 So thank you how around for helping us create this national audience, it was really important for me, thank you. So I just wanted to say that this is a really important panel, this is a really important work going on in the Twin Cities. And in the Twin Cities, I'm not going to allow people here to talk about it themselves, but I just wanted to say that there are two initiatives here in the Twin Cities that are kind of joined together. One is the Twin Cities Theatres of Colour Coalition, we came together to talk about equity in our theatres, this is five theatres led by leaders of colour. We have four of those theatres here, we have a couple of guests who are very expected right now to join us as we go along. And so we have four of those theatres here to talk about that. And so these theatres are theatre who, with Randy Ray sitting next to me, Petya, the Pucker, a new native theatre, we are a Yazi who we are very so, and Husteliano from Piatra del Pueblo who will also be here, and the person who is missing is Sarah Bellamy who is from Pinocchio. And we also have, and then along with them we have some guests from our foundations here who created a really revolutionary organisation or initiative called the Racial Equity Funding Collaborative and then here we talk about funding and how the climate is shifting in the Twin Cities. So we have folks from the Bush Foundation, from the Minister of Community Partners, from the Leight Foundation and also from the Jerome Foundation. So we talk to all of them and I'm going to let them introduce themselves. So we start with the TikTok folks and then as we'll start along we'll have them introduce themselves as well. So maybe just a little bit, just one sentence about yourself and the organisation you're from. Hi, thank you for having me here. It's a really special institute. My name is Randy Reyes and I'm the Artistic Director of Theatre Moo. We produce great performances from the heart of the Asian-American experience. We've been around for 26 years and I've been Artistic Director for five of those years. And we're very excited to be Theatre of Color and Asian Pacific Island American Company in the Twin Cities and we've produced, with a show that we're producing right now, we open next week for previews. These will be our 54th world premiere. I work at the McKnight Foundation and the sentence about the organisation I've worked for is that McKnight is dedicated to improving the quality of life for present and future generations. And then specifically the arts team for which I work with and serve on. We support working artists in the state of Minnesota and we believe that when artists thrive, when artists thrive, Minnesota thrives. Hi everyone, I'm Eleanor Savage. I'm an artist and activist and I work in philanthropy for the Jerome Foundation and the program director. I've been there for 11 years. Jerome Foundation has been around for 54 years and supports early career artists in Minnesota and New York City. And also arts organizations that support early career artists. Hi everyone, I'm Takara Eleanor and I'm an associate human officer at the State Law Minnesota Community Foundation. And the way that I look at it is that it's a community foundation and then there's also a private foundation and a family foundation and then we say about 2,000 other partners and donor funds and other types of funds. Hello everyone, my name is Justin Pursuit and I'm the Bush Foundation based in St. Paul. Thank you for allowing me to share this space with you all today. The Bush Foundation is a private foundation focusing on North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota and 23 other nations that share that geography. I work on our community creativity strategy which is making art and culture essential to the problem solving across systems, across communities, across issue areas. My passion in the world is that how art and culture connect across systems, across cultures have always been fascinated by that. So I get to bring that passion, that interest in my work every day. Thank you. Hi, I'm Dipankar. I think that's because we'll be here for some time. I'm the artistic director of PENGIA, an ensemble member and artistic director of PENGIA World Theater. And PENGIA, you've heard already different people introducing PENGIA. We really locate our art at the intersection of social justice and art and community building. We work with various communities and we are, this is our 52nd year of existence. Hi, my name is Jaya Minazi. I'm the artistic director of New Native Theater. And everything we do at New Native Theater is centered on many artists, writers, actors, directors and audiences. Thank you so much. Well, I would really love to ask you now just the TikTok folks and what was their practice behind creating TikTok? So tell us a little bit about the history because a lot of people here don't know the history of this orchestra, this coalition that you all have created. So if you can just spend two minutes each and talk about what was their presence, a little bit about the history, maybe from each of your points of view, that would be wonderful. Could we start with Brianna and come back so that, yeah. So about five years now, five years ago, right? Yeah, four years, 2014. Sarah Bell, we had this fantastic idea to start meeting as artistic directors of theaters that serve communities of color, where these communities are primary to our mission, primary to serve our fundamental being of what we do in our theater companies. And we thought that working together would make us stronger. And it would enable us to respond to things that each one of us was dealing with individually. So negative things that POC individuals and organizations have to often deal with in this sort of PWA or bold. And sort of off the heels of a couple of really hurtful play productions that were done by predominantly white institutions that really didn't listen to, didn't care to listen to or have a meaningful dialogue with the communities of color that were impacted. And, yeah, it's important to really acknowledge Sarah Bell's leadership in bringing us all together. Sarah, very recently, became one of the co-artistic director. And now I think he's the artistic director of Penumbra from Lube and Amir, which is who led Penumbra for more than 40-plus years. We got us together and when we came into the room, we all felt among the artistic director, we all felt that our voices together would be a stronger presence because none of us really invented or revolved against injustice. So that's what's always there. And we were doing it in our own organization, through our own art, through the artist. But us coming together was extremely emotional to really hear each other and realize that we are not insane. That's how we have felt for years and we are dealing with it consistently. And so that really to be when we sat together around a table to talk about the work. And each one of us came from our own lived experiences. These are not theoretical out there, somewhere else, somebody's experiences. This is our lived experiences for years and our elders have gone through this. So suddenly there was this huge sense of strength and feeling of empowerment we all felt. When I had the honor of becoming an artistic director at TheaterMove, that fall there was a predominantly white organization that was producing Miss Saigon. So I stepped into that great opportunity. Time things are opportunities. And in dealing with that, we've heard a lot from the Southeast Asian community in the Twin Cities. And this was the fourth production that had come to the Twin Cities. And the previous three had come with protests from the community. And they were the same organization, by the way, the same organization, their fourth time. And so I took a lot of counsel from a lot of people and TheaterMove decided just to create conversations. So we weren't directly protesting or doing anything like that. We were just creating space for a conversation to happen. And one of the last conversations, we had one with just an Asian-American activist artist. We