 Welcome to Liquid Margins. This is Annotation Lab, Social Reading, and STEM. Today's guests are Beverly Raney, Raney like Franny. She's a professor of biology at Barstow Community College. We have with us once again on Liquid Margins, Carlos Goller, he's associate teaching professor at North Carolina State University, and Melanie Linehan, professor of biology, Raritan Valley Community College, and our moderator is Jeremy Dean. We do have a big biology focus here today, so that's just this happenstance. But great, I love it. But we'll be talking about social annotation in general not just how it applies to STEM topics, but in particular how it does apply to STEM topics. All right, so with that, I'm going to turn it over to Jeremy. So take it away, I'll see you all in the flip side. Thanks so much for any and great to be here today. I did want to provide a little bit of context for myself. I'm an English PhD and I've always been a humanities person throughout my life. However, both my parents are scientists and two of three siblings are scientists. My wife is an academic biologist. So I do have something of a clue, but I am coming from a very different place and I'm excited to hear about your use of social annotation. I think for a lot of people when we talk to instructors and administrators at schools, it's very obvious why social annotation would be used in humanities courses. And it probably is obvious to you guys because you're active hypothesis users, but sometimes it takes some convincing or some discussion to explain why you might use such a tool in science courses. And I hope we can sort of talk that out today. Great to see so many people today. Why this is the biggest turnout we've ever seen for the liquid margins. I don't know if you guys have nothing to do in the summer as being academics. So everybody's here, but I'm glad to see so many folks in the chat. I want to just start by getting to know you all a little bit better, getting to know more about the institution you teach at, the discipline you teach in, and the types of courses you teach, just so we have some context for where you're coming from. And let's start with you, Beverly. I teach at Barstow Community College. We're an institution of about 2100 students. And I teach, we're a department now of three full-time professors and I teach microbiology and majors biology sequence primarily. And then I wander into environmental science as well. But as a community college, we're open access and so I have a range of students who've been in college or who are traditional students. And then I've got a bunch of students who are non-traditional students and everyone in between. So it's a great place. We've been leading into online education as a way to address equity and equity gaps. And so my classes for the last five years have been online. So it's been the addition of hypothesis has been a great tool. Thanks, Beverly. And I can see in the chat that you have some other California Community College folks in the audience here. So you're not alone. I'm just back from OTC in Long Beach, the online teaching conference for California Community Colleges. We have tremendous use in the California Community Colleges. But again, it's a lot, most of it is in the English courses, especially English 1A. And that's at least where it started, but we started to see more and more science courses. Let's go to you next, Melanie, and tell us a little bit more about, like I said, your institution and your discipline in the courses you teach. And I liked how Beverly added a little more demographic context to who she's teaching, what kinds of students she has in her courses. Thank you. Melanie Lenehan. I'm a professor of biology at Raritan Valley Community College. And we are in central New Jersey. And I teach general biology, genetics and cell and molecular biology. Like Beverly at a community college, we do see a range of students that are coming in at all different levels. I do teach the biology I teach is designed for science majors. However, I also get a range of students with different backgrounds that are coming into that course. And that's where I've primarily used hypothesis with my general biology students. And I love it. So I'm really happy to be here to talk with you about how I use it in my classes. Thanks Melanie. To you, Carlos. Carlos, scholar and teaching faculty member at North Carolina State University. So most of my job is developing molecular biology courses for undergraduates and graduate students because as a campus we teach, we offer courses for the entire campus. And it's been great because we assign readings and we have moved to electronic lab notebooks and gone a little paperless and or hopefully mostly paperless. And this ties right in and really allows me to have asynchronous discussions. And with Melanie, Melanie and I have learned together some tricks and some uses. And I think there's a lot more we can learn about the pedagogy side, how to pose questions or encourage and from the students side, how can we make sure they use the resources they annotate afterwards? Lots of fun stuff. That's great. I think you kind of covered this a little bit Carlos, but I sort of want to go back across the, starting with you and go back across like what attracted you to social annotation? Why did you feel like you needed this tool? You talked a little bit about the moving paperless, but you also got into discussion. I mean, why was social annotation a tool that was attractive to you for your molecular biology courses? I think a couple of you have heard this story. It was my great friends and enablers here are the librarians. And I was having a brainstorming session 2018 or 2017 one summer in the library on the