wondering is is Tesla the greatest example of fake it till you make it, where they they like promised way more than they could deliver in the early days. And their promises have gotten a little less crazy over time as they started to be able to meet them. Well, yeah, as they started being held accountable for them because you have to that's my thing is like basically at the beginning, you had people who believed in them no matter what. And I think as we've gotten farther and farther into Tesla's, you know, business and their future, it's now becoming like these are just regular car owners. These are not people who worship Elon Musk. These are not people who are early investors in Tesla. You know what I mean? Like they're not evangelical the way that somebody who bought an original Roadster or one of the first model S's would have been. Yeah, it's a little bit. Sorry, Roger, go ahead. Oh, no, I was just saying, like, you know, they're no longer the only game in town either. I mean, other companies are starting to put their their footprint in it. And fleet sales, I mean, that's an entirely different level of customer customer support versus, you know, a standard consumer product. And so I mean, fleet sales are something where other companies have been developing electric semis. They just aren't as good at the height machine as Tesla. Right. Yeah. They didn't have a roadster 2.0 that can kill the quarter mile in under eight seconds inside it. That's I mean, that's like, I mean, if you want to really promote your your semi, your electric semi, that's a good way to do it. I think Tesla aside so much of kind of the belief in the Tesla vision has to do with Elon Musk. I mean, he's putting rockets in space. Yeah, he's, you know, he's creating a guy. Yeah. And and and sure, a lot of the stuff he says may not come to fruition, but he seems to be pretty, you know, committed to some of these, you know, the Hyperloop project and the boring company. And and, you know, he's a real visionary. And I think that in the way that other visionaries sometimes can be they can be forgiven for certain missteps. He's the kind of person that a lot of us, I want to believe that all these crazy things are going to happen and make them happen. And he's going to be able to skirt regulation that's kept other companies from making these things happen. So Tesla is sort of part of that dream, in a way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so much of Tesla's presence just in it is is is Elon Musk. I mean, it's like it seems like every time that there's a negative news cycle about Tesla, Elon Musk will make some like crazy announcement that like everybody, you know, like, I'm going to shoot myself into space, like, or, you know, whatever the last thing was. And it does seem like there's like so much of Tesla's success and tied to this cult of personality around Elon Musk. And I wonder if that is going to still be relevant. And, you know, in 2018 and beyond as these cars become, you know, come to more people. Yeah. The Elon. You don't necessarily, as you said, Sarah, don't don't necessarily worship him as a visionary or an individual. Yeah. I think as long as he keeps racking up more wins than losses, yes, the answer will be yes. But it's going to be interesting. You know, it reminds me, I know this is a much smaller scale, but it reminds me of the the smartphone industry. And if you think about the iPhone for so long, you know, we all believed in Steve Jobs, we all believed in the iPhone. We thought that was going to be the smartphone. So much hype about it. And then as you look back, I mean, it's only been just over 10 years. And you think about today and all the other smartphone manufacturers in the market, many of them make better phones, perhaps even than the iPhone. And just if we look at today's economy and the pace at which we're accelerating, I just think in five years, we could be having such a different conversation. And it's sort of it's an interesting time, I think, in business today, because you just don't know there are no guarantees. Yeah, as everybody starts catching up to Tesla, this will be the biggest test of the quality of what they make and how much people are willing to forgive if there are any problems. Like they can't have these like, you know, oh, we're recalling, we're doing a voluntary recall on this this year. And then the year before it's some other thing. And like you just they can't do that. Like it as as people start catching up, you're going to people are going to be less forgiving because there are other options out there. They're the fastest car on an empty road. And other cars are coming. Absolutely. All right. Sarah, let's let's check in with Annie's topic now. Yeah, Annie. So, um, so we've we we laugh at this point on DTNS about how much we talk about what Facebook's doing. Because they roll out some new innovation every day. But let's talk a little bit about new image recognition tools and and and what that means for for all of us. Yes. So, um, as I'm sure you guys, you know, said that I read this week, Facebook has added is adding a slate of new tool that will that the existing facial recognition technology that they've had for a while. I mean, they've had they've been using facial recognition features in some form or another for like many, many years since, you know, 2010, I think I first started reading about it. But what this feature does is or what it's supposed to do is notify you if somebody has uploaded a photo of you, whether you're connected to them or not, and whether you're tagged or not. So they'll the way it's supposed to work is they'll send you a notification if somebody is has uploaded a photo of you or somebody is using a photo of you and you can then engage with that person. You can untag yourself, you can confirm that it's you or, you know, if you don't want that photo to be