had one with the theater community, then we had one with everybody. And that last one was at NPR. And in that last one, Rihanna and Sarah, along with Vicki Benson and Sharon, I think, was also there. Vicki Benson from the McKnight Foundation. Sarah from Pinnupra, and Pinnupra is an African-American company. It's been around for 42 years. And Rihanna from New Native. That feeling of solidarity from other communities meant so much personally, but also to our community. And it also added a dimension to the conversation that then made it bigger than just, oh, the Asian community is getting hurt. There was a solidarity that suddenly was being heard in a different way. And that was, to me, the first taste of what the power of a coalition can be. And from there, then Sarah got us together and said, let's meet. Let's commit to showing up to a room and talk about sustainability. Actually, just have a bitch session for a while. For a while it was just crying, and then everything will be okay, and let's meet again. Next time, a little less crying. And let's talk about a little bit of a plan, and then let's meet again. And then even a little less crying, more plans, let's meet again. And they're still crying, but we've also come up with amazing strategies. One of those strategies I think will lead to the next section, which is how do we deal with funders and foundations in order to have sustainability as a huge part of the theaters of color and the assets that we bring to our communities that we serve and the larger community because of that. So how can we find a real sustainable system to be in? I just wanted to know that my 75-year-old aunt from Singapore attended a protest for the first time in her life with a Miss Saigon. Like she was marching up and down. No to Miss Saigon. Just embarrassed. Yes, I can make an activist of my family yet. And then there were so many other incidents as well. There was like a theater, there were other really egregious practices among predominantly white institutions, casting. There was like a place that people objected to. I remember the year that we had our pilot institute in 2012. Not hardly any organization here had a woman playwright or a director who was either a woman or a person of color. And I think there was one play in a large institution that was co-directed by a woman. So that was really huge for us. We had to be really needed to find an alternative and we needed to find something that we could just say no to. And then we had to figure out how to say yes to everything else. So I'd like to turn this over to the RefSea funders and say how did you create RefSea? What was the impetus behind you creating RefSea? How did you come together? Why these foundations? Just some of these questions. Each of you can answer some of that if you want to. I think everyone was the first. Okay, so RefSea started. Racial Equity Funders Collaborative is an informal gathering of program staff from different foundations. And it started with people who were just wanting to make a change from within philanthropy in the direction of racial equity. Also kind of talking and analyzing and teaching racism within philanthropy. And we came together because of what was going on in the community, some of the kind of horrible incidents that happened in some of the theaters as well as in other fields. And just wanting to come together to figure out how can we, even in an informal organizing way, start trying to change and stuff. Start trying to change our own organizations. And how can we be a collective learning community to do this? And so I think we came together about the same time as TikTok came together. We weren't about when we first came together. I think a lot of us in the room were feeling frustrated with philanthropy's ability to change in the space of equity. There was a lot of talking and talking and talking for years. And I personally only met in philanthropy for six years. And so many people in the room were saying that for, you know, longer than that. And it's been just about talking. And so we as a group wanted to investigate how we could really pervert, have each other's backs to create a change that we wanted to see for our communities. And it was, we said it would be the same space. And we cried too. And still cried. I don't think they said this. I don't want to say she doesn't think it was safe, or maybe I would like you to say more about that. Maybe it was the same in the fact that we were being levels a little bit in wanting to create change in, you know, institutions or organizations that have history of how to do things. I'm probably one of the newest ones since. When I came in, I was in the fellowship and my fellowship was all about increasing the number of people colored, actually in philanthropy. So wanting to have this impact is what I saw in the recipe. I saw it was more than just talking about it because you come into spaces and even though you're diversifying the spaces, a lot of the spaces still operate under secrecy. So just kind of calling out what it is. That's why I see the method of rough-seeking is really getting to change some of these systems within an organization and do that. And I've been with rough-seeking for about a year. And I've been, I think, lucky to come into the safe space, the space that is now feeling pretty safe, you know, to some degree. And I think about why wouldn't we have this space together? Every time I come to one of the meetings, it just feels absolutely right and needed and critical to do all of our work better and to continue to fight and be supported in fighting, not just for ourselves but for the grantees of the community. So there's quite a wonderful role just in doing that. You know, and I also think about how it's been the foundation for so many choices that the Bush Foundation has made just in the last year or so here. And I think a couple of them. One is a choice I made. One is a choice that we made in a developing grant program. I don't know how deep you want us to go into that now. But we have a new program called the Community Creativity Cohort Number Two. And it's exclusively focused on people of color, organizations led by people of color in indigenous organizations, primarily serving those communities and rural communities. And those are the communities that have not been served by philanthropy in the right way over the past several years. And we actually started digging into the data too at the Bush Foundation. You know, roughly a 40-year period ending in roughly 2015, the far majority of our support had gone into 12, roughly 12 organizations here in the Twin Cities that were founded by directed or essentially white folks. And so we thought, that's not right. And we had to do something to change that. And so we're now doing more kind of programming, focused directly on the communities that have not benefited from our philanthropy over the years. So it's one thing. And then a personal thing that I did, which I think my foundation was the ref seeker just this week, we talk about trauma. We talk about historical trauma, lateral trauma and such. And just this week, we did a round-dive lunch with the staff that I helped organize to help our foundation understand what trauma is, what's the science behind it, what's the history, what are the effects, and how our community is learning in new ways how to heal. And I go to that either of those things would have come into the foundation without the ref seeker. So this is some of those foundations. So I'm just thankful to have that foundation. This is a real practicing equity with one mic. What forbid you have about 27 mics here? Oh yes, of course. I just wanted to add one thing as you were talking about. Justin was talking about digging deep into the philanthropy and the history of where the funding had gone and all the foundations came together actually and did some of that work to see together, which is awesome to have heard of and might even be, you know, really shared secrets like that, you know. So that's another part of the work is really digging in and being transparent. So