 the meeting to order and the first item on the agenda is public comment, this is for comment for anything that's not listed on the agenda. No parking for those people. I just, I just want to apologize to you, everybody here, my father's out first at the last, maybe he can have a short fuse if anybody could. So my apologies. Actually, the agenda is approval of the agenda. Make a motion to approve the agenda. Second all those in favor? Any other time? Opposed? No. Motion carries. This item is the road reclassification of discontinuous decisions. So, have our employees make the road by road. Well, the depot has some information I think you should share with the board. It was just a conversation that I had with the town security recently and you mentioned that typically when these processes happen, there's the opportunity to have the road that will not change classification or not be recommended, frame change at all could be discussed in general. And then if the board chose, it could have, it's called a deliberative session, which is actually recommended by a town attorney and it's a discussion that a process should happen in that process. So I wanted to share that with the board before we continue. But Doctor, why is that the recommendation of the attorney? This process is what he refers to as a quasi process. So it's not one that's required to have. And then it's the general law, the general record keeping in form of just the fact that the decision was rendered, the board reviewed it. The decision is going to be reported by the clerk. And so it's just a recommendation by the attorney to actually have this deliberative session so that the board can speak about every potential option that they would like to be considered. I guess I understand still why that is a actual recommendation. I understand why it's allowed. Yeah. But what interest of the, a potential interest of the board would serve for to enter a deliberative session part of the attorney's recommendation? Just a tool that's available to the select board. So that the select board can have a discussion through a deliberative session so essentially what would happen is select would would recess the meeting, enter a deliberative session, potentially discuss options that are available that the community would share with us about potential business expansion, something that may not be made available to the public yet, something that may want to keep private. So that's where the select board can discuss those options. After the fact, they then end the recess, return to the meeting, and announce the decision. Thank you. It's used a lot as a developer reading board. So we've been talking about real specifics about something and trying to figure out if people compromise on things to come up with a final written decision to consider that option. You know, actually back and forth with each other. So you found that a really useful tool in that setting that people make decisions that you feel are better than they would have otherwise been made? Just going to do that again with you. Okay, so I have a thank you comment here. So for those of you in Rome, you most of you know that I was not here in the present last meeting when you guys all had your public time. But I do want to share with you that I have viewed the video numerous times. And so I do know what a lot of you said and the comments that were made that were available to me through Oracle Media's ability to record that. And I've spent a great deal of time thinking about this and looking into a lot of stuff as a matter of fact probably all over 45 to 50 hours now. And so I just want you to all know that any decisions I make I'm very well informed of what the opinions were or what the thoughts were. I did go on every site visit. So I was present in every site visit even though some people weren't there. So just to clear the record here that I may not have been at the last meeting but I'm certainly up to speed on what went on during that meeting. Taking one by one again? Well, here's what I'd like to do. So I think my thoughts are that if there's anybody here that has anything to add to what was discussed and maybe not discussed at the last meeting I'd like to hear it now. And then after that I would like to move into any deliberative session part of this. I may have one more suggestion. One option would be if the board were to consider not taking any action on any one of the roads it could make a decision before entering the deliberative session or it could make all the decisions during the deliberative session. So really what it's up to the select party could enter the deliberative session work through that process or it could make a decision that it doesn't think it needs to take on any roads it could make it before deliberative session and then entering the deliberative session. This is an option. I have a fascinating question about the process I don't really understand. The deliberative session that means that you guys would like to excuse yourself from this room and then we wouldn't have any like input into the decision making process at that point. Is that what you would do? What we would do is give you the ability to add to the record or to the discussion anything that we haven't heard yet or new information you want the board to consider and then the board recesses the meeting and meets and cameras for each one of them. And so the board would make privately then to make the decision and that meeting wouldn't be videotaped or so we wouldn't have an idea who said what or who voted on what or correct. The decision that comes out has to be signed by all the board. Yeah I mean I'd like to know like how everybody on the board focus on you know and honestly I'd like to know I'd like to in the interest of transparency be able to see you know and be part of the discussion you know so I'm not really I mean I let's have it out in the open. So good for any new information? We're not concerned. I'm sticking out for a dance here. So do we have anybody who wants to present more information about their road or what we've gotten to date? I've submitted a bunch of written for you know give your name for the record for Charlie Bacon. I'd submitted a bunch of written stuff I just wanted to confirm that you all had that. Yep yep you all had that on my reddit. Okay. Thanks for sharing that too. I