 Welcome to the Monday, August 6th meeting of the Mobilear Designer Review Committee. I will let staff and members to introduce yourselves quickly. Hannah Smith. Meredith Crandall. Staff. Stephen Everett. Eric Knowles. Seth Mitchell. Benjamin Cheney. We are advisory to the Development Review Board. We patients are passing forward. Second, all in favor of the agenda. We'll go on to the first applicant. 27th School Street owner of the properties, applicant Chris Gips. I am. How are you? I'm good. Seth, fellas, what you want to acknowledge? The rear of the building stares needed to be demolished for so that we could get to the sill to jack, because the sill was rotted, we had to jack the building up. And the only way to get to the rear sill, because that was hitting on dirt, was to get to tear that off. It wasn't even that. It was about four feet, four and a half feet. It was just wide enough. So, if you look at the last page of the package you have, you can see the Gable Roof stairwell area there on the back. That's what's been taken off. You can't rebuild it unless Chris would approve the stares are much too steep to be rebuilt, and there's not enough room to build proper stares. You'd also have to put in foundation. It's an extreme amount of work. We could. You've got an alternate set of stairs back there. Yeah, we changed it. Yeah, we changed it to go a different way. Anybody needs a refresher? I did bring the full application with me that's going to the DRB tonight. I did review it during the last meeting when we had time. Okay. So, I got an ARTI. We already looked at the stares that were replaced. This is just... it didn't get added. Yeah, just due diligence, my bad, I didn't realize I actually needed a permit to demolish something. Only to build. That's all I thought I needed it for. Any other comments, questions? This is pretty straightforward. I'm going to quickly read through the criteria. Reservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style. Acceptable. Armini exterior design. Acceptable. Compatibility. Opposed to exterior materials. And all this is acceptable. I'm not sure if you can read through the replacement stairs anyway. Compatibility for post-landscaping on 5.4 here. Prevention of use of incompatible designs, buildings, colors, schemes, or exterior materials. Acceptable location and appearance of all utilities. Oh yeah, actually I just wanted to show you that these are the lights that were chosen by my client for... so there's two stair... two porch lights. And that would be these. I can hand these around if you want to see them. In here, the last design review there weren't any pictures, so the approval was that they'd be the same as the ones that were already on the building. But you hadn't actually seen them. This is similar to what's there. And this is just to replace in the porch. To two porches. I'll just make a note. It should be a not-after-reconstruct. What you're seeing is basically an amended application because it's been continued with the DRE that didn't have any review so we're holding this in because this is the back demolition of a part of a contributing historic structure. So if you needed to see it, we just weren't aware that this had happened until after the last meeting. Yeah. So this appeared last time. I just said that demolition was approved. And it was amended. And the application was amended. And the replacement stairs were previously approved. We have multiple copies if you want. I don't know if you want to read it. Nope. This will go to the DRB. Can I report on it? Hold it in. Thank you all. Sorry to wait. Thanks very much. Thank you. Thank you. The next application Well I'm not Bob. Yes. I'm Justin. Justin McCabe. That's correct. So I work for a law firm up in Burlington called Dunk Hill Saunders Elliott Rubble on hand. This is our new Montpelier space that we're moving into with Ed Bob's establishment. The sign as sort of laid out in the application is a posted sign approximately 40 inches by 30 inches I believe. And sort of as portrayed there in the photographs and the chart. This sign is not on the road. It's not on State Street. It's actually off back next to the building. There's a stone wall that's been built between the building and the, or the stone wall, a space in the building and the sign is actually going to sit in that spot. So it won't be really viewable from the parking lot once you've entered that parking area. Is there a separate street number on that building itself? Or is that included with the main building on the front? Yeah so the main building on our front is 153 State Street. So we were just assigned 151 about two weeks ago. Okay. Yeah. Not yet. I believe Bob's plan is to put a 151 on there. We're still working out with the post office as well where the mail is going to go to or not. I'm assuming you might put that on the building. That's just your driveway isn't it? Yeah. The reason I'm asking that is that somebody's going to have to find you before they see the sign. Yeah. We don't really intend for this to be a place for people to walk in and sort of find us. We want people to go to our Burlington office. We don't know if this will be fully staffed all the