we have a new comment here, so I just wanted him to introduce himself and the organization for you. You're from just like the line and why your battle ticked off. Very quick game. Hi everybody, I'm sorry. Thank you so much. My name is Alberto Montignano. I'm with Teatro de Pueblo, so it's an honor to be here and, you know, participate in something that's a great event as this one. Well, for me, it's just the fact that I've grown. It's one of the things is that being able to spend four and a half years really analyzing and looking at the line of therapy as well as the ecosystem of theaters of color, organizations of color has allowed me to really think more deeply about the issues and how every organization fits in this sort of puzzle. So I can attest to the fact that, I mean, I can't tell you how wonderful it is to really dig deep into these questions, really analyze them. Not only from a personal point of view, but also from a broader macro point of view. And understanding and learning every process from everybody works different. Each community or each organization has different set of perspectives on how they go about their work. So it's really interesting for me and it's been a journey of growth. Thank you so much. So I just love to hear the story of how TikTok and RevCK together. And if a couple of you can talk about that, that would be great. We needed money. So we started to meet as a coalition and realized very quickly that we needed resources to do the work that we did. And this was work outside of running the organization. And there were ideas that were coming up. And we wanted to, we knew we needed resources. And there weren't any specific grants within these organizations for coalitions or anything like that. So we were like, what would we do? We have relationships with these great organizations. There isn't a grant application for us. So what we did was we called, we called them up. We called up program officers and said, hey, we're doing this. And it was the McKnight Foundation and the Saint, no, not Saint Paul. But they weren't the first. Jerome? No. And the Saint Paul Foundation, we called them up. Sharon DeMark and Vicki Benson from the McKnight Foundation and said, hey, we started this coalition. Is there any money that you could possibly send our way so we can consistently meet and we have these ideas? And they found money. And we got money like, wow, that was easy. Is it that easy? What's going on? So as we built up the strategy of sustainability and engagement funders and we found out that they had started their collaborative, it was a natural, we needed to talk. They were working on equity and we were working on equity. There was disparities in funding. We could help, they were doing the work within their foundation. It was very hard work because it is in drenched this system. It goes deep and a lot of times they're not aware. So it's unconscious and deep, which is very two dangerous things to have. And how could we support their work? And then how can they support the work that we have been doing in our communities for over 40 years, 20 years, 20 years, 10 years, in a way that no other organization has been doing consistently and authentically. So we decided to, we were meeting and then we had a big meeting together. And that was very exciting. We cried in that one too. But we shared a lot. And the core of it is trust, is building trust. The core of TikTok was build trust. There were so many assumptions that needed to be erased. Just because we were people of color, we do things very differently. Our aesthetics are different. We had to learn, we had to trust each other. That was big. And then when we went with RefSea, that's what the main part of our meetings were, trust. And we have to like breathe, calm down. We don't have to solve this tomorrow. But if we don't build the foundation of trust, nothing's going to work. Nothing's going to work. It was kind of a natural coming together because we were focused in a very parallel path. I think that most foundations are set up so that you don't have relationships with grantees. Or there's a very prescribed way to have those relationships. And through RefSea, which was already a disrenegade group, there was a way to really focus on relationship building in a different way. And as Randy mentioned, building trust. But also stepping back from our roles in our particular organizations. And coming together as people in a room trying to figure this out. And I think that we didn't start with like, okay, how can we get the grant in place? We started with how can we change the way things are, how we're doing things? What needs to change? And then we have come back around to, okay, now that we have a little more clarity, how can we get the money? Or how can we help support what you need to do the incredible work? I mean, we're so blessed in this community of these organizations that have been around for decades and that are doing incredible work. And so figuring out how we do that change work together is just really critical. The Ponker and I were just remembering that the first year of TikTok, we didn't have any grants. And I also recall when we first met with RefSea, you guys really wanted to give us money. And we said no. Because we wanted to get to know you. Because we really wanted, we set out to upset the paradigm of what it means to be in a relationship as an organization and a funder. Because we are trying to change philanthropy. And if we just take the money, right off of that personally, okay. So that was really important, that trying to establish trust. Absolutely. It's really important for us to say that people like Alison and Randy, I quote that, that we are, I mean, yes, the myth that all people of color have solidarity, which as many of us know it is not true. But we have to get to know ourselves first and have to really be coalition. And there's one more step before RefSea met was our boards met. Yeah. Yeah, that was a very important, like all our boards came together. Like all the five TikTok organizations. And then after that, when our individual board meeting, I mean, our board were just beaming. We should have more board meetings together. We also felt like there is a solidarity among the challenges which, you know, the new native theater board is facing with phenomenal board member, pancreas board member. And that was extremely empowering. After that, we met RefSea. And what Rihanna mentioned that, you know, because we were running our own organizations and all our organizations were in a position of growth. So we are managing all of that and yet we are meeting. So first, everybody desired that, you know, why don't we have administrative assistant, at least to bring us together all the time. Because we are not doing everything and running this coalition, which has almost became an important job. And there was an offer from one of the foundations that, you know, why don't we aid that and we really debated that. And they said that the moment we say yes, then there was at least the power dynamic. And okay, we have done, we have done the equity work now moving on next. So not that they said that, but we have our experiences made us feel that. So we just refused that. And we wanted to arrive. We did not even know what does that look like? What does equity look like? And where we are all here addressing injustice that happens every day. You know, the history of, I mean, there are people sitting over here who have done media research about how many African American institutions have formed it, how many organizations of color have formed it. And who can sustain. It's not about getting a grant to do a play. How many of us can sustain ourselves? And so the first meeting which Randy mentioned, it was like, okay, let it out. This is what we fucking feel. And all of us are talking from the front of lived experience. And there was nothing new among the foundation. These are progressive people that you can, otherwise they would not be sitting here. And I just want to name just like the way Sarah Bellamy needs to be named. Vicky Benson has