whiteboard, how to get students to read what is often complicated molecular biology bioinformatics papers for a broader audience because not everyone has what's rich about these courses is that we get students from all over campus and one of the librarians said, Will Cross said what you need is a hypothesis and that was insulted. I'm like the entire course is based on a hypothesis and we've searched for samples and do things. And I think what really drew me to hypothesis was we can have discussions and share knowledge before we meet in class. And that class turned into virtual class the last couple of years. And yet it was still useful discussions and it's not just rehashing what the main points of the paper are, it's going for what I would call lateral, going with a connections to other papers through links, definitions, finding out a little bit more about the authors and who does the science. That's great. And you're mostly reading what you're saying complicated sort of academic articles and you were sort of getting at the idea that like obviously students are not always coming in completely literate in how to tackle that kind of reading. And this was a helpful tool for them. The instructor sometimes doesn't know because we pick topics. I'm not a bioinformatician, I'm a microbiologist and lots of the tools we're using depend on bioinformatics. So it was a way for us to learn together with me being vulnerable enough to say, what do you all think about this? Yeah, smarter together. I love it, reading in community. Melanie, how about you? Tell us a little bit about what attracts you to social annotation. I don't know if you want to add, I actually don't remember the connection between you and Carlos. So if there is some backstory there, you could also share that with us. But also what attracts you to social annotation for teaching your students, science majors. Yeah, sure. So I've met Carlos in a number of different ways we connected through Bio, which is a summer conference that's actually starting this coming Monday. And then we just connected on a number of different ways through different learning communities. And we actually facilitated a learning community together this past spring. So I'm really happy to be able to work with Carlos on a lot of different projects. And we did give a presentation at my college on hypothesis in STEM. We created a little Slack channel that got some traction. So I could invite others if they wish to join our hypothesis in STEM Slack channel. So that's the connection there. And really my first introduction to social annotation was during the pandemic. Obviously I had not taught online previously. And so that pivot was definitely a huge learning curve for me. And I was introduced to social annotation through actually faculty learning communities. It was not something that I had used in my courses at first. And so I was using these social annotation tools through different learning communities with other faculty. And then I think my connection at my college was with Becky who was on this call who reached out to our college about whether faculty would be interested in using hypothesis in our courses. And at that time I was still virtual online. And I thought this is an excellent way to introduce material to students where we can work asynchronously and discuss papers. I actually my general biology course I don't typically use primary literature articles. Instead news and views articles or something that is going to kind of dive into that topic a little more deeply but it's not so technical that students may get lost in the weeds there. But I really loved using it virtually. And now that we're back in face to face I teach all my courses are face to face now. I brought it back to the in-person classroom because I think it's a great way to connect with students by giving them some reading materials prior to coming to the class or maybe a follow-up discussion that we had where I can link them to a particular article that's going to drive some conversation outside of the classroom. So that was my introduction to hypothesis and using it virtually or asynchronously and then bringing it to the classroom. I've also had students work in hypothesis during class sessions as well. So I think it's great for both asynchronous work and in-person synchronous work. Very cool. I actually want to ask you a follow-up question, Melanie. Just to dig at this, when you mentioned the types of readings that you have students do, right? And you kind of alluded to this one at something of a rehash and I'm somewhat playing devil's advocate but Carlos is talking about reading dense, difficult microbiology academic articles which I think anybody even academics can appreciate that some of their own colleagues are writing in ways that are difficult to interpret. But you're talking about reading more popular journalism or stuff that might be easier to access and might not need the same kind of translation but nonetheless you find social annotation to be useful. Can you just talk a little bit more about like this idea because there's some people that might say like, well, obviously a very dense academic article or maybe a very dense piece of literature needs to be annotated but like an article at CNN like it's a need to be annotated. I suppose it tends on an education level. Tell me a little bit more about the need to annotate maybe more straightforward material. Maybe I'm wrong that it's more straightforward. Yeah, that's a great question. So I can give you one particular example of how I've used it. So again, the article types I typically choose are like a news and views which would be the review article of a primary literature topic. And one, so for example, I'll give