 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bar van der Zee and today I'm joined by Don Bennett the founder of Don Bennett drum studio and the current owner operator of Don Bennett's drum vault Don Welcome to the show Bart. Thank you for having me. Sure. This is you've been on my list for quite some time. You have I mean your collection is just Unbelievable I guess we can put it as you are a collector of Very famous drum sets. I mean celebrity drums if you will these are like the buddy rich drum sets These are the ringo drum sets. These are just like the the amazing drums that everyone drools over Thank you. It's it has been It's been really fun and really rewarding Doing this I don't know how I ever really ended up here, but Yeah, yeah, it's been a blast Well, I assume before this you were a collector of drums. Just like you know, like anyone else who collects drums But this is next level stuff. So I'd love to know maybe And you could even do it by like series of I got this then I got this then I got this How did you get into this? What were some early milestones that really kicked this thing off? Um, yeah Well, I would say this like just about anything started with a extreme interest in this kind of thing like uh so You know, I just very interested in what drums my My favorite drummers used. Yeah, and so, you know as Some people might just hear the music and that's good enough But you know like a lot of geeks, you know, it was I was really curious about you know, what really everybody in the whole band was was playing and um, like I'm sure a lot of people could relate to I would You know going to a concert and getting their hours ahead of time and just looking at the empty stage Was thrilling for me and you know checking out the drum set and what kind of amps and microphones and all that kind of stuff that was You know, I didn't have any problem hanging around for three hours before the show Because you know that was just showing itself and I think if you talk to A lot of geeks they can relate to that Very much. Sure. So that's it just started really with a very genuine interest and and Finding that kind of stuff just super super cool um If there was a Pivotal moment it would have been at A t-rex concert when I was probably about ninth grade that would have been early seven days and uh I caught a drum stick that the drummer Tossed out bill legend And you know, I guess anybody would think that was cool. But you know, I was just like Mesmerized with it. It's like here's the stick That just propelled This entire show that I just watched that was just mind blowing I mean, you know, so there's a lot of significance to me that In that drumstick, you know, I'm sure a lot of people that would have been hey Here's a cool souvenir from that show and life goes on for me. It was just like, you know, it was like a gift that Dropped out of heaven to me Really changed your life. Well, you know, it was just like it was just I well, you know I guess it did change my life. Yeah, I guess it it did It was It was very very significant to me And from there, you know, I was always like I said, I'd always been interested in this kind of stuff And it went on from there. And so once I had Opened a drum shop and I was starting to you know Deal in lots more drums Um I I think the first famous drummer I ever Encountered was Kenny Aronoff who at the time played with John Mellencamp Who was since become one of my closest friends But we were you know, he was looking for something and we ended up trading Some drums and so, you know instead of paying for it He gave me You know instead of trade or instead of Buying the drum that he was looking for He had some drums of his that he wasn't using anymore and we swapped and And for me it was like, oh my god, I know This is a snare drum that Kenny Aronoff used on all these John Mellencamp records. Yeah, and it was like This is amazing. And so Not, you know, not only was he one of my favorite drummers, but this is his drum. So again It was there's a lot of significance to To that drum For me Yeah, god, there's there's something I'm right there with you where there's something just so special About that piece of gear that it's just it has its own history and its own life and uh I had my brother played in a band with a guy who I don't know if this was actually the truth It looked like it, but he he had a dw snare and you could probably verify better than anyone else. It was it was apparently um I think joey kramer used it in when he was it was from wanes world two when aro smith Okay played In the movie is what the claim was so I don't know if that was true. Um, I think it was a dw I can't exactly remember but um Anyway, here just for me seeing that it was like That's unbelievable That drum was there. I mean It's so cool. Oh, yeah. I mean and see that's kind of where You know You fall on one side of the line. I mean to somebody would say oh Neat, that's a drum. I was in that movie. Yeah Into someone else like yourself or to me. It's like, oh my god That's the drum that was in that scene and he you get yeah, so they're just A lot of significance that you attach to it. And you know at first I thought that I was the only person who really cared about that kind of stuff but then as Things go on and you have more relationships and stuff. I see there's A lot of people that Find this stuff really interesting Yeah, absolutely a lot of Which we'll we'll talk about this later But a lot of like and I've found this out personally is that a lot of the collecting of this is from other drummers Who idolize these guys who idolize the drum sets of famous drummers who have come Before them, um, which that's a whole part of the conversation we'll have but Your collection has just I mean It is just blown up obviously from catching a drum stick when you were in ninth grade. Um, so Like things have things have gotten serious. So Mate, what are some of your favorites? I mean, you would probably have too many to name every single thing But like like right now, let's say in your collection. What's some of your, you know, the really really cool stuff And i'm on your website and let me let me mention this too. People can go to don Benet.com D O N N B E N N E T T.com