guess I have a can I ask a question of the board about the topic? Okay. Can you speak to the public good the public good that is planned to be achieved? Oh so this is this is a CJ Stump from East Randall so the my understanding is that any road reclassification or that the town's management of the roads is for the public good. We heard that Adolfo that you had asked the road crew about whether they had any concerns and that they had given you a list and so that seems important but then in the hearings what became clear is that the public good was larger than than one single group of people the ones that are equipped and hired to keep our roads maintained and clear and passable and that is the question that I wanted to have answered because I went back through the record and I went to the ORCA recordings too and went back through the board meeting minutes and I wasn't sure I saw that picture of looking at the whole town our whole community and the consideration so I thought I guess I should ask you before I you know just what is the public good? I can add a number of different things in conversation with the town's attorney it's an all-encompassing phrase that includes any number of things that includes public safety it includes access to recreational opportunities it includes access to you know any number of different things and whether the elected officials and town staff after considering all the facts that was submitted by town residents or through the site visits or any number of information that is available all placed part into whether it is part of the public good whether maintaining a road will benefit the town as a whole or whether the town is a whole will benefit from maintaining a road to class B standards or class 4 standards or whatever standards are imposed by the state so that's what it's a vague term but it means whether it's a public good to the entire town to maintain a particular road to a certain standard including in addition to the safety concerns or any issues of a public vehicle making its way up into a road I think the other piece that always falls public good to Perry in the article that the paper that was written that that we all read was the definition necessity necessity goes along with public good so you know generally was public good but what is the necessity to the town to the taxpayer to the general public for whatever that service may be so that's really how I looked at it was what is the necessity to the town of random I'm looking at this could you go and look at that in reverse hang on just a second please if you look at that in reverse today when you are trying to take land is what a room is and you're reviewing you know whether it's there's a need for it part of the hurdle you have to get over is that what is the need for the community for the town and for the public piece of it so if it's to access a recreational opportunity if it's to access a an area where you can put a school where you're going to put some type of public infrastructure for something that's there to benefit the public then that becomes your your reason when you get through the court proceedings and all that for a necessity hearing so it's a the definition of it you know basically what is the public gain by having that room and owning that right away or that infrastructure so in addition to that I want to share with you folks some stuff that so so like I told you I struggled with a lot of this and this is a very difficult situation for all of us so what I did was I started researching what's the definition of public good and this came about I think when Mr. Sargent in his comments in the last meeting said what's the criteria you know why is this why now okay so the town does have a road policy that I believe was adopted in 1996 I think so you can go back and you can look at that okay and there's standards in there for how roads are created how roads are discontinued and so a lot of this stuff goes back ages and ages and ages okay and so in this process I found the document that was written by Paul Gillies and you know he's our attorney and he's well respected throughout the state regarding public roads highways, town roads those kind of things and if you read through that document you will find that at different points in time public good changed so there was mentions in that situation where years ago public good was to pull timber out so that communities could flourish because of logging okay and sawmills and then it became we need to get products to market and so then farmers became necessary for public good so we needed highways or roads to go to different farms just so that they could get their products to town so over the years public good has changed and so like I said I struggle with this whole process and you know I know most everybody in the room I know most everybody's roads been here all my life I know exactly what happened on those roads I know some of these roads are discontinued I got out of Beers Atlas you know and I looked at all these roads and I said oh well that one there used to go through to here and how come it stopped well because that property owner bought all that land around that road and he asked the town to discontinue it well they didn't continue to discontinue the road to his property because at that time it may have been a farm so the public good was we're gonna keep that road open so we can get his products to market so through this process you know it's it's it's been an evolving thing and it's called change and in my opinion you know we're at a different juncture here and in this particular community you know we struggle with in my pet peeve here is you know economic development you all know that okay I was I ran on that platform and I'm standing behind that platform and so you know I think that if we were a healthy vibrant community I wouldn't have this conversation other towns you know they don't worry about it you know they're doing other things they've got more resources they have a higher stronger tax base we don't have that right now we're struggling for those of you who might not realize this our grand list does not grow as fast as our need for cash to support community and so therefore that is why I think that this community needs you know an economic development boost and I've been working hard at that Trini's been working hard