you one specific example is that in my general biology course, we talk about enzymes and we talk about enzyme structure and all different aspects of enzyme activity but I would like to relate it to something that is relatable to students and meaningful in some way. And so one of the articles that I had chosen for that particular topic was enzymes that could degrade plastics. And so there's been recent publications on these types of enzymes that are found that can actually degrade plastics and could be very useful for remediation purposes. And so I like to pick an article that I think is gonna engage students and take that topic that we talk about the content in our course and relate it to something that they, I feel that they would relate to. And then in the annotation piece, we can ask specific questions or I can ask them to maybe follow up with an idea that they might have about how enzymes can be used. So that's the level that I use, try to use it as a level of engagement to take them just a little bit further from the content that we're discussing in class. That's great, thanks Melanie. Beverly, to you, what first attracts you to social annotation is a tool that would be helpful to you and your students. Well, I got frustrated with one of my microbiology classes because after an exam it was clear that they hadn't read anything. And so I did a Google search that was just students read tools kind of a thing and I stumbled upon hypothesis and I dove into it and I said, aha, here's how I'm going to foster. I thought part of the problem was that they felt disconnected from each other. And so by forcing them into groups and then saying, okay, we are now going to discuss chapter six, here we go, it forced them to read. And we saw, I saw a test scores go back up to a happier place for everyone. And we had some really good discussion. I could pinpoint easily where students were stuck and where we needed additional resources and support. And it became clear that students had good questions from the material on what they were assigned reading and it just ensured that I knew that they were reading, they were accountable for the reading and then we could dive deeper into areas that interested them. That's great. Forced them to do the reading and then discovering in everybody being forced in there that there's great questions and conversations happening beyond that. So that's not that, I love that. How do you introduce students to the tool or to the idea of social annotation? And let's go into verse order, Beverly. I have an introduction video at the first week's module and saying, here's the tool, here's how we're going to use it, here's why we're using it. And I say, I lay out your in groups so that you have a built in study group for the course and you've got an instant community. Cause typically I have sections or I've got like my microbiology classes is 120 students. And so that's too big to have just one general discussion. So I'll put them in groups of like 10 and then they're more comfortable discussing their ideas and saying, no, I really don't understand X and then we go from there. So are you leveraging the Canvas groups integration where you create groups in Canvas and then, okay. And so different groups are reading the same material but having their own more intimate conversation about it. Yes, and so it would be nice if I had the ability to just post one example annotation that goes across the 10 groups or so. I haven't figured that one out yet. I think we have to figure that out for you actually. That's our job to have the ability to share an annotation in multiple groups. And it is a feature that we've got a lot of requests for and we'll add another tick to the votes there. There is a sort of secret way, I think the backdoor way that we have to kind of ship an annotation to multiple groups. If you get in touch with Aaron or with our support team, we might be able to help you there. Melanie, how do you introduce students to social annotation? I actually have them annotate the syllabus and I just wanna thank Becky on this call. It was her suggestion to give me a resource called Compass Points, like on a compass east, west, north, south, and each of the letters stand for a word. So for example, E stands for excited, W is worried, S stands. And so right at the very beginning of the course, I have them annotate the syllabus. And I have to say this works amazingly well. I get a lot of rich discussion, there's a lot of questions. And I instead of spending class time reading the syllabus, I can assign the annotation, annotate the syllabus assignment. And then when they return to class or if we were virtual, then I can go through all of those points in the syllabus and discuss it in much more detail. So it really serves a few different purposes. One, it introduces them to annotation right at the very beginning of the semester. So they're annotating the syllabus. And two is they're reading the syllabus. So I'm getting feedback and conversation and discussion about the syllabus, which I've never done before. So it's a really great way to introduce, for me to introduce annotation right at the start of the course. Carlos, and just a quick question, Melanie, you're using the LMS integration at your school? Yes, we have campus. And so I'm using the LMS integration in our Canvas course. Okay, great. Carlos, I think you're using hypothesis in the wild at NC State, right? They haven't come around to putting it into the LMS. Still in the wild, I have been trying. And hopefully will. I see more and more instructors using it for different things from courses to seminar series to, for example, our summer research experience. I do not annotate the syllabus. And I've been wanting to