there, for example, you can reach out to the person and I guess ask them to take it down. So what I found was so interesting about the story is that it provoked such strong reactions in the press around privacy. And the it was interesting, like along with the initial post that Facebook made about this, the blog post to kind of explaining the new tools. They also published a secondary post entitled hard questions, should I be afraid of face recognition technology that kind of acknowledged in this interesting way, you know, the sort of dystopian fears that people have about, you know, how much Facebook knows about you and, you know, they kind of like fear and paranoia that can be tied to facial recognition in general. So I was a bit surprised that, you know, that this provokes such strong reactions, given that they've had this technology this, you know, for a while. They just kind of pulled it in, pulled it into this feature. But I think, you know, I'm curious to hear what you guys think. Does this, you know, does this scare you? Does this mean what what is do you kind of buy into the fears about this or or, you know, I I don't, frankly, I mean, I just love that. They wrote a blog post that's like facial recognition. Should you be afraid? And it's like if if Koch wrote a blog post that was like added sugar, high fructose corn syrup. Should you be worried? Like it's just a weird, such a bizarre thing to write. It's like, it's just so strange. I mean, Facebook has used facial recognition in a way that I find very convenient for years now. Yeah. Upload a photo. There's 10 of us in there. It kind of gets most people's faces tag, tag, tag, tag, you know, less work for me. So when it works well, and it doesn't always work 100 percent of the time, but more often than not, I feel like it works pretty well. That's cool. But that's something that I was doing, you know, I was I was doing that. If it's an example of, let's say, somebody creating an account and using all my photos, I don't necessarily know anything about that. If somebody would point it out to me, I could report that. Yeah, I could I could I could ask other people to report it to maybe get it taken down more quickly. But that's something that I've experienced and probably some of you have as well. So anything that could be automated to cut down on that sort of stuff, which is just a hassle, you know, just kind of makes you feel kind of weird and creepy. I'm down for that. But at the same time, yeah, it's it's it's Facebook entrusting Facebook with more information than ever of you. And that is problematic because it's Facebook. Yeah, I mean, I guess the second part of this is that, you know, and I'm glad you mentioned that, Sarah, because I I have had people rip off my photos, you know, I I just looked myself up on Facebook. There are currently three accounts that are using my photos, you know, that are not me. So correct. Yes. So I'm kind of dubious. I've this this issue has long been an interesting one to me because given that, you know, people perceive Facebook as having just this vast omniscient, you know, control over society and your information. And they, you know, they know who you are, they know your photos and they have so much data. And yet why is it that they can't it's taken so long for them to implement this in the first place? And why, you know, why are there still three accounts of me, you know, that they that this technology that they say they have should be able to address? So I don't know. I mean, I don't know if it's that they don't have to have a business disincentive to, you know, take down fake accounts. I think that will change like in 2018 because they've had they've gotten so much increasing criticism over, you know, fake accounts and bots and kind of overall fraud on the network. So I'll be interested to see how well this works. Like, will I get a notification that these accounts are there? Like, maybe maybe not, you know, if I didn't look it up, I would never know they were there. So I'm part of me is kind of dubious about how, you know, is this more PR stunt than than utility? It's interesting, though. I mean, I think as it pertains to just Facebook as a platform, I think this could be a very helpful tool. And to Sarah's point, I've also had someone impersonate me and set up an account and it's a real hassle if you don't know the account exists. But what concerns me a little bit is that if you read down to the very bottom of the press release, they say that this new tool will not be available in Canada, where I'm from, and the EU. And I think it's interesting because both of those places have much stricter privacy laws than the US and other countries in the world. And so I think, you know, if we talk about specifically the Facebook platform, yes, this could be useful, but in terms of privacy beyond Facebook and knowing that Facebook has all of that data and information. And I think Sarah touched on this a little bit. Do we trust Facebook to know, you know, in Canada, for example, maybe one every out of every two people is on Facebook. If Facebook has that database to be able to identify 50 percent of our population using facial recognition, do we trust them with that information beyond just helping us deal with accounts that are impersonating us? And that's where I get a little bit concerned. Yeah, there was a story, you know, to this to this whole topic recently where Facebook said, hey, revenge porn, really bad. We want to help you. If you are worried that someone might upload a photo of you that they have access to that they shouldn't. And it's going to be really problematic for you. You upload it to us, a human will look at it, will make a note of it, will make sure that, you know, if there's anything on our network that that that looks like this will will be on your side. And then don't worry, we'll delete it from our servers. That's