time. There may be only three days a week or so. So it's not really intent. It's only for people once they're, we've told them where we're going to be and they should find us then. Are you the only occupant in this building? From a business standpoint, yes. There's two lawyers. But yes, we've rented the entire building. Can you speak to the sign? It was what was proposed by our signage folks up in Colchester or Essex Junction. It mimics the sign that we have in Burlington at this point. The branding does, yep. So basically the top of the sign is if people borrow you right when they see your sign, that's your intention. I don't think it needs to be. This was really what was proposed by, like I said, our signage folks. They wanted to actually make it much bigger because they felt it was so far from the road. I did not think that was necessary. As I said, it sort of mimics what we have in Burlington. It could be shorter. It could be smaller. I think that's all sort of. Looking at this picture, really fairly big. It's meant to be seen from the parking lot. I think it could be a lot smaller or it could be better. I'd be a little concerned. I mean, there is a lot of parking going on there, so I'd be concerned if it got too small that it could be obscured by a truck or something else in the vicinity, but I'm not opposed to a smaller sign. How far from the street from the sign itself? Well over 100 feet. So it's quite a distance. You're not really going to be able to see the sign from the street anyway. Yeah. I mean, we could have put it on the building, but Bob would rather as not. So that's why we've posted it. Respecting the building is great. I think it could go a little over there because really nobody can park in front of this at all because it's searchable. That's true. That's very true. For me, I don't mind the size. It's just the height. I'm not dropping a little bit further down. So alignment to the bottom of the windows on the front of the building. Yeah, that's what you mean. The top of the sign aligns with windows sill. Such a nice intimate building. You want your sign to read. I think going lower would be a little better. Just start to scale and make the sign look bigger. It possibly could. Because it's just 32 inches across the top. I think it would be better smaller. That's such a careful job. Yeah, absolutely. What size would you suggest? 26 by 42. 2 by 3. What is this parking space? Is it just for... You know, I honestly have no idea right now if it's a built area that can't be parked in at all. So I'm not really sure what that was supposed to be. Is anybody else using it? The people from 153 are using the building. They use all the parking in the parking lot. I know the candy cat parking space is going to be on this side right there. Particular spaces. Possibly, yeah. No. I don't like to work late. Yeah, something that big. Sure. For sure. In other words, societal size. Proportions don't quite work. You don't keep the same proportions, which is generally, if you reduce the top to 3 feet, then do the proportional sign. Yeah. Preservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of proposed projects in the historic district. Also the historic structure of the central exterior design. Construction of the use of incompatible designs. Recognition of and expected for view quarters. Significant vistas. Performance with city scape placement. Compatibility with subject property and adjacent properties. Shall not obscure significant consistency and uniformity of multiple sciences. Thank you very much. Next application for 17th Court Street. Hello, thank you. You know, barbers for centuries have had some sort of symbolization outside of their establishment. And in this case, as a standard barber pole, it's a real symbol in that when the pole is spinning and it's illuminated to mean the barbers inside the shop working and available to take customers. This is my first shop and after 31 years of barbering. And I've always dreamed since I was 16 years old of having a pole up. It's been sitting in my shop for the last 2 weeks and I've just been dying to get here to get this thing up. So that's really it. It does be late in turn, but only during my business hours. I don't have any problem with that internally with signs. I don't have any problem with it at all. It is. What is the lighting? It's a fluorescent tube bulb. Essentially yes. I mean I think this is fantastic. I love this idea. And I'm also just curious, are there any other professions that don't use words for signage that are known and therefore is it really a sign if there's no words? I mean, I don't know if it's necessarily a sign in the sense that we... I think it's good to have it. I just wonder about it. Call it a sign or is it a decorative light fixture? A sign is a decorative light fixture. Really? Yes, there's no words on it. What's the definition of a sign history? It's something that certainly beats Barbershop. I have no idea about that. It's just what all of our shops have at it. Yeah, I know. I get it. There's precedent. There's precedent. There's no precedent for one. I don't have any problem with it. You know there's a really nightly... It's when you wind up and it runs all