and see everything and um, and it's all there. So yeah, what's some really cool stuff you have going on right now Let's see Um, I get asked that a lot, you know, it's like saying, you know, what's your favorite song? Yeah and It changes all the time But I know what would have to always be up there at the top of the Of the list would be A symbol a china symbol a u-fit the china symbol that charlie watz gave me. Oh, yeah um That's awesome, you know, that's I mean Yeah, talk about cool. Um, that's pretty darn cool. That's pretty pretty cool Let's see. I think the uh I have a Ringo star Black oyster pearl ledwig 1963 drum set. You know, that was not Ringo's set, but it is Literally 100 percent Exactly identical to Ringo's first beatle set And so I mean That's Pretty cool. Yeah in and of itself But for me what really Got me into collecting drums in the first place was trying to find a A beatle set, you know, I thought I was up the Beatles and Ringo were really cool And I thought it'd be so cool to have a a set Just like Ringo's But I never knew all the specific details, you know, the of What was unique about Ringo's set and you know, so that led to all kinds of pouring over pictures and You know, but back then it was You know magazines and books and just talking to other drum geeks But So this is a set I just got about a year ago And you know in the course of Hunting for a Ringo set Hey, man, I've had uh, I couldn't tell you I've probably had 30 or 40 of them In my life And they've come and gone and every every time I sell one. I think well I'll sell this one to get a better one and That hopefully a better one shows up. But this this one Really? You probably couldn't get any better. Yeah, it's uh It's made within a couple of months of of when Ringo's first set was made It has the right snare. I mean the I mean I could get into the whole boring story, but there is The snare that Ringo used with the Beatles Is a Ludwig black or oyster jazz festival? Yeah, which they've made, you know thousands of but the particular one he used In the particular configuration that he used is extremely rare. There's only like a small handful maybe 10 of those known in the world And uh This set has has one of those snares Well, so anyway, it's it's uh as far as a Ringo star collectible drum set goes There's many many people who are Trying to get a Ringo star drum set and this is in my entire life in what 40 some years of searching for one of those is hands down the The best one I've ever seen and I I don't see how it could get any better So that would definitely have to be up there um Yeah, they had there's that's gary astrid has been on the show who I'm sure you know very well and Yes, the description his his talking about you know the on stage ones and I forget that it was the owner of a football team I think I forget who actually is buying up some of that stuff Yeah, oh my god and the amount of money that is going into that is just it's it's astronomical. Um Yes And yeah, gary, I mean I won't bore you with all the specific details and he probably talked about it But yeah, gary gary is a guy who sort of has Brought all of this Information all these details to light. He's the one who did the deep research and Just even made people aware of The specific little details that were on ringo sets that that make them Very unique basically You know in very short is You know so ringo got his drums Right before they were on the ed sullivan show And once they were on the ed sullivan show Then Beatle mania happened And Ludwig went from you know, I think their their orders multiplied by six overnight and so They started making black oyster drums like you know by the hundreds thousands But by the time beatle mania had hit they had changed the configuration of that snare So that all those drums the thousands of those black oyster drums They were making after beatle mania hit after they were on the ed sullivan show They are all a little bit different from Ringo's actual snare. So that's why That particular drum is So rare Yeah, I know we've the discussion of ringo. There's been a fair amount on the show where that that day After the ed sullivan show where I think B3 was talking about it on here where they were getting calls saying I want to I want a ringo kit and the people on the other end of the phone were going What's a ringo kit like they didn't know the the operators didn't Right know yet man, so looking just There's so much but just looking at your current inventory on on your website I mean you have joey kramer's aerosmith set from 2003. There's a top hat and cane kit. There is three top hat and cane So those are some of the rarest drums in the world and you have three of them I mean that kind of blows my mind Oh, if you if if you want to really take it to the next level, um, I think I've had Eight of those sets Um, oh my god. All right, so pause there. Let me ask you. So let's let's use the top hat and cane You know as an example and you don't need to give away your your secrets here, but Like Are these where people are coming to you because you're you're on on a grand grand grand level You're like the guy who puts an ad in the paper and says I buy drums or on craigslist looking for drums obviously you're that times a million but Are people typically coming to you with let's say top hat and cane kits or Yes, or okay Now here's where it gets very interesting I I've never Like sought out a top hat and cane set They have all come to me and why You tell me I wish I it's like, uh, I think we're talking about before we started I don't get how this works, but I know it does work and I don't question it, but um I don't yeah, I I mean, yeah, obviously, you know, I have a fairly high profile and I've been doing this for Yikes about 40 years But just I mean the way stuff Comes out of the woodwork and Lands in my lap Or just I mean I there's probably hundreds of stories. I could tell you of just the bizarre set of Circumstances that lead some person out there to me There and and ends up with me acquiring some amazing drum I mean it just happens over and over and over And man, I really wish there was a secret or a formula or But there isn't and it just it just keeps happening And I call it drum karma totally