the sort of thing where it's like, OK, well, you don't really want to trust an algorithm to something like this. And yes, unfortunately, this is something that does happen to people. But when you add a human into anything like this, what if that human has a bad day? What if that human is a disgruntled employee? It's so so many variables here that it's just like, that's where my trust in Facebook goes away. They have too many people working there and there's there's too much risk, especially when you're talking about really sensitive information like this. Well, and this is the problem Facebook has over the years, right? Which is they have a lack of trust. Some of it is deserved and some of it isn't. But with something like revenge porn or even stopping facial recognition or stopping people from using your profile photo and using facial recognition, you want them to do both of those things. You want them to stop revenge porn from being used against you. You want them to stop fake accounts from using your image as their profile. But then the way they can do it most efficiently makes you go, well, wait a minute, what else are you going to be using that technology for? Are you going to be using it responsibly? And Facebook has a lot of work to do to convince you that they are going to do it responsibly because it is really complex. You don't know if they have been dragging their feet because of very legitimate reasons involving, you know, not any company can do every project they want to do. Anybody that's worked inside a company knows that. But at the same time, some projects get prioritized for reasons that aren't necessarily the purest. Maybe somebody delays a project and doesn't tell why they're really delaying it because it might help their other agenda. That stuff happens too. So there's a lot of questions about this. I would tend, my personal bugaboo is don't blame somebody for taking too long to do something if they finally did it. Let's give them credit for finally doing it. But at the same time, you do wonder, well, OK, was there a reason it was delayed, like you said, Annie? And it makes you uncomfortable letting them do something like facial recognition, which I honestly believe is not going to be a big deal 30 years from now. Most people are going to be like, oh, yeah, there's facial recognition. Just like there's cameras everywhere. Right. We're used to that now. It's it's almost a generational thing in that respect. I think one of the more interesting things for me is that I this is a thing that I constantly tell my family is when you use a free product, you are the product, right? So you get sold and and while I am OK with facial recognition and algorithms, I think it's fine. I don't trust Facebook with that information yet. They have not shown me any reason to be like, oh, yeah, I trust Facebook with with my facial recognition, with the tagging every single picture I've ever been in that anybody might upload to the site like so that people can see where I go, what I do. Like no, thank you. Like I don't trust Facebook has never given me a reason to trust them. It's like having a really kind of skivvy friend, right? And you know that they're not really trustworthy. Like why would you send that person your nudes to take care of? You wouldn't. You're like, you know what? You just really haven't shown me that you are a trustworthy person. And it's the same thing here with Facebook. Like they have not shown me that they are trustworthy with my data. And I feel like, yes, it might be really handy to have all my pictures sorted and, you know, be tagged and everything. Like without having to make somebody's someone on an account have to tag, you know, me and their pictures or whatever. But at the end of the day, I also don't want Facebook saying, oh, well, I see that in this picture, you are at Disneyland. And so you must love Disney. And so I'm going to sell that data to an advertiser so that you can get ads for Disney stuff. What if they give you discounts on fingerlings though? Sick fingerling discounts. I will take it. Yeah, but it's just like that's that's my problem is it's like if I were able to they say you can opt out of it and that's fine. But like what is involved in opting in? Is it just tagging pictures or much like has happened with Facebook in multiple instances, are we going to find out in the future that they have been secretly selling off your, you know, your photo recognition data for advertising purposes? Like these are the things that make me very wary about using the technology like the technology itself is fine. I think it's great. Same thing with like Amazon, right? So if you use any of their voice assistants, you you have to be able to trust them with that information. So things that are always listening, your phone, you know, if you trust that company, then it's fine. But if you are skeptical about it, like that's when people freak out. So that's why people freaked out here, because Facebook has a track record of having these problems. I think too, you know, just to pick up on your point, I don't think you can automate trust. And what I mean by that is if you think about any organization who you work with or by services from, there's always a way to be able to call them or contact them. Unless you work in the media, as all of you know, there is no way to get in touch with Facebook. When I had someone impersonating me, I had to go to a personal contact I had at Facebook. I got help. It still took six hours. But I know individuals who don't have those relationships and it will take them weeks and weeks to get anything done. And this is my main concern with Facebook. You can't automate trust if they want to have that trust in that relationship. It's great that they have these technology tools to automate these issues that they have, but they really need to beef up their customer