at that I think all of us on this board are looking at that this is why we made the decision to hire an economic development coordinator and unfortunately this situation with the roads right now has become a hot button because we're covering the expenses of roads that I personally don't think we should plow or should we should take care of because there was some side deal made 30 40 years ago or the road was discontinued so like I said I struggled with it I spent well over 45 hours looking into this Chris's comments you know triggered my thinking process and so it's foiled down to what's the public good currently to keep these roads open so that's my comment and that's where I stand let's make it a comment Tim Angler self-rend off if you're saying that's not in the interest you know in public good then any street in the village or any road in this town that just had the residents in it are exactly the same situation as these 17 roads so why is it these 17 roads aren't the public good but the other ones that it's not necessarily some of these these are serving residents okay so some of these roads serve multiple residents there's multiple landowners on both sides of them you can't shut down a road that's got multiple properties beside you but there's other roads here that are one-home roads that should not be taken care of by the public and so the town in my opinion is taking care of a lot of stuff we shouldn't be taking care of different levels there's certain things that are important okay I'll give you a perfect example your situation okay you've got a public good on your road okay we need that that that dry hydrant okay if every one of these roads have dry hydrant on it then my decision would be easy but it's not that simple so I that's where I that's where I'm at here I don't know where the rest of them are but that's why that's where I'm standing I was going to make a comment just a second we have somebody ahead of you you can just state your name for the record he has Diana Daughty Jackson Roode Marendel I've been I don't like to say this I've been a nurse for nearly 40 years and I think one of the biggest issues that I have with the closure of any road if we end if we wanted a home on a class 4 road we bought one it would have been assumed that we would maintain it you know so forth but if you change let's just say Jackson Road to a class 4 road we won't have the maintenance we won't have the plowing we won't have the sanding anything you are actually endangering people's medical safety and lives by closing a road that is currently a class 3 road we bought it as a class 3 road the expectation is it would maintain that so if I have a fire at my house I have a heart attack ambulances and fire trucks cannot get to my home and I died you know so it's more of a I know that sounds really extreme but being a nurse for 40 years I'm telling you it happens all the time you know I understand the need to budget I totally get that have done that in the past but you know you have to consider people's welfare and when we're talking about community good is not the safety medically or physically the properties that pay taxes in this community not worth saving you know we have farmers that need to get their crops to market you know you're messing with people's livelihoods as well as their their medical well being and that may not seem important to this board I can't say if it is or not you know with all due respect you'll have a very hard decision to make but you've got to consider what you're doing I understand if a road one owner and they want it shut down we're not asking for our roads to be shut down we're asking for them to be maintained and open and you have budgets I understand there's money involved in this but you know it all ends up being how to bring those to standard and even if you took one road a year or one road every two years and maintain that road and get it through the standard you know some of us are willing to even give some land in order to accomplish so I think that that needs to be a consideration before you make your decision so I guess I'd ask where would you draw the line right so my neighbor has a driveway that's one point something miles long has to take care of it themselves their medical challenge isn't any different than your medical challenge so if we use that argument where do we draw the line of whose road do we maintain at a class three level and whose do we not I mean using the medical argument we should go through every single homeowner's property and maintain their driveway I didn't ask for the driveway I said the road leading to the driveway my driveway is very long and I maintain that she was in my neighbor's right so where is that but you're pushing the cost of road maintenance onto the property owners it's not even the cost not you I mean the issue there is quite different where you know if your neighbor decided to build a house and build a driveway and maintain it that was his choice at the time I was not seeing that I understand your your argument on the property those of us who bought that and had homes on these roads bought them you know we went in with our eyes wide open I could have chosen to buy a house that was on a road that I needed to maintain but that's not what was offered and you know we all in most cases paid a premium for that and continue to pay the higher taxes because of that you know right so you're talking about dry land yeah I'm not I'd like to you know you should explore the higher taxes well I mean you can look at the listing sheets and it shows very different grades for the building site and our proposal partially mentions the town road as part of the valley but then you know that is a different situation where everybody here bought their properties knowing that that was that was part of it and by taking that away or since they're taking what we purchased as an asset and turning it into a liability that makes the recent values significantly diminished and you're still doing that on the potential mortgage impacts I think too great thank you well that's the idea but I'm sure I know you better didn't invert okay so we're we had somebody else originally this whole thing came about because we all received a letter saying that the reason for this was safety issues so my question is all of a sudden here tonight it seems to be