do that and I've never had the guts to do it. I'm not sure. But what I've done in the past couple of semesters is we kind of have an annotation exercise, either asynchronously or synchronously either on Zoom or in person. And we annotate a news and views type article or a news article together. And my goals with that is make sure everyone is annotating in a group, in our group because we annotate in groups. I still haven't, although in some cases we have maybe accidentally or not accidentally done it publicly, public annotations. But in most cases I have, we work inside a group and I tell students, okay, today let's practice. Let's annotate this. And we're a group of 10 or 12 or 16. What comes to mind? And what would you highlight with a highlighter and why is this important? And my main challenge is getting people to ask questions and feel okay asking questions. And one thing that I haven't been good at but a really great postdoctoral researcher here really emphasizes it in a different class and helped me think about it more using tags and creating an annotation before and on ontology. What Jason Widdem did for a metabolic modeling of microbial communities class, we shared a spreadsheet and he seated the spreadsheet with some key terms that he took from the community of metabolic modelers and then said in the first hypothesis exercise, use some of these tags and start annotating. But like Beverly, I use a quick introduction video, me showing them how to annotate as best I can within the group and then we either do it asynchronously or synchronously and my two goals are feel free to ask questions and feel free to come up with tags that are different from the ones we have. Cool, Carlos, do you annotate with your students or are they mostly the annotators in your observer? We've done this, this is what I love about being in a teaching program and with, we've experimented a little bit, both IRB approved and just for our own insights. We had one semester where Jason and I tried three variations, instructor not annotating, instructor annotating and before students. And I know Remy Kahlir does it the right way and has done studies, we were basically playing around and then have appear because we have graduate students who are closer in age pre-annotate before. And we saw some trends where our classes are small enough that it's hard to do it with statistical significance. But in some cases that information convinced me that maybe I should lay off my heavy annotations and let students start by annotating with the grad student. So I usually lay low and then I come back and add some comments or I add some annotations so that we focus on certain parts of the article like the scaffolding or seating and then let the conversation go and toward the end bring it back. That's great. Melanie, do you pre-annotate articles for students? Let them have conversation themselves or join the conversation or follow up at a certain point after they've had a conversation or none of the above? I think it's more like all of the above. So I just have to mention, I mentioned earlier that Carlos and I co-facilitated this learning community and what we felt was really useful was having our participants annotate articles and then but we would seed them with the different comments and that became like the stimulus for the conversation and that was like our jumping point for the conversation when we all got to meet. So I do the same for my students. I can seed the article. I think that's a good way to explain like an analogy. Put some comments in the annotation comments in the piece to kind of engage the students in a conversation. I also come back and address the questions that they have them or if oftentimes they will ask a question as part of the annotation and you can create threads which are really useful. You know, you can put links and text and I liked using GIFs. And so I think it's really great. So I think I would answer that question both. You know, I can start some of the annotation but then I always come back and we'll add annotations or add comments and threads that are already existing. I think that's really helpful. Beverly, same question to you about whether you annotate the text as well. And then I'm gonna follow it up with another question that was actually asked in the chat about are you grading student annotations? And if so, maybe a little bit about how. So I don't jump in at first with my microbiology students when they're reading the text. I have them use a tag question. And if I find a question tag then I can jump in and respond with information. And I encourage through direct instruction saying you will use tags if you have to mark your question. If you've got a question or if you've got, if you're answering a learning objective one or whatever in my, when I use hypothesis with my biology majors then I go in and pre-annotate research papers that I assign for reading. And then that helps direct the question from there. And then your follow-up question. Yeah, it was about whether you're grading student annotations. And if so, any guidance around that? So I am grading student annotations and I give them, it's basically participation points. And I say I need to, when we're doing it in microbiology, I say I need to see a minimum of three annotations per section and an annotation can be a question. It can be a definition. It can be an answer to a learning objective. It can include a link to a YouTube video you found helpful, any of those in explaining this concept. And that way I, they have to read the entirety of the assignment otherwise they don't get credit. And I do this similar kind of structure and it's a research article of my biology majors and say, I mean, this many