 Good evening everybody. My name is David McGowan. I am the CEO here at WJCT Public Media and I'm really delighted to welcome you here this evening for our program tonight. So an important conversation and I think one of the most important things that we do in this community as an organization is convene gatherings in which we talk about all the things that we need to talk about and There are a lot. I think you'd probably agree with me on that. I'd like to take a minute to thank some folks before we get rolling and before I turn this over to Kent. First of all the city of Jacksonville's Military Affairs and Veterans Department, the Stephen A. Cohen Military Family Clinic at Centre Stone, Hope for Veterans, and our news partners WJXT. Mayor Deegan wasn't able to be here this evening, but she did ask me to read a statement on her behalf and I'm going to do that now. Thank you to everyone who joined tonight's event to celebrate the more than 80,000 veterans who call Jacksonville home. We're a proud military town where one in four of our neighbors have a direct link to a military service member or veteran. Our community takes the commitment to our military men and women seriously, military service, the code of honor that it carries and the true cost of what it means to be free are ideals that run deep in the heart of our citizens. It's an honor to recognize that part of our shared values and acknowledge every individual who has played a role in shaping it. I encourage all of our citizens to find meaningful ways to thank our veterans. It could be supporting a veteran-owned business, spending time with a veteran in your life or being a part of the Veterans Day Breakfast and Parade on Saturday. However you choose to show your appreciation, do so with gratitude for their service and sacrifice. Thank you and happy Veterans Day. And with that, I'd like to turn it over to Kent Justice, the co-anchor of News Jacks 5, 10, and 11 p.m. weeknight newscast, and yeah, we're just sneaking in there between your day job and the host of this week in Jacksonville. Thank you, Kent. Thank you, David. I appreciate that. Thank you, and I really enjoyed getting to meet many of you. I see a couple of people that I haven't got to say hi to yet, but maybe after. And it's fantastic that you are all here. And so welcome to our audience. Also welcome to our panelists. If you want to give them a round of applause, they're going to introduce themselves in just a minute. But there's a reason that each one of them are here. And really why I'm here, what I get to do is I get to represent those of you in the audience who are not veterans, who have served, but love what each one of these people represent. Commitment to our nation and our communities by serving in our military. What have given up what they chose to do. And then as a civilian, hey, how can I make sure that I am supportive of them? That I can communicate that well, all of these things. And that's part of what we're going to be getting into tonight. Absolutely. So to start, I'd like to ask each of our panelists to introduce themselves, including their military branch, dates, locations of service. And Desiree Gordon, why don't you start for us down there? Good evening, everyone. Well, my name is Desiree Gordon. I'm from Columbia, South Carolina. I'm retired Army Sergeant First Class and well, I said Army. Yeah. Thank you. I'm Lynn Geiser. I'm Army, 1993 to 2004. And I've been serving ever since through not just the military, but through the help in our military women and our veterans. Hello, everyone. I'm DeAndrea Fuller. I'm a retired Navy commander. I joined the Navy while I was still in law school. Back in 1996, I retired in 2018. And I'm also the wife of a retired Navy captain. I currently serve as the outreach director for the Stephen A. Cohen Military Family Clinic at Centerstone in Jacksonville. Hi, everyone. I'm Jason Kelleway. I've served the United States Marine Corps to Camp Lejeune. And yeah, I'm from Jacksonville, Florida. I've gotten to know some of these folks. I've read their stories. They're going to share some of their stories tonight. And it's absolutely going to be compelling. What we're going to do is we're going to set the stage with some segment from the television program After Action, hosted by Air Force Combat veteran Stacey Pearsall. After Action reveals the experiences of 21 diverse veterans from across the country. And then they have conversations about life before, during and after action. And these all provide a deeper appreciation for those who serve. So we're going to take a moment right now and we're going to watch this clip. We saw a few veterans. Twenty one is our part of that docuseries there. And probably you recognized that at the end of the row, somebody was on TV over there as one of the folks who's been interviewed there. And so we're going to hear from Desiree and Lynn and Deandre and Jason at this point. And I've got some questions for them and we didn't really work out. Did you want this one that way? So it's a little bit of a free for all on who wants to answer. But let's just let's just start here. What sets a veteran apart from those who haven't served? Lynn looks like her microphone is ready to go right there. Yes. The first thing I think of is camaraderie. When you get out of the mail before we're in the military, we're a team effort. If you get in trouble in the military, it's all push ups. Everybody does push ups or everybody does the blaming. When you get out, it's more