everything but those safety issues when we specifically asked is this a money issue we were told no so why are we having all of this conversation now if it were just originally a safety issue the main issue we had when we were trying to resolve those and we thought if those safety issues could be resolved then there should not be a problem any other way so when you look at the safety issue on a lot of these roads it ties all of it in right so as Perry was explaining a lot of these were through roads and then either prior to or during the ancient roads process that the state had us go through a lot of these were given up beyond a certain point and so now what you have is basically a width of right away between 10 and 14 feet seems to be what most of these are the dead ends so when you go in to maintain that road the towns require to stay on their own right away so when we go in on that right away we're supposed to be coming back out on that right away in a lot of these cases we're turning around in people's yards and on land that's not part of our town operating right away right so now when you look at it you need to if you're going to continue that practice the town would need to enter into some type of an agreement whether we purchase land to turn around on whether we enter into a lease agreement whether we enter into some type of document with that landowner to have access to that area that we'll be turning around in so as soon as the town goes to take on an additional liability we have to show that it's a necessity and it's in the public good and that there's a reason that we've made that decision to take on that additional effort and that's where it gets into the whole definition of public good what is what is the benefit from the town taking that step and incurring that cost and and taking that effort and that's all part of what we're looking at when we look at a couple of these roads we have dry hydrants on completely easy to say to find public good on that one right because we're in areas where there's no water and a committee decided we needed a dry hydrant there we have one that has a grant agreement with it that says the town will maintain the road the other one was an agreement with the town in which the town provided some of the materials and the property owner did some of the construction and the agreement was always that we would maintain that area there's no grant agreement that's probably the hydrant program to get dry hydrants funded wasn't in place at that time but you know those are the simple ones so on all these other ones we do have to look at what the cost is to the town to acquire that to to make it so it'll support the trucks and the turnaround and does it make sense for the town to go through and acquire that additional real estate in whatever way it is whether it's a right-of-way lease outright purchase whatever and make the necessary changes that are needed to get our trucks in there and turn around safely so so I want to it's a lot before you for you guys I'll ask the question so I want to throw a couple just put yourselves in our position so do you honestly think that we should continue plowing the road because 30 years ago the town manager lived at that house and we provided services to that house okay do you honestly think we should continue to plow this we can't turn the truck around there okay we plow it with a pickup truck and we plow it because the town manager around the house there's some other stories that go with that same particular house but do you think that's something we should do I don't think so okay so we're caught in some situations here do you think we should plow another road because some guy was chief of the fire department and at that time it was deemed public good to get him out of his house but now that house has been sold three times so we're still plowing the road why should we plow that road so some of those decisions are really easy for me okay some of these decisions are easy because of services that are on those roads some of these decisions are easy because there's multiple property owners adjoining these roads I'm struggling with the tough ones here which is why am I plowing this road that goes here to one homeowner okay because I live on a road and yeah I chose to build my house out there and there's three of us living on the road and I could petition the town okay to take over my road we built it within town specs personally I don't want the town plowing my road I don't want that road to be a public road because I don't want anybody parking on that road okay at 10 o'clock in the night or midnight or two o'clock because they can all right because if they want to go hunting at four o'clock in the morning during hunt season I can't throw them off that road so I'm not going to petition the town take over a road and our neighbors and my neighbors have all agreed we're not going to do it but so this is the struggle there's a lot of things that went on 10 years ago 20 years ago 30 years ago 100 years ago okay better not relevant today and so this is the struggle that I'm having is how do I make everybody happy here because I got people saying to me why are you plowing that road you know you're not plowing my road so what are we supposed to do we're in a hard place here so this is why personally I'm the one that asked for the delivery of session you can blame that on me because I don't think any of us should be subject to having to tell you folks how we all voted okay I just think that in my mind this is a discussion that should happen here and you know we make a decision as a board and I think that's what we make so I'm sorry if you feel different but you know it's just the way I feel about it okay come Chris I have just a comment and we're a point of interest for you guys and then a question um point of interest is is that I took a moment and talked to a former Lister in town just to get his perception on whether it would the value of my property would change and he said is about a 10 percent difference in the property value and this was a former Randolph Lister so I mean we've been doing it for quite some time so I'd say he's called by to make that particular judgment the other thing I have is a question for those of us who met with the town manager and other town staff and talked about sort of how we could manage whatever