been named. Alita Little, Sarah Luven, Eric Takashita, and Propel, Glenn, and Shannon DeMar. Yes. These are people who have clearly put their jobs on the line for us. And they need to be mentioned. And we arrived at trust. We didn't begin there. I mean, there was a relationship. And once Alita said that, so ultimately, is it all about the money? I mean, she was provoking us to engage in a conversation. So a part of me wanted to be serious. A part of me said that if they give us a check, if they suppose give us a check, then is Ref City talk, you know, our vision, our mission, our desire to find equity over? You know, but we had very, when we first came and met at midnight, we read our mission statement. Like all five of us read part of the mission statement. And we must say we were embraced with powerful listening and strong commitment from the Ref City crowd. I just wanted to put something in perspective so you have a better idea of what the four and a half years that we spent together, just at the tip that we started about a year and a half working with our partners and foundations. So the fact that in the process, in the beginning, there had been another initiative about 15 years ago. And the big difference about that is we met. I think there were three theaters, color meeting at that time. And we met and we did a couple of small things. But the unique process that we've gone through is the fact that we, even in the beginning, we did not get paid to do this. So we just kept on meeting. And at times it was like, oh, we've got so much to do. But the thought about what we would be able to do if we joined forces kept us going. And in the process, I mean, we have a track record of things that we've done. I mean, we've had three retreats, two summits. Our boards got together. We've had monthly meetings and bi-monthly meetings now for about a year and a half or more with recipe. And so there has been work and there has been things that we've done to accomplish this. And the process is about, like DePonker and Rihanna and Randy have mentioned, is the trust level. And that takes time to build. And we're continuing to build that. So it's a process. And I think what would make this one different than the one that we tried 15 years ago is that process of continuing to build so you get to that threshold that you start trusting each other beyond the point that just, oh, yeah, it's a nice theater. Yeah, I've got to go see your show. But it's a different, it's a threshold that you have to meet and go beyond. And I think it's taken time. And we're in the process in continuing to be in that point. Thank you. I just want to open up to questions from this audience if you want to ask. And I'll just ask the mic along to you when you want to ask questions. But just before I ask that question, before I pass it on to people, so you can start thinking about a question if you want to ask these wonderful panelists, what does equity mean to you? Like when you're in a room together, you're sitting in a room together with 10 of you, right? Or maybe 11 or 12 of you. What does equity look like? You know, when we talk about that practicing equity and practicing equity out there, what does it look like in practice for you? I can't stress enough what a game-changer it was in the room when we took money off the table. Because we are so used to functioning in a way. We say, can you please? And they say, well, can you prove it? I was like, yes, we prove it. We've done this, this, this, and that. Well, okay, show me two more things. You're like, all right, here's one, and here's two. Yes. And they say yes or no, right? And then type it, and if it's yes, then it's like, woo! And screw everyone else. And if it's no, it's trauma. Because you spent all this time and resources, and if you're a small organization, that means it's you doing it, right? You don't have a slew of grant writers. It's your time that you're also running an organization and you're taking out the trash and you're cleaning the toilet. So, we have these, we have these relation, liberates of dealing with each other. That is just practice. And these practices we found through data, there was a report, the Helicom report, that said that 50% of all, what? 55. 55 things, Cheryl. You can help me out. 55% of all just funding, not just, arts funding goes to 2%. And this 2% are all organizations over $25 million. 5. $5 million. Thank you. I can't do this alone. I need you to tell our story. If I was alone, you'd have all kinds of wrong data. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. So, that's real. Those are real numbers. They did a study before and it was 50%. And they did the study in 2015 and it got worse. So, all this EDI work is not, so those are real numbers. So, even though all the mission is to, oh, we want arts for everybody. We want everyone to have access to it. We want all of this. This is all the mission that something's not working. So, we have to find a different way of doing this, which is big. This is dismantling things. This is a third way. So, one of our biggest challenges is overcoming our own ways of doing it, the way that we're used to doing it, the way the relationship has been set for years, and really, really consciously shift that. Because when we came together, it was like, we need help. And they're like, how much do you need? And then, suddenly, trauma. I got sweaty. It was a meeting at Panjia. We need, and then they were like, tell us how much. And then we're like, I'm sweaty, and I'm like, what's going on? And I'm like, oh, this is part of our trauma. Suddenly, I mean, I need to find a number. $20. I don't know. How much do you have? We have so many. So much money. So that trauma is, so when we took money off the table, and I remember very quickly, we were all in having a hard time. We were all, we were, TikTok had a meeting, and we were all in, you know, a year, we have funding gaps, and we have, you know, all these things that we're dealing with. And we were like, we need to take money off the table or nothing's going to change. And everybody was like, are we really wanting to do that? And it's like, at least for now. At least for now. And we're not saying that we don't need money, but let's not talk about money. Let's talk about, let's get to know each other. Let's get to know what the foundations are doing. And let's get the foundations to know what our real challenges are and what we've been, what we've been dealing with and really get that understanding before we can start to strategize how to make that big change. We are in such peace, we listen to melodies. And also, though, also it was important for us to hear from, you know, that people from the refugee group over here, we know them in various intonation, and artists also. We are lucky to have our program directors or poets, or sculptors, or artists, or lafaltists and various immunities. But we also wanted to hear and then to hear, like, truth and reconciliation, that they are accountable for the construction of this inequity. You know, because it did not happen all of a sudden. It didn't, like, you know, rock. So it is step-by-step construction why people of color have the annual budget that we have and why majority of the, you know, first I'll say the name, then the abbreviation because it was a symphony, orchestra, ballet have huge amount of budget, you know. Each one of them have huge amount of budget, space. How much ever I tell myself, you know, let's focus on what we are doing, what we are getting. But it has to be talked about in comparison. You know, it's not that they're stuck with what they are getting, but the point is the justice has to be addressed. And we sat there and not that anything new is being spoken even in this room or anything new was spoken to the progressive program director that we had in RFC, but it needed to be articulated that just like the way we have constructed consciously inequity, so therefore we will make sure that we deconstruct consciously this done inequity. So with that, you know, for being part of this group and in another group, I think