service and their support. So they're actually individuals who are able to help people who have legitimate issues on Facebook, and they've never, ever done that. Yeah, there's also the, you know, even if for whatever reason you were like, Facebook is completely trustworthy, favorite company, no one working there would ever do me wrong. What about companies that get hacked? Happens all the time. You know, so that's the thing. It's like, you have huge, huge server firms of information. Okay, maybe the company has your best interest in mind, but they have so much of your information as soon as somebody who wants that information that you have not told them that they can have it, wants to have it, then the whole thing falls apart. And we've seen that 2017, particularly with so many companies that were supposed to be so secure. Sure, I haven't had that problem with Facebook. Doesn't mean it won't happen. I don't have, you know, I don't, I don't really trust any company, no matter how big or how powerful or how much profit, you know, they're pulling in to, to really be able to lock down information because I've never seen it happen. Right, and again, like even if, even if they don't get hacked specifically, they're still the opportunity for them to sell that data, to advertisers. And it's like, it's just, it's not enough for me, Facebook, like, make me trust you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but it's, you know, much like Google, they're so big at this point that, and people rely on Facebook so heavily, it's like, hey, maybe I don't trust Google, what am I going to do? You know, like, all of my stuff. Yeah, go use Bing, maybe. I guess, yeah, I've got an Android phone, I rely on Gmail for everything. We just all need to go back to Ask Jeeves. Well, one thing to, Jeeves is a trustworthy guy. Yeah, one thing to pay attention to is a product that I don't think is getting or project but it's not getting enough attention, which is Tim Berners-Lee's solid project at MIT. And the idea is to use a blockchain-like approach to your private information where you control it and you decide who gets to access your private information. And it's set up in such a way that you can revoke that access anytime you want. And so if your facial recognition was part of that, where you're like, OK, I'll let you use it for now. But it's set up in such a way I could take it away. That solves a lot of these problems. We hit the time limit for the first time this episode. Wow. I was like, where is that beautiful jazz music coming from? Well, our fun keyboard cat music. We were doing that. Our final discussion topic for today was chosen by the advisors that we have at patreon.com slash DTNS. And I think this is really interesting because we always talk about distractions and overuse of social networks and technology taking away from our ability to relax and causing us stress. But the topic they picked was what tech do you use to relax and unwind? Is there technology that you use when you're like, you know what? No, it's not. Maybe I maybe it is looking at Twitter, but it's not the thing that's going to get me stressed. It's the thing I use to just kind of chill out. And I started to think about this because at first, Sarah and I were talking on Slack this morning, like, what is what is that with the tech tech and why? Yeah, like how? No, it's only start stressful. I was like, I have a favorite podcaster to that are, you know, super chill. But that's just a method of delivery. The content itself isn't technical. That's just, you know, somebody putting together a nice radio show. Tom mentioned Kindle books. It's like, well, you like the book, right? Is it really the Kindle that's like chilling you out or the fact that you're getting lost in a story? This is a harder exercise than I thought it would be. I know that there are meditation apps or breathing apps or things that physically are supposed to make you feel better. I'm not using any of those on a regular basis, probably should. Twitter more and more is just a cause for alarm for me. Facebook, we just got done talking about all the issues there. It's like, I don't know. What about the rest of you? Are there other technical things that actually improve your your life and your and your heart rate? I have one that is actually pretty incredible. That I have used and I've tested a bunch of different products. But this one in particular, it's called the Muse Brain Sensing Headband. And it's a headband that you wear just on your forehead. And what you do is along with the companion app, you are supposed to basically meditate on a regular basis and try to calm the wind in the app. And it's almost like gamifying the whole meditation experience, which has been the only thing that's really worked for me because the first time I used it, the wind was just roaring. My brain must have just been out of control. And I couldn't calm the winds. And I was so frustrated. So after using it a few times and I learned how to do it, I started to understand the meditation process. So I think Muse is a great company to look into. If you're looking for an actual hardware product with some great software along with it, that will help you relax and stay calm. And there's a lot of science behind it as well. That's cool. I had not even heard of it. I think it's what you are. You know, I was I listened to a podcast and this is not necessarily as you were saying, Sarah, this is not a piece of technology. But I have found that in general, the addition of an Amazon Echo to my life has actually been a piece of technology that I do feel has the potential to reduce stress because I'm not, there's no screen involved. For me, I think the stress of using technology is tied to it's an active thing. You're looking into a screen, you're engaging with it. But with my Echo, I say, I listened to this podcast called Sleep With