day. Oh, I didn't know that you could wind it up. Oh, wow. That's awesome. He's had it for... It's Master's Edge. It used to be Yankee Clipper. It's got my hair since I moved from it. I'm not a good editor. He's awesome. That guy's great. That's it. Well, I mean, Yana, the property manager for Lake Point that manages this property, she has a sign that was already on the other side of the building already, I think, on through design review. And so Audra said that because that the sign I wanted was going to overdo the amount of square footage allowed for building. So I did have something on this little area here, but I was like, you know, since there's no reason to... Right. You know... Do you have to do the circle over? Is that the door that you would enter into to go into your business? Yes, sir. So it's a sign recommendation to consider the law of code? Well, there's the thing I had missed, the internally illuminated signs, except they're specifically allowed under these regulations. At least you have that enough to perform which I think I do. And let's just say it's not. There's a sign where it's a a light fixture. I guess we can make that determination, can't we? There's no words. I'm curious about the mounting. That's a clavoured front on the building, right? I don't know exactly what it was to balance with you. It's like there's a metal piece and then little brackets that fit on that that screw into the wall. Yes, yes. It's actually a plug-in. So there's a... I don't know if you can see on the drawing, right above it, on the top of the... in the middle of the roof, there is a light fixture on it and it would just go up and I was going to get some of that waterproof to hide the cord. Well, in the inside, you just flip a switch and it puts that light on sending current to that particular fixture. I really like signs like that. I'm hoping to retire. I'm going to buy that building very soon. I'll be very upset but I would love to stay there until I can't cut hair anymore. Hopefully as long as the guys have. I think Guy is well into his 70s. My dad's 77, he's still cutting hair every day. Do you think if this thing were to move out onto one of these posts, it would be more visible? You know, I think so but I kind of like the fact that it's protected from the weather underneath versus the post. It might have some exposure to weather. With the recent rainstorms that we've had there's been water almost all over that deck, even beneath. So I would prefer to have it protected. It is rated for indoor and outdoor use but just for safety's sake I beg the differ. I probably got 10 walk-ins today. There's a lot of traffic on Court Street. Yes, state building. Yeah, it's been a fantastic. I had a very large following at Miles Court. I was there for three years and my client told me this was about 1,800 people. I thought 75% came there and it's been great so far. I've been very happy. Questions, suggestions for the light fixture? Preservation, reconstruction of the compatibility of respect for view quarters? Can you sit out here and wait? Yes, but there will be two Adirondack chairs there very soon. You can sit there and read the newspaper. I'm going to come in now because there's air conditioning inside so they don't want to sit outside. Okay, sign there. Thank you, sir. You guys have a great evening. Thank you. Next application is for 125 Berry Street, another way. I should say that I work for the Preservation Trust and we have a very small loan to help this project. So we have recent renovations nearly finished and we are looking to paint the Berry Street facade and the side facade which is facing Central Vermont Solid Waste Management. Only the first and second layers because we can't, the quote that we got for the rest of it was way too much. It was out of our range so we're just doing those first two levels at this stage. Not the dormers? Not the dormers at this point. Only two sides? The quote that we got to do the whole building was $25,000 and we are not anywhere near that. The paint that we're getting for this is actually donated from Sherwin Williams and so this is what we can do at this point and we're not going to do the porch at this point. We do plan to do it later but this is pressure treated. It's a whole new porch so we'll be doing that next year after the SAP first season. It doesn't match perfectly but I got it as close as I possibly could. Yeah. I wanted it painted a light color but I also don't want because we're doing it in these stages I didn't want it to be such a difference in the color so it's aluminum siding and it's kind of a slate blue so this downing slate was the closest that I could find to that. Are they using the area? They are. Yeah. Besides that location I found it when I was freezing it. Yeah. I was going to do this color and then do the trim a light color and then do the porch a lighter color. So that's the plan, the long term plan. So. Yes. Yeah. Is this bit of siding going to be finished or is that? That already is. It's all finished. Yeah, it's already finished. No, that we actually plan to keep white. It's vinyl siding so this is the plan to keep that white. Yeah, so the before and after is already pretty good. I