all for one. And that's a really tough thing for us. For me, it would be the sacrifices that we make. We miss in the military. We've missed a lot of holidays, Christmases. We've missed a lot of weddings, birthdays, even like sad things, occasions like funerals, but we miss all of that stuff because we're sacrificing so much. What sets a veteran apart? I think I think the places we've been, the things we've had to do, I think the first thing that came to my mind was coming back is not normal, like the things that we've had to experience the places that we've had to go and we've done it together. And there is camaraderie. And so coming back, things are just done differently. Things are done more loosely. Things are done and it's transitioning is probably the harder part. And I think for most of us, we have to create a new normal. And sometimes that's super difficult, even now to to do that. Shipmate, see, that's how we do. So when I came back from Afghanistan, I was it was an individual augmentation, which means you don't go as part of a unit. You go individually. And when I came back, I was in the airport and I was still like I was on watch, like I was still ultra vigilant, always looking behind me, always wondering who's coming through a door. You can't sit with your back to a door because you can't be prepared for what's coming through it. And I think that that is one thing that sets us apart is the vigilance always being prepared for something to pop off no matter where you are. And I also think the camaraderie because when you're when you're a civilian, it is a me situation. But when you're on active duty, it's all about us. And we all succeed together. We all fail together. So it is different. And I felt it the most when I retired and I was no longer surrounded by my shipmates. I felt alone. I had my husband. He's my favorite shipmate. I really like the hypervigilant piece because I know when we a difference between the civilian and the military, the hypervigilance has been like we're on the go and I think maybe that shows us that we're you know, we're always wanting to do something more in the community. And maybe we do more than most people because the hypervigilance. We don't know how to slow down because we're always been high speed ahead. And in hearing some of that, what are some of the maybe common misconceptions about veterans? For me, I think that people sometimes think that something is always wrong with us, either mentally or physically, something is wrong with us, that we're not like normal, that we can't go to the service and come back normal as a normal person. And sometimes it may be true, but I think they should hear the story first and not prejudge. Common misconceptions. I think it kind of goes off of hers with the PTSD, MST that were all damaged and that we all, you know, we all because we have PTSD, we can't have weapons or and everybody is in a different thing. I have PTSD, MST, but that doesn't mean I can't fire a weapon. So there's a lot of misconception on mental health. Go ahead, Jason. Say that question one more time. I'm just asking what are some common misconceptions that that civilians would have about veterans? Yeah, I think it's kind of falls in that same vein. I think that damaged. Yeah, I mean, a lot of us have seen violence, obviously, maybe anger. What are they going to do? And it's very true. I mean, we've had to face violence and combat violence. And so, but I think many of us are still willing to do that. You know what I mean? I mean, we're not far from our own soil and our own things. I mean, if you look at what's happening in our world, I think that many of us are still or probably all of us are still willing to protect our own country on our own soil. And so I think we've got a real real misconception on most of that, you know. And do you guys need to share my you want to try yours again? And I'll say I agree with all three and I'll say something different. I I feel that people assume that a veteran is a a gung-ho, you know, ultra patriotic family history of service. And I'll say that wasn't me. I didn't have a family history of service. I wasn't particularly gung-ho, patriotic. I was always like, fight the machine, you know. And and then I I I grew up and when I was in law school, I I don't know, something clicked. And I thought, why don't I I became a lawyer to help. And I thought, why not help the people who are out there risking their lives to help me? And try to work within the system to create change. And I feel that in a small way, I was able to do that. But we all aren't aren't like that. Or we don't all join because we're broke and it was our only option. I have many options. I went to law school on scholarship, but I joined because I felt it was the right thing to do to help others. And that's why I did it. And I love hearing some of that just even about the family history. So again, I'm I'm sitting in the place of all of us who are civilians who didn't have the experience serving that you've had. But Grandpa Justice was in the Army Air Corps. My dad wasn't. But boy, so it's only that one person in the family that you get a little understanding of, and we're all individuals. So you might have, sir, you might have both been in the Navy or the Army, but you had different experiences, I'm sure, because you're different people for each of us. Really important, I think, to just be open to. Hey, I want to hear about your experience and who you are. And so that kind of leads me to that next