But certainly I mean, you know There's some obvious logical stuff that you know, I do have I've been doing it for a long time and I do have a certain high profile and um You know on I guess if there's anything that I would say is just like I always try and treat people fairly and I definitely and I've never screwed anybody over and I think in general I've got a good reputation as an honest person and that that you know, I will I will conduct myself fairly and And You know, so that that goes a long way. I mean This kind of business requires a lot of trust and if People feel like they can trust you then I think If I mean if so if there's any secret or formula, I guess that would be it just Yeah You know just being honest with people You know honesty is the best policy is kind of there There is a reason that that is an expression Because it has it has proven itself You know for generations Definitely and it's it is that's very true now are do you find yourself? I guess this is a two-part question Uh part one being are you yourself and I'll ask both and we can go into it part one being Are you yourself kind of a history nerd with all of this being do you Know the whole background. I'm assuming it yes on like the top hat and cane You could probably tell us everything about it And then part two is how do I want to lead into how do you authenticate these drum sets to make sure they're Real and I feel like they're kind of you know, they kind of go hand in hand a little bit so Question one. Are you are you a big history nerd? um Not as much as you would think yes, I am and I I do find it fascinating but Yeah, you know there are people who are much more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am and I guess I can only commit so much stuff to to memory. It is fun. It is I mean fortunately, you know Tracing down the history of something is a lot of fun to me and you know, because I end up spending a lot of time doing that um Yeah, my history nerd Not really. I'm at it. I'm compared, you know, I'm really my I'm compelled to trace the history because It's necessary sure And but you know, there's I mean believe me there are people Who know all the nuts and bolts? Yeah far far far better than I do I think I've sort of fallen into that I am a big history nerd and obviously I love this and I do this show but there's times where I'll From 35 episodes ago. I'll forget something completely and um I think there's specialists in every category Obviously where a guy like you Who has so many different? things going on But I'm sure you're friends with lots of people obviously who can who can help you and say oh that um You know dampening system is wrong on that tom or something like that. Um Correct. Yeah, and so, you know, um Before the internet tracing history On On the drum or or you know, whatever You know that usually involved a lot of phone calls And that's what I would do. I mean, I guess listen, what did I start this? I mean Yeah, about 40 years ago. So I'm gonna start I mean There were phone calls and literally letters which seem so archaic now Um But Yeah, that's how that You know would happen and and I mean just tracing down somebody's address or somebody's phone number You know that can be a project in love itself. Of course. Sure. So so doing the kind of detective work like that um Was always just kind of fun and hey, you know in the in the process I get to have a phone call with somebody like Hal Blaine or Yeah, or you know, whomever. I mean that's That's pretty fun for me. Well, you you literally Read my mind because I'm on the site now looking at Hal Blaine's 1980s pearl set All right, so on to the authentication Side of things I'm assuming that like if you're playing and obviously Hal Blaine has passed away But if you're playing like you said earlier Kenny Aranoff, um, you you get some drums in That are Kenny Aranoff's drums if he didn't give them to you, obviously, that's kind of an authentication right there How do you go about authenticating something like that? Do you try and get a hold of Kenny? Do you call him personally and ask are these your drums? You know, um All of the above and I just sort of start with What I what I know and kind of go from there Um, yeah, now now I've sort of developed a network of friends over many years that I mean Pretty much Any drummer you could think of I know somebody who knows them Uh, or can Or can corn knows their sister or knows how to get a hold of them. Sure. Um And again before, you know pre-internet, you know, that was a lot more complicated. Um, I mean You know digging around on the internet I mean a lot of people are very accessible. I mean you can go to facebook and boom. There's the guy's facebook. Yeah, really but Yeah, so I think many years of lots of relationships Have Served me well. So pretty much find anybody Then again, fortunately from having gone just making it a priority to treat people Fairly and nicely, you know, once I do contact somebody chances are They may know who I am and if either either they'll know that I'm legit or With a little poking around on there and they'll find out that I'm legit. Yeah, and I'm gonna treat them fairly Now have obviously Honesty is your kind of, you know, number one. That's not the case for everyone else in the world as we all know Have you had any instances where you get something or you come across something and it turns out it isn't what They said it is. I'm sure in your 40 years. You have to come across some Some fakes or something like that. Any experiences like that? Uh, yeah. Yeah, um And I'll give you two examples one. We were just talking about that ringo snare, right? Yeah So recently I had a guy call me who uh said that he had two of those snare drums and So, you know, he he wanted to sell them and I was interested in buying them, but there are a lot of money and So I asked if he would send them to me on spec and And which he was glad to do he sent them and they were Counter fits. I mean, uh, somebody Uh, whether it was that person or someone before him had gone to a tremendous amount of work and done a really good job of Making a counterfeit snare drum. Um, you know, there's a lot of this put it this way. There's a lot of drums that People have altered