Me. That's just this, it's kind of for insomniacs. And you just this, it's really great. Like if you have trouble sleeping, it's like just this guy and he just tells the most boring stories like for like hours and hours. It's amazing. And I play that on my Echo. So for me, like I've begun to associate my Echo with kind of like stress relief and sort of this is what I flip on to relax. I don't have to engage with it. I just give it a command and then just chill. So I feel, so I'm happy to have that because I don't engage with it in the same ways I do my other pieces of technology. It's a passive thing. Nothing about it stresses me out. So for me, I think I would put the Echo in that category. Thinking about it, Sarah, I would say that it's fair to say something as tech that helps you relax it and wind. If technology is what's making that thing more accessible. So I think this is what Annie is saying is a great example. Yes, you could theoretically have listened to that on cassette or CD, but you wouldn't have. You wouldn't have been able to get that. So podcasts are a thing that technology has made possible. And the fact that you have the Echo means that you don't have to deal with the screen. I think that definitely clarifies it for me. It's not listening to music helps me rewind. It's that, oh, I'm listening to music now more often in ways that I wouldn't have because I've got this thing. And I would say that set-top boxes and over-the-top services are something I use to unwind sometimes because I'll sit down on the TV, you'll sit on the couch, I'll turn on the TV, and I will start to think that it's stressful to pick a show, right? And it's like, I don't want to have to make a decision. So there are channels on PlayStation View that I now have in my head of like, I will just put on the Olympic channel and I'll watch whatever weird winter sports or figure skating is on and just let it go and take my mind off. Yeah, I mean, that's the reason I still listen to terrestrial radio is like, I'm crippled by choice. This is way more stressful than it needs to be. And that's actually why, because I'm kind of a TV junkie and that's why I cut the cord however many years ago. That was particularly why, because I was like, I'm just watching too much garbage. But the fact that now, every time I sit down to watch something, I need to be like, okay, I want to watch this, it's on this app or it's in this menu of Netflix or whatever, or Plex or sometimes I find myself clicking around a little bit and then I sort of lose direction and then I realize half an hour later, I'm not even watching anything. I'm sitting in silence, which is actually pretty nice. So in a roundabout way, all of my choice has caused me to choose nothing, which really is my stress. I have to say, as I'm thinking about this, I realize I need to relax and unwind more often. I just don't have- I like gift. I mean, like that has been, I would say that's like life changing for me, have being able to set up all of my lights, all of my switching on my television, like through my Amazon, my dot. Yeah, I mean, that's been the big thing. And then also just like automating social media stuff. And this has been like the most relaxing, like first of all, setting up everything is super easy, all of your commands and everything. So I just really love that there is an entire website dedicated to Boolean statements that have made my life so much easier. Like, and I truly appreciate it in so many ways. Like I hated that if you post from, if you cross post from Instagram to Twitter, it just puts a link to your Instagram, right? Like I'm like, I want a native photo. And now, like with if, that's a thing that I can do. And so those kinds of things are just very valuable to me because if I'm not spending time on them, I can go relax. I love that when asked how she relax and unwinds with tech, Ashley responded Boolean logic. Yes, of course. Yeah, but it being able to like tell my echo, like, hey, turn on the PlayStation. That's the greatest thing. And then just turns on and I have the controller right there and I just play like, I don't have to fiddle with the remote and have to like switch a channel or put the input to three or whatever it is. Like it's just so handy, like so, so handy. It's kind of weird. Something that does not relieve stress is cats sitting for somebody and they have their lights timed to come on at a certain hour with a certain hue all in sync happened to me the other day. And I was like, oh my gosh, oh, got it. Yeah, these are actually really nice. They're a nice pink hue. But because I had not slept them up myself, it was smart. Smart home can be extremely stressful, extremely stressful, not realizing what, you know, what I was witnessing that was actually a stress reliever for someone else. Sorry, Roger, go ahead. Oh no, I was just saying, like I was thinking like with what was Ashley saying, like for me, online shopping is a huge relaxation because I don't have to worry about running through the store, especially if I need diapers right away or there's something my kid really needs and she's screaming and it's like, well, how do you turn her off? I'll just order something on Amazon and video games, like digital distribution, video games are a godsend. I don't have to go to the store. I have this weird do some odd ball install. I can sit down, shoot zombies or, you know, bad guys and I literally zone out. It's like my version of the punching bag. So physically punching something I will just go through and, you know, kill scores and scores of virtual robots or something and I can totally zone out. Tech in particular that helps me relax. Light painting in VR, oddly relaxing. Super relaxing. You just walk around and paint with light. I mean, it's like really, it's great. Yeah, I could see that. In fact, as soon as you said that, I'm like, oh right, I remember trying that out and thinking it was really cool and relaxing and then I never went back. I need to go back and do that. I need to put that on my list. I need to stress out about going back and doing that. Yeah, I have stress out about putting things on your list about not stressing out. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you advisors for that topic and I hope we got some people some ideas on Tech they can use to relax and unwind. Before we wrap up this show though, let's check in with Len Peralta. What have you been drawing, Len? Well, you know, the round table shows are always really difficult because there's so many great things to choose from. But what I decided to do is I once again, tried to mash as much as I possibly could into the drawing. Of course, the bots, these evil bots that have directives talking about the meat pods who will only purchase what we sell and only what we say they will purchase. Of course, the meat pods will also witness the end of their free will. I drew the little Tesla Roadster in the back there, tried to, the little pink off-brand, what's that thing? Oh, the cabbage patch doll. I called a pumpkin patch doll. I drew a fingerling in there. That was the off-brand one, the pumpkin patch. The pumpkin patch. And then this bot here, which is really, this is why you have to get this print is because this one is now, this bot is built with Facebook facial recognition technology. Which is really, really super frightening. So this is actually called, I think Happy Holidays, which should be pretty interesting. And also the directive three, of course, is if the meat pods do not comply and eliminate the meat pods. So. Don't eliminate the meat pods. It's a bad idea. It is, well, it could be a bad idea. I like that facial recognition bot is bringing Amazon packages to you. Exactly. It's all intertwined. It's all part of the- That's amazing. I think you've packed in pretty much everything we talked about in this entire show. It's incredible. I do. Well, folks, go check it out. LemperaltaStore.com, right? Yes, absolutely. And I didn't get it up there now, but if you, hopefully next week, we'll get the best of DTNS, InstaNart collection volume four up there for you guys to purchase if you guys are interested. So it's the best of 2017 that I drew throughout the year. Fantastic. All right. Well, that is it. This is our last live show of 2017. Oh my gosh, Sarah, it went great. It did go great. Thanks to everybody who was part of the roundtable. This was such a fun show. Not that our roundtables aren't always fun, but this was an extra special fun show. And yeah, I know. I mean, we have shows all next week. We should remind everybody of that, but this is our last live show for anybody watching live. Yeah, so thank you, Annie Gauss, for joining us. Folks want to find out more about what you got going on, where should they go? Twitter is probably the best place. Twitter.com slash Annie Gauss. Yes, there it is. That's me. A-N-N-I-E-G-A-U-S. Of course, Amber Mac. Thank you so much. Where can people follow you? Probably Twitter as well. So Twitter.com slash Amber Mac. A-M-B-E-R-M-A-C. Easy enough. And Ashley Esqueda, pleasure as always. Where can folks find you? So good. Mastodon. No, I'm just kidding. Twitter. Just hit me up on Twitter. It's Ashley Esqueda. It's super easy. And come have fun with me because I'm a real weirdo. Yeah, please do. I can vouch. She's a really fun weirdo. She's my kind of weirdo. So go check it out. If you want to keep the show going, of course, dailytechnewshow.com slash support has all the ways you can do that. If you'd like more of these roundtable shows, we want to do more of those. Our next milestone on Patreon is just, it's less than $2,000 away and we'd get us to two roundtable episodes a month. Join in the fun or up your pledge and get some of our cool perks like extended shows, exclusive columns, and more at patreon.com slash DTNS. We love your feedback. If you want to email us, it's a good way to get ahold of us. Feedback at dailytechnewshow.com is the address. We are live Monday through Friday, normally, not next week, but starting the week after. We'll be back for 30 p.m. Eastern, 2130 UTC at alfakigradio.com and diamondclub.tv. And our website is dailytechnewshow.com. No show on Monday for the Christmas holiday, but we'll be back on Tuesday with a special after Christmas retro show. We're going back to 1983, featuring Jen Cutter. See you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. Oh, that was so much fun. That was great. What a delight. That was an awesome content-filled show. Yeah, it was, truly was. That was great. Good conversation. Yeah, and thanks, everybody. Everybody seemed to have really good stuff to say. This is one of those shows that, you know, you can just sit down and have a piece of pie and... Or some cookies. But it's like totally engrossing. I loved it. My mom ate a piece of pie while we were doing the show. And like, I'm literally across the table from her. And I was like... Was she just like taunting you? Like slowly, like... No, she just couldn't wait. So I was like, you know, like, can you give me one? But then there'd be like berries in my teeth. Can we blame her though? Like, I was probably going all the way down here. No, no. Definitely not. You know, it was just, it was just hard. What kind of pie is it? Blackberry? Blackberry. Oh, yeah. Love me a berry pie. All the fruit pies. Excellent. Great stuff. Apple pie, good. Berry pie, better. That's the way that I feel. When my mom and dad started dating, she mentioned something about like making him a Blackberry pie. And he asked her to make him a pie at one point. She's like, oh, you should make me that pie that you're always talking about. And my mom went to the store and bought like a frozen pie and baked it. And he was like, this is the best pie I've ever eaten. He