question. Lynn, why don't you start here? What would you like people to know about you as a veteran? That's a long history. Yeah. For a serving, when we first get in, or what's the question again? You're a veteran. What would you like people to know about you? Well, to describe me, let's just start with that. I'm very persistent and dedicated, and I've used my experience and my education as a master's, a marriage and family and experience to help our sisters. But as a person itself, I would say in general, I joined the military for two reasons, because I wanted to get away from my family. And two, I didn't understand why my world war two father grandfather would sit there strangely and not understand why he's staring out, you know, out the window and my grandma and grandpa would not sleep together. I mean, not to be personal. But so I didn't understand why his anger was so much and he hated the VA. So I really wanted to see and I guess I got to see that opportunity why he disliked the VA for a reason. Who else? I'm going to ask each of you. So you just prep your answer, right? Well, does it right? OK. Well, a little bit about me is I'm glad I serve because I'm still able to serve. I currently teach as an adjunct at Middler Technical College and I'm able to serve my students. A lot of times I'm able to share my military experiences with them. And that is something that they normally wouldn't get because they don't always have a professor that is a veteran that can share those different experiences. So they're always interested in hearing something that I have to say about the military. And it just makes learning a little more interesting. And I can add that to the class. I also teach. I teach international humanitarian law for the Red Cross, which is the law of armed conflict or the law of war. And I I teach it to civilians because I find it very important for them to understand the military experience, not from the perspective of of my perspective, though, I talk about my experience. But I want them to understand it from the from the concept of that they are civilians during a period of armed conflict and they need to understand what's happening in the world. So it's like a civics lesson on steroids as I talk about the system and how it works and in their role as civilians during periods of armed conflict. And as a veteran, I want them to understand what we do so that when they turn on the news and they see something, they can understand the rules that we have to follow. A lot of times civilians will think, Oh, why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? Well, you don't understand the rules or why did you do that? Well, here are the rules and here's how they play out. And you need to understand this. We all need to understand this as civilians or people who served in the military. We need to understand the rules and how they work for us and for the other side, because if we don't understand how things are done, we'll never really understand how we can fix it or how we can be a part of it. Thank you. You give that red microphone a chance. Yeah, I'm going to give it a chance. I think we're back. I would hope when I look back on my life and a lot of people say you can just if everyone showed up to your funeral, what would you want them to know about you is that I loved and cared for people and that I'm still serving outside of the uniform? That hasn't changed. Though I went through some tough times finding myself after service that my soul mission is to impact my community, you know, other veterans, however I can possible. So I would want them to know that. And Jason, maybe we'll stay here with you because you and I visited a little bit before doing the work on the panel here. One of the questions that we had was, hey, and I want to hear from the rest of the panel also. But why do some veterans seem reluctant to talk about their service with non veterans? And I experienced that. I mentioned my grandfather, boy, we never heard about what happened for him flying into V-24 in World War Two until much later in life. And then my father was like, I never heard him talk about that. Well, whatever that experience for a veteran, sometimes it seems veterans are reluctant to talk about what they experienced. And you just implied something there that after your service, there are some troubled times for you, right? Yeah, I think one is, is will they understand? Will they get it? Can I communicate effectively? And do I even understand all that happened and what we've gone through for them to understand? I don't think it's a lack of isolating to go. Oh, I don't want to talk to you about that. But I think it's more of of trying to bridge the gap in language. I mean, military, you talk a different language. You have experienced things that no civilian should have to to. I mean, that's the reason we went is so that you don't have to, you know what I mean? And so I think that and I think that the second part of that would be I think there are many of us that have enough humility and enough honor to not try to glorify things and make it about us. I think that's a bigger part of it. It's not about us and it's not about making this this war story. And so again, I think we did it so that others don't have to or children, our families, our community that didn't have to. So I know for me, that's that's the bigger part of it. It's it's I want to talk about them more than I want to talk about me, you know, and what they're going through and how I can help them. Anyone