or something like that. Yeah pretty easy to uh to tell. I mean really like in just in Seconds usually you can You know, knowing what to look for you can tell and see if it's legit or not In this situation, um, I mean these are drums that are conceivably worth $20,000 each Yeah, exactly Somebody had gone to a great lengths to do A really good job of counterfeiting them and I mean I I was literally it I had to get out like a magnifying glass And really get into it to see that I mean They were just faked and Being trying to pass off is the real thing Which you know when when a snare drum is worth, you know, maybe Four or five six hundred bucks You know, it's probably not worth somebody's time to know go to Doing the work to To You know try and counterfeit something like that when it's potentially worth 20 grand. Yeah, then, you know, then somebody's going to be motivated to to Create a a drum that uh that they can pass off is a real thing. It it's been happening in The guitar world for decades Um, but it's just now that drums are sort of getting up into that value range where you know, it's it's for somebody's time God, I so I'd love to like we'd almost have to like You know, I feel like if I was shooting video, he'd be all blacked out and I have to modify his voice But talk to the guy who's doing this You know what I mean like Oh like an expose. Hey, you know and and so Where I left it off with him was I sent him back and I said I cannot with a hundred percent confidence verify that These are authentic And here's the reasons and You know, I sent him back and you know, it wasn't up to me to Call him a Counter-fitter because you know, it could have could have been done by he might have a person before him or whatever, but you know that would I I told him and explained the reasons and So yeah, that's taken the high road instead of saying hey by the way, I'm calling the police. You're you're in trouble You know, that's that's hey you kind of washed your hands of it Yeah, and uh, you know, it's the drum Collecting world is small. Yeah place. It's a small circle and and word of that will Get around and yeah, it's getting around right now as we talk We're putting it out there. Now. I was going to give you a second half of that answer So in the uh celebrity drum world Yeah, there's items that somebody says Was owned or used by somebody famous And then that's where I do my homework and yeah, they're I mean some you have to You just have to Give it the benefit of the doubt that if you do the homework That you can assume the person trying to to sell it just You can assume maybe they didn't do their homework and they don't know any better and you know, hey, they you know, they get a A drum and it's in a case that says gene krupa on it They they put two and together and assumed that there was gene krupa's drum Well you know, so I just I wouldn't make a judgment other than that, you know, I I'm not convinced that it is That is real but that yeah, that's happened now. There have been other ones where people have tried to Pass a drum off as being owned by somebody famous that you know, it was clear that This wasn't true and you know, they tried to sell it to somebody else who caught the same mistake and told them No, this isn't true and now they're trying to mean so yeah that that That happens too. I do I do, you know, like I said, I have a large network of people who Who are in the know on this stuff be it drum tax be it people in the drum, you know, the manufacturing Industry the other players You know, I just I usually have a way to find some way to circle back and and Authenticate something. Yeah, sure Yeah, I Maybe it's just you know on the facebook groups and stuff, but it seems like I'm assuming buddy as well But it seems like there's a lot gene krupa. There seems to be a lot of like this was gene's drums This was gene's drum. This was buddy's drums. This was buddy snare It seems like There's a lot of maybe it's because they're just so famous and synonymous with Drums it just seems like there's a lot of those and then you get the guys like brooks teggler Who are you sick brooks on it and then he shuts it down? Yes, yes, exactly Yeah, you know, and then there's also like you get on facebook and I I hate to say but there's a lot of self-proclaimed experts Who will chime in very confidently One way or the other you know pro or con and Then unfortunately people see that and they take that as a gospel And say well, you know this guy says that it's fake. Well, you know A lot of times it doesn't matter because that guy doesn't know what he's talking about Yeah, yeah, so You know that sort of opens up a whole mother can of worms in online chatter that sort of becomes Truth to a lot of people I feel like a lot of people that's one thing that I've learned from from doing this whole process of starting the show Is there's there's a lot of experts who might not be the correct expert if that makes sense. There's a lot of people who Um, who are very very knowledgeable But they might both like literally take it to their grave that they are correct and they are They have polar opposite beliefs about one thing. It's just you don't know really who to believe sometimes You know, and I think I think Anybody, you know with with a little bit of sense Can Sort of filter through what's what kind of chatter is legit and what's not But you know, there's just those guys who just Say stuff online I mean everybody's seen it that they just put it out there as you know the god-given truth That this is what it is And They are no it's just their opinion or what they think or what yes what somebody told them or Or what they thought Anyway, so yeah, yeah I just kind of try to steer clear of that kind of stuff and get as close to the source As possible and you know, I have the luxury of Many years experience like you're saying and lots of of relationships where I can I can usually get Extremely close to the source for as close as you can as close as you can get. Yeah. Yeah, definitely And you'll see you'll if you look at my uh, the listings I'll I'll describe what the connection is and You know, sometimes I don't always go into the complete detail in the actual listing, but you know somebody if somebody