had no idea. And this went on for like, I'm not kidding, like 20 years. And then finally, my dad was like, will you just like make me one of those really great Blackberry pies that you make? And my mom was like, go buy one. Like they're at Vaughn's. And my dad was like, what? He's like, he couldn't believe. This has been a lie. She's like, look, she's like, I feel really bad. I just couldn't get it together in time for that first pie. I'm like, I just went and bought one from the store and you liked it so much, I just kept buying them. Mm-hmm, it's been fun. That was like 20 years. And I remember on like, it was like around 23, 24, because when she met my step, he's technically my step-dad, but he's my dad. She met him when I was like two. And so he'd always thought my mom like, bake this pie, even though he never saw pots and pans or flour in the kitchen. Like he just, it never occurred to him that there was no pie being baked in the house. This kitchen is incredibly cold for having baked it. So cold. There's no smell of blackberry pie in the house. My favorite thing my mom said was, well, I did bake it. I mean, took it out of the box and put it in the oven. I baked it, like technically I did bake you pie. But yeah, so every time I hear about blackberry pie, it always reminds me of like my mom and my dad with this ridiculous 20 year, just farce that was going on, this deception. It was like the funniest thing though, my dad was just horrified. He's like, I can't believe I've been eating box pie all these years. But did he start questioning everything else? Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't have blamed him if that. He would have been like, is this real? Are we in a simulation? Like what is happening? No, he was just like, oh, well, that's such a you thing to do. That's funny. That's the other thing is my mom is not a cook. Like my mom is not a baker. She's not a cook like she doesn't. My mom likes to make reservations for dinner. And so I'm like, in what universe did you ever think? Like my mom just specifically liked baking blackberry pies, like no other pies, like no other. Do you never see her bake anything? But like, oh, she makes you these great blackberry pies. I thought you were going to tell me that he asked for the pie one day. And then he said, oh, no, they don't make it anymore. That company went out of business. Yeah, no, I think it's like, I literally think it's just like a Sarah Lee or like pie or whatever. And she's like, oh yeah, I just buy it at like the grocery store. My dad was just like, what? The pie is a lie. It's a way from you, though, because I think I told the story on a post show before. But around Thanksgiving, not recently, but years ago, I had I was supposed to make something, you know? It wasn't like a whole Thanksgiving, but I had some dishes that I was responsible for. And I just screwed it up and I had to go to Whole Foods last minute and buy it. And somebody, like everyone thought it tasted so good. It was like mashed potatoes and some stuffing and some other things. And they just went on and on about like how talented I was. And I just couldn't admit it. You just owned it. You lived the lie. So I was just like, thank you. Yeah, you know, when someone was even like, how many sticks of butter in these mashed potatoes are so good? And I like was like, shoot, I won. So many. You know, I lost track. I still feel awful about it. But like once it got going, I was like, hours later, I can't be like, well, I kept it going. I made all of these nice things. I made zero of those things. I made the purchases for them. Great, bought them with my own money. Yeah, you're like, I made the money at the bottom, OK? Right. It was more expensive than buying the ingredients. So in a way, I tried even harder. Do you want to hit titles? It's beginning to look a lot like a bot. It's beginning to look a bot like Christmas. A bot like Christmas, get it? I like a bot Christmas to look the bot. Finger-rick rolling. I don't want a bot for Christmas. There's just one thing I need. Santa's been getting into automation. It's not going well. A fight for fingerlings. It's fingerlings, not stranger things. Here comes Tesla cars. Here comes Tesla cars right down Tesla cars lane. You can't automate trust. Tell me a boring story. Roger's punching bag, the big netcast of 2017. What's in a beverage? Food Schmidt Fondle. Oh, that's not good. What? Roger, you've got to stop just reading them all. You've got to pick the good ones. All right, all right. I thought fingerlings were potatoes. That's what I thought. Yeah, they are potatoes. Yeah, they are. You're right. It's a type of potato. Sarah makes amazing fingerling potatoes, I heard. They've got these little monkeys in them. That's pretty amazing. It's made with real monkey. They're really hard to find, you know. It might be to your next party. I'll just blow everybody away. Can't wait. Podcast and chill, sitting in silence. That's why the fingerling monkeys are so expensive. Is they're made of potatoes? They're potatoes. They're delicious. They're actually lemurs, not really monkeys. The top is beginning to look. It's beginning to look about like Christmas. I like that one. Let's do that one. That's the unanimous choice. Go with your gut. Oh, I can't do that. It's gotten so much bigger. Parenthood has made me a lot more sedentary. Because it's a lot of... You're not running around chasing Ellie? Oh, good Lord, no. I walk at a steady pace behind her. As long as she's within ice, I'm fine. Just keep the doors closed and it's all set. Actually, I'm kind of lucky she's not into sticking random things like in her mouth, like trying to taste her chewing stuff. No, that's like my... That's my puppy. Speaking of which, bylaw, what are you doing? Making hot cereal. Get it, Mila? No, no, we can't do that. Guys, I'm about to be invaded by speaking of children