the issues are is that something you guys are going to be taking into into consideration you know I mean I talked to the town manager about possibly installing guardrail you know it's probably something I'm willing to talk about the cost of to some extent but you know is that are these things going to be taking into your consideration that was the question that I don't you know there's because we're not having a transparent process here which is within your right I mean it absolutely is I understand what you're doing and it's perfectly legit but it means we don't know sort of how does the fine details are being made absolutely no question can we see the Randolph answer your question but anything that's come in so far in the discussions and whatnot will be part of the discussion I want to agree when we get to that though if we look at that as an example the discussion of whether the town and that's in installing guardrail and whatnot then we have to cross the hurdle of public good it's not as easy as do we just take this person up on the office I'm sure that would be good but see you Dave thanks for me on the economic argument Harry and I are very much in line we're both very we want economic development and Randolph I'm on the budget committee as Mr. Brand knows and one of my things that I'm always asking about as they actually at all when like both knows the road budget is about 1.7 million a year it's about half of Randolph's annual operating costs and so up forever going hey is there any way we can look and break that down a little and just see if there's anything to be gained so when this came up even though my road went on and came off the list I was interested in whether we would get a good economic bump by taking all these roads 17 roads and no longer doing anything to them so being a business development person and they actually sent me to like a school on everything I do my back of the envelope math and it looks like we actually economically end up worse off and the reason is Chris got to it and actually one other person that was affected I know spoke with a listener and was given about a 15% plus or minus so not too far off from Chris's estimate and I had to realize that some of these roads like ours served multiple residences and obviously ours went on and came off but I was but because they're on your whiteboard is one house roads and because when they came up it was initially an economic argument we will save money by taking the roads off then it became a safety argument but back tonight we never returned to economics so I thought that the back of the envelope calculation might therefore be germane and just I'll just throw it in if we have approximately 20 affected properties and we see the conservative 10% decrease in property values at an average revenue per property in the more rural areas of four to $6,000 in annual taxes that decrease would be about 700 per property times about 20 is $7,000 versus a projected savings and I'm using the original figures provided in the original board meetings of I think it was 1200 for net loss of about $5,800 forgive me I'm pulling this off the envelope in my head but so from an economic standpoint we're actually better off trying to maintain the property values and investing in the things that we know will limit people acquiring properties in town such as do they have access to broadband and are they maintainable over a winter so we've got like a backlog of old farmhouses that people aren't used to thinking about spending you know 10% of their time carrying wood to the woodstone and that you know limits they're being able to be sold so from like an an economic analysis I think we actually are better off leaving the roads from a safety standpoint if you've been a nurse for 40 years and you can't get out of your driveway yeah I'm actually on call right now so I would do fair or terrible if you were stuck at the end of your road with a heart attack but I would feel even worse if I was stuck at the end of my road with a heart attack so I want you to be able to get to work so it's it's very difficult and I recognize that you guys have a difficult situation but I also want to point out that it's a really multifactorial calculation involving safety involving economic responsibility and then lastly do I think that town managers should have gotten an agreement that was in perpetuity with the town 40 years ago I don't know maybe not but I don't know it was under the table it could have been I know there's no doubt in my mind it was yeah and like there's other components of that that were the same way yeah no I hear you and I'm not I would say we should not be doing those in the future but if they were done in the past and people in good faith sold the property and another person in good faith bought a property based on that understanding and is now looking at the cost of either years and years of having to pay to get their road as well as their drive maintained or possibly the cost of acquiring the equipment required to do it and the time and the risk I do think that the town should continue to stand by its agreement even if it was a bad agreement as long as there's not even even though if there was an agreement that's the problem right but this might be a lawyer question yeah certainly it could probably be one yeah anyways thank you for letting me speak but I didn't want to just address the economic part just the correct one thing there's no way we could have maintained all 17 of these for $1,200 a year the just the okay more than $1,200 for a year to maintain all those yes right I was using the estimates from the select board meeting in 2016 was it December 2016 it was that was the minutes more than $1,200 but it's the table I think actually it was around that need to 10,000 and then take out the state aid I think it was a net of about $7,000 $7,000 last I think yeah that was all the money I've never heard before yeah yeah so that oh you see that number of pounds all over the place yeah and then that pass is already going to go up not that it matter and you know it doesn't matter right but also we're water rules and all that also it's not like you're gonna oh we get for these 17 rows so we can we need one less value one less drop you're not going to eliminate any people or any crowds you know cost is don't go down around here no