about what am I perpetuating? What is the push foundation perpetuating? What am I with my role there perpetuating and inequities and what am I not working to dismantle? In this group again, this is a foundation to that. But foundations also have many tools. We have dollars, we have convening power, we have lots of relationships. We have kind of a view on our region that no one else can have in some ways because of all the grantees, because of all the relationships that we have. So why not utilize those relationships differently to actually dismantle the systems to go beyond the push foundation and work with other runners to change philanthropy beyond ourselves? That's the work that really gets me being energized here. So it's what more can I do? What stop me? What can I do? What more can I do in my role in philanthropy at the push foundation to change this dynamic? You said role, and I think coming into philanthropy you sort of put on this role. And that's what equity is, is losing this role. I don't know what it is. I'm not used to it. I did the fund development side prior to being a side. And automatically I felt the heaviness of supremacy. I already felt the role of the public, but it just says a heaviness and that's what this equity is about is constantly being held accountable. Constantly having to reflect and think and not always operate on an urgency guide. Get that out of really stopping and really being intentional and then again being held accountable and it's about being shoulder to shoulder. That's what I feel like there's been so many times where somebody said pump your brakes. We start going and it's like pump your brakes. We've got to stop. And that's what equity is about. Yeah, so where does the money come from? You know, you start working for a foundation and you ask that question and well that takes you right to racism, inequity, every other form of oppression you can imagine. And all of that is built into and encoded in guidelines. You know how things are set up to function. So down to like the panel process. What are the criteria? What is some organization's use of the idea of practicing excellence and how is that defined? So you get down into it and it's like it's all there. And so for me equity is about by any means necessary unraveling, deconstructing, changing the practices. You know, Jerome, we're now using the panel process and over the last year and going into the next year 70% of the panelists are artists of color or leaders of color. So that is a radical shift from the way things have been done in the past. You know, it's at every level at every opportunity changing. And the suppression of the stories. The story is to me one of the most essential ways of communicating as a human being suppression of the story has been active for artists of color and communities of color and changing that removing the barriers increasing the assets to get those stories out there is what's critical. So equity is such a big thing that I'm holding in my personal life and my professional life right now and all of these people have taught me more about what equity does mean and should mean just kind of thinking about voice and how everybody should have a voice. Another person who worked with us in the RFC group is Alex Pate who is doing this amazing work called Innocent Technologies and he started working with classrooms and teachers to talk about innocence and how, so I've just bear with me, okay? So innocence is this moment where you feel like you can completely speak your truth and be yourself in front of the people you're talking to and I think there's a lot more to what I'm trying to say but I think that is a huge part of what equity is like really hearing people really listening and really just taking trying every single second to take down any blinders or barriers that you hold and it's been an incredible journey so far. Equity for me has always involved the sharing of information and understanding of how it works and what it bothers to. The true, at least my belief is that there is a wrong spectrum of equity and it's not apples to apples all the time but what's really unique about coming together is the fact that we're able to be vulnerable and understanding that we don't know all the answers in our vision to change the paradigm of how it is to change how the natural it works but what the uniqueness is that we understand what we love understanding of each other I've been able to be able to discover what are the challenges for a program an officer. We always think about oh I'm asking and I want this but how do we get there and what they might want to get the money but they have challenges too and one of the things about this having to hear all these voices is that for the first time I'm able to sit with somebody right next to share and we see their vulnerabilities also about what they want to do but also how they need my help to change that so it's not on their court all the time you go and do it, no it's how we do it together and that for me has been one of the lessons of equity that I've learned in the process of with it really unique and different and since we all admit that we don't know all the answers but we come together to find those answers and we look at those answers together and that has been what I can take for this process and when it comes to equity great so if you have any questions would you like to open the floor to any of you to ask questions would you just tell us that the evidence is what which one of those how are we going to end to take the time to make that the next slide the city's status of color coalition and the racial equity funders collaborative yes so this is more for Tiktok members I'm just wondering I have a small non-profit, POC but called Brown Lighting had it with that shameless spot anyways we were founded about formerly founded about five years ago and it has been an uphill struggle I know I'm preaching to the choir I know everybody understands but as a small organization I felt really alone and I feel like this is a sentence but I wonder if other similarly sized small POC-led organizations if we are all kind of operating on this pseudo internalized colonial based mentality of you know we're competing against one another since the onset I wanted to since the onset I have tried and have been really interested in coalition building how can we work together so my question is how does a small non-profit POC-led organization either engage with Tiktok become a member maybe you know we'd love to engage with RefSeen we'd love to be involved because the story that you recounted where you have that meeting Sarah was there and I can't remember who else was there excellent I can only imagine how powerful that must have been I know I probably won't grow up crying been completely inarticulate and being able to have those allies in those key moments is everything so you know any thoughts I don't know if any thought has been given to that yet but that's definitely you know we'd love to be involved what's your organization? Brownbody so we try on our dance theater social justice practice and figure skating and we present our artistic work on and off theaters are you here? I want to go so this from the very beginning all the work within Tiktok and also what we're working with RefSeen is to create a model a model that then we would have a great report on and be able then to to send out to offer to the to different communities as a way of doing things so that's ultimately the goal of all this is we'll work out we'll do the crying and the you know and we also to benefit other communities it's we're doing this work so that we get more work for other artists of color we we're doing this work so that other foundations can also learn from RefSeen what they're doing and hopefully make a change in their community so all of this is to create ripple effects that will benefit the whole community because if that we can get people to think oh we can if we invest in this organization led by a theater company we can help them thrive then their reach is actually going to make a huge