Uh, you know wants to know more about something Uh, you know, I I can document and I do document the whole Sort of research trail And you know that that all goes into quite frankly in when I value something I put a price on it You know the the quality of the uh, the the trail Yeah, is it plays a big part in What something's worth It's like when you buy a car and someone's documented they have other oil changes listed. It's like, oh, okay Well, this seems more legit than any other car But what you just said has segwayed perfectly into my next question where These are valuable drums. I mean, I'm looking I mean, obviously I think they're priced correctly You know the market better than anyone else, but I mean, I'm looking at the buddy rich 1968 slingerland drum set for $32,995 so $33,000 for that And you know, they range from You know under a thousand up to 100,000 like I would love to know so so this isn't like a thing where um Someone's just going out and buying this on a whim. You're not buying john densmore's uh The the kit he played um for $10,000 Just because you have a little bit of extra money. So I'd love to know about um Who are like are your is your customer base typically high-level collectors? Are they other? You know famous drummers. I mean you have to have a little bit of a little bit of money to be able to buy these things All of the above. Yeah, they are I mean they are expensive and so You know for the most part Nobody Who's just sort of like has a casual interest in something like that is going to spend that kind of money Yeah, um Unless they're really into it Right. So so most of people I deal with it are really into it and um So they okay, there are collectors and you know that the The collector world has has grown Uh a lot. I mean then in as long as I've been doing it The a number of people and the number of interest A number or in the amount of interest has has just increased exponentially And the uh, you know just like we're talking about gary astridge the uh the information about stuff has and research has increased dramatically and that also Drives up the value of something, you know once once once people understand The rarity of something based on someone's research then thus the value goes up And then you know the value goes up. So does the interest, you know people want that more Sure. So yeah, um, I quite frankly, I'm very amazed that there are you know, there are A lot of people who are Willing to pay, you know, you know very real money for Well documented, uh historical items like this, you know a lot of people Told me early on you're crazy, you know, nobody's nobody's who spent $40,000 on a drum set. I don't care who played it Um and you know, I I heard that many many many times I still do but um, you know Well one of my I I put it I rarely respond to uh People who make comments like that. You know, I see one face. I just don't even respond to them. I just don't worry about it but uh Occasionally I will dive in with my favorite comment and when somebody says you'll never sell it for that much or you're crazy Um, I just always love to say well, I'll be sure to pass that on Or to the guy who just bought it That's funny I think it's great. And I truly think that like so so Backing up to my last question too though. Would a lot of these guys who or maybe you're dealing with be like we talked earlier about um Like charlie watz you have a great relationship with him and and I can speak my my You know encounter with him, which was just amazing. We were talking about how you've got this amazing relationship. You are a You're his guy. I mean you're his one of his drum dealers. I mean that's He is just the top of the mountain. I mean, so you've got these relationships with with great guys like that um Yes, and I A date does not go by that. I don't consider myself Extremely fortunate when For those relationships, um, you know, I mean in charlie's case Uh besides just being like an extraordinarily enjoyable person who's just who's just Absolutely Just thrilling just to I mean forget if he's a rolling stone or whatever. Just he's just such a great guy I I would look forward to working with somebody that nice and that great and that That respectful In any situation and then oh, yeah, you tag in there that yes He is in the rolling stones who's you know, which are my favorite band and he's my favorite drummer and Yeah, so to have a relationship like that is just like kind of off the chart And You know, I'm what was it? My good friend Jeff chonis Who is ringos tech? He told me a long time ago after after we'd done several deals with uh with ringo and He said that uh, he said oh, I just thought I'd tell you that I was talking with ringo and he said and we were uh And we were we were talking about looking for something and goes Why don't you just call dawn in seattle? I'm like You're the Well, put it this way I said charlie was my favorite drummer, but you know how it goes that changes with the wind sure Uh ringo would be right up there with uh with charlie and depending on what day you asked me, uh, you know He would determine what answer you got on that. Yeah, but yeah They have ringos and yeah, why don't you just call dawn in seattle the fact that ringo star know who knows who I am That he knows what my name is and that he knows where you live Yeah, oh, I think it's so cool and I kind of feel like this. I'm like, you know, I'm doing the podcast I just feel like there's so many ways to be involved in the drum community You don't have to be ringo to be able to be you know Such a mega in I mean ringo knows you and you're you're a guy ringo trusts. I mean, that's It's you just got to get yourself out there and and find a way to to um To be involved. I mean, that's just unbelievable. That's very true. You know, I think Uh, I know I and I can probably speak for a lot of people. You know, you start this Path wanting to be a rock star or a music star or you know jazz or whatever it is That's that's where the past starts. I mean, I doubt anybody picks up a pair of sticks You know with the goal of becoming a famous drum dealer It just you know, it probably doesn't happen. It certainly didn't happen in my in my case Sure, but you know, you start on the