else on the panel, is it that sometimes feels like that civilian wants to hear the big story? Um, I feel that one, I don't think they will will get it. I don't think they get it. It's one of those things you have to be there to understand, which is why I teach so that I can help people understand. But I also feel that not everyone is happy with their service, not everyone is proud of everything they did. There's this thing called moral injury that we deal with where we think about the things that we did and we may not always be happy. I never had an issue until I retired and I wasn't surrounded by my shipmates because when you're surrounded by other military and you're like, man, I don't know about that. You know, oh, it's great. This is awesome. You're like, oh, I guess it is. OK. And then when they're away, you're like, I don't think that was awesome. I don't like I don't I don't feel like that was awesome at all. Why are we cheering? I don't get it. And then I had to realize that I was suffering from my own trauma, my own depression from what I had done or experienced or had to be a part of. And that's actually one reason I work for the Coen Clinic at Centerstone because I get it and I want other veterans to get the help that I received and let them know that it's OK. And I talked to them about I've experienced this. We did targeting in my office and yeah, we want to make sure everything's legal, but it's still human lives. And it's not OK because you've been raised to think that you should never hurt someone. But then you're trained that you can hurt them if they're on the other side. But objectively, that sounds OK. But when you when you've been raised to believe that you shouldn't hurt anyone, it feels like it's not OK. And I had to be comfortable thinking that's not OK. Even if it's legal, it's not OK. And it's OK to go talk to someone and and say I don't feel like it's OK. But when you're talking to a civilian, you're just like, awesome, you served and you're like. Thank you. Thank you. Because I can't even go there with you right now. I would like I saw a lot of nodding heads over there. I was just John Rose sharing. I would like to add on what Jason was saying. Sometimes they just don't get it. They don't understand the experiences. They don't understand our lingual. And so sometimes we'll get judged for things because they'll tell us, well, I never would have done that. Well, that's why you didn't. And maybe that's why I did, you know, I'm happy to serve. I'm happy for the sacrifices that I made because it's allowed me to like grow as a person. I'm still growing as a veteran, but I'm just happy I serve. It was like it was a privilege and it was an honor. So they'll never get it. What was the question again? You could even talk without a question right there, probably. But the question was, why are some veterans reluctant to share their stories with non veterans and maybe add to this? How can communication be improved with non veterans? Well, with my experience and the experience I have with other sisters, because I work a lot with these sisters, it's many different avenues, but I'll pick three different avenues. One, because even when we're in the military and we're out of the military, we're sometimes as women, we're downgraded and it's not important or we're not heard or we go through a lot with the red tape. I call it red tape going through the system because at one time, you know, women, even the women served in 1960s or whatever beyond that, we still there's a lot of work to be done for our military women, for medical, for mental, all those things. But as far as community wise, you know, being heard, it's great to be heard. But at the same time, if you're talking to someone that doesn't quite understand, well, hey, it was in the field and sitting in a in a. OK, I was going to say a hole, but a hole or being in the truck or whatever. It's like not the same experience like, oh, we're sitting in the truck. Well, that was comfort. I mean, I mean, that's like almost like talking to the Air Force and the Army. We're sitting in the in a hotel or you're sitting in a hole. So, I mean, there's a difference. But for civilian wise, it's more like you say, most of it's not the same language. But we're already dealing with a lot of the stuff that we're coming out of the military. And like she says, we're not maybe not ready to be heard, but we want to be heard at the same time. But to under somebody to understand us is a little bit different. Our military women add that to the table. You got the mental health, you got the sexual assault and, you know, being able to they have to overcome that piece to be able to be out in the community for us to be, you know, be comfortable with the civilians. And I don't mean mean in a mean in a bad way, but we have to be comfortable with ourselves first before we can, you know, become before the community, we educate the community. And, Glenn, you're you're really kind of talking about that a little bit. But for the rest of you as well, do you ever feel overlooked as a veteran? I'm going to go off of that one right now. I thought you might. Actually, it concerns Veterans Day. These are the drive and the edge of the experience that I've had. And this is the reason I moved to Florida for a reason. God said I'm here for a reason until I got here and said, oh, my God, what did I get myself into? Because I'm from Wisconsin. So. It's different here. It is. It is. But what, you know, what I found out is the