that's actually an excellent point maybe you're advertising yeah yeah you know anybody's game where's they I'm I'm just timing and period you know Miller obviously everything's not in town all about account account of it they could also actually have got an empty downstreet so that says a lot all of my clients comes out of a town there's a lot of people here to do and had all they can't even eat and count anymore yeah it's pathetic and you can't get a copy here at nine o'clock in the morning you can't eat here whatever my clients can't believe the lack of what's here at this point it hasn't been this way until this year so he's not all the time within two years trying to decide whether we should go out town or Ocidot and we haven't been spending time actually focusing on our to finish sure that focusing on a public that I think is an interesting thing too because this pair you point out public and it does and what attracts people to central the lot oh my gosh green space and fields and privacy all these things the small communities have worked so hard to pretend and that changes so we want to start shutting down this green space from revitalization moving back into active agriculture expanding agriculture development we're penalizing farmers potentially because they've been preserving green space and not developing that space so they don't have 10 houses on that road yet this is what attracts people to places like this and if we want to move Rand off off of that list because this is how we don't want to continue going forward then for business owners here and private residents as well the tax implications what we continue to invest in this community how we draw employees to this community other people here are all the impacted by these decisions that are here that are going to be made and they're not using us I actually I agree with that but this is really setting a tone for what's going to happen and if we're doing it now because as Kerry mentioned the taxes are down the costs are going up the economic development is not going online good let's take this step in mind when we're moving because you're putting some nails in a coffin and businesses and people are going to make decisions about which community they're going to locate them and Rand off may not be on that list and this is going to continue a downward spiral my concerns Hi my name is Megan O'Toole I'm the chair of this left board in Green Tree and I just also wanted to confirm that the message that I sent to you about FOE made it into the rest of the board members on behalf of this left board in Green Tree thank you we got it Jennifer Colby from Randolph I did submit written comment and you all have a letter that I submitted earlier there was something that I wanted to add to that letter and it's related to the well economic development and also the reduction in property value we are two and a half years into a 25 year farm loan a reduction of 10 to 15% would put us under water on a mortgage and we're trying to build a farm business so do we want economic development? Do we not want economic development? Because that's what we're about I have a master's in economic development this is what I'm all about too I feel like economic development is a theme here Rick would you like to come talk to me? I would love to come talk to you but the upshot is we're a livestock farm we need we need equipment to be able to come in and out of our farm much like other firms and we are all economic drivers and some of us are more established economic drivers and some of us are new and trying to grow more economic development at Randolph the other piece that is not in my letter is the location of our farm is between two waterways and we are a grass-based farm Irene was not that long ago I know exactly what happened in Irene and we need to hold soil so if we want to talk about not just the economic development side but the public good side any farm that is holding soil from running down our river valleys is public that regardless of where it is so you just want to make that point for our farm but also for the other firms in the farm as well that is the Vermont pasture network didn't tell people that that is the Vermont pasture network person so when we were trying to manage our farm to prevent erosion we would call Jen to come and look at it and help us make management decisions the recommendation of the adjournment would just like to suggest to the board that the board considered any roads in the reclassified to class poor category and the discontinued category can be discussed in and deliberative session and deliberative session and any roads that the board feels require no action taken before entering the deliberative session another requirement so at this point we have some roads that or end discussions on which seems to be agreement with the property owners on how to reform we don't want to let the folks first there is one road there are multiple roads on who recommend no action or partial action one road has an existing agreement that takes back to over a year and a half ago for the installation of a dry hydrant that road is new goose drive the town had entered a previous engine agreement to apply for dry hydrant grant and to change the town had agreed to maintain the road so that it would be open for fire protection access and the issue with blue goose in or you have to enter into an agreement for that to use the area where the turnaround is that's right and it found fully up to stop and the property owners have been working with the highway department they've been very open with my office on the type of work that would be needed and I'm not mistaken some of that work is already being completed okay that's right yeah work is already being completed okay maybe this one's off um I'm getting a motion by motion road by road until we get to what let's go for it and everyone step up to the plate so you want to go through those five that are the no action partial action right those that are no action partial no action and then you know where I want say I'm going to recommend it one please say do you want to recommend this oh we could do that as well mm-hmm you can add that and then you know can you clarify what partial no action sure um partial no action would be a potential decision to re-open them the hearing process for a road or for two