path and and you you go and Stuff happens and you kind of continue to follow your path and your interests and And then you end up in this very nice place, which you know, and you're saying, you know, there's a lot of different ways of being involved in the whole drum world in very satisfying and exciting ways Yeah, and it just kind of depends on just how open you are to them and and You know, definitely being being being aware that you can't plan a lot of stuff I mean, there's there's no way I could have planned my career. I mean, I mean Of two months before I decided to open my drum shop. I'd never in my life had a the thought even enter my mind of Opening a drum shop, you know, it's it's not something I dreamt of or aspired to it just kind of It just kind of evolved and I certainly never had any idea at that point that I You know that I would ever find this this mega super micro niche of The drum industry of dealing with celebrity Drums and and celebrity drummers. Yeah, you know, that was no plan. It just like Practically all of a sudden I found myself With that, you know, just because I was interested in that kind of stuff and and uh sort of Poking around for that kind of stuff or yeah, or you're good at it, obviously Aware of it when I did see, you know, when I did stumble onto something that that you know This this this is a cool thing as opposed to this is just some old drum set It's like no the fact that whomever owned this and used this this makes it More special. Yeah, really and to be just being aware of that and kind of yeah led me here, but I yeah, I certainly You wouldn't buy any plan or or You know lifelong dream it just kind of I just started on the path of playing the drums and This is kind of and I just kept following what What was interesting to me and and here I am Yeah, that's so cool for people to really understand the collection and all of this again Go to don vennett.com. But um So don I want to talk a little bit about You have on your website and I've seen it on not so modern drummer. Um the 1925 Ludwig william s heart jr. Gold snare the holy grail as it's called on here 118 thousand dollars. This is obviously A major piece of history Um, I I would imagine I mean I think most people who are somewhat knowledgeable in history realize that the swastika has a very long long long long history well before The nazi party all of that stuff, but this drum It has swastikas on it, but it's it is one of the most like Unbelievable drums what you want to talk a little bit about that drum Oh, yeah, I'm glad you asked because that really is the whole thing Is a fascinating story You know, we could probably do an entire hour just on that drum. Yeah For the people who don't know so there is this 1920s Ludwig snare drum that was made for this guy In william hart who was a really famous silent movie cowboy. So In talking to his family, you know, he would be like about the equivalent of a Sylvester Stallone or Um, you know a huge box office Yeah movie star and kind of an eccentric and uh so Well, it wasn't pre nazi party because see you talk about the research and history. So trust me. I've done a lot so, uh, I think the nazi party was founded About four years before this drum was made. Okay, but At that time, you know, it was just a small labor movement in germany that really nobody outside of germany uh, had ever heard of and really was was Just not significant and Certainly had nothing to do with the nazi party that it it evolved into with you know with hitler and the And you know all the atrocities and holocaust You know some way predating that so the swastika Is a symbol that's been around for For centuries and it's been used in many many different cultures And meaning lots of different things and All of them have been very positive Things it's it's essentially a peace symbol Or in some cultures one, uh, a like almost like a good luck or a prosperity, you know, like Not just good luck, but of a well-wishing of of all good things Um and You know, unfortunately that symbol got hijacked by the nazis and they did everything they did and it's become synonymous with, you know, all of the ugliness that they had perpetuated So here sits this drum that That william hart had chosen this symbol To decorate this beautiful drum that he gave to his then I want to say his three-year-old son Which was a you know, really a very beautiful gift with with a very beautiful, uh Intention, you know that he wanted he's wishing The best for his his young son and and also bought the most expensive drum ever made, you know at the time To give to his three-year-old son, which I guess is just kind of like a You know a typical movie star kind of a thing to do, you know, when you get Outlandish kind of money. That's just what you do. Yeah So that drum of course the kid was three and he you know may have hit it a couple of times It got put away and You know, he didn't take to the drums And There it sat. Um in perfect condition, you know, it was just stored and Okay, so meanwhile in 1925, I believe it was when that drum was made it was such a Such a uh a big deal that Ludwig Wrote an article about it in their Ludwig drummer magazine And it was on the cover of that and they're talking about this beautiful drum and and Again at the time swastikas didn't mean anything. It was just like a it really was like a peace sign. Yeah Anyway, so the The stroke of luck for the whole drum history world is the fact that That drum was documented on the cover of the Ludwig drum magazine in 1925 So there was and among then um, then you know decades pass and drum geeks Had wondered where this drum was And harry kangeny a one of the original vintage drum dealers Just being an historian He had started years ago. I believe it was in the 90s Trying to track this drum down or find out whatever happened to it And wrote many letters and calls and and came up with nothing But he did send the letter I and I hope I have the dates right but We'll I'll go back and look but you'll get the idea. I believe it was around 1990 He sent a letter to The heart family who and they never responded But they did get it somebody got that letter And they stuck it in the case where the drum was Without ever responding 20 years later