women, women veterans, I went to a women conference and this is what started at all is I went to a women conference and I guess I expected a lot. Wisconsin had a lot and I don't know if we're smaller or what we were, but I didn't find the women that needed the help. It was the volunteers or it was it was the VA or whatever. But it wasn't the one. So my drive was to find these women and to educate them and community. And that's where I kind of started the peer to peer, because I wasn't getting women to connect. I wasn't finding the women. They would isolate the suicide. And so the Veterans Day came around in Wisconsin for many years. And I was the honor guard. I was wearing my uniform. And like somebody said, they had their hat on. I still was giving the bill every time for two years straight. I was given a bill and saying, I'm looking at her and I'm going, here's my ID. I'm a veteran, too. And I've even though right right around Veterans Day, and it, you know, like kind of twins a little bit. But around Veterans Day, I had a standing next to a male veteran and he was an uniform I was and they would shake the male's hand. And I said, well, thank you. And he walked away like he was embarrassed. And I was like, to us, to me, that felt like a disgrace. Like I wasn't heard or are you not comfortable with me? So there's a lot of pieces to that. And there's we can go on forever for that. But that is where I come from for that. Thank you. Who else you ever feel overlooked as a veteran? I don't think I'm pretty. I'm I am pretty. That's true. I am. That is true. I'm pretty outspoken. So I was trying to come up with a nice way to say outspoken. And so I I don't look for someone to honor me for what I do because I do it because I think it's the right thing to do. But I would be offended if someone thought I was in the rear with the gear when I'm being bombed. And it is not fun to be bombed. Maybe I've been bombed. Yeah, not fun. And but if you say something like that, then they feel very uncomfortable because they've made a judgment about you. What what I experienced actually on active duty was people not saluting me because they didn't know I was an officer. Because I'm a black female and I'm five one. So I couldn't be an officer too short or I'm too, you know, black. And there's no way I could be an officer. And for me, that was the most offensive because the salute is a show of respect from both sides. From the enlisted recognizing an officer from the officer, recognizing and respecting that person. And I wasn't getting that respect. But so at this point, after 20 years, I just sit back and watch, I sit back and listen. And I I remember my husband was wearing one of my shirts, my military shirts, and they thanked him for his service. And he said, it's hers. Mic drop. Yeah, it's interesting. So the question is about overlooked. And let me just interject this. Is is there a certain way a veteran looks? Jason, do you look like a veteran? The Andrea, apparently you don't look like a veteran. Is there a certain way a veteran looks? Or is that part of the misconception? We we do have a look. I've been told, well, I mean, I do it myself as well. But I don't know, there is a look. I don't know if it's about having a seriousness about our face demeanor. Maybe it's the way we walk or the way we talk. And sometimes a little hat will give away, you know, or the t-shirt or something like that. But I told my neighbor last week because she thinks one of the neighbors thought that she was a veteran. And I'm like, well, Tisa, you do look like one, you know, she's like, I do. She said, well, thank you. I'm like, you do. I'm like, you have the walk and you just have that demeanor about yourself. And so people will ask me. That's why I don't feel overlooked, because sometimes in conversation, people will ask me, like, are you a veteran? And it's because of the way that I talk or maybe the way I carry myself. And so that's why there's jokes between the Marines. I can always tell the Marines on the outside. Like, they're really sturdy. And then men, they usually have the haircuts when they're coming out. They've been working out a lot, right? The Marines, how have you felt overlooked? Me? Yeah. Oh, definitely. I mean, I, of course, it depends on which way I wear my hair some days. But but as far as like, because I have that subtleness in me, I'm not like really determined or, you know, so I just kind of lay back a lot. And a lot of people are like, well, you can't be. You don't have that stern voice in you. Jason, I'll give you a chance here to ever feel overlooked as a veteran. Or is there a look that a veteran is supposed to have? Yeah, I doubt there's a look that you're supposed to have. But I think there's a, you know, deseret hit it like just the way you carry yourself, the way you handle situations. Yeah, for sure. I think there could be that assumption on that. But I think it's still hard. I mean, depending on if you're wearing and super patriotic and you're constantly talking about it. I know for me, as I've gotten older, I probably care less about being looked at, to be honest with you. I try to get the job done. I'm pretty a direct action kind of guy. I want to get the job done. And I really want to just go home to be honest with you. Um, I don't try to look for the attention at all. I'd rather skirt around that and not have it. So, but what does bother me a ton is I've not heard until this point as much from our female veterans. And that bothers me a lot. I have never