rooms the traditional information has been found between the last hearing that we held so now the select board has the option to essentially say we're going to re-open the hearing process for a road and that essentially starts the process over again for that outcome for example one of the roads would be potentially Jackson Road in our conversations with the residents we were invited after the hearing to move back to Jackson Road to see the road again speak with the residents they then reached out to the select board reached out again to the select board and brain tree and since then we've been working with the town of range and in the roads that cross from one time to the other well down Randolph has to work with those towns to address any potential issues that exist so in the case of Jackson one of those options could be no action which is take no action now or re-open the hearing for a later or re-open that road for a hearing for a later time essentially we start the clock on the road and we have the recent warnings through certified mail to the residents to continue working with the towns is there a action that we could take on that that would keep that open and not have to go through the re-notification process for example I think brain tree or a pothole for a deadline in their evaluation and not leave it open ended I don't agree that pothole needs to be on that list okay I think we should do in those two situations I think that we need to do them individually because in different towns we have blue groups we have a grant agreement for that one that we've signed that we retain for access to the dry hydrant okay we need an agreement with them to use the land where the turnaround would be then we would make a motion on what to do with that one I'll make a motion that blue groups may continue moving forward with securing the agreements we need to make that but leave that one as it is I guess class three right over to the north I'm pretty happy with that I'll second that okay motion in the second on the blue groups all those in favor all right all right closed sustained those two to three next we have clean white road another one for the dry hydrant it's another one that we'll need basically the same thing an agreement because where the trough will turn around we'll get some private property not town road right away I want to reject one thing here that hasn't been discussed in the Delford and I had a conversation about this this afternoon so one thing that hasn't come up that I don't know if anybody's given any thought to was the access to school buses so some of these roads you know the school buses travel them or don't travel them and so apparently correct me if I'm wrong but the school district actually makes the decision whether they travel these roads or don't travel these roads is that correct that's what we found in the process yes okay but in the future going back to public good okay kids need to go to school so I just want to just raise that point that you know if these roads are are town assets then we need to take into consideration that they still need to be able to serve school buses so when we're making these recommendations about how big the turnarounds should be not necessarily about town truck equipment or loaders or graders it should still take into consideration the school buses and the education piece so I just wanted to throw that out there I was going to say that earlier but I forgot so that's where I'm at with that so going to Clay Wright I would make the same motion that we do the same thing with Clay Wright that we've done with the groups Eric may interject one thing in the school buses sure having some experience with this as a as someone who has arrived at this school the road classification doesn't seem to have really anything to do with it and that the the school buses do not run on a power hill that troubles me saying they never had I know and that's what bothers me so you get the shortcut that they like to run but what I understand is that as long as there was a school bus stop we're didn't I think we're on a mile or half a mile and we all walk to school when we're on kids right consider that I'll tell both ways yeah I'll tell both ways well that's just the thing that I do so it's a meeting it's a school thing but then so many of we're going to continue operating roads that you know that's consideration needs to happen because if you were to sell your property and there ends up being a situation there where maybe they lobby or maybe they can find a way to make that happen you know I think that you know the right to public education has a little bit of a factor here well in our case the school has never went there now I know a lot of us drove our kids to school okay they could go on to a school but I must have within half a mile yeah and 20 below zero my second I'll tell both ways my second we're not going to settle on that okay at least so motion and a second on playway all those in favor all right all right all right we'll just check what yeah I'll train in a second then might take my good thank you thank you opposed the motion carries Alma Road under 14 understand this correctly the agreement is for route 14 to the other side of the bridge to remain class 3 and from that point on would go to is it class 4 or trail that we're going on that one it could go either way it could go either way so it's a board decision on that one at that point we the the entire length of Alma Road is 1.5 miles if the select board were to decide to make it a partial we'll make a partial decision on it it would keep approximately 0.1 1 miles class 3 in the remainder should be 0.04 it could be a trail it could be class 4 or it could be reverted back to the proper yards are you aware that Palmer is access to the lands of the people that own blue grease and all sorts of that's where we're keeping it is for a trail it's a little public access so what we need this one here are challenges that the trucks are going visible and they're going up around back and plowing right up next to the well head pushing the snow down over the tank and backing in by the shed how do we go into the care of the grid how many go class 4 beyond that still keeps it public because we need to look at going to the whole predicts to determine the way that line is because there's a few options good still