They are Moving clearing stuff, you know, uh, this this heart family had had like You know, this guy was a a eccentric collector So he had massive collections of of just all kinds of stuff and they had so They they were moving they're trying to sort out all of his stuff Massive job come this drum They're trying to figure out what to do with it. Here's this letter from harry kangeny That he ripped 20 years previous anyway, they respond to the letter and say, uh 20 years after the fact and They said yeah, we have the drum and it's been sitting in a case for its entire life and It's in a picture and it's in perfect condition And you know, you talk about a holy grail for a historian to you can imagine harry when he got that letter One years later. Oh my god, and he had you know, he'd pretty much just given up on on ever finding anything and had forgotten about and You know life had gone on so, uh Then as it turned out, you know, their conversation went on Uh, he was uh, or they were interested in selling it Harry By then was no longer a drum dealer and just not really interested in doing that We had had dealings in the past harry and I And you know, we were friends and and had a great time dealing Drums and he said boy you should call don bet he could he could uh Probably he's probably the best guy to help you with that And here we are so uh So I was given the task of trying to uh Sell that drum And you know, so on one hand It is this, you know, most expensive Drum ever made at the time. It's probably been more expensive drums made since And it's sure absolutely beautiful and I mean for people listening it is all gold and The whole drum is all gold beautifully done in gold and then There are these Stirling silver swastikas. There's probably I don't know 40 of them. Yeah That are applied To the shell all over the drum plus a beautifully engraved little plaque grease You know, he says it says he's giving it to his son with love Or whatever it says, but it's just an amazing looking drum and a p It would be the holy grail of Uh of all drum collecting Uh and worth a tremendous amount of money, you know, however Um, oh by the way, it is covered with swastikas You know talk about a little hot button Yeah, that's the one thing that is Oh, did I mention? Oh, did I mention it's covered with all 40 or 50 swastikas? But besides that so it just ignore it. So here's my hope is that The person who buys that Uh Is going to be able to It it'll be like the it'll be the Coming full circle on that. It's basically it's it's it's going to be the not letting Evil Yeah, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be good overtaking evil. So yes You know evil swiped that sign and made it into an awful thing and And This drum can Turn that around or it's or it's like no, I'm not gonna let evil take This beautiful thing and turn it into something nasty Yeah, I mean, there's there's buildings all over the world that have like in gray Like in the in the tile in like india and in europe where there's swastikas all over. I mean, it's So yeah, yeah, no exactly and so that is my hope that You know when you really get into the deep Motivation and what what would be really exciting to me is that That when that drum sells it will be a matter of good Winning over evil and yeah, so I hope and you know, it's gonna happen sooner or later And of course but until then there it is for the longest time I I didn't even list it on my website. I just I tried to sell it to Individuals, you know by strictly by phone calls and if somebody was interested then I would send them a picture It's being you know really handling like that It's like a hot potato and I even wrote an article for one of the big drum magazines Explaining the whole history So, you know to help people understand sure and if you notice on my website even now For the main did the thumbnail picture the main picture that people see I don't have a picture of the drum. I just have a picture of the article Where you know if you look closely you can see it And then if you look in the article, I Go to great lengths to try and explain the history there But you know so many people said, you know, I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole you know that's going to get on facebook and And you know you're gonna start some misinformed Rampage, you know next thing, you know, you're gonna be everyone's gonna be saying you're a nazi and I don't think you're a nazi I really you know, yeah, it's funny. You say that because eventually that's where I Stop being afraid of it and said look, you know what if any if somebody would have to try really hard to try to paint me as a nazi or a Somebody who supported that and you know, if somebody wants if somebody wants to Create some big fuss I I can't see it Getting legs and Going crazy. I think you know, I've got enough track record that exactly enough people know why and that they could see Bs when they see it they recognize bs when they see it. No, they're not gonna go man after 40 years I never knew don was a nazi. I never knew he was a nazi. My god. He seemed like such a nice guy No, wow, it's a beautiful drum. Everyone should check it out and I think um, it's a part of history. So And like I said, ultimately it is going to be good triumphing over evil sooner or later And you know, there's there is uh, there's a lot of ugliness out there in the world right now and If you know that that will be Really gratifying to me when that happens and I know it will happen Um, I mean, hey any drum dealer who sells a hundred and eighteen thousand dollar drum If that's can be very gratifying But that will really be small potatoes compared to The fact that this will demonstrate good Weaning out over evil Removing the stigma not giving it the power the evil the power it's diffused. You know, yeah, it would be diffusing the negative power that uh, That uh, it basically stole from That symbol Absolutely cool. Well don, I think that's that's a really cool end of the episode because I've actually been curious about that drum forever And it's it's just one of those like like you said you You look at it and you go, oh my god, but it's it's a piece of history. Um, so Everyone can check that out on the website and and