want to get some paint on there to make it better. Yeah. Yeah and so I guess I would just do another application or amend this application at that point. I think two years is good. Yeah, we partnered with Good Samaritan Haven this past season and we actually served twice as many people as we did last fiscal year. If it's sitting idle for a few days and they can get up and do that whole thing in a day. Oh, we could do that. It's a good relationship with Steve too. That would be great. We would likely donate it. Yeah, I've got a maintenance guy who can do that. That would be awesome. The lift was part of the issue and then when we went with a company there, the quote was high. I rented it also. He really is. Great. Wonderful. Congratulations. It's been a long haul. It's great to see it all done. Any comments, questions, suggestions? I'm going through the criteria here. Preservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style is acceptable. The views of animal designs, buildings, color schemes, or exterior materials is acceptable. No change in utilities, lighting, or anything. No, that was in our previous. Recognition of and respect for view quarters. That was acceptable. All in favor of the application. I'll stop by. The interior is quite amazing too now. Thank you. Have a great night. Next application. City of Montpelier for the school district. Perfect. All we're doing is we're going to relocate. The storage said that the UES to back behind the middle school where there currently is a smaller shed. I'm curious where the shed is coming from. It's right on the east side of the elementary school on Park Street. It's right in the, tucked in a corner there. And this is behind the middle school and that shed currently exists. Correct. And that's going to remain. So there will be two sheds. There used to be a shipping container there, right? Is that still there or is that gone? That's gone. Storage space is the first thing to go. That way just for the record for the application. Andrew La Rosa. Capital R. Correct. If nobody has anything else to suggest I'll run through the criteria for this one. Preservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style. I'm probably missing the life of the storage. We don't know. Harmony of exterior design. Acceptable. It's an existing shed. It's just going to be compatibility for post exterior materials. Acceptable. Compatibility for post landscaping. Not proposed. Prevention of the use of incompatible. Signs, buildings, color schemes or exterior materials. Acceptable. Location of parents of all utilities. Not applied for. Recognition of and expect for view quarters. Significant vistas including gateway views of the state house. Probably not applicable here in the back of the school. I wouldn't exactly call that a gateway view of the city. Any comments or questions? Otherwise all in favor of the application? Raise your hand. If only. Now we've got a firm from Weitzfield coming over and moving it for us. From the high school we moved out of there. We got all the kids library and boxes. It's carried a box. They got on a school bus. They hauled them to the new school. They did something like that similar. Now the high school is the last week of school. They kind of help clean out stuff. Thank you very much. One of the cool things about the barber poles, you have to be a licensed barber to have a barber pole out front. It's not a cosmetology that they're the only ones. They made them take it down on Elm Street when John retired. The ladies had cosmetology or whatever. They were hairdressers, not barbers. So the state made them take the barber pole down. Very interesting. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for the reference to the course of the meeting. The detail that provided it wasn't about to finish was something that was in the sense concerned with some of the growth. Your motion to approve them separately was separate for each one. So we'll hear a motion to approve Monday, July 16th. Second. The three in favor? Any comments on the 1-4? All in favor of the June 18th. Any comments? I'll do a report on the new design review. We've got a meeting Thursday night. They're actually in pretty good shape. I think after Thursday night when we get done, I think we ought to mail them out to design review. It's been a bit of a slot. Regulations often are. Then after that, they go to planning commission. I don't imagine we'll be done with it until the first year. I don't know. I'm going to go make a report to the planning commission. I don't think their next meeting is until 27th or something. Or they have full agenda. But it's going along. I don't think it's going to be a drastic change what we do now. The list, this checklist is going to be a little bit different. Mail them out when we get whatever we do on Thursday night. Or if you guys like to see mail them out. And then you could comment if you have to. Wait, if we get any comments we have time, then we'd be able to avoid those thoughts. When you mail out what you've got, I'll just forward that. Yep, great. Any other business next meeting, office of 20th? And do I hear a motion to adjourn? So moved. Do I hear a second? Thank you very much.