heard the way they felt, especially for another male veteran to make them feel that way. That bothers me a lot. I really does. So maybe a second part of that question then, what is the right way or how can you as veterans share with civilians or give them that clue or help them recognize and realize who you are, that that's part of who you are as a veteran. Well, when I was in before I came here to Florida, I was in Wisconsin. And one thing we did have a conference and one thing that kind of did a ha ha moment and was really educational is we had one, two, me and another social worker in a room of males. I mean, DAV, American legions, and we, you know, we did the history of the women and stuff like that. But then we educated them on the mental health, the sexual assault, what to say, what not to say and things like that. And there were so many arms, hands. What do you do with your, what do you do there? And it was so educational. I was like, that was a ha ha moment to bring back and to educate the community. I don't default anybody for, you know, it was for saying, you know, are you a veteran or not? But it's one of those education moments where maybe these males are were eager, eager to learn of what we need to do or what we need to change. And that really made a positive change in my life. Anybody else on that topic? Y'all want me to move on to the next topic? Yes. This is kind of the summation. So I want to hear from each of you. And Desiree, maybe you'd start for us. How would you like to be thanked for your service by civilians or throughout the community? I think in my community, or even the forum that we're doing right now, this is awesome because this and what Stacey Pearsall did with the after action gives veterans a voice. And I'm happy that the audience is here to listen to what we have to say, but more events like this in communities would be very, very helpful. And maybe if some of the organizations in the communities would have like military appreciation days or something like that, you know, just something. We're not always looking for something free. Free is extra, but you know, just something to show some appreciation because in some of the military communities, like where I live in Columbia, South Carolina, we have a lot of veterans around that Fort Jackson area. And so in communities where there are military bases, I think that if you didn't have those military people in those communities, the businesses would not thrive. So I think just to show a little appreciation for what we do in that community would be a little helpful. Thank you, Desiree. Lynn. Ashley, we just had an experience where we did, we called it the women's survivor break in the stigma and we reached out to community and our women. We actually had two, three of us, four of us tell our stories. And it was the first time for most of us to tell our stories and for, you know, like our military stories. And we had a few people community, but what we got out of it was just mainly military women that showed up. And so just again, like she mentioned, to bring in more community, and maybe it was just the education or the message that we put out was misinterpreted like, hey, it's just for military, but like you say, we tried to get the community to be involved because we can't do it without you guys. So I appreciate that. Thank you. I agree that events like this are very useful whether they're televised on the radio or just community events where folks are talking. I think teaching, like, you know, what we do, I think nonprofits contributing to nonprofits that help military. We tend to always do some sort of outreach event. Civilians, we look for civilians to participate because that's how you learn. We all know what we've been through or different variations of what we've been through. I think it's really important for civilians to understand what we do. But individually, I don't need anything. I think we're the same. Individually, I did my part and I didn't do it for someone to thank me. I did it because I felt it was the right thing to do. So if they say thank you for your service, like they say, you know, good morning or good afternoon, they didn't have to say that. They didn't have to say anything. So if they did, I always say thank you. But also thank the family. If there's a spouse or a child that had to grow up with like us dual military couple or a military parent who's always gone missing holidays and birthdays, they worked a lot to keep that family going. And I think that they really deserve the thanks for maintaining that unit and supporting the veteran. Yeah, I think, I don't think it's appreciation. I think all of us would say, I mean, whether we are appreciated or not, we would do it. I think it is the right thing to do. I think we did it for our country. We did it for the protection of our nation for the love of our nation to serve and go. I think support, I think supports it. Not that appreciation isn't welcomed. I think it is. I think it's super nice. Again, I'm a pretty forward guy and direct. So the appreciation without the action, I think that's where we're having a hard time. If you appreciate it, then you'll support it. Believe it or not, we've run out of time here, but really absolutely want you to help me thank our panel very much for being part of this tonight. Desiree Gordon, Lynn Geiser, Deandrea Fuller and Jason Kalloway. They're appreciating you right now. I certainly do too. I appreciate the conversation and listening there. Good night.