before we wrap up I want to tell people because I know A lot of my listeners are actually, you know, there's a lot of big-time collectors who you I guarantee You know many of them and they're they're probably people you you deal with already and they can afford a lot of the nice drums But for guys like me, I think it's really cool on your website how you do have a couple like like There is a t-shirt section You can get for like a hundred fifty bucks seventy five bucks T-shirts that were correct me if i'm wrong They were basically like the band shirts that elvin jones and his band would wear Um and the crew right yeah, aren't those cool. They're really cool those shirts those shirts Yeah, so And i'll i'll keep it brief, but you know when elvin passed I bought elvin's entire Collection of drums and wasn't the collection it was just like what he'd acquired These are just all his drums and he never got rid of anything So he literally had an entire apartment filled floor to ceiling Every room With his old drum gear so, uh, I mean Talk about a you know a pharaoh's tomb like king tuts tomb. I mean that was just like I I still am selling much of that stuff and and boy, that's you know Through that I've Came well, that's how I came to know charlie walks. Is he bought some of that stuff? I've just got to know Dozens maybe hundreds of of drummers and Famous and just other otherwise just It's been an amazing experience Um, but yeah amongst all that stuff were all these t-shirts and some of them are actually elvin's actual shirts And then other ones are the ones that Uh, he uh He had made for his band and and he he never Had, you know, like a swag t-shirt. You remember sold t-shirts like a lot of bands do now Yeah, like a merch booth kind of thing Yeah, so the only way to get one of those shirts was either to be elvin or to be in his band Now, you know, I don't know if you also saw it, but it's it's worth mentioning because it's another one These really cool finds is that In a box in the last transaction I had with elvin with elvin's wife. I'm sorry. Yeah Is there was a big case full of elvin's personal collection of his gig posters Cool, it's like since the 70s. So, you know, you know, he traveled all over the world gigged all over the world and whenever he could he would get a A copy of the poster from from whatever gigs he was doing and we just take him and throw him in a box and That's what he did and that box got stuck in storage and forgot about and So I've got this collection of about 500 of his posters And, you know, not only not only are they cool Really historical posters from I mean the chronicle like Would have been about About 30 years of his life But, you know, they're they're his personal Posters that, you know, he collected Out there on his travels I mean you talk about every picture telling the story those things You know, every one of them has History and boy, I'll tell you just Every one of them is a can of worms basically because, you know, in the little digging around I've done, you know, so I talked to a promoter and I find, you know, I get in touch with a promoter who who Was promoting that show and then he's got a story about how elvin treated him so nicely and and the gig or something crazy that happened at the gig and Everyone's got a story like that and wow So yeah, yeah, that's the fun stuff that I End up spending my time doing that's what I do Yeah, well, and I think it's cool to say that just so like people know to go to your site and that they're not all these, you know Hopefully people can buy, you know, the buddy rich drum set or something like that But you can still get a t-shirt, you know for I've got all I I I do have all kinds of stuff. It's not just $40,000 drum sets I do I do try to only deal in really nice Stuff I it's quality. Yeah, it's not I still clear of the project kind of stuff because really I just don't have time To do projects anymore. Sure. So Yeah, so it's I've just had the Really good fortune to be able to sort of specialize in in sort of the To the really nicest stuff out I'm very fortunate It is the nicest stuff, man. Well So everyone can go to like I said before dawn ben at d o n n Be n n e t t dot com You can see everything there and just keep up with dawn and um man dawn I want to just thank you for taking the time to Share the amazing story about these drums and all this stuff in your background And hopefully we'll we'll be able to hang out it when the when the drums shows actually start back up again after all this craziness is over I sure hope so and I I I didn't realize how much I missed that stuff Yeah, but uh, I really look forward to that and it's you know, it's worth mentioning also So for I don't know five or six years. I was writing a column every month called time capsules in drum magazine Now they stopped publishing recently and Modern drummer picked up the column and so now it's called dawn ben at strum vault and every month I do a story on some Some item from my collection And so yeah that That whole column, you know first with drum and now with modern drummer That was a Lot of fun. And you know, there's that word again keep being historian But writing those, you know, I really had to go and and do the history and get it on paper But So I document the whole Sort of process kind of like we're doing today the whole process on on researching any one of these Many drums that have Come across my path So but yeah, that's uh, that'll that's in uh, that'll be a monthly column out in In every issue of modern drummer. That's great. Many ways to keep up with dawn So cool. Well don, thank you so much for taking the time to be here And uh, and like I said, everyone can go to don ben at calm and check it out. So, um, don Thank you very much. Hey Bart, uh, again, thank you. Thank you for having me and Uh, hey, this this was a uh an afternoon well spent. I love talking about drums and You know, I could probably keep this going for another few hours Me too me too. Awesome. Thank you, Don Bart. Thanks million. All right. Take care If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history And please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future Until next time keep on learning This is a Gwyn sound podcast