annotations for procedure and this many annotations for results and so forth. You mentioned that they have to read the entire article. How do you ensure that that's happening? There was a question in the chat about this about making sure students are reading and annotating the whole thing. Well, if they're not reading the whole thing and there's no annotation from them at the end of the article. And so therefore they wouldn't get points and my students are highly point motivated. So they want every point possible. So they read it. Got it. So you're looking at where the annotations are in the text to help understand that, okay. I wanna come back to tag. Well, actually I'm gonna stick with you just for a second about tags. You mentioned something about tagging learning objectives. These are things that are in your syllabus or somewhere in the material ahead of class and the students are referring back to it like actually in their annotations using tags. So the learning objectives are in the instructions to them and then they're in the text book will say by the end of this section, you will have learned X, Y and Z. And so learning objective X, tag it when you find the answer and students either love tags or they hate tags. And those who love them then found the power of going through and sorting their tags for their groups tags at the end for study purposes because for the microbiology students, I've started letting them use their annotation notes when they take their exam. And so it's a powerful way for them to build their own study guide without me having to spoon field. Wow, there's so much there. That is super cool use of tags. I feel like for any, we should have a whole episode just on creative uses of tags. Carlos has mentioned it as well. I also really love the idea of having a question in the tags that you know to come back there as the instructor and that idea of learning objectives is super cool. I want us to explore that more. The question is about grading Melanie. Do you grade this in sanitation? So this may be a little off topic. So I'm trying to de-center grading. So kind of jumped on the ungrading train. So I do include, so I have to give something in my Canvas grade book. So I do include points for completing an annotation assignment, but I don't have any specific number or I'm not counting. I really am hoping that they're going to annotate for the sake of annotating. So I do get a range and I do give them credit for completing an annotation assignment, but it's part of a larger bin that I call group or discussion work, in terms of getting a grade for that annotation assignment. But it's very low stakes. I consider this to be a formative assessment, getting some feedback from what they understand. And so that's how I handle those annotation assignments. In an ungrading universe, is social annotation especially helpful in sort of understanding where students are at and how they're progressing? I find it to be really helpful. I think it's very insightful to see what comments that I'm getting and they're kind of gauging their level of understanding some of those comments and then being able to really reach from just from understanding to applying it to another concept or linking out to some other paper or other video. And I find it to be very useful for that purpose. Carlos, you also jumped on the ungrading train or anti-grading train, yeah? But the Melanie is a bad influence or I am a bad influence either way. So I really try to, I haven't gone completely and my wife is on it too and is much more on the peer evaluation and peer grading each other. I have gone to a less gradients and more of a, you did it, you didn't do it and provide evidence and along the lines of what Melanie said, mine are still a grade. But one thing I did this semester with the metabolic modeling class that I inherited that class two weeks before the start of it and Jason got the job but left me with a class that I was not a subject matter expert. So I was like, annotate and let's learn together. And one thing I learned was I usually do Friday deadlines but going back to some of the questions what I did was if you just let me know that you didn't reach your annotation requirement or you didn't annotate that week and return to it the next week or whenever you have time or whenever you make connections with other papers and it was really interesting to see people that for various reasons couldn't annotate that week because of COVID, because of family things because of concepts not knowing the foundations yet returned to some of the previous annotations and did an amazing job. And I wish I had some data Todd in the chat we've been talking about surveys but did an amazing job at now responding to questions based on what they had learned from previous, from future things we read or things we read in subsequent weeks. Now coming back to that article and really annotating and making connections. That's so cool. You mentioned Todd who's been a great participant in the chat here. I do wanna sort of now open it up to questions from the audience and then my colleagues have been collecting some of those but Todd asked a really wonderful question that I'd love to hear you all respond to. He asks, are any of you measuring students, quote, desire or propensity to learn, end quote, before and after using hypothesis? Do you see hypothesis improving student interest and intrinsic motivation to learn? We had talked about reading compliance and this is a, and people a lot of times mention social notation as well that sort of forces students to do the reading. Does it also nurture the sort of intrinsic motivation to do the reading and engage deeply with it? Carlos, thoughts? I think you're still, I know