have to secure be aware we still have to secure a turnaround space long wasn't pushing the problem she also want to maintain the right way to be able to do the maintenance on the bridge so you want to be at least a certain distance on the other side 100 years from now somebody's got to go in there you don't want to have to acquire maintenance right to work shout about the distance on that one it's going to be easy jackson road so topic on this is to take no action I'm so agreed to reopen the nearing on it no that's I'd make the motion that would take no action on jackson drive until we have conversations so we kind of break free on the remaining portion of their jurisdiction reopen public hearing that's my motion say it the motion the second all those in favor aye aye post stain motion carries police self drive this one the property over requested that we just continue it I'm not sure how much I want to say police felt we will drive you skipped over runner it did because we didn't think it it's not the same as jackson right I don't know there's no head of order or I mean I thought we needed more conversation you reached out of you because we need more conversation correct that we own and what they own okay yeah so which one they just jumped in please they'll drive please they'll drive they're in the site just that the property owner asked us to just continue it yeah great simple one everything okay so I'll make the motion that we just continue blaze they'll drive as per request of the land no a second we'll just put in a second all those in favor I post abstain motion carries any others that post make a decision now do we have agreement on the rain bills okay well what's the agreement with the landowner on rainfall correct an agreement to enter into an agreement we don't have anything to print down but the owner has agreed to allow us to enter the property necessary and that is one one road where there is necessary public infrastructure that there's a culvert there that receives water from a culvert on Spooner Road and if this road were to not maintain at least the culvert and water coming down from Spooner Road but essentially completely impact rainbow drive the recommendation would be to to at least allow the town to continue to maintain that culvert because otherwise if the place culvert in Spooner Road or the sub-basic Spooner Road and in danger potential erosion so to maintain stormwater as well as everything else we need to be able to maintain the culvert in rainbow drive but we can maintain that culvert by taking it to a class board and the landowners are okay with being a class board yes they're concerned is the culvert to anybody else so are we looking to reclassify that put an agreement in on the stormwater is that what the recommendation it could we would just need to reclassify the class board because we reclassify it and we have the rights to maintain the culverts we're still responsible for the stormwater he said there's an agreement for an agreement oh the oh sorry the it should have been more specific the agreement that the property owner is willing to allow us to enter is to continue to use the road and turn on the power property to then come back out because otherwise any vehicle on the trail for repairs would have to back out onto room 14 and that's the maintain the stormwater that's been doing the stormwater the 12th yeah and 12th and there's also the added danger of reversing the rainbow drive and that immediately adjacent to it is spooner roads come access so then right you need to be able to exit driving out on that backing up okay well assuming that we we have landowner agreement I reckon that I believe that we reclassified rainbow drive to class four one second much in the second all those in favor all right closed stained which one carries and then the other one we have that is right the easiest up in right off center off ski tow that town probably about 70 70 and that one we've and we haven't heard anything from anybody up there but the state actually to knock on our door and said hey I don't think so the property owners have have been have visited my office before the hearing and have also spoken to the actual work I'm more home training right the state in reviewing our our Reclassification effort came to the town and said that there are some considerable issues with the entire length of town routes having just in the condition that it's in and that it's essentially going to reclaim to the majority of it has been reclaimed to soil and trainer now the whole thing is class three but we're not maintaining even the entire distance control as class three so either way we're down on we need to reclassify at least maybe 75% of that that we're not doing anything to pass there at least for the fours and looks like the whole road is is only a tenth of a mile so the majority of that being grass right there's not much left over at that point right no but the part that is left over is the two home only access in I mean we can't access because the way that you did the east of the road the town built that up so high we could never be able to come down that hill anyway so to access our two drives that is the road stays and so we don't go in there and just seat over the road the actual surface stays it just becomes the property of the residents on the road so we wouldn't say find another you know we don't say you've got to find another way in or whatever the ownership of the actual land reverts to the property owners and then in the state statute there's a section that actually says that there's more than one than all of them have a right away over that to get to their property too so nobody gets landlocked or anything of it so do we so is there agreement with the landowners for that road that's okay to you know so shouldn't that be part of our deliberative session yep so that's all the rules that we have going to make a suggestion to the board it's the board is to choose thank you for inter-deliberative session and it would consider inviting me and to Morgan of town I will superintendent into the deliberative session I'll make the motion further inter-deliberative session my name's Morgan and tell me your adult book baby a second motion in a second all those in favor all right all right take post stay motion carries thank you all right that's inter-deliberative guys