difference in the community and then the numbers will start to shift and then you'll see audiences look differently and then you'll you'll see artists who look different and then by 2042 when the global majority is now the majority here in the United States we will have a thriving art scene that reflects that so we have events coming up we have things that we're going to do you know small things but the bigger picture is to be able to be a model for everyone else Sharon well in 2042 I'll probably be gone in 2042 I'll probably be gone but what about like to other theaters of color in the Twin Cities area like are we ever going to open up to say include some of us yes yes this is we don't want to we are fought against gated communities we don't want to become a model so so as like Bob Ryan said we are putting structures in place the answer is yes the ultimate dream is to sort of is just that include as many people as possible and at present we are putting structures in place we are putting basic foundations in place so that the it is just again the struggles that Sharon you have experienced the struggle that Lou Bellamy has experienced from 40 plus years the struggle that elders in different communities have experienced you know we are standing on the back of their struggles and trying to create this so that with our structure and with our organization with our sustaining you know how do we sustain even repsit how do we sustain think talk how do we sustain repsit and how do we both sustain this vision that you ask how the equity looks like I mean sometimes I don't even know what it looks like because I feel like I have to imagine it you know that it looks like that we all have our theaters we all have our real places and I don't want anybody anybody especially if they are white to tell anyone of us that you know if you have a space it hangs like an albatross now you are dead fuck that you know we want our own space we want our own table we want our own programming we want our own money just like the way none of the large white institutions have ever been told if you have a space you might close down because they don't fucking close down they have multi million dollars in their foundation to sustain the next 150 years you know so what the equity looks like is that space like we don't go knocking at doors and constantly we refuse to get spaces at a time when we need it and where we are constantly if you burn say 10 people don't come running down and say you know we don't do drugs here this has not happened this has happened to our people whom we respect we invite from different play countries and it has happened to us and then there is cash flow capacity is increasing large national foundation cannot say that you know we cannot give you large funding because of capacity and yet capacity cannot be filled without funding you know the thing is that you know you are not talking to you know theater organization 101 like every subject at ERT level post-doc level and entry level none of us here are the 101 level but sometimes the conversations of the foundation need to also shift and our shifting and because we our ultimate goal is to shift philanthropy and where we have to sustain ourselves how do we sustain ourselves we can't get any of these large institutions which are 5 million or more they can definitely answer the question will you be around for the next 10 years but how many of us can say that you know we have to depend on the graces of large foundations so that's what equity to me looks like where you know we can sustain another thing that happens that we train we train people without any not much experience we train them to write grants and we support them with our economic possibility no free work but then what happens is that these large institutions come and just offer them salaries and just harvest the talent, the craft that we are growing and I don't blame the people of course you get a $60,000 entry level job with health insurance I don't blame them at all but I'm saying this we are constantly in the supply chain of creating people which large organizations are best and so what will equity look like are people of color who get trained by us stay with us and grow with us and grow as an organization that's what equity to me looks like thank you so much for what you're doing it's really inspiring to me and I just to see the cooperation between organizations of color and foundations it's really an amazing thing I've run an organization in Los Angeles for 40 years and I wish it was I could get at the game in that same way but unless what you've done here I'm wondering because is it because is this working because it's a smaller city than Los Angeles we feel so overwhelmed we are so small and overwhelmed and I know that I hope that what you're doing can be the ways of what you're doing and what you're learning can come in our direction but this is a weird country California is in another country in a way but I know the same thing exists for us except worse where we live because we can't even look at the funders like this we can't have lunch with them and the people who are thinking like you get fired from their jobs in the foundations this just happened to a friend of mine so how do you see this going forward an hour no I want to take that and the thing is that this is really hard work I mean Karen was just reminding me that Vicky was just reminding me that this is hard work there are foundations here we're actually willing to sit down and do the work and that's amazing and I think the question of how we spread this work in the universities perhaps we haven't yet got immediate answers to that but we have to figure that based on her out too one of the things that this goes to Sharon's question and yours ultimately we have to have something that works people are risking their jobs also from the foundations but let's not be tempted about that it's reality what's unique is that they're committed and their support from Tinti and they support us and then that elevates the the motivation collaborative work is very important in order to create something that works we have to look at all the kings we're in the inception still we need to create case cases things that really change the paradigm of philanthropy of philanthropy and then maybe correctly if I'm wrong but you need data you need something to take to your trustees and say look this is what works this is a case them very deliberate in how we go about this so that's why this core has stuck together ultimately we want other places in the country to work this way but we at this moment in this time what we're trying to do is really make sure we get to those successes because if we don't construct that roadmap that is success we can just share it go ahead do it and you'll find the same walls but we need to destroy those walls bring them down and we need to do it together in a way that's very deliberate so it's not everybody goes into one room and try to figure it out we have to have strategy and strategy comes with time thinking process and resources very very important this cohort here collaboration between us has allowed to do that because we both have motivations and we try to look for that common denominator to be able to do that but yes I'm hoping that in LA New York but not only there but in Kansas City Florida smaller towns also get to be able to do this that's the goal we're sure that's what we're trying to do I would love to ask the funders to answer those questions of whether it is a smaller town is that why we're able to do this what is it about your particular and I feel it's so personal to this people ultimately and so I'm just going to have one of the funders try to answer that question and perhaps try to ask the question of what is it that makes the work that you're all doing I think that my answer is that we have relationships so bond together with those people in your communities whether it be a big or small town and the people that you trust already you build those relationships up that's what got us in the room the relationships that we