you're unmuted but I can't hear you. I don't know if others can. I'm still thinking. You got me with that. Repeat that. It's a good question, right? It's a good question. That's a really good question. We can also open it up at this point and let people talk over each other but go ahead, Carlos. I was gonna say let others answer while I think about a connection. Desire, propensity to learn or intrinsic motivation to learn? I think that's actually a wonderful question and it's something that I'd like to address but I have not addressed that formally in my course in my courses but I think it's a wonderful question and I would perhaps include that in some of the reflections that I give to my students over the course of the semester. Maybe that's a great idea, Todd. I may add that to my reflection piece and try to get some student feedback there but it's a great question. I would like to think so but I don't have the evidence. I don't have the evidence too but I have an interesting class because our classes are usually lab based although now my labs are becoming more bioinformatics on the computer and we have a 50-50 split of undergraduates and graduate students and the undergraduates are engineers or biologists or life science people and then we have grad students that are from all over. So if you could have bioinformatics or functional genomics or you could have textiles and design and what I've noticed I'm going back to Todd's question and propensity and that's why I was thinking or wanting to learn. I've and I wish I had kept track of this but I've had several graduate students say I now use hypothesis for my research because we learned in this class we annotated it within this group. I have this group for annotations and I'm now continuing to build within that group annotating papers related to my research but using those methods. So in that case, I think indirectly it gets to that question about propensity or desire to learn but they have a different motivation for why they are continuing to use that approach for their research. And I think that's a kind of evidence right there. I don't know about it measuring the intrinsic motivation but certainly everybody here sort of pointed out that students are starting to use the tool in ways that are connecting why do we do the reading? Do we need to do the reading? Yes, and these are the reasons we ask questions we get answers, we explore together. Beverly, you didn't get a chance to chime in on this question of motivation to learn. It's a great question but I don't have any other insights or data on that one. All right, like I said I think you guys have already answered it in a lot of ways in terms of the kinds of work your students are doing. Again, maybe not in terms of whether that individual students have intrinsic desire but certainly in terms of the kinds of work they're doing is they're not just reading for compliance, it's clear that there's reading for comprehension and for critical thinking and for continued research and investigation. For any I see you've come out of muted video there perhaps to share some questions from the audience to help round up the conversation here. We usually stop at around 11.45 but I feel like this is a rich conversation so maybe we can have a few more questions from the audience. Yeah, there are a couple more and I just wanted to let the audience know too that in typical fashion here at Liquid Margins we went over so if you have to leave there will be a recording of this so don't worry and also I'm getting into the process of sharing the chat with people because people seem to want that so that will be available. Both of those will be available next week. So yeah, just a couple questions that you haven't already answered. Melanie Regerio and I hope I'm Madeline, I'm sorry, Madeline Regerio. Hope I'm pronouncing that right. She'd like to know the why of using it and what do you tell them? That was early on in the chat so if it's out of context or referencing something else but I think by it she means social annotation and then also can someone describe how social annotations help students with critical thinking? I feel like we've covered the first half there so let's talk about critical thinking and how you've observed the tool, nurture that skill in your students and my little threesome has been rearranged here so I'm gonna completely shake it up and start this time with Melanie. I think the way that I could relate it to critical thinking is like I gave example earlier is where we discuss a content topic in the course and then use a news and views article and I think they need to think critically because now they need to apply the concept to a real-life example or a scenario and then perhaps during that annotation they come up with their own question so we talked about tags earlier so I don't know if I use tags exactly the way that was described but I use tags like confused or interested or want to know more and so quite often during the annotation of an article they will have other questions and they wanna know more and I think that's part of critical thinking you're taking a concept that you've learned and you're applying it to a real-life situation and then you're thinking about something else that's related to that particular topic so that would be my understanding of using critical thinking. And do you have a set of tags that you suggest students use as they're annotating? Those ones you were just listening? Yeah, so I put that in the assignment so when I create the assignment in my Canvas course I ask students depending on what the assignment is I do ask them to tag their annotations using those terms so that then you can segregate all of the confused or all of the interested