and eight-year-old who I can see here outside waiting to come in. So I should probably jump or it's going to get super noisy in my house. Yeah, don't worry. Thanks again. Thank you so much for being on the show today. Bye, guys. Thank you. Good to see you all. Happy holidays. Happy holidays, everybody. Happy holidays. I brought a phylo to say hello. Oh, my phylo. Phylo. Oh, my little puppy, baby. Oh, buddy. Bailey looks like jealous right now. She is the thirstiest, like the thirstiest dog that has ever lived. That dog looks just like Santa's little helper. She's a drinker, huh? Was it Santa's little something awesome or a great hug? Yes. Yes. My shepherd Ray this morning was going crazy because there was a squirrel out on the porch that just wouldn't leave. And she was, like, getting up on the glass, like, I have to get to it. And I was like, just go, squirrel. Stop taunting her. We have squirrels that go up on the fence in the backyard. For the longest time, the back of our backyard is against a really major street. And we thought that for my other dog, Jenkins, was bringing in, bringing in avocados into the house. And, like, they were half eaten. And I was really worried he was going to choke on a pit. And I was like, what are all these, like, garbage people outside our house on the sidewalk on the other side of the street throwing, like, rotten avocados in our yard for? Like, I hate them. And then finally, one day, this was, like, months later, I hear them all start barking and they fly outside. I'm like, there must be a squirrel. And I look and I see a squirrel running across the top of our fence. And it's carrying what I can only describe as an avocado the size of its body. And Jenkins, apparently at some point, had learned that if he barked at them as they ran across, they would drop the avocados, and he could eat them. So they were, like, nod on, and then he would grab them and bring them in the house. And I'm like, oh, my god, like, you guys are out of control. Who's Jenkins? Jenkins is my third attack. I have three Italian Greyhounds. OK, all right, all right. So there's Bailey's this one in the pajamas, because she has no hair, bald. Filo is 10 months old. We just got him this year. And Jenkins is my number one rider, Di Italian Greyhound. He's a loof. He's sleeping somewhere. I don't know. He's probably being sad somewhere. He's very emo sometimes. I am going to go and start the Christmas season, everybody. Go, man. Have a great Christmas, man. Thank you so much for everything. Thank you for helping us out this year. It's been great. Oh, thank you so much. You're the best, Len. Oh, you're the best. You really are. No, thank you so much for having me. It's been a real joy. And I'm looking forward to 2018 with you guys. It's going to be great. Yeah, me too. Excellent. All right, take care. Bye. Bye. Bye. I am going to go pick up another pair of glasses, because I have a problem. So I have a new pair of frames that just got lenses in them. People in the chat room were like, is that a huge cabinet full of glasses behind Ashley? And I was like, yes. Yes, it is. The whole other side has not been filled up yet. And so I need to fill up that side now. Yeah, go. But yeah, I like glasses, man. That's like shoes. It's like shoes. I'm obsessed. It's a great accessory. Yeah, you need them. I do. I mean, I don't need them this close. So I'm using what I call, this is like a behind the scenes thing, guys, if anyone cares. These are my these are my glosses that have no lenses in them. Oh, I can poke myself in the eye. Which is funny because I was like, anti-clair. How does she do it? I have three pairs of these glosses. So I have these and then I have. See, now I feel like so pedestrian, because I have like the pair I always wear on my face and an extra pair just in case. Well, I wore my reading glasses on the show one day and I was like, Oh, my gosh, it's so easy to read. And then everyone was like, the reflection is out of control. So I just don't want to do it anymore. So those are the ones with my prescription in them. Distance, which is which are the ones I wear all the time. And then and then I have a third pair of these that were the last pair ever made that are in. I'm not kidding, a safety deposit box at my bank, just in case the house burns down. That's good backup practice. You've got, you know, one, one local, one on your face and one in a remote location. I say like, this is my day. This is my daily driver pair. And then I have what I call a stunt pair, no lenses for photos and video. And then I have the third pair that's like an emergency pair, just in case, like, like I said, like the house burns down or there's some terrible accident and I like lose all my glasses. Oh, that'd be horrible. I do not practice proper backup. I'm tired of getting my glasses. This is OK. Literally, this is the only thing people recognize on my face. So so it's like my calling card. It's like my signature look. Yeah, yeah. My business cards don't have my face on them. They just have these glasses on them. That's right, I remember that. And so so, yeah, I just have them all the time. Speaking of which, Tom. Yes, sir. Speaking of getting those holidays started. Yes, ma'am. You go eat that pie. I'm like, really want some. All right, we're going to wrap up the broadcast, Roger. Yes, we are going to stop down. Thank you all for joining us. Don't forget to stay tuned next week, Tuesday for our special after Christmas special. And then we're also skipping the new year. So we'll start that week also on a Tuesday. Yeah, January 2nd is our next live show. Huge thanks to everybody for being with us all year long and making another year of DTNS possible. It's ridiculous to me that this is not only still going but going strong. The best audience ever. Yeah, I cannot thank you enough. Have a great holiday, everybody. Bye. Bye, everyone.