already had and that we knew that we could find more and more support at this team coalition as we come together so that's my we're going to keep passing you know I think I can't answer the question of whether I agree with you that it's very different depending on where you are Minnesota has a really large film-profit community some places have I know a lot of folks in the south the plant the communities are very small it's very different so there is that difference going on but nationally you know I think all of us here are involved in trying to leverage and you know do this work on a national level not just on a regional level but on a regional level and I have to duck out I'm really honored to be here thank you all for inviting me thank you so much I really appreciate you being here thank you can you add something to say for Rebsky did you have discussions about shared values doing that work first what are the values that we share what are the principles that we share and how and how do those discussions come up just thinking about a lot of things that we have in common is I feel like for the five theaters color that each of us has a specific definition of what success is and what is valuable to us and I can't say any organization I've ever worked with the folks have defined that for themselves but I just will say that that's something I really appreciate and see with these five theaters is that we have this idea of success and value that is completely not centered in the mainstream at all and it feels to me that that's a really important organizing principle for how we're able to maintain and respect where each other is coming from I think each of us sees the integrity that we're working from how each of us is just intricately defining our success by our being in touch and in relationship with our community and it feels to me that that's a really important thing and I think that's a really important thing and I think that's a really important thing and I think another thing is that nobody has ever left we have had some stuff come up you know really difficult things but nobody left because we saw that the bigger purpose I don't know I just feel like you know I would love to duplicate but I think a lot of times when groups come together there is just something about that underlying I don't know principle that's common and I think we're very lucky to have that and almost wonder if the Twin Cities sort of helps to foster that kind of I don't know that kind of an artist because there's so many artists like that here and so many political movements have started here and all of those things have just been their success has been linked to is it successful for your community and I know that that's in the native community how we define things because we got nothing to lose in the native community so we're not we're not trying to be successful in an mainstream way we're defining what success is for us and our people thank you for you said no one left and I think we are continually doing shared values and some foundations have like the one I like I think that has been a thing too the relationship is constantly redefining that and holding accountable and if you're not in it then okay that's about having trust and it's also too about us having shared and having one another's facts filling that way I might say one another I mean it's foundation I think it's not just us in the room but it's really like sort of figuring out what are our foundations say that we do and we don't do and all of us are kind of like we do this now we want to come to this and I think that's sort of how all of us are there is constantly re-evaluating if we are in doing that I know on a national level GIA has been doing a lot of work around this issue and I'm wondering if as you attend GIA meetings if you are seeing more of this Dallas is upper balance and Dallas is doing a lot of lip service to the idea of cultural equity and DEI but we haven't quite gotten to the point of what you're doing as far as actually having substantive relationships with the audience of color of course we probably got more in terms of the size and the number but I'm just curious to know from a national scale whether or not you're seeing that the initiatives at GIA has been engaged in really really beginning to take hold in other communities because you know Minnesota's always been real radical so so part of our togetherness and our time sharing as RFCN to talk and RFC together we did talking about modeling and being sharing this information more and nationally we are going to together go to this year and we are doing a panel together to talk about the learnings and how we've started to create this third way of being bringing up barriers and finding new ways to have relationship with one another I've definitely seen the national GIA narrative change over time it's kind of like your organization your grant dollars and I don't think it's quite too deconstructing my supremacy with a new organization but I think it's getting close and I think that we can help push that along and it does go great to be an alluding group of people that have been doing that work and we really think that's part of our role as to affect other funders globally and I think it's its foundation that's also individual donors individual donors can all learn sometimes to their affiliate organizations so that there's a lot of work to do and I'm hoping that GIA can focus on grant making and just this idea of giving differently this idea of giving actively and help kind of provide the thinking, the resources, the drive for people to operate differently no matter what their community is thank you grant making works no question so I really appreciate you all talking about taking money off the table and that was so interesting and I think that's always been the struggle that I found in coalition building and also I appreciate talking about building this trust which I also think of as like kind of like base building and organizing and so I'm wondering you also talked about a roadmap and this having to work so I'm curious if there's if you can share anything about like your strategies for leveraging power whether it's building cash, capital or is it policy or you know working together around organizing campaigns like what are some ideas moving forward that you talk about how to leverage power and only if it's safe and strategic to talk about it because we aren't on the internet and who would like to answer that? we're very careful in disseminating information because there's been a scope and history of an idea coming out in a conference and then next thing you know who has to implement these ideas but larger predominantly or start to be like and something like oh they're doing the program that they heard and they got the money for it and now that money is gone so to answer your question yes absolutely and all those things that you said absolutely we have very specific strategic plans and implementation plans that need resources to be able to be done so all of that we do talk a lot about values because what we found is when we are talking about each other's values we realize that the foundations have similar values than the theaters do the philanthropy side want to serve the community at one point they were the big to our theaters they were the big foundations that we couldn't talk to that they were up here even with great program officers it still felt like they're the big and we're just the little people here and when you're talking about LA that's how it started but when you hear about these foundations mission you're like oh you want to serve everybody that's what you say you want to serve the whole city right and then you say well what are your numbers who are you allocating only these organizations wow well you're not serving your mission if you were to apply for your own grant you wouldn't get it who can help you you accomplish your mission because we don't have to do that we know how to engage with our community we've been doing it for 25 years 42 years 20 years 10 years 11 years forever we know how