and that exactly you can filter them, thank you so that helps to keep the discussion going keep the conversation going. So cool, I bet there's a lot of people in our audience today that would love to see some of the assignments you guys have Beverly, I know you two are using tags in a sophisticated way but the question was about critical thinking is this a tool that helps students with critical thinking from your perspective for how and how? But I think it helps with their critical thinking because I see them carry their information that they question in the text over into our weekly discussions we have a weekly ion ethics discussion and then I can see them link the information that they've digested in their annotations into their ion ethics discussion so I'm seeing application there so I think it's working well. Excellent, Carlos. I just got sidetracked by Kay's comment in the chat. I agree that I think keep learners in these classes that I'm able to teach and now I teach a couple of first the second semester experiences where we use hypothesis. I think they're doing critical thinking because this articles we pick as instructors are challenging enough that we're asking them to make connections. We're asking them to question. So one thing we've done we've teamed up with the philosophy program here and they have a, so Gary Comstock is a professor here and along with a researcher at Harvard, Nate Odi they've developed how we argue and how we evaluate and how we evaluate or how we argue. How we argue is available online as a module and for that 200 level class we have students as an experiment we had students do how we argue first that six hour online class and then annotate or then and critically read and some of the questions that came up about arguments about connections we see them in there going back to metacognition in their reflections we see it in their annotations. So I think it's there even without us having a specific question like how many genomes do they find or why is electronic waste an issue? They've made the connections they are critically not all but they are critically reflecting on why is this what's behind the author's use of words here? Is it something I can judge or is it supported by other evidence? That's great. Thank you Carlos. Fran anything else you want to surface at this point? Yeah, we've got another question this is from Hart Wilson who Hart thank you for being in the chat so often in liquid margins it's always nice to see you. He says it seems to me that general articles like that could also be used to help students become more infotech literate. What are the implications for a discipline that this information is shared with the world at large? Is it any good? Not sure I understand that second part but maybe you do or Hart could clarify. I'm trying to find it to maybe read it one more time. So he says it seems to me that excuse me my gosh seems to me that general articles like that could also be used to help students become more infotech literate. What are the implications for a discipline that this information is shared with the world at large? Is it any good? She, Hart's a she. Oh Hart's a he, Hart second. Yeah does anybody want to take a stab at that? I think the second piece may be talking about using hypothesis and context beyond the LMS but I think we have covered the literacy piece to an extent but anybody want to tackle Hart's question? I'm typing away. Sorry, Hart. So we have and this is Carly Sjögren here at Densey State has a public science, public communication project at this part of this 200 level class and I think that because of what they annotated and they are able to learn the terminology then they are able to better craft this public science assignment by taking what they learned the concepts why is electronic waste in this class interdisciplinary global challenging problem how does a sustainability fit in? They are able to take the facts and express them in their own words for public consumption and I think that to me is a connection of the annotation with the public facing part. That's super interesting. And of course you get some of that effect even if you're working within the circumscribed space of the classroom because you still are sharing that knowledge with a community even if it's not the biggest community at large. Anything else on that topic Beverly or Melanie or if we talked you out here on this Friday afternoon for some of you guys? Well, this has been a great conversation. I really appreciate all of you and I would love to follow up on some of the things we learned here today. As I said tags is a big takeaway for me the very interesting and sophisticated in different ways that you guys are using tags. And if any of you are willing to share your assignments for us to share with our community I think folks would appreciate them as sort of springboards for their own work. But I just wanna close by saying thanks so much for spending time with us. Thanks so much for engaging so deeply with our technology. It's pretty amazing to be working at a place and building a tool and then learn from the users about cool and innovative ways of tools getting implemented. So appreciate your work ahead of this morning as well. Yeah, I just wanna thank everyone so much for being here, wonderful guests, great show. If you do wanna share assignments you can email those directly to me and I will include those in the resources portion of the liquid margins page for this episode. And thank you to everyone who made it here today in the chat, it was a really good chat as well. So I'll definitely be sharing that. And once again, thank you for joining us today and we'll just see you next time on liquid margins. Take care everyone.