to do that we have expertise in engaging marginalized communities so let us help you accomplish your mission because that's what they want to do there's just all these other systems that have been set up criteria all these things to keep the money somewhere and it's like friends of people on boards who are also on the boards and there's this whole system that needs to get broken down that is the challenge to accomplishing what they say in their mission so once we've figured out oh that's your mission you want to do the same thing that we want to do what's making it so difficult why is there still this disparities it's a factors disparity so once we get to that answer that's when it starts getting juicy and really interesting we just have 10 minutes left so I'll be quick thank you I wanted to actually rephrase my question I think it's more about how so a couple things now what I've encountered being young being young and small is that a lot of the bigger foundations they think they're welcome to know first they know a lot of the ideas they know a lot of theater moves but there's like a block when it seems like smaller PLC led organizations are invisible and and so even if we do meet the criteria of whatever grant program or whatever we're we're within the character limits we're not only explaining our programming and how we do but we're also having to screen pay we're here and we've been doing this work since 2000 or whenever so I just wanted to put that in space secondly how then can a small nonprofit PLC led nonprofit support or help the work that Tiktok is doing and it's kind of a two-sided thing because I think small entities such as mine and mine are increasingly to be added into the fray as well and I don't know if I should call it fray but into the mix and yeah and I realize time, resources, everything it's limited and so instead of being one more thing that the members of Tiktok have to think about or consider how can we support the work that is being done Thank you Who would like to answer that? No I couldn't be my new indicator with your eyes I don't like it when you say questions you don't have to wait one day some day for Tiktok to speak for your politics we are already speaking for your politics and I have always been so affected to us introducing ourselves as a small organization we are all big organizations all of us we have huge visions we might have less resources because these binaries with the English language tells us which becomes a part of the DNA of NEA and things like that in the policy session there's a particular there's very cool marks that say do they serve marginalised communities and my question always to these large institutions is why the hell should we have marginalised communities why can't we all be on centre stage then let us think should the opera get money is opera marginal no why there's very clear answers so yes you are not going to wait one day to be included you are already included because when we are talking we have come together and are trying to put our centre in our conversation not just for ourselves I just want to assure you of that that at present like all of us have articulated we want to create strategic specific step by step process so that whether 10 years from now, 15 years from now I don't think we all will be necessarily around the table but processes of how do we arrive and how do we engage will be put in place yes the honest perspective you know we have a new program that I mentioned before called the Unicates of the cohort 2 we have a little bit so the 40 organisations roughly half of which are founded by led by both colour indigenous communities from these serving those communities and then about half of those are half of rural as well of course so that you know the 40 organisations for this program a little bit of general operating support going to those organisations and a pool of resources that they will determine what they do with essentially and you know I was talking to Eric Tocchito and he started talking about what if we continue to flip this so that eventually the foundation is implying to work with these organisations and that you know you all kind of think about each other and your own growth and your own durability and then thriving but it was like that people love to be program officers so this is that question you know and we're thinking about who's on the radar we can't possibly know everything on the radar but in that field we can and if they can start to think about directing some of that funding in the best possible way that goes all the way through this goes directly to your question and the lady in the back would ask the question about what are the things that can happen at a micro first we've been having summits with independent artists with activists looking at creating that ground 12 of support that we are listening and we're having these listening I mean it takes time to organise these summits be assured that we're not going to be doing this in a vacuum we have in our plans and gradually we're implementing these hopefully regionally but at a different level nationally and we include voices because it's important to assume that we know what all of it yes your voice is important please be assured that we are trying to listen we have to do it very systematic and deliberate and that takes time the other thing that I wanted to address is visibility yes my theatre is a small theatre we've been around for about 27 years at 26 initially at 27 28 officially but visibility has been a challenge for us one of the things that I've countered personally is that when you look at collaborating and I know Pandia must have collaborated for many years 10 12 years now and then ticked out 4 or 5 and we're looking at 10 years but the thing is you have to be very specific on what are the bottom lines of each collaboration because it has to come around that each one of you is going to feel important at a certain point it's called like balanced equity it can't be equitable and everybody's going to be on top all the time but it's how you distribute that equity that means that you know the other person is going to be important and there will be times when they're more important than what you're doing and there are collaborations there was one in Michigan and they hired a grant one there were like 3 or 4 I think 4 or 5 organizations and after a year or two each one fell slightly because they have not talked about what was important then okay we're going to write a grant for you and we're going to be there for you and that's going to be your grant and we're going to support you but then it has to come back and they have not climbed that so one of the things that I'm saying is that small institutions can gain from other institutions by collaborating but looking at what's important because it takes time and effort and you have to see what's the give and take of any relationship so I hope that answers a little bit what you were asking we have 2 minutes left I also just want to say do not anybody say please do not put us on any sort of a pedestal this is just something that we did as people who are looking into each other's eyes and do not undervalue what you are doing and the expertise you have you are an expert at the work I've never heard that before but every single one of you has a life lived experience in the expertise that you have if you hold that in your power you can do as much as we've done as five people and I think what I know is in common here is that we all knew we were powerful and it was just time to let everyone else know we still struggle with things you know we made a theater last play made a woman musical it was probably the most important most proud thing I've ever produced in one review we didn't get any press on and we do perform today at Park Square so you know it's still a struggle but anyways that's what I just want to say it's up to you to empower yourself too and we